Mini 1907: Oddrole Mafia IV (Game over)

[massive]

VOTE: GuiltyLion

Dangit that was MY random vote!

[massive]

VOTE: JavaJoe

I know I'm super curious about why Chickadee was happy no one died, so the fact that he isn't is scummy.

[massive]

What IS the actual stuff you are pushing?

[massive]

I don't really buy the explanation for this vote because you haven't attempted to interact with Chickadee at all yourself, what did you think of her 43?

It's gobbledygook. It's something written by someone who has no investment or experience with what they're saying, like something written by upper management for the shift workers in a factory. "Having town numbers up?" That's not "helpful in the long run." That's the only way town wins.

I also consider "congratulations on not dying" a solid scum tell.

Maybe me saying "curious" about Chickadee's posts is not the correct word, but I was working off of JavaJoe's phrasing, specifically about 8. It's one scum tell at that point, it COULD be from sloppy town, but JavaJoe's blanket indifference to it was weird to me.

I also consider 136 "scum caught for the wrong reasons." There's a whoooooole lot of scumtells going on with her.

Could definitely move to Chickadee.

[massive]

If there's a whoooooole lot of them, then enlighten us as to what they are.

Maybe a bit hyperbolic of me but I put three in the post you quoted. How many more would you like?

---

Almost, who is the scum driving the Chickadee wagon?

[massive]

Chickadee: If you're curious about me (as you noted in your readslist) and are putting me into what I assume is the "sorta scummy" orange pool, why aren't you working to sort me further?

[massive]

Well since I said I could vote Chickadee, now that it's not L-1, I will do so.

VOTE: Chickadee

[massive]

Brie was early confirmed town in our last game, and she admits to enjoying the freedom it gave her. Wouldn't be shocking to me if she was faking this to reclaim some of that freedom in this game, but I'm inclined to believe her for now.

Is there something specific in her claim that seems particularly fake?

[massive]

massive do you have a good reason to be voting Chickadee?

I don't really buy the explanation for this vote because you haven't attempted to interact with Chickadee at all yourself, what did you think of her 43?

It's gobbledygook. It's something written by someone who has no investment or experience with what they're saying, like something written by upper management for the shift workers in a factory. "Having town numbers up?" That's not "helpful in the long run." That's the only way town wins.

I also consider "congratulations on not dying" a solid scum tell.

Maybe me saying "curious" about Chickadee's posts is not the correct word, but I was working off of JavaJoe's phrasing, specifically about 8. It's one scum tell at that point, it COULD be from sloppy town, but JavaJoe's blanket indifference to it was weird to me.

I also consider 136 "scum caught for the wrong reasons." There's a whoooooole lot of scumtells going on with her.

Could definitely move to Chickadee.

[massive]

Who wants to tell me what's wrong with TheBrie's post above?

[massive]

Can you elaborate on what might be causing you to feel that way, Joe?

[massive]

Can you elaborate on what might be causing you to feel that way, Joe?

Based on what I read it seems to me checkadee is coming from more a town mindset. It could just be that they aren't playing the way I would play as scum though. Call it a gut read

Can you give any specific examples of something you find particularly towny?

[massive]

What am I ignoring, GuiltyLion? I townread you so let me help you.

I always hate it when Creature makes his arbitrary "lets vote massive" post on D1 because we've played together a bunch, he always sees me hang out D1-2, and he always wants to push it. And he's always town when he does. So I guess we've gotten that out of the way.

If someone wanted to start on GinghamDog I could pile on that, she's been just gritting at the fringes of all these wagons without getting involved. Otherwise I'm sticking on Chickadee.

[massive]

VOTE: GinghamDog

[massive]

What am I ignoring, GuiltyLion? I townread you so let me help you.

I was trying to bait a response with 246 and got nothing - you didn't take any offense to me saying your post and vote were awkward? why do you townread me here?

I didn't take the bait. I was pretty clear about why I scumread Chickadee and I was pretty clear about voting her. The only reason I didn't at that time was it would have put her at L-1 and it was a bit early for that. Someone hopped off so I put my vote where my mouth was. What was awkward about it?

And I equate tryhard with town. Wrong or right, you are working to clearly explain yourself and I liike that.

[massive]

If someone wanted to start on GinghamDog I could pile on that, she's been just gritting at the fringes of all these wagons without getting involved.

I've already shared my thoughts on the two main wagons in the game and why I'm not voting on them. Don't misrep me. And if you really felt this way, why not start the wagon yourself?

Obviously because I was just as content being on Chickadee, but there's no momentum. No sense jumping to another dead wagon, but if others see what I see, we can push something. Should be obvious really.

[massive]

I agree that the meta is different this game from the last. But how little credit should we give her, as someone capable of learning and growing as a player?

I found the meta difference compelling too, until her motivation became apparent. Again, how little credit should I give her as a player to conclude that she's town, but playing selfishly?

Was she a pure vanilla townie in that other game?

Unrelated:

VOTE: Chickadee

[massive]

Why is my vote on Chickadee weird? GinghamDog was going nowhere and I'm probably the only person who has put out good reasons to vote Chickadee.

Also, you didn't answer my question, boring.

[massive]

Oh I see, my question did get answered.

No, it was irrelevant to the answer to the question, I was trying to gauge the "difference in play."

[massive]

I didn't realize we were speaking specifically about the previous Oddrole game.

I was thinking about players like Twoface who have an obvious vanilla town game that is different than their town power role game.

[massive]

I'm feeling worse about Massive the more I think about it.

You can just say OMGUS, it's ok

[massive]

I'm feeling worse about Massive the more I think about it.

You can just say OMGUS, it's ok

No, I think 564 is bullshit.

Was she a pure vanilla townie in that other game?

Unrelated:

VOTE: Chickadee

Interesting. What part do you think is bullshit? The question or the "unrelated"?

[massive]

Luckily only about half of us have to come to an agreement.

GL, I'm looking back to see where we agree.

[massive]

And I do think massive is the next most likely to be scum, for reasons other people have provided.

What are those reasons?

Ugh every time GinghamDog posts it makes me itch. You all need to lynch that tomorrow if you lynch me today. Shade at podoboq in the same post as saying "the obvious answer is he's town" then the handy vote once the momentum swings to me.

[massive]

If you ISO podo and search for every post containing "Snarky", podo pretty much started the game with a useless-but-town vibe on him. Later on, podo becomes VERY concerned over anyone hammering Snarky and does what he can to prevent that from happening.

So either podo really does have town info on Snarky or it's a very transparent defense from one scum to another. The first is more likely; podo is a better player than the second.

[massive]

He's town -> Podoboq is town

[massive]

He's been semi-lurky, engages a little but never takes it too far, moves his vote with the flow... It looks survivalist to me.

I .. am not a prolific poster in any game, as any alignment, but I produced a case on Chickadee that still points to her being scum, I've moved my vote exactly once outside of RVS (to you by the way) and then moved it back because the wagon died, back to (surprise) the person who is my top scumread, and survivalism (as noted by Chickadee) is NAI. Would you like to have another shot at a case against me?

[massive]

Only votes me after someone else moves off (I'm his biggest scum read, but he didn't want to lynch me, or at the very least didn't want to hammer, but he also never stated intent to hammer or asked for a claim. Interesting)

I hate the modern gameplay of "bandwagon to claim, new bandwagon" so you won't ever see me do it. You won't see me claim at L-1 probably either.

Why not push your biggest scum read? This seems really opportunistic.

Weren't you the one who was getting flak this game for switching between two scum reads?

Switching back to voting me seems odd. Quite a few people have commented on this. So I won't.

Oh no, please comment. I'm curious why that seems odd to you.

[massive]

90% of your game so far has revolved around Chickadee and occasionally me. Do you have other things you can discuss?

Sure. I don't see any reason to disbelieve the Desperado claim, I've already said I'm townreading GL, Creature is also town-Creature which I at the very least mentioned in passing, and I don't have a feeling either way about Snarky. Rauther is hard to parse. Boring I think is town. As someone noted I think podoboq is probably town (I don't think he has any reason to roughly townclear Snarky otherwise). I think you have a propensity to misrep me which is wicked strong, but good on you since you're scum.

[massive]

I left someone out who isn't participating enough. Maybe two. Javajoe hasn't played well but null. A50 is always going to be an over-time read. Brie will also take a little time to parse what's newbie versus what's alignment, but I feel OK about her, and her defense of Chickadee's wagon early on seemed way newbie and therefore probably coming from town.

podoboq: I thought I chose my words carefully enough ("roughly") to ensure that I, at least, understand the nature of your message.

[massive]

Well I guess I'm happy you all agree I'm a mislynch.

[massive]

Well ... not to look a gift horse in the mouth, but if I vote Rauth it's purely out of self-preservation.

There's also something in GinghamDog's 731 that I figured had an obvious answer, but I guess it didn't? But the answer is just as NAI as the question. That's probably cryptic and I apologize.

I agree that my wagon was good and there's probably two scum on it, with the struggle it took to get it up to L-1.

Someone had an issue with me "feeling out" a wagon on GinghamDog before voting it, but I can't seem to find who it was. How does that person feel about GinghamDog now?

[massive]

I thought it was you but couldn't find it, so I assumed it was Chickadee and couldn't find it. It's as NAI for you as it is for me.

[massive]

VOTE: Chickadee

That's a scum claim.

[massive]

DAMMIT I HAVE NO VOTE

this is the worst

[massive]

Actually the revelation that Almost50 received the CPR needs to be looked at too. I want to see if there was any indication he'd be ok with whoever got it using it as a vig shot.

[massive]

I was worried that A50 was scum using the CPR like a second kill but now his explanation makes sense. The CPR Instructor makes sense with a Black Goo too -- more town with ambient targetted abilities that don't overly do anything but might get gooey. Podoboq's kill looks more and more like scum playing the CPR odds as well. If scum did have two kills, it seems way more likely that one of them would have hit Desperado.

[massive]

Massive, what exactly do you mean by Scum playing with the CPR odds?

WIFOM. Like A50 said in his post when he claimed the second kill, he knew the second CPR would introduce some amount of WIFOM -- do you kill the instructor and then get zero kill when his student protects him? Or do you kill someone else in the hopes that the student protects and kills the instructor? The second avenue is more likely to result in an actual kill and more likely to result in two kills.

I think Desp is probably done handing out CPRs since we're slipping closer to a scum win AND there's possible a Goo running around.

----

I would lynch Javajoe in a heartbeat. He never explained voting me yesterday (obviously it was because it was the wagon and he was content putting me at L-1 despite me being a null read in his previous reads list) and to include me in a random list of "lynchables" today with no further exploration is pretty bad. I can't see him actually scumhunting at all. Or you can call it OMGUS.

[massive]

I think it's Joe / A50 / ???

I don't think the same two scum are on both of these wagons:

massive (6) [L-1]: podoboq, Almost50, Chickadee, GinghamDog, Javajoe24, boring
Rautherdir (7) [Lynch]: Desperado, SnarkySnowman, GinghamDog, Chickadee, Javajoe24, podoboq, boring

so it's either Joe or Chickadee; I think at this point I'm more likely to pick Joe. And I think both are likely to have two scum on them, which means A50 and Snarky probably.

If I had a vote it'd be on Joe.

[massive]

The voting chart is dependent on only one of a group of three scum voting for any of them. That's not conclusive. And claiming watcher or tracker isn't proof of town either.

[massive]

(Also, GL is on neither of those wagons, so that certainly gives him a chance at being the ???, but I feel like my townread on GL is better than vote analysis.)

[massive]

Can you elaborate on your GL town read and why it is better than vote analysis, which to me is a factual and rational way to scum hunt?

My GL read is based on reading comprehension and shared interpretation of events. Your vote analysis is based on a faulty initial assumption (scum in a group of three will absolutely only have one of them vote one of their partners) and therefore has very little merit.

Why are you ruling out both scum hopping from wagon to wagon? I don't think I follow that, especially given how wildly fast the Rauth wagon was

I think a scum pair is on my wagon. It makes sense and plays averages.

Because it WAS so fast, I don't think both scum needed to hop to keep fueling it, and I think they are going to be more careful about pushing town wagons in concert than townies will be. Therefore, I think of the two people who were on both wagons, it's less likely they're both scum.

---

Will be curious what people make of Joe's claim. Specifically GL, A50, Brie.

[massive]

and I think they are going to be more careful about pushing town wagons in concert than townies will be.

Especially back-to-back. That wagon looks like this with known flips:

Rautherdir

(7) [Lynch]: Desperado, SnarkySnowman,

GinghamDog

, Chickadee, Javajoe24,

podoboq

,

boring

and if you assume Desperado is town for now, it makes it look WAY more likely that it's Snarky (or no one) plus one of the other two, rather than Chickadee + Javajoe.

[massive]

Why Desp? Why not A50?

[massive]

Which of my reads would you quantify as "all over the place"?

[massive]

I hate page tops.

Massive's Reads seem to be a bit all over the place and they're not both scum.

[massive]

Chick took massive's vote and then tried to use it to hammer another

different

player without any input from massive

Well I'm not crazy about the superhammer attempt but this seems irrelevant -- she stole my vote because she thinks I'm scum, so why would she even care about my opinion?

(also I think I have said that I'd be fine with an A50 lynch)

[massive]

Massive SRs A50, but doesn't vote him.

Yeah well I had my vote stolen so I kinda CAN'T. Come on son.

I am proposing killing A50 today, and having Desperado kill Chicka tonight. Yes, Chicka is scum guaranteed, and I am not trying to say otherwise, I am simply saying it is more important for town to eliminate scum's second night kill over a vote thief that has already used her ability today.

I can't decide if this is town-clever or scum-clever. What do you propose happens if A50 flips town?

[massive]

So you would say, if A50 flips town, Desperado should still try to CPR-kill Chickadee?

[massive]

Massive SRs A50, but doesn't vote him.

Yeah well I had my vote stolen so I kinda CAN'T. Come on son.

I'm a girl. I did kind of forget that. I wasn't saying you should be voting A50 though. Just analyzing the possible connections.
If you had a vote would you be voting for Chick A50 or neither?

I know, it's a Psych reference more than anything. And honestly I think I'd be voting Javajoe at this point. But I also think I'd have been paying a bit better attention if I had a vote -- I'll be honest and say that having no vote is the worst for my motivation.

[massive]

Can you explain why you would be voting me?

See my own VCA, see GL's reasons, see my thoughts on your VCA. It's a mess because you're playing like Chickadee's partner (calling her "confscum" while voting someone else) but I don't believe you're partners (see my VCA), so my best guess is you're bussing A50 for towncred while lining up a vig-CPR / mislynch for tomorrow?

Of the two wagons right now I'd probably vote A50 because I keep feeling like scum!Chickadee would have used her vote steal N0. No reason not to. Way better to establish herself as a vote stealer before there's any suspicion on her at all. Maybe her use of it N1 was survivalist (which is NAI) and maybe she hasn't used it great since taking it, but her target (me) fit her stated opinions at the end of D1.

[massive]

Catching up from 1093.

[massive]

Can someone please unvote for thirty? I think we lose if we lynch Chickadee and I need to take that out of Joe's hand.

[massive]

Probably a scumclaim from Snarky since he knows as well as anyone moving onto A50 that Chickadee would have come on and hammered him.

[massive]

well, a little of both actually

[massive]

What I mean is, what purpose does condemning Chickadee there serve? We all knew she was going to do it.

[massive]

I'm thinking. It's gonna take a bit. Only one mafia left is nice though.

[massive]

And we probably need to know:

Mod: In a hypothetical situation where a vote thief would steal a vote and then die, would the person stolen from still have no vote?

[massive]

Scum did a good job of obscuring votes but this still needs a scum:

Rautherdir

(7) [LYNCHED]: Desperado, SnarkySnowman,

GinghamDog

,

Chickadee

,

Javajoe24

,

podoboq

,

boring

Guess what Snarks it's you.

[massive]

Probably a scumclaim from Snarky since he knows as well as anyone moving onto A50 that Chickadee would have come on and hammered him.

given how he's played this game I'm not convinced Snarky is even reading the thread

Oh GL you had me pocketed good.

[massive]

I'm not. But I also don't think all three of those can be true.

[massive]

Not much going on. I agree we have to lynch a goo today though so

VOTE: Desperado