Mini 1813 - Overwatch Mafia! TOWN WINS

[serrapaladin]

Sup guys. I'm replacing inte.

I'll have a read.

[serrapaladin]

@Tracer: what's your main? and what was your wincon D1?

Wake's slot is town, mostly for spring's replace-out. Tracer can be town for now as well.

@DP: you scum bro?

How would people feel about lynching Vedith?

[serrapaladin]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Doctor Pepper
If this flips scum then there was scum on the Tracer counterwagon

Can you go into the reasoning beyond this thought?

If Pepper is scum, they wouldn't have wanted to lynch him. The Tracer lynch wasn't definitely going through until the end. Which meant that scum were probably pushing it to stop a DP lynch from about half way through the wagon.

This is bad.

[serrapaladin]

So I'm pretty sure low-effort DP can be either alignment.

But boys, I really really really really REALLY think Wake is town here.
Look at his faulty logics more closely. Do you know what causes the fault in his logic?

"Wake88 is town."

The fact that he's using that as a piece as his logic bridge and not being aware that it is only confirmed for him and not for everyone else makes him incredibly town. Common logical townslip.
(And yes, Wake constantly mentioning that he is town does not matter in this case. It's about his logic progresses, not about whether he is aware of him saying that he is town.)

Do you actually think wake wouldn't be capable of faking this?

[serrapaladin]

@Tracer: what's your main? and what was your wincon D1?

VOTE: Tracer

I have a vote ability that may kick in and make this a hammer

Do you want to explain this some more?

[serrapaladin]

-.-

[serrapaladin]

@Tracer: what's your main? and what was your wincon D1?

I main Reinhardt, actually.

Also my wincon has been town one since Day 1.

I'm trying to burn my 1-shot deathproof with one hell of a twist.

What you should do is disclose exactly what your ability is.

If my deathproof is used by a mafia kill I turn into a mafia traitor. Now you know why I want to get lynched today.

Yes that means I also have a mafia win condition in my role PM lol

(It's worded like there is a potential third party.)

So your wincon was town, but you just happened to have the scum wincon in your role PM?

Also, your main account is pretty relevant for my read on you at the moment, since your play works from the perspective of someone who prefers being town.

[serrapaladin]

So your wincon was town, but you just happened to have the scum wincon in your role PM?

Also, your main account is pretty relevant for my read on you at the moment, since your play works from the perspective of someone who prefers being town.

Yes. I have both win condition in my role PM, but the mafia one doesn't activate until i turn into a traitor.
Also, there would be no point in playing as my alt account if I give away my main account, right? Even if I tell you my main account we didn't play a lot enough for you to discern that anyway. (Oh by the way, I made this account before knowing that overwatch mafia is a thing.)

Knowing who your main is could help me or someone else who knows you figure out whether you would prefer to just be fixed town at the disadvantage of losing your deathproof. If you're telling the truth, and don't actively dislike scum, I would think the percentage play is to get yourself recruited.

So is avoiding meta your reason for playing an alt?

@engineer: why is dp scum? Everything there seems pretty NAI.

[serrapaladin]

you'd be lynching me.
Yes, I am hated.

Do you mean character wise?
I actually have little knowledge of the game, so if so this won't mean a lot to me.

So Random is either Jester, or trying to fake it I guess.
Would be surprised to see him fake it going by how I've seen him play in general.

Fluff wise, would this be a thing?

Seriously, only three players have more posts than the mod and one of them was basically trolling.

I'll be getting back into this one later.
The game just left me so confused with people wanting to be lynched.

"I'm so ignorant of game knowledge and really confused about what's going on."

Tracer and Wake are both town.
So let's move on.

Vedith, if you can't explain it I am at s loss of words I don't know how to take all this information and I can't just take your words for fact.

It's obvious that both are town. If you don't know why then I question your align.

What happened to your doubts about Tracer's claim yesterday? And why would you be certain enough to scumread someone else for not agreeing.

@Tracer - Keep in mind it was not a high chance of you turning traitor and scum possibly would not know that you turned.
2 scum in a 13 player game with a possible traitor is too weak for scum, there will be 3 imo.

Considering that Wakes hammer would not have had impact on Tracer then I'm happy to go here for now.

VOTE: Wake

Concerning revealing flavour, I think is a bad idea so soon. As stated the scum will easily have fake claims, I'll be surprised if not, and there's possibly certain names that effect scum/town.

What happened to obvtown-wake?

[serrapaladin]

WTF are you talking about? I'm probably more experienced, and if your play so far is an indication, also better than you.

So pls stop deflecting and justify your play thus far.

[serrapaladin]

Fine

VOTE: vedith

[serrapaladin]

What are you doing, vedith?

@wake: I was hoping to ask vedith some questions without him being wagoned, but was scumreading him from my replace in.

[serrapaladin]

So if flavor indicates anything, then Vedith will have trouble faking it.

As a town perspective, yup I won't have knowledge. However, I can easily look up other players and I wouldn't need to fake anything.
As scum, this is completely false. Again, I can look things up, I would have team mates to advise and there is also the possibility of fake characters/roles. Anything outside of that I could play ignorant to.

This gave me an early townread from him. The openness to explain what he could do as scum was pretty transparent on how he would operate under a scum mindset.

I see what you mean, but I don't see a problem with scum being honest here for towncred. The rest of his posts make me think he's scum.

[serrapaladin]

@tracer: do your ability names correspond to those in overwatch?

[serrapaladin]

I don't think vedith's progression on wake is justified by what happened in the game, no.

[serrapaladin]

Having looked at the relevant bits and the timing of things again, I think I can see why you think vedith is town. I'm not convinced, but I suppose he's not the right lynch today. In particular, I do still think the magnitude of his shift from obv-town wake to voting him isn't really supported by what you said about your role yesterday and the additional information today. It's also out of tune with 571.

UNVOTE:

[serrapaladin]

I'm not opposed to a DP lynch, but haven't seen much of an argument except "he's lurker scum". I do somewhat trust DGB's reads, but I've also seen town!DP play similarly.

Don't really have a better suggestion at the moment, though.

Also, I think this might be L-1.

[serrapaladin]

DP is still my top scum read, but I'm having 2nd thoughts about their alignment.
Too scummy to be scum sort.

Why do you think DP is scum, let alone too scummy to be scum? This feels a bit like hedging for a DP-town flip.

[serrapaladin]

Yeah, I suppose.

I think the level of activity is NAI, but it's true that what he did comment on wasn't great. A fair amount of OMGUS and discussion of the NK. Particularly, discrediting DGB as having given no info, when he was her biggest scumread, doesn't look great.

I could still see minimally engaged town only commenting on stuff relevant to them, but am pretty happy with that lynch.

@shadow: do you have any indication whether your hated modifier is permanent?

[serrapaladin]

DP? Don't think so.

[serrapaladin]

<- not scum

[serrapaladin]

Hmm, yeah. If that's the case, that's pretty much a PL the day before lylo.

I really want DP to explain the voting thing I asked him about. No one hammer him yet, please.

[serrapaladin]

Why genji more than shadow? I can sort of understand the reasoning of not wanting you around at LyLo, but shadow's "too scummy to be scum" is weird.

[serrapaladin]

also, now that you're here, wanna claim your abilities?

[serrapaladin]

I wanted ability names.

My abilities make more sense with my attack names than these do with Zayra.

This does tell us that the omnics aren't necessarily scum though.

[serrapaladin]

Well since DP has voted Genji, and Genji has claimed omnic, we should be getting confirmation of that ability with the next VC.

Also, I had a look at flavour-related stuff, and Zarya doesn't really like omnics, moreso than perhaps any other member of Overwatch, so the ability makes sense. If we get the voting confirmed, that means DP is likely actually Zarya, and then I don't think he would so obviously crumb his true role as scum in such a flavour-heavy game.

[serrapaladin]

That wasn't a response to the above, by the way.

@those that said they have a foxbird townread: why?

[serrapaladin]

Finish your catch-up first, I think.

[serrapaladin]

I think she's probably town independent of vedith's alignment.

[serrapaladin]

Ugh

[serrapaladin]

There is absolutely no way we're lynching tracer before vedith.

Either way, I don't like the DoctorPepper lynch. I think he's town.

Explain?

[serrapaladin]

Everyone has wanted to lynch DP so much the wagon on him derailed twice.

Well since DP has voted Genji, and Genji has claimed omnic, we should be getting confirmation of that ability with the next VC.

Also, I had a look at flavour-related stuff, and Zarya doesn't really like omnics, moreso than perhaps any other member of Overwatch, so the ability makes sense. If we get the voting confirmed, that means DP is likely actually Zarya, and then I don't think he would so obviously crumb his true role as scum in such a flavour-heavy game.

If it was so obviously crumbed, how come nobody really noticed it :>

I don't make a habit of going around pointing out people's crumbs :/ but I take your point:

did anyone else with flavour-knowledge pick up on DP's crumb?

@mod: vc please?

[serrapaladin]

I happen to agree, but I don't see how your reason for townreading him is valid, when there has obviously been some resistance to his lynch.

[serrapaladin]

why is xkfirgbewdsdrgs town?

[serrapaladin]

I happen to agree, but I don't see how your reason for townreading him is valid, when there has obviously been some resistance to his lynch.

The first time it was "derailed," it was in favor of Tracer's lynch, which was for mechanical reasons, and not scum reasons. So, that one doesn't even really count as a normal derailment.

The only true wagon that has formed from non-game mechanic reasons has been DP's wagon.

this is still not a reason for reading dp btw

dp is only town if the next vc makes sense

i think i want to vote shadow

[serrapaladin]

dp is only town if the next vc makes sense

Wait, what are you expecting the vote count to look like? Are you expecting to see two DoctorPepper votes on the player he's voting? Didn't Wake or Foxbird already confirm that when their vote isn't counted it still shows up in the vote count as if it does? Why would. Conditional double voter be any different. Unless the omnics are lying, Vonflare is clearly not letting the vote manipulation be used as an invest tool to find the omnics.

Yeah, fair. I didn't clock that the VC wouldn't reflect that. Why is this directed at me and not DP who was claiming to look for omnics with it?

I think my reasoning is probably still valid, in that DP wouldn't have gone for the vote in D1 that could have been on an omnic, claiming it might be the hammer.

[serrapaladin]

why is xkfirgbewdsdrgs town?

This was directed at pod by the way.

[serrapaladin]

Why is it that whenever you post I get this urge to just vote you?

I would be okay with random today. Or maybe shadow, who is sort of null-scum, but also hated.

[serrapaladin]

We've had this. I almost certainly will at some point, but not today.

[serrapaladin]

Wish I could, tbh.

[serrapaladin]

I'm trembling.

It's going to be so satisfying to lynch you when it turns out you're actually scum.

In the mean time, given we're not lynching DP, wanna comment on random or shadow?

[serrapaladin]

I don't mind a DP lynch, as there hasn't been much besides the claim that has me thinking town.

I think I prefer shadow though, as his "DP is too scummy to be scum" is pretty bad (especially if DP is town). Also with tracer-town, which I'm pretty confident in, I could see a 3-man scumteam being weakened by one of them being hated.

VOTE: shadow

[serrapaladin]

Are you sure you're not scum? Because you're acting a lot like it. I don't think we are lynching me tomorrow. If we are, it's you next.

"Too scummy to be scum" is a platitude, reflecting a lack of serious thought, and assuming town!DP, it's positioning himself for that flip.

[serrapaladin]

I meant to ask what you think about DP's Zarya claim.

There's really nothing there to comment about

What does it do? Gives you a free vote on the omnic

I'm fine with this

What about context? DP crumbed the character at game-start and soft-claimed the ability sometime D1. Omnic double-voter fits for Zarya and not really anyone else, and if scum!DP actually is Zarya, I'm not convinced he would crumb his true role.

pedit: well posts like that aren't helping :/

[serrapaladin]

Want to comment on something besides your own wagon? Because that's pretty hypocritical

[serrapaladin]

Turret is town

Therefore Shadow is town

Explain.

Deadline is today, so if you have a good reason not to lynch shadow, you should share.

I don't like the foxbird votes.

I could vote random if shadow doesn't happen.

[serrapaladin]

I'm roadhog.

VLA and phone bound until end of the week.

[serrapaladin]

Yeah so foxbird is scum.

[serrapaladin]

I might as well full-claim here. I'm roadhog, survivor and 1-shot dayvig. My alignment is third party, but my wincon is compatible with the town. The podoboq shot was mine.

[serrapaladin]

Hey Vedith, we should talk. Do you believe that I'm actually a tracker, or should I claim who you visited n1 to prove it to you?

Alternately, I could claim your role name (character). I also have that information.

This was basically a scum claim. Tracker plus flavour cop isn't really a likely town role here. Scum almost certainly have fake claims which makes me think town doesn't have a flavour cop. I was hoping to claim it as town dayvig. Playing for scum I would have insta-dayvigged vedith as I was worried he'd have a guilty on me.

Vedith and tracer are conftown here. I wanna say Genji and wake are pretty much clear, too.

Foxbird needs to justify his redirect at me. Currently I'm leaning scum on him. The widowmaker flip also says scum are flavoured somewhat as expected, so I wanna say that makes shadow and his turret town, though there could be something else going on.

[serrapaladin]

Oh actually, vedith did you say fox is guaranteed opposite align to you? If so thats p obvious.

[serrapaladin]

Yeah I'm confused by the lack of engagement. If vedith confirms fox is scum, I'll vote there.

[serrapaladin]

I could see it, but if we buy tracer's claim, with a possibility of her becoming scum, that doesn't really fully correspond to flavour, where DVa is firmly a part of Overwatch.

Genji and Hanzo have a sort of brotherly hate, but aren't really on opposite sides necessarily.

I would still lynch him on today's posts and his choice to redirect onto me, but don't think your flavour reasons are conclusive.

[serrapaladin]

Because of the third party who has a kill ability, I think it is safe to assume that the setup is 10:2:1.

I want to revisit Wake88, because his claim.... well, it surprisingly fits Reaper.
His Recall ability also makes sense as Wraith Form, and his pulse bomb also makes sense as Death Blossom.

Soldier76 is one of the best fakeclaim for Reaper, so TE should be revisited too.

Except D.Va doesn't make loads of sense as potential traitor, which means there's some flexibility in the mods interpretation. 10-2-1 is possible, but my kill is 1-shot and the town seems quite strong, so 3 scum wouldn't surprise me. I do agree that wake's role could be a reaper fake claim.

[serrapaladin]

My current guess is widow, reaper, Genji.

[serrapaladin]

VOTE: foxbird

[serrapaladin]

It's possible the remaining scum tried to kill me, but I don't see why they would do that when there's a cop alive.

I kind of still think wake's slot is town from the replace-out, but agree with the PoE list.

Fox wasn't omnic, and everyone else has claimed, which makes me question Genji's claim of being unable to vote omnics. If I'm getting things correctly, I think the play here is vote Genji to L-1 and have him self-vote. If his claim is confirmed, that means it's likely just a red herring by the mod, and probably means he's town. If that's the case I'd be leaning towards Engineer.

VOTE: Genji

[serrapaladin]

Except you were one of the lynching votes on Foxbird. And there's no other omnic.

[serrapaladin]

Wouldn't surprise me, as balancing.

The way I see it, either your "not voting omnics" thing is red herring, or you're lying. I think you should try self-hammering so we at least confirm your ability is real.

[serrapaladin]

Also Reaper is not an omnic.

[serrapaladin]

Yeah I'm unsure about the omnics thing, but you said your passive is "can't vote omnics", and there aren't any other omnics, yet you don't seem super bothered by that.

[serrapaladin]

Negative utility in what sense? There apparently are no other omnics. And now you're saying it doesn't even prevent you from voting yourself.

[serrapaladin]

Hmm, a potential thought that comes to mind is that the mod made roles for all characters that interacted in some way, and only included 13 of them. Otherwise I don't particularly see him including an omnic double voter without omnics, or your inability of voting other omnics, without there actually being other omnics.

I'm a bit worried that you didn't mention anything about your ability not working on yourself.

[serrapaladin]

Redirect seems unlikely because that makes sense as a Genji ability. Godfather is possible, but I think it's just wake here.

[serrapaladin]

Not sure why the game hasn't ended yet. The last scum not being able to kill makes the most sense. If it were 2 scum, the game would be over.

Are we sure Tracer isn't potentially some sort of delayed/godfather traitor, or that the result on her was redirected? I still think Mech is a weird ability to be alignment-changing, and if we assume the last scum is Reaper, this would fit because in lore, Reaper's human identity was in Overwatch before he died and became Reaper. Traitor/spy not being able to use the factional kill, and potentially returning innocent on invest both work as variations.

[serrapaladin]

There's also DP having posted in this thread once in the last 3 weeks, but that's probably just apathy, along with too short days.

[serrapaladin]

Nobody hammer, let everyone react to this.
I want to lynch Paladin today as it is possible that his win con does not allow him to win with the town.

Oh come on... What do you think my wincon is then? I'm not mafia, nor am I an SK. Just keep me around until we've lynched the last scum.

I think tracer as reaper makes the most sense here, both flavour-wise, and in terms of explaining why there hasn't been a kill. Redirection is possible, but I think it's more likely that ability died with Foxbird, since one of Genji's in-game abilities is a reflect.

[serrapaladin]

Why can we not win together? :/

Even if you think I'm an SK, why not just lynch me the day before LyLo or something?

[serrapaladin]

I want to lynch Paladin today as it is possible that his win con does not allow him to win with the town.

Actually... now that I think about it I should've voted paladin just to be sure

lel

Tracer not having access to the factional kill is the most likely explanation here.

There's the off-chance Vedith fake claimed cop and has since had to claim innos to avoid the 1v1, but that's not super likely since he did get third party on me, and would likely have started claiming to be roleblocked or something rather than confirm the entire game.

[serrapaladin]

Not sure where that quote came from...

[serrapaladin]

Yeah I mostly wanna hear from DP

[serrapaladin]

I'm a bit worried by tracer's agreement to be lynched. It could very much be wifom, but it's got me worried. Also potentially a town!DP wouldn't want to flake out of this game for which he obviously likes the theme.

[serrapaladin]

The double voter soft is pretty believable tbh.

[serrapaladin]

What

[serrapaladin]

Yeah I'm less than cool with replacing in and dodging. Has me worried about complicated fake claims or something.

[serrapaladin]

VOTE: maria

Maybe this helps

[serrapaladin]

So the thing about Maria being omnics double voter and Genji being unable to vote omnics is a bit weird given Genji is the only claimed omnics, and he claimed his ability doesn't work on himself. It's a bit worrying, but it might be worth getting people to l-2 and having Maria double hammer them. Not sure there's time today but this would weed out fake claims to omnics.

[serrapaladin]

UNVOTE:

[serrapaladin]

So the thing about Maria being omnics double voter and Genji being unable to vote omnics is a bit weird given Genji is the only claimed omnics, and he claimed his ability doesn't work on himself. It's a bit worrying, but it might be worth getting people to l-2 and having Maria double hammer them. Not sure there's time today but this would weed out fake claims to omnics.

so I'm pretty sure still this. I don't know Maria but could see her play thus far as bad town self voting. Last scum being omnics still works the most.

[serrapaladin]

I think tracer as reaper makes the most sense here, both flavour-wise, and in terms of explaining why there hasn't been a kill. Redirection is possible, but I think it's more likely that ability died with Foxbird, since one of Genji's in-game abilities is a reflect.

Also still this though. Not sure why vedith is saying tracer is town

[serrapaladin]

I wish you gave something more here

[serrapaladin]

VOTE: engineer

[serrapaladin]

I would be okay with trying to hammer everyone.

[serrapaladin]

Yeah I'm not omnic. Do I still need to vote tracer here?

[serrapaladin]

VOTE: tracer

[serrapaladin]

VOTE: vedith

I'm still not entirely sure why you think tracer is town, given that Genji and his deflect were still around then.

[serrapaladin]

What?

[serrapaladin]

What a shit show.

[serrapaladin]

If Maria hits the last mine over shadow, I hammer shadow for the win. Also I was investigation immune the night ved got third party on me. Still had fun though

[serrapaladin]

<3 rach

[serrapaladin]

serra, I hope you enjoyed how much fucking effort I put into those whispers I sent you. :')

They were pretty awesome. My flavour was that I was insane, so would hear voices, so I wasn't actually sure if it really was you or the mod pretending to be you. Thanks for the film rec