Mini 1886: Accounting Mafia [Normal] [GAME OVER]

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

FIRST EVER FIRST

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I haven't read the OP yet but I think we vote for the set up before we RVS

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

VOTE: Accounts Payable

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I wanted to see what you would do. I naked voted Accounts Payable set up to see if you would bugger me about why I voted that set up; which could indeed bring up meaningful discussion and possible alignment indicative statements or go the route of pestering me about a semantic argument that won't help you or really anyone for the matter.

Let me explain why 13 is bad.

Accountant: Hey gin, you said you didn't read but knew a thing
Gin: Haven't read the OP thoroughly
Accountant: Oh, okay.
End of discussion

Why should I have wasted my time answering that?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

It was inevitable that you were going to ask follow up questions, what I wanted to know was simply what you were more concerned about.

I also explained that both scenario's left me open for questioning by you. What bothered me is that you focused on what was trivial over something with in-game meaning behind it.

What it told me is that you didn't care about why I make a game decision that will affect us for the next month or two, but just wanted to kick up some dust.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Also unless I'm mistaken cash gives us a named townie from the get go.

I don't see that saying in Cash but I looked back at and noticed there's 1 less scum in Cash than there is in AP.

VOTE: Cash

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Every single one of you fuckers had better start talking right now; because not ALL of you can be the scumteam... And yet you voted for a ~33% or worse town win rate.

Well this wasn't blown out of proportion

Also apply Occum's Razor before making statements like you did in this post.

You got multiple assumptions, first being that 3/4 voting for AP is indeed the scum team(ignoring the fact that this also means the first 4 people to post had all 3 scum in it); second that we did the research on which setup's win rates are high; third, assuming I know what mountainous is; and to top it off, assuming that Accountant and I, who switched our votes to Cash after hearing why Cash was better, is somehow still pushing for Accounts Payable.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Let me have a discussion before I judge a slot, mkay?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

>_>

The shit I get voted for

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Kuroi do you expect me to take that accusation seriously?

I don't get how I'm taking away from your RVS, you're free to go vote because someone's avatar is cute and I'll just try to solve the game.

So it's agreed, I'll go make content you'll inevitably use later on and you can be a meme for a day.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I too have listened to the correct path

VOTE: Accountant

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Hiro and are I in thread Mason's for today.

?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Do you role play a doggo?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

hiss

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

It's snooter or Snek

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I'll just try to solve the game.

Three posts later you sheep a reasonless vote on me.

You're no better than Kuroi.

Accounto

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

PEdit: You're proving my point even more there.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Gin, are you Town?

Did you find another town tell or you going to try a different tactic?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Accountant stop asking for Pine's read on me, that's what I'm doing

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Picked up on a Town tell. I'm keeping this one to myself, I don't want you to be able to fabricate it when you're scum.

DAMNIT PINE

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

That seriously doesn't make me trust you :/

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Oh fine. Want to know what the Towntell is?

I need to know you're not bullshitting me.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

OH SHIT I GET IT

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

It's never too early to go after The One True Scumtell.

What is this secret fruit >_>

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Being honest I don't think much of it at all

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

What do you expect me to say? I'm not going to push Accountant going "oh I bet you could scum hunt using it" *sticks tongue out and goes na-na na-na boo boo*

Also I do have reads, although weak, they are in fact there.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I expected you to give a 500-word wallpost about why that post could only possibly come from scum and how we should quicklynch accountant right now.

I don't think you realize I can do it.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Fuck it, I'm doing it for the lolz

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

The food tell sounds like BS. I think Pine is town.

For the record, I still don't have trust on Pine, he has a record of buddying me in Large 200, Micro 672, and a marathon game with Firebringer, point being is that every time it was a scum/town Pine/me game, Pine has stated that he caught a town tell.

Now in this game, Pine said he caught a town tell >_>

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

For people that want to see references in what I'm talking about.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p8880413

Gin is probably Town, I caught what I think is a towntell.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

189-190, am I crazy or is this something valid? >_>

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Normally I don't like to go off of gut reads but given the dynamics of Pine/I's past experience I feel that I can trust the gut for the reason I stated above.

L-2
VOTE: Pine

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Also more of the gut comes off of reading his tones.

As scum Pine'll go "DAYVIG SUCKA" with that kinda attitude and it pinged me when he was like "I'm the towniest town that ever towned. expect when im not. mofo." and the "booya" from a bit further than the original comment.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Infinity, the dude has an affinity for asking questions, asking for your reads, and just questions that seem like they're poking at you, when he's town. As of current I'm getting that vibe from him so until I can analyze what he pushes and what he's actually trying to accomplish, I'm currently okay with sharing it with him.

As for Accountant, there is something there that I haven't quite figured out yet. It's a feeling of doubt about the slot and I got a hint of distaste on her vote on Pine. I think the part that I don't feel right with is that it wasn't "Accountant found this scummy by Pine," it was "Accountant sheeps hito and Cabd who seem strong town"

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Second Aside: Accountant prefers non-gendered pronouns.

Like Math, I've given up correcting people for it, at least in games. Way too distracting.

Just going to go off-topic about it once, I mainly just list Accountant's name when describing an action committed but whenever I do use "her" it's because of the avatar and that's really it. I think it's understood that there's an implied apology whenever it's committed as it should be known I don't do it out of malicious intent

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Gin, ok but there's some WIFOM involved there with such an obvious tell

Why would town Pine have motive to do a personal scumtell of his then use WIFOM to justify it?

Maybe he legitimately found a towntell this time. Scum!pine might be more careful than to do it 3 times in a row...maybe not though.

Counter example: Doubling down and claiming the same fakeclaim each time is something I've done as scum. (IIRC fakecclaimed hider three or four times in a row)

I went back and actually found an inconsistency in it. Pine told me the town tell was how I reacted to him telling me he found a town tell.

However that wasn't the case in Large 200 because he never expanded on that, and in marathon game, he read me as town, then in LyLo said he caught a town tell earlier.

So I don't get how this personal town tell hunt by him is what he says it is if he never used it as described in the past.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

N_M, what did you learn?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

N_M, what did you learn?

Nothing

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Also, if you're N_M and think Accountant and shannon are scum, you are doing a "reaction test" where you share a wagon with your top scum read when your secondary scum read has their vote in play and could hammer. That's a pretty big risk to incur, especially when the reaction test didn't seem to have any objective or influence any reads.

Adding to this, if nothing was actually learned I see "reaction tests" as a cop out to say why you did something bad and try to get heat off.


With N_M's reaction test, nothing was learned.

With mine in the beginning, mine had a clear cut purpose that I laid out with Accountant and we discussed it.

VOTE: N_M

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Nothing like trying to play mafia in a subway at Walmart and the fire alarm blasts rushing people out

Also, with Pine, I'm at the point where my gut just sent signal flares saying Pine is scum. The only thing is I have paranoia that because I've never had a town town game game with Pine, it sets itself up for confirmation bias.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I'll try to answer questions but it'll be slow because phone posting.

Hito, I think your point is valid in why it only works after a flip but since my brain already decided Pine!scum, it just moved onto finding his partners.

There's also the fact I don't like the bit about the reaction test. If I do end up thinking I was conf!biased on Pine, this is a legitimate thing I have a problem with that doesn't take into account past experiences.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

since my brain already decided Pine!scum, it just moved onto finding his partners.

What

is it just me or should this really not be a thing on page 12

Gin you're better than this. You know pine, so you can engage with him and sort him. Explain.

Accountant, do you have a read on me?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p8880367
Pine's first post in game

2 minutes later(check the time stamps) I said Pine was scum. That was a pure, unadulterated gut read.

Wonder what Pine's alignment was that game >_>

i don't think you actually comprehend how much my gut said Pine!scum and how much I allow myself to trust it

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Yes I know there is a logical inconsistency in me hard gut reading Pine and not voting but I think it's also foolish to not try and fully explore the game. If I push a quick lynch and he ends up being town, and that was the only one we pushed, what did we actually learn from the lynch?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

What is mountainous?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Cabd, you're reaching a point where it's going into lamist territory, we get it

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Hey Kuroi, you haven't much talked to me or about me and haven't voted me since the game game started, why so?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I'm not the only one starting to get suspicious of the amount of times Kuroi drops "i might be scum" bombs?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Accountant, there's a difference in going *It's early game and I'll sheep these guys and vote with them because 'they've shown to be townie'* and *It's early game and I see people who I think are pretty town voting someone so I should go investigate myself*

You did the former and just acted like a blind sheep, add onto this that the tell Hito was referring too, you thought was BS.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

It gives me bad vibes even now that he's taking it out of RVS.

Spoiler:

Accountant are you scum?

Nope. Are you?

Yes. I mean, no. I mean - oh, I wasn't asked, was I? Well this is sure awkward.

Hey Kuroi, you haven't much talked to me or about me and haven't voted me since the game game started, why so?

Scum buddies have to distance themselves.

kuroi....

might be scum

No fucking shit.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I'll share my read, I think it's either a glorious all-town wagon or Gin is scum. No solid reasoning there, just gut feel.

>_>

You just said I got townie points

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

It gives me bad vibes even now that he's taking it out of RVS.

Spoiler:

Accountant are you scum?

Nope. Are you?

Yes. I mean, no. I mean - oh, I wasn't asked, was I? Well this is sure awkward.

Hey Kuroi, you haven't much talked to me or about me and haven't voted me since the game game started, why so?

Scum buddies have to distance themselves.

kuroi....

might be scum

No fucking shit.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

UNVOTE:

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

There's scum in Accountant, Pine, Kuroi, Bork.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

How do you not town read a woof? Let alone 3 woofs

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

mafia is a game about logic.

no

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

@Infinity: "Off" isn't a read, it's a word so vague as to be near meaningless. What exactly is off? Which post gives you the strongest sense of offness?

I don't want to be rude and but in but usually posts that contain 'fuck' are usually followed up by an 'off' feeling

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Kuroi, do your reads come from saying jokes are scummy?

That's top notch work

/s

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

As if this moment, I'm starting to think it was actually townie for N_M to say he learned nothing. Something about the brutal honesty even under scrutiny gives me town vibes.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Infinity, does the honesty from N_M make sense if I relate it to how I formed my town read on AElla was Spine in our last game together?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Can we not do the quote wars? It gets chunky and I start to glaze them

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Can we not do the quote wars? It gets chunky and I start to glaze them

Sorry. I pretty much only post from my phone so it's just convenient, but I can make an effort to avoid giant quote trees from now.

<3

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

ME

No ones talked about me much and I got an ego that needs to be satiated

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Oh no, I meant an opinion on me lol

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

His vote on Pine also was after I started pressuring him to have reads that make sense and push them.

THIS IS A FUCKING LIE TITUS

VOTE: pine

Let's see where this goes, I'll come back to shannon.

Gin, ok but there's some WIFOM involved there with such an obvious tell

So did we already vote for a setup? Fuck RL. Not reading this tonight.

Thanks everyone who voted normal. I suck at mountainous unless scum.

So you got Infinity voting Pine and disregarding shannon at 200

You make a random post at 167, not talking to anyone.

Your next post is 300 and still doesn't relate to Infinity.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

My point is that she's claiming you only voted Pine after she pressured you and I'm wiping the argument the fuck out because she had no involvement in your original Pine vote.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Titus, you're only point here is that Infinity pushed Pine, only because you stepped in and we both know that to be, for a fact false.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Titus, you're only point here is that Infinity pushed Pine, only because you stepped in and we both know that to be, for a fact false.

No. My point is Infinity hasn't pushed anyone. Dude, read.

I have. I fact checked your shit. You're in the wrong.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Are you trying to seriously use emotions from the past to manipulate my reads on Infinity?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Yes. Infinity jyst popped on and suddenly scumread Pine when I started pushing on him.

You start the argument saying Infinity only scum read Pine when you pushed him.

I proved that he scum read Pine before you even started getting into the game.

This argument, is wrong.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Hey Titus, are we friends this game?

I hope so. I TR you pretty hard.

Pork why?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

The food tell, just saw it in a previous game, it's a legit tell.

Pine doing the thing where he "finds" a town tell on me, he's done it again and given the reason why he does it, I actually proved he was lying in the way he applied the reading.

I also described his tone and how it pairs up with his normal scum games.

Oh and let's not forget he kinda pushed N_M but hasn't touched up on that since he's been here.

It's a legit wagon and the only thing you say is "it's crap" for the reasons given when you won't take the time to prove he's town.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Titus lay out a specific town case for Pine, then? Not a "not scum" case but a case for being town specifically.

I did. Same difference.

Nope

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Isn't wagon analysis supposed to be done, with flips? and only so when there's a scum flip with a non guilty?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Thanks. So let's establish the groundwork and procedures before determining anything.

1) Gather but do not assess reliability of claims. If you can get in without developing reads but being nice to people do that. The idea is to get data but NOT bias.

2) Get a scum lynch without a guilty. (If we don't have that, this becomes less reliable.)

3) Establish expectations.
a) There is no clear ONE SCUM ACTION. Certain things are more indicative.
b) There are actions that are more or less town indicative. For instance, being a scum wagon suggests town.
c) Aggregate these factors. Then, make a conclusion.
d) People may disagree, but the disagreement should come from the motivation of the scumteam at that point. A wrong lynch should be able to recalibrate the theory is the hope.

I don't understand why you're trying to analyze wagons before 2 has even happened, let alone on D1 without a single lynch flip >_>

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

@Hito, you kinda maybe quoted 288 that explained your concern about me in those 4 quotes

That reads list, my scum reads. Worth mentioning I threw in bork to see what people would think of low content posters and Accountant seems to value bork of All Alone so that ended up working like I wanted it too.

The reversal on N_M? Yeah, I'm allowed to do that. My brain can't think of literally every scenario at an instance, I'll be at work and then remember/think of something. Also you failed to quote where I discussed the reversal on N_M with Infinity due to me previously correctly town reading someone for "brutal honesty under scrutiny." If you have a concern, I've already explained it ahead of time to avoid these moments of confusion you seem to have.


I do have a follow up question. You seem to have a problem with myself changing a read on a player. Given that I've thoroughly explained in my posts how I have developed my reads and when they change; what do you actually find damning about that?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

@Another Hito, do you think it is wise or arrogant to have a strong gut read on a player and lynch them before they get a chance to produce any meaningful content?

If I were to be voting Pine and never took it off, he would have been hammered already.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

easily faked?

I'm confused on what you're asking me

P-Edit: It's because I think just the opposite of that, I see scum coming up with some pansy excuse.

I tend to scum hunt and town hunt using past experiences. In this case, N_M reminded me of a player I just finished a game with.

Spoiler: Read this and you should see where I'm coming from when relating it to N_M

There are things here and there that I noted, I think MoI's argument with Elsa was kind of dumb and I didn't see why he was harping on it


Massive's vote on RS didn't look too good to me either, like RS mentioned earlier


Other than that nah

It's the blatant honesty in this post.

It's obvious I'm giving him shit for it so a scum mentality would to be looking back at the game and work a case on someone and tell me some scum hunting stuff.

It's the fact that he admits that he hasn't found anyone scummy just feels genuine to me.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

But do you actually have a substantive disagreement with my logic in 708?

I'm currently reading through Titus vs Infinity and my eyes are starting to glaze over.

Yes, because when you apply the logic in 78, you get voted like 262.

More than likely I would have still pushed N_M if I didn't have the past experience to think of the reverse being true as well.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

But do you actually have a substantive disagreement with my logic in 708?

I'm currently reading through Titus vs Infinity and my eyes are starting to glaze over.

Yes, because when you apply the logic in 78, you get voted like 262.

More than likely I would have still pushed N_M if I didn't have the past experience to think of the reverse being true as well.

...what does this mean

1) I disagree with logic
2) Did a case in point in first sentence
3) Stated the reason why I changed my own personal thinking of the slot given what I just stated.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Try this version

But do you actually have a substantive disagreement with my logic in 708?

I'm currently reading through Titus vs Infinity and my eyes are starting to glaze over.

Yes, because when you apply the logic in 708, you get voted like 262.

More than likely I would have still pushed N_M if I didn't have the past experience to think of the reverse being true as well.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I agree to a certain extent. I don't think it's bet the game worthy but mentally I'm giving it a town lean.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Her point is that you're premise is that town will never defend a scum player. Which is faulty because it happens all the time.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Hito, I take it you were satisfied with how our discussion went?

@Mod, Limited Access and its TBD, I've gotten sick and I surprisingly value bed rest over Mafia

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

@Hito, because you don't value my opinion like a smart person would? >_>

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Bork put Pine at L-2

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Well assuming that you think I'm scum that was bussing Pine and then backed off because "it looks like he won't be lynched."

However, in your eyes that's not the condemning part, for you it's that I'm "pushing" a slot yet not voting them which people tend to associate with scum going for mislynches but trying to not take the blame for it.

Now for why you're ignoring me, it most likely goes under the guidelines mastina follows of ignoring her scum reads during the game.

If I'm wrong, well okay tell me.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

So why is Anti scum?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

IF YOU CANT PROVE SOMETHING THEN HOW DOES IT MAKE SOMEONE SCUM

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I once voted my null reads >_>

Who people vote don't matter, it's the push you analyze

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Camn replaces All Alone. Please welcome her.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I'm conflicted as I like the Pine wagon atm but I don't like Accountant and Kuroi on it

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

you should read as it's not the bad actually. There's a not a lot of shitposting.

As unbiased as possible, we were voting for the setup, started out as Accounts Payable set up and then swung to Cash set up after Hito and Cabd drove it hard.

Then a Pine wagon formed. It's been here ever since the game started.

There have been a couple pokes and tickles around different players but a lot of it has been on Pine.

Also, this part is biased, but I think Hito is being a dumb and scum reading me. I came to the conclusion that because I have a strong gut read on Pine being scum but dicking around and not voting, it looks like I'm Pine's partner pushing him but not trying to actually ded him.

For that I couldn't care less because Hito said I wasn't allowed to push N_M based on pre-flip associative even tho he scum reads me on pre-flip associatives. It's cool tho >_>

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

unlynched?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I want this answered before I vote.

Spoiler:

Gin, ok but there's some WIFOM involved there with such an obvious tell

Why would town Pine have motive to do a personal scumtell of his then use WIFOM to justify it?

Maybe he legitimately found a towntell this time. Scum!pine might be more careful than to do it 3 times in a row...maybe not though.

Counter example: Doubling down and claiming the same fakeclaim each time is something I've done as scum. (IIRC fakecclaimed hider three or four times in a row)

I went back and actually found an inconsistency in it. Pine told me the town tell was how I reacted to him telling me he found a town tell.

However that wasn't the case in Large 200 because he never expanded on that, and in marathon game, he read me as town, then in LyLo said he caught a town tell earlier.

So I don't get how this personal town tell hunt by him is what he says it is if he never used it as described in the past.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Hito, nothing changes until I get an answer for 889.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

@Mod, prod Pine

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

You don't mind pointing me in the direction of a game, do you?

Examples of Pine not-shitty as scum?
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=69088
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=69902

HEY I WAS THERE!

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

this after food

FOOD TELL FOOD TELL LYNCH THIS SCUMLORD

+1

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Camn, i caught Pine doing the lie.

Gimme that good good on 213

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

and considering I wish to abide by the Lynch all Liars policy when it's not a pro-town gambit, I want Pine to be deaded >_>

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Camn, i caught Pine doing the lie.

Gimme that good good on 213

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

For fucks sake can someone answer 213 before I start swinging

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

That was the probability part of if Pine would do it.

213 is about solid evidence that Pine lied about how he used the method in which he finds a town tell on me. It's a buddy attempt that's become all too common with him upon me.

It's a legit case and every time I bring it up, it goes ignored and I'm getting frustrated over here.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

BUT GIN, WHY DON'T YOU VOTE PINE IF YOU THINK IT'S DAMNING

BECAUSE THIS GAME IS WHERE WE DISCUSS SHIT AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE I'M NOT BEING A FUCKING IDIOT.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

BUT LET US TALK ABOUT CAKE BECAUSE FOOD IS THE GOD TIER OF SCUM HUNTING.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I SEE GIN SHOWS GREAT INTEREST IN SORTING PINE, HENCE THE IMMENSE AMOUNT OF DISCUSSION BUT LET ME IGNORE THAT SLOT BECAUSE PRE-FLIP ASSOCIATIVE

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

wow... camn's first post was interesting and that was the only one...

You're only bored cuz you're boring.

GIN- Lets say he lied and is buddying. Pine that is.
So what?
Is that his scumgame? Make up some shit to lie to you about?
Or is he just distracted town trying to get kind of into it?
Or what?
What to do about it? Is it worth the lynch? I say we give him a day and see if this 'distraction" goes away.
Do you disagree?

>_>

He has only ever done it as scum, and post 213 states that he did this in Large 200 and in a marathon game. Albeit the links were not in 213 but I can happily give them to you.

Every time this has occurred, it has been a SvT and Pine and Gin respectively. Now, for me that was a red flag when Pine said it this game, after the 3rd time it's happened, I asked him how the "town tell works."

He told me that the town tell is by how I react to saying he found a town tell of mine. However, Pine did not apply that method in either game that this had occurred outside of this one.

So, what I find scummy is that Pine did an attempt to buddy, and his reluctant justification of the tell ended up being fabricated.


Now, you say Pine can be town by this action. I must ask how so?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I think townies, just like scum, sometimes are trying not to look scummy.
ANY action can be from town or scum early on.

BUT LETS BE CRYSTAL CLEAR-

I think Pine is scummy here.. but not because he was buddying you.. if he DIDN'T buddy you I would find that >really fucking off<. regardless of his alignment. Like. he HAS to buddy you now, no matter what he draws, right?

It's the inconsistencies in his play- I think they are scummy.
I am just a little baffled, because they are OBVIOUSLY scummy.. which is unlike him..

Which is why I can wait to chase his lynch until tomorrow. We need more content from him.. then we can choke the life out of him. He, and you, are on my list of people not to murder day 1. And you yourself don't seem that excited about it. All talk, no murdercock, ifyouknowhatimean.

I have played 8 games with Pine, this one being the 9th one.
1 game was scum both of us
The 7 other games, Pine and I have always been opposite alignments.

The games where Pine was town, he never did the town tell thing on me or really tried to buddy me at all.

So it's not

off

for Pine to not "buddy me" it's off for him to do it as town.

As for why I don't have a raging murdercock or chanting Blood for the Blood God is that I do want to give him a chance. It mainly feels like a conflict of interest because I've never actually seen Pine!town when I've been town!Gin and I really want to have that happen; but I can't, not, think he's scum.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Titus.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Shut the fuck up or leave the game. No one cares for your toxic bullshit.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

EspeciallyTheLies replaces Shannon.

LIES I TELL YOU

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

My reads are real. The product of my passing skimming of the crap you'all filled the first 35 pages with.
I am not going to manufacture something new to suit you.

I'm probably not going to re-read until, like, Day 3 when there is more context.

Damn, looks like Camn was caught up >_>

Also Kuroi, why are you trying to discredit an entire wagon on a faulty premise

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

My reads are real. The product of my passing skimming of the crap you'all filled the first 35 pages with.
I am not going to manufacture something new to suit you.

I'm probably not going to re-read until, like, Day 3 when there is more context.

Damn, looks like Camn was caught up >_>

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Damn I could go for a Kuroi lynch

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I WANT TO VOTE KUROI

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I WANT TO VOTE KUROI

+1

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Is there any reason kuroi is scum other than being very dumb though?

I can't attest to how accurate it is because I'm not looking hard into the ISO till later but it revolves a lot around that he's not actually producing quality pushes and that he's struggling as scum to find people, well scummy.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

because it works

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

You've got to be fucking kidding me. This is hilarious.

Makes fun of scum case on him instead of trying to resolve the issue >_>

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I'm glad we had this productive conversation about grammar

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

You can be online in exactly 2 hours from now. That's computer time for Gin and no midterms.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

>_>_>_>

*That awkward moment when Kuroi defends a scumbud*

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Kuroi might be scum.

Anti I <3 you.

Might?

The dude voted me for the fact that I was "taking away RVS" which was, a serious vote by him if you didn't know.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Kuroi!scum might just mean Pine!town

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Lets see a vote, my man. You in the "Not Voting" list is creeping me out.

My lady, I won't vote until I get home to a computer as I haven't throughly read what just happened

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

*Ghost vote Kuroi

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Do you think me not voting is AI, Camn? Or is just weird to you?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

VOTE: Kurio

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

VOTE: Kurio

L-2 bee tea dubs

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

pine is still scum so don't get too distracted, but at least these counterwagons aren't policy counterwagons

I agree with everyone that Kuroi's ETL vote was bad but I think his switch back on to Pine reads as pretty natural...? I don't see a scum motivation

ew

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Camn it's been 2 hours exact

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Talking about skipping RVS. I don't like how quickly you got so serious. Accountant followed suit, sure. But that's Accountant.

Why is it bad to get serious asap? Usually that's what I try to do also

1. It ruins the flow.
2. It fucks up reads.
3. It fucks up my shit.
4. Town just don't do that.

First this post.

I ask for two things I want your input on, first off why you think he would condemn me for something but give Accountant a pass,

and the second being is how legitimate do you think his reasons, 1-4 are.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

@Mod, spring break has arrived, V/LA is pointless as I can afford to sleep in fucked up cycles while sick

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Kuroi, I love you, but I couldn't care less about what you have to say at the moment, also emphasis on "couldn't." I'm talking to Camn at the moment, if you want a 1 on 1 with me you can schedule an appointment.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

He's been like this the entire game Lie, you just haven't been around to read it.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Also, sorry if I'm slow, I'm breaking a sweat by not even moving.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Hey babycakes, I'm pretty sure an event occurred that lead to those 4 votes. You should like, read it as you were actually here for it.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

And anti's pseudo-meltdown

What could possibly make Anti have that meltdown?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Also, why is it that because you think "one scum" voted on that wagon, you think "oh it's a town wagon because of a possibility that a scum player, who we don't know, might have joined the wagon.

Occum's Razor that shit.

Also regardless, if you scum read someone, you think their scum, regardless of a bus you ARE LYNCHING SCUM.

P-EDIT: Lies, my guy, why did Anti have the melt down?

Also, for myself and Accountant, it's documented that each of us respectively scum read Kuroi. Camn, you I can't remember off the top of my head, this isn't a magic wagon.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

How did Anti come off as wrong to you?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I'm calling it a night and going to a clinic but, I like your 1235 a lot from first read.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I told ya'll earlier it was bugging me how many times he would bring up "him being scum" >_>

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

However if he flips town then I'm getting Camn lynched no matter what.

Trying to chain a lynch dependent on a mislynch is repugnant. If you hammer Kuroi and he's town, we're lynching you tomorrow.

WTF IS THIS

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Oh, I thought you were accusing him of a scum move and then proceeded to do what you accused him of >_>

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

UNVOTE:

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I am making a post

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Alright, so the current case on Kuroi involves us thinking that Kuroi hard defended Camn's wagon and it was an unnecessary chainsaw.

What else?

Now that I'm no longer focusing on schooling I can go hard on analyzing shit.

The first thing I went to check is the narrative of how it went down.

Anti claimed Kuroi defended Camn with no real reason besides saying she wasn't caught up, so it was a bad vote.

Fine re-check. I've been conversing with camn a bit yesterday.

I knew I had a to-do. Thanks for reminding me, although I think you're trying to force your arguments past me rather than legitimately scum hunt.

This post, particularly the bolded made me want to actually check if this reason Kuroi gave was legitimate.

So I checked the linearity of the events and this is what I found:

I'm also looking forward to your catch up since you have more to come.

But for right now, you said Pine is too easy. Does he have a history of being lynchbait?

Looking at the bolded here, Kuroi has stated that he's looking forward to Camn's catch up.

This means Kuroi has documented that he doesn't not believe Camn has finished reading the thread.

Alright. I'll check that out when I can. Most likely tomorrow.

At least for my time, this shows that it was 10pm EST on Tuesday when Kuroi made this post.

On mobile. I'll have a proper read later

but I'm not voting camn. I see people ganging up on someone not caught up yet.

BTW Infinity, why are you so in love with me?

This post was made at 11am EST, Wednesday

. There was no posting in between it to indicate Kuroi was actively reading the thread.

Let us look at the bolded here. This means Kuroi specifically had not read the thread thoroughly.

This means that, if the night before, Kuroi thought Camn was not caught up he would continue that train of thought until he read that Camn was caught up.

For those that like to view things in post numbers, Kuroi went to bed at 970, Camn posted that she was caught up on post 1045, and finally Kuroi said he was on mobile who hasn't given a proper comb over the thread since his last post in post 1064.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Seriously...He is practically the only reason I joined this game. He gets a pass day 1. How many times do I need to say that?

HEY

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Camn, sweetie, you know that's not how I roll.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I made post 1348 and that killed the chainsaw case on Kuroi.

You're more than welcome to give me other reasons to vote Kuroi but if you fall back to that, I simply can't.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

SWEETIE

Don't slap me in the face and tell me to vote Kuroi and once I stand my ground, try to twiddle your thumbs like, "oh this was a bad idea, I'll say Kuroi had a townish moment" and then go, hey what about Infinity?


You were seriously opposed to me unvoting Kuroi, so tell me why

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

You were seriously opposed to me unvoting Kuroi, so tell me why

I want more pressure on him, not less.
I think people show their true colors at L-1.

This is a shitpost and not the N_M kind.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

deadass that was clever

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: pine

porque my croissant? lil cheese, on my croissant.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

bc i feel like it

also bc he's posting on the site but avoiding this thread

bottom part is null

The top part, expand on that. What made you switch because you were pretty heated with Kuroi

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

It's null.

I'll explain, maybe tomorrow

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Spammy wafflely asking questions is the town infinity I came to terms with

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Ever heard of Darkest Dungeons? It's addicting to say the least.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

VOTE: Pine

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

VOTE: high

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

You two are highly town read, what are you guys opinions of each other?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I'm having my doubts.

It feels like after the working papers whether I voted Pine or if I didn't vote Pine he was going to label it as scummy.

From what I recall I deduced that he scum read me for having a case on Pine but not voting, due to me having doubts and wanting to discuss the points brought up, and now that I voted, I'm no longer scummy for not voting, but for the case presented to begin with.

Damned if I do, Damned if I don't is what I'm seeing

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

@work so read sig, new rule I have to live with.

I'll be able too, at home, reference what I'm talking about.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Shannon as town, is well, lackluster. I can grab a quote where she literally goes "yeah there's some stuff going on, I'll just sit back and let you guys work it out."

If you're scum reading because no notes of a replace out, please take the nearest exit to the Road to Rome.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Quick question, I forgot how we know the IA is town :/

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Thank you

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Camn

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

assess people.

If you don't have a scum read outside of trolls.

Make a town case.

Goodnight.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I've been kicked out of my house by my Dad. i'm going to be gone for awhile.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I had the best reads in the game

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

So I'm jesus