Mini 1801 - Undertale: Kill or Be Killed Mafia [Game Over!]

[grapes]

sup people

[grapes]

lol im sans

[grapes]

ill full claim if im L1 not sure if i am though

[grapes]

gonna read this when i get home probably about an hour or two

anything important i should know?

[grapes]

im a watcher

rory never sent in an action

[grapes]

anything important i should know?

nolynch viable

it's day 2 why would we no lynch

[grapes]

pg 1

VOTE: Creature

somebody walk me through why you haven't lynched this yet

[grapes]

Should we hunt the inactives? I bet at least 1 scum is hiding between them.

this is the easy kind of stuff i post as scum - this isn't content because it says nothing

[grapes]

No I'm reading the thread and letting the other players in the game know once I have a solid scumread.

I may or may not be skimming walls.

[grapes]

Well I'm a little late. I've got some reading to do.

this is pretty obviously a scum slot

[grapes]

That possibly implies you have a role that knows this. Softclaiming on Day 1 is not wise.

where is the paranoia friend

plus it's like why is this the only thing the guy has to comment on when he was afk a while before this

might be scum

[grapes]

gonna leave off at pg 17ish got work in the morning

in the mean time yah let's lynch creature

[grapes]

Well I'm a little late. I've got some reading to do.

this is pretty obviously a scum slot

This slot is confirmed Town. I will make it public now.

If Rory's watcher claim is not a fakeclaim, just why would he not send an action? It's obvious why if it is a fakeclaim (he can't use his fake action).

VOTE: Grapes

woke up a couple hours early gonna try and get some reading in before work but first i had to respond to this

LOL

[grapes]

when is deadline?

[grapes]

im on page 20 and it's just you guys arguing over which lurkers you'd rather policy lynch

why do i do this to myself

[grapes]

got to the clumsy claim

thenewearth looks town

creature auto-believing it's a town claim is bad and so far in still pretty down to lynch that

[grapes]

what page did that happen?

[grapes]

i feel like im not worth much to interact with if i haven't even read the game

and saturating dead thread with ancient history is something i would probably do as scum

and my vote on creature was because of a gut tingle i had page 1 how could that possibly be opportunistic lol

[grapes]

VOTE: Parama

[grapes]

lemme get a list of claims please

[grapes]

i mean if you're gonna cc me but act all unsure of yourself once im at L1 then yea you need to die pretty much

i don't even understand how you think that self watcher and watcher are similar at all except in name - they fill different functions, are played differently, one is a role i've only seen like once - and i think it's actually called a motion detector from what you're describing

[grapes]

@grapes when did i act unsure of myself about what, huh???
and it's not like that was the only basis i had for suspecting rory/you anyways i've already said as much in my iso

just not recently bcuz the slot didn't exist for most of d2 lol

Why does it feel like you totally missed the part where I said I don't think your role is called what you think it's called?

[grapes]

i made that post because i didn't like rory's claim, and a good 'ol softclaim is decent bait whether or not it ends up mattering.

and yeah. it's pretty useless, like literally every other town claim up to this point has been. except rory. somehow.

Dude a watcher in a game with thirty fruit vendors isn't that strong.

[grapes]

I really don't like the creature wagon. He just seems so IDGAF about votes, in a town way.

And also seems to not gaf who gets lynched, in a scum way.

Like why is rory his top lynch, a person not playing the game it's because he's probably scum not trying to piss anybody off who can fight back.

[grapes]

In this universe where Parama (fake?)claimed a role incompatible with Rory's watcher claim, why did they then later decide to change their claim and back off? Most people are reading Parama as town, so if they are scum and wanting to 1v1 Rory, they would likely win.

You can't see any possible scum motive in changing around a claim to avoid furthering a 1v1.

Here's a hint: what happens in a world where parama "wins" and I flip town?

[grapes]

can you guys like wagon someone so I can assess whether the case is good or not
if grapes doesn't do more shit I'll be more inclined to start going back there

lol lion you scum man?

and as for your second line you can fuck right off ive been reading the game and pushing scumreads what more do you people want.

[grapes]

well frog you'll be happy to know im actually not far out from where i replaced in

[grapes]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand done reading.

VOTE: Creature

[grapes]

Pretty sure all of tne, btd, greyice and frog are town.

I'm following parama's thought process on how he thought my slot's claim seemed off more with absolute context; and what bothered me initially when I dove into the game is that parama's tone surrounding grapes related things gave off the impression of a townread or at least not a scumread. Greyice showed me where he initially counterclaimed and my kneejerk reaction was to jump down his throat because the soft lacked a vote for rory and that stance has evidently not changed despite the conflict of tone.

But if he's scum there was a pretty well-faked realization the last few pages once we cleared the air and ironed out the miscommunications regarding our roles. And his "town can be wrong" posts did feel decently real to me so I'm gonna move on.

[grapes]

GL I'm kinda mixed on; his engagement with the game early on was alright. The clumsy push didn't feel manufactured really and i recall being on a similar wavelength with him wrt clumsy while my reread was still unspoilered (which didn't last long unfortunately).

But then his recent posts I'm kinda just wholly meh on. Like just a complete departure from day 1 where he was sternly pushing his scumreads and asking questions that seemed to provoke thought from people to just a directionless compromiser sitting in the back seat and it's a bit tough to tell if it's just because he's scum or if he's town suffering from a combination attack of the apathy that apparently punched everyone in this thread in the face and being wrong on a couple reads so far in and a bit discouraged as town. Atm I'd go nulltown to townish on him.

[grapes]

@grapes What are your thoughts on a Dunnstral lynch today?

I'd support it.

[grapes]

When I read kittenlick's posts I lke about every 10th one a good bit and hate the rest lol. I mean even just since I've been in the game there has been some iffy lapses in progression in places which I normally find forgivable because yea hey town do that all the time because they don't care (like notably parama is in her lynch pool earlier on but then she's found saying that path he carved for his claim is "illogical" which is alignment neutral first off, but is presented as a defense which reads like a bit of cogdis; mostly meh on it's own though) but it's found compliment to things like quick chirps such as "just reread greyice he might be ton" after four posts prior your literal read on greyice was "not scum with parama" which

1) Isn't a read
2) Makes me question the conviction to your scumreads in general when that's the reasoning for your preferred vote

And also leaves me uncomfortable because there's mixed vibes there; one of a person not worried about their stances appearing consistent and one of who is, if that makes sense.

quick example I didn't like 359

It's just a textbook example of a post that's inflated with softball questions to look like there's more content in it than there actually is.

Would prolly compormise lynch.

[grapes]

so yea

creature lynch is great, dunn lynch is good, kitty lynch fine

[grapes]

The squirming begins

[grapes]

Lion what is your read on kitten?

[grapes]

:/

[grapes]

Votecount 2.21

Creature (3)

- grapes, GuiltyLion, thenewearth

[L-3]

KittenLicks (2)

- GreyICE, Parama

[L-4]

frog (2)

- Dunnstral, Creature

[L-4]

Dunnstral (1)

- frog

[L-5]

GreyICE (1)

- BTD6_Maker

[L-5]

Parama (1)

- KittenLicks

[L-5]

Not Voting (0)

-

Nobody!

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline for Day 2 is Wednesday, July 20th at 9PM EST.

Mod Notes

thenewearth is V/LA indefinitely.

________________________________________


can you at least vote creature while you're still around?

[grapes]

Votecount 2.22

Creature (3)

- grapes, GuiltyLion, thenewearth

[L-3]

frog (2)

- Dunnstral, Creature

[L-4]

KittenLicks (1)

- GreyICE

[L-5]

Dunnstral (1)

- frog

[L-5]

GreyICE (1)

- BTD6_Maker

[L-5]

Parama (1)

- KittenLicks

[L-5]

BTD6_Maker (1)

- Parama

[L-5]

Not Voting (0)

-

Nobody!

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline for Day 2 is Wednesday, July 20th at 9PM EST.

Mod Notes

thenewearth is V/LA indefinitely.

________________________________________


I am also in support of having players in the game who are actually playing the game.

[grapes]

Votecount 3.3

frog (2)

- Dunnstral, Titus

[L-3]

Not Voting (6)

- grapes, GuiltyLion, Parama, thenewearth, frog, Creature

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline for Day 3 is Friday, August 5th at 9PM EST.

Mod Notes

None!

________________________________________


Hi titus!

[grapes]

I was blocked, tried to watch tne.

[grapes]

Thought frog looked pretty town but compared to newearth? Not so much. And titus by extension.

I think that's the correct lynch today.

[grapes]

And if frog's the blocker then our chances to win are pretty fucking good so well played by greyice.

Cuz that forces scum to decide whether or not to keep me alive as a question mark vs the possibility of me blowing them back and catching them at night. :3

[grapes]

what the heck, if scum have a RB, then the lovers are even more scum looolll

not following

[grapes]

I mean even if you somehow entertain the idea that they would claim mason-lovers as scum, at least mislynching frog doesn't lose us the game.

[grapes]

So you're a vig?

[grapes]

Oh a deathkeeper actually, nevermind.

pedit: yea i just reread your claim

[grapes]

Don't think town has one of those.
Plus a watcher.
Plus whatever greyice was.

[grapes]

Votecount 3.12

Titus (3)

- frog, Parama, Creature

[L-2]

frog (2)

- Titus, thenewearth

[L-3]

Not Voting (3)

- grapes, GuiltyLion, Dunnstral

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline for Day 3 is Friday, August 5th at 9PM EST.

Mod Notes

None!

________________________________________

The conclusion that it isn't balanced can't be made as readily as you think, especially not from other perspectives. If you're to be believed, then scum have a roleblocker, which would even things out, and the preponderance of fruit vendors lessens the utility of watcher anyway. If you're not to be believed, then town doesn't have a watcher and scum may or may not have other roles. Regardless of other scenarios, GreyICE's role is clearly rather 'swingy' and JaeReed's role was weak. Also keep in mind that I only get to use this ability once, and consider further that there could be two or three scum. So, whatever assumptions you make or other claims you believe, it is plausible. Think about the converse, though; with a weak role, lots of fruit vendors, a limited self-watcher, and a neutered watcher, how likely is it that town have lovers on top of that?

Well for starters my being 'neutered' has fuck all to do with whether there's lovers in the game.

Town Jailkeeper + Scum roleblocker also seems dumb and I think you're probably just the roleblocker.

[grapes]

@Grapes, What's a death keeper?

jailkeeper that kills scum

[grapes]

for the record frog should target grapes. If grapes is town, then that's a doc on the watcher. If grapes is scum, there is probably no scum RB and grapes will die.

It also blocks me but let's not worry about that.

[grapes]

And yea.

This could very well be mylo, so I do think that Lion should claim. I want all the info we have out on the table no matter how obvious this seems.

[grapes]

why the fuck did i read 'jail' instead of protect?

i need to learn to actually read things my skim skills are too low level apparently

[grapes]

what

[grapes]

yeah also tbh when I first saw the lover/mason soft thing happening between TNE and BTD6 I thought they were Dogamy and Dogaressa. The guards are super forgettable characters

[grapes]

where am i right now

[grapes]

Votecount 3.16

Titus (3)

- frog, Parama, Creature

[L-2]

frog (2)

- Titus, thenewearth

[L-3]

Not Voting (3)

- grapes, GuiltyLion, Dunnstral

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline for Day 3 is Friday, August 5th at 9PM EST.

Mod Notes

None!

________________________________________


VOTE: Frog

[grapes]

grapes what do you think about Parama claiming to have a MTT steak, and the back and forth with Titus?

i don't care about anything even remotely having to do with flavor, if the game's broken by flavor, i wouldn't care about winning or losing or shit even playing the game because that isn't mafia

the mod says and i quote in the op "scum fakeclaims may or may not have fruit vendors that come with them"

that means the steaks mean shit else except that someone sent parama steaks

parama nad titus back and forth is a lot of noise to be frank

[grapes]

For what it's worth, I find GuiltyLion's claim very believable, and it makes a lot of sense with his play up to this point. If I live through today I will be targeting grapes with my ability.

and bodyguard is a redeemable claim now

[grapes]

makes sense with guiltylion's play how?

genuinely curious

[grapes]

Right because scum love to claim at the first opportunity and wouldn't want to put it off or anything.

[grapes]

Like how frog and lion both claim some weird doc role and then townread each other once eyes start moving onto titus.

[grapes]

No we're talking about guiltylion's hesitance to claim today

[grapes]

yea, well, i haven't exactly been swimming in time to give proper attention to this

and you've all been here a lot longer than i have

[grapes]

Just a casual reminder that scum killed the only person in the game who thought my slot was town last night.

[grapes]

He did at one point at least lol

im obvtown anyway though

[grapes]

Well he was a pretty big part in why I didn't get lynched when I was at L1, is all I'm saying.

[grapes]

Votecount 4.3

Not Voting (4)

- grapes, GuiltyLion, Parama, Dunnstral

With 4 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

Deadline for Day 4 is Friday, August 12th at 9PM EST.

Mod Notes

None!

________________________________________


holy shit what is this game LOL

[grapes]

and thanks for dog shit creature grats on the win o/

[grapes]

btw guys guiltylion is pretty likely scum.

pedit - the fuck are you talking about i didn't mean literally the numbers of the slots in the game would fall together into an instant loss I meant lynching the lovers if they're town over frog would be far more catastrophic to town altogether nice try though

[grapes]

i was blocked again and i went for tne >.>

im inside the scums head at this point looks like

[grapes]

like the push on titus was scummy as fuck - it's like at first scum thought they were fucked but then realized half you tards didn't read the op and pushed based strictly on flavor

yes lion talking to you bub

[grapes]

lion that's bullshit you don't save scumreads just no

[grapes]

yes parama could also be scum but he's done far more town shit than you have

like if im scum i might considering vending to a buddy, there's an inventory that keeps track (ie proof) that those actions happened why not make them distance-y

but i see you trying to widen my sights

[grapes]

Okay so first point of order is my inventory that I received last night was two slots of Dog Residue, so I did not get a MTT Steak. Someone (Creature) needs to claim if they gave me 1 or both of those.

Next I think frog's post is outed scum basically giving up,

it doesn't sound like he genuinely believes that the lovers are scum.

I agree that Parama going off the rails is weird and I think it would be likely behavior from a partner if frog is the RBer. I'm concerned with grapes being alive but a RB flip would confirm him as town imo, and I think if he's town and we see RB flip he should watch Dunn all game as scum have to kill Dunn if Dunn's telling the truth about the town win on day 6 thing.

Dedicates a line to gamestate altering happenings. An entire paragraph to 3p spec. Puhlease.

okay so somehow I missed

that Parama is claiming to have received a steak

that basically means either Frog is town or it's Frog-Parama team.

In rereading everything with knowledge of that fact, I think

Parama actually looks a lot more town than I had initially thought.

I'm much more seriously

considering a lovers+grapes scumteam now

.

Look at how stilted his reads are. Flowing in tandem.

yeah also tbh when I first saw the lover/mason soft thing happening between TNE and BTD6 I thought they were Dogamy and Dogaressa. The guards are super forgettable characters

!!!
FLAVOR GASP

I guess I just don't see any partners for frog. I'm townreading Parama so if frog is scum with a fake fruit vendor ability then it's either Frog-Creature, which seems odd given the reason I already stated, or there's bussing happening between frog-grapes or frog-Dunnstral

Cool progression bro.

Just kidding it's fake actually how do you go from Frog is confirmed town to some wishy washy POE bullshit "don't see any buddies for frog lolz" like those are differnt levels of conviction altogether homefly

VOTE: Guiltylion

[grapes]

let's bring it home boys

[grapes]

For the record I believe frog actually did vendor a steak to guiltylion. Would not have said so otherwise, unexpected third party interference

Does this implicate grapes?

No

[grapes]

there wasn't any new knowledge that should have swayed his reads that drastically

and you notice he fucked off after i brought up that scum have fake fruit vendors for the rest of the day after that

a thing THAT YOU HAD ALREADY BROUGHT UP BEFORE

he was around for that - and is a good enough player to realize that flavor isn't AI anyway

[grapes]

okay so somehow I missed that Parama is claiming to have received a steak

that basically means either Frog is town or it's Frog-Parama team.

Right here. Which okay he wasn't calling him CT but it's two worlds where one is far more likely than the other and it's arguably worse because he's actually sorta setting you up to be the fall guy here.

[grapes]

which going by yesterday is the go to play if you're town parama

[grapes]

from my pov it's scummier that he didn't - and actually manifested a scumread on me based just on the early rabble of d4

like he claimed to BG me ffs all of a sudden creature thinks im scum - wins the game and for some reason you're conftown (you're not - but GL seems to have forgone you as an option automatically so that looks better for you like i said) and I'm his top scumread?

Like based on yesterday grapes-scum just seems like kind of a scummy angle to push i dunno

maybe im biased

[grapes]

i mean i don't rreally think it's dunn

and i think the scum that was pushing the counter wagon to frog is more apt to chill in the corner giving advice than go 10 rounds with titus

[grapes]

zzzz

[grapes]

gonna be out most of today but some things i plan to look into more are the end of day 2 - see what was going on with parama/lion/dunn around then

then go through frogs iso and lay out my thoughts as i had them during the night

[grapes]

because apparently GL claiming that he chose to not try and save confirmed town and instead the person who he's opportunistically scumreading out of nowhere today isn't enough to convince you dweebs

like that's essentially a slip in narrative but w/e ill keep the backpack on for one more lynch nbd

[grapes]

so in response to this, I didn't really grasp until my last post before the end of the day that a human scum character would be able to give out MTT steaks as a means of strengthening their fakeclaim.

You didn't "grasp" a thing that I explicitly brought up during the day. Mod confirmed info.

Then in 2315 I'm starting to come around to scum!frog again, but I doubted his partner would be committing to a bus when it seemed like Titus was turning her slot into an easy mislynch.

Yea this scenario is entirely make believe.
You realize the Titus wagon had wheels right? like i'd have to double check but she got to L1 - your reasoning here literally cannot be sincere.
And on top of that how does someone sporting a town mindset jump right into today with a "yo scum bussed"

FYI I don't bus. And I nail scum and death tunnel them on the reg you're gonna need to do better than this.

This doubt carried into the night phase, where I decided I'd feel like a total idiot if I tried to protect one of the lovers and either I guessed wrong or a town!watcher was killed, so I just went with protecting the claim that would have lost the most utility for town if it was killed.

As an aside - loving how this post is portrayed as like some sorta epic novel or something. Like "this doubt carried into the night phase" is just like a ns sherlock kinda thing anyway yea - it doesn't make sense in any world to protect me there I've been a viable mislynch all game and you've got a 50/50 shot to remove yourself from the lynchpool and save 2 confirmed town. Like there's not really a way to dance your way into making that look good for you sorry.

I think it's scummy that you were

so convinced

that frog was scum. You couldn't really justify a townread on the BTD6/Titus slot, so you just said "TNE looked town" and coasted on that as your reason for vote parking on frog.

This is also just not true?

My reasoning for townreading tne/titus is on the record long before d4 ever happened. And it was a pretty straight forward read once your wrap your head around the fact that scum wouldn't fakeclaim mason-lovers. Like the best point I happened across was them not eating a NK at that point but that's usually always meh anyway and all the other points could be chalked up to titus just being titus.

And THAT reasoning was given in the post you've gotten hung up on twice now that you're trying to sell as a scumslip - which by the way was clearly just me making a point via exaggeration.

Think it's clear what you're scanning for within posts and it isn't motivation.

[grapes]

You can also see frog buddying me by talking about my claim being 'believable', when it was in part a CC to his claimed role. If I were scum partners with frog and we decided to CC each other, then it would have been much better play to commit to a double bus.

and definitely quit it with this "frog and i were CCing each other" thing you keep shoveling because that isn't how shit went down

yall were two peas in a pod and your claims didn't bump all that much outside of both featuring protection

you also never voted frog - that's a thing you do when you're CCing somebody

[grapes]

See ya in another 24 hours once you decide to stop lurking again.

You'd have better luck trying to sell me on parama tbh.

[grapes]

so did you think it was a CC at the time when you made this post?

No. Easy to tell both of your claims made me skeptical.

[grapes]

Oh yea I was gonna reread day 2 thanks for reminding me.

[grapes]

k then

[grapes]

Votecount 2.28

KittenLicks (5)

- GreyICE, Parama, frog, GuiltyLion, thenewearth

[L-1]

frog (3)

- Dunnstral, Creature, KittenLicks

[L-3]

Creature (1)

- grapes

[L-5]

GreyICE (1)

- BTD6_Maker

[L-5]

Not Voting (0)

-

Nobody!

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Lol. You weren't joking.

I mean parama doesn't look great here either but at least he's got a KL scumread in his track record w/ at least not -horrible- reasoning (that's from memory) but I also remember being slightly on that wavelength at the time too and might've compromised the same way had I been around so, like, it's meh for both of you I think.

Though I guess scum obviously must of sparked this in response to having potential town traction on kitten; IE greyice and I - gonna look and see how lion in particular progressed there because i don't remember his vote/push being that loud.

Also pretty firmly cements dunn as not being scum with frog. (As well as creature - which makes lion justifying his night actions with reasoning like "i thought creature was scum" seem p inconsistent given how well versed in how d2 went down he apparently is.)

[grapes]

Votecount 4.5

GuiltyLion (1)

- grapes

[L-2]

Not Voting (3)

- GuiltyLion, Parama, Dunnstral

With 4 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

Deadline for Day 4 is Friday, August 12th at 9PM EST.

Mod Notes

None!

________________________________________


I think creature less so actually because shitty hammers. Might've been what he was gonna use to angle a lynch there with but that's just spitballing.

[grapes]

Votecount 2.25

Creature (3)

- grapes, GuiltyLion, thenewearth

[L-3]

frog (3)

- Dunnstral, Creature, KittenLicks

[L-3]

KittenLicks (3)

- GreyICE, Parama, frog

[L-3]

GreyICE (1)

- BTD6_Maker

[L-5]

Not Voting (0)

-

Nobody!

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

I think frog opting to go KL > creature here is interesting because frog was all about that push for a while and it makes me think he was possibly trying to keep more wagons viable and also spread out scum traction - which looks good for parama again.

Then on the same page as this VC we get a lot of movement and a KL claim. These two posts stuck out to me right away:

frog is doing the lord's work rn imo

i'd prefer KL over frog mostly based on D1 play, frog's lack of conviction for Creature and sudden pushing on KL is still kinda giving me bad vibes

Now comparetively one is obviously better than the other. I mean they're both bad on a surface level considering what's going on in this frozen moment of time that I'm focusing on here.

But parama's quip doesn't feel like an attempt at distancing or whatever - but more falls in line with what his focus was on that day, wanting kitten dead. It's immediate and relaxed and not a bad reaction to frog's point on how KL had a lot of shifting reads/wide range of scope that day (which was actually true)

Lion's post is just 100% hedging his bets. And the progression doesn't seem to stack up (which to be fair I'm reading the day in reverse so forgive me if I catch something farther back) his vote was on creature previous to this so the more appropriate thing for him to say would of been "i'd prefer KL over creature"

Or let's suppose for a minute that GL's KL vote on this page was a realization that creature was no longer gonna happen - also possible.

And I guess that's not a level of situational awareness wrt to reads/wagons that couldn't possibly come from town but it makes me wary all the same.

Plus since we know that we're dealing with 2 group scum this trajectory wouldn't be silly for scum to take at all - which is honestly what I'd chalk this up to otherwise. :p

I mean deadline rush if you're scum with frog you wanna be ready to make the hop if you need to but also wanna guide the mislynch through at the same time and that's... pretty cut and dry what lion is doing here from the looks of it.

[grapes]

well to be fair you guys are invested in this a month longer than i am and probably used up your second wind a while ago

which is why i said - hop in the backpack

this is an easy town win

[grapes]

RIP thread

[grapes]

zonked out last night in the middle of a post and MS ate it I think dammit

[grapes]

it was basically just finishing up with looking at the interesting shit that happened day 2 and concluding that the last scum is still pretty obvious anyway lol

think ill just move on to frogs iso or something

[grapes]

oh nvm found it

[grapes]

Votecount 2.22

Creature (3)

- grapes, GuiltyLion, thenewearth

[L-3]

frog (2)

- Dunnstral, Creature

[L-4]

KittenLicks (1)

- GreyICE

[L-5]

Dunnstral (1)

- frog

[L-5]

GreyICE (1)

- BTD6_Maker

[L-5]

Parama (1)

- KittenLicks

[L-5]

BTD6_Maker (1)

- Parama

[L-5]

Not Voting (0)

-

Nobody!

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Nothing particularly special about this votecount; mostly just quoting to keep track of which page I'm on.
Frog and dunn cross-voting would be some relatively next-level distancing I guess considering this is the page where momentum shifts, pretty out of nowhere, against frog.

Parama's vote is in a "safer" place than guiltylion's is, though. At least at the moment; further down this is actually where he hops on kittenlicks and I mean if you guys read this page it really is all about frog so...

But like:

I honestly hate both the Dunnstral and Creature wagons today. The Creature wagon moreso.

VOTE: frog

UNVOTE:
VOTE: KittenLicks

Have any of you guys ever seen scum just rev the saw so blatantly like this? xD

I haven't in a WHILE.

I mean this sorta reminds me of my scumgame a bit. Pick apart and destroy me and my buddies "enemies" but it's like always far far more nonchalant than this. haha

Also:

frog needs to come in here and put his vote back on Creature, since that was the lynch he wanted

"hey dummy why aren't you voting your counterwagon"

Amidst the momentum shift this post is not a good look and in the earlier post I made this page is found his first real acknowledgment of the pressure on frog and it was just pure unadulterated hedge so like.. yea GL looks worse than parama does here AGAIN.

Dunn's posting this page is just pushing headlong into frog while crossvoting like he's almost confirmed town. lol

I mean tbh there's actually an off shot he's self-aligned and might endgame us but... 12 player mini-theme having two 3P roles like that seems heavy as fuck and I'd really rather lose to dunn than GL anyway LOL.

[grapes]

So, day 1 actually might be worth looking into again now since i wasn't around for that and there's more flips and stuff. Remember my first skim through of it being a trudge, though.

Then frog's iso.

[grapes]

Okay yea just started into the end of day 1 it's as I remember; migraine inducing.

Hey parama and dunn are you guys still waffling around or have I converted you into Lion-scum believers yet.

[grapes]

[grapes]

[grapes]

I'm not gonna play your little what-if games.

It's bad enough I need to put effort into convincing people that obvious scum is obvious scum.

And then nobody even reads my shit or posts or anything like if I'm wasting my time and yall don't give a shit about this game let me know I'll go do something else.

[grapes]

And for those not following along; if guiltylion is scum he roleblocked me last night and the zero risk claim is to say he saved me.

It's not a slam-dunk point. But the fact that he's taking it seriously and trying to have like this big "gotcha" moment about it coupled with all this "why me why me" and "grapes is scum his posts are trash" is just obvious scumposting/discrediting and this game should have ended in a town win 2 days ago.

[grapes]

Votecount 4.6

GuiltyLion (1)

- grapes

[L-2]

Not Voting (3)

- GuiltyLion, Parama, Dunnstral

With 4 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

Deadline for Day 4 is Friday, August 12th at 9PM EST.

Mod Notes

None!

________________________________________


Who fucking knows?

There's latent abilities. Hidden abilities. Fucking 3P dog poop vendors.

Unknown variables that make it so scum have even more incentive to tell as few lies as possible than they usually do.

[grapes]

LOL i don't even remember voting lion was i drunk?

[grapes]

Hey guys if you're heart set on dragging this day out the full 2 weeks at least post.

[grapes]

meh

sure why not

VOTE: No lynch

[grapes]

Wait he's not a doc?

No he's a roleblocker.

[grapes]

Dunn do you not feel at all wigged out at how guilty absolutely trusts you 100%?

I mean like you're obviously not group scum but going all in with your trust on someone who can "win with town" and primarily pushing the person who kept town in teh game yesterday is a blatant scum trajectory and I'll be mad if he wins this especially with half the dead town calling for his head most of the game.

My biggest fear is that you win and exit the game like creature did a day earlier than you claimed (which is tomorrow) and that's a town loss no matter how you slice it.

But I mean if that's the case town doesn't really have the numbers alive to do anything about it anyway. :/

[grapes]

Votecount 4.7

No Lynch (1)

- grapes

[L-2]

Not Voting (3)

- GuiltyLion, Parama, Dunnstral

With 4 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

Deadline for Day 4 is Friday, August 12th at 9PM EST.

Mod Notes

None!

________________________________________


And... yep just gave myself a headache. Thanks game.

[grapes]

yeah this is a fair point tho, grapes was all gung-ho lynching frog and while basically everyone else who wasn't a lover or frog considered the possibility of loverscum, he never did, not at all

Here's the part that you're missing though. The primary reason that frog was even being discussed as possible town compared to the lovers was because of the MTT steak thing.

I mean you do remember that there was a wagon on him the previous day correct?

When I replaced in the first thing I did was brush up on the game mechanics and stuff so the "scum have matching vendors to their fakeclaims" part of the OP was still pretty fresh in my mind because I found that really interesting and even had the thought that scum would try and peddle that at some point to confirm them as town - what do you know they did!

If I'm scum there I stay hush hush about that and let the titus bury herself while the rest of the game sings songs about frog being confirmed town by flavor.

To argue that I'm scum you need say that I basically game threw or I'm one daft mafia player.

btw can you link all your scumgames in like, the past year or two, thanks. if you're going to meta-defense, you better be prepared for it to hold up under scrutiny. maybe i'll dig them up myself.

sure man

midnight sun

^ I bussed klingon day 1 here but aborted towards deadline and townread her and the rest of my buddies the remainder of the game. Two of them I hard townread. Despite Vyse death tunneling elbirn like a madman.

Open 632

^ this game was ass - had literally the worst buddies ever, they both perpetually lurked and did nothing to look town. Still didn't bus I just essentially tried to ignore them because I was in a good enough position to sway town anyway but I ate a wolf kill - fuck multiball.

Newbie 1696

^ IC game just hard townread caken the whole game with odd bits of distancing thrown in every once in a while

[grapes]

I know I realized that halfway through my post.

[grapes]

First things first.

@SnarkySnowman

Can scum put in a kill and also another action?

If so then GL visiting parama wouldn't really prove anything. Especially considering self-targeting roles like bulletproof are unaffected by roleblocks; but ask the mod about how that would interact to make sure, parama.

[grapes]

If a roleblock wouldn't stop parama from receiving results then guiltylion could just -not- block me since it's essentially a 1v1 anyway (a pretty lolzy one but eh). Because he doesn't care if I watch correctly at this point.

[grapes]

Or if it does impede results then he probably has an item vendor tied to his fakeclaim and could just target you with that since your inventory is full anyway.

[grapes]

Yo what would you guys do without me? : ]

Probably lose via naivety tbh.

[grapes]

Not sure. But he would only need to have access to 2.

I know that kills are usually factional.

Did anyone claim that their item vendors were a separate kind of action from an individual one?

[grapes]

Kills are always carried out from the person

He would have to be a roleblocker

You think he'd also have an item vendor on top of that?

Yea I'm not arguing that kills aren't carried out by a person. Newbie games let last scum roleblocker block and kill it's not even a rare thing.

I don't see why one scum would have a fake item while the other wouldn't.

And like I said he doesn't even really need to block me, or even necessarily have a fake item anyway.

He kills you and blocks or vends parama (depending on whether or not his block interferes with self targeting roles results); and he's trying to ship that like it makes him confirmed town and yall are eating it up for some reason.

[grapes]

btw parama ask snarky by PM how you interact with roleblockers this is important

[grapes]

because depending on the answer lion might've just fucked himself

but ive probably said too much at this point

[grapes]

Go home lion you're drunk.

[grapes]

Because I've never heard of a self MD before and don't know for certain whether it behaves the same as something like BP.

I'm guessing it does but I can't be sure.

[grapes]

And my uncertainty of how that interaction would play out stems from the differences between a passive that gives results vs one that does not.

And this is no average game either.

[grapes]

OH I see what he's driving at there.

I wasn't asking that question for myself I asked because you all were assuming that GL targeting parama meant he would be confirmed town for some reason and wanted mod clarification in thread on how that's complete bullshit.

[grapes]

As seen by me continuing to argue about how it's possible before the mod has shown up to answer the question.

[grapes]

you probs shoulda kept that to yourself tbh

oh well

[grapes]

well the idea was to make lion have to decide whether to block you or vend to you and that might've freed me up to actually use my watch tonight depending
but if you can't be blocked i guess it didn't matter either way

pedit: yup

[grapes]

Votecount 4.9

No Lynch (1)

- grapes, Dunnstral

[L-1]

Not Voting (2)

- GuiltyLion, Parama

With 4 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

Deadline for Day 4 is Friday, August 12th at 9PM EST.

Mod Notes

None!

________________________________________


he's not a watcher we've been through this

[grapes]

watcher says who targeted
he claimed to only know that he's been targeted by

something

im not crazy am i?

[grapes]

why the heck does grapes think guilty is a fruit vendor, what

Meh. I just think that it's more likely that scum both got fake items rather than just one that makes more sense to me for some reason.

Just considering all possibilities here.

This is basically a prod dodge.

[grapes]

I mean, the plan was "ruined" before I even said anything if you check the OP again.

Which is kind of a on my part too.

This game's players just like to jump to conclusions and GL was probably trying to capitalize on that. It almost lost us the game once already.

[grapes]

Also, still wouldn't really mind a no-lynch if that's what you guys wanna do. I guess.

It's just from my pov all it does is stretch this game out another 2 weeks and lets lion bring whoever he wants into three way (probably parama because his read on me is a shit awful remnant of not understanding his own fucking role from way back on day 1 i think xD).

[grapes]

I guess the upside to no-lynch is that dunn could die; that way my indie endgame paranoia is at least suppressed.

I'm just not really down for backstroking in apathy ridden dead thread just to be the game losing mislynch a month from now.

Aint nobody got time for that.

[grapes]

I mean when someone claims indie under pressure claiming to "win with town" and then retracts it later on once the game has forgotten about you as an option or at least no longer has the time to seriously consider you as an option; it doesn't really matter how good any of us think we are at gaming setups there's gonna be that little nudge in the back of your mind no matter what that something weird might be going on.

What might help ease it would be if you could explain what your town motive was to claim like that? Because I'm struggling to attribute any realistically.

[grapes]

What you do have going for you is that at least you're not clearly playing the "let's survive till endgame and hammer all L1's and not read the thread and have fake reads on lurkers the whole game" thing that creature was doing.

But that's meh; you're a better player than he is.

[grapes]

Don't what me.

[grapes]

Votecount 4.2

Not Voting (4)

- grapes, GuiltyLion, Parama, Dunnstral

With 4 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

Deadline for Day 4 is Friday, August 12th at 9PM EST.

Mod Notes

Creature wins as of post 2348

________________________________________


HEY GUESS WHAT

I'M NOT A THIRD PARTY

[grapes]

Don't what me.

I never claimed third party

thought you did

[grapes]

I meant that as in "look, creature was third party so it wasn't me"

Other people thought I was third party because of my role claim

oh okay im seeing where i fucked up now but at the same time when you claim an alt wincon spec like that is pretty justified
but i was wrong on you backtracking on your claim just had the wrong context and misrememebered shit from my skim i guess

[grapes]

grapes

why?

how the fuck am i not obvtown seriously?

[grapes]

iso me

[grapes]

Great let's fucking do this then.

VOTE: Lion

[grapes]

It's been a loooong time coming baby.

And not even just today - the whole game.

[grapes]

Dunn, parama, search your hearts. You know it's the right thing to do.

Not sure what else I can really say at this point.

[grapes]

Also not sure why I even care about this game clearly nobody else does. I replaced in at L1 dead in the water. Things looked bleach for town.
But we turned it around.

WE CLOSE STRONG AROUND HERE RIGHT.

FUCKING CAP THIS GAME OFF STRONG DON'T LET IT SLIP AWAY AND MAKE THIS GAME A TERRIBLE MEMORY MAKE IT A GAME TO REMEMBER.

Where town crawled back from fucking nothing.

[grapes]

prod dodge

Spoiler:

[grapes]

also nice to see Lion not just lay down and lurk

but most of his stuff we've gone over 100 times at this point; ill respond to whatever you guys think i should respond to, though

[grapes]

Guys deadline is tomorrow what the fuck.

[grapes]

i'm going to have to sit down and read at some point, but i am just

ugh

i'll try to do smething tomorrow i guess.

like seriously you choose NOW to read stuff

[grapes]

it was hyperbole

believe ive said this twice now

[grapes]

I watched you, parama.

[grapes]

And never fear, no monsters snuck up on you.

[grapes]

Hmm.


It doesn't really make a lot of sense for guiltylion as scum to no-kill last night -- I mean what does it really accomplish besides give credence to protection existing?

[grapes]

It's risking the game for a pretty meh gain because now we're at a point where if dunn ends up dead tomorrow guilty is in a ridiculously tough spot. And if dunn's alive we win. (assuming dunn is a good and true member of the town of course - but now we've got enough time where we can cross that bridge if it comes down to it unless he like... auto-endgames everyone at once or something )

[grapes]

Losing play all around.

[grapes]

Wait a minute.

Guys.

It's parama.

Holy fucking shit.

[grapes]

He literally cements himself into a position to make guilty and I cross-vote by no-killing there.

And shit just doesn't play out this way if lion is scum.

FUCK GODDAMMIT WHY DID I CLAIM I SHOULDA MADE PARAMA GIVE HIS RESULTS FIRST GAH.

pedit: having your role confirmed doesn't really mean shit, though?

and when did we even confirm your role?

[grapes]

Active + passive is possible.

[grapes]

And he fucks with our heads even more by not blocking me.

Everything is coming together.

[grapes]

VOTE: No lynch

I should learn to shut the fuck up.

Optimal play here is to no lynch and literally talk about nothing else.

Lion, sorry man. I've been aggressively wrong the last couple weeks.

[grapes]

Yea, what does that quote prove? Did someone claim they visited you?

[grapes]

It doesn't matter anyway.

The big bad scum role being a self motion detector roleblocker makes a lot of sense, actually.

[grapes]

please let guilty answer the question.

Yes, we need lion to answer this super important question that anyone who's played a newbie game could tell you the answer to.

[grapes]

Kay, gonna shut up for real now.

[grapes]

That's not a bad point.

So maybe it's dunn?

Also protects aren't informed if they stop a kill or not.

[grapes]

Actually.......

Wait.................................

GL CLAIME BODY GUARD WTF?

Guilty why didn't you eat the kill if you stopped it mate?

[grapes]

Votecount 5.3

No Lynch (2)

- Dunnstral, grapes

[L-1]

Not Voting (2)

- GuiltyLion, Parama

With 4 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

Deadline for Day 5 is Monday, August 22nd at 9PM EST.

Mod Notes

None!

________________________________________


YO WE CAUGHT THIS FOOL FAKECLAIMING THE WRONG ROLE AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[grapes]

I will claim because I see some speculation about spaghetti vending or me being Mettaton. I am Undyne - one shot bulletproof. I also have a latent ability to become a

bodyguard

, that has activated since I survived to Day 3.

YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

confirmed scum

[grapes]

OHHHHHHHHHHHH

missed the BP part

[grapes]

FUCK MAN I DON'T KNOW.

[grapes]

gg well played

i can now tell my grandkids that i was confirmed scum and didn't get lynched