Light and Darkness (Mini 1810) - Game Over!

[JasonWazza]

JasonWazza, Vedith and SnarkySnowman have confirmed their role without posting in the thread and I think this is suspicious.

Quick phone post:

Ircher saying that is NAI, it's probably just that they forgot to confirm. Also the fact that people haven't posted is NAI because there was no day start PM.

Morning all, this seems like it will be a fun game.

[JasonWazza]

Fuck quotes are doing that again

[JasonWazza]

I ended up watching Whose Line Is It Anyways highlight reels for like 2 hours last night, and can't remember the last time I actually watched the show. Have no idea how I started watching those videos.

What's your proposition?

You get bonus points for recognizing the source material of the quote.

Here's my proposition - I think we worked together well enough in that Open Game (well, Tammy was a big part of it but still) that I have a conundrum that I think you may be able to help with.

Fate

You know he and I go together like oil and water. And I don't feel like I want to bother bashing my head up against a brick wall trying to deal with our playstyle issues.

So what I propose is that if I get a good feeling of Town with you (which I hope should not take too awfully wrong) I will let you read Fate for me.

Sound like a plan you would find acceptable?

Sounds good to me! It's highly likely that I won't shine as beautifully as I'd like before Fourth of July weekend has passed, but once I'm done celebrating America Day I will be that bright little townie once again.

Sounds good to me! It's highly likely that I won't shine as beautifully as I'd like before Fourth of July weekend has passed, but once I'm done celebrating America Day I will be that bright little townie once again.

[JasonWazza]

What real scum hunting are you expecting?

[JasonWazza]

I'd have to reread that game nacho ICed and think in more depth of Creature's voting habits than I intend to right now but I know in micro 600 he was playing around with his vote a lot early on.

Just so we are clear, using your vote early is a bit different to using your vote when it legitimately means nothing.

I mean we could all agree on voting one person, and it wouldn't mean anything.

[JasonWazza]

I can usually get something out of people's attempts to guess my reads, though in this particular game I don't really expect anyone to distinguish between the four shades of "i don't hate this entrance but i don't like anything about it either" that i've got going.

So your not naming them why exactly?

[JasonWazza]

Wake88, do you think MagnaofIllusion is scum-aligned?

I do, and I want to try and lynch him once the day officially starts.

How exactly is MoI scum aligned?

Nitpicking is hardly a scum trait in the early game.

[JasonWazza]

Well that's the main thing that isn't just a load of bullshit.

You are deliberately ignoring the discussion I had with Plotipus earlier.

You can't tell if he is ignoring the discussion at all, just because he doesn't directly acknowledge it, and this feels like a way to avoid the suspicion then actually acknowledge it.

There is nothing in my or MURDERCAT's posts which lead to that interpretation.

I now believe that Aihara Mei is town-aligned...

49

Lets face it, your just avoiding the suspicion as much as you can without actually acknowledging it properly, the best you have is nitpicking here.

[JasonWazza]

How is the accusation invalid because of that?

[JasonWazza]

VOTE:iraonavp

[JasonWazza]

Oh it really is.

[JasonWazza]

I feel like most actual Townies will understand the vote, and you don't simply because your not a townie.

[JasonWazza]

Because i would rather see the reactions from more then just you to find out who is likely to be town.

Fact is 140 shows Scum sided thinking.

[JasonWazza]

Vote:Iraonavp

[JasonWazza]

Because thinking that someone claimed they could confirm themselves as town-aligned is a very good reason to read them as town-aligned.

This is it fate.

[JasonWazza]

hate to do this but prod dodge.

[JasonWazza]

UNVOTE: Iraonavp

After reading him again, it feels genuine.

VOTE: Vedith

Not really liking 104, let alone any of his ISO.

[JasonWazza]

Question, in 104, why did you cut off the quote?

[JasonWazza]

My problem Vedith is with the fact that you cut the quote down further, and left just the "right now" part, trying to call yourself town, without actually calling yourself town.

[JasonWazza]

Hey site is back, that's sweet.

[JasonWazza]

So wait, Fate is scum because he is calling MoI scum but voting BTD?

Am i getting that right, or no?

[JasonWazza]

So here are my current thoughts.

MoI/Fate, feels like a SvT fight there, though i have no clue which one is which.
BTD feels meh, but not entirely sure if he is scum, be good to see him actually post reads to get an idea on him as to what alignment he might be other then nothing from him.
Iron i'm still not feeling the best on, but i'm starting to feel a little better, probably just the bad taste from my early scum read on him.
Aihara.... yeah i dunno, doesn't feel the best, seems like trying to hide behind that mod message when really it doesn't mean much.
Haven't played with Nacho in ages, but it feels like the town nacho from memory, though i don't recall him being an easy one to read either way.
Creature and Plot seem like the most proactive players in this game, Plot feels like the less town of the 2, but still town enough.
I honestly forgot Snarky existed, and that never leaves a good feel, not to mention, not sure how i feel about this post in retrospect

Based on the first post I'm pretty sure there's going to be at least 1 self aligned, or more than 3 factions, or both. 5:5:3 doesn't seem right to me.

I don't think that the first post really implies this all that heavily and makes me feel like this is extra knowledge kicking in to say this.

Spring i want more from, because i don't think any of his entrance gives me anything one way or the other.

UNVOTE: Vedith
VOTE: Snarky

Vedith feels dickish, but not scummish, not that that overly means much.

Murder feels like someone i'm going to need to prod with a few questions, i just need to find them questions.

[JasonWazza]

I don't understand how you could think that if you were previously saying that I am scum-aligned and I slipped...

That's ridiculous, like you just went back and ignored that after other people stopped thinking I was scum-aligned!

Ironavp looks good to me. I think him misunderstanding the role PM is pretty genuine; I'd imagine scum who received a role PM that was not Light OR Darkness wouldn't assume that the game was light versus darkness. I don't think any of the confusion that he's had is unreasonable from someone who didn't read their role PM too closely.

If i recall, this was the post that made me go and reread the conversation we had, and then i made 354.

(As a note i'm posting this then reading page 19)

[JasonWazza]

Aihara must just have to claim today.

Why do you feel so badly that we need a claim today?

[JasonWazza]

The question still stands, just remove the badly part.

[JasonWazza]

I agree with plot as well, though i don't think that necessarily takes a claim today, i mean i feel she has to claim tomorrow and if she can't prove that her role makes sense for what she was saying (that she can confirm it) we just lynch her for lying, because it's probably just a scum move, if she can confirm it, then there are 2 possible scenarios in my mind, i had typed these out but realized it probably wasn't the best idea, but basically one makes her scum, one makes this NAI.

[JasonWazza]

So hey plot, why is snarky in your town list when there has been no posts made by snarky since your last one?

[JasonWazza]

Snip

So plot, if Snarky is just low hanging fruit, what do you say about 206, to me that doesn't feel like a post that comes from a town mindset.

I get the whole "there's a bunch of low hanging fruit" but do you honestly just believe that none of them are scum?

@Nacho, i'm trying to sure up my reads, reactions to any question can give something.

[JasonWazza]

So it must be that she's a fruit vendor or something and misinterpreted it, and I see no scum-aligned motivation to fake that slip. It doesn't achieve anything, but Plotipus is suggesting some plot to confirm herself as town-aligned or something, when the only true interpretation of what she did has little bearing on how people read her.

She has told us she isn't a confirmable town role

[JasonWazza]

It's a confirmable town role so I'd prefer to confirm it later in the game as oppose to now.

Please confirm you received and understood your role by pm'ing me your full alignment, flavor name, and effective role. Failure to do so before Dawn ends will result in force-replacement.
~Ircher

How does faking this misinterpretation make sense from a scum-aligned perspective at all?

Aihara Mei wouldn't pretend to be an innocent child if she was scum-aligned because that's just dumb...

So it must be that she's a fruit vendor or something and misinterpreted it, and I see no scum-aligned motivation to fake that slip. It doesn't achieve anything, but Plotipus is suggesting some plot to confirm herself as town-aligned or something, when the only true interpretation of what she did has little bearing on how people read her.

why tho

And this is exactly the sort of feebly toned scum-aligned response that you made to springlullaby, too...

Umm pretty sure i made a read list, and that it has something to that effect in it.

Why are you voting BTD instead of any of the other no shows?

[JasonWazza]

And ignore that quote, apparently my computer is doing that again.

[JasonWazza]

BTD feels meh, but not entirely sure if he is scum, be good to see him actually post reads to get an idea on him as to what alignment he might be other then nothing from him.

This is what i said Iraon, in no way is this me calling him scum, at best it's me calling him null.

[JasonWazza]

And i also don't see what makes BTD scum over Snarky, Snarky has shown just as much "internal knowledge" as BTD, if not a shit ton more, because i for one wouldn't have guessed that the game isn't 5:5:3, this reeks of the knowledge that scum would have.

[JasonWazza]

Them walls of text's though.

[JasonWazza]

@Plot, hey is Aihara an alt of MS, or is it off another site, and if it's another site, what sort of style are they?

[JasonWazza]

Alright then, i don't really care about the identity, but the fact they are an alt from this site makes me feel a lot more confident with this

UNVOTE: Snarky
VOTE: Aihara

This is L-2

[JasonWazza]

Magna my entire persona is kind of a farce thats why my title is HAPPY but.... yeah I never really hated you like that sorry it went so deep.


My Shaman mafia roles literally had nothing to do with you >___>b?

VOTE: BTD Still no "catch up" post or ISO dive and underwhelming content. Its clear

I'm not going to get MoI lynched today with the effort he's putting in compared to me

Ok. See, everytime Fate posts a post like this, tonally I read him as town.
Even if there is a dissonance between the part in blue (talk to MoI as if he knows MoI is town and the whole meta thing from MoI is sincere) and the part in red (want to lynch MoI) that I can recognize as scummy, I just get a town vibe overall. It's like somekind of superpower I can't put my finger on.

@Fate, why do you think MoI is scum?

Spring i wouldn't really call that Dissonance either way, the blue just sounds like a more out of the game thing saying sorry even outside of a game context.

Using the blue as alignment indicative is pretty poor to me.

[JasonWazza]

@Jason, the dissonance here is: I think Fate!town thinking MoI scum would have found MoI's meta justification to be suspicious, especially since his own version of the conflict is "people butting head".

Or fate regardless of alignment, feels like a dick having read that, and apologizes.

To me i read the blue as a basically completely out of game comment to MoI.

[JasonWazza]

@Plot, hey is Aihara an alt of MS, or is it off another site, and if it's another site, what sort of style are they?

To qualify for the game she HAS to have two games worth of MS experience. Offsite matters not a lick. I’m wondering why you were bending over backwards to find a way to accommodate her Alt status that doesn’t make her a direct liar. Why is that?

No it was to satisfy a niggle i had in the back of my mind for a few reasons.

1. It doesn't nessecarilly have to be MS experience, to my knowledge that has always been left up to mod's discretion, and would be up to ircher as to whether he would allow someone who maybe has experience on an off site area to enter the game.
2. To me without knowing that she is an MS player, i would say that it would be a 50/50 flip, fact is that a lot of other sites would have less knowledge on confirming rules, also a lot less knowledge on what confirming someone as town means.
3. With Plot saying she is from MS, i'm a lot more willing to go with the lynch as that gives me that thought that it's very likely that she is actually scum, as i feel most people on MS should understand that, and reading what had been said by her, i feel confident that it's the case.

This wasn't me trying to accommodate her alt status and simply me trying to settle my mind into this being a good lynch on scum.

[JasonWazza]

Unofficial Vote Count cause shit is happening and i want it.

Creature (0) -
BTD6_Maker (1) - Aihara
Magna (0) -
Murder (2) - Iraon, Snarky
Jason (0) -
Fate (1) - Murder
Iraon (0) -
Vedith (2) - Fate, Creature
Aihara (5) - Magna, Nacho, Plotipus, Spring, Jason
Nacho (0) -
Plotipus (0) -
Snarky (0) -
Spring (0) -
Not Voting (2) - BTD6_Maker, Vedith,

[JasonWazza]

This game right now is boring.

As a note to everyone, we are sitting on a 5 day deadline right now, so unless one of the inactives come and do something useful, we are going to have to compromise somewhere.

[JasonWazza]

Except then more then half the town has a want to lynch them regardless.

Cause lets assume the game is 5:5:3

Someone claims being light sided, there is at least 8 people still fine with lynching you regardless of what you actually are.

There is no reason for any townie to actually claim their light/dark alignment.

@Creature, the reason we are stalled is less about the wagon, and more the fact that 30% of the town are doing nothing, and we need a 53% majority to do anything.

And there isn't all that much us active people can do right now with this stalling happening.

[JasonWazza]

Thank you, murdercat.


The light/dark randomisation in this game is really fucking weird if my reads are right.

I'm curious, what makes it weird if your reads are right?

[JasonWazza]

For 5 of us your the number 1 wagon to my knowledge, the compromise is more because of the inactives.

[JasonWazza]

Yeah i don't think there is much McMenno can do to change my mind that his slot needs lynching, and the fact that he didn't just claim is kinda pathetic.

[JasonWazza]

This is some scummy posting right here. Also, I didn't see the request for a claim yet (I'm on page 15 atm), and no, I don't think being at L-1 requires me to claim. And I will not claim. You know why? Because it's antitown. You see, scum have designated fakeclaims, so if I were scum, I could just fakeclaim. But since I am town, I want to keep as much information hidden from scum today, so that they can't base their actions on that. Do you understand?

Go to the top of this page.

[JasonWazza]

Then by all means do your re-read, but expect to get lynched, since none of us can realistically take your slot as Town without some sort of knowledge of what Aihara was on about early on.

[JasonWazza]

Vedith what has he done that is pro town?

Fuck the only thing his really done that isn't do half a re-read, is say he won't claim, which he is L-1 with intent, so i would say that is Anti-town.

At this point, since he has refused to claim i would be fine with seeing a lynch on McMenno go through.

[JasonWazza]

which he is L-1 with intent, so i would say that is Anti-town.

Just because someone has a different opinion to you doesn't make it anti town.
He has a very strong point. To save himself, it could be a simple "I'm a doc" claim. Either he lives or gets the real doc (or whatever role he goes with)... He's gaining nothing here as scum.

This is why the wagon is terrible.

He has no point at all, the claim is less about infomation (and trying to not lynch him) and more about trying to understand what the fuck Aihara was smoking.

Personally given what he has said, i think this lynch should go through regardless of his claim.

And i love how the wagon is terrible because people have a different opinion.

[JasonWazza]

This game is so boring and can go get F'd.

McMenno, your about to get lynched regardless, so your logic is terrible.

Also i think this is the most active Vedith has been so far this game, and it's the end of day 1 when we are basically set on a lynch, trying to make the counter wagon go through.

[JasonWazza]

And i love how the wagon is terrible because people have a different opinion.

No, the wagon is terrible because it's not scum.

And it's not scum because the lurker says so, all hail the lurkers.

[JasonWazza]

Speaking of lurkers.

I don't know how your internet is iffy if you manage to jump on the instant you are pm'd.

[JasonWazza]

And it's not scum because the lurker says so, all hail the lurkers.

Anyone not looking for an easy wagon can see it's not scum.

So what, 8 people think it's a scum wagon, and yet we are all wrong because you said so.

Legitimately, you just came in and tried so hard to get the counter wagon going again, had you done this like 3 days ago, you wouldn't look like a dumbass, but considering your only doing this now, this is pathetic.

[JasonWazza]

Fate do you really think another wagon was going to form in time?

VOTE: Vedith

[JasonWazza]

No offense, but that seems like your using a player tell as an alignment tell.

That's just something that a person does, which doesn't always change due to alignment.

[JasonWazza]

Are you talking to me?

If so, no offense, but it seems like you expect me to care what you think.

P-Edit: Are you meaning McMenno by himself, or the McMenno slot, because in no way would i think the McMenno slot was town enough not to lynch, for McMenno himself, sure he seemed town, but again, it comes down to what happened regarding the whole slot.

[JasonWazza]

I don't see how that is town aligned, the whole Mcmenno would claim if he was scum reasoning is bad and wifom at best.

Outside of that, he says nothing is happening, and is continuing to let nothing happen.

Personally i'm a bit meh on BTD, mostly cause he never did do everyone else yesterday, and didn't do them overnight, but that's probably just a me thing.

[JasonWazza]

Iraon, how does believing what you say mean anything?

[JasonWazza]

What sort of question is that?

P-EDIT: this is at 866

[JasonWazza]

I mostly just need to do a re-read honestly.

I mean Vedith still seems like scum, from what i am reading of his flawed logic, but i need to re-read to check if it's all just flawed logic and i'm tunneling.

[JasonWazza]

I believe Fate has been discussed, if you want to question me then be my guest, but right now you haven't got much that i can see.

[JasonWazza]

I mostly just need to do a re-read honestly.

I mean Vedith still seems like scum, from what i am reading of his flawed logic, but i need to re-read to check if it's all just flawed logic and

i'm

tunneling.

I was meaning i think i am tunneling.

I believe Fate has been discussed, if you want to question me then be my guest, but right now you haven't got much that i can see.

Fate has been barely discussed.
Your response to my "not much" is reviewing me as you think I am tunneling. How does that make sense from a townset mind?
Talk to me about MoI and Fate. Do you still think that was TvS - If so, who do you think is the scum out of them?
Why do you think it's TvS? - Or was it a comment just to make it look like you were participating.

Personally, I think comments like "TvT" "SvT" are even more worthless, than "I have a feeling that he is town/scum".

It felt TvS simply because i don't overly think they would butt heads the way they did if they were both Town, though this may be very wrong.

Again i do have to re-read the game.

[JasonWazza]

First 10 pages for my reread;

24 by wake still stands out as odd. (Now the Spring Slot)
31 Is here for my own reference. (Nacho)
34 is meh, feels like your trying too hard. (Plotipus)
67 MoI gets town points for this.
85 Plotipus is waffling really hard here.
87 is also a really massive waffle post from Plot.
90 confuses me, and makes me confused as to why Iraon thinks MoI should have had a read for Aihara
93 Plot calls out Iraon for a good reason here.
103 Iraon just doesn't feel right in this post.
109 Don't like this BTD post.
114 is another iffy Iraon post, Though from memory i don't think i liked him until later on anyway, that said his early game makes me feel like he is scum so much.
120 Creature feels a bit off saying that his only good read is Aihara
133 another Iraon post that feels bad.
159 is an interesting Iraon scum team
172 Everything Iraon says still feels scum aligned to me.
179 I'm reading this for like the 5th time, and i'm still not fully convinced i like Iraon for town, it feels like town confusion, but i feel like scum might be able to fake this after having it explained as it was in the previous few posts.
185 Feels like an oppurtunistic Murdercat jump.
196 seems out of place as well from Murdercat
206 is snarky doing nothing.
222 feels like a slip that just shouldn't be happening at this point (iraon)
245 confuses me, considering Iraon wasn't aware of this.

[JasonWazza]

256 I still don't understand this from Vedith
262 Actually i don't recall reading this post, and this makes me feel that Iraon will be scum, if he knew there was 2 towns, then most of what happened with the back and forth about the two towns part wouldn't have happened (not to mention, i don't think i would call that dark town and light town)
277 I think this is the post that has been changing my thoughts on Iraon each time.
280 is a whiteknight i never really liked. (fate)
283 This BTD post still reeks, but i'm not sure if it's just him using general town logic or just being scum.
309/310 Not sure i like either of these really
319 is here for my reference (Murder)
Page 14 is just full of Nacho.
379 I don't see why BTD thinks his ISO being bad needs explaining.
410 I don't like this post from Murder, his line of thinking i don't feel lines up with where town should be.
414 is a meh post (Creature)
415 Hey spring, what did the end of this post mean? "but maybe I'm the one not in the know?"
424 As a note, i really don't like Vedith's attitude towards the game in general.
Jesus fuck there are lots of walls, i'm not going over all of them here.
485 Still don't like this post

Bleh, there happens to be so many walls in the pages, so i think i will do a re-read without this sort of posting.

P-EDIT:

34 is meh, feels like your trying too hard. (Plotipus)

trying too hard to...goof off or something else?

206 is snarky doing nothing.

Is this your first experience with Snarky?

First part, it just feels like your trying too hard to be all i'm town, and hell the fact that you had apparently planned to say your town to nacho doesn't sit right.

Second part, i believe so, if it isn't i just don't remember him.

[JasonWazza]

UNVOTE: Vedith
VOTE: Murdercat

[JasonWazza]

I fucking love the wagon on me, it is truly beautiful.

[JasonWazza]

I fucking love the wagon on me, it is truly beautiful.

What...

Have you had a look at the people on my wagon?

Beautiful.

Compare 1032 WITH Vedith reaction to his wagon and you'll see why Jason has to die today

MUrDer is a distant fourth after BTD and Plot

What is wrong with my reaction fate?

[JasonWazza]

I'm backing down now?

Fuck rereading is backing down, this makes total sense.

Not to mention, me going for a murdercat lynch doesn't mean i don't think your scum.

[JasonWazza]

What is your read on Vedith then?

Is dick a read?

But really it's a scum lean with my reread, because i feel like i'm tunneling on the fact that i don't like him because he is a dick.

I'm backing down now?

Fuck rereading is backing down, this makes total sense.

Not to mention, me going for a murdercat lynch doesn't mean i don't think your scum.

So you unvote a scum read and vote else where.

Talk to me about the SvT comment you made. Last time you ditched the thread when asked.
Go into more details about it.

I'm fairly certain i covered this but none the less, the SvT thing was said before knowledge of the background was known.

That said, it felt like a SvT butting heads sort of thing, the whole MoI trying to proxy read and fate butting his head as much as he could felt like at least one of those were scum, though probably not both of them.

[JasonWazza]

Yes me not liking you as a person makes me scum.

P-Edit: I didn't know, but it felt like the way that both approached it that at least one had to be scum.

Knowing the history, i'm not sold that either are scum really.

[JasonWazza]

Yes me not liking you as a person makes me scum.

P-Edit: I didn't know, but it felt like the way that both approached it that at least one had to be scum.

Knowing the history, i'm not sold that either are scum really.

Wrong, you still saying I'm scum but can't give a reason makes you scum.
So when I confront you about S v T you retract your comment on it and now think that they are both town.

What makes them both town?
Quotes / reasons etc.

I'm calling you a scum lean, and pointing out that i was probably tunneling on you because you were a dick.

Also i'm not retracting the comment, the comment stood when it was said, go find it, and you will find that the MoI history was after that post.

Also i said i'm not sold either are scum, i never said i read them both as town, these are 2 different subsets of wording.

[JasonWazza]

I can't put if into words why Jason, at least not adequately

Vedith just seemed to pick up his game and start producing real content when pressured


Yours was a half-assed catchup post that felt like it was meant to appease us and a vote on a murder counterwagon

So because my catchup post was half assed that makes me scum, pretty sure that makes me lazy not scum but whatever.

[JasonWazza]

Wait Plot, since when am i a scum read, that seems like a convenient read list to me.

Hell earlier you had me as your third strongest town read.

[JasonWazza]

So i'm going to claim now, since i think the verification is needed and i'm not sure i will be on at a point where it can happen after this.

My role, is that i am an Odd-Night Fruit Vendor.

Nacho should be 100% able to verify as i crumbed the specific way it happens.

This game is so boring and can go get F'd.

McMenno, your about to get lynched regardless, so your logic is terrible.

Also i think this is the most active Vedith has been so far this game, and it's the end of day 1 when we are basically set on a lynch, trying to make the counter wagon go through.

[JasonWazza]

I also want everyone to look very hard at my wagon, and the fact that no one on it can give a proper reason i am scum that isn't really just an NAI trait (Or Vedith who can't stop trying to put words in my mouth, rather then reading what i have said.)

I will be releasing a read's list soon but not right now.

[JasonWazza]

I read your catchup (but didn't click on links, just relied on memory) and it looks like you've put some effort in but Fate's right that it's not a particularly difficult sort of effort, and it's missing a conclusion,

or it looks more like you started with a conclusion

(that iroana and vedith were scum) and then wrote your catchup from the perspective of that conclusion.

Fuck for starting with a conclusion, i seem to not be using that conclusion at all with my current vote.

Also your reasoning is shit considering again

Today you made a read list with me as 3rd highest town read

explain to me how you are willing to lynch someone that was such a high town read?

[JasonWazza]

Just so we are clear i want to say this, going into a re-read with a conclusion, is a shitty reason to lynch someone, because holy fuck, i have read this entire game at least once to get to this point, so yes i am bound to have prebound thoughts in my mind, and yes that means certain people will have higher priority while i am making a reread where i go over my thoughts.

That said, i went in trying to work out

MY

thoughts to try and work out who i think are scum and who isn't.

The fact that i went in thinking Vedith was scum, well no shit, as i have said i thought i was tunneling, and yeah i probably fucking was.

Vedith your a scum lean, but i can't tell whether that's cause your a dick, or cause your actually scum, because holy flying fuck, how dare i let my brain try and work out over time if i'm getting these thoughts from him being a dick or him being scum.

Top people to look at:
Vedith, he is tunneling on me, and doing the same as i'm apparently getting lynched for, he is fucking tunneled onto me for no good reason.
Snarky, We didn't have a kill last night, so yes you guys need to work out if this is scum, or a useless fucking townie, and need to sort that out.
Plot, His reasoning is horseshit, he is trying to compromise onto a high townread for little to no reason.

P-EDIT: And fuck it, that is shitty fucking reasoning Irona.

[JasonWazza]

You know what Vedith, i bet i know what your role is, and i bet i know why your trying to lynch me, and it's a shit reason, we need to get Scum first you dipshit.

[JasonWazza]

Nacho let's play a little bit of ball, do you think it is multiball at all?

[JasonWazza]

Figured as much, do you think i am on the scum sided team of this game?

[JasonWazza]

Who would you aim to be wagoning other then me?

[JasonWazza]

If you were to make a call, do you think the town was evenly split (or close to it)?

[JasonWazza]

UNVOTE: Murdercat
VOTE: Creature

[JasonWazza]

Also out of interest Nacho, did you actually look back and realize it was me that sent the fruit?

[JasonWazza]

You think Ira is scum?

[JasonWazza]

Murder that isn't happening and you know it.

[JasonWazza]

I want to flip Creature, because i have trust in Nacho at this point.

[JasonWazza]

Murder i will say this, at this point if we want a wagon to go through, Creature is the best bet.

[JasonWazza]

Because he has 2 votes and Ira has 1? The wagon that has the best chance is you but I want to flip scum. Can we do spring?

Creature is on 3 votes (Myself, Nacho, Plot)

You would make that 4.

[JasonWazza]

VOTE: Creature

Nacho was most likely to die so fruiting him is damn questionable but

Given role madness i felt slightly safer Fruiting Nacho than anyone else.

[JasonWazza]

My role starts with C and it isn't appropriate for scum.

This is not how Town claims that role.

VOTE: Creature

I'm obviously back from V/LA and will try to get my thoughts together before the thread gets locked.

This is L-1

[JasonWazza]

Hey Nacho talk to me about Murder.

[JasonWazza]

I

hope

we lynch Jason today.
Ira please vote here.

VOTE: Jason

Also cheers for confirming my suspicions as to your tunneling.

[JasonWazza]

Snarky, did you not see his claim?

[JasonWazza]

Also what exactly is known about the setup right now? I'm fairly certain I'm missing stuff since I have no idea what MoI is talking about regarding Fate just above.

2 Towns (probably equally split), 1 scum faction, probably a decent chunk of roles that have off nights, no kills at nights.

[JasonWazza]

Vedith's case is actually "You can't reread, that isn't allowed."

[JasonWazza]

wait what?

[JasonWazza]

It seems unlikely that scum would fail twice even with an odd/even restriction. It's probably more unlikely that some sort of pr blocked them or they are nking though. Maybe they have an action other than killing that somehow helps them? I don't know I don't really have anything.

Well, it's a good chance that they would hit a different side, or even if RB, protection etc took effect as well.
I just find it odd that there are 2 nights without kills and yet no information laid out to show why.

Here's my problem with your specific theory (Light sided mafia/Dark sided mafia with only kills on the same side).

It feels to me like there are obvious Light/Dark sided players, to the point where i don't honestly believe if that was the restriction that they would somehow miss that much.

I do agree that there are probably some abilities that can only target their own side.

[JasonWazza]

Pagetop stolen

Also i'm sorry i just woke up and read your post and was like what the fuck is going on?

[JasonWazza]

btw Jason where are your thoughts right now?

My thoughts are really up in the air.

I honestly had thought of Vedith's Light/Dark killing method (though not necessarily with it being 2 mafias.) and for that to fly in my mind it has to be ALL scum within [Vedith, Iraon, BTD, Snarky] which doesn't sit too well with me.

Because any of the other's not nessecarilly making a kill wouldn't make sense (i wouldn't expect someone like Nacho to fuck up the kill) because enough of people's alignments are out there.

Then i was trying to think what people would possibly choose not to kill, and i was thinking that would mean at least 1 mafia within [MoI, Fate, Nacho ,(Plot though i'm not completely sold on this one)]

Outside of that, if it was saves on both nights, that just completely fucks with my mind, because we have no one claiming to have one of the roles that would account for this, and i don't believe we would have doctor's for all nights.

[JasonWazza]

How much of this Vedith suspicion is legit and how much of it is circlejerking?

Honestly Vedith is now low on my scum list based on his push and how that makes sense in my mind.

[JasonWazza]

and i don't believe we would have doctor's for all nights.

Reading is hard.

In case it's not clear though.

We have modifiers like odd/even active, so i don't believe that we would have doctors active every night, meaning it's likely that something like an RB/JK is out there, and if THEY had something i would expect a claim because anything would help with the extremely limited info we have.

Not to mention the fact that we are going no where fast today because of it.

[JasonWazza]

I mean given the lack of kills i kinda argue against that.

But yes I guess Arson/Poison/some other delayed kill could make sense, but even then there is at least one block coming into it.

[JasonWazza]

VOTE:Vedith

[JasonWazza]

Gonna come out and say, i doubt Vedith is scum based on that.

[JasonWazza]

Your argument is that me voting Vedith means i think he is scum.

This is incorrect.

[JasonWazza]

It's not about me voting someone i think is Town-Aligned, it's about me voting someone who isn't of my alignment, and given Vedith's push on me, i'm fairly certain this is the case.

[JasonWazza]

Well considering to my belief that Vedith isn't following that, i don't feel obliged to follow that either.

And as a note, i'm sitting my vote there right now while i keep looking through things, both in game and in my notes trying to work out who is scum in my mind.

P-EDIT: And your point?

[JasonWazza]

Makes sense.

[JasonWazza]

Iraon shut up you know that his not being literal.

[JasonWazza]

It reeks of scum wanting to Lynch a third party

Ok you have to explain how it's this instead of town wanting to lynch scum, because in my mind both are basically the same.

[JasonWazza]

UNVOTE: Vedith
VOTE: Snarky

I'm happy to see Snarky flipped.

L-2

[JasonWazza]

Iraon shut up you know that his not being literal.

You're missing the point completely.

I know, it still sounds wrong to say that. It is like saying "the fact that this person was confirmed as scum-aligned by a cop leaves a really bad taste in my mouth".

It's a phrasing of words, that just is not anything useful.

Your push is just plain stupid.

[JasonWazza]

@Snarky: Now would be a good time to claim if you're gonna

--P

I mean no, we wait for an intent to hammer.

[JasonWazza]

I wanna see you be brave

:

Jason

You just want my fruit don't you?

UNVOTE: Snarky

I honestly did that vote hoping to get some info, and what i got was actually surprising, that jump from BTD looks off.

@Snarky: your flip would give me an idea around the alignment of some of the other players, and if you are scum, give me a good looking at some of the people to move up the suspect list.

And i still want you flipped before we get into any later stage of the game, so there is that too.

I feel like Fate might just be scum and fake claiming due to the whole deal of the way he is trying to go around it, and the claim itself (Here is a claim where i can say there is an arson, and say i have a reason to not claim targets/results which gives me lots of leeway)

VOTE: Fate

[JasonWazza]

FA isn't scum, because i doubt Nacho was scum.

That said.

@Nacho

– since you survived the Night please clarify that your Santa Claus comment was in regards to getting something from an Inventor not the fruit vending from Jason.

Hey FA could you address this, it was directed at your predecessor today, and is probably kinda relevant.

[JasonWazza]

Why is it that you think Iraon is Scum?

[JasonWazza]

Vedith, how does Iraon adding you to a Neighbourhood in any way make him town?

[JasonWazza]

My question is more why Vedith wrote him off as town from that and making Vedith Crumb his role.

[JasonWazza]

Vedith, how does Iraon adding you to a Neighbourhood in any way make him town?

The title of the neighborhood, I already said...

You mean the title that for all Vedith knows you made?

Sure it's called the Neighbourhood of Hope, but that shouldn't mean anything, even scum Neighborizer's exist, and a reporter+Neighborizer doesn't seem all that town to me.

[JasonWazza]

None on a neighborizer.

If he was a cop or something maybe, but with a neighborizer being his second ability i would say his claim is scum as fuck.

And Vedith instantly town reading him is also just plain stupid.

[JasonWazza]

Actually even better, just looked back to find Iraon's Town read on Vedith.

BTD6 is starting to look a lot better.

Maybe slightly, I feel null about him.

I really think Vedith's post 847 is town-aligned though.

Before this he is sold on Vedith being scum.

Legit one post sold him enough to neighborize Vedith?

[JasonWazza]

Bleh me and murder are the deciding votes.....

[JasonWazza]

Hey Plot, is there any reason Mala hasn't posted anything?

Because it has been a week since Mala said she would get to this.

[JasonWazza]

mind posting it in thread?

[JasonWazza]

It's the weekend, so i will be up a little longer at least. (it falls at like 7:30am here, so it's not the worst time for it to land, but i'm not sure i will be awake for it.)

[JasonWazza]

Nobody else will move their vote unless you move your vote first. If you don't do anything now, MangaofDelusion will return and spam rhetoric and I will get lynched, even though I'm confirmed as town-aligned!

Dude posting like this will get you lynched.

Also, you need to move your vote regardless, so shut up and vote BTD.

[JasonWazza]

Why do you think you are confirmed town ira? Because of your neighborhood name?

Yes, I already said... It is obvious that no scum-aligned neighborizer would be given such flavor.

And you have been told this is horse shit, because it is.

[JasonWazza]

Yeah i think i'm inclined to lynch Iraon here.

Iraon seems like he is more just trying to discredit everything thrown his way for no reason.

Not to mention the look of BTD's wagon is disgusting.

[JasonWazza]

Hint: it takes me AND murder to get a hammer off (assuming no one changes to iraon.)

[JasonWazza]

UNVOTE: Fate
VOTE: Iraonavp

[JasonWazza]

Yes, and it is primarily the fault of people like JasonWazza for not seizing the opportunity to shape their destiny...

How is this my fault?

[JasonWazza]

And this is why i want to have you lynched.

You're just calling MoI stupid(/delusional) rather then addressing his legitimate points.

Don't know why i'm even bothering to tell you anymore, because your just flailing scum at this point.

[JasonWazza]

Jason, do you get to choose what kind of fruit you send out, and if so is there significance in the kind you sent us?

--P

No, or if i do, it was not informed to me.

If you read back to when me and Nacho claimed it, you will see my specifics as to me crumbing it previously.

@Mods: I said this in my PM, but i will double it down here, i am V/LA till thursday.

[JasonWazza]

I'm here but not in a position to be reading up and posting.

I will read up at some point tomorrow.

[JasonWazza]

I just want to point this out to everyone, if there is an Arson, it's very possible that the reason Murder has claimed his bullshit is that the arson is prepped with enough people to kill.

I don't believe Murder.

I am the Salesman of Char, and i am a survivor.

And i can confirm with Ank that scum likely get to choose a guise (as i got the same and chose light.)

And as a note, i have a side note on my Fruit vending, i have to choose what alignment i am giving the fruit out as (it doesn't change my alignment showing) because basically Light people won't buy from the black market and dark people won't buy from a normal market or some shit.

VOTE: Murdercat

[JasonWazza]

Vedith, it would be great if you learned to read

[JasonWazza]

Basically.

To Light/Dark cops i appear as Light.

I am confirming what Ank said that Mafia likely get to choose their guise in these cases, as i as a survivor got to do the same.

I am calling Murder Scum, because 7/4/2 can't apply with me being a survivor.

Murder should be scum to everyone else, because that claim is opportunistic as fuck, and doesn't make sense in a town with what we have.

If murder is telling the truth, we are an informed majority, vs a informed minority.

Murder lying is easily explainable as scum, as they know that extra people will claim light, because the game is likely fairly split, and they just make all the scum team claim dark to support Murder's claim.

I'd suggest that the scum team didn't take into account what happens if a survivor is present.

[JasonWazza]

Vedith, it would be great if you learned to read

Oh yeah!
Angry scum here.

As a survivor, why would you need to choose? You would win with either side, that's the point of a survivor.

So yeah, Jason is scum light I have been saying

ALL

game.

God you really are just blatantly an idiot aren't you?

[JasonWazza]

We aren't lynching you.

We are lynching the scum Murder, then honestly any of the light claims are likely confirmed.

[JasonWazza]

And i'm calling you an idiot, because your saying just because you can have a no result, i am a liar.

Your logic is just fucking terrible.

[JasonWazza]

Hint: If there is an arson, and town has fairly obvious evidence there is, that means that there is 2 people primed.

Murder is pushing for a random light lynch and knows that with the 2 primed members they get a win off that.

WE HAVE TO LYNCH MURDER.

I'm off for now, and i trust the town is smart enough here with this information to just lynch murder.

[JasonWazza]

Vedith, murder is lying scum your thinking too hard.

[JasonWazza]

why the fuck would I claim 7-4-2 unless I was town

Your trying to argue this, that is cute.

First off lets assess the current real situation.

we have 8 alive, i'm guessing you truthfully claimed the 2 scum part, so there is 2 scum, there is 5 town (i'd argue that the real townies, there are 3 light and 2 dark) and 1 survivor (me)

This makes the game start at 5/5/2/1 (which sounds a lot more realistic.)

Not just this, but we have more knowledge.

3. Magna, Light Town N2, N5, N8 Loyal Motivator, was found dead Night 3.

This is the only kill that has been seen, we have information within the town that there is a poisoner and a Arson.

This makes the Poisoner Even-nighted (likely, i doubt they would get a hell of a lot of kills) and an arson who is Odd Nighted.

Now this means that the Arson has 2 people Primed.

Now lets go into today.

Light town gets lynched, to your knowledge the towns are 3/2 (they are really 2/2 but you didn't know i was survivor.) meaning that with the stuff you have, you are basically in an auto win situation.

Fact is you are scum, your claim was hoping that it would just be believed, and you would auto win off the back of the play.

Boom bitch, you been caught, and it's all because you didn't take into account the possibility of third party.

[JasonWazza]

Is anyone going to be really upset if Ira dies? Plus he's claimed light and we lynched dark yesterday so dark should hate flipping him if he's town and light shouldn't worry too bad about it because we flipped dark yesterday.

Also i want to bring up this quote.

Does anyone really believe the Murdercat that said this actually knew that the setup was 7/4 in terms of town?

[JasonWazza]

Fact is both scum have claimed dark, to make it seem like both scum are in the light side, because the town would truthfully claim to be Light sided.

Why would any Scum have claimed Light at this juncture?

Because at this point, we have 4 claimed "Light" sided people.

[JasonWazza]

BTW guys the scum team is Murder + Fate/BTD

[JasonWazza]

/FA sorry i kinda didn't notice Fire had put himself in a different section.

[JasonWazza]

Yeah it's Murder and BTD for sure.

[JasonWazza]

Because what you are suggesting is going to give scum the win.

[JasonWazza]

Is anyone going to be really upset if Ira dies? Plus he's claimed light and we lynched dark yesterday so dark should hate flipping him if he's town and light shouldn't worry too bad about it because we flipped dark yesterday.

Also i want to bring up this quote.

Does anyone really believe the Murdercat that said this actually knew that the setup was 7/4 in terms of town?

I got my result night 3. Jason is going through my iso trying to discount me, he isn't trying to solve the game, he's painting a picture.

Your actually an idiot, the picture is painted because the picture exists right now, and honestly, the only reason i painted this picture is because it's there.

Honestly i was half tempted to keep my mouth shut, but didn't like the 50/50 sort of chance i had to not be arsoned.

Not to mention, town has proof that your basically full of shit, but you know.

And seems amazingly convenient for Murder to get results this late doesn't it?

Oh by the way murder, who pray tell am i scum with?

Because right now according to your horse shit, it's one of Vedith/Snarky/Ank.

All of which make no real sense.

[JasonWazza]

And again, Anyone who can explain the logic of Murder's role gets a cookie.

Why the fuck would town have full knowledge of the game?

Town knows there is a poisoner.
Town knows there is an Arson.

Town wouldn't know the exact layout of the game state, that is something scum would know if anything.

[JasonWazza]

I miss Nacho, at least he had a fucking brain in this town.

[JasonWazza]

No your forgetting that your just trying to buddy me in case i actually manage to pull this murder lynch off.

But that requires Vedith to actually realize he has a chance at winning the game, and that the numbers Murder says is horse shit.

But no Vedith is more intent on continuing to have tunneled a GOD DAMN SURVIVOR SINCE DAY 1.

[JasonWazza]

THERES AN ARSONIST WE CANT JUST "GO TO LYLO"

Like it or not we are in MYLO.

Everyone needs to remember, towns get removed at one player.

The town has a total of 3 effective players to kill.

[JasonWazza]

Murder i am just going to double check, because i still kinda like Vedith for scum, you have read your role properly haven't you?

[JasonWazza]

Yes then at best we have a 50/50 assuming we know the scum players.

And even less chance if it's only out of a group.

[JasonWazza]

And again Ira didn't have a thing that made it only light.

[JasonWazza]

No one has answered this yet.

What incentive does scum Jason have for claiming Survivor?

Also, Vedith, Snarky, and Ankamius should confirm their Light claim or back down. If any of them are fakeclaiming, they should claim the truth now. Murdercat's numbers don't add up.

Scum has to doubt cast me to win

No scum has to try and force a lynch on the light townies to win.

I'm just trying to save my own ass because i was worried i was arsoned.

[JasonWazza]

Fate, Snarky and Fire, all you 3 need to start making proper votes.

Murder and me are the only logical votes for today.

[JasonWazza]

and theres definitely scum between Jason/BTD on the Murder wagon

If you believe Murder then BTD can't be scum (it has to be both within the light town claims)

[JasonWazza]

It's 1 day till deadline, why should someone unvote?

[JasonWazza]

Hell you saying that only makes sense if Vedith is scum.

[JasonWazza]

Seriously, BTD is second scum with murder, this is easy people.

[JasonWazza]

Murdercat is town for his play though.

but fruit vendor kind of makes sense for a survivor because people don't like to lynch fruit vendors and scum usually have more threatening nightkill targets.

ugh mafia's hard.

--P

Just so we are Clear Murder, he hasn't made a decision as to which he believe's, you saying otherwise is horseshit.

Fact is, Murder is lying, and hell has said that him trying to lynch someone who was conf-townable is a good thing just because the Conf-town is town reading (His play mind you)

I have facts for Murder being scum, all he has is AtE.

And let's face it, his numbers are bullshit, and made for this scenario to have appeared, he just didn't count on him being called out due to a Survivor being in play.

He wanted a lynch on a townie, to win the game.

And once we would have lynched a Light town and failed to kill of light town, it would have been extremely obvious what had happened.

Murder is clearly scum, you guys need to vote him or lose the game.

Hell look at my play, i was playing survivor.

I think Snarky did a VCA and it showed me on every lynch, and that is because i am pro-lynch as that gives me a better chance of surviving to end game, whether the person is scum or not.


Fuck i miss Nacho and i am kicking his ass for that replace out once this game is done.

[JasonWazza]

Like legitmately no one is questioning how easy it is to just make a light lynch go through today by what Murder did.

And fact is what Murder claimed as being the town count really doesn't make any sense with the powers that the light town would have.

And again, why would;
a) Any of the light townies that are claimed be my partner
b) Light town be so pathetic compared to Dark town.

[JasonWazza]

Wait did BTD really not claim alignment?

[JasonWazza]

Well you screwed yourselves have fun.

[JasonWazza]

my replacement was a pretty sweet upgrade!

I'd rather the Nacho 1.0

[JasonWazza]

It was I agree

sorry if anyone felt they had less chance to win again. I still beleive the power of factions were like Dark=Light >> Mafia or at least Dark > Light >> Mafia

But its ok if your not agreed Its not a fact. its something everyone can have different correct ideas about.

I personally don't think Mafia is all that weak, sure we get started in the killing later than normal, but once we get killing, the Town falls really quick.

The main thing is just surviving to about N4 (hell, I didn't even manage to survive for my second kill)

The main reason Mafia is weak, is things like the Informed townie, which works against Scum extremely hard, because if that person survives, you back scum right into the fucking corner (And the only reason we got out of that corner happened to be Vedith forgetting his actual alignment).

And it's not like we know this role existed or anything (let alone we didn't have any knowledge of the 7/4 between the towns.)

My main qualm is that town (specifically dark) has more info then scum, sure it only occurs at D4, but that really just isn't right.

Hell if we had known it was 7/4, i would have fought fairly heavily against the Iraon lynch, and would have suggested being split into the 2 towns, rather then both in one.

And yeah Light town is weak as fuck, and that is all through the dead topic.

[JasonWazza]

And yeah Light town is weak as fuck, and that is all through the dead topic.

And as an added to this point, Light managed to be put in a lose-lose scenario, From

1

Light Lynch (the other kill on light was my poison kill).

And honestly at the time it happened, let's be honest, even if light wanted to stop a lynch, they have to go against a 5 manned dark team, and a 2 manned scum team, to stop the lynch, which only requires 6 to lynch.

You can't honestly say that light is balanced when even 1 lynch on them can cause a complete loss to occur (with no chance of winning)

[JasonWazza]

it would probably be like 45% Dark Town, 25% Mafia, 30% Light Town.

Personally i don't believe that Light town even really had a 30% chance to win, Personally i would say it would be 50/30/20 (D/M/L)

Honestly Mafia had a better chance to win because we didn't have to rely on lynches, Light actually had to rely on lynching dark town and then mafia in a more realistic world because of the numbers disadvantage.

[JasonWazza]

Yeah just try not to ask for so much help, no offense but it was kinda annoying.

Day talk doesn't mean you get advice on every little move you do, because you can easily look like scum in that case (coached by another player and not having "real" reads).