Mini 1904: Rad Idea Mafia! (Endgame!)

[Radical Rat]

Hey guys, nice to see we're getting right into things.

Acting pro-town is not LAMIST. LAMIST usually implies a lack of content except to claim Town. Ircher is probably 3p.

Now then. I want to know the ALIGNMENTS of all three of everyone's cards. Mine were two aliens and one Town.

[Radical Rat]

Oh, also.
VOTE: SnarkySnowman

You're not getting away with lurking through this game, and you discarded Town. Starting the pressure early.

[Radical Rat]

My role is compulsive, though not necessarily negative utility.

Interesting. The only compulsive role in this setup is Vig. A Town Compulsive Vig.

So, you expect us to believe that not only did you draw three town cards, but you also thought being forced to kill, regardless of what evidence crops up during the day, was a good fit for your role.
Not happening buddy.

VOTE: Ircher

[Radical Rat]

Snarky, Tiphaine, LUV, and Gerry.

You've all discarded Town roles with a negative utility ability.
It seems to me like neg utility cards would be ideal for taking the alignment, then taking a better ability.

It's not anything damning, of course, but... interesting to note.

[Radical Rat]

You outed yourself man.

Always read the setup before claiming something like that.

Now I want an explanation as to how exactly a compulsive kill every night is good for Town.

[Radical Rat]

Frankly, I don't believe you Ircher.

[Radical Rat]

Why not?

Because I don't think you would have chosen a compulsive kill over a commute. I also think that, if you did, VT would have been a better choice to discard.

[Radical Rat]

I frankly dont believe towwn would blatantly out a vig either.

Pedit: Elabprate further.

I did not out you. YOU claimed compulsive, and it is your fault for not thinking to check before you did that.

[Radical Rat]

Why not?

Because I don't think you would have chosen a compulsive kill over a commute. I also think that, if you did, VT would have been a better choice to discard.

Oh really?

Last time I played Greatest Idea, VT discards were scummy. And vig is way more fun than commuter.

Well, I wasn't the one who said VT discards were scummy. In my view, telling scum what roles they don't need to worry about in the game is, while not inherently scummy, anti-town.

I'd buy the more fun thing if it weren't compulsive. Commuter also has better Town utility, whereas your compulsive vig essentially gives a scumteam a double kill each night.
If you're an Underdog as 1 Shot thinks, I'm okay with not lynching you until we see what the first death is, but otherwise you're on top right now.

[Radical Rat]

I'm town. And shooting people is fun; I'm shooting you N1.

Who's the LAMIST now, huh?

[Radical Rat]

Now then, I'm gonna go play a quick game of Heroes of the Storm.

Back in 45 min ~ 1 hour

[Radical Rat]

... I expected things to have occurred during my absence. I'll probably get some sleep then, and will respond to anything that happens in the morning.

[Radical Rat]

I'm town. And shooting people is fun; I'm shooting you N1.

Who's the LAMIST now, huh?

How is this LAMIST?

That was a somewhat snarky comment because Ircher had been shouting LAMIST over nothing, and when asked to explain his role choice his sole defense is "I'm Town and like murder"

[Radical Rat]

Can I get the rest of the alignments from you guys' cards?

[Radical Rat]

Can I get the rest of the alignments from you guys' cards?

Just to be clear, is this aimed at anyone specific, or the whole group?

Everyone who has not already shared. I don't need the roles, just the alignments of all three cards.

[Radical Rat]

Now then. I want to know the ALIGNMENTS of all three of everyone's cards. Mine were two aliens and one Town.

[Radical Rat]

@Mod: For the purposes of this game, does Mason mean someone is confirmed to be Town, or simply not Mafia?

[Radical Rat]

Rat, that seems like a pretty scummy thing to be digging for. Sounds like you're trying to set up crumbs to later build a case against whoever ends up being easy lynchbait.


VOTE: Radical Rat


Thoughts, anyone else?

If I do wind up using this for a case, it will be obvious that there's no wiggle room for me to just apply it to whoever.
Also, if it were scum motivated, I would have asked Jerry in private, or in the Scum PT, or in the Mason PT if I were a Mason.

I ask because in Greatest Idea, Mason is guaranteed not to be Mafia, but can be Werewolf, SK, Alien, etc.

[Radical Rat]

I need to post some on this eventually.

Whoever it ways saying it was sus to give up the town gravedigger card, sorry, but negative utility is not really a good thing to keep :/

Not for an ability, but for an alignment, yes.

The way I see it, you should use negative, or low utility cards for their alignment, so you have your choice between two decent roles. The only reason I can think of for discarding a negative utility is to be able to say, "Look, that was bad for Town and I didn't take it! I must be Town!" Unless of course you just got dealt an all around bad hand, in which case sucks for you.

[Radical Rat]

Can I get the rest of the alignments from you guys' cards?

Just to be clear, is this aimed at anyone specific, or the whole group?

Everyone who has not already shared. I don't need the roles, just the alignments of all three cards.

Sorry, no, was talking about the bit I quoted here.

Ah yes, well.
I will be happy to explain my reasoning after I get the information, but for now I'd prefer not to tell the scum what lies they need to tell.

[Radical Rat]

What was you thinking of when you saw the role?

Grave Robber

So why did you think it was a strong role?
I thought you said you was thinking a different role?

Robber and Digger are different.
Grave Robber is a synonym for Universal Backup, according to the Wiki.

[Radical Rat]

Ah miss read.
Explains that then. Then I'm happy with chickadee's original post about the roles.

Are you happy with her overall?

[Radical Rat]

I received 3 town roles.
But given if I confirm them before others both of my hidden roles are unique.

Since Radical decided to out me, I drew the following cards:

1) VT
2) Town 1-Shot Commuter
3) Town Compulsive Vigilante

I find this hard to believe. Two people got all town roles? That leaves no wiggle room for alignment, and is awfully convenient when it comes time to claim things. There's such a huge section of list that wasn't even touched that it would be a fairly safe gamble to try and claim all town choices.

I got all town roles too. I mean, obviously people are going to be lying, so i dont think that's something to scumread. the people who discarded a mafia card coulda got 2 mafia cards and took mafia as alignment. Also, I'm not sure if it would be done like this but im sure there was at least 2 people with all mafia roles, cause like what would happen if everyone chose town cards?

The cards would be redealt and we'd pick again.
Everything is entirely random, and there should be no one intentionally given three of the same alignment.

[Radical Rat]

So, I ran the numbers, and there is an approximately 0.2% chance of all four of you getting all Town.

Spoiler: Math Shenanigans

63 Town/104 Total = ~.60 chance an individual card is Town.
.6 * .6 = ~.36 chance one player draws two Town cards.
.36 * .6 = ~.22 chance one player draws three Town cards.
.22 * .22 = ~.05 chance two players draw three Town cards.
.05 * .22 = ~.01 chance three players draw three Town cards.
.01 * .22 = ~.002 chance four players draw three Town cards.

While this is still technically possible, I'm confident in saying at LEAST one of you is lying so far. And that doesn't even take into account that each card can only be drawn once, so the pool of Town cards shrinks as you go.

[Radical Rat]

so there could be literally 2 mafia right now?

Yes. There could be anywhere from 1 to 6 total scum among all teams.

Sly, why would you not wanna be a werewolf hooker? that's like.. a really good role lmao. ust curious

Yes, it is a good role. Maybe it's better than my role, maybe not. Now that I understand things better, I may have picked differently. But, I may have chosen exactly the same.

what didn't you understand? i mean, it was kinda clear when the mod explained to us in PM

My first card was Werewolf Hooker
I thought that was my alignment choices (Werewolf alignment) and (Hooker alignment)
So I picked Hooker(alignment) with the skill of one of my other cards.

After an explanation, I discarded what I saw as the Werewolf alignment card. I didn't realize I could use that card as a Hooker role was when I discarded it, though I'm sure it was explained properly. I didn't even know what the Hooker role was. My other 2 cards were town and I did know what the role is that I picked.

Hold up. You're saying you picked the Werewolf Hooker for your alignment? Then also discarded it? I don't understand.

[Radical Rat]

I find it very unsettling that this many people seem not to have bothered to read the setup before playing.

Sly's confusion seems genuine, if also ridiculous, and I don't think anyone would have intentionally claimed compulsive vig on D1. I've also seen a couple of other things indicating that folks have no idea what the role list is, or how picking cards worked.

IF YOU HAVE NOT READ THE SETUP, DO SO NOW

If you're gonna solve the game, you need to know what game you're playing.

[Radical Rat]

It's not unsettling. It's a personality thing just like the opening discards.

Yeah, a personality thing that leads to D1 hardclaims and thinking "Hooker" is an alignment.

You wouldn't play Chess without knowing how to move the pieces, so why play Mafia without even knowing what the pieces are in the first place?

[Radical Rat]

My intention is not to insult people, only to make sure that people know what they're playing.

I'm fine if questions pop up and things need clarified, but people should at least look at the setup first.

I do apologize if I'm sounding harsh though. I don't mean any of this as a personal attack, only that I really don't want people not reading to be reason we lose.

[Radical Rat]

It does say RBer on the setup page. Which is my point.

I get you made a mistake, just. Read the setup now so you don't make similar errors when it actually matters is all I'm saying.

[Radical Rat]

Then you aren't included in "If you haven't read the setup yet"

[Radical Rat]

Not memorize, no. But at least read through it once so you have some idea.

Personally, I have it open next tab for easy reference whenever a claim comes up, but I know not everyone's going to do that. I do expect familiarity with your own role, and at least a basic comprehension of the overall setup however.

[Radical Rat]

I chose ascetic neighbor over 2shot bulletproof? well fuck my life.

ircher pulling a shitty-ass gambit and his claim is scummy as fuck. but also it's ircher and he legit thinks he might be helping the town by pulling this shit. but also his claim is shit. idk.

This is why I was asking about Mason.

So, have you guys been discussing anything worthwhile yet?

[Radical Rat]

McMenno isn't a mason?

McMenno is a mason. But masons aren't alignment confirmed in this game, so it's basically just a normal hood.

[Radical Rat]

There are only two ascetic roles.
Town Ascetic, which was discarded, and Mafia Ascetic Mason.

Mason isn't a "Murder the entire Town" role, so I kept quiet but asked the mod to know if he was conftown.

[Radical Rat]

I'm not so much irritated as I am just worried. The less people know about the setup, the easier it is for scum to fake things without being caught.

I'm doing my best of course, but I can't keep track of everything on my own, and I can die at any moment. The more Townies who familiarize themselves with the setup the fewer options scum have to lie.

[Radical Rat]

Mason is a dangerous role to fakeclaim.
It requires there to be no actual masons in the game that could disprove it, and there are several mason roles in the deck. So, unless such a mason Does come forward, I see no reason to doubt the claim.

As for odds of there being only one scum.... Well, just under 40% of the cards are non-Town alignments, but because most of us had a choice in our alignment, it's beyond my ability to actually calculate likelihood of scum numbers. For what it's worth, 40% of 13 is 5.2, so 5 scum would be most likely without free will as a variable.

[Radical Rat]

Welcome aboard Riley!
3p means 3rd Party, which is just any alignment not on a team. Serial Killer and Survivor for instance. His role fits well with that I think.

Why shouldn't I be asking about alignments?
It's vague enough that the really strong PRs remain undercover, but there's plenty of reads to be gathered from how people answer that question.


Side note: I just realized I got post 69. Nice.

[Radical Rat]

Think what you want. It was a genuine mistake. I read through too quickly.

Yet you had time to go back and quote a post from page 1 in 106?

True story, and a bit sloppy but here's how that played out:

I went to quote that and had it up, and then left to do something else, not game related. Like literally walked away from my computer. Came back, went to do something on my computer, so I opened another tab. Posted my first post. Then I found the other tab...and figured I'd post that too.

Probably not my shining moment.

Not buying it. Everything after the third sentence makes me think you're bullshitting.

HEY!!! UZI!! that makes no senes!!!!! if chicky was scum, why would she sneakily not notice a comment? SHE HAS NO REASON TO!!! *boops you hard* That's totally made up!!!

Oh, but she does Ms. Cake.
Note, that she was suggesting the All Town claimers were lying, and pointing out one's scumbuddy in a lie is risky.

Also worth mentioning is how Rauth immediately tried to explain for her before she did, and said "I didn't say I drew all Town," despite having a Town discard.
This reflexive defense further suggests they're together, especially given that it made no sense as a defense, and the question was something only Chickadee herself could have known the answer to anyway.

[Radical Rat]

I have a mason buddy that can confirm if necessary.

Not unless someone else claims Mason to try and dispute your claim.

[Radical Rat]

Help me understand the mason stuff.
Can there only be one Mason? If there are more, can Masons have different aligments but still have a private talk together?

Mason, traditionally is a neighbor who is confirmed Town to all other masons in the masonry. There can be any number.

In this game, due to the nature of blending alignment/role from two cards, masons do not have that Town confirmation, and are functionally no different from a regular neighborhood.

[Radical Rat]

Help me understand the mason stuff.
Can there only be one Mason? If there are more, can Masons have different aligments but still have a private talk together?

Mason, traditionally is a neighbor who is confirmed Town to all other masons in the masonry. There can be any number.

In this game, due to the nature of blending alignment/role from two cards, masons do not have that Town confirmation, and are functionally no different from a regular neighborhood.

Masons do not have to be confirmed town. In fact, I've seen it more frequently that one mason is town, and one is not. And there can be more than one set of masons.

Even if someone else came in to counterclaim masons with someone else, I wouldn't immediately assume McMenno is lying.

In a normal game, yes Masons are confirmed Town. That's what separates a Mason from a Neighbor. This game is one of the few in which that isn't true.

As for multiple mason groups, how exactly do you think that would be determined in an indefinite setup like this? Also, the Mafia Ascetic Mason description specifically states that it would be a part of Any mason group. Meaning even if Jerry does have some undisclosed method of splitting up the masons, McMenno would be in all of them.

[Radical Rat]

By indefinite I mean that the roles and alignments in this game are not planned or determined by the mod. There is no reason to assume there to be more than one mason group, when nothing in the setup page or mod posts describes a method for separating the masons.

[Radical Rat]

Why shouldn't I be asking about alignments?
It's vague enough that the really strong PRs remain undercover, but there's plenty of reads to be gathered from how people answer that question.

If such a world exists where you aren't scum, who is then and why?

Rat - fishing for info with the alignments. It doesn't sit right with me.



All claiming to have only drawn town cards:
Rauth
Vanilla
Ircher

At LEAST one of them is lying. The odds of all of them drawing all town cards is very slim. We've talked about this. They're on my watch list.

Looks to me like my "fishing for info" is serving its purpose just fine. So why doesn't it sit right with you?

Also you left Gerry off that list. Any particular reason why?

[Radical Rat]

Really? I'd had Gerry as a Townread, what's pinging you?

[Radical Rat]

Well, I don't think scum in this type of game would admit to enjoying scumplay.

I'm aware that gets WIFOMy, but I know that when I'm scum I don't like to say incriminating things like that. Especially not without being asked

[Radical Rat]

I also don't feel like underselling helps scum.
If we think there's fewer scum we'll be more calmer and more rational. If we think there's more on the other hand, we get paranoid and demoralized. And thus more likely to make poor decisions.

[Radical Rat]

Well, I don't think scum in this type of game would admit to enjoying scumplay.

I'm aware that gets WIFOMy, but I know that when I'm scum I don't like to say incriminating things like that. Especially not without being asked

He was asked. It's even quoted there.


And I think Gerry's play style is spammy enough that most people would shrug it off.

For instance, if I had made the post saying that playing mafia is fun, I think people would be questioning it.

I was under the impression that question was directed toward Tiphaine, as it was just after he's said IC was boring, and after Gerry had already stated he preferred Mafia roles.

And I disagree that your alignment preference is NAI in a game where you choose your alignment.
I should clarify that it's a rather weak townread, but it's not a decision I would make as scum, and that's all I have to go on since I've not played with him before. So I get town vibes.

[Radical Rat]

(As an analogy: Just because a royal flush in Poker is ultra-rare doesn't mean it is impossible.)

Right you are, and maybe no one is lying.
But you have an anti-town role( Unless you happen to be the perfect scumhunter ), and Rauth seemed to imply he didn't have three Town cards despite the fact that he discarded one.

So I'd wager one or both of you are lying. Rauth sounds more suspicious, but you sound more dangerous. And you've already threatened to kill me so.

As of right now, I'm comfortable with lynching within Ircher, Rauth, and Chickadee.
Null on Sly, Tiphaine and Snarky.
Light Town vibes from Gerry, LUV, and Necta
I will actively oppose a lynch of 1SVT, Riley, McMenno, and of course myself.

[Radical Rat]

And I disagree that your alignment preference is NAI in a game where you choose your alignment.
I should clarify that it's a rather weak townread, but it's not a decision I would make as scum, and that's all I have to go on since I've not played with him before. So I get town vibes.

I like town over anything but again, it's NAI. Just like someone saying they like Mafia, it's situational not confirmation.
What gives town vibes about him? If it's only gut, how do you expect to argue Chickadee's read on him?

I don't really expect to argue it. But I again disagree that it's NAI. If you were given the choice between Town and Scum, you would have chosen Town, no? Someone who prefers Mafia would in theory choose Mafia if able, so saying one does without proof of not having the choice is a risky move for scum to make.

[Radical Rat]

Snarky, Tiphaine, LUV, and Gerry.

You've all discarded Town roles with a negative utility ability.
It seems to me like neg utility cards would be ideal for taking the alignment, then taking a better ability.

It's not anything damning, of course, but... interesting to note.

well yes, its a bad role lol.

honestly i'd choose mafia over town anyway.

but i got stuck with 3 town cards and that was the worst

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: Chickadee

[Radical Rat]

Hey guys, I'm actually thinking that someone that threw away a mafia card could be mafia that got all 3 mafia cards. (or at least 2 mafia cards and a 3rd party) I seriously doubt they'd choose 3rd party unless it's like lyncher or something, but idk. I mostly think this because of odds.

There is no lyncher, but I agree that discarding scum does not clear anyone.

Why don't you think they'd choose third party though?

[Radical Rat]

Welcome aboard Riley!
3p means 3rd Party, which is just any alignment not on a team. Serial Killer and Survivor for instance. His role fits well with that I think.

Why shouldn't I be asking about alignments?
It's vague enough that the really strong PRs remain undercover, but there's plenty of reads to be gathered from how people answer that question.


Side note: I just realized I got post 69. Nice.

HEY!!! howdja know ircher's a serial eater or a survivysies?

Well, his role is a huge liability to have for Town, and a huge boon for scum. However his play also seems to be reckless and selfish, quite unbecoming of someone on a team. So either he's third party or the only one a scumteam, in which case he might as well be.

[Radical Rat]

WE SHOULD GIVE CHICKADEESIES A CHANCE!!! what if it was a real mistake and we lynch her???

Oh, this is about more than a simple mistake.

I received 3 town roles.
But given if I confirm them before others both of my hidden roles are unique.

Since Radical decided to out me, I drew the following cards:

1) VT
2) Town 1-Shot Commuter
3) Town Compulsive Vigilante

I find this hard to believe. Two people got all town roles? That leaves no wiggle room for alignment, and is awfully convenient when it comes time to claim things. There's such a huge section of list that wasn't even touched that it would be a fairly safe gamble to try and claim all town choices.

VOTE: Chickadee

Why did you leave out Rauth? He's essentially claiming the same thing in the following post:

I know that I for one drew all cards of the same alignment.
Also, you can't get town compulsive vig without also having another town card to serve as the alignment

Ah, I missed that. Genuine mistake.

Now I'm finding it even harder to believe.

The beginning. Honest mistake? Perhaps. But also take note of Rauth's sudden excusal and the implication that he did Not, in fact, draw all Town.

Rat, that seems like a pretty scummy thing to be digging for. Sounds like you're trying to set up crumbs to later build a case against whoever ends up being easy lynchbait.


VOTE: Radical Rat


Thoughts, anyone else?

I have asked about this twice now, and twice it has been ignored. She knows she's making this up to remove a threat.

Help me understand the mason stuff.
Can there only be one Mason? If there are more, can Masons have different aligments but still have a private talk together?

Mason, traditionally is a neighbor who is confirmed Town to all other masons in the masonry. There can be any number.

In this game, due to the nature of blending alignment/role from two cards, masons do not have that Town confirmation, and are functionally no different from a regular neighborhood.

Masons do not have to be confirmed town. In fact, I've seen it more frequently that one mason is town, and one is not. And there can be more than one set of masons.

Even if someone else came in to counterclaim masons with someone else, I wouldn't immediately assume McMenno is lying.

This is a blatant lie. I refuse to believe that someone who's been on site for over five years honestly didn't know what a mason was. One of the newish players here, sure, but not her.

Think what you want. It was a genuine mistake. I read through too quickly.

Yet you had time to go back and quote a post from page 1 in 106?

True story, and a bit sloppy but here's how that played out:

I went to quote that and had it up, and then left to do something else, not game related. Like literally walked away from my computer. Came back, went to do something on my computer, so I opened another tab. Posted my first post. Then I found the other tab...and figured I'd post that too.

Probably not my shining moment.

Not buying it. Everything after the third sentence makes me think you're bullshitting.

HEY!!! UZI!! that makes no senes!!!!! if chicky was scum, why would she sneakily not notice a comment? SHE HAS NO REASON TO!!! *boops you hard* That's totally made up!!!

Why wouldn't she? It's a classic cop out.

The way the word found is used in that sentence as well as how the sentence is worded implies that it was a struggle to find the tab. I don't buy that unless she claims to have had 20 tabs opened. But I know Chi, and that's not like her.

You don't know meeee!

Ok you do.

But I'm not scum. Sorry you don't believe me.

And here she admits that LUV is correct in his assessment here, but that she totally isn't scum though. Right.

Why shouldn't I be asking about alignments?
It's vague enough that the really strong PRs remain undercover, but there's plenty of reads to be gathered from how people answer that question.

If such a world exists where you aren't scum, who is then and why?

Rat - fishing for info with the alignments. It doesn't sit right with me.



All claiming to have only drawn town cards:
Rauth
Vanilla
Ircher

At LEAST one of them is lying. The odds of all of them drawing all town cards is very slim. We've talked about this. They're on my watch list.

Looks to me like my "fishing for info" is serving its purpose just fine. So why doesn't it sit right with you?

Also you left Gerry off that list. Any particular reason why?

Ah, yea, seems I did. Gerry should be on that list as well.

Honestly forgot Gerry was in this game when making that list. Should have double checked.

I went back and ISO'd though. I would even put him in one of my top scum reads.

The second time she conveniently forgets someone.

Alright, but you realize this is a game of psychological manipulation.

All of your posts feel, to me, like you are trying to be psychologically manipulative.

We're playing a game of mafia.

And here we are at last. The final straw. The smoking gun.
Manipulation is not necessary for the Town. Honesty and openness is the best weapon we have against scum. Only when the Town is telling the truth and collaborating with each other can scum be exposed.

[Radical Rat]

Ahem.
Questions anyone?

[Radical Rat]

I asked WHY the info I'm fishing for is scummy.
And yes, this is a game of manipulation but what bothers me is that when Sly said you seemed manipulative, your response read as acknowledging that you were attempting to manipulate.

I will match your unvote until we get this sorted out however.
UNVOTE:

[Radical Rat]

Hey guys, I'm actually thinking that someone that threw away a mafia card could be mafia that got all 3 mafia cards. (or at least 2 mafia cards and a 3rd party) I seriously doubt they'd choose 3rd party unless it's like lyncher or something, but idk. I mostly think this because of odds.

There is no lyncher, but I agree that discarding scum does not clear anyone.

Why don't you think they'd choose third party though?

because third party would be harder to win as. you'd be by yourself, when as mafia at least you'd have a group to work with.

A valid point, but clearly some people do it anyway, as they still crop up in Idea games.

[Radical Rat]

Hey guys, nice to see we're getting right into things.

Acting pro-town is not LAMIST. LAMIST usually implies a lack of content except to claim Town. Ircher is probably 3p.

Now then. I want to know the ALIGNMENTS of all three of everyone's cards.

Mine were two aliens and one Town.

Didn't offer it up myself, eh?
I'm going to have to ask you to read more carefully from here on out, but you're making a lot more sense now at least.

Back to Ircher it is then.
VOTE: Ircher

I can do an ISO run if anyone needs it but the short version is:
Compulsive Vig + Death threats based on OMGUS = Up to no good

[Radical Rat]

Yeaaaah, everybody hop on VOTE: ircher

This smells opportunistic to me though.
Tiphaine, you've been mostly quiet and now you jump on a wagon as soon as it looks like it could gain traction?

Granted, it is an excellent wagon to jump on, but what are your thoughts? Who are your other scumreads?

[Radical Rat]

The-fucking-balls

Was that coordinated bullshit theater?

Am I dreaming, Hello? UNVOTE:

Need to go read Chickadee/Radical Rat, back sometime tomorrow...

You've made literally five posts in over 11 pages, and only three before the vote. I don't think asking for more than a naked vote is out of the question.

[Radical Rat]

289 and 291 are both terrible, you put them together and they read an AWFUL lot like a bad scum team. The timing on them is just SO terrible. Like "Your vote was opportunistic, you need to explain it more, but yeah, totally down to vote with you before making you do either, let's go."

Also most of the time someone says something is TVT, whether they are in it or not, it is a scum-tell.

Chickadee also pinged me before back at 105.

I am ready to pretty confidently say this is scum VOTE: chickadee, and the rat might well be scum with her, though I was getting a town-vibe from the rat prior to this bullshit.

Seriously though, how in the balls was the vote on ircher opportunistic? I want someone to explain that to me, because I went and looked, and I see no real pressure on ircher, and definitely no votes. That reads as a line of bullshit to me.

And btw, rat, if you feel like reading my iso and combine it with the fact that prior to this fracas I was bored and didn't have any hard-reads yet, you'll figure out why I voted ircher real quick.

It felt opportunistic because I'd been talking about Ircher scum more or less all day, then switched to Chickadee as my primary lynch, and as soon as we agree on Ircher you drop a naked vote.

[Radical Rat]

I really can't see Ircher as scum here. I have reason to believe his role choice was actually his alignment ability and we can work on proving that tonight. And RR isn't flipping anything but town imo.
VOTE: Chickadee

That is an interesting theory, and I'd like to see how this turns out tonight.

UNVOTE:

[Radical Rat]

And now, let's talk about this.

We are most likely playing multiball right now.
What this means is that it isn't a clear-cut Town vs. Scum game. The scumteams and third parties are also in competition with each other, and this can benefit Town greatly.
Why try to fight all the scum at once when you can let them kill each other and pick off the rest?
And for the scum out there in the audience, would you prefer to be in lategame with a disorganized and paranoid Town trying desperately to lynch you, or against a coordinated team that won't care about your defenses or claims, and will be after you both during the day and night?

It is mutually beneficial that before killing the Town, you first hunt the other scumteams.

It also means that scum pushing for a Town lynch can hit another scumteam instead, participating in this arrangement whether they meant to or not.

So yes. Sometimes I will vote with my scumreads, and I find their input useful, if not necessarily trustworthy.
This is why I kept my vote on Ircher despite being wary of Tiphaine.

In Chickadee's case, I am still not confident that she's Town, but I do Want to trust her. I appreciate being able to discuss things civily and work out the misunderstandings we had, rather than it turning into a mutual OMGUS tunnel. I'm not quite sure how to read her at the moment, but I do believe we can be more productive working together and lynching someone scarier.

Savvy?

(Sorry about the wall btw)

[Radical Rat]

Prod received

Cool, so how about this game?

[Radical Rat]

Vig itself is not scummy. Compulsive vig is.

You either have to be the best darn scumhunter the site has ever seen, or you will be killing Town. The only reason I'm not still voting you is because 1 Shot seems to have something indicating you're not actually a compulsive vig.

[Radical Rat]

At least with regular vig you don't HAVE to shoot until you think you know for sure who Scum is. Compulsive forces you to guess and hope for the best.

[Radical Rat]

Okay, but the role doesn't force them to make those bad shots. They choose to do so and then deal with the consequences.

Now if you don't have a good shot planned, you've got no choice but to guess and hope for the best, which is not a good thing for the Town.

If you think it is, then I'd like to hear your explanation.

[Radical Rat]

Radical Rat and Chickadee, could you please tell me what the roles of your town cards were? Since you obviously aren't using them...

Town Hero, though I don't really see why this matters.
I wasn't gonna stake my power on the existence of a Kingmaker, so I took it for alignment.

[Radical Rat]

Okay, but the role doesn't force them to make those bad shots. They choose to do so and then deal with the consequences.

Now if you don't have a good shot planned, you've got no choice but to guess and hope for the best, which is not a good thing for the Town.

If you think it is, then I'd like to hear your explanation.

I'll make it a democracy -- I shoot one of the thrad's top 3 scumreads.

Can I pass a vote for a policy shot on Snarky?
Provided, of course, that they continue to lurk and contribute nothing.

SPEAKING OF LURKERS.....

NECTA! Been a while since we've heard from you, anything you'd like to share with the class?

[Radical Rat]

As a side note, are you feeling better Uzi? It's nice to see you here participating

[Radical Rat]

I would prefer a Rauth lynch to Chickadee, but if that's the consensus we could certainly do worse.

[Radical Rat]

McMenno
Radical Rat
Lil Uzi Vert

Town

Could you give us your scumreads too?

[Radical Rat]

Wait now I'm confused.
Chickadee's join date is from 2011, what's this about being new to the site?

[Radical Rat]

That... Explains quite a bit actually.

Chickadee, what is your prior experience with Mafia?

[Radical Rat]

Intent to hammer.

I'd still rather lynch Rauth, but. Everyone else I trust in this game is voting you, and even I'm not ready to call you a townread.

Post whatever final words you want to get out, and I do hope we meet again.

[Radical Rat]

Aside from you?

Rauth, Tiphaine and.... yeah, everyone else is null or Town, but if I had to pick a third, it would probably be Chickadee. She's the least town nullread I have.

[Radical Rat]

you're not dead

yet

VOTE: chickadee

Rude, I'd already claimed intent. B/

VOTE: Chickadee
In principle at least.

[Radical Rat]

Intent to hammer.

I'd still rather lynch Rauth, but. Everyone else I trust in this game is voting you, and even I'm not ready to call you a townread.

Post whatever final words you want to get out, and I do hope we meet again.

wow I guess you don't trust me then

rauth is a bad lynch probably

I have you as a townread, but you haven't been around enough for me to gauge trust yet.

Why is rauth a bad lynch?

[Radical Rat]

Ah damn.

I place my faith in you, remaining scum!

[Radical Rat]

'Eyyyyyy thanks for the win Snarks

[Radical Rat]

Wish I could have helped out, but SOMEONE decided to vig me.