Mini 1792: Baccano! Mafia [Game Over]

[Cerberus v666]

Yo. I'm ascetic. So like, don't target me with shit, and lynch me the day before lylo for safety.

Ciao.

[Cerberus v666]

Or...not top Dwlee.

Anyways, ascetic needs to claim asap. The hated didn't need to until at l-2/3. But whatever..

[Cerberus v666]

It does say he leaves the game victorious, and if he was wrong, he leaves in defeat. So, the game should go on either way, but if he's right, scum basically get a free kill.

[Cerberus v666]

Okay, people really need to be careful about not slipping with regards to silizard. I already have a good idea of who isn't maize.

....

VOTE: Florestan

It should be obvious why.

[Cerberus v666]

Okay, people really need to be careful about not slipping with regards to silizard. I already have a good idea of who isn't maize.

....

VOTE: Florestan

It should be obvious why.

Fyi, this isn't RVS. I don't do RVS. RVS is fucking stupid and everyone who participates in it should be ashamed.

This is a deadly serious vote.

[Cerberus v666]

I didn't claim not maiza. It's equally likely that I'm Maiza, and chose to claim ascetic to lead szilard astray.

[Cerberus v666]

i didn't read it as a name mix-up.

Yeah, the name mixup isn't the problem.

[Cerberus v666]

So Cerberus am I the assasin or mafia, cause that super matters here.

It's actually irrelevant. If you're the assassin, town gets a bulletproof IC.

If you're mafia, town is closer to winning.

Bee: Nahdia picked up on what I did about Florestans post, what was the scum slip?

[Cerberus v666]

Suz. Did you or did you not understand Florestans slip?

[Cerberus v666]

If the assassin picks wrong, the target doesn't die. The assassin's public role PM says as much.

Yep.

Suz, if you understand, then explain to me how Nahdia's reaction is scummy in any way?

[Cerberus v666]

...loved is proved by attempting to lynch someone. If they lied, they get lynched when it would instead be l-1. And it doesn't mean they're not mafia.

[Cerberus v666]

Maybe I'm wrong, but....does anyone else see the clear mechanical flaw is mafia are aware of who maiza is? I understood that the pm said that, but I assumed it had to be a mistake.

It doesn't make sense for mafia to know rhe identify of maiza.

[Cerberus v666]

Cerb, I know what you're thinking and I had the same thought. We probably shouldn't discuss this though, for obvious reasons.

Yeah. Probably too late now, just let myself get irritated at the usage of that obvious weak defense.

[Cerberus v666]

Please stop talking about this. You clearly do not know what you're talking about. Go work it out with your partner, in private.

[Cerberus v666]

No, bee, you're still wrong. But whatever. Have fun being anti-town aa fuck.

[Cerberus v666]

God. This....pains me. I'll be back in like 48 hours. I can't take this level of incompetence.

Please, Nahdia, be town and don't fucking die, I won't be able to deal with this game if you're not around to temper this insanity.

[Cerberus v666]

I never thought he was szilard. Just thought he had displayed ignorance of something he MUST know as town, therefore he was not town.

Still happy with the vote, unlikely to move it this phase cause D1's suck aND it's improbable anyone will do anything I find more likely to indicate scum.

WL: the source of the problem rarely believes there is one. To be clear, I don't have any problem with you (iirc, I played with Suzune in Suikoden Mafia and I loved her, her thoughts always made sense), but your play here has been willfully ignorant/needlessly stubborn on the subject we shall not return to discussing. I'm sure you feel the same way about me, but....well..I'm right? :/

Anyways, that's all I have to say.

Pedit: mhm, what Nahdia said.

[Cerberus v666]

I wonder why people seem to be making the assumption that if flores is loved, he can't be scum.

...

[Cerberus v666]

Anyways. We *should* talk about other shit besides the flores thing. Enough has been said for people to develop independent opinions of the situation, and trust me, I will bring this up as my preferred lynch barring some amazing town play by flores(which probably won't happen, because I'm shit at D1 and I really really doubt that it's possible for him to do anything that will make me give him the benefit of the doubt, particularly considering this game is essentially a white flag variant(in that, it's 13p but only 2 mafia lynches are required for a town victory), and thus I'm inclined to think loved actually makes him more likely to be scum than town, given that without the strength of the white flag bus, white flag is innately town sided)

So, things that might be true: Probably no strongmen in this game. If there are any, then there is specific verbiage unique in the way they work/the way protectives work, such that the assassin and king are both immune to them. If there are no strongmen, eh, I don't know. Less likely to be protectives? Protectives are guaranteed, but there are less of them? They're certain to have restrictions? There aren't any cops(though there is almost certainly a cop in this setup imo, because of the flavor of the newspaper guys).

Mmm.

Idk. Just speculation. Random thoughts in my head.

[Cerberus v666]

No Fate.
Day 1 is not the day for a Katz flip.
I will let you guys dance, but trust me, I bite.

Nahdia- you are believing Flor?
I still read a slip, and then some backtracking.
I get especially squirmy indigestion with him saying he is "mod-confirmed not-slizzard". I see no reason slizzard wouldn't have some Lynch protection, since being 3rd party sucks.

See this? This is town.

Or, well, it's clever scum faking a townslip.

But yeah. I don't know camntsuki, I didn't even care about the slot until you kept harping on about them, and made me pull up their 4 post ISO, but...this is what jumps out at me.

[Cerberus v666]

HEY WEVE TALKED A LOT ABOUT A LOT OF THINGS IN THE PAST TWO APGES CERBERUS CARE TO SHARE

The last two pages were noise and nonsense, mainly.

pedit: Also, you're welcome aristo. How have you been? I can't remember the last time we played a game together, i think we have like just one together in the past? Meh. Probably doesn't matter, I don't consciously try to think about meta, so whatever.

[Cerberus v666]

HEY WEVE TALKED A LOT ABOUT A LOT OF THINGS IN THE PAST TWO APGES CERBERUS CARE TO SHARE

The last two pages were noise and nonsense, mainly.

pedit: Also, you're welcome aristo. How have you been? I can't remember the last time we played a game together, i think we have like just one together in the past? Meh. Probably doesn't matter, I don't consciously try to think about meta, so whatever.

I believe it was Inorganic Chemistry. Fun times!
Also, I've been well, you?

I like your Camntsuki townread.
Do you have any other developing reads to share at this time?

Hmm. I've been well enough. Ah, other reads. Not so much? I want to believe I'm right about Flores, and if that's the case, then Nahdia gets lots of town points, but the point fate is making about how pushing flores for that potential slip is really a very simple way for scum to push an easy mislynch is absolutely correct, and that gives me pause. I'm hopeful that she's town...but I have no reason to be certain.

Other than that, the other interactions didn't really sink in. I read it, didn't see a point to most of what people were saying, and it all got filed under null for all of them.

White Light is interesting? For obvious reasons.

Really, I need to see a lot more. I'm impressed that I'm even able to say this much to you.

[Cerberus v666]

HEY WEVE TALKED A LOT ABOUT A LOT OF THINGS IN THE PAST TWO APGES CERBERUS CARE TO SHARE

The last two pages were noise and nonsense, mainly.

pedit: Also, you're welcome aristo. How have you been? I can't remember the last time we played a game together, i think we have like just one together in the past? Meh. Probably doesn't matter, I don't consciously try to think about meta, so whatever.

I believe it was Inorganic Chemistry. Fun times!
Also, I've been well, you?

I like your Camntsuki townread.
Do you have any other developing reads to share at this time?

Hmm. I've been well enough. Ah, other reads. Not so much? I want to believe I'm right about Flores, and if that's the case, then Nahdia gets lots of town points, but the point fate is making about how pushing flores for that potential slip is really a very simple way for scum to push an easy mislynch is absolutely correct, and that gives me pause. I'm hopeful that she's town...but I have no reason to be certain.

Other than that, the other interactions didn't really sink in. I read it, didn't see a point to most of what people were saying, and it all got filed under null for all of them.

White Light is interesting? For obvious reasons.

Really, I need to see a lot more. I'm impressed that I'm even able to say this much to you.

Are you really playing both the "flores is scum yea" and the "but damn what an easy mislynch" angles?

Yes. Its a mistake scum could make, but it's also quite easily a misunderstanding scum could capitalize on to push a blameless mislynch.

Why is my consideration of all the possibilities so surprising?

[Cerberus v666]

*sigh* and we're back to people displaying a remarkable lack of comprehension. Go reread my posts, and tell me what you've learned.

[Cerberus v666]

The mod made a mistake and didn't include the name of Maize in my PM but I should've known who it is and I know now.

The Daily Days confirms a reporting error: We failed to include Maiza's identity in Florestan's role PM, though it was intended to be included. A correction was issued on May 8th at approximately 8:30 EST.

...

*sigh*

UNVOTE:

You realize, flores, that you *should* be getting lynched right now? I want to point out to everyone, that the thing I jumped down his throat for as an indication that he didn't KNOW who maiza was, was INDEED proof that he didn't know who Maiza was.

...

He then attempts to discredit me and attack my slot, EVEN THOUGH I WAS RIGHT IN MY REASON FOR SUSPECTING HIM.

Anyways, yes, what WL said. Once we have a scum flip, WL will be confirmed town. Until then, he's extremely likely to be town in my opinion.

Now, to answer flores' questions: I'm less experienced than a lot of people here, i think? I have 11 completed games on site, iirc, and a dozen or so off site. However, nearly all my games have been large themes, in which I have survived until fairly late game, so each of those games represents more experience than your average game. I believe I'm quite good at this game, overall, though I am terrible at early game (generally), because my approach is largely based on analyzing play for contradictions/presence of knowledge a town slot shouldn't have, and there simply isn't much to go off of in the early game.

Regarding my comment about people assuming scum can't have a loved modifier: Everyone who commented on your modifier noted that it meant you couldn't be the assassin, and wrote off your early slip as a result. This means they were one of two things: 1) That scum definitely know who Maiza is, therefore your slip was at best proof that you were Szilard, or 2) That being loved meant you could not be scum, because if someone believes that scum may not know who Maiza is, they would accept the possibility that you were scum in spite of your modifier. The fact that they didn't, indicates a belief, perhaps subconsciously, that said modifier was confirmation that you could not be scum.

[Cerberus v666]

The mod made a mistake and didn't include the name of Maize in my PM but I should've known who it is and I know now.

The Daily Days confirms a reporting error: We failed to include Maiza's identity in Florestan's role PM, though it was intended to be included. A correction was issued on May 8th at approximately 8:30 EST.

...

*sigh*

UNVOTE:

You realize, flores, that you *should* be getting lynched right now? I want to point out to everyone, that the thing I jumped down his throat for as an indication that he didn't KNOW who maiza was, was INDEED proof that he didn't know who Maiza was.

...

He then attempts to discredit me and attack my slot, EVEN THOUGH I WAS RIGHT IN MY REASON FOR SUSPECTING HIM.

Anyways, yes, what WL said. Once we have a scum flip,

FLORES

will be confirmed town. Until then, he's extremely likely to be town in my opinion.

Now, to answer flores' questions: I'm less experienced than a lot of people here, i think? I have 11 completed games on site, iirc, and a dozen or so off site. However, nearly all my games have been large themes, in which I have survived until fairly late game, so each of those games represents more experience than your average game. I believe I'm quite good at this game, overall, though I am terrible at early game (generally), because my approach is largely based on analyzing play for contradictions/presence of knowledge a town slot shouldn't have, and there simply isn't much to go off of in the early game.

Regarding my comment about people assuming scum can't have a loved modifier: Everyone who commented on your modifier noted that it meant you couldn't be the assassin, and wrote off your early slip as a result. This means they were one of two things: 1) That scum definitely know who Maiza is, therefore your slip was at best proof that you were Szilard, or 2) That being loved meant you could not be scum, because if someone believes that scum may not know who Maiza is, they would accept the possibility that you were scum in spite of your modifier. The fact that they didn't, indicates a belief, perhaps subconsciously, that said modifier was confirmation that you could not be scum.

EBWOP.

[Cerberus v666]

L-1 47 hours from game start. :/

[Cerberus v666]

At least get camn back here. *shrug* I don't actually see any sort of case on him, but it's D1, that like...as strong of a case as you can expect.

[Cerberus v666]

Nahdia, are you Silizard?

Nah. If I was, I wouldn't claim it though. I still think he ought to hide, that's most pro-town at this point.

He can't be killed, and if we do start wagoning him he can just claim, not like it's gonna get CC'd. For now though I still think the potential of him eating a scum NK outweighs the benefit of him being out. The only benefit of him outting is one less person to try to lynch.

He can still scumhunt from the shadows.

Yep. Good thought though Thor, it is strictly superior to consider szilard as confirmed not scum, rather than anti-town.

[Cerberus v666]

I think Nahdia has explained this pretty well, but her point seems to be misunderstood.

The merit in Thors suggestion is NOT in the idea of an early claim of the assassin. That part is unnecessary, and distinctly anti-town. The value is in considering that the Assassin CAN act in a pro-town fashion, and thus shouldn't be considered an auto-lynch, but rather, a free clear, the same way Maiza is.

[Cerberus v666]

I think Nahdia has explained this pretty well, but her point seems to be misunderstood.

The merit in Thors suggestion is NOT in the idea of an early claim of the assassin. That part is unnecessary, and distinctly anti-town. The value is in considering that the Assassin CAN act in a pro-town fashion, and thus shouldn't be considered an auto-lynch, but rather, a free clear, the same way Maiza is.

To expand on how this relates to Nahdias previous thoughts:

When you consider the assassin an anti-town slot which must be lynched, you view his lynch as something which frees up the town from tiptoeing around revealing who the king is. Therefore, you want to lynch him.

When you instead consider him to be a confirmed not scum slot, lynching him loses almost all merit.

Therefore, she no longer considered him a priority. She then further deduced that when he isn't a good lynch, having an unknown BP is better than an outed BP. Period.

[Cerberus v666]

I mean I do see your point here but I still think that the idea of working together has more pros than cons. Why not work together in a 2 v 3 instead of one trying to work in the shadows not focusing on the scum

If the assassin isn't an idiot, they will not claim, and will freely search for scum, secure in the knowledge that town is not going to autolynch them if they are eventually outed. As a matter of fact, it's actually even BETTER if they get put to L-1 and then claim, because it will have the same effect as an IC trigger, that is...we'll know the wagon is more suspect than it would otherwise be, without wasting the lynch.

[Cerberus v666]

Why does an outed Silizard actually give a crap about scumhunting again?

True, i suppose this comes down to individual player preference. As Szilard, I would absolutely focus on scumhunting as hard as possible, if I knew the town was willing to set up victory for me before they lynched the last scum.

[Cerberus v666]

Cerb I follow your thinking and agree with it. I am not sure it is Nadhia's though. Personally I am not sure I like that you spoke for her.

~Suz

That's understandable, but I did say exactly what she had already said/what she was clearly trying to communicate(clearly to me at least). *shrug* I do tend to answer for people when things are obvious to me though.

[Cerberus v666]

Word.

Is fate town Aristo?

[Cerberus v666]

I'm really confused by that. I just read both of you in context to one another, and I don't think Thor has said much at all about the topic you're focused on. One of his early posts said some weird thing about wanting to understand the case on Camntsuki so he could just sheep the wagon, but he hasn't said a word since, and his most recent posts are just kinda theory/mechanics talk.

What makes you suspicious?

[Cerberus v666]

Why Heuristically Alone over Camn?
Camn is a filthy liar, so there's that.

For the record, I kinda don't care if we lose because of this, because fuck fake guilties from town.

VOTE: camntsuki

[Cerberus v666]

Camn saying he's an investigative.

OOPS CATS OUTTA THE BAG NOW

WE ARE ISSAC
TOWN BAD DRIVER

ONCE DURING THE GAME, WE MAY CHOOSE TO CRASH OUR CAR INTO A PLAYER
WE WILL BE NOTIFIED IF IT IS SZILARD

LYNCH AHOY

Camn repeatedly saying that fate is confirmed szilard.

Oh you're now reduced to calling the wagon on you a petty revenge wagon?

Like we have no plans on letting a confirmed 3P live. It is a net positive for us, we get a confirmed bulletproof townie out of it.

Now that you've outted our role we outed our result HOPE YOURE HAPPY WITH THAT

I am nota threat to town

PURGE THIS WITH FIRE

ANYONE NOT VOTING THIS IN THEIR NEXT POST MIGHT AS WELL CLAIM SCUM

Untrue.

We said we would keep Sziliard alive under certain circumstances.

Fate, you are Sziliard, yes?
Are you willing to scumhunt with is or need we lynch you?

NEVER TRUST FATE HOLY SHIT

WE

DO

NOT

NEED

CONFIRMED 3P ALIVE

WHEN WE CAN GET A FREE BULLETPROOF IC FOR THE REMAINDER OF THE GAME

I live to scumhunt Aristo.

Katsuki even agrees with me on Thor

Can you talk some sense into Issac

YA BUT WHO CARES ABOUT SCUMTHOR WHEN WE CAN HAVE OUR SCUMFATE LYNCH????????????????

Anyway in all seriousness, shouldn't we like, not lynch the 3p that doesn't have any nightkills?
Also I completely buy camm's claim as town tho so that's radical.

VOTE: Aristo

Decent vote.

WE SHOULD 100% LYNCHED THE CONFIRMED SZILARD SO THAT WE CAN HAVE A BULLETPROOF IC FOR THE REMAINDER OF THE GAME

LIKE WHY IS THIS SO HARD???

MAFIA LITERALLY CAN

NOT

DISPOSE OF MAIZA AFTER FATE IS LYNCHED

We can't lynch Fate. He'll take a stab at Maiza if we try to. Why not put it off and lynch for mafia now? :T

SO LET HIM WHILE ITS STILL EARLY ENOUGH INTO THE GAME THAT HE PROBABLY WONT HIT MAIZA LMAO

WE GET TO LYNCH 3P

AND HE HAS A LOW CHANCE OF HITTING MAIZA

Fate did not flip as szilard. Camn is a dirty liar who fucked up this game for town, if he is town, for no fucking reason, and he doesn't deserve to continue to play.

[Cerberus v666]

Fuck people who fuck up my games.

[Cerberus v666]

Also, I just read Fates ISO, he never claimed to be szilard.

[Cerberus v666]

No, he said why do you want to lynch 3p over scum. He did not say he was 3p, he was responding to the statement camn had made about how he thought it was better to lynch confirmed szilard over possible scum.

Everyone needs reading comprehension lessons. Things don't mean what you want them to mean, they mean what they mean.

[Cerberus v666]

Why Heuristically Alone over Camn?
Camn is a filthy liar, so there's that.

For the record, I kinda don't care if we lose because of this, because fuck fake guilties from town.

VOTE: camntsuki

It was Fate's fault for trying to out our role!

And Fate implicitly claimed 3p. Your push is bad, and is a good place for us to start as we head out for the day to drink.

VOTE: CERBERUS

FUCK YOU DIE. Seriously. You've made me not give a fuck about this game, so good fucking job. I absolutely loathe play like yours. It's incredibly anti-town.

[Cerberus v666]

Why Heuristically Alone over Camn?
Camn is a filthy liar, so there's that.

For the record, I kinda don't care if we lose because of this, because fuck fake guilties from town.

VOTE: camntsuki

It was Fate's fault for trying to out our role!

And Fate implicitly claimed 3p. Your push is bad, and is a good place for us to start as we head out for the day to drink.

VOTE: CERBERUS

If that's scummy, then why am I doing it and not being voted?
You played pro-scum, I don't care if Fate trolled later, after his troll your proper response was 'I was just kidding, but now I'm not' instead you let it slide.

@Cerberus - if you don't care about the game, replace out. Otherwise you're playing as bad as Camn. If you do care about the game, then don't lie about it in thread for play advantage.

I refuse to replace out. Mods lives are hard enough already. I'll get over over my loathing of camn as soon as that slot is gone, and possibly a bit later if they end up surviving.

Also, I agree with everyone you have to say about their slot.

[Cerberus v666]

Camn reminds me of rc if camn is town

RC should also be lynched with fucking fire for being a terribly untrustworthy and blind player.

The comparison doesn't make camn look any better.

[Cerberus v666]

I refuse to replace out. Mods lives are hard enough already. I'll get over over my loathing of camn as soon as that slot is gone, and possibly a bit later if they end up surviving.

If you refuse to replace out then don't sell me a bill of good on outrage at someone's play.
Vote them because you think they're scum or not at all - I don't want you on this wagon otherwise.

It's amazing how little I care what you want. You would be astonished, really.

I said I agreed with everything you had said about the slot. It's a terrible idea to let it live, period. If it's scum, how stupid are we to let scum blatantly do such a thing. If it's town, how stupid are we to let blatant mislynch bait into the end game?

[Cerberus v666]

477, he says fate is confirmed 3p. The ONLY way someone is confirmed as anything is via mod confirmation.

[Cerberus v666]

Oh? Do you know what I call a conclusion one arrives at regarding someone's alignment, withour being informed of said alignment due to mod communication?

A read.

[Cerberus v666]

Oh? Do you know what I call a conclusion one arrives at regarding someone's alignment, without being informed of said alignment due to mod communication?

A read.

EBWOP.

Any read which is passed off as a guilty, or confirmed information of any sort, is a faked result.

[Cerberus v666]

Intent is a thing Nosferatu. There was a very clear intent on their part to mislead the town, and cause us to believe they had used their ability on Fate. Otherwise, why would they have claimed that ability, and why would they, after claiming it, repeatedly state that he was confirmed szilard/3p?

Yes, by the most pedantic of standards, they did not EXPLICITLY claim a guilty on Fate, but the intent was clearly there.

The fact that others may not use my definition doesn't change the fact that my definition is, indeed, accurate. It does, however, tell me that they are wrong.

@Aristo: Thor has asked you a good question. You should probably answer him.

[Cerberus v666]

477, he says fate is confirmed 3p. The ONLY way someone is confirmed as anything is via mod confirmation.

Have you never hearr the word used as rhetoric? This was a situation to do so, since Fate was doing FYCK KNIWS WHAT, essentially claiming szilard

At what point did Fate claim Szilard? I would be delighted to see this mystical post where Fate said "I am third party", or "I am Szilard".

[Cerberus v666]

It's not though.

He said two things which had even the slightest connection to being szilard.

1) He asked why people wanted to lynch a third party over scum. This was said in response to Camn telling *someone* that it was better to lynch confirmed 3p over possible scum. It isn't a statement regarding his alignment or his role, at all. It's a good fucking question to ask someone in a game where we recently saw a very strong argument why said third party should be considered a free "not scum" result, rather than an anti-town result.

2) He said something about not giving in to his ghoul nature and eating. That is CLEARLY a joke. There is no argument that can be made that he intended that be interpreted as a claim to be Szilard.

This argument, unlike the defense of camn's terrible play, goes far beyond semantics alone.

[Cerberus v666]

2) He said something about not giving in to his ghoul nature and eating. That is CLEARLY a joke. There is no argument that can be made that he intended that be interpreted as a claim to be Szilard.

This argument, unlike the defense of camn's terrible play, goes far beyond semantics alone.

SHUT THE FUCK UP ISSAC

OOPS CATS OUTTA THE BAG NOW

WE ARE ISSAC
TOWN BAD DRIVER

ONCE DURING THE GAME, WE MAY CHOOSE TO CRASH OUR CAR INTO A PLAYER
WE WILL BE NOTIFIED IF IT IS SZILARD

LYNCH AHOY

This is also pretty obviously a joke.
He literally just claimed to be the person that fate referred to him as. Exactly what happened when fate talked about refusing to eat after tsuki said it would be funny to lynch him before he had the opportunity to. These have the same progression but you reached different conclusions for essentially no reason.

Touche. I completely missed the context that turned his claim into potentially a joke. I also gave a lot more weight to the idea of fates post being a joke because be was at l-1 or so when he made it, the time the real szilard would have surely attempted to eat someone.

[Cerberus v666]

No. There are townies that just act in anti town ways. Policy lynches are just lynches for a reason other than the content of their posts. Something better if avoided.

So we can agree that the player plays in a way that hurts town when they are town, and hurts town when they are scum.
I fail to see how the idea of lynching them then doesn't pay attention to the content of their posts.
If a player is hurting my wincon, then they're a good lynch, yeah?

not exactly, I'm not saying you shouldn't policy lynch. If kaintepes was in this game, I'd be all for lynching him. My argument is they shouldn't be prioritized over an actual lynch.

What is the actual lynch you're suggesting we prioritize over camn?

[Cerberus v666]

....

I missed one post. A single, one line post. Which was followed by an investigative claim. And then followed by declarations that someone was confirmed not town.

For the record, WITH the context, I still think you played in an anti-town fashion and attempted to manipulate everyone into thinking you actually had a guilty on fate, however, without it, there was no basis for anyone to think you were joking. In short, I do not believe that you were ever acting in the best interests of town and simply thought you could get away with it because of this camn/fate meta you could use as a defense, but(and this is the effect knowing the context had) I do understand why some people aren't as convinced as me.

[Cerberus v666]

Also fuck you, "I don't like the early strategy suggestion."

If you're fucking smart you'll do exactly what I suggested, because doing otherwise places town in a position where (like with a claimed miller) you have a very easy mislynch to make in actual LYLO, on a slot which is DEFINITELY going to make it there. Maybe you guys won't lynch me, in that case the vig should shoot me at that point( assuming there is one and its not just a sk, but I have no idea how an sk balances out with the whole maiza/szilard dynamic that already exists) but either fucking way, letting an ascetic live to LYLO is idiocy of the highest degree.

[Cerberus v666]

So one town lynch and 2 town kills day one. This isn't turning out well

Yeah found the lurker scum slot. Did a quick ISO because I don't remember that Alpaca was in the game. No reads, no real content, just vague boring observations.

Readlist or die...

VOTE: Alpaca

Also is the assassin just not in yet or super slowrolling?

I think that you need to slow your roll. I know that I haven't been in the game much since the beginning but that is because this is my first game doing forum mafia on this site as well as my first one that lasts so long because my only past experiences have been with 24 hour day cycles. I am working on playing as much as I possibly can but i am still getting used to it.

Okay but do you have reads or anything to help move the game along. since you are new if you were town if you gave content you would likely just obvtown yourself and your play feels like newbscum being scared of being found out so they just shut up and make filler posts.

Also not liking Cerb in the recent pages.

The fact that nobody is looking outside the whole camn-Cerb thing is really bad. Unless both of the them are the scum this game is in a bad spot.

Agreed.

[Cerberus v666]

It's amazing how little I care what you want. You would be astonished, really.

Unvote: Camn
Vote: Cerberus

I suppose I should clear this up. I originally ignored it because partially quoting some thing I said and voting me without giving further explanation is stupid, and I do my best to avoid interacting with stupid, and even though I knew your thought process behind the vote, I didn't feel it was worth addressing at the time.

I'll do so now.

My appraisal of the value, or lack thereof, of the opinions other slots may have about me or my presence on a wagon/play overall, is

not

something unique to you. I view all unknown players as babbling, well intentioned idiots, until they've given me a reason to believe they're capable of reasoned thought. The only individuals in this game who have done so in the past are Nahdia and Aristophanes, therefore I DO NOT CARE if

any

of the rest of you want me on a particular wagon, or dislike my presence there, no matter who you may be.

You are not a special snowflake, Thor. I'm treating you the same way I'm treating everyone else, and if my disregard for your opinions bothers you, perhaps you should give me more reason to value your opinion than an isolated, though admittedly competent, bit of optimization.

[Cerberus v666]

Ok so in my opinion I think that Cerberus has only helped the game at this point and his original claim at the beginning I thought of as a town move since why would scum claim acsetic considering they could waste somebody's role on themselves potentially cancelling out a pro town move.

I also personally don't like the whole cam and fate thing but I do fully recognize that fate if he wanted to could actually have defended himself instead of just joking around so I have put that behind me and logged cam as possibly untrustworthy in the future.

And looking at just cam and cerb is probably bad but is the major event to happen day 2 which is why all the focus is there.

And I have no idea what you mean by this.

Now, could I swing to AlpacaAlpaca for the "Aw, Shucks" tell?
Absolutely. But not yet.

Alpaca, claiming ascetic ASAP is not alignment indicative. It's mandatory. I, at least, consider someone who doest claim a negative utility role such as miller or ascetic as quickly as possible to be very likely scum. Because of thaf, were I scum, I'd have to do it. That's not a good reason to townread me, but if you feel the rest of my play is, alright.

[Cerberus v666]

It's negative overall, because there are generally more town PRS than scum, so it's more likely to block a town power than a scum one. Either way, it's anti-town to not let them know about it in the hopes of getting scum to waste something on your slot. That line just leads to someone realizing you're ascetic and lynching you for not claiming it.

Others opinions may differ from my own though.

[Cerberus v666]

Since comprehending this game in any way is difficult af~
Claiming ascetic is the correct play because otherwise a possible x-shot role or just any town role might use their ability on you which would be a complete waste of that role's night action.

Yep!

[Cerberus v666]

I kinda am okay with Cerb, but I feel compelled to vote him.
Vig, if you still have shots, Alpaca might be an alright shot.
I keep forgetting Nos is in the game, and HA is just barely on my radar atm.
Gonna reread Dwlee because I only remember him discussing mechanics, which is odd for him. Also, is he top poster? Otherwise I'm worried.
Thor is dubious but alright for now.
Camntsuki should be town, as I've said from square 1.
Did I forget anyone?
If so, you should feel bad.

Compelled to vote me? Care to elaborate?

[Cerberus v666]

Also, dwlee is far from the top poster. Why is that relevant?

[Cerberus v666]

1) I need more. An isolated incident of competence isn't compelling.

2) When did I say I wasn't scumreading him? I explicitly say so more than once, iirc.

[Cerberus v666]

1. Oh, snap, sorry, didn't realize I need to continually prove that I don't drool on myself.
2. I said unvote him if you weren't - you told me to sod off, if by that you meant 'but I am scuma-reading him!' then I submit you need to work on how you express your beliefs.

No, you just need a consistent display over an extended period of time. Your inability to understand that when I comment on a demand you make that is not, in and of itself, a statement one way or another about how I feel about the slot in question, is messing with the consistent part of my expectations.

I'll spell it out for you: I'm scumreading him, but fuck you if you think I give a damn about whether or not you want me on a wagon.

Is that clear enough now?

[Cerberus v666]

I have a scummy nom for SCUM play, camn. Maybe youre the one being dense? I havent even been scummy, I am just not doing well this game.

It is a sad fact, dwlee, that an important part of being considered good at scum comes from displaying the ability to avoid overt displays of scummy behavior. This means that regardless of how scummy/not scummy your play is on the surface, people will ALWAYS be suspicious of you.

Anyways. I'm here. I'm just deliberately not involving myself much because, as has been said before, it would be good if the conversation today didn't just revolve around two slots. I'm here if anyone wants to talk about anything in particular though, the game is small enough that I'd be willing to go back and reread stuff to actually express an informed opinion, rather than telling you to fuck off like I normally do.


And yes, camn, the language is necessary. It's used very deliberately by me, to add emphasis to things. I don't ever actually mean it, but I do choose to use it within my rhetoric, and I won't refrain from using that tool so as to not offend your sensibilities.

[Cerberus v666]

hmm. fake rage, huh?

Absolutely. I barely do emotion in real life, much less in a silly internet game.

[Cerberus v666]

But to what end? Why send a false message as to your emotional state?

Because it's for emphasis. People pay more attention to posts made with cursing and such. *shrug*

[Cerberus v666]

You could always use bolding and bigger text size though that involves more effort

Oh, I do that too.

[Cerberus v666]

This seems like a pointless conversation to me. Or am I missing something here?

I think it's pointless. I think others are trying to decide if deliberately obfuscating ones emotional state, to the point of faking rage deliberately, is scummy or not.

[Cerberus v666]

I wonder if that would ever work? On the face of it, it seems like a terrible idea, just an easy way to get yourself caught, but...really...unless someone is a fruit vendor, I don't imagine anyone would waste a night action to confirm an ascetic claim.

Hmm. Might actually be a good idea?

[Cerberus v666]

Theres, uh, only 31 pages in this game. No analysis should take very long.

Camntsuki: the game is slow because you fucked over D1, and good productive town voices are no longer here as a result.

And because nobody has done anything overtly scummy except for you. *shrug*

I'll reread Dwlee and HA for you, Thor.

[Cerberus v666]

HA, when you asked the people not voting what their read on ME in particular was, what was your thought process?

VOTE: Heuristically_alone

[Cerberus v666]

It's something plotinus does. I assume he borrowed it from them.

The problem with the vca, dwlee, is that it votes were spurred off a fake guilty. IF we assume camn is town, then you need to look back and see which votes came AFTER the guilty versus which ones came before it. The ones before are valuable for vca always. The ones after are valuable IF the person voting displayed doubt/uncertainty about the truth of the guilty but still voted them.

Which, now that I think about it, makes me like aristo A LOT less. :/

[Cerberus v666]

ok thor. Can someone tell me when camn claimed the guilty? Like what post?

There was a lengthy discussion about this already, and multiple people linked and discussed the post in question.
I have little interest in that discussion much to begin with, and much less for starting it up a second time.
Your reading is making you a valid lynch just by dint of 'I can;t imagine him helping us win, even if he is town, because he doesn't care enough about the game to play it'.

are you for real. WHY DO YOU PEOPLE SAY I DONT CARE ABOUT THE GAME WHEN I AM FINDING SCUM RN

Yeah. Dwlee is clearly trying. I don't understand how you guys are sayng he isn't. Idk if he's trying cause he's town, or cause he's scum tryng to prevent his lynch, but he's doing more than 80% of the game right now.

[Cerberus v666]

@mod: VC please?

[Cerberus v666]

I just wanted to know *who* voted you, I knew you were at L-1.

[Cerberus v666]

Someone should really unvote Dwlee. :-/ Unless you guys all think that all the scum are currently on his wagon, or are ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY certain that he's scum. Leaving someone hanging at L-1 like this is pretty bad, since it means any push they might make on someone else not on the wagon could easily be responded to by a hammer...and since this game doesn't seem to give a fuck about fake guilties, I think it's safe to say scum don't have much reason to worry about becoming suspects because of such a hammer.

Like,I was just going to ask dwlee to vote HA with me, but I realized if he does, HA could totally just hammer him. :-/ And that's shitty. And it wouldn't even be super NAI, because it would JUST be survivalism if it looked like there was pressure coming his way.

[Cerberus v666]

There was nothing for me to defend. I defended against everything they had said and they just ignored me and continued to scream I was scum lol

But than why was it than when people were saying you are scum and are going to die that you didn't say this than. If the accusations were baseless than you should have refuted them when they happened not now, or maybe even counterwagon one of your accusers on the grounds of them pushing an innocent town. I just don't like how you responded to the accusations. If you did defend and they kept on pushing than you keep on defending not just say lol.

Eh. Laughing at someones bad case on you is a reasonable response. When someone is being dumb, it's way less work to be dismissive than to point out all the reasons they're being dumb. Of course, in that case you're just hoping that the rest of the game realizes why they're dumb, instead of forcing you to point it all out, and sometimes the town disappoints you, but..well. *shrug* I like telling people they're wrong, but it's a pain in the ass to outline exactly why that's the case.

Point is I don't really see it as being a big deal that he gave minimal response to the shitty wholly gut based scum reads on him.

I am actually already voting ha. lol
pedit one sec, alpaca

Oh lol, I missed that. Cool.

You really should probably claim though. Kinda weird for you not to. Are you afraid your role sounds super scummy and you'll just end up hammered for it?

[Cerberus v666]

There was nothing for me to defend. I defended against everything they had said and they just ignored me and continued to scream I was scum lol

But than why was it than when people were saying you are scum and are going to die that you didn't say this than. If the accusations were baseless than you should have refuted them when they happened not now, or maybe even counterwagon one of your accusers on the grounds of them pushing an innocent town. I just don't like how you responded to the accusations. If you did defend and they kept on pushing than you keep on defending not just say lol.

omg I just noticed that you suggested he OMGUS. Because what, town doesn't push town? wtf? That's super unreasonable. Just because someone suspects a town slot doesn't make them scummy at all, if they have cause to suspect them based on their play.

pedit: Okies. I'm going ot assume that just means lost utility if you claim, but remember, if you get lynched, the role loses ALL utility, instead of just some. Just keep it in mind. Don't get lynched without claiming and show me a flip that would have given town cause to not lynch you.

[Cerberus v666]

Really? Yucky because I dislike the fact that you happily hopped on board the gate wagon yet claim you never believed the guilty, and have yet to aftually give a reason why you were totally okay with lynching him, other than somehow believing he had outright claimed 3p? Which, iirc, happened after you had voted him? Note, that might be wrong, mobike, not double checking the time line..

Or yucky because I want people to NOT leave dwlee at l-1 if we sincerely intend to continue using the day to do other things? Or because I told dwlee that I don't want to see him get lynched while sitting on a claim that would have prevented a mislynch ? And yes, I'm pretty sure he's town at this point. Or yucky because I think everyone suggesting that he's NOT doing anything is being stupid?

Which one? That's kinda the entirety of what I've done in the last couple pages.

[Cerberus v666]

Whoa. HA is at L-1?

UNVOTE:

For safety, haven't heard from him in awhile. My vote is 100% there in spirit.

[Cerberus v666]

Why are you upset about that alpaca?

[Cerberus v666]

[Cerberus v666]

Alpaca, do you believe scum know who Maiza is?

[Cerberus v666]

So you think it would be unbalanced for there to be two slots out of 11 that are bulletproof and scum don't know about? Rather than 1/11?

[Cerberus v666]

Assume szilard always attempts to eat. 2 v 10 is the real mix. Scum needs 4 mislynches to win. If szilard succeeds, it's 2v9. Still 4 mislynches. That is the standard number of mislynches allowed in a game this small. Other games this small have bulletproof or other protectives. Your reasoning is flawed, I think.

Anyways. Camn, he's not scum. You should be able to figure out why.

[Cerberus v666]

alpaca is dumb telling not scum telling (no offense)

VOTE: Florestan
that jumping onto alpaca for "scum claiming" is awful. Almost all of the times I see people pushing scum slips it is from scum themselves.

That's exactly what I think..

<3 Alpaca, no offense.

[Cerberus v666]

Maiza's bulletproof so there's no reason to hide his identity at this point no? Even if maf don't know, they can't kill him, and I don't discount possibility that there are more uninformed townies.

This is the significance of the idea of whether or not scum already know who he is. If they do, there's no reason to hide his identify. If they don't, tonight there is a 1/6 chance(if we mislynch), getting better by the day, that they will take a shot at him.

We could take a poll regarding who is informed and who isn't?

[Cerberus v666]

Well, the point of the poll is to keep the information secret, and see who acts appropriately for their claim.

[Cerberus v666]

Yeah we need 6, right?

Plu we need Nosf and Cerbrus to take a pre-flip stance here, too.

If he's town, it's entirely because of mechanics. The *only* reason why I have any doubt on the slot is because I sincerely believe that scum do not know who maiza is, period. If I'm wrong about that, then he's fairly likely to be scum.

[Cerberus v666]

Thor, to answer your question about my belief that scum don't know who Maiza is: Any scum lynch would cause Maiza to be outed, and they may very well try to get him removed from the game earlier by "slipping" regarding his identity. There are ways to balance it and give scum cause to keep him around, but it's far too beneficial to them to be gifted a mislynch+kill for them to not take that opportunity whenever it presented itself. The only benefits I could imagine scum keeping maiza/szilard around for would be lynchproof enabling/extra kill enabling. Anything less than that and the value of having szilard hit maiza is too high in a game this small.

In addition, that fact makes me feel like scum knowledge of maiza would devalue almost entirely the whole mini game that was running within this game, and that just doesn't seem likely.

[Cerberus v666]

Cerb, you mean Scum could "accidentally slip" who Maiza is like this if they knew?

Why would you hammer him. It's better for him to guess wrong than it is for him to get hammered. Jeeze.

I think that he should have been able to figure out that it was thor.

FUCK!

Yes, I'm aware. I still maintain that it's unlikely scum would have the knowledge needed to slip with.

[Cerberus v666]

Umm, no. Because I was considering voting him(since you guys have made it fucking obvious who he is without even any chance of obfuscating it and without getting ANYONE on record regarding their knowledge of the slot) purely to make it less obvious who he was, so I'm willing to consider others may have felt the same. I feel that a display of knowledge is more likely to indicate town I this situation, than ignorance is to reveal scum.

I could be fucking wrong though. We have like days. Why aren't we talking about anything?

[Cerberus v666]

Man, idk, I'm barely in this game. I just wanted to drop my answer to thor and go back to sleep. My giveafucks dropped pretty low after the D1 fiasco, so....yeah.

[Cerberus v666]

Replace out please.

Not going to happen. Me at 0 giveafucks is 100x what you'd get out of most replacements.

[Cerberus v666]

So, can I have some people get on record here: Who actually thought Fate's post about denying their hunger or whatever was legitimately them choosing to outright claim without taking a shot at accomplishing their win condition?

I have Aristophanes who took him seriously. Who else?

[Cerberus v666]

Jesus wept.
I disagree with Dwlee's "letting him live" proposal. Obv.
If we must, I propose a Cerberus Lynch, since they are partners.

Ugh are you guys going to force me to actually play in this game?

[Cerberus v666]

Alright. 5 days. Playing some overwatch right now, but I'll work omthid as soon as I'm donem.

[Cerberus v666]

Rolecop is NAI, not using it night 1 is bad, and casts doubt on the claim. His defense of his lack of action is bad. I need to reconnect with this game and look at the reSt of his play.

[Cerberus v666]

Rolecop is NAI, not using it night 1 is bad, and casts doubt on the claim. His defense of his lack of action is bad. I need to reconnect with this game and look at the reSt of his play.

So Rolecop is NAI?
Even though you assume Scum don't know who Maiza is?
Being so adamant about this point, I figured you'd assume a scum rolecop to be likely. Why did this not even figure into your thought process?

I don't view the fact that scum don't know who maiza is to be especially relevant. Town has equal use for a rolecop in their search for the assassin .

[Cerberus v666]

I suppose.

Do you want time to catch up? Because my intent still stands.

I wouod like that, yes.

[Cerberus v666]

If staeg flips town, does that change anything there camn? You seem wedded to the me/him scum team idea.

[Cerberus v666]

Actually, to help me get back into this: can someone link me to where someone outlined the reasons for lynching staeg at this juncture?

[Cerberus v666]

Actually, to help me get back into this: can someone link me to where someone outlined the reasons for lynching staeg at this juncture?

[Cerberus v666]

You are pretty scummy all on your own

Why?

[Cerberus v666]

Actually, is there any way anyone cares enough about what I have to say for it to change anything that happens with this day phase? If not, there's no reason to waste everyone's time waiting for me to actually post analysis and stuff.

So, don't wait on my account. That's all.

[Cerberus v666]

Literally just ascetic.

[Cerberus v666]

Wait are we down to 5?

[Cerberus v666]

3 dead day and night 1, 5 dead day aND night 2, 1 scum left vs 4 townx day before lylo.

You need to lynch me and then thir gets to make a call tomorrow on who scum is.

[Cerberus v666]

Scum aren't going to kill me I'm mislynch bait at this point, and it's going to come down to those judgment tomorrow no matter who you lynch today. Granted, it's a 33% chance of winning today if you guys lynch elsewhere, but by doing so you're essentially deciding in advance that I'm town, which is a dumb risk to take.

[Cerberus v666]

Alpaca, you should ask the mod.

You should have asked the mod on D1.

[Cerberus v666]

Ah, gotcha Alpaca.

[Cerberus v666]

I'm observing dwlee, because I feel there's a decent chance alpaca sincerely did not understand his role. And because our other BP was uniquely vulnerable, and quite possibly not accounted for.

Though there is a high level of wtf if there are two town roles scum could never have removed.

[Cerberus v666]

Possibly balanced by lovers? I don't know man. :/

[Cerberus v666]

So you think town Ascetic to block one shot rolcop and one shot bodyguard doesn't seem fishy?

It's definitely weird.

[Cerberus v666]

Like, fully 1/3rd of towns powers involved kills and thus wouldn't trigger ascetic. Game was also balanced around a scum reveal of maiza, so the second BP isn't as damning as it normally would appear to be (though at this point, if we buy that, scum no longer have a way to win other than through town paranoia, and because our vigs didn't believe our role cop, we have no way of testing his claim (though scum bp is still reasonable in this game, so meh))

Hm. I actually think alpaca is probably scum after thinking about the sheer number of town kills (which were all gated, but still...) but you should still lynch me for safety today, I don't want t to make thor decide between alpaca and me tomorrow.

[Cerberus v666]

we could follow my strat and be guaranteed a win, but if you wanna try and nail it today, go ahead.

How exactly is this a guaranteed win when alpacas alignment is stil unknown, and scum can easily choose to not kill tonight?

[Cerberus v666]

I've been telling you to lynch me all day, so I have no objections.

[Cerberus v666]

A thought though, Thor: you shouldn't vote today.

Pedit: of course not. For the same reason why you shouldn't vote today.

[Cerberus v666]

(Actually, you really should have probably not spoken up at all today, but I didn't think about that until right now. People are just going to sheep you now, and you'll lose all value in analyzing their play and justifications for the choices they make.)

[Cerberus v666]

Interesting position we're in.

Lynch me. Dwlee protects nosf. Dwlee dies 100% of the time. Scum can't no kill, because you just do the same thing until they make a kill. If dwlee is scum, he has to shoot nosf at some point and out himself (though he could possibly be roleblocked, so it's not impossible for nosf to die while he's town).

Worst case scenario, game ends in a draw.

Actually. Huh. Are we seriously just playing to avoid a draw right now?

Anyways.

Lynch alpaca, dwlee protects nosf, now either dwlee or myself die.
Lynch dwlee, nosf or myself die.
Lynch nosf, dwlee or myself die.

In every scenario where someone but me dies, I'm the one who lives, most likely.

[Cerberus v666]

Ah true. So if you're scum, you just no kill tonight, then shoot someone else tomorrow.

[Cerberus v666]

Alpaca has claimed bp. And I will be alive to shoot. Therefore, scum dwlee no kills tonight. :/

[Cerberus v666]

*won't be alive*

In the scenario where you use your bodyguard on someone etc.

[Cerberus v666]

Eh, I'm pretty sure alpaca has to be scum, actually I can't fathom a world in which the town has bulletproof members equal in number to that of the scum team. That would mean all the balance of the game was based on the idea that the scum team, knowing who maiza was, would always have the opportunity to out said information to the assassin before he made his attempt. It's possible the scum team had a strongman, but the likelihood of this goes down because of their knowledge of maiza at game start (it seems unlikely that they would have been gifted with confirmation of the town bulletproof IC and given the means to remove him, as well as removing an unknown bp slot they may have accidentally wasted a shot on), and the fact that you, Thor are still alive. I can understand waiting to shoot you in case the assassin saved them the effort, but after he was gone, you should have been removed if scum had the means.

So yeaj, alpaca is scum. *shrug* that's without me even bothering to actually reread the thread. I can give actual real reads on evwryone else on the game, but considering I think lynching me isn't at all an unreasonable decision to make, I'm not going to be hustling to get such out there. I just shared the most important thought I have about the game state, the rest don't really matter.

[Cerberus v666]

Well, mine is just weak, and pure negative utility. His makes the game impossible for scum to win. *shrug*

Mine also prevents the bodyguard from being an absolute save on anyone in the game.

[Cerberus v666]

I won't be voting for anything Thor, and I already gave you my thoughts regarding Alpaca, who I also said was likely scum. That should basically answer your question.

I'm super paranoid about being wrong and forcing us into this stupid situation tomorrow where I'm alive and know who the last scum is(because it's not you) and have to spend the entire day trying to convince you of their scumminess, I'd rather leave that shit for someone else, seriously. ^^

[Cerberus v666]

So one town lynch and 2 town kills day one. This isn't turning out well

Yeah found the lurker scum slot. Did a quick ISO because I don't remember that Alpaca was in the game. No reads, no real content, just vague boring observations.

Readlist or die...

VOTE: Alpaca

Also is the assassin just not in yet or super slowrolling?

I think that you need to slow your roll. I know that I haven't been in the game much since the beginning but that is because this is my first game doing forum mafia on this site as well as my first one that lasts so long because my only past experiences have been with 24 hour day cycles. I am working on playing as much as I possibly can but i am still getting used to it.

... So eh, I ISO'd Flores and Alpaca in context of one another, and this...this sticks out to me because it doesn't make any sense.

He's used to games that have 24 hour day cycles, but being here, with longer cycles, is causing him to post less? What? That's...terrible. I came here from a site with 48h day cycles, and I spam the fuck out of games most of the time, and I always have. It's only recently that I've started slowing down my posting, and that's only because I usually pick one of the x games I'm playing to really focus on dominating conversation in, and take a more passive role in all the others.

Anyways, doesn't make sense, gonna go back to reading the ISO.

[Cerberus v666]

So one town lynch and 2 town kills day one. This isn't turning out well

Yeah found the lurker scum slot. Did a quick ISO because I don't remember that Alpaca was in the game. No reads, no real content, just vague boring observations.

Readlist or die...

VOTE: Alpaca

Also is the assassin just not in yet or super slowrolling?

I think that you need to slow your roll. I know that I haven't been in the game much since the beginning but that is because this is my first game doing forum mafia on this site as well as my first one that lasts so long because my only past experiences have been with 24 hour day cycles. I am working on playing as much as I possibly can but i am still getting used to it.

Okay but do you have reads or anything to help move the game along. since you are new if you were town if you gave content you would likely just obvtown yourself and

your play feels like newbscum being scared of being found out so they just shut up and make filler posts.

Also not liking Cerb in the recent pages. The fact that nobody is looking outside the whole camn-Cerb thing is really bad. Unless both of the them are the scum this game is in a bad spot.

Potentially coaching.

[Cerberus v666]

OK. I agree this game needs more than us and Cerb.
That said- 2 points on him:
a> is the language necessary? My virgin ears.
b> I don't think claiming ascetic up front is a scummy play. I think LINKING "I'm Ascetic" with "obv don't consider lynching me until just before LYLO" is the scummy part. We should lynch him when and where WE choose.. not where HE chooses.

That is down ftr, but I think we can table the discussion for now..

lets reset:

Nosferatu

- I WANT to sheep Staeg on this.. but looking over his ISO I don really feel much scumminess here. I don't like Hated claims, but if it's true its town right? Maybe Slizard? I think town though. So I am not feeling it for now.

Thor665

- I am townreading this slot. He is the townthor I remember from back in the day.

Cerberus v666

Discussion tabled.

Aristophanes

- Reasonably strong townread here.. although maybe its the buddying. Which I appreciate. Willing to sheep.

Florestan

- That slip up front was a compelling thing.. but things have turned up since. Probably town?

Staeg

I WANT this to be a townslot. I like the hunting. But I am POE-ing myself into a corner here with all these townreads. I could totally be getting fooled here.

POE leaves these 3 as the not-town, If I assume Cerebrustown:

AlpacaAlpaca

"aw, Shucks" in 555 is a classic tell. Otherwise mostly lurky. Again, I could totally go this way.

Dwlee99

- His ISO is SUPER THIN, and I could totally see scum here.

heuristically_alone

- Also a thin ISO.. but I get a tiny townvibe from it.

OK. Who is scum/3p? They are in here [AlpacaAlpaca, Dwlee99, Cerberus, heuristically], probably in that order, in my current opinion.

Do we have a townbloc yet? Lets run up Alpaca or Dwlee.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Dwlee99

Only person I'm not sure about in your townbloc is Nosferatu.

So, we have flores' commentary on a town slots reads list.

The only person he has doubts about in the town portion of the list is the only person who's still alive. Who knows flores? Is this more or less likely to be scum there? I'm inclined to believe a subtle move like that is laying the foundation for a potential move to lynch Nos in the future, rather than deliberately distancing themselves from their scum partner.

[Cerberus v666]

Naw man, you said "pretend to be town."

And, technically, this is what I do as town. I don't vote much at all, ESPECIALLY in as we get closer ro end game, and even less if I haven't been focusing on a game enough to develop any strong opinions. My only thought is basically pure setup spec, which isn't enough by itself for me.

[Cerberus v666]

...

Scum obviously didn't kill the role cop.

How the hell could any of you possibly think that?

The vigs had to AGREE on a target to shoot. They wouldn't have agreed on shooting one of themselves, therefore one of the two of them was the scum target. They shot Staeg.

Done.

So, whoever thr last scum is wasn't afraid of a role cop, so their role was 1) already claimed, or 2) not damning if discovered.

Unfotunately, that covers *everyone * left alive.

[Cerberus v666]

So, what, vote alpaca, you protect nos, scum has to kill either you or me (or no kill), tomorrow is thor +nos+one or cerb/dwlee, if we're wrong here?

[Cerberus v666]

Yeah....what are you talking about?

[Cerberus v666]

Yeah, the logic is reasonable, but like, super low level. *shrug*

And this, btw, is why I wanted to be lynched today.

I refuse to be the default lynch in Lylo.

[Cerberus v666]

I mean, you're welcome to look at *any* of my previous games and discern for yourself if this lack of involvement from me is standard or nonstandard, regardless of alignment. *shrug* It's quite nonstandard, and thus NAI, more a result of the camn stupidity on D1 than anything else(All you really need to do there is compare my level of interest in the game on D1, and my interest after it became obvious that town wasn't interested in lynching camn, even though he deserved to die for what he did. ^^

[Cerberus v666]

So sad, too bad.

You are going to need to get Nosferatu to vote for me then. If I get two votes on me I'm going to self hammer, because you've displayed an intent to pursue a course of action that guarantees a town loss if you're wrong about alpaca and I'm not going to just allow that to happen.

To be honest though, I think Nosferatu has to be town now for not hammering alpaca when the "town leader" has indicated rather strongly that I will be lynched in lylo 100% of the time, and he has a built in excuse to 1v1 me tomorrow because dwlee will be dead.

Thor, answer these questions, which all assume alpaca is, against all odds, town:

What do you do tomorrow if there is a no kill tonight?
What if I die in the night?
What if nos dies in the night?
What if dwlee dies in the night?

[Cerberus v666]

Yeah.

Let's look at some math here.

If you lynch outside of me/you today, and me tomorrow, 33% chance of victory.

If you lynch me today, and in a field of two tomorrow, 50% chance of winning.

Can you guess which path I support?

[Cerberus v666]

...

You don't seem to understand thor. The math I laid out holds true if it is nearly certain you will kynch me tomorrow. If it isn't, it then becomes better to lynch outside of the pool of me/you today, because we have no guaranteed mislynches planned.

Only if we are guaranteed to mislynch me is it reasonable for me to prefer this mislynch occurs today. Therefore, I need to appeal to you, since you'll be the deciding factor tomorrow.

[Cerberus v666]

Oh, so you're telling me that in the event that dwlee/nos are scum, they've already won?

[Cerberus v666]

Anyways, I suppose ths means that you do indeed need to get nos to hammer alpaca, or convince dwlee/nos/alpaca vote for me, because I'm not going to enable your foolishness.

[Cerberus v666]

Oh, I almost forgot.

VOTE: Cerberus v666

Dwlee or nos, if you're scum, enjoy your free win.

[Cerberus v666]

Meh.

VOTE: AlpacaAlpaca

Primarily because I believe that vote goes contrary to everything he's said prior to this point.

[Cerberus v666]

Well, if he wasn't town gets to lose. *shrug*

[Cerberus v666]

Claiming your actual role (which I assume you did) was a bit of a problem for you. The other problem was hopping on my wagon there. If town, since you had just gone off about how they shouldn't just rush to lynching me, voting me didn't make much sense. Neither of us should have wanted the other lynched if we were town and believed rhe other had a good chance at being town, since we'd know it was a guaranteed town loss. The main reason why I argued with Thor so much was just in case it turned out you were town. I wanted there to be at least a tiny bit of doubt in thors mind so I could at least try to get the other person, who I'd know was scum, lynched over me.

[Cerberus v666]

Like, I was frustrated enough with Thors stubbornness that I wouldn't have voted you, so just waiting for thor to swap votes to me, amd then hammering, woulda been good enough to buy you one more day at least...and then you could have no killed, to cast shade on dwlee, and also forced town to have 3 people agree to lynch you for you to get killed tomorrow, instead of you always being the default lynch.

Still, gg, the flores thing kinda sucked but I'm fairly certain he would have been lynched anyways, but it depends on what you did.

I still don't think you guys knowing who maiza was by default makes lots of sense. I'd have modified your kill somehow perhaps, where if it was used on maiza you gained an additional kill to use on the next night, or that day perhaps. So not knowing who he was wouldn't have cost you a kill, and it would have been more interesting of an interaction with that minigame, while still making the role of IC significant. Probably woulda had two more uninformed too I guess. 6 uninformed, half of which are not town, maiza, and 6 informed town. Seems like it would add some more to the minigame going on there.

Thanks for the game Jeanne and Kagami, much apprecisted.

[Cerberus v666]

Okg Nahdia guess what you have a town win now!!!!!!

[Cerberus v666]

Oh oh oh and guys I loved the lovers vig pair that had to agree on targeting. Super cool..

[Cerberus v666]

Haha.. still counts!!

I don't think I've significantly influenced any of my town wins.

All I'm good at is choking in LYLO and snatching defeat from the jaws of victory when I'm town. ^^

[Cerberus v666]

Also, cerb, I really started to town read you later in the day which is why I was arguing with thor about just straight up lynching you if alpaca flipped town.

Like I said that was like rhe only rEason why I didn't hammer alpaca back when I realized that the game was unwinnable by scum with 2 bp unless they had a strongmam, and that a strongman didn't make sense with the minigame. In the universe where he ended up as town somehow, I didn't want to just make it end up an autoloss the next day. Had to instill at least 1% doubt in thor, and I didn't manage to do that.

[Cerberus v666]

<3 much love guys, thanks for the game again. ^^

Come speak dead people, come!

[Cerberus v666]

Lol yeah. Sad face. That was indeed quite suspicious.

[Cerberus v666]

^5 Dwlee.

You made up for me ceasing to care after D1.