Mini Theme 1915: TAZ Mafia: Here There Be Gerblins [done]

[Backhand]

*Rushes to thread to be first to make this joke*

I cast

Zone of Truth

Should be a quick game.

[Backhand]

Vote Albert B. Rampage

Asking a question and then complaining about cluttering the thread booooooooooooooo

[Backhand]

Vote Albert B. Rampage

Asking a question and then complaining about cluttering the thread booooooooooooooo

What about 21 seems like complaining to you? The way I see it, the tone looks like he's just scolding me and FA. After all, both me and FA can post a lot, not to mention I have a disgusting 73.17 posts per day, which is a lot, and I'm trying to post less in general because I want to lower that

Why do you feel the need to defend me here against ABR's accusations?

No defense! Strictly offense. And complaining and scolding don't seem very far away from each other, but your mileage may vary.

[Backhand]

Some old and new faces....I'm looking forward to this game.

Creative....if Varsoon is mafia....why no vote?

I find early votes quite useless, as just voting on someone like that don´t generate any pressure whatsoever, calling someone mafia is way more powerful, even if you present no reasoning

What if I say you're mafia *and* vote for you?

Vote Creative

Strongly disagree on your "no early vote" policy. Not every vote comes with pressure, but especially Day 1 pretty much all pressure should come with a vote, it makes it easier to reconstruct the narrative of the day looking back.

[Backhand]

I mean, i don´t mind people doing it, is not like it is a policy or anything, i just don´t value my votes that low.
What narrative are you referring to? How is your aproach in solving the game?

I think saying "I think this person is scummy" without voting for them allows you to play it both ways later. They flip scum? "Look, I said they were scummy." They flip town? "I never voted for them." Put your money where your mouth is.

47 -

@Creative

- disagree. RVS is a great way to kick off the game. Even if the votes don't generate pressure, they can generate reactions, and those reactions are what is important, because with those reactions we can play mafia

51 -

@Backhand

- I'm having trouble understanding why what you think Creative is saying is scummy. Can you expand on this?

I mean, I don't think its all that scummy, see your own statement above I do think its a playstyle that scum can take advantage of (like lurking), so I like to poke at it when I see it.

[Backhand]

That is very simple minded, if that is the case you can aply this WIFOM logic to any pressure that ever occurs in the game, you are again going with the assumption that i hold voting in the same realm of values that you do. IMO voting is the strongest weapon i have, and most of the times i don´t feel lke killing an ant with a bazooka.

Elaborate? I don't see how its WIFOM--if you did vote for someone, you can't claim that you didn't.

[Backhand]

Vote Creative

Strongly disagree on your "no early vote" policy. Not every vote comes with pressure, but especially Day 1 pretty much all pressure should come with a vote, it makes it easier to reconstruct the narrative of the day looking back.

This is a stupid reason to vote someone. Do you actually think Creative is scum?

A. Asked and answered
B. Your current vote is "for the wagonz"

[Backhand]

Where?
My current vote isn't serious. Good deflection attempt though.

VOTE: Backhand

I mean, I don't think its all that scummy, see your own statement above I do think its a playstyle that scum can take advantage of (like lurking), so I like to poke at it when I see it.

Backhand is an alt or a new player on the site?

'Alt' but haven't played on the site in a very long time (except the other game I signed up for with this name)

[Backhand]

Vote Creative

Strongly disagree on your "no early vote" policy. Not every vote comes with pressure, but especially Day 1 pretty much all pressure should come with a vote, it makes it easier to reconstruct the narrative of the day looking back.

This is a stupid reason to vote someone. Do you actually think Creative is scum?

A. Asked and answered
B. Your current vote is "for the wagonz"

really bad answer.

If you say so. In my return I'm finding myself pretty turned off by the negativity in games (maybe I'm getting sensitive now I'm a little older and remembering the past with some rose-colored glasses, but I feel like people were nicer on site back then), so I'm going to be terse at it.

[Backhand]

I meant if it was already answered you can quote it again - not just saying it was already answered

and the second reason was really off tbh

I'm not trying to be mean when pointing that out.

I generally got a better feeling about you when you claimed your an alt cause new players won't usually go this wild. whats your reads on other people beside creative, friend?

No, not you! I just mean that when someone says "your vote is stupid, do you even think they're scum" and like three posts down I said "I don't really think they're scum" you might get a dismissive response.

Half the game has only posted once or twice, so they all need to speak up at some point. I think alisae was a *little* too quick to say that me and creative are TvT, I'd call that a slight cause for concern.

[Backhand]

I mean him bringing up my non-serious vote from earlier seemed like a blatant attempt to get me on the defensive.

You're not wrong--when people are on the defensive is when you get actual information. That and being a little annoyed at the question.

[Backhand]

How tf did you get from answering a question I asked you to trying to extract information from me?

We're all constantly trying to extract information from each other, I'm not sure why you think that is strange.

Creative's last post is good and I like it.

[Backhand]

@Backhand

- you never addressed my concern about 67. Why? And can you address it? That would make Alisaes really happy

I was saying "you're calling

my

vote stupid?"

That's obvious, you missed my point.
I don't get how you went, "oh he's asking me a question about a weird vote I made, better try to 'get info' from him".

I'm still missing it, I think. Why would I not try to do that? For that matter, why was my vote weird? How do you prefer to get a day 1 rolling?

[Backhand]

HEAL: Frozen Angel
Okay.
The way I interpreted that response as "Your vote is bad too" as a way to discredit Cakez and make it seem like what he's saying doesn't matter.
Why approach Cakez this way?

I don't know about discredit, but I didn't find it a very relevant inquiry given what his vote was and that he asked a question I had already answered.

And I didn't say I thought either of our votes were bad. It was Page 3! You could vote for almost any reason at that point and I'd be OK with it.

[Backhand]

Ehhhh Cakez, I don't think that was weird personally.
I feel like they were trying to poke the playstyle to see if they were approaching the game with that playstyle because of alignment or because that's just how they approach the game.

Ding ding ding! It seems like cakez is trying to draw a very distinct line between "this is a random vote, pay no attention" and "this is a serious vote and I am trying to get you lynched." There's a long gray area where I think "I didn't like this theory thing you said" is a perfectly valid reason to, as you say, poke.

[Backhand]

I think that people are making a bigger deal out of it than what it really is.
For instance, Dunnstral called this out, but Backhand is propping this argument that a push without a vote allows for a smokescreen regardless of flip, but that's flawed for two reasons:
1. Scum know what people will flip in a normal (non-multiball) game. If the argument is that they can get towncred regardless of flip, then that's implying they aren't aware of what the flip will be, reflecting a town PoV.
2. It's not even useful as a smokescreen because people can very easily call it out and have done so in the thread multiple times.

That is pretty far away from the thrust of my argument. I'm saying that it allows scum to exaggerate or downplay their involvement on a wagon, and make it difficult to reconstruct what happened. So its an anti-town move. In my opinion, clearly plenty of people disagree.

[Backhand]

Here's

all

of Post 57, nice edit job.

I mean, i don´t mind people doing it, is not like it is a policy or anything, i just don´t value my votes that low.
What narrative are you referring to? How is your aproach in solving the game?

I think saying "I think this person is scummy" without voting for them allows you to play it both ways later. They flip scum? "Look, I said they were scummy." They flip town? "I never voted for them." Put your money where your mouth is.

47 -

@Creative

- disagree. RVS is a great way to kick off the game. Even if the votes don't generate pressure, they can generate reactions, and those reactions are what is important, because with those reactions we can play mafia

51 -

@Backhand

- I'm having trouble understanding why what you think Creative is saying is scummy. Can you expand on this?

I mean, I don't think its all that scummy, see your own statement above I do think its a playstyle that scum can take advantage of (like lurking), so I like to poke at it when I see it.

So am I flip flopping, or in the very next post did I say "I don't think its all that scummy"

[Backhand]

And if you're just trying to posture that Creative's play is very anti-town, then why have you called it scum time and time again?

I haven't called it scum time and time again?

Like, literally, is it not 'all that scummy' or is it that the thrust of your argument is that Creative's play "allows scum to exaggerate or downplay their involvement on a wagon, and make it difficult to reconstruct what happened. So its an anti-town move."

On this page alone you've been incredibly inconsistent, m8.

Its both! Being hesitant with your vote is a not terribly alignment-indicative move that allows scum to exaggerate or downplay their involvement on a wagon.

Backhand have you played with anyone here before? Any thoughts on them?

Yours is the only username I recognized. And if we played a game, it was in like 2009 so I do not remember the details. But my thoughts on you are vaguely positive, you seem to be asking good questions.

[Backhand]

I'm trying to wrap my head around your casing here, of which your defense seems to be that:
Creative is scum
Creative's push against me without a vote is NAI, but because it's NAI, it's an effective scum strat


But regardless, that all falls apart when put under scrutiny, because, for Creative's play to be interpreted as NAI, you've got to have the assumption that they're posting from a town PoV.

Do you think creative's play indicates an alignment?

[Backhand]

That's kind of a dodge. Would you read Post 47 as indicating an alignment?

[Backhand]

In any event, I'm going to bed. This has been. . . fun? Or something.

[Backhand]

Ugh, this is such willful misreading I almost want to call it malicious.

What if I say you're mafia *and* vote for you?

Vote Creative

Yup, that's the one time. And I was reference Creatives "I find early votes quite useless, as just voting on someone like that don´t generate any pressure whatsoever,

calling someone mafia

is way more powerful, even if you present no reasoning

I do think its a playstyle that scum can take advantage of (like lurking), so I like to poke at it when I see it.

Can

take advantage of. Not always do, but

can

. Also in that post: "I don't think its all that scummy"

Do you actually think Creative is scum?

A. Asked and answered

By "I don't think its all that scummy"

Is it not 'all that scummy' or is it that the thrust of your argument is that

Creative's play "allows scum to exaggerate or downplay their involvement on a wagon

, and make it difficult to reconstruct what happened. So its an anti-town move."

On this page alone you've been incredibly inconsistent, m8.

Its

both!

Being hesitant with your vote is a not terribly alignment-indicative move that allows

scum

to exaggerate or downplay their involvement on a wagon.

Not terribly alignment-indicative

. Lurking is also a playstyle that isn't very alignment-indicative but is good for scum. I'm sure people can think of others.

Anyway, you were concerned about me still voting for creative? I was a little bit busy, but while we were duking it out I was wondering "when is the quiet supporter going to come" And like a Chilean miner, emerging from the depths, he appeared!

I know I'm the only person who seems to be bothered by this, but slysly has a random vote on, gets bad vibes from me. . . but his abr vote is good? Almost like he wants to put off hopping on the wagon.

Vote slysly

[Backhand]

Anyway, you were concerned about me still voting for creative? I was a little bit busy, but while we were duking it out I was wondering "when is the quiet supporter going to come" And like a Chilean miner, emerging from the depths, he appeared!

THAT is awkward as hell

Its a McElroy reference. The lack of player flavor for this theme makes me sad.

I've been pretty happy with creatives play after voting him, actually. SlySly has mostly just been a sheep, wouldn't mind seeing him under the microscope.

[Backhand]

Um...
Thanks for the slysly vote,
but I kinda hate this reasoning for hopping on it. :[
Why would he wnat to put off hopping on the wagon? Why wouldn't he just do it?

Because in my, apparently super out of date and possibly no longer relevant, experience, scum like to encourage wagons on town while leaving as few fingerprints as possible.

ok backhand

I have no problem with flavor. I am accusing you of backtracking - jumping from a rooftop to catch a rope imo - I mean you obviously were getting some scum reads for voting creative so you just changed it and somehow magically stopped caring for creative which was the awkward part of it. also you dodged commenting on that accusation or my pov or the question at the end of it, nor you explained your current reads.

maybe a vote helps with that?

VOTE: backhand

But I never cared about creative all that much! Varsoon has acted or misread or whatever like I was making this gigantic push on creative, when all I was doing was making a pressure vote on Page 3. Which, I still think that making hesitant reads in the early game and not voting is not a great way to play, but we went back and forth about it a couple times, and he disagreed. Which is fine, I believe that he believes that. Since then, he's been a thoughtful player, I feel pretty good about him.

SlySly, on the other hand. . .

Random Vote
Vague hint that Dunnstral might maybe could be scummy but he's not really sure
Weird beetlejuice thing, which at best I can't see as much of a tell
(V/LA stuff)
Again, he's "not feeling positive vibrations" from me. So I might I guess be scummy maybe if two more people jump on he'll definitely think so?

That's what I'm reading.

[Backhand]

Like tbh. If you're town.
And I KNOW you will do this if you are.
You will obvtown to me.
And you aren't doing that.
Why aren't you doing that?

Alisae, day 1 what qualifies as obvtown for you that you honestly think FA couldn't fake?

[Backhand]

For the record, I don't think you were making a giant push, I think that the logic of your push is inconsistent and only works from a scum point of view.

Grr, that's because you've continuously misread the logic of what I'm saying. Creative, *if* he were scum, could be using this behavior whether or not the person he was targeting was town or a scumbuddy. Not that Creative as scum is waiting to see how the flip went.

[Backhand]

I am increasingly disbelieving that you are not getting this. You're seriously saying scum can't benefit from being in a position to downplay their position on a town wagon (but still encouraging it), or from emphasizing their position on a scum wagon (but not voting and pushing it too hard)? Of course creative would in this scenario know which he's doing, but it can work either way.

[Backhand]

So if you say "well, FA isn't obvtown" we're supposed to take you on faith? That seems really easy to be making up, since there's no substance behind it.

[Backhand]

If she was obvtown you would be A. Agreeing she was obvtown and B. Noticing it.

I really don't get what you're getting at here.

I don't really think anyone can be that obviously town Day 1. What town can do, scum can pretend to do. So to say that FA hasn't done that... I don't disagree, but it seems like a very easy way to manufacture a read.

[Backhand]

Backhand i tend to make everyone who were scumreading me hate me, themselves and the game. With that tactic I have a record of 1 misslynch and 1 lynch as scum in about 100 games (which was 0-1 in like 5 months ago and the scum game is also not that old)

when he says I tend to obv town, he means I tend to emotionally take over the lead in game - and I can do that as either alignment.

I'm just not going to do go that road anymore for obvious reasons.

Ask everyone who knows me in this game about it and they will confirm that past - and they will thank me for not doing that.

Making sense? I want to close this topic about me obv-towning cause its going nowhere imo

Gotcha. I'll take your word for it for now.

[Backhand]

Spoiler:

If she was obvtown you would be A. Agreeing she was obvtown and B. Noticing it.

I really don't get what you're getting at here.

I don't really think anyone can be that obviously town Day 1.

What town can do, scum can pretend to do. So to say that FA hasn't done that... I don't disagree, but it seems like a very easy way to manufacture a read.

The bolded is just straight up wrong. A lot of players have the ability to obvtown day 1. A great example is Tammy.

But I do have a single FA tell, but also I use other similar tells to read aggressive players like FA.
And she isn't dropping those tells so I poked at her.

Eh, agree to disagree. Its not that important since whether you really think someone is town or mildly think they're town them you aren't voting for them either way. You saying you have a *specific* tell on FA is more interesting, but without knowing what it is its hard for it to be actionable.

Also my first spoiler tag! I feel like a very fancy boy.

[Backhand]

Alisae has pinged me a couple times as well, both on the strange FA move and in how quick he was to call me and creative TvT. Still think slysly has been worse. "Garbage vote" isn't much of a defense, and I still don't think he's presented a single thought that someone else didn't say first.

I'm phone posting, so I'm not going to look up the quote, but someone was asking about town reading creative? Since my first poke at him, I've been pretty comfortable with his play, he seems to be honestly trying to figure stuff out.

[Backhand]

YOU HAVE NEVER BOTHERED TO HUNT ME ABOUT THOSE ONCE. WHY AREN'T YOU ACTING ON THINGS THAT PING YOU?

The first one, I soon after got ran over by a varsoon train and never got around to following up. The second time, I did ask you about it, in 239/244/277. FA at least partially let you off the hook.

Cakez, I liked dunn's response to sly more than I liked sly's push on dunn. Since then, he hasn't done anything good, but I still feel better about him than most of the lurkers.

[Backhand]

Anybody have meta with Sly? Is he usually like this?

You've played with me before.

Yeah months ago. I've forgotten most meta aside from people I know super well.
P-edit: Backhand who are "most of the lurkers" you dislike?

Fitz/suzune/pim/maxwell. Actually maxwell's burst of activity was better than dunn's, so I'd put him ahead of dunn.

Loud is pretty hard to fake, so I'm definitely inclined to believe alisae's claim for now.

[Backhand]

The flavor matches the character, the role doesn't really fit. . . but without giving anything away, my flavor/character/role also do not make a lot of sense and xyzzy explicitly said in the rules that knowledge of the theme would not be alignment-indicative.

[Backhand]

knowledge of the theme would not be alignment-indicative.

He's right. You having knowledge of the theme isn't alignment indicative.

This doesn't actually mean anything in regards to a character matching a role, though

Well, that too

here's a few very important pregame notes!

[*]this game is designed such that knowledge of the flavor will not help you determine anyone's alignment, so if you're unfamilar with the flavor, that's okay!

[Backhand]

Fitz has been V/LA, what are you scumreading from that?
The others are fair.

Its more like "Dunnstral got a townie point for his entrance and the others don't have any because they haven't really done anything or have been very meh" than I scumread them.

FA, I agree that there is a cause for skepticism, but even scumAlisae can't know there's not another scum team/SK who wants him dead whether he's telling the truth or lying. So it would be a huge risk to fakeclaim there.

[Backhand]

FA, I agree that there is a cause for skepticism, but even scumAlisae can't know there's not another scum team/SK who wants him dead whether he's telling the truth or lying. So it would be a huge risk to fakeclaim there.

I understand the high risk for fake claiming loud but the cop might be a lie ven if the loud part is true. Why you suspect its multiball? and if alisae is scum they have a better view about this being singleball or multiball so your logic is flawed.

Multiball maybe, but I don't know how he would have any idea on SK's. It just seems like such an unnecessary gamble to take as scum, so I'm inclined to believe it for now (WIFOM, admittedly) and see if it sorts itself out.

Anyway, I would prefer our wagon get off of dunn and back on slysly, who has dipped ever since saying a mostly untrue thing about dunn. Anyone with me?

[Backhand]

It's funny that those hating my push on Dunn now find him scummy.

That's true of Alisae, kind of (and he didn't even go after the beetlejuice thing that hard) No one else overlaps, so its a weird overreaction. And I'm not insisting on there being an SK, I'm insisting on Alisae not knowing whether there is one or not. Actually, if he did know there was an SK it would *really* be a dumb claim.

[Backhand]

OK--your point about there not being a counter is of course true, and we're at the same conclusion.

[Backhand]

Oh NOW its suspicious when Creative won't vote

This is all great but its not a slysly wagon, so it is probably not correct.

[Backhand]

I'll buy it. What makes Sly so much worse for you then the rest of the lurkers, then?

Bad/weird trap on dunn, hints that he might want to vote for me, doesn't actually do it until I call him out (lampshades it being an OMGUS vote as well), doesn't try to defend himself ("garbage vote"), says that those who hated his push on dunn now find dunn scummy, which is barely true of one person, definitely not "people." Has disappeared since.

Creative, I think you could be a lot looser with your vote without the consequences you're concerned about (we're not turbo lynching dunn).

[Backhand]

Spoiler:

Life has been busy, busy, busy lately. I'd fill you all in with the details but I'd just be repeating myself and making "the easiest lynch" chasers like Backhand go "OMGUS, get the lurker scum!".

FA, I don't take notes when I'm super busy in life. This is one of those instances. If the shoe fits, wear it. I play by intuition now, content is secondary.

I'm perfectly happy with my vote on backhand, but the last VC I looked at, I was the only one left on him. I'm also perfectly happy moving my vote to where I already sensed scum early in the game where my vote is much more practical.

VOTE: Dunn

If what I've been reading is correct, I believe this is L-2.

Puts someone at L-2, calls the single vote on him "easiest lynch chaser."

Chutzpah.

[Backhand]

Ugh. Slysly, would you just explain your reads? I'm nowhere near as locked in on you as you seem to think, I don't know why you're playing the persecuted victim.

Xyzzy... What's up with the vote count?

[Backhand]

Yes, that I saw it after I made the first post, I just first votes on dunnstral had been removed for some reason.

[Backhand]

EBWOP: Words is hard.

[Backhand]

@Suzune: the only person discussing slysly's meta is slysly. He's doing this weird possum defense and I'd appreciate some other people putting some heat on him, he's set himself up to OMGUS away anything else I bring up (not that he's responded to the first things)

[Backhand]

FA, can you explain a "not traceable readlist?" He did give one a couple days ago, what about it don't you like?

[Backhand]

Nice echo read on ABR, Dunnstral.

I don´t think Dunnstral is the way to go

VOTE: havingfitz

Gotcha. Yeah these two with very little in between aren't good at all. Let's see what he has to say.

(still not happy that slysly isn't playing the game though)

[Backhand]

Can you explain more why your read shifted? You did say your read was moving, and then you voted for him, but you never said why.

[Backhand]

EBWOP: You kind of did in 612, actually. But that seems more of a reason to move him to a null spot rather than move all the way to voting him (and as you said, you consider your vote be a powerful weapon)

[Backhand]

HEAL: Varsoon

Creative, how do you actually feel about the slot?

[Backhand]

HEAL: Varsoon

Creative, how do you actually feel about the slot?

Explain your varsoon townread

I pretty much agreed with everything in 617. He's aggressively and smartly hunting (not that he's always right), he's drawing a lot of attention to himself, more than scum generally would.

Has SlySly been prodded yet? I think that has been the scummiest slot but also I don't feel like I'm helping since he just disappeared.

[Backhand]

this is xyzzy, your moderator and your fair weather friend.

votecount 1.15

3 players voting for Dunnstral for lynch (SirCakez, SlySly, gigabyteTroubadour)
3 players voting for SlySly for lynch (Backhand, Dunnstral, Albert B. Rampage)
2 players voting for havingfitz for lynch (Varsoon, Creative)
2 players voting for Creative for lynch (Frozen Angel, Alisae)
1 player voting for Varsoon for lynch (havingfitz)
1 player voting for Alisae for lynch (MaxwellPuckett)

1 player not voting for lynch (Suzune)

with 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch

7 players voting for Varsoon for Fantasy Gachapon (Dunnstral, Varsoon, MaxwellPuckett, SirCakez, Creative, Suzune, Backhand)
4 players voting for Frozen Angel for Fantasy Gachapon (gigabyteTroubadour, Albert B. Rampage, havingfitz, Frozen Angel)
1 player voting for Creative for Fantasy Gachapon (SlySly)
1 player voting for MaxwellPuckett for Fantasy Gachapon (Alisae)

0 players not voting for Fantasy Gachapon

the day will end in (expired on 2017-06-15 18:00:00)

mod notes: SlySly has been prodded.

I think that's a lynch? This +Suzune +gigabyte +creative +Alisae.

So that's interesting.

[Backhand]

Yeah, that was messed up.

FA, in 728, mean you were targeted by a loud person?

[Backhand]

I'll say I neither asked for a quicklynch in the course of a real-life afternoon. I just wanted to hold him accountable for not playing.

[Backhand]

EBWOP: "neither asked for nor expected"

[Backhand]

FA, you're saying that you learned that someone investigated you and learned your role, and alisae is saying that they are a loud role and learned your alignment? That's a pretty wild coincidence if alisae's not telling the truth, no? What exactly are you suggesting happened?

[Backhand]

FA, you're saying that you learned that someone investigated you and learned your role, and alisae is saying that they are a loud role and learned your alignment? That's a pretty wild coincidence if alisae's not telling the truth, no? What exactly are you suggesting happened?

Learn to read

I got a message that indeed I was targetted by someone who learnt my role (which mod just clarifid that is alignment + possible abilities) which makes my visitor a role cop

alisae claimed and onfirmed they are loud alignment cop.

alignment cops are town investigatives. Rolecops can go eaither way and make more sense as scum.

Ah, I think I follow now. So alisae should have known alignment and . . . let's say ability for clarity's sake, actually learned your ability but thought the ability he was claiming would have only learned alignment.

That's pretty compelling.

[Backhand]

VOTE: Creative

we already know Alisae's role

Let's explore the unknown and take out this guy instead

That's silly given that that would mean alisae would get another role check.

That said, 855 is a really good point and creative makes a lot of sense as partner. Naked vote before FA even totally revealed that they had alisae nailed is bad too.

[Backhand]

We might be claiming in a couple days but that still doesn't like a good enough reason, plus its going from practically confirmed scum to a very good read but not confirmed in the same way.

[Backhand]

Hey, congratulations!

we're already throwing a party for you you're the main guest for sure

[Backhand]

Creative, why is FA confirmed?

[Backhand]

I think its possible.

[Backhand]

FA, if you can heal someone, you can't also use whatever the FG is, no?

Wouldn't the optimum be for you to heal whoever we give the gachapon to? Or actually if I read the rules right, not reveal whether you're healing or vesting and make scum guess?

And its because you're friends that I consider a crazy gambit like you and alisae both being scum possible. Probably not, but possible.

Also creative obviously you know what I was doing but its *interesting* that you voted for alisae before the whole rolecop reveal.

[Backhand]

Well, you could give up your third too, maybe we'll keep you around another day!

[Backhand]

Flavor-wise, they are randomly determined items that the Adventure Zone characters receive as quest rewards. I don't think they would vary based on character, but I suppose its possible (it is an interesting coincidence that varsoon received a one-shot of a power he already had) The rules explicitly say you can only use one power a night, though.

[Backhand]

random items differ based on charactrs you play?

No, completely random. Although when I DM I tell my characters that things are random that aren't so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Backhand]

Seriously, everyone voting for FA for gachapon: she just claimed a different power and she can't use both (or if you the vest counts, all three). This is bad allocation of resources.

HEAL: GigabyteTroubadour

Mostly just sheeping the other heal votes but I'd happily give it to dunn, slightly less happily to abr or max.

[Backhand]

whoever w vote for heal is the person I'm healing as well

I have twice say in this - any wagoning without my permission is EEEK

Obviously--what more do you need elaborated? It doesn't make sense to give it to you, I strongly townread GT and dunn, less strongly abr and max.

[Backhand]

I think that's improbable, because why call out that you can only use the gachapon or your other abilities? Its also not really a good argument for giving it to you--either your power gets better, or someone else's does, or someone who would otherwise get nothing gets something.

Dunn and GT have reacted to this day in the same way as me, in a way that felt very genuine. I also think Dunn was pretty disengaged yesterday until all this broke and that gave him a reason to wake up. Makes more sense from a town perspective rather than scum.

[Backhand]

Incorrect but not scummy, and I think just an effort to draw some more info out of creative.

[Backhand]

HEAL: Backhand

Backhand I think is the most town after FA. If FA protects him, let's say he gets a good ability, then we come out ahead tomorrow. Scum can't kill FA. We make a motherfucking comeback in this bitch, guns blazing, sirens blaring. Start lynching some SCUM. What do you all say?

I'm down for it to be me, but I'm also happy to form a bloc with who whoever the majority of myself, GT, dunn, ABR, and Max can agree on. Worried that the scum will hide under the "pro-town" play of giving it to FA (see creative).

[Backhand]

Sorry about that. I am pretty sure you're scum, but I'm not trying to drive you away. Do you still think FA is a good choice for the gachapon, given that she cannot use both that and her ability?

[Backhand]

Hey backhand when did you start townreading me and why
Also I'm reading the thread today backwards, deal

You haven't done much but I've liked your analysis. Tbh I'd throw you off Gachapon Townread Island if FA keeps coming around on getting it off her. I'm less worried about you than creative/cakez/fitz/suzune.

BTW, @cakez--I'll be happy to take up me being scum with Alisae and creative after they're both dead. Its interesting that you're the only person who seems most concerned about identifying the third in that group. Almost like you already know for sure about the first two?

[Backhand]

Quality shade throwing attempt.
And yes I am working from the perspective of Alisae scum given that she has basically scumslipped.

I am much more unsure about Creative right now though. Could be Suzune instead.

Thank you I do pretty much agree with all this though (maybe not *much* more unsure on creative)

[Backhand]

I'm going to be pretty confbiased--but you seemed way too quick to turn on Alisae, and not confused enough by the confusion about "role vs. alignment" I thought it was very plausible that TownAlisae would have targeted FA, I don't find that argument very compelling. It all feels very much like "I am going to bus my lying partner here"

[Backhand]

Checking in, going to be gone a lot of the weekend. Don't totally love the AR self-vote but if Dunn and someone else trust him enough, I'll follow.

[Backhand]

We ready to be done with the day?

HEAL: ABR

VOTE: Alisae

[Backhand]

I think we should start today with name (not role) claims, and I'll be happy to start. I'm Taako. FA, I'd like you to be next?

And abr, anything to report?

[Backhand]

I very much do not trust her.

[Backhand]

Well, I've come this far I guess.

Now that we've read alisae's role, that fakeclaim was so bad! "that player will be informed that another player has learned their role." Like, it says it right there in plain text. It does not actually say Loud anywhere, so the idea that alisae was confused about that doesn't really hold water. Also, he was sooooooo eager to make that claim. He did at L-3, and I don't know where all of you were at, but I didn't think of him of being in *particular* danger, just a Day 1 wagon he could have easily defended/waited out. Why make that fakeclaim, at that time, unless you have some sort of clever reason for doing so? And why investigate the one person who has already mechanically doubted your claim, when you (should) know that you're going to have some explaining to do afterwards? Throw in that they're best buds, and I smell theater.

The reason for the nameclaim in general is independent of that and should be obvious--for some unknown reason alisae *also* lied about his name. The best-case scenario is that they weren't given fake nameclaims and he actually said the name of one of his partners. Worst-case, I don't see how we lose much since deducing roles/alignment from character name doesn't seem very predictable.

[Backhand]

Actually just noticed that FA did already nameclaim Klarg (just said the name wrong so it went over my head). Creative, I'd just like you to give us a name, I'm not asking for anything more. And I *would* like you to now be next please.

Creative, I agree the doc claim is evidence against the scheme but its weak, FA could be mafia doc, or just planning on WIFOMing out of a counterclaim (she already said she thought this was role madness)

[Backhand]

Bulletproof helps with that.

And bluntly, you've already given away a fair amount, I don't see what name would make the conditions obvious or why you're so confident that it would be good for mafia if you don't even know what your ability does.

[Backhand]

Why is it sketchy? It should be obvious that alisae lied about his name for *some* reason.

(and yes, if someone claimed giving the vest to them that would be a point in her favor)

[Backhand]

Yeah, i understand your point, it's possible, i just don´t think it's likely.

Hmm, let's say i'm interested on other people claiming flavors, because that helps me understanding my role, but at the same time, i think it's possible mafia may have a counterpart to my role, and they also are going to benefit to know others flavors.

Should i claim my flavor anyway?

I say yes, although again, I'm not sure why you give any more flavor than a name.

[Backhand]

I'm Craig.

Confirm that spelling?

[Backhand]

Dunn, are you reading the thread backwards or something?

[Backhand]

Why is it sketchy? It should be obvious that alisae lied about his name for *some* reason.

Because he had a fakeclaim and didn't think twice about using a fake name; even though he didn't need to

On the other hand, everyone claiming their name doesn't mean anything. Especially since Alisae's role name factored in 0% to whether their claim was believable (I don't even know what he claimed OR flipped)

If that's true, then there's no harm in doing it. I'm also wondering why mafia would need fake names (if that's what happened), given that Magnus is one of the good guys and its clear that alignment and character are loosely related at best.

[Backhand]

If that's true, then there's no harm in doing it.

Actually, it means varsoon's neighbor is claiming

Sure, but their alignment wasn't even confirmed to varsoon, or if they have any other abilities. Don't think they become a target based just on that.

[Backhand]

I didnt want to out my powers, i thought was clear at this point that she is town, but a lot of people are having doubt on both her and miself. I'm Yeemick, and apparntly Klarg is my Boss, i thought there was some reason for her to mispell her flavor when she claimed or that might be another flavor with a very similar name, but i dont think that is the case

Does that confirm the specific ability at least? Because if you can confirm that at least, that'd be enough for me. With apparently no other night kills, I also doubt a Mafia doc.

[Backhand]

I think we should massclaim.

Yeah, if we have a doc, a backup doc, someone who is giving out items, a neighbor, whoever gets the gachapon, and... Whatever suzune is hinting at, we don't exactly have to worry about losing all our power.

[Backhand]

Nice day out today

Why is it sketchy? It should be obvious that alisae lied about his name for *some* reason.

(and yes, if someone claimed giving the vest to them that would be a point in her favor)

Alisae obviously had no idea what she was doing, she might have just claimed a random name from a fakeclaim pool. Or there could be flavor reasons she hid her name, IDK I don't know the flavor.
Regardless revealing all of our flavor names does nothing to help.

Alisae didn't *seem* like someone who didn't know what they were doing (plus she went from the so-obvious cop role I joked about to something that barely held water), but whatever, we've already moved on to discussing massclaim. Guess we'll find out after the game what he was thinking.

@Suzune: I'm not sure. Creative is trending up my list, Dunn is trending down.

Right now, it feels like:

Town:
ABR
GT
FA
Creative
Dunn
Cakez
Suzune
Fitz

Mostly want Fitz to catch up, I'm having trouble picking between my top... six or so scumreads.

[Backhand]

Because I think he's town? He (and gt) haven't done a thing that makes me think he might be scum, would be most accurate.

[Backhand]

Pretty bad, if she knew what she was doing, how did she flub her claim so badly?

. . . yeah that's why I'm suspicious of it. If you're fine stopping your thinking at "lol alisae sucked I guess" that's up to you.

ABR was the person who asked me to claim yesterday

scum had no day chat.

what do you think about this?

I also need to mention why delaying alisae death that was suggested by dunn is so scummy knowing no day chat

That's. . . an interesting point, I hadn't thought of that. I already suspect dunn more anyway, but abr would have had to be pretending to think that scum didn't already know your role, where dunn never really gave a good reason. I'm also starting to rethink the sudden jump on the SlySly wagon as an alternative to dunn.

[Backhand]

FA, you know Alisae pretty well--what do you think he was thinking?

[Backhand]

1113 @Backhand...what is the purpose of claiming our names? They aren't alignment indicative in any way iirc so what good does claiming them do? Also...very surprised you "very much do not trust" FA.

They aren't alignment-indicative in a "the bad guys from the show are scum and the good guys are town" sense. But alisae lied about his name in a way that made his claim

less

believable. He did that for some reason, and I think knowing everyone's name might shed some light. And if it doesn't, it costs us very little.

1135 this Dunnstral post is interesting. How is the coincidence of Backhand using the comment "Zone of Truth" possible given that it's in the role description of Alisae? That seems very odd. Is "Zone of Truth" a comment that would be expected to be in play given the theme of this game?

It really really is.

https://www.google.com/search?q=adventu ... e+of+truth

[Backhand]

One point about Creative: In the fiction, Yeemick is Klarg's employee who hires the adventurers to betray and kill Klarg. I don't know how much should be read into that...but its a reason to question the alignment of the backup claim.

[Backhand]

There's not a Glark, or a Clark. There is a Craig. . . although its a really deep cut, not on my list of "if I had to make up a claim this is what I would find on the wiki" which is why I wanted to be sure about what you were saying abr.

[Backhand]

FA...no need for ad homs. I was very clear in my post 1273...yet you instead reply with the obvious (that mafia would want Alisae's result) while ignoring the two points I mention. That there could have been some sort of signal, and more importantly, signal or not...you claimed your role.

So when town!you says it is interesting that "mafia didn't have alisae result the day we lynched him" you are both factually incorrect on mafia's knowledge of your role and unclear on what is "interesting."

So what is interesting? What associatives or other clues does the inaccurate assertion wrt "mafia not knowing Alisae's result" tell you? Above and beyond looking for associatives based soley on Alisae's alignment.

Can you "parse" that?


@Cakez...I don't;t think there is an encryptor. For one thing it's pretty uncommon and second...a quick look in the archives shows (in the sample of one that I looked at) an encryptor's partners (ex. Alisae) would have been told of their existence and been given a PT.

Its potentially a point against dunn, who tried to delay alisae's lynch.

[Backhand]

Yeah--I guess we're waiting for either the massclaim to pick up or FA to come in with her big read?

[Backhand]

Twist!

[Backhand]

Interesting interesting, everyone took such interest and disappeared.

Some of us like to do things on Friday nights

Anyway, my reactions to Alisae were genuine, I can't really speak to why he chose to defend me.

Cakez tunneling so hard on me is making me feel better about him, I think?

Suzune, did we get a name from you? I might have missed, sorry if so.

[Backhand]

Interesting interesting, everyone took such interest and disappeared.

Some of us like to do things on Friday nights

Anyway, my reactions to Alisae were genuine, I can't really speak to why he chose to defend me.

Cakez tunneling so hard on me is making me feel better about him, I think?

Suzune, did we get a name from you? I might have missed, sorry if so.

what do you think about alisae early interactions and why you never engaged with him about his opinions on you?

I did call him out in 342, but I thought slysly was summer at the time and Alisae claimed pretty shortly after. Or do you mean that in a different way?

[Backhand]

*slysly was scummier, autocorrect wins again

[Backhand]

Sorry everyone, very busy weekend.

Top 3 scumreads: 1. Creative--kind of feel like I distracted myself by worrying about FA. He made that extremely out-of-character vote on SlySly (and he doesn't know that alisae is going to hammer behind him since no daytalk) And I can see why people are weird about alisae's interactions with me, but as much of that was calling me and creative TvT way too soon. Knowing I'm town and not a buddy alisae was protecting, that's a reason to suspect Creative.
And again, thematically, Yeamick was an employee who tried to hire adventurers to kill Klarg. A scum-aligned backup makes a lot of sense.
2. Fitz. I know he has made votes, but he has not been at all influential toward the game state. Most likely candidate for lurkerscum.
3. FA. This is not actually that strong compared to anyone else, but just a reminder that she's not actually confirmed and if you do kill me don't forget that.

On suzune, I don't see how it makes sense to rely on her ability. If she's town, its essentially another day-night cycle without any town power role action, we kill someone and lose her. If we think she's scum and having her activate her ability is an alternative to lynching her, then I get it, but I don't think that's the cause.

VOTE: Creative

[Backhand]

Oh, you think your ability will save her? I guess I usually think of doctor saves as only working on night kills.

[Backhand]

no I mean if she survives till 3p lylo with my protection we can kill everyone and win

Ok gotcha, yes that makes more sense. Using it before then does not make sense unless we decide suzune is scum, I didn't catch that there were two different plans being discussed.

We're basically at deadline. I think the choice is between me and creative. I'm vanilla (my "ability" is a coupon to Olive Garden)--so I don't want to be lynched but we could do worse.

HEAL: Suzune

[Backhand]

Its kind of a fake third--its really a tie between you and dunn and cakez, and abr and suzune aren't even much behind that. GT is the only person who I'd be very surprised by a scum flip.

But everyone else (besides abr) seems to just be assuming you're town because of the alisae thing and I'm still paranoid about that. So I wanted to call it out one more time.

[Backhand]

Both pim and GT immediately suspected/attacked alisae. Of course could be bussing, but gutread to me says no. GT also reacted in what I thought was a very genuine way to the fakeclaim. Not too soon like a pre-planned thing with creative, but what feels to me like the right amount of time to figure it out. Oh and I think the voting drawback is more likely to be given to town.

Everyone else (besides creative and fitz, see 1465 on them):

Abr:

Would be a townread, but is a very plausible partner with creative. Has poked him a couple times, called out things for his that were scummy, but has never actually pushed for his lynch. Probably my second-highest townread, but is a veteran and seems competent enough to be playing a good scum game.

(and he voted for Creative while I was writing my post, of course. I dunno)

Dunnstral:

I townread him Day 1, part of the reason I pushed SlySly, but I can't discount that he was the second-biggest wagon at the time SlySly got quicklynched. I don't like his Day 2 trying to delay the alisae lynch. That said, unlike he's not a very plausible partner with creative, he's been on him most of the game.

Frozen Angel:

Paranoia about how bad alisae's claim was. Other than that, probably the doctor. When we really do finish claiming, someone saying who gave you that bulletproof would make me feel better about that part of it too, its a little too good to be true.

SirCakez:

Its always really hard to fairly evaluate the person who has been scumreading you more or less the whole game. I really don't like that he supposedly though an alisae/creative/myself team was likely (really, you think two team members immediately went out each other and the third jumped in to call both of them town?), yet has been on me and never creative. That said, I don't think he's actually that scummy if I try to discount the OMGUS factor.

Suzune:

Was scumreading her more before today (she was another late jumper on SlySly) but I don't see her claim as being likely for scum and her thoughtfulness about her ability feels very town.

[Backhand]

@fitz suzane claimed the suicide will happen at the end of day and they can lynch another play at the same time

@backhand tell me again - you're not newbie yes?

Nah, just rusty. Eight year gap between forum games. Have been playing semi-regularly in person, but that's very different.

[Backhand]

Spoiler:

Both pim and GT immediately suspected/attacked alisae. Of course could be bussing, but gutread to me says no. GT also reacted in what I thought was a very genuine way to the fakeclaim. Not too soon like a pre-planned thing with creative, but what feels to me like the right amount of time to figure it out. Oh and I think the voting drawback is more likely to be given to town.

I was the first one who pushed alisae in day 1 and made her claim - where did they were the first who did that?

pedit : then explain why if my BP claim is true that makes me more town and why if it was a lie to wifom scum to save myself (which I'm entirly capabole of doing that ) - I'm not so much? cause it seems you're more interested in solving the bp part instead of sorting me

for what is related to me and my role

imo

Why are players asking for opinions on Cakez two posts :S?

I don't know why alisae asked but post 42 kindda - really slightly - pinged me and It felt like it pinged alisae as well but he was being unclear about how he is thinking about it so it felt weird.

alisae your townread on backhand is - still - triggering me (now you called backhand creative TvT) can you elaborate what in that interaction felt like TvT?

From you I could see it. But Alisae asking it feels off :S

i'm going to double check with the mod rn and if they clarify that this doesnt happen in lylo then i dont see any harm in claiming this anyway so

ok good news i dont need to be policy lynched

the NU still applies in lylo but i wont be held to activity requirements so i dont accidentally lurk out of the game

lmao

alisae i was liking until i looked into max's push on them and kind of got their points? i'm taking a second look at him atm, though i would like to know from max if his claim impacts his read at all. alignment cop is definitely easy for scum to fakeclaim but i'm not sure why he'd have a loud modifier in that case.

Got prodded, whoops. My memory on when I'd last posted was off.
Loud modifier is real, no doubt about it. Just because one half of the claim is real doesn't mean it all is.
The claim doesn't change my read, no. Last game I was a gunsmith and guiltied scum first try. Said scum claimed they were the corresponding gunsmith (even/odd) and I believed it.

hm

ok

i was going to ask alisae about his transition wrt backhand but i dont know if he already summed up his thoughts

if he didnt or gives a shitty answer @alisae i want to know more about this too

Didn't say they were first, but pim's third post and giga's fifth post both question alisae. They were on him early (until he claimed and gt reasonably backed off) As to the bp thing, its an easy thing to lie about to cover why you as a claimed pr aren't dying. So if that were confirmed, you could still be lying but it would mean you aren't making up the whole thing. I'm not sure what you mean by related to you and your role.

ABR, I agree that we shouldn't *rely* on suzune, like we should still play as if things were normal, it just may be an out at lylo we otherwise wouldn't have. But I don't think she's scum and we know she doesn't have a useful ability that conflicts with the gachapon.

[Backhand]

HEAL: GigabyteTroubadour

Thought you softed before and didn't want the heal, but if you want it I want you to have it.

[Backhand]

Why?

[Backhand]

But its not really--if she dies and is town then its exactly the same as another lynch-NK cycle. Except we have to talk about two lynches at once, and don't get any additional town PR actions (or the gachapon)

[Backhand]

I need a better reason than "because FA says so." Why is two kills and two lynches in one day better than two days?

[Backhand]

I claimed vanilla yesterday--what was your result?

VOTE: Suzune

I'm still not sure its a good idea for suzune to use it though--if we swing and miss two times today its probably game over.

[Backhand]

UNVOTE: Suzune

[Backhand]

I got no result

wanted to see if you would claim ascetic or something

Interesting--no, nothing in my role would have prevented you from getting a result.

[Backhand]

Yeah its not *definitive* because we won't be able to say for sure if he targeted someone who never talked about it and has since died, or was blocked. But it would be some evidence to back up your claim, GT (not that I'm saying I doubt it). I did not get neighborized.

[Backhand]

The argument would be that he was trying to buy another rolecop investigation for alisae. . . but I agree, I think fitz is more likely than dunn.

[Backhand]

what sort of gambit were you planning on doing?

Didn't plan anything

Fitz was never mentioned

Were you able to communicate N1?

[Backhand]

I guess why would they block varsoon when they were going to kill him. . . but if they had a blocker, why not kill GT last night? Or abr the night before when he had the watch?

Something about that doesn't smell right.

[Backhand]

Fitz, you haven't claimed your role yet, correct? I've been doing some thinking and changing your mind on you, confirming what you did N1 (and other nights, but N1 in particular) would help.

[Backhand]

Cakez was pretty opposed to claiming but I think a lot of that was because I was the most vocal person pushing for it.

[Backhand]

I'm Taako, FYI.

[Backhand]

And night 3 I was a role blocker and I blocked Backhand.

A *traditional* roleblocker? Or something that would cause GT's result to come up blank?

[Backhand]

So Scum is backhand and fitz?

probably yeah

Easy game, easy money!

Uh, good luck with that.

[Backhand]

I'm starting to lean Titus. Their claims will go a long way toward convincing me on them though.

Vedith, just to confirm, cakez only received the ability N3? Did not have anything to use N1 or N2?

[Backhand]

"Their claims" meaning titus and fitz's.

[Backhand]

like it just stops if you die?

it means he's scum basically but we'll let him live

What do you mean?

[Backhand]

Yeah

What do you mean by operate the fantasy gachapon?

Just noticed I'm at L-1. WTF!? Can town please unvote me?

My role pm says I operate the FG. It's a coin operated machine and I've got a pocket full of coins. I haven't had to take any action to make it spit out the random items. It doesn't say what happens if I'm lynched.

Hmmmmmmmm

GT, did you receive anything extra besides the cop ability last night?

Oh, and HEAL: GigabyteTroubadour

[Backhand]

FA did claim that bulletproof vest, she might have just been lying but you did have your Gachapon vote on her N1 (and N2, but can't ask her if she got anything else now). If GT got something additional, that would be evidence supporting that theory.

Summing up on the claims:

VTs: Backhand, Fitz, Titus, GT (with vote restriction)
Vengeful: Suzune
Neighbor: Dunnstral
One-Shot Jailkeeper: Vedith

What we know: GT is basically cleared unless Vedith is their partner, since they wouldn't have known to claim that they didn't receive a result. Vedith is *not* cleared, all they had to do was block GT and then claim to have targeted whatever suspicious person GT said they checked. Also unless I'm partners with vedith I didn't submit the kill, which isn't definitive but is points in my favor I hope.

Suzune seemed willing to die over their claim and its a crazy role to give to scum, they're probably town.

I was *hoping* fitz would claim to be the person handing out vests or something along those lines, that would have more or less confirmed him in my books. . . but that didn't happen. Fitz might still be responsible, or again FA might have been lying, but its no longer a particularly town role, in fact it makes a lot of sense as a scum role. If he figures it out, he has to pick between giving bonuses to partners and potentially making himself look bad, or keep doling out goodies to town.

I'm leaning toward fitz and titus, but I'm still fairly suspicious of dunn. Vedith is less likely, I think.

[Backhand]

actually dunn has a good point in that abr's watcher target was terrible

His targets are based on ego, so I'm not even going to ask who he targeted. The assertion that ABR has terrible targets is usually correct.

what ego is there to be gained in watching me when he did?

I don't think this is great evidence anyway--the "obvious" choice would have been FA but she wasn't the nightkill that night.

[Backhand]

right but max was still infinitely more likely than me as a nightkill there

Interesting--I remember thinking otherwise at the time but maybe I'm overemphasizing my personal townread on you, I did not have such confidence in max.

wouldnt a doctor and a nurse together be enough for priority targets for a loud rolecop to look for? or both neighbors being town?

And 1-shot-JK as well, yeah we have plenty of roles for a rolecop.

[Backhand]

Hold on, I has a think. GT, who do you most trust left in the game? We've had a neighbor, a cop, a watch. . . a doc might be coming here. I'd rather spread out our power then let scum kill our basically confirmed townsperson who also has an ability tonight.

[Backhand]

Suzune > Vedith > Dunn > Backhand > Titus > Fitz

HEAL: Suzune

Everyone else, please get on board unless you've got a big GT-Vedith case to make.

[Backhand]

no we're not healing suzune

if you think it's a doctor you heal me or vedith

HEAL: gigabyte

we get auto win if we take suzune to a three-way lylo

Oh right. I'd rather it be in vedith's hands in that case to spread out potential targets.

HEAL: Vedith

[Backhand]

Seems like we're spinning our wheels at this point.

HEAL: Dunnstral

Gonna hammer titus in a few hours unless someone has something really important to say.

[Backhand]

Alright then.

VOTE: Titus

[Backhand]

LOL thanks for the timely feedback.

[Backhand]

Ugh 4 scum? That stinks.

[Backhand]

Uh. . . OK. I guess I'll actually wait.

[Backhand]

Did you have some sort of vote restriction? I just noticed that Cakez was never on a final lynch.

[Backhand]

not entirely sure but we might get away with having suzune suicide bomb backhand and lynching fitz

this is autowin if you're town vedith

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa. Lynch me if you will, but to call for the suicide bomb today instead of tomorrow is fucking nuts. Its auto-*lose* if either of you or vedith is scum.

P-EDIT: Looks like giga already got there anyway.

[Backhand]

Could we not vote suzune tomorrow and have them kill Fritz?
If suzune is scum, still lynched, if not, Fritz is boom!

That's not exactly how she said her role works, no. Also fitz didn't claim gachapon enabler, its just a reasonable extrapolation that there might be something more to his role than he knows.

[Backhand]

Well, Cakez said that he crumbed about jailing Creative from his post about looking into him?
But he jailed (I think he got confused on the power?) Backhand as he's the number 1 suspect. Because Creative flipped town, he suspects that Fritz is scum.
He also thought the other was ABR (titus), you or FA, but these weren't strong reads.

Yeah, its the same read cakez settled on like Page 5 and never reconsidered. I do think its probably Fitz though, so feel free to take care of him at Lylo if you get me first.

VOTE: havingfitz

HEAL: gigabytetroubadour

[Backhand]

need suzune to tell me if she thinks vedith is town enough to bomb fitz/backhand

If Suzune bombs me or backhand and gets it wrong (ex. bombs me)...that would leave town at 3p LYLO..yes?

No, someone gets lynched, we are at four, Suzune and their target die we are at two, and at that point its over. I just don't see the upside in using the bomb.

[Backhand]

my vote's on backhand

fitz, please follow

vedith can hammer once suzune checks in

Good luck. Don't be wrong about fitz, I guess.

[Backhand]

VOTE: Vecna

Did this already with Suzune, but just in case.

[Backhand]

UNVOTE: Vecna

[Backhand]

Yeah...it doesnt work that way. You need to vote me, THEN I need to activate my ability, and only afterwards you can unvote again. I can only activate my ability if you are voting me at the time of activation.

At any rate, unless youre just faking not understanding that, im quite sure that the fact youre even willing to put yourself up for getting killed means youre town and we might as well just lynch Fitz.

Ah--no, that was not completely clearly explained and/or I missed it.

[Backhand]

Fine--just to be clear, I still think this is a bad idea.

VOTE: Vecna

But let me know when you may or may not have activated your ability.

[Backhand]

The downside is if you or Vedith is scum, we lose. Admittedly that's probably still true whether or not vecna uses the ability because you're both so widely townread, but at least there's a chance of a save at lylo. We also lose out on a potentially game-changing gachapon.

[Backhand]

do you think vedith and me are scum?

like

both of us are fairly flavor confirmed...?

and flavor confirmed = town as evidenced by dunnie's flip

Probably not--but from my perspective, if I'm wrong and fitz is lynched and is town and vecna uses their ability on me then we lose. I don't see what dunn's flip has to do with flavor confirmed equaling town?

[Backhand]

Yeah. . . but everyone has now claimed flavor that makes sense, y'know? I have no idea why both scum have fakeclaimed names when they had more plausible actual flavor, but its not like they flipped as Harry Potter.

This is all a little silly, neither of us actually have control of what vecna is going to do.

[Backhand]

I believe that you're Magnus, but it doesn't follow that "some scum lied about their flavor, so all scum must be lying about their flavor" There's not another character besides Taako with a connection to Olive Garden either, it just doesn't have a game mechanic effect.

[Backhand]

Yeah, I can't help that I got one of the two vanilla PMs. It is probably just fitz, but if he flips town I'm not going to magically become the last scum, even if I can't convince anyone else of that.

[Backhand]

For sure interesting how the fakeclaims backfired, both role and name. Good game everyone!

[Backhand]

On the one hand, the gachapon's were only useless because of bad luck (cakez inadvertently blocking giga), and the roleblock going to dunn was a forced kill or else it would have been effectively an investigation. I think they were powerful for the town.

On the other, we had no investigative power besides the gachapon. We just bet on giga and were right, but if a scum had managed to get in that position instead (if abr doesn't get banned, maybe) it could have broken very differently.

[Backhand]

It did make it worse but in a way I don't think you could have anticipated--part of my read was that Titus so clearly didn't *like* abr, I didn't think he would have dumped on him so much if he were replacing into town.