Mini 1922: Bondage & Discipline (Game over!)

[Dragnalus]

Oh good god.

Replace out

Before you leave, you should signal to me what incoming disaster that you were trying to avoid.

[Dragnalus]

If carca wants to waste all her posts then by all means she can go ahead. Based on what she's saying, I honestly don't think she will be a strong asset. I don't even really want to entertain anything she has said and just hope she keeps talking to herself until the mod tells her to stop.

People are going to use the post restrictions as an advantage to not talk, which is what my main concern is. I don't want that become a timely excuse because it obstructs information we can get from other players. I'm not really thinking too hard about my post-count because it's not relevant until I get close to my cap, and I don't think others should be either. That being said, I think scum has more incentive to burn through posts than town, referring to what I said earlier. Do I think all scum will use this tactic? Unlikely. If I didn't know any better, I'd be suspecting Carca and Vedith from the start, but more specifically Vedith who highlighted that 'people will call you scum for this' because it's a very awkward thing to say, especially to not question carca directly if you really believe that. Did he really believe that? I don't know. He's

silly

and so is Carca.

[Dragnalus]

Socrates brings up a great point, one that crossed my mind earlier.

In that game, the town was so paralyzed by the post limitations that the mafia (me) was basically able to stomp them with a perfect victory. (Not_Mafia might have had a teency bit to do with it, too.) Everybody lurked, and nobody even approached their posting limit.

I've stated that the limit didn't matter much to me, but it could prove arbitrary. I initially wanted to wait something out, but I don't think I have that luxury here. I've made some observations about some people I wanted to withhold, but running it through my head the umpteenth time isn't doing us any good. In some way, me being meticulous and planning actually works against me in this type of format because I can't merely sit and wait for something to happen. I would advise anyone to not do the same, without making it seem like I'm trying to preach to the choir.

I don't like CommKnight's start, because he essentially reiterated what I previously said. His type of behavior reminds me of scum who wishes to be helpful, but doesn't really say anything. It could be presumptuous of me to make such a bold statement on one post, but I digress. I often find that scum will try and ask the mod mundane questions about the setup or rules to seem like they're interested in things, just for it overall be pointless and never explained again. What's more is that his claims are really unhelpful, and that he takes a "we" approach instead of making his opinion seem more "I". It's the type of tone that comes from scum that wants to rally town but in the end not do much out of it. If anyone believes I'm full of shit, then feel free to challenge me.

Outside of that, I think Socrates' vote is decent if I'm thinking what he's thinking.

VOTE: CommKnight

[Dragnalus]

Another observation I'm making is that while Vedith and Carca are somewhat similar in their tone, the content of their posts are eerily different. Carca takes a less passive approach to the game, making claims that aren't substantiated but otherwise completely thought of in that moment. Vedith on the other hand chooses to be proactive in a different way, by taunting people about the postlimit and asking questions before making assumptions. I think the varying playstyle and approach could prove to be beneficial as the game progresses, but right now I like Carca more than Vedith, even if I don't necessarily agree with Carca most of the time.

[Dragnalus]

When I asked to be challenged, that was an open invitation to tell my why my push was wrong, or to generate discussion about it, but instead you've opted to just say that it's bad therefore I'm scum because of it. I'm looking at your joindate– this logic feels like I'm talking to a newbie right now.

[Dragnalus]

You missed the whole point of that post if you zeroed in on the fact I referred to his joindate. The point was is that his logic is reminiscent of a newbie, but his joindate clearly shows that he's been around the block a couple of times.

[Dragnalus]

I make a single post and already people are trying to scum-read me for it. Like you realize I happened to think about my idea before reading Drag's post and just so happens that they brought it up before me? Same with keeping track of post count, I was thinking that but before I got to put my first post up, someone already suggested it.

If me and Micheal putting a vote on you counts as people, I'd have to say that this is an overreaction at best. It seems you're focused on defending yourself and nothing but, because the majority of your post is just responding to micheal, who happened to be put some work on in on his reads of you. If you wanted me to like you more, you've failed on the front.

I mean he does have a fair amount once it's all said and done, but there's also so much useless and unneeded content in there as well. I'm still leaning Bulge and Drag a bit more though at the current moment for scum. They just stand out more like a sore thumb. Michael reads more of a trying townie who's just barking up the wrong tree.

I'm pretty sure you're grouping us together for no specific reason.

Also hey Aubrey, hopefully this time you're town with me.

See, this what I called you out for earlier. You're trying to rally town and trying to create groupthink while coasting and not offering much input yourself. You couldn't even state a reason as to why I was scum, only that others thought I was, therefore I must be. This is some shoddy work or some sloppy scumplay, and I'm leaning the latter because statements like these are fundamentally useless and only serve to push directives, the directive being that you're pretending to have town's best interest, even if that means trying to create a false dichotomy where 'others' scumread someone therefore your vote must be justified. Not impressed.

2/20 (Still conserving my votes since I'm both busy with work and would like to be able to reply more when we have more to work with.)

Well, this is just untrue. You voted me.

[Dragnalus]

The only thing you're good at thus far is overreacting.

[Dragnalus]

I don't want to have a snark battle with you, I just want to understand you better.

Let me be more direct: What is your reason for scumreading me aside from the fact that 'other people' do. You did not elaborate in this regard. Why is The Bulge for that matter someone who you're also scumreading? This is a lot more important than you calling me a dog and trying to dismantle my posts by attacking my diction.

[Dragnalus]

Willing to waste a post to state that I'm not a dragon. This has got to be the 5th time now someone has done this.

[Dragnalus]

It's very hard to understand your grievances midget, couldn't I say that you're scum for holding me only to stipulation that cannot be met based on the fact you don't elaborate why my behavior is scummy? I'm not going to do that however because I have you ultimately null because I want to believe you will stop posting your reads like you wrote them on the back of your hand to remind yourself what they are exactly when you need them.

Aubrey - scummy. they are p much pushing my townreads and all of their content is short responses that make content easy to fake.

This is a bit confusing to me. I don't see how someone is scummy because they disagree with you. Is this the foundation for thinking I'm scum? Makes sort of sense if I think about it, but I don't necessarily want to deal with it.

[Dragnalus]

By the way, CommKnight still hasn't presented the points on me he wanted to and has it been about ~3 IRL days since his last post. I'm not going to call this behavior as inherently scummy rather just a bit skeptical on someone who apparently is deadset on me being scum. This sort of makes me like randomidget a bit more, because at the least he cares enough to spew some reads out without it being forced, though I digress.

I haven't been able to get a solid beat on a majority of players, which is a problem. CommKnight is my focus for now because the others serve to have a lack of content or are merely representing their reads in a fashion that doesn't fully explain them. This is a pet peeve of mine, but I joined this game in hoping people would be a bit more clear. I'm not expecting a huge paragraph or thesis on why you think someone is scum, rather I just see a lot of adjectives being pulled out like 'this person's x is bad' without

telling

people why it is bad. Bins is a bit guilty of this too, but I understand why people like Verbs have been pinging her as I wasn't exactly impressed with their post.

In that regard, the thread still needs some room to grow before I sort everything out completely. Right now if I had to make a preemptive judgment on people, I'd say that I like micheal, understand carca's behavior (and disagree with the people who scumread her for it), not worried about randomidget, skeptical of Vedith and bins, and concerned about Aubrey and Socrates for reasons that aren't exactly scumreads. Aubrey is someone who I trust at the moment and Socrates is a special case where it feels like I am in a game with my alter-ego, and lord knows how to exactly read myself. Bulge's contrast to Bins about Verbs is pretty interesting and I would like to see how that develops, but moreso how Bins feels about Bulge having a dissenting opinion about it.

1. ThinkBig
2. CommKnight*
3. Aubrey
4. The Bulge
5. Pisskop*
6. ThinkBig

7. Socrates*

8. Vedith
9. Bins*
10. Randomidget

11. Carcalilly

12. Michael220mega*

13. Dragnalus

[Dragnalus]

wasted post

This post is a waste responding to your points but I'm gonna do it anyway.

huge discrediting on carca who was the most active player at the time.

You must've misread how I felt about Carca, because I came out of that suspecting Vedith a lot more than Carca, hence me saying

specifically.

If you got that confused, maybe that modifier in my sentence helps you understand that I was

specifically

highlighting Vedith who I felt was worse even if their behavior was similar.

his push seems odd. the whole reiterating points thing i disagree with as i think comm had a different point IMO. also buddying with socrates/hypocrisy when compared to his push on comm is poor.

So, the push is odd because you don't agree with it. I don't know how you're supposed to play Mafia if anyone who disagrees with you is scum, because that must mean you're wrong a lot of the time. How am I buddying with Socrates by saying that I think his vote is decent?
Is anyone who agrees with a vote buddying that player by default? I don't know if you really believe that (or at least I hope you don't) because that's pretty ridiculous. Dare I say that the person I'm pushing is actually guilty of buddying who mentioned Aubrey and said

"Hey Aubrey, hope you're town with me"

who is trying to appeal to Aubrey with statements like these for no discernable reason.

not necessarily AI but Comm does this as town.

What is it with you players and spewing AI constantly without it being given context. If this was a drinking game and someone justified not giving a proper read because something is not AI I'd have died of alcohol poisoning by now. I don't know Comm personally so you're either gonna have to tell me why Comm does it as town, and why that is so important on your read of him. I will say that most Mafia will try and emulate their town-game therefore Meta is a crapshoot and I don't particularly like relying on it.

discredittsssss

Is this your word of the day? I called something as I saw it which felt like a huge overreaction from CommKnight, but apparently in your eyes this means I'm discrediting them instead of merely making an argument. Fabulous detective work.

no. i thought you were scum and in 2:11 it makes sense that scum would be pushing town rather than bussing so it reinforces the read.

Give me a proper response instead of just rephrasing a way to think I'm scum. You don't have to beat me over the head with your read, so try again.

[Dragnalus]

Responding to wallposts I shouldn't is my fulltime job now.

Wasted post. Literally nothing added to the game here. Why not ask them post-game or at least wait till you had something else to say before including that in it?

Why is this coming up now, 4 pages later? You had all the chance in the world to comment on this but you chose instead to agree with me. How is this even important to discerning my alignment or even indicative of my motive?

Speaking of wasting posts, refer to post #7. Not only that, but you're going to commit to ignore someone early game? You can walk yourself up to the noose with a policy lynch for that alone. You don't just ignore people.

...How is this telling of me being scum? I'm a policy lynch now despite you having all the chance in the world to stick your neck out and say something. This again begs the question of why

now

. I feel like you're only doing this because you realize you haven't been putting in as much effort as you could. I would've liked this effort more however if it didn't come from absolutely nowhere. I don't see how this is a point against me being mafia, or even being a point of you reading what I said. I wrote that post and I'm honestly trying to understand where you got that I was going to ignore those slots, please tell me?

So followed by two

bad posts

is a 3rd

bad post

that ends up voting me because you think my post is

bad

? Not only that but I'm posting MY ideas into the thread. So I'm scummy for that? Sorry for having thoughts that were similar to yours but different at the same time. Also yes, WE. As in WE THE PEOPLE. That might seem a bit crazy but gee golly that's what I said and that's how I meant it. WE THE TOWN.

You have to understand that when someone questions you or dislikes something you do, it is not a personal attack against you. So far that is how I've read your response to me, and it's that you're very upset that I happen to not like your posts...therefore I'm scum for it. You haven't even bothered to offer reasoning why I have scum intent to dislike these posts, only that it came from you who I should assume is town, therefore anyone who dislikes you is by default scummy. I really don't want to work against you which is why I tried to get direct questions instead of pussyfooting.

Wah wah. You don't like my posts and your reasoning is bad.

I'm alright with being bad, but I'd love to have someone actually tell me why it's bad so people can gain more than a pissing contest. The fact of the matter is I'm not gaining nothing to disarm you by writing up the equivalent of "I'm sorry I hurt your feelings".

A post I actually can agree with this dragon on. I do like Car's play better than Vedith's but perhaps I'm too use to Vedith being scum/scummy and have had experience with them as such.

You should focus on doing this more often instead of the other examples I quoted. Why do you like Carc's play better than Vedith, and what does that say about me? I looked over your reasoning for Carca and they're all very surface level, making idle comments such as "Shitposting is always town", but doesn't that contradict you thinking Vedith is worse? They were both shitposting at this time, and you came out of it neutral. I've played with a lot of people but I need to understand where you go from Point A -> Point B there, because all I have to go off is that you're too used to them being scummy (yet you don't tell us why this is) and that you have experience with them. Can you tell me what experience you have with them and how it defines your read?

Your case was essentially. "He reiterated what I said, his post was bad and he seems like someone trying to SEEM helpful". But hey, someone calling your case bad isn't good. I seem to recall multiple people not liking your first case on me at all. The only reason they like it now is because I've been too busy to make THIS post until now.

I'm not really feeling the heat here, though. I don't know if you think Mafia is a game of champions where your pride is on the line, but I honestly just want to understand you better, and I can't help but being a bit snarky and a jackass but it keeps a bit sane at times. I've never once called you bad or said that your post was merely bad, which is why I'm highlighting how many times you've said that word to show how obtuse you're being.

I'm sure you've been around the block a few times as well, but your case seems newbier than a green outfitted level 3 bald player on Runescape named rfbjv355 chopping yew trees at level 3 combat with a bronze axe. (If you don't get this reference, don't bother to try it's not there anymore).

Didn't get your reference. I don't know where you think I'm making a case on you, or why you insist on saying it's bad and thinking that instantly makes it so. You have four votes on you for a reason.

I already replied to this post. This was an utter shit-show of semantics that I replied sarcastically to

because of how bad it was.

Like I already RIPPED into you over this post. I don't think I need to spend more time on it.

I'm sorry you didn't like my post, but as you can see you've used up your quota for how many times you can reiterate that something was bad, so please think of another word to describe your problems with me.

Well you didn't like when I called you a person, therefore, you are now a dragon.

Was this really on your priority for why I'm scum, calling me a dragon? I don't really know if your surly behavior is indicative of alignment but perhaps someone wants to pitch in on about that.

Basically just not liking Random's posts.

..Huh? I'm trying to understand what case you're trying to make here right now. I'm bad and I don't like posts = therefore scum. Is that the summary of your apparent wall that you put a lot of effort in? I didn't even necessarily say that I didn't like his post, rather I gave some snark because I felt he coulda done a lot more.

Here I am. I'll make sure to end up giving you hell on the last part of this ISO post.

You really gave it to me. I didn't get anything out of it, but you sure like yelling in my ear. I hope you take something out of this and respond to me more efficiently and realize that I'm not out to skin you alive.

I love how you're STILL on about my comment to Aubrey. Are you looking for more sarcasm? You must be. Well here it is. HEY AUBREY, LET'S BE BUDDIES AND LYNCH THIS DRAGON TOGETHER. He obviously can't read me worth a damn.

- Overall he tries to seem active and like he's building a case. But he focused on myself and anyone who goes after him. In his ISO I have not read anywhere where he even looked into The Bulge, pisskop or Verbs. Which if Dragon flips scum, I'd look into the three of them immediately. There's others he has mentioned but really hasn't gone into any details with or tried to discuss anything with them.

I'm only going based on what I know and making assumptions as I go along. I commented on the fact you still haven't done anything and that it bothered me, furthermore, my intention was never to fully build a case. I think that's something you told yourself because I had a couple of scathing words, but instead of considering why I said those things, you focused on the fact I said them to you in a way that wasn't positive. I respond to people because I want to understand them and I don't think treating the thread like some place where you individualize yourself and not interact with others is good. I'm not going to ignore someone unless I absolutely feel like they are unwilling to cooperate or discuss things, and right now I am very close to doing that with you, but I am giving you a chance. I haven't looked into The Bulge Pisskop or Verbs? Where are you getting that? I made an idle comment on The Bulge and Pisskop/Verbs has 1-2 posts. Maybe you think it's hypocritical that I focused on you instead of them and somehow got a lot of your one post, but the fact of the matter is that you happened to ping me and the others haven't so much. I talked about this in the post you referenced (#95) where people aren't explaining themselves enough or have a lack of content for me to fully gauge them. I will say that I'm waiting on Bins/Bulge to interact a bit more, which I alluded to that I was interested in the disconnect they had wrt Verbs.

Right now, I don't really see me changing my mind on you, but declaring war and going back and forth isn't gonna do me much good. I don't think your points are thought-out and very petty considering how much you want it to seem like you were 'raping' everyone with the amount of content you made. I want to hear from people in regards to your meta, because Vedith said something interesting about it without fully saying what it is.

[Dragnalus]

Going to make some comments on players while I'm at it.

The Bulge is someone who I'm currently waiting for to do more, but as it stands I like him. My reasoning for that is actually based on his interaction with Bins, wherein I feel that he is being reasonable towards her instead of instantly assuming that Bin's push is bad therefore she is scummy for it. You could say it's just general good behavior, and that I want to keep people around who show good behavior. Lean town.

Bins is a contrast to this, wherein I am trying to understand her angle. Attacking Verbs on a post that essentially could be made from any inexperienced town or scum is a point Bulge brought up, but it seems that Bins is quite convicted about this. I agree with her in the sense that it wasn't good, but something that being good doesn't always mean that it is scum. Her urgency for people to ISO verbs based on the one post is a bit alarming to me, and I don't particularly like it, given that she is essentially saying to ISO a single post from someone who had been replaced thereafter. This makes me question if she is genuinely town who is trying to cast concern on someone she thinks is scum, or scum who is just pushing an easy read to seem like they're doing something. Null.

I said that I raised concern towards Aubrey, and it's only because I feel that he is approaching the thread at all angles, but hasn't really lead on what it all means. His play is fine, and I suppose him voting someone who I scumread is fine too, but I have paranoia about him that will become even more in the event of Comm being town. If I were to think about the two, it's increasingly weird from Comm how he spends all this time talking up Aubrey despite the fact he dislikes him. Does anyone think that these two could be aligned? Essentially, comm's flip will determine how I feel about him more. Null leaning town on scumComm flip.

Randomidget confuses me, but I think Vedith said he's town or is displaying townie motivation? I don't think he's really thought about his posts and I was scratching my head at the fact he self-voted afterward and gave up. I don't know if that's an appeal but I sort of feel like scum would try a bit harder to sell his point, so maybe there's some reasoning behind it after all. I'd like Vedith in particular to talk more about this. Lean town.

I have nothing in-depth to talk about Socrates, ThinkBig and Verbs for as it currently stands, barring Socrates who I lightly touched upon.

Micheal has done a good job dissuading me if he's scum, or maybe he just really likes to type. Not a concern and not a play at this given moment. Town

Carca I initially liked but I'm scratching my head at her voting randomidget, and especially the tone she made. I don't think that vote comes from a partner capitalizing on a bus, rather it just seems awkward that him self-voting is what really set her off from being less silly. She's less of a townread because of this though I hold an opinion that her and Vedith aren't scum together, and that I still don't really care for Vedith. This section of my post can double into how I feel about Vedith, and it's that his post was low-effort, but that I'm interested into seeing his reasoning on Socrates. More null on Cara based on this development and leaning scum on Vedith still.

I think that's everyone.

[Dragnalus]

Hello CommKnight. You seemed to have missed my response to you in #121. Please get back to me as soon you can.

[
Vedith clearly decided I was scum and has backfilled all his perceptions of me to fit that narrative. Whereas RM says he instinctively townreads my playstyle, I suspect Vedith is the opposite. I also resent the notion that I have done nothing, and I'm still relatively confident in my assertion that the real scum aren't even posting.

You should talk about this point more when you get the chance.

[Dragnalus]

I don't know why people are content with CommKnight actively ignoring me and goading me by misspelling my name. I even mentioned to him to get back to me about my post in response to him, and you would think a townie would care about what their scumread says to develop their read further, but that simply isn't the case. It's giving me an eyesore to see and hear people say they like/dislike something without fully explaining why it is (*cough* Bins *cough*).

[Dragnalus]

If I have to exasperate, I will.

If you don't like my case on the dragon, then bring your own case to the table on someone else. Trying to case me for not having the best case is the best and sure fire way to make me not trust in your future reads that you pull out of your ass. You know one thing I don't get asked by people who scum read me? They don't present a case to me and ask my opinion on it.

They just want to rip on my case and me because it's the easiest cop-out in mafia history. "Let's not make an original case guys, that'd be too complicated."

I already responded to your shitty case long ago and yet you still remain obstinate as if you're in any position to talk. I don't really like being ignored so hopefully me quoting once again will get you to stop taking the easy way out and feigning like you actually care. Show me you care. I don't understand why you hopped off me without even having a formal discussion, unless in your head you decided I am not as scummy as Perisvul, but that begs the question why that is. This is something you need to tell others because I can't read your mind, and I don't like playing this way where I feel I need to tell people basic fundamentals on how to play Mafia. This is the last time I am going go give you the chance to respond to me, and if you don't do it you are submitting to the fact you are Mafia and you don't have an argument.

[Dragnalus]

I won't settle until CommKnight is willing to compromise with me. I understand this may equate to stubbornness but I don't feel anything he said could not be done by someone who is Mafia trying to weasel out of a lynch. I need to see and hear a lot more than just bellyaching.

[Dragnalus]

I don't believe in the idea of scumreading someone means that you can't be reasonable towards them. More often than not, misconceptions happen because people don't talk things out or try and reach an understanding. I haven't seen a reason to back off therefore I am looking for him to give me a proper one so I can better understand his slot. Right now I read him as someone who gets frustrated easily, has nothing particularly interesting to say, and has an approach to the game where he condemns everyone for misreading him despite his shortcomings. Am I supposed to believe these actions are inherently town? I'd really like to hope not because then Mafia would hardly had to do anything as long as they pretended to care.

[Dragnalus]

I don't believe in Mafia where you isolate certain players based on how you feel about them. There is always a chance to be wrong and I won't ignore that chance if I can see through their behavior. Town only gains through ample discussions, not just gut feelings and perception.

[Dragnalus]

Vote: Socrates

[Dragnalus]

Vote: CommKnight

[Dragnalus]

How convenient you pop in to further your agenda without doing anything I asked you to in the first place. I don't usually do this but you're actually a moron and I hope for your sake you're scum. I wanted to vote Socrates because I agreed with persivul that the day should end, nothing more and nothing less. I hopped back because I want you more therefore if I can't end the day I'll gladly continue to sit on you.

@Mod

This post only counts as a warning and not a modkill, based on the fact that we were given one extra post and we're allowed to make one more that only results in a warning. I won't abuse this and only did it to make a point.

[Dragnalus]

Nah, I'm not being modkilled. At #187 I was at 20 posts.

Players who exceed their post limit once will be warned.

Players who exceed their post limit twice will be modkilled.

This gives me 21 posts.

You all currently have Post Limit +1 posts available to you.

This gives me an extra post on top of the warning.

Single votes don't count as posts, and since then I have only made 20 posts. I was aware of this but didn't want to correct the mod initially and keep it ambiguous. If I was scum I could've easily used this to be townread by faking that I was gonna be modkilled, but instead I want to use my extra posts for something useful and to explain myself, which is a lot more important to me. This post I'm making right now counts as 22.

Quote edited
- Ari

[Dragnalus]

Am I hammered? I'm town. No idea why I was switched to when I already explained to everyone why I wouldn't act in the way I did if I was scum. This is the 2nd time I've been flashwagoned D1 for no discernible reason. CommKnight is a moron, please kill or ignore the slot at earliest convenience.

There has to be some scum on me right now so pay attention to how it happened and the phrasing of it more specifically. I don't mind dying if people use my flip to gain information out of it.

[Dragnalus]

I'm already dead and hammered so I don't imagine restrictions apply anymore, and people should use this to their advantage too. I'd be lying if I said that my reads developed in a way I wanted them to, but there's only 2 scum this game and I've already explained the grime that is CommKnight. If by chance he's a moron, look into someone like Vedith/Carca more, where my read on the latter has diminished over time due to their behavior. I don't have a solid beat on who his partner could be, but bins hammer is the least scummy in my eyes if I had to base it on how I was lynched.

[Dragnalus]

Thinking game can be won lynching between jjh, CommKnight, Carca, and Socrates.

JJH's vote and demeanor is the most striking to me, where he decided I was the lynch based on the fact I was only going to be modkilled. When we got into confrontation, he seemed very passive and didn't take the chance to question me on disagreements and instead talked to me in a way that came off as a lecture instead of conversation. This behavior does not bode well for jjh based on what I know of him so consider my suspicion a bit of meta. Let it be stated that CommKnight still needs to die regardless.

[Dragnalus]

Actually, scratch off Carca. I still feel decently good about that slot for some reason, at least in retrospect of Comm being scum. I'm basing a lot of my reads on this assumption, actually.

[Dragnalus]

I think it's less about his vote and more about how it was processed.