Mini 1907: Oddrole Mafia IV (Game over)

[Javajoe24]

VOTE: Chickadee

How can you not like coffee?!?!

[Javajoe24]

VOTE: Desperado
Because NC isn't big enough for the both of us.

Also, shoutout to all my Oddrole III peeps!

You are from NC also?? Cool. And yes, NC is getting too crowded..

[Javajoe24]

Also, I don't read much into chickadees comment about no one dying. I am just RVS voting her for dissing my favorite beverage... I realize we don't have much to go on yet, but I do not read their comment as scummy.

[Javajoe24]

UNVOTE:

I have nothing against JavaJoe at the moment, so I don't see a need for there to be three votes on him right now.

I read this as town. I don't think scum would voluntarily do this, unless they are trying to get town cred, which is possible considering how they pointed it out along with the un vote.

Thoughts?

[Javajoe24]

UNVOTE:

Almost forgot.

[Javajoe24]

Why?

[Javajoe24]

I am sorry, this is my first game back from a fairly long break, I have forgotten a lot. What is a vanity wagon?

[Javajoe24]

Is the vote on creature a serious vote? If so, maybe elaborate a bit?

[Javajoe24]

Well vig doesn't really seem like a very rare role to me... And if we are going to go over what might have happened last night, I will say that my role does not have the ability to protect itself or anyone else, so I have no information for you.

[Javajoe24]

Brie and Joe are already giving out way too much role information. RVS is over for me.

UNVOTE:

I have to agree. Brie, Joe, too much information. It just helps scum figure out who is who.

scum in this pair, guaranteed

What do you mean this pair, do you mean the authors of those two posts, or me and Brie which both the authors mention?

Also, as to me giving too much info, I did so for a reason, but I will refrain from giving out any more role related info.

[Javajoe24]

I didn't feel JavaJoe24 would be a good wagon.

Why not? This sounds like you are trying to buddy me which is scummy to me. Honestly I would have joined a wagon against me if I were in your position.

[Javajoe24]

You didn't answer my question creature. I agree that putting pressure on people is needed to get information, but I do not like that you completely ignored my question.

[Javajoe24]

I am here guys, I will make a longer post with content later tonight. At work now, sorry

[Javajoe24]

I am getting a town read on chickadee, but I have only had a chance to skim, I fell asleep after work yesterday.

[Javajoe24]

Can you elaborate on what might be causing you to feel that way, Joe?

Based on what I read it seems to me checkadee is coming from more a town mindset. It could just be that they aren't playing the way I would play as scum though. Call it a gut read

[Javajoe24]

lol

I'm a CPR instructor. Each night I can perform CPR and prevent a kill and during the day I can teach someone else CPR.

the wagon on me is absolutely trash but I don't care because I can confirm myself as town. boring deserves a medal for sussing that bit out.

I believe this claim, have you used your day ability? And if so, who on and can they confirm?

[Javajoe24]

My problem with Javaq is the lack of any reads/votes (with the exception of RVS on Chicka and then a TR on Chicka herself). This means he is probably playing to NOT upset anyone thus far. No signs of scum hunting either. I would like the opportunity to engage him and have something to read him better.

I am an open book since you want to engage with me. I generally town read most people and have a hard time finding scum with little information, which is why I am mainly sitting back and observing. I like to try and see not what people are voting, but why, and try to go from there. I am having trouble finding anyone suspicious, but out of the creature/boring fight I actually think boring is more likely to be town even though I was town reading chick earlier. But it is still possible it was town vs town or scum theater.

[Javajoe24]

I have no problem voting him either

VOTE: GinghamDog

As for the last line of my last post, yes, technically I left all options open, I was just elaborating on how I think and why I find it hard to scum read people with little info. But also, I believe more often than not the simplest solution is the correct solution, so those other possibilities are unlikely to me.

[Javajoe24]

A50 has a point SS, why are you voting a town read and voting with your strongest scum read, that makes no sense. Thank you A50 for pointing that out, I wouldn't have noticed.

VOTE: SS

[Javajoe24]

I voted chicka in post 106, because of post 56 or something like that. Then I've been inactive / catchup mode since. Sorry, but that's weak.

Strong, not strongest, townread on massive. I haven't seen anything from him I don't like, and some gut to go with it. Rauth has been inconsequential to me in that after reading the game I don't remember any of his posts other than the townslip one.

That role (CPR instructor) can just as easily be scum, having that turn into 3 or 4 cpr people hurts town more than it helps too. It's possible to believe his claim and also think he's scum simultaneously. It's not on the list of roles, so who says that has to be a town role? Who says that if it is a town role, that it's more helpful to town than scum? Going by his play, he's so fucking scummy.

Still waiting to hear what that scumclaim you're talking about was.

This post is complete bs.

First of all, if you are claiming you are voting a town read because you voted him earlier for reasons you can't even remember, then went inactive, then you have had 2 posts now at least to fix that problem but have chosen not to.

Secondly, the cpr role not being on the role list given by the mod means nothing, that list is not all inclusive as I know for a fact because my own role is not listed on that list.

I also fail to understand how making more people confirmed cpr roles would hurt town? There are two benefits from my current understanding, first you are confirming a town role thus eliminating the potential pool for scum, and secondly, you are adding another protective role to town making it harder for scum to kill a townie.

SS is scum confirmed to me at this point

[Javajoe24]

I am here guys, had a long couple of days. Nothing to add really, still think snarky is scum

[Javajoe24]

ya joe's a good bet for scum right now

I could buy rauth as scum but I haven't really been pinged much. I could get on Joe anytime though

Can you explain your scum reads on me please. The only details I can find against me is my soft claim and the fact I am not very active. I see neither of these as scummy

Also, post, in 467 you claim to town read my posts except for one bad post, which you claim isn't scummy just bad, but yet since then I have not posted anything else until now and you claim I am a good vig kill? What has changed since then? Personally I do not scum read you for this because I am town reading you for another post I read which I will link below, but the post is genuinely confusing to me.

[Javajoe24]

Actually I have a suspicion of who that target might be. And he isn't someone I think is particularly scummy.
And it's so smoothly done I don't think it's likely to be scum orchestrated. Unless they have day chat.

Scum didn't have daychat in Oddrole III. Can anyone clarify whether scum have had daychat in I or II? It doesn't necessarily indicate whether or not daychat is in this game, but it's a potential bulletpoint.

This is the post I am referring too. It just seems like a genuinely town post, but again I can see how it could be faked.

[Javajoe24]

I do not understand why it collapsed either. My vote will remain firnmly where it is.

[Javajoe24]

This is my basic read list currently. The names and strength of the read is in no particular order.

Town reads- Almost50, boring, Desperado, TheBrie, podoboq
Null reads- GinghamDog, Rautherdir, Chickadee(still don't know what to make of them), GuiltyLion, Massive, creature
Scum reads- snarkySnowman

[Javajoe24]

We are running out of time, what are we doing? I am happy with a SS lynch over the others, but I will settle for either a massive or chickadee lynch if everyone comes to an agreement. We need to work out what we are going to do though.

[Javajoe24]

if everyone comes to an agreement

impossible standards

In a literal sense yes, but I meant a majority of people come to a conclusion...

[Javajoe24]

The massive wagon seems to be getting a lot of resistance, just not in the form of "this wagon is stupid, don't join it." It's mostly "I could vote there, but SS and/or Chickadee are better wagons."

I think that's because there's some paranoia surrounding WHY the other two wagons disbanded. I keep wondering if we've been corralled into a mislynch.

Based on his reads alone, I would say Snarky has been the most scummy player outright.

I can't speak much on the Chickadee wagon. I don't remember exactly what caused that to fall apart.

The Snarky wagon, though, I am taking credit for breaking. The Snarky wagon stopped because I softed role-related information that suggests that Snarky is town. I think that's pretty clear, and I don't understand how there can still be any question about that.

For what it's worth,

I do not have a cop clear on Snarky. I still have information that implies, purely for mechanical reasons, that she is less likely to be scum than the average player.

She also happens to be an incredibly easy mislynch in every game she ever plays on this site.

That soft claim must have went over my head. I town read you and if you have any info that suggests SS is town, I will back off for now.

Intent to vote massive when I finish catching up if not at L-1

[Javajoe24]

rauthers obsession with my CPR student is scummy as fuck

Agreed

[Javajoe24]

VOTE: massive

Massive is at L-1

[Javajoe24]

UNVOTE:
Chickadee, why did you put boring as definitely scum?

Curious about this unvote. Why vote and then immediately unvote when they get to L-1, especially so close to deadline. Then put no reason for doing so and just asking chickadee about their read list?

[Javajoe24]

Rauth, you're pretty hung up on my not realizing this was a night start :/

This is all you have to say?

[Javajoe24]

I'm guessing a misslynch would be better than no lynch?
If we kill town today and 1 town is killed tonight, that's 7 - 3 - 1 plus information. Not ideal, but it probably increases the chance of lynching scum tomorrow.
I've got just enough confidence that I will hammer one of the wagons at the day end to prevent no lynch.

So this may be a stupid question, but how do you know the number of scum, and the fact that this is a three faction game? I have looked all through the mods posts and I see nothing relating to this. Is it just something we know from previous oddball games or am I missing something?

[Javajoe24]

Thank you so much, I somehow missed that post

[Javajoe24]

Don't try to throw words in people's mouths, only one, or two people, considering how you interpret it, have explicitly said you are a possible mislynch

[Javajoe24]

town: {Desperado, boring, Snarky, Creature}
townlean: {Brie, podo, massive, Java}
scumpool: {Chick, Gingham, Almost, Rauth}

Why do you only lean town on Brie? And why do you place Snarky as full-town if you only lean town on podo?

Also want your thoughts on Almost. I see him as town for a certain reason, so interested as to what you see differently.

Am I in your scumpool by POE or do you legit think I'm scummy?

You have valid points here I would also like to hear the answer on

[Javajoe24]

Town - thebrie, podo, desperado
Town lean - boring, SS(only because of podo), gingham, almost50
Null- GL, creature
Scum lean -chickadee, rauth, massive

[Javajoe24]

VOTE: raith

[Javajoe24]

Ebwop

[/vote] Rauth[/vote]

[Javajoe24]

Ebwop x2

VOTE: Rauth

Mod can you please remove the previous attempts

[Javajoe24]

That role claim seems really suspicious, both for not having a name, which I do not believe, and for being completely unhelpful to town, and would only benefit scum.

[Javajoe24]

I just went to the role list in the first post, and his claim sounds a lot like the "mad monk" which can either be town or SK. Also, that role can kill at night, and since he lied about that I am assuming this is a SK role.

[Javajoe24]

no reads, no fight. hammer timeeee

I promised a little time. Two more confirmactions, and I'll hammer sooner.

pull the trigger piglet

Yes, I agree. Whatever his true role is, with his secrecy and lack of a claim before hand as ascetic, he is very unlikely to be town.

[Javajoe24]

Also, non game related...

Desperado, I just noticed you live in Raleigh NC, I do also. That's really cool, pm me sometime if you ever wanna hang out maybe.

[Javajoe24]

Wow, three of us from Raleigh? That's crazy!

[Javajoe24]

Why is Rautherdir being targeted with the lynch? I only voted massive as a compromise to Snarky, and now you want me to compromise in the compromise? Not gonna happen.

And that Ascetic claim could easily be verified. Desp can target him. If Rauther dies then he is lying about his role and has brought it on himself regardless of his alignment. If he lives then the protection failed and he IS Ascetic.

What I want to know is what info do we get from Rauther flipping GREEN? I understand that him flipping RED can give us directions, but what if he doesn't? Either Massive or Snarky would give more info as either alignment IMHO.

Anyway, I do NOT have a strong read on Rauther, but I do find it odd nobody's defending him at all. If he is 3P that may explain it a little, but it STILL won't give us any info regarding the main Scum team.

I have been town reading you until this post. This is oddrole, you honestly think rauth is a town sided regular astetic? Very unlikely, and the fact he is being shady about even naming it, and not coming out before is suspicious. The fact that you are ignoring this and trying to throw shade at those voting him makes me actually scum read you now.

[Javajoe24]

And also, what More would we gain from massive, SS, or anyone else flipping green than rauth. This arguemwnt I have always found flawed

[Javajoe24]

I am a little confused about a game mechanic situation. I have never seen that goo before, but obviously someone attacked and killed pogo last night, so does that mean that the person that killed podo is now goo or is that faction eliminated?

[Javajoe24]

I am putting it out there that I know who gingham gave the revive ability to last night. I do not want to list who it is as that would give scum an advantage I think. I town read A50, Desperado, and TheBrie, if you three think it is a good idea to release that information I will

[Javajoe24]

Did you miss TheBrie saying the censor taker was a 1 time ability?

[Javajoe24]

I think we could make the Black Goos claim (if they have more than one) and we all target them.

Also, this would not work because we already know one player has a non visiting role.

[Javajoe24]

Did you miss my soft claim A50? I had a question for my three main town reads including yourself I would like an answer to

[Javajoe24]

Also, what makes you put chickadee in the town pool?

[Javajoe24]

I would be happy with a massive, GL, creature, or chickadee lynch. I might consider a SS lynch because post flipping goo makes me question SS from yesterday.

[Javajoe24]

You said my read list made no sense, but I was using a process of elimination of who is left that is not confirmed town to me, yes, I find it likely that massive and chicka are not both scum, but I do not know which is more likely scum at this point. I will have to do more research on who voted who on day 1 and get back to you.

Also, I feel like I have given enough proof of my towniness but I will full claim if you honestly don't believe me, and then you will know I am town, because I literally could not make this role up... haha. I don't play this game enough and I could not find this role on any of the role lists in the mods first post.

[Javajoe24]

Ok, so I took the time to write out all votes done in the game by each player so far in order, this is what I got:

A50

- Javajoe, Desperado, Javajoe, SS, Massive, Creature
Not Voted: boring, Chickadee, GinghamDog, GL, podo, Rauth, TheBrie

Chicka

- Javajoe, Desperado, boring, Desperado, SS, massive, Rauth, SS
Not Voted: A50, Creature, Gingham, GL, podo, TheBrie

Creature

- A50, Massive, Chicka, Desperado, GinghamDog, A50
Not Voted: boring, GL, Javajoe, podo, Rauth, SS, TheBrie

Desperado

- Chicka, Rauth, Chicka
Not Voted: A50, boring, Creature, GinghamDog, GL, Javajoe, Massive, Podo, SS, TheBrie

GL

- Creature, Massive, Desperado, Chicka, Chicka
Not Voted: A50, boring, GinghamDog, Javajoe, Podo, Rauth, SS, TheBrie

Javajoe

- Chicka, GinghamDog, SS, Massive, Rauth
Not Voted: A50, boring, Creature, Desperado, GL, Podo, TheBrie

Massive

- GL, Javajoe, Chicka, GinghamDog, Chicka, Chicka
Not Voted: A50, boring, Creature, Desperado, Podo, Rauth, SS, TheBrie

SS

- Chicka, A50, Rauth
Not Voted: boring, Creature, Desperado, GinghamDog, GL, Javajoe, Massive, Podo, TheBrie

I found some things interesting in this....

First, look at the votes of A50 and Chicka, they are very very similar with minor discrepancies.
Second, If Massive is scum, based on this list, I cannot find 2 other people that would be scum with him, I am much more inclined to believe Chicka is scum out of the two.
Third, If Chicka is scum, the only candidate I see for a partner is A50, and the other partner has been bussing her. I find this more likely then having massive being bussed by both his partners.

I know you will say there is more people that did not vote for massive, but look who those people are: Desperado and SS, and Desperado has been cleared as conf. town, and SS is somewhat cleared by podo.

I am more then happy with a Chicka lynch today

VOTE: Chicka

[Javajoe24]

And yes, I was Town reading A50 before this, and am still conflicted, trying to remember why I was town reading him, pretty sure he had claimed something that seemed town before, but cant remember what he claimed, this is why I am more happy with a Chicka lynch and not going for an A50 lynch.

[Javajoe24]

But now looking at it again, we are leaving out the possibility that Creature is not the goo, and is the mafia (which I find unlikely, because if creature isn't goo, he is likely town, mafia would not suggest turning all into goo like he did), which I think we should not eliminate all possibilities yet.

[Javajoe24]

possible scum teams calculated by having no more than 1 person bussing a scum:

A50, Chicka, GL
A50, Chicka, SS
A50, Chicka, Creature
A50, Chicka, Javajoe
Chicka, GL, SS
Chicka, GL, Javajoe
Chicka, SS, Creature,
A50, GL, Javajoe

Chicka -7/8
A50 - 5/8
GL- 4/8
Javajoe - 3/8
SS - 3/8
Creature - 2/8

I may have missed a pairing, but that was all I could find where only one scum was bussed by a partner, let me know if I missed one and I will add it. I think this clearly shows that Chicka is the correct lynch today.

[Javajoe24]

He is by no means confirmed, it's all by process of elimination and probabilities. I am counting on the fact that yesterday the scum team either did not buss a partner because they did not need to, or they only bussed one partner. The idea that scum would buss two partners in one day seems low to me. So with that in mind, I looked for what people voted who, and when it came to massive, no other players fit into his scum team without having bussed another possible scum as well. Also note that I left the confirmed town out of the equation or their might have been more scum teams that did include massive. If I missed a scum team please point it out, because I freely admit I may have missed some as it was early in the morning.

[Javajoe24]

possible scum teams calculated by having no more than 1 person bussing a scum:

A50, Chicka, GL
A50, Chicka, SS
A50, Chicka, Creature
A50, Chicka, Javajoe
Chicka, GL, SS
Chicka, GL, Javajoe
Chicka, SS, Creature,
A50, GL, Javajoe

Chicka -7/8
A50 - 5/8
GL- 4/8
Javajoe - 3/8
SS - 3/8
Creature - 2/8

I may have missed a pairing, but that was all I could find where only one scum was bussed by a partner, let me know if I missed one and I will add it. I think this clearly shows that Chicka is the correct lynch today.

Wow, I was more groggy than I thought, I missed one that includes massive. Although if massive is scum, based on my hypothesis this would be the only possible scum team.

Other possible team:
Massive, SS, creature

This puts the total at

Chicka - 7/9
A50 - 5/9
GL - 4/9
SS - 4/9
Javajoe - 3/9
Creature - 3/9
Massive - 1/9

Which means chicka is still the best option for a lynch today.

[Javajoe24]

It's not a policy lynch if everyone thinks your scum. Also, for me, if you somehow flip town, then it limits it to 2 scum teams, one of which includes me, which would mean I would know who the scum is

[Javajoe24]

The only two teams that would make since with me and A50 together would be either chickadee or GL.

[Javajoe24]

I told you guys earlier I scum hunt better when I have info to go on, now I have a whole days worth of voting to base things on. If one more person says I am scummy I am going to full claim. You are wasting your time thinking I am scum and not looking for the real scum. I am trying to give you a guide with this voting chart.

[Javajoe24]

Can you elaborate on your GL town read and why it is better than vote analysis, which to me is a factual and rational way to scum hunt?

[Javajoe24]

Hey, I could wagon Javajoe.

Give reasons

[Javajoe24]

Also, why is Chickadee scum again?

Also, this is exactly something I would say if I saw my scum partner being pressured...

[Javajoe24]

Ok, I see no further reason to not go ahead and claim due to the nature of my role. And I am tired of people wasting their time scum reading me instead of considering other possibilities.

My role is an unstable clone, which means every morning I morph into a different role. Night 0 I had no abilities, and when D1 started I turned into a cephalopod. This new role gave me an option to do 4 actions, either 1. Hide making me immune to visits, 2. Watch someone and see who visits them, 3. Track someone to see who they visited, or 4. Poison someone to kill them. N1 I chose option 2 and saw gingham, and gingham only, visit the person I watched, which is how I know who he gave his power to. This information may come in handy later if I die and someone claims to have visited this person that night.

This morning I turned into another role that I will not say right now as it would only help scum, but I will say that I am noticing a pattern that my abilities seem to always have 4 options.

As somewhat of a crumb from earlier, when I said I did not have a protective role and said I gave that information for a reason, the reason was I was trying to get scum to target me while I hid. When it became apparent that I was not going to be night killed due to so much suspicion resting on me I decided to watch someone instead of hiding.

[Javajoe24]

Huh, well, now that Java claimed, it makes me think scum is in Desp, SS and Chick.

Did anyone receive Desp's CPR?

Wait what?!? This is your response? We have been over this, and desp is basically confirmed town at this point. Why are you saying desp is scum over A50, who confirmed that he received the ability that desp gave him. I find this reaction scummy and almost like you are protecting A50.

I am just conflicted because scum!creature would not propose town turning to goo...

[Javajoe24]

Not directly defending, but indirectly by not bringing them up

[Javajoe24]

Yes, but putting a confirmed a confirmed town in your scum pool over someone people are talking about right now seems very odd to me.

[Javajoe24]

Problem is neither you or SS is confirmed...

[Javajoe24]

Your right, and I don't think it is you.

[Javajoe24]

I have been thinking, and while I am most confident in chicka being scum, I am almost as confident in A50 being scum, and he has a killing ability that gives scum 2 kills a night, we need to eliminate that second kill today! Desperado should kill chicka tonight with his CPR ability.

[Javajoe24]

Notice how jj is "ordering" a kill on Chicka? And when she flips green he'll resort to

his initial "Desperado's not confirmed

" to get him lynched. That's why the vote thief needs to go to guarantee no fuck-ups in their final day plan.

Bolded part I want an answer to. When have I ever said that desperado is not confirmed. In fact after desperadoes claim I have considered him confirmed town unflinchingly. Your vote stinks of OMGUS and have virtually confirmed yourself as scum.

Also, your assumption that "if you flip green I will attack desperado as not confirmed" makes no sense. If he truly did what was asked by him by the town (of course I wouldn't expect him to listen to only me, I would expect a consensus from the confirmed townies first) then there would in no way be grounds to accuse him of being scum.

Also, at this point it is pretty obvious to me that both A50 and chicka are scum, which means massive is town or goo, which poses a major problem to town. Right now town only has 4 votes and we need 5 to lynch today. We need goo's help, and whoever is goo, it is in your best interest to help the town as you cannot convert mafia and mafia can still kill you. Please everyone that is town and goo vote A50 with me.

VOTE: Almost50

[Javajoe24]

EBWOP: I meant you said if *she* flips green, not you

[Javajoe24]

Also, I am the one that has claimed my role which really has no benefit to scum, I am sure if you look it up in the wiki it probably isn't given to scum, but to my knowledge other than the CPR ability that you received (and may I add already used to kill a townie unlike desperado), you have yet to claim your role. Chicka's claimed role seems to have much more benefit to a scum player than a townie and I see that role as a mafia one. If I missed your claim apologies, just quote the proper post for me then and I will look it over.

[Javajoe24]

If that is the hammer, I ask desperado to please target chicka tonight if A50 flips red

[Javajoe24]

possible scum teams calculated by having no more than 1 person bussing a scum:

A50, Chicka, GL
A50, Chicka, SS
A50, Chicka, Creature
A50, Chicka, Javajoe
Chicka, GL, SS
Chicka, GL, Javajoe
Chicka, SS, Creature,
A50, GL, Javajoe

Chicka -7/8
A50 - 5/8
GL- 4/8
Javajoe - 3/8
SS - 3/8
Creature - 2/8

I may have missed a pairing, but that was all I could find where only one scum was bussed by a partner, let me know if I missed one and I will add it. I think this clearly shows that Chicka is the correct lynch today.

Wow, I was more groggy than I thought, I missed one that includes massive. Although if massive is scum, based on my hypothesis this would be the only possible scum team.

Other possible team:
Massive, SS, creature

This puts the total at

Chicka - 7/9
A50 - 5/9
GL - 4/9
SS - 4/9
Javajoe - 3/9
Creature - 3/9
Massive - 1/9

Which means chicka is still the best option for a lynch today.

Now, let's say we BOTH flip SCUM (me & Chicka). He has GL, SS & creature all lined up for lynch.
But -of course- he would be conf!Town in that case, and besides I know my own alignment, so not applicable.

Let's say I flip scum (again, I know it's not the case) and she flips Town.

According to his own analysis

, the ONLY team I cam be scum NOT with her is with HIM and GL.

Now let's consider the case where I'm Town and she is Scum. Again, GL, SS & creature are lynch candidates.

Finally, me & Chicka are TOWN. Whoops! Sorry. It must be massive, SS, creature then.

Notice in that case that he opts to CLEAR HIMSELF after we both flip green?? He also clears YOU (GL) on that basis. BRILLIANT. I guess that's why he went back to add that last team formation, as he realized his initial liat would have made him look ridiculous if he pushed us both and we both flipped Town, which he KNOWS to be the case.

So, I will counter Jj's move. I don't think this is going to be the best move, but -at least- it's better than his BS. Flip me, but do NOT vig Chicka. Force him to kill her himself. Don't give Scum a free kill (and easy win).

Agree?

I would like to thank you for how good you are saying I am at this game with this well thought out and constructed plan. I really wish it were true, but like you all seemed to think of me as derpy early in the game I fail to see how you can logically come to this conclusion. You are just flailing because you know your goose is cooked. I do not have to go to such extreme lengths to "manipulate" people, my method can be reproduced easily enough by any one of you, which means it is scientifically verifiable. I challenge you to use my method and I am sure you will come up with the exact same list. I challenge anyone that questions my alignment to use my method to do the same and you all will come up with the same list. Just remember to only include those votes up until I posted my list, otherwise the results may vary because other votes have been cast since I made that list.

Now, onto my concerns, it concerns me that chicka tried to quick hammer A50 because I know that there is a greater than 70% chance that chicka is scum. This can only be resolved in the fact that chicka knows that A50 is doomed and trying to get some town credit by hammering a scum flip.

[Javajoe24]

Also you trying desperately to not get chicka killed by CPR further enforces my scum read on the two of you. All this voting each other now is only a last ditch effort at distancing, but too little too late in my opinion. At least that is how I see things right now.

[Javajoe24]

Also, it just hit me. If I was Scum with Chicka, and I'm the one with the CPR ability, why the FUCK do I defend her that hard and then she jumps on me like that?? Are scum trying to get rid of their 2nd kill??? I probably should have got her lynched already, regardless of her alignment if I was scum.

Let me try to rephrase that:

Scum!Me would have absolutely no reason to defend Town!Chicka. NONE. Why keep a Town vote thief alive?
Scum!Me would have felt obliged to bus Scum!Chicka and get to the night phase. 5-2-1 isn't all that bad considering I was being widely TR'd myself. Tomorrow we would have been 4-2-1 and one mislynch is all we needed to win still.

That's a big bucket of WIFOM, it could be anything from bad play by chicka to a masterfully crafted plan by scum orchestrated last night. Trying to sow confusion with WIFOM?? Ok.

Also, you were not being widely town read, I started suspecting you fairly early this day today. You were widely town read yesterday, not today.

[Javajoe24]

Let's think of this:

Case against A50, you were put at L-1 and even someone tried to quick hammer you, and yet you still have not claimed any kind of role other than your CPR ability you received from desperado. If you were truly town you would have claimed after the attempted quick hammer, but even now instead of claiming you are trying to tell us to lynch you and see what you flip? Sounds like a scum play to me to make us second guess and/or feel sorry for you. Claim something already.

Case against Chicka, you say you vote conservatively, you have been town reading A50 all game, and yet when he gets to L-2 you try to double vote and quick hammer him. This makes absolutely no sense, and do not play dumb, you know full well on this site you are expected to claim intent to hammer before you hammer for 2 main reasons: to give the player a chance to claim and defend themselves, and also to give players voting them a chance to unvote if they were only voting for pressure. This quick hammer was a 100% scum claim.

Now the real question is can these two be scum together? The answer is definitely yes. If you look at their voting history, and the way they have been defending each other up until this point, you can tell that they are most likely both scum. Not good enough of a case, ok. How about this: If you were town with a CPR ability given to you, would you use it the first night you got it with not much info to go on and many more town roles out there than scum? I think not. Would you steal a persons vote you find scummy and then not pressure them with that vote you stole? I think not. Would you quick hammer someone without giving intent and say "sorry, not sorry"? I think not. If you were scum and coming under heavy pressure where you think you will be killed would you try to put as much distance between you and your partner as you can? Most definitely.

Here is what I think has happened. Chicka has been coming under pressure ever since yesterday, A50 has been trying to shield her as much as he can, but then started coming under pressure himself. Chicka saw that they were too closely related so she "quick hammered" A50 knowing full well that it was not an actual hammer in hopes that people would unvote him and switch to her because she acted so scummy. She wants to keep A50 alive over herself because he has a second kill ability which is more useful than her ability. They are both aligned with the mafia and we need to take them both out, but A50 needs to go down first. Don't be fooled by chickas ruse.

[Javajoe24]

How about this: If you were town with a CPR ability given to you, would you use it the first night you got it with not much info to go on and many more town roles out there than scum? I think not.

the thing is, if you were scum and Desp gave you CPR and it wasn't really crumbed/outed in the thread, why wouldn't you just kill Desperado and not even reveal that you received the CPR?

like I wouldn't rule out scum!A50 here but there are worlds where he's town. There are no worlds where that quickhammer attempt is town

Here is what I think has happened. Chicka has been coming under pressure ever since yesterday, A50 has been trying to shield her as much as he can, but then started coming under pressure himself. Chicka saw that they were too closely related so she "quick hammered" A50 knowing full well that it was not an actual hammer in hopes that people would unvote him and switch to her because she acted so scummy. She wants to keep A50 alive over herself because he has a second kill ability which is more useful than her ability. They are both aligned with the mafia and we need to take them both out, but A50 needs to go down first. Don't be fooled by chickas ruse.

Do you not have any thoughts about my point that we already have confirmed mechanisms for blocking/stopping a kill, but nothing as far as we know to stop a vote thief? Chick stealing from town is basically the same as a NK for all intents and purposes. Even if they were both confirmed scum, Chick would still be the correct lynch here because scum may not know who has a revive and/or who Desp might CPR.

However, YOU claimed to know who has the revive. Why didn't you consider that scum might try to kill whoever was gifted it?

I really don't want to lose to a Chick/Java/Snarky team on D2. Chick should be the lynch first and we litigate Almost tomorrow

Yes, I have thought about the possibility that scum could hit the person with the revive, but that is not something that we should count on. As to eliminating the vote thief, I am proposing that, but what good does it do town to eliminate the vote thief during the day when they have already stolen the vote instead of the person that can kill an extra townie at night if we let him live through the day. I am proposing killing A50 today, and having Desperado kill Chicka tonight. Yes, Chicka is scum guaranteed, and I am not trying to say otherwise, I am simply saying it is more important for town to eliminate scum's second night kill over a vote thief that has already used her ability today. Your defense of A50 and trying to get us to lynch Chicka instead is making me suspect you as the scum 3rd person. Right now the 3rd person is between Guilty Lion, Creature, and Snarky Snowman. One of those three is scum, one is goo, and the other is town, at least from my perspective.

[Javajoe24]

We need your input though because you are one of the two confirmed townies.... Like we would like to make sure you know that if Chicka doesn't die today that she needs to be killed tonight, and you are the only one confirmed in the town that has a killing role.

[Javajoe24]

Nother thought. If A50 is scum, we must lynch scum. If he's town, I think we have a little lee way.

If Podo had an investigatory role as we suspect, him investigating Creature does make some sense. Now if Creature is Goo, then Creature obviously isn't scum. So he can't be one of Chick's partners. So unless A50 and Chick are both scum, I don't know who Chick's partners are.

What do you mean by the first paragraph? Can you elaborate a bit?

[Javajoe24]

Ok, so here is something I am putting down to help myself, but may help other people. This is assuming both A50 and chicka are scum like I am sure they are.

We lynch A50 today, and desperado kills Chicka tonight: 4-1-1

We lynch chicka today and desperado kills A50 tonight: 3-1-1

We lynch A50 today, and desperado does not kill anyone tonight: 4-2-1

We lynch chicka today and desperado does not kill anyone tonight: 3-2-1

Now everyone is clear that chicka is scum, so here is another chart with an assumption that A50 is town.

We lynch A50 today, and desperado kills Chicka tonight: 3-2-1

We lynch chicka today and desperado kills A50 tonight(and A50 kills a townie): 2-2-1

We lynch chicka today and desperado kills A50 tonight(and A50 kills scum): 3-1-1

We lynch chicka today and desperado kills A50 tonight(and A50 kills no one): 3-2-1

We lynch A50 today, and desperado does not kill anyone tonight: 3-3-1

We lynch chicka today and desperado does not kill anyone tonight, and A50 kills a townie: 3-2-1

We lynch chicka today, desperado does not kill anyone and A50 kills a scum: 3-1-1

We lynch chicka today, both desperado and A50 do not kill anyone: 4-2-1

So basically if A50 is scum the best thing we can do is lynch him today over chicka, and if he is not scum then other than hoping that A50 hitting scum our best bet is the same strategy

[Javajoe24]

Massive SRs A50, but doesn't vote him.

Yeah well I had my vote stolen so I kinda CAN'T. Come on son.

I am proposing killing A50 today, and having Desperado kill Chicka tonight. Yes, Chicka is scum guaranteed, and I am not trying to say otherwise, I am simply saying it is more important for town to eliminate scum's second night kill over a vote thief that has already used her ability today.

I can't decide if this is town-clever or scum-clever. What do you propose happens if A50 flips town?

Read previous post

[Javajoe24]

Yes, chickadee needs to die tonight regardless.

[Javajoe24]

That 3-3-1 in scum A50 would not happen because it assumes that chickadee would not be killed overnight, which would not happen

[Javajoe24]

The auto loss you speak of would also rely on chickadee not being night killed, which is so unlikely it is negligible. So basically your whole arguement is flawed

[Javajoe24]

Do you honestly believe A50 is town with the way he has been playing lately? If so please explain.

[Javajoe24]

Snarky cannot be goo because podo cleared him yesterday which means that he visited him N1 and by your own admission we only had one goo on D1. This leaves goo between Guilty Lion and creature (from my perspective)

[Javajoe24]

I find it odd people keep ignoring my important questions I have asked them, like A50 claiming and why Guilty Lion seems to be town reading A50. Granted GL hasn't had as long to respond, but A50 has had all the time in the world...

[Javajoe24]

Can you explain why you would be voting me?

[Javajoe24]

I am simply trying to do the best thing for the town by eliminating their second night kill. If A50 were a townie don't you think scum would have hammered by now? But both wagons are scum and I am tired of repeating myself, so if by day end people are still unwilling to kill A50 I will vote Chicka instead.

[Javajoe24]

Put it this way, if you are saying A50 is town, you are saying the scum team is me, creature, and Chickadee, as we all are voting A50 and scum has had plenty of time to hammer. Do you honestly think that team is possible??

[Javajoe24]

Also, I'm aiming for the scum that can't recruit town and has nightkill power.

Explain what you mean by this, what makes you think scum has a recruiting ability?

[Javajoe24]

Here is a thought I hadn't considered.... what if chickadee is goo?

[Javajoe24]

Never mind, that's a stupid idea

[Javajoe24]

This town is bad. This town is very very bad.

Quote for truth here, Chick hasn't been town all game, attempts a blatant scum quickhammer, and yet it feels like I have to pull teeth to get people to vote her

Snarky should just replace out honestly, is this seriously how you always play?

anyway I'm on vacation this weekend so I'll be around in the mornings but can't post much outside of that

I have been saying chicka is scum, and I even said if no one was going to listen to me by day end I would settle for a lynch on her.

[Javajoe24]

I agree with your conclusion, but I would just like to point out a couple of your numbers are wrong, both for not accounting for chickas vote thief and just a couple of simple errors. It basically comes to the same end result though.

[Javajoe24]

Is all A50 and SS going to do is prd dodge? How about some actual info. I have been waiting on a claim from you A50

[Javajoe24]

I never said GL was goo. I explicitly said it was Creature, and only Creature.

We know it's not you (not visiting ability) and not Desp (he still had his abilities on D1). It's not GL (I visited him N0) and it isn't me (I used my CPR last night). It isn't Chicka or massive (she stole his vote), and it isn't SS (podo supposedly visited him on N0). Java supposedly knows who received a BP so is not goo either. It's Creature and he should not be targeted by Town at night.

This is a very good point, I already assumed it was creature but that is proof

[Javajoe24]

UNVOTE:

Just until I consider your claim and figure out a couple of other factors.

[Javajoe24]

We have more than 6 days left in the day, why do you and A50 sound like your want the day to end already?

[Javajoe24]

So you are saying that you thought the game had ended already?

[Javajoe24]

If you were town you would be actively trying to help us even if we don't believe you so that we have info when you flip.

And thank you Desperado for seeing things from my point of view. Do you agree that since both A50 and chicka are scum it is more important that we kill A50 today over chicka. So far, the two people pushing hardest to lynch chicka over A50 is GL and A50. A50 is understandable, GL is not. Also, did you guys not notice that A50 when put under pressure and put up to L-1 actively tried to convince us it was a bad idea to night kill chickadee, even when he was voting chickadee?

[Javajoe24]

If you were town you would be actively trying to help us even if we don't believe you so that we have info when you flip.

And thank you Desperado for seeing things from my point of view. Do you agree that since both A50 and chicka are scum it is more important that we kill A50 today over chicka. So far, the two people pushing hardest to lynch chicka over A50 is GL and A50. A50 is understandable, GL is not. Also, did you guys not notice that A50 when put under pressure and put up to L-1 actively tried to convince us it was a bad idea to night kill chickadee, even when he was voting chickadee?

no

better to kill chick today and then force almost to double cross me with the cpr ability

Can you please explain this because I just don't understand how that is better

Also, are you claiming to have given GL CPR? If so, that is such a bad idea, I am thinking he is the 3rd scum...

[Javajoe24]

If anything, give Brie your CPR role as she is confirmed town...

[Javajoe24]

I will admit that I am less confident in you being scum than I am with chicka being scum, which is why I have unvoted for now

[Javajoe24]

Intent to hammer

[Javajoe24]

I do not intend to lynch right now and will give you time to catch up.

[Javajoe24]

Why doesn't everyone make a list of 2 people that they would like to lynch and then we lynch the person that we vote the most of?

Mine would be 1. Almost50 2. Chicka

[Javajoe24]

And that's hammer I believe.

alright Chick explain yourself, did you believe it was a hammer when you said this or was it an intentional lie

Which do you think it was now?

[Javajoe24]

Why doesn't everyone make a list of 2 people that they would like to lynch and then we lynch the person that we vote the most of?

why don't you quit finding reasons to avoid voting Chicka and vote Chicka

Before I gave intent when she was at L-1, which is basically the same as voting her. Also, since she is no longer at L-1 I feel comfortable to vote her.

VOTE: Chicka

I would still rather a A50 lynch today but willing to settle for chicka.

[Javajoe24]

VOTE: A50

[Javajoe24]

ok, so one of the CPR's needs to kill Chicka tonight, but only one.

[Javajoe24]

Probably a scumclaim from Snarky since he knows as well as anyone moving onto A50 that Chickadee would have come on and hammered him.

it was actually joe who voted almost

Yes, and I have been pushing an A50 lynch all day....

[Javajoe24]

Desperado, give your CPR to someone you trust if you want them to kill chicka tonight, if you want to kill her yourself do not give out your ability. That way two CPR roles won't both target chicka tonight.

[Javajoe24]

We got lucky when Joe killed GL. I'm pretty sure he wasn't especially trying to.

You are wrong here, I was trying to kill him, because at that point I knew the scum team and knew he had to be scum. I was hoping to either kill or investigate, but hopefully kill.