Mini 1808 - Yuri: the Purest Form of Love (End)

[zMuffinMan]

"whoever votes the other pair first wins", which while it's a valid strategy if you have the chance to do it, I feel it kinda takes away from the spirit of the game. I actually talked about this some with various people, and if I was to run a setup like this again, I would likely make the lynch threshold N/2 and not floor(N/2) + 1. it might make it somewhat more scum sided, but it seems like the most elegant way to do it that doesn't create any weird situations. of course I'm open to discussion on this.

Ummmm...........this creates the same problem that you just said you wanted to avoid.....first pair that votes other pair wins......
Pie?

... no, it doesn't...

the issue with the setup in its current incarnation is that with a deadline (as in this game), you can have a stalemate where both pairs vote each other and unless one pair changes their mind, it becomes a matter of who voted who first becoming the deciding factor in who wins
the issue with the setup in its current incarnation but without a deadline is that there's literally no incentive for either pair to vote the other if they have strong feelings their own pair is town
yeah, it can be resolved if players decide to manually resolve it (as happened in this game), but that won't necessarily

always

happen...

reducing the lynch threshold to half the living players circumvents the issue altogether. one pair can lynch another pair by themselves, or one from each pair can lynch a pair, and you don't get stalemates unless no one is voting at all. it also introduces an interesting dynamic with regards to what x voting y in a lylo situation actually means (if no one hammers)

the issue, of course, is that this also means scum have a much easier time getting a mislynch in lylo (though actually, i think the odds of winning are the same), but realistically, in any other game if town is voting town in lylo, they

should

be losing the game

[zMuffinMan]

How do you not notice you are repeating the prblem with the solution?
you saying the problem is that first pair votes the other pair wins.
then your proposed solution ensures that happens FASTER.
As in first pair votes other pair game auto ends. That doesn't solve issue of "Pair votes other pair and then we have to wait for deadline".

either you're confused or you don't really understand what the problem is

the problem with the current setup is the stalemate issue and how it's resolved

the suggested solution removes that issue...

Players have to lynch someone, or they risk abandoning the game. I have yet to see a single game where players abandon the game simply because they couldn't agree to things. Yes, players can be locked in a LONG stalemate, but someone will compromise. Its happened in every game without deadlines I have seen, ever.

right, so your solution is to let the game drag on until one player decides they're going to stop being stubborn? i don't see how this is a good solution; it doesn't encourage correct decision-making, it just encourages someone saying "fuck it" and giving up on the game

I think your solution favors scum too much.

i believe it's the same odds as the current incarnation, but i haven't done the maths properly...

the current incarnation literally requires the entire town to vote correctly in a lylo situation, which means the odds aren't great to begin with

[zMuffinMan]

actually current odds are 1/3 in 4p lylo if we assume scum will never self-vote and therefore the choice of self-voting your pair comes down to one out of the three townies, suggested solution odds would be 1/4? either way, this can be adjusted for pretty easily

[zMuffinMan]

so, with the suggested setup, looking at 4p LyLo as an example:

T[1], T[2]
vs
T[3], S

if we assume that any player casting the first vote in a lylo situation is equally likely:

T[3]: 50% lose (voting other pair), 50% win (voting own pair, confirming other pair) if casting the first vote
T[1]/T[2]: 50% lose (voting own pair), 50% to take it to a situation where it's 50/50, overall: 25% win, 75% loss
S: can't self vote (confirms other pair, condemns own pair), has to vote other pair - at which point town is 25% to win, 75% to lose

i believe the odds of overall winning are just under 70% overall, which doesn't make it much worse than the odds of winning in the current setup

so

yeah

unless i'm looking at it incorrectly (which i may be), i don't think the odds of the suggested solution are much worse than the odds of the current setup and it bypasses the stalemate issue

[zMuffinMan]

... no, it doesn't...

[zMuffinMan]

... no, it doesn't...

It means that scum don't have to worry about looking suspicious by jumping on people and there is a chance there is a deadline panic which could go in their favour.

and this is different to a normal lylo how?

[zMuffinMan]

ok. that doesn't really relate to anything being discussed though

[zMuffinMan]

if you could decide it randomly (i.e. no rule against proven randomness) and if everyone agreed to it (depends on whether each individual town player thinks it will give them better odds of winning than going with their own reads), sure, i guess