Mini 1932: Dedede Fusion Collab (FIN)

[morph the cat]

hi guys!

[morph the cat]

I mean after all, it's all love and games

also hi i think that's ffery

It is! Neuterhalf would probably put an "~f" after it.

[morph the cat]

My shitposting hands ache terribly.

[morph the cat]

My shitposting hands ache terribly.

from overuse or that kind of pining ache that has you desiring to create more?

Both? Neither? Blame Alisae it was his game that did it.

[morph the cat]

VOTE: morph

caaaaaabdeeeeeeeeee
ffeeryyyyyrfyy

Oh sorry you thought you get both of us?

Did your drawn ticket come up even or odd?

[morph the cat]

Some day the wathogs will come. Until then, I will be sad.

[morph the cat]

VOTE: morph

caaaaaabdeeeeeeeeee
ffeeryyyyyrfyy

Fiiiiiiinally! Hi!

[morph the cat]

I'm here for you!

Kinda.

Mostly I'm at a dive bar.

[morph the cat]

If you plan to try and slay us then you should keep that av.

[morph the cat]

Nacho is doing exactly what i expect right now regardless of alignment.

[morph the cat]

I'm here for you!

Kinda.

Mostly I'm at a dive bar.

And either it's a hell of a dive bar and making you post like someone without presence has inhabited your body, or you're scum and breaking my heart quite early. But it's fine, I'll do other things and wait for you to get home and get into the groove but I do want you to know that my initial impression isn't a great one.

I'll get home pretty late. I know all the cool kids phonepost these days. It limits my flights of fancy.

[morph the cat]

Nacho is doing exactly what i expect right now regardless of alignment.

Do you feel you had an underwhelming entrance? Do you think my concern on you is completely unfounded?

"Our content so far should freak nacho out"

Our chat two hours ago.

Which I replied to with "good because he chainsawed my face let him suffer".

[morph the cat]

I'm here for you!

Kinda.

Mostly I'm at a dive bar.

In particular, the tone I expected if you were town here was maybe confusion, maybe a "ha ha nacho very funny" type of response, but the reaction I got was half placating, half explaining why you already weren't playing to my expectations.

I doubt you will get anything that sets you st ease tonight.

I told neuter half before i drove to sf that I expected to worry you if you showed up tonight.

We both like starting this way. The last game wasnt much of a challenge for you.

[morph the cat]

Nah.

[morph the cat]

Nacho is doing exactly what i expect right now regardless of alignment.

Do you feel you had an underwhelming entrance? Do you think my concern on you is completely unfounded?

I didn't find any thing that grabbed my attention, really. I expect that will change when i read with full attention and large screen.

And yeah, i expected my content *snort* so far too worry the fuck out of you if you're town.

Do you think I'd be unaware? Do you think i wouldn't be terrified about such an entrance if i were scum?

[morph the cat]

The halo av is quite disturbing,.

[morph the cat]

I already love that hydra.

[morph the cat]

Google ghoulies band denver. This is great!

[morph the cat]

We figured this current outcome would happen regardless. I personally pushed to troll you before we even got our role PM, unless we both drew scum it was gonna be trolly mctrollface.

The fact that it's working as intended is music to my ears.

We have approximately a negative five percent chance of this ending up with you scum reading us in the end.

[morph the cat]

Yes, I'm that confident.


The game roster and EP's design philosophy mean I get to be.

[morph the cat]

Her play style and my play style within morph don't exist. It's become quite a happy fusion of both.

We have our reasons to approach the game from a troll nacho perspective.

[morph the cat]

Ffery
If you rolled scum, then who is going to keep me from flying off the rails?

Vote: morph the cat

It sure as hell ain't gonna be me.

Okay, I think the first two are syr posts.
And this just
doesn't feel natural to me.

--

I scumread Oil Tycoons.

I suggest you leave reading me to Tammy; this is one of those games where I'm town right off the bat and I doubt she'll have trouble seeing it.

I think this is a nacho post.
This is just feels
very off to me tonally
like too goody good good and playful if you get what I'm saying?
and like
I just don't feel like it's from a town nacho.

I mean I get town!nacho can get like that
but I don't buy it being natural right now.
I just
don't.

Fwiw 51 is an in joke reference to a meme in discord. I think.

[morph the cat]

What makes you think I'm defending her?

[morph the cat]

What makes you think I'm defending her?

Specifically as opposed to doing this to get reads on people that aren't you.

[morph the cat]

97 really didn't read as directed to her as opposed to at me about her. Brb grabbing drunk ffery posting then.

[morph the cat]

We are like the advance wars COs in AWDS. Gotta wait for maxed star power to get synced posting.

[morph the cat]

Fwiw this approach is giving results because I already have at least three initial reads I'm happy with. And I didn't have to rely on Ffery for them.

[morph the cat]

Goddsmit I'm having fun. Irl. Do i need to be here?

[morph the cat]

As for the Ceph-Tammy read, Ceph's posts are reasonable but they don't push him towards town. Tammy can very easily fake "I am town, our avatar is cute, I won't be around much".

I think not being opportunistic pushes him a little toward town. I want advance wars ceph, though.

[morph the cat]

I think he'd be posturing sort of like he did in xenosaga about mastina. Maybe this isn't really that different but it feels different?

[morph the cat]

Cabd is telling me that their hydra decided to pull a Slayer's gambit and intentionally provide a scummy opening because ~reasons~. I noted that was a waste of time because it wouldn't be useful in helping to read me or in helping me to read their slot.

Is not a slayers gambit. I'll discuss it when I'm not on phone.

[morph the cat]

HAHAHA FFERY YO WIN ONE.

She made 135 not me.

[morph the cat]

HAHAHA FFERY YO WIN ONE.

She made 135 not me.

That doesn't really change my overall point at all.

It probably doesn't. But I don't think I care.

[morph the cat]

Fwiw this approach is giving results because I already have at least three initial reads I'm happy with. And I didn't have to rely on Ffery for them.

This is a thing after all.

[morph the cat]

Alisae, dreal, imp all putting data down early. Worth every fake penny.

[morph the cat]

I agree with all three reads, but feel much more strongly about Alisae and implosion. Both of those have much more depth in their sort of me than drealmer does, although I do like his questioning tone in general.

His questions reminded me of the kinds of questions I had about your play a few years ago. They're not deep, but they have to be asked in order to peel back a layer. The next game, you work on another layer, hopefully.

[morph the cat]

As for the Ceph-Tammy read, Ceph's posts are reasonable but they don't push him towards town. Tammy can very easily fake "I am town, our avatar is cute, I won't be around much".

I think not being opportunistic pushes him a little toward town. I want advance wars ceph, though.

I'm not sure why you'd expect him to be opportunistic as scum. Do you think scum-Cephrir would be pushing to get you mislynched right now?

Not pushing hard, no. Sizing up the possibilities. And that's not what his comments felt like. It feels different when someone is sizing up their thoughts about my alignment from when they're sizing up my potential as a mislynch.

[morph the cat]

I'm probably very stupidly stuck on the "last game wasn't enough of a challenge for you" bit. It's not like I did any significant work last game at all (got hard carried by Tammy, which is probably why town won), and the implication that she's doing this to make the game harder is... weird? I find their explanations for their opening to be weird as well - they've implied that they're doing this intentionally (we both like opening this way) and accidentally (I'm "mostly" here for you, at a dive bar). I'm currently pushing myself to table it, but it's something I'd like you/Tammy specifically to keep an eye on because I don't think this looks like town-morph so far at all.

That was a joke, though it's rooted in my dissatisfaction with being chained to my meta even though I don't feel like it's even possible to just pick up where I left off a year ago.

I know my opening was weird. I was running around getting ready to go out and see some bands, and the people who were posting so far aren't familiar to me yet.

And I knew that would bother people, and particularly bother you, but I wasn't going to cancel my plans just because this game started when it did. This wasn't a troll, but I felt like the results were highly predictable.

In an alternate reality I would be here glued to the keyboard all night, and I feel like that's the reality you expected. It used to be a meta tell that I'd hide and let Cabd take the lead when we drew scum, and I remember in GiF's pick and ban micro you decided we were scum because Cabd posted first or something, and you thought I sounded like I was being too careful and taking too long to reply to you.

I don't want to have to worry about that kind of shit. All our games have evolved, and you can bet that if we had drawn scum I wouldn't be hiding, though I imagine I'd be posting with great care.

And that's the thing. The reason I don't have to care about a crappy first few posts is because I'm town and I'm happy about it. And I feel like that's what you've missed tonight, though maybe it doesn't come through that well when I'm phoneposting and having to hit submit 5 or 6 times to get a word in. I'm happy, I'm going to enjoy this game, and I'm confident that my alignment will be obvious. I've had 2 good games since coming back from hiatus and this is going to be another one.

[morph the cat]

I think he'd be posturing sort of like he did in xenosaga about mastina. Maybe this isn't really that different but it feels different?

Ffery is a player of Tammy's tier that isn't getting mislynched except in the most incompetent of playerlists or because of some ridiculous shenanigans. Mastina is a player of my tier - sometimes she's an impossible mislynch, sometimes she's a very possible and attainable mislynch. I very much doubt that Cephrir as scum would approach Ffery in the same way he would approach mastina in this situation.

That wasn't a Cabd post.

Ceph-scum did approach me that way in a game, once. I had a bad start in the game and was having an awful time recovering and finding my feet. I think with you of all players freaking out about me, I would look like an interesting, though however unlikely opportunity.

And once again, I don't think that's what's happening with Ceph right now.

[morph the cat]

i hope nacho and ffery arent scum together
totally not beyond them putting up all this

It would be without precedent, actually. I can't think of a game where nacho and I engaged in scum theater.

I'm done with this for now.

Why are you voting Kraska?

[morph the cat]

Is this a posting requirement? It looks like a fun one!

[morph the cat]

My expectation with your openings is not that you are sitting at your computer constantly refreshing, but that your early opening has signs of searching. They weren't there yet. My assumption was not that you were hiding, but you were lacking something that you usually had and so I pressed it.

Too many players I don't know, and not enough time to do anything with the early data before I left for the night.

I'm here for you!

Kinda.

Mostly I'm at a dive bar.

This post came next. While it wasn't that particularly pinged my scumdar, it wasn't

really

the response I was looking for (I expected a bit of pushback for whatever reason), so I kept digging.

It was a reference to our talk about the game while the hydra sign-up circus was in progress, because I thought you were framing your concerns about me in that light - who's going to keep you from the usual oil tycoons chucklefuckery if I'm scum?

I don't see any reason to push back about justifiable squinty-eyes.

Nacho is doing exactly what i expect right now regardless of alignment.

This post is the post that pushed it from a "not really worried" scumread to something more significant - dismissing my opening as a something NAI didn't really seem natural and isn't something that I really think is accurate. Without this post, I very likely would have left your slot alone after #62, which was the reaction I expected initially. #70 bothered me a bit when it seemed like your opinion changed to "this is more likely to be an opinion Nacho has as town" when it wasn't that way before, but things snowballed for a bit when Cabd came in thread and implied that you were doing everything as a Slayer's gambit, which made me see the "last game wasn't enough of a challenge for you" comment in a new light. Your overall response was fair enough.

That post was in response to alisae saying he scumread you for our interaction. I disagree with the read. I do think you'd take advantage of my weak entrance if you were scum, but as this interaction has continued, I feel like it's gotten further and further away from what would be optimal for scum-you, unless you thought I *can't* recover or you thought you could keep me perpetually off-balance because of it.

And neither of those things are reasonable for scum-you to think.

[morph the cat]

Yay warthogs are here.


Did you enjoy our show?

[morph the cat]

Yay warthogs are here.


Did you enjoy our show?

im not sure yet

i dont have any solid reads if thats what youre asking.

You failed me already then.

[morph the cat]

at the risk of adding to the oversaturated discussion about past games, i think i did that more because it seemed like the townie looking thing to do than out of any expectation of being able to mislynch you ever in a million years. i naturally see you as someone i need to get on my side rather than someone i need to lynch.

I'm serious about hoping Advance Wars Ceph will show up.

[morph the cat]

It's not the fashion sense I'm pining for.

[morph the cat]

it's like when people used to point out that i was being overconfident. that's such a mistake unless you're going to hold onto it if i change. at least make things a little difficult for me.

That was me. and nacho. In ny165. :/

[morph the cat]

Cabd is telling me that their hydra decided to pull a Slayer's gambit and intentionally provide a scummy opening because ~reasons~. I noted that was a waste of time because it wouldn't be useful in helping to read me or in helping me to read their slot.

Is not a slayers gambit.

I'll discuss it when I'm not on phone.

[morph the cat]

My play happened.

We used the ensuing chaos to develop some reads. Mostly Cabd developing reads in the moment. I was just barely keeping up with the conversation at the time. I have no idea how people play effectively via phone.

The "show" was an unscheduled whatever-it-was.

[morph the cat]

He did say he wanted to troll you when Syr inned as Oil Tycoons, but we never discussed how. I was unlikely to take the point on something like that because me gambiting doesn't particularly work. Since it happened, though, of course he used the opportunity both to troll and to hyperdrive the game out of RVS.

Speaking of which I thought it was a little odd that Valhalla called it 7 pages of RVS earlier today. That might develop into my first scumread.

[morph the cat]

Syr, are you in the "shitpost while talking reads" mood or more in a "talk sense with ffery and keep calm" mood?

[morph the cat]

Hi Syr.

I don't remember Nacho mentioning Valhalla earlier.

[morph the cat]

What don't you like about them?

[morph the cat]

Yeah, that's the post I didn't like.

I assume you haven't played with either of them? Maybe Nacho has.

[morph the cat]

Why are there ten pages already? Ugh. Catching up.

Nb4 this is how he enters.

[morph the cat]

Who would ever have predicted a beetlejuice post about now?

[morph the cat]

Zach do you enjoy playing scum?

[morph the cat]

Hell yes.

I asked because as scum one head of this hydra really doesn't like wading in to big huge messy thread interactions and put down opinions about it. And will make excuses about synching for hours (sometimes a day or more) to avoid opining until the dust has settled.

Your posts make me wonder if that's what I'm seeing.

[morph the cat]

If morph pushed wisdom I don't think it was to the extent I'm being sorted

We haven't pushed wisdom.

We haven't significantly pushed you, so far anyway.

I'm also occasionally expressing wonderment to neuterhalf over how synchronous my thoughts have been with kraska. Mine are less emphatic, but based on her posts in the game we seem to be working up a pretty significant synch for someone I've never played with before.

[morph the cat]

You realize when my morph vote was made morph had 3 posts on page 1 and none of them were Ai


Have no clue why you think just because I don't change the vote and I start interacting with people that it makes me have a congruent scumread on morph.. that's way too obvious of a misrep

this isnt congruent at all with what i know zach to be like. like...zero reads up till now from townzach? no way
also tone reading and townhunting is zach's thing and he wouldnt dismiss everything we have till now as rvs
plus zach and dunn just dont strike me as the type of pair to care to synchronize their posting lol

You can't meta me though, for christs sake. Dunn has known me for 4 years and he's tunneled on me in several games because not town zach and it gets grating


I know YOUR concern but I think OT just genuinely is reading my fucking actions wrong... that entire post hinges on our morph vote being serious, LMAO

Are you getting any reads from the reactions to your vote/posts?

[morph the cat]

morph did you treat my vote on you like OT did...?

Nope.

My concern was that you were treating everything through page 7 as RVS.

[morph the cat]

Zach and Dunn still being complete nonentities on page 7 is not a good look. Are you keeping the vote on morph because a scumread transpired? How serious was the vote to begin with?

Most of the stuff doesn't interest me, you're trying to sort a slot who's just posted pictures

How serious was the vote to begin with?

How serious was our vote on the first page? Gee good question kraska lol



morphs posts are really mostly meta tho so I'm fine with keeping the vote there until Dunn and I convene and I see where his handle is at on the situation, he hasn't said a lot

Plus we are on page 7 RVS

What did you mean by the enlarged/emboldened?

[morph the cat]

I'm kinda townreading Tammy for her concerns about Nacho breaking down arguments for townreading her/ceph.

[morph the cat]

Could you explain your bins read?

[morph the cat]

I like your second point a lot.

I've played with Bins once, and I think it was her first newbie game or something.

[morph the cat]

Ffery and I are both drinking this night away because nobody will dance with us. Somebody should save our livers. I have work tomorrow for fuck's sake.

[morph the cat]

struth

[morph the cat]

I remember in a game I had earlier with tammy
a very similar exchange happened and if memory

Serves correctly, it was a TvS with nacho as scum
If history repeats, I would expect him to keep mum

Thus I'm willing to say this is TvT with a cursory glance
but it seems this exchange has begun to advance

I believe this as a posting restriction

welcome to yesterday.

[morph the cat]

Spoiler:

Okay so where do I start. Basically Dunn agrees with me that scumreading us for our level of interest in a conversation is just inept, but I just got fucking glaringly misrepped by implying that directly correlating an RVS vote to a read and that is not something we're gonna walk past especially since that hasn't even been clarified whether or not it was genuinely the case and now it's kinda significant to me cause I actually didn't know that's what Oil Tycoons was pushing me on until the middle of 258. Taking that into account now, we have looked at said interaction. Still he came online when I was nearly sleep as fuck and barely said stuff so as for the meta the jury is still out on that but guess what? Zach's going to give a fuck now

When the OT/ morph interaction begins on page 3 it is useless meta and noise that means nothing to me.

Page 4: 87 is sorting people. Questioning people isn't indicative of solving to me until we get into the specific questions. Again, what OT engages morph with in this post hinges on them knowing each other

88 is the best post on that page.

it's most because Nacho's entrance rubs me off the wrong way.

Why? What posts specifically?

As for what you should be doing about your early read on us, this seems like a pretty good start to me! If you're onto something, you pointing it out could help someone else who's feeling badly about us change their bad feelings into words. If you're horribly wrong, you getting the chance to talk to me about what I'm doing so that you can understand our approach better helps both of us read each other.

Mmmmm reading this post I just get warm feelings of hatred for fuzzy things

We figured this current outcome would happen regardless. I personally pushed to troll you before we even got our role PM, unless we both drew scum it was gonna be trolly mctrollface.

The fact that it's working as intended is music to my ears.

We have approximately a negative five percent chance of this ending up with you scum reading us in the end.

Lmao

And I can very easily see you pushing to troll us early game, but ffery agreeing and delivering so beautifully? It doesn't really seem like her style to start us out on a bad interaction right off the bat, but maybe she has a different perspective on how to play town now...?

Oh look, here's a post that means nothing to me in the way of sorting these two people cause it relies on shit I don't know is true or not. My first instinct with like the backwards way I've interacted with this game is to throw a vote here. The vote's coming, let's be real. The majority of interaction so far has been two friends having a conversation, which is of course always fucking AI.

Her play style and my play style within morph don't exist. It's become quite a happy fusion of both.

We have our reasons to approach the game from a troll nacho perspective.

I have to say, it's at this point I realize I don't know what I'm doing.

Cabd is telling me that their hydra decided to pull a Slayer's gambit and intentionally provide a scummy opening because ~reasons~. I noted that was a waste of time because it wouldn't be useful in helping to read me or in helping me to read their slot.

So wait I cant read

What whatshisname did at all is not a slayer's gambit, deciding to troll pregame is not a slayer's gambit

Cabd is telling me that their hydra decided to pull a Slayer's gambit and intentionally provide a scummy opening because ~reasons~. I noted that was a waste of time because it wouldn't be useful in helping to read me or in helping me to read their slot.

Is not a slayers gambit. I'll discuss it when I'm not on phone.

Finally something I can take interest in,,,...

I'm probably very stupidly stuck on the "last game wasn't enough of a challenge for you" bit. It's not like I did any significant work last game at all (got hard carried by Tammy, which is probably why town won), and the implication that she's doing this to make the game harder is... weird? I find their explanations for their opening to be weird as well - they've implied that they're doing this intentionally (we both like opening this way) and accidentally (I'm "mostly" here for you, at a dive bar). I'm currently pushing myself to table it, but it's something I'd like you/Tammy specifically to keep an eye on because I don't think this looks like town-morph so far at all.

That was a joke, though it's rooted in my dissatisfaction with being chained to my meta even though I don't feel like it's even possible to just pick up where I left off a year ago.

I know my opening was weird. I was running around getting ready to go out and see some bands, and the people who were posting so far aren't familiar to me yet.

And I knew that would bother people, and particularly bother you, but I wasn't going to cancel my plans just because this game started when it did. This wasn't a troll, but I felt like the results were highly predictable.

In an alternate reality I would be here glued to the keyboard all night, and I feel like that's the reality you expected. It used to be a meta tell that I'd hide and let Cabd take the lead when we drew scum, and I remember in GiF's pick and ban micro you decided we were scum because Cabd posted first or something, and you thought I sounded like I was being too careful and taking too long to reply to you.

I don't want to have to worry about that kind of shit. All our games have evolved, and you can bet that if we had drawn scum I wouldn't be hiding, though I imagine I'd be posting with great care.

And that's the thing. The reason I don't have to care about a crappy first few posts is because I'm town and I'm happy about it. And I feel like that's what you've missed tonight, though maybe it doesn't come through that well when I'm phoneposting and having to hit submit 5 or 6 times to get a word in. I'm happy, I'm going to enjoy this game, and I'm confident that my alignment will be obvious. I've had 2 good games since coming back from hiatus and this is going to be another one.

Wow you guys should make a TV show or something Id be more inclined to watch this

My expectation with your openings is not that you are sitting at your computer constantly refreshing, but that your early opening has signs of searching. They weren't there yet. My assumption was not that you were hiding, but you were lacking something that you usually had and so I pressed it.

I'm here for you!

Kinda.

Mostly I'm at a dive bar.

This post came next. While it wasn't that particularly pinged my scumdar, it wasn't

really

the response I was looking for (I expected a bit of pushback for whatever reason), so I kept digging.

Nacho is doing exactly what i expect right now regardless of alignment.

This post is the post that pushed it from a "not really worried" scumread to something more significant - dismissing my opening as a something NAI didn't really seem natural and isn't something that I really think is accurate. Without this post, I very likely would have left your slot alone after #62, which was the reaction I expected initially. #70 bothered me a bit when it seemed like your opinion changed to "this is more likely to be an opinion Nacho has as town" when it wasn't that way before, but things snowballed for a bit when Cabd came in thread and implied that you were doing everything as a Slayer's gambit, which made me see the "last game wasn't enough of a challenge for you" comment in a new light. Your overall response was fair enough.

Your explanation on this relies on what you expect Nacho to do which is fine but it's you construing something as a Slayer's gambit that obviously isn't? morph defends your actions though with meta, my favorite thing in the world

*Break to note that 168 actually has AI shit in it, lmao

Ffery, I realize you didn't say it was a Slayer's Gambit but Cabd strongly implied otherwise:

I personally pushed to troll you before we even got our role PM, unless we both drew scum it was gonna be trolly mctrollface.

The fact that it's working as intended is music to my ears.

We have our reasons to approach the game from a troll nacho perspective.

Fwiw this approach is giving results because I already have at least three initial reads I'm happy with.

Alisae, dreal, imp all putting data down early. Worth every fake penny.

HAHAHAAHHAHHAAAHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA, LMFAO

TLDR Zach expends his time for something he thought had way more content than it actually did and reacts late to getting pushed for immensely stupid shit. Dance with me.

VOTE: Oil Tycoons

Yeah got nothing from that except OT posted a lot but only some of that was shit I actually cared to use, misrepped morph and then later misreps me, and morph the cat is actually kind of towny.

What was great about post 88? And what was alignment indicative about 168?

And why didn't you at least link to these posts or comment about them? Some of the stuff you did bother to comment about in that spoilered quotestripe wall were kinda meh, and your commentary on them sounds confused.

[morph the cat]

if this is ffery
we won, i was the cop and it was you/mala/n_m(scumfk) i think
to jog the memory
cabd modded
reunited

Yep, that one. n_m fake claimed cop and you counterclaimed on the last game day. I was dead by then, but it was fun to watch.

[morph the cat]

Not feeling that vote.

[morph the cat]

Actually, my entrance was potentially alignment indicative and was definitely worth pushing me about.

[morph the cat]

That's not part of my entrance. I think you're seeing our posts as a seamless entity, though, which explains a little about you OT case.

[morph the cat]

OT's problems with my entrance were already established at the top of page 3. What he was expecting to see from me on page 1 and 2 since I'd posted at all was poking around and questioning things. Maybe even call out a read.

I'd do that as scum or town (or I'd gripe at the lack of usable content if I couldn't), and he'd focus on figuring out if the questions and read(s) sounded natural or forced. Instead, he got a "hello" to Bins and that was it.

[morph the cat]

I say it was AI and OT obviously thought it was AI. You can disagree, but you're doing so without context after I gave you the context.

[morph the cat]

hello i am still caught up have nothing to say and am generally finding this game boring

I can't decide if valhalla's apparent view of the game holds together as something a player would actually think is going on.

[morph the cat]

sleep is always a good option.

[morph the cat]

but if you think their concept of what's gone on so far makes sense I'd be happy to hear about that.

[morph the cat]

That post was to alisae.

[morph the cat]

but, not just wrt to us, wrt your reasons for scumreading OT.

[morph the cat]

hey ffery
Lets vote kraska

btw is this an indication your vote is not RVS now?

[morph the cat]

I don't particularly think they are scum.

Tepid read you've got there.

[morph the cat]

there were some aspects of your reasons for finding my reaction to your scumreading me that confuse me. They're either incredibly useful insights into what you think my town game is, or they're indications you were making up some shit here and there.

I'm not sure which, yet.

[morph the cat]

i love you guys and all but i can only go so many layers deep on who expects whom to act how before my brain just shuts off and says no, i'm sorry, you can't care about this, i'm not even letting you try

But we're only on the first dream hop? There's at least three dream layers to go!

[morph the cat]

there were some aspects of your reasons for finding my reaction to your scumreading me that confuse me. They're either incredibly useful insights into what you think my town game is, or they're indications you were making up some shit here and there.

I'm not sure which, yet.

then show a little more of your hand and let's talk about them!

In general they have to do with you expecting me to push back in that circumstance, and the inferences you were drawing from the For You micro.

[morph the cat]

I was talking about me, spayhalf.

[morph the cat]

alright friends I am caught up

think I'm about here
town: {Alisae, Oil Tycoons, Warthogs}
town-but-less-town-than-the-above-town-tier: {Wisdom, Bins, Va-11 Hall-A}
maaaaaybe town: {morph the cat}
null: {dreal, BYF, Nosferatu}
scum: {implosion, kraska}

gonna wind back and call out a few things with my next few posts

Why are you townreading Wisdom?

[morph the cat]

alright friends I am caught up

think I'm about here
town: {Alisae, Oil Tycoons, Warthogs}
town-but-less-town-than-the-above-town-tier: {Wisdom, Bins, Va-11 Hall-A}
maaaaaybe town: {morph the cat}
null: {dreal, BYF, Nosferatu}
scum: {implosion, kraska}

gonna wind back and call out a few things with my next few posts

Why are you townreading Wisdom?

cause he didn't try to stir any bullshit out of the morph/OT/warthogs round table and is also pushing kraska. I think scum!Wisdom could have tried to instigate more drama from what he had but the "nothing interested me" angle feels genuine and appropriate.

This is basically why I have him at a slight townlean right now. I want to see more from him.

[morph the cat]

Vote: Nosferatu

Not a synch (yet) but that looks like scum hopping the wagon to me.

You had alisae at the bottom of your reads list just above that vote.

[morph the cat]

Kraska's and my reads/reactions were tracking pretty closely all the way up to post 387. I'd come around to a townlean, and she doubled down on the scumread. That's my only real question mark about her play. And yet, the votes are piling on.

[morph the cat]

@morph that list was on page ten
a lot has happened since then

You mean, you'd read to page 10 when you made the list?

The vote still feels scummy to me.

[morph the cat]

Nos you trying to collab?

nah im still a dictionary rapper right now, yeah
imma go from aesop rock to goethe

You mean, you'd read to page 10 when you made the list?

you'd be correct
iirc i said it in the post if you wanna check

What else changed in your reads?
In sympathy, I'll rhyme my screeds.

Payment in couplets due
Since replies require them of you.

[morph the cat]

You have some terrible reads.

All of them, some of them, or just the one on you?

[morph the cat]

tbh I just haven't really read a single morph post.

I'm insulted.

(I swear kaska's stalking morph-gtalk)

[morph the cat]

@Alisae I don't care about Nosferatu voting the same person as you. I care about him adding heat to that wagon at the point where he added it -- for tone. If I'm not mistaken, kraska's at L-2 now.

[morph the cat]

oil tycoons feels crafted
I'm starting to get the feeling that ceph/tammys even more crafted

yet ppl are townreading there
please help I have no meta basis but i'd like to understand

I'm still weighing both of them.

Nacho worries me a little, though at the time I felt like his push on me Sunday night was coming from town-Nacho. Syr's appearance yesterday afternoon felt like town-Syr to me. I don't expect his reads and pushes to be perfect (or in perfect agreement with my opinions), but they make more sense and are more fleshed out when he's town.

I thought Syr would want to interact with my hydra more than he did.

Tammy's early interactions with Nacho looked like town-tammy, but I'm not at the point where I'd townbin ceph/her.

There might be another nacho-ffery meta-thrash session next time we're both in the game thread for any length of time.

[morph the cat]

It's disconcerting to continually start a post and get a pre-edit showing someone else has already made the post.

Especially when it's the same somebody.

every time.

[morph the cat]

Alisae I'd like it a lot if you'd try to explain your Nosferatu townread (again? Maybe you already tried and it went right over my head. Something about him just happening to vote the same player you were?

What was your reference to voting Brian Skiies in another game about?

[morph the cat]

@Alisae I don't care about Nosferatu voting the same person as you. I care about him adding heat to that wagon at the point where he added it -- for tone. If I'm not mistaken, kraska's at L-2 now.

I'm very confused where tone comes into play
is it that I put her to L-2 with perceived weak reasoning, ay?

I know that it's difficult to be both comprehensive and poetic
But, yeah. a one word reason plus vote isn't copacetic

Factors are timing and effect
It's like all but get rekt?

[morph the cat]

I still feel like we haven't scratched the surface of this game btw.

Agree. I've been casting around for a stake in the ground.

Actually
my townread just strengthened on Nos for very shitty reasons.

What are those reasons? I'm not intentionally trying to be a pain. I'm trying to figure out how to read you, and trying to figure out if my other reads are problematic.

There are quite a few players in this game I have zero experience with. I can't mentally fill in the blanks on their vote and read reasons.

[morph the cat]

To put it simply
I don't think Nos is faking a post restriction
I think he has one
and I think town for it
and Ithink his flavour
is town



Yeah



I said these were bad reasons

I initially wanted to assume the posting restriction means town. And I sympathize that it makes putting thoughts down harder.. When he made a post yesterday indicating that the posting restriction made him not want to post/catch-up or whatever it was, I felt like that wasn't alignment indicative, but still kinda sympathized.

I don't think it's a safe assumption though. I want to judge him on his content, adjusting for the difficulties.

[morph the cat]

We may get to the same place from different directions eventually.

What are your issues with Implosion?

[morph the cat]

Implosions initial posts, especially when he was calling out OT had this combination of assertiveness and townhunting that I remember from earlier games. And I kinda liked that he went at Nacho, who isn't the easiest target in this player list.

I'm going to review some old games. I think he told me that a game I modded was his most recent scum game. And that game was in like 2014 or early 2015 iirc.

[morph the cat]

I'm tempted to call {alisae, bins, oil tycoons, morph} town, with possible additional inclusions of {guiltylion, kraska}. morph feels like what I know of town ffery in general but the single thing that makes me feel strongly on that slot is the way ffery is talking about kraska. It could be a very skillful pocketing if she's scum but I don't think it is. I think I like GL's point towards me and I'm not entirely sure if he'd come up with it as scum or decide to push it. Given that I caught him quickly in that marathon game I don't think he'd gun immediately towards me as scum. kraska is completely unsubstantiated gut and I haven't really bought any of the points on her but I haven't read them in depth. I've mostly been trying to follow along at work so I'm not really rereading everything but her play reminds me of her town play to a degree.

Where did when warthogs fly go?

[morph the cat]

Also is your vote still RVS?

[morph the cat]

i already cant post a lot as scum
post restriction on top of that is dumb

This is in reply to
Someone, but who?

[morph the cat]

So a few years ago in a Tales of You game, not that one, the one where Nacho ended up getting mislynched at lylo as hider confirmed town, I opened with a joke that Nacho thought was lackluster. I had just woken up and saw my role pm and my joke was actually a crumb of sorts. Anyway, nacho push me for having a slow start and if I rolled scum against him I should try to make a more lively entrance or something like that. He pushed me pretty hard that game at the start both because he thought he saw something lame in my opening and he thought my reaction to his push would give him a read.

I see shades of that in his push on Morph. It's one of the options I was thinking he was doing. I'm not convinced that's what he was doing just yet; the other two options are not out of contention, but it's one thing I'm keeping in mind.

That's a parallel I hadn't thought of.

But, he ended the pressure a lot more easily here. And has indicated his read of me is still pretty weak, which makes me wonder why he isn't trying to nail it down.

Especially given some of his thoughts in the micro game about why he sometimes failed to correctly scumread me when I was scum.

I mean, I'd be unhappy about being grilled half to death, too. Basically, I don't think there's an obvious outcome that's going neatly and completely to put my concerns to rest anytime soon.

[morph the cat]

There is also a non-tiny part of me that is concerned that Cabd saw Nacho getting heat on ffery and decided to tada claim it was a gambit. Like midway, we decided to troll you haha it worked...then later so x,y,z put some data into the thread worth every fake penny.

That reads a bit fake to me, like it was a thing to save face once there was heat because they're the gambiteers dontchaknow.

Even if you keep saying it wasn't a slayer's gambit, you're framing it as one when you're saying you trolled and faked things for reads. I just don't know why if you're town you couldn't just be like nacho sit the fuck down I'm at a bar I'll town tomorrow. Cuz now I'm just side-eyeing both of you like this:

I've said all I've got to say about that in as great a detail as I have to give. Take it or leave it. I'll let Cabd know you're side-eying him, too, though.

[morph the cat]

Alisae, dreal, imp all putting data down early. Worth every fake penny.

How did those reads come about because of your fake pennies?

Wrong head answering, but the reason Cabd said this was because the reactions he was developing reads from were reactions to the interactions between Nacho and us.

I don't mind that Cabd played up my stumbling entrance to the game. I was happy that it zoomed the game out of RVS and into srs bsns. I'm ~slightly~ annoyed that he indicated I did it intentionally. That's where our playstyles still diverge, and I doubt either of us will change on this point.

[morph the cat]

Not going to worry about that.

I'm going to worry about figuring you guys out. I like some of Tammy's posts tonight. Particularly the one about Drealmerz comments to BYF, and the Tales of the Abyss game reference I hadn't thought about that part of the game in a very long time, and I think it's relevant to the interaction that started on page 3.

[morph the cat]

Not Abyss. Vesperia, I think.

[morph the cat]

I read the last several pages but the only thing I actually remember from it is fery commenting I didn't interact with her more

Response: We discussed talking reads then I got derailed by Zach. You wanna talk turkey, speak up next time.

It became more of an issue to me after Nacho's comment indicating how weak your(his?) read of us is.

I expect if you're not townreading me you'll be more interested in figuring me out.

I'll most likely be around tomorrow evening.

[morph the cat]

Ffery and I are both drinking this night away because nobody will dance with us. Somebody should save our livers. I have work tomorrow for fuck's sake.

struth

Last night while I was busy elsewhere I was kinda keeping an eye on this thread so I'd have a decent idea of what was going on before I could actually read some of the game tonight.

Anyway my reaction upon reading this last night was that it feels somewhat fettered. Like there's just something holding you back. You've popped in and asked questions, and I agree with whoever said that your read on kraska for saying she looks good for saying the things you say looks good for you though I've fake the same as scum, but still you do feel like you're holding back. It felt like you were popping in here to be noticed because you think you should but not really just digging at things like you might if nobody was here.

I don't know if I feel as strongly about this as I felt last night, but I don't want to forget my first feeling so here it is.

I don't think these two posts have anything to do with what I feel is a problem with the game for me right now, but it's probably bleeding into my play somewhat. I'm still looking for at least one good rock solid townread on someone(s) whose ability as a town player I trust.

Instead, I'm learning to read alignment (I hope) via unfamiliar playstyles on a bunch of players I have zero experience with.

I think in other circumstances, being suspicious to players I'd ordinarily want to sort and TRUST would throw me off in a really bad way.

[morph the cat]

morph decided to not play this game straight for whatever silly purposes

they

decided to at the start of the game.

That is a misrep, Tammy.

And that's it for me. I"m done. The reach out if there is one will have to come from you.

[morph the cat]

ffery-head is taking a break from the game today. In effect, this means our hydra will be low-to-no posting until sometime tomorrow.

I'll pop in and check for Syr-posting later.

[morph the cat]

@Syr I have to go out but I'll be back about an hour from the time of this post. Hope I don't miss you.

@Implosion when I get back if you're still here, want to discuss reads?


I'll be around and back at full steam tomorrow, if tonight doesn't work.

[morph the cat]

If I'm here then sure. Or if not then well, it's a forum.

Do you have a significant amount of confidence atm in Nosferatu-scum? Has your read on Nos changed since your vote?

No I don't. I've been kinda waiting for Cabd to catch up and see what he thinks, but that probably won't happen until tomorrow.

Were you in the hunterxhunterx game? I think you were. I should check, but I'm going to just assume you were and that you'll remember this incident in the game on day 1.

Remilia Scarlet hydra-Bork came into the thread all grumpy because GiF hadn't been around to talk to for a couple days and he didn't want to put down reads without some discussion with GiF first, but finally said fuck it and posted a big post of reads. On his main as I recall, which made him even grumpier.

Anyway, Remembrance townread him for that and called him "lonely" and said that scum bork wouldn't be lonely and upset about throwing undiscussed reads into the game because he wouldn't need his hydra partner as much because he'd have his scum team to talk to.

That observation/townread made a huge impression on me for some reason because it was such an empathetic approach to reading Bork's mindset.

This is a completely different situation and Nos is not a hydra, but I feel like maybe the grumpiness would be different - more for show and less ~real~ feeling if he had buddies to talk to in a PT and maybe to brainstorm a bunch of rhyming words he could slam onto the end of a sentence and call it a poem. "Oh hey how about "in truth" and "forsooth"" and shit like that.

Anyway. I'm not sure I'm reading the grumpiness and apathy right. Maybe there is more for-show than I think? And, it's been over 24 hours since he last posted, I think, and that could be apathy or just going away for a while to see if the votes will magically shed off.

I wanted to dump this on you because I think you were in that game, too.

Decided to check before hitting submit, and yes, you were.

[morph the cat]

Nacho, do you remember that exchange?

[morph the cat]

My hydra was killed on N1, so I don't remember as much about the later days of the game besides cheering all the stomping from the Dead QT.

I don't remember ever playing with GuiltyLion so he's a bit of a cypher. I don't really want to do a meta dive, but I may make myself.

Your read basis resonated some.

His reads list didn't impress me much, since he had you and kraska both in his scumpile. I was townish with a splash of null on you so his read of you didn't impress me. You put enough context around why as town he might read you that way.

His null pile is where my interest in sorting lies right now.

Dreal never made that catch up post.

[morph the cat]

Actually
UNVOTE:
I'm in a tunnel aren't I
hmmmmmmmm

recognition is the first step out of the Labyrinth!

[morph the cat]

Fery you still alive

I meant to dance with ya today but I fell asleep in my goddamn chair, old man that I am XD

I'll try to be around again tonight.

[morph the cat]

sigh

[morph the cat]

Given his presence in the game prior to the page 10 through whatever catchup, I assumed it wasn't a first-time read type of catch up.

However, I don't like this post:

this pr is demotivating
my mood needs elevating

will iso kraska tomorrow
will get me back in, whoa

He's had his vote on kraska for 2 days and yet he's not getting around to isoing her until whenever "tomorrow" is in his timezone. Presumably sometime in the next 12 hours.

[morph the cat]

I'm not sure what you're asking.

[morph the cat]

He had a scattering of posts here and there prior to his reads list, which is why I assumed that he'd been following along to at least some extent. But there were over 200 posts between his last post prior to 412.

You have a point about how quickly he caught up from there and cranked out his first reads list, though.

I was caught by surprise when he went from that reads list to voting kraska.

[morph the cat]

His null pile is where my interest in sorting lies right now.

am I understanding this right in that you are saying you want to use the nulls in my readslist to decide where to look? Why?

No, the nulls in your reads list correspond with most of the players in my players of concern list. I'm not scumreading either of the players that were in your scumpile.

[morph the cat]

He's had his vote on kraska for 2 days and yet he's not getting around to isoing her until whenever "tomorrow" is in his timezone. Presumably sometime in the next 12 hours.

my appearance in thread has been
rather scarce if you havent been in

With your reading speed touted
A mere iso could easily be spouted

In in the time
it takes to rhyme

[morph the cat]

I think I'm okay with calling implosion town for now,

but the Chiaotzu wagon is better than the Nos wagon

VOTE: Chiaotzu

Elaborate?

[morph the cat]

He's had his vote on kraska for 2 days and yet he's not getting around to isoing her until whenever "tomorrow" is in his timezone. Presumably sometime in the next 12 hours.

my appearance in thread has been
rather scarce if you havent been in

With your reading speed touted
A mere iso could easily be spouted

In in the time
it takes to rhyme

im lyrically challenged
each word i post has been scavenged

Have you done that iso?
If not, then why so?
If you did through it root
Then where is the loot?

[morph the cat]

was oil tycoons supposed to disappear

I think it's expectable.

[morph the cat]

It means that from what I've seen Nacho tends do be sporadic in his game appearances due to his work schedule. Syr's appearances have been a night time thing, and he posted after I'd gone to sleep last night that he'd try dance with me tonight.

Re Nos:
- I didn't like his vote on kraska - the timing, the reasoning ("tone") and the effect (L-2)
- He's making a lot of excuses, being kinda whiny and appeasy about his post restriction making it hard to do stuff. And by a lot, it's there in most of his recent posts. I was feeling sympathetic about it, but something about his tone caused that switch to flip
- I don't have a lot of conviction that he's scum, but I have more conviction right now on him than on anyone else.

I'm concerned that drealz posted he had an amazing catchup incoming and then didn't post an amazing catchup

I was concerned about BYF, but so far I like choatzu's content, and as you've mentioned the BYF replace-out had a town feel to it.

Who are your scumreads?

[morph the cat]

is it really lack of keeping promises when i said i would iso tomorrow which is today
like idk what the rush is about, ay

It's not the lack of keeping promises -- I wept
o'er the rush to simplify that which has depth.

'tis not only your rush
Bins, too, should blush.

[morph the cat]

can we not speak in tongues, I don't know what that means

not enough scumreads, quite a few nulltown reads,

gonna start scumreading the people who disappeared like dreal
so yeah I can buy the "only enough conviction on nos thing"

i'm worried about my read on your slot too =/

I only rhyme when posting at Nos. It keeps me well-reminded of what that kind of posting restriction does to one's ability to convey information.

Do you see parallels in my play here and in your newbie game?

[morph the cat]

My snark level goes up about 1.5 notches in this hydra, and I'm slightly (as in there's a non-zero chance) more likely to assist in gambits in this hydra than on my own or an any other hydra except maybe Sound of Silence with GiF. Mostly I just stand aside and don't scream OMG WHAT ARE YOU DOING.

[morph the cat]

ok i just gotta make it rhyme
gotta make these bars sublime

Ok now you're just pissing me off
Is this supposed to be some kind of scoff?

Where in this post is content about the game?
C'mon Nos, are you being intentionally(?) lame?

[morph the cat]

Thanks

I appreciate the efforting
and the gerund hunting.

[morph the cat]

this isn't everything you've come to expect
so don't get excited just yet
171
shading va11halla for not leading town or something on page 7 is something i abhor
since i know she's played with both of them before
175
seems like the point of the gambit is for them to notice somethings up
so I have no idea where's the hold up
220
I don't like the k77 waiting until someone else started talking
to voice her opinion on the response to the accusations she's making

239
claims to be working off of low info
yet is shading for lack of presence in a low-info
stage of the game
if anything this could just be burden of proficiency read which would be lame

253
for a case that seems fairly grounded in meta,
this is not something i see as unusual...opretta

261
continuing the town!zach doesn't not have scum nailed by page 7 meme, ayy

297
I do agree with the first sentence of this post, ayy

387
this is where the tonal read began
i find it odd geting mad
at a slot for not having content
and then accuse them of consequent
ly just making a case to satisfy everyone
seems rather not genuine

399 i dont like the use of the word caricatures to describe things you've actually said, ay
418 This sounds like justifying taking a whole lot of nothing to make something, ay

468
I hate those "who is scum" posts.
seems easy even for a lampposts
Might not be AI but just seems sooo low effort psuedohunting.
something something fuck it transubstantiation

I want to line-by-line this wall
but doing so would cast a pall

The target should have first reply
Then I can amplify

[morph the cat]

Nobody ever wants me; even when I'm finally gonna be back and reading and sycning and placing our vote somewhere on syncscum.

BRB sadding.

[morph the cat]

No but seriously, whenever she gets here is great; but at some point you'll have to learn how to read morph through me and not through her. It doesn't have to be today.

[morph the cat]

Thoughts on nos; the posting restriction, and said nos' relationship with their karsa vote?

[morph the cat]

kraska vote is terribad.

Here I think we agree; although I haven't processed YE OLDE WALL OF REASONZ

[morph the cat]

but also Cabd said you playstyle is different in the hydra so idk

Care to get into this?

[morph the cat]

ffery here. I started going through the pbpt, but don't want to post my thoughts on it until kraska responds to it.

[morph the cat]

but also Cabd said you playstyle is different in the hydra so idk

Care to get into this?

To be clear; why you think this matters; not if I said it.

[morph the cat]

I don't particularly think they are scum.

Tepid read you've got there.

That's an accurate observation.

So how do you guys plan to solidify this read? I haven't seen much sorting of us since Nacho moved your vote to Wisdom.

[morph the cat]

Sorry I'm not being more helpful :/

I'm just pretty solidly fuckless after work today

We can just be in thread trust fund and leave the actual work to sangres.

[morph the cat]

So how do you guys plan to solidify this read? I haven't seen much sorting of us since Nacho moved your vote to Wisdom.

Truthfully I plan to leave sorting the two of you to Nacho. Until he tells me otherwise I'm just gonna treat you like town.

I generally trust town-Nacho to get the read right when I'm town. It usually doesn't take long.

I've been reading your half of the hydra as likely town simply because you're showing up and doing stuff. It's been a long time since I've played with scum-you, but as I recall your scum play doesn't look like it.

[morph the cat]

Or we can be in-thread Rift, and let Trolling Fairy do the hard work. That works too!

[morph the cat]

I'm bothered that he gave no explanation for his vote change today. I feel like with his low-posting play style I'm going to have to meta him to make much sense of it. And I don't want to meta anybody right now.

[morph the cat]

That could be his overall playstyle. Or not.

grumble. meta. grumble.

[morph the cat]

Heh. I fooled bins. Does this count towards our ongoing bet Ffery?

[morph the cat]

I was looking at the playerlist and trying to remember what I think of various people

Does GuiltyLion feel kind of off to you two?

I have relevant meta but ughhhhhh using meta.

[morph the cat]

We will be putting out a vote and a reads wall tonight. It will probably end up there.

[morph the cat]

I don't know why Oil Tycoons is setting up to jump on this like they are



also the meta thing @ffery, idk Cabd mentioned it a bunch
"fusion of playstyle", felt significant
you got townread in the newbie game by putting in effort, which they took as town, I probably would have too
I doubt you'd do that in this game

Their effort level expectations were pretty low, actually. And I was ok with that!

[morph the cat]

Okay, i'm at a real keyboard now. You still around, Sasha?

[morph the cat]

Guess not.

[morph the cat]

This Summer's TownBlock(Buster): Coming to a Theater Near you!

Warthogs

: Both halves are comfortable with this. Although some of it is for reason's we'd rather not tip our hand to as of yet.

Kraska

: Falling off slightly, but still probably belongs here. Probably will either strengthen or drop drastically once more data starts hitting the thread again after their V/LA.

To(wn) be Continued...

Alisae

: Not in the tier above because his most recent stuff has been mehface posting.

Oil

: We have our reservations. We likely will until somebody gets around to night-killing us. Paranoia's a bitch. Might move them up eventually but this is no "For Us"

Implosion

: Cabd scumread their first few posts but everything after has given us good stubborn!town feels.

Town, but not Enough to Get a Funny Pun

Bins

: ffery has never played with Bins, but she watched part of a micro game where Bins turned out to be scum. Her posts in that game felt soooooo empty. There's content here, and it's mostly content we can understand and even nod our heads to a little bit now and then.

Valhalla

: Ffery has them above bins. Cabd has them playing limbo with the line of lynch-ability.

~~~~~~~~~~LINE OF LYNCHABILITY~~~~~~~~~~

Not Our First Choice, but Fucking do Something Else Besides Your One Townish Post we Liked

:

Drealmerz

: We know you're trying out a play style that ends with not hating everything; but we'd also appreciate you dipping your toes into things that you aren't avoiding. We did like the questions to Nacho.

Wisdom

: Who are you and what the fuck did you do to the tunnelerific Wisdom we know and

love

?

Chiaotzu

: Rising. We had this slot below in the bad no-no tier until today. The BYF replace out looked kinda town, and the content so far looks ok. He's found new and different things to say about why Nos is breaking our hearts.

Sharpening Our Claws...

Nosferatu

: ffery didn't like his vote on kraska - the timing, the reasoning ("tone") and the effect (L-2). This isn't an strongly convicted read, but it's the strongest scumread we've got at this point We'll have more to say about the Sonnet Wall in the not too distant future.

[morph the cat]

Bins: ffery has never played with Bins, but she watched part of a micro game where Bins turned out to be scum. Her posts in that game felt soooooo empty. There's content here, and it's mostly content we can understand and even nod our heads to a little bit now and then.

uh not to be that guy, but which game? my most recent scum micro?

viewtopic.php?f=83&t=72351 ?

that game lasted less than a week, most of which I was at kingsmeet
I was essentially V/LA the entire game

it was a good game, but I literally had nothing to do with the win because yeah, town just sort of confidently picked wrong.... over... and over...


idk
weird game to pick
sorry my comment is kind of irrelevant but I wanted to point that out

but I am trying, don't tend to post a lot of "content filled" posts as either alignment. that's something i'm trying to improve

That was the one. I tuned in toward the end of the second day. I don't remember why it was even on my radar.

To be fair I thought several in the game has really empty feeling posts.

[morph the cat]

i'd jump on the chiaotzu wagon over Nos

my 2 cents

I thought you liked byf's exit posts?

What about his posts makes him worse than nos?

[morph the cat]

Wisdom: Who are you and what the fuck did you do to the tunnelerific Wisdom we know and love?

who should i tunnel in your opinion?

Do you not have scumreads?

[morph the cat]

they don't even have guiltylions in their read list
how dare they.

Not putting lion on a tier or the reads for a specific reason I realized. It'll come soon enough with an explanation.

[morph the cat]

I have GuiltyLions below the line of lynchability, on about the Wisdom level. Cabd has him somewhere else (not sure exactly where and our mindmeld time is over for tonight, I think).

We want to move some players above the line, which is where my efforts will go next. And I hope players will start (or continue) to step it up.

[morph the cat]

Wisdom: Who are you and what the fuck did you do to the tunnelerific Wisdom we know and love?

who should i tunnel in your opinion?

Do you not have scumreads?

no

That seems pretty unusual for you from what I remember?

[morph the cat]

okay but like
your readlist
looks really really a lot like a scumread list
just sayin~

Where do we strongly disagree?

[morph the cat]

okay but like
your readlist
looks really really a lot like a scumread list
just sayin~

Where do we strongly disagree?

It's not that I agree or disagree
it just looks like a scumreadlist

Like you have nos for the most part most of the time plays like this (And he's my top townread but this isn't really why I hate it)
and then you have a bunch of meh posters that are easily lynchable just above them.

I don't want to go into a lot of details about the Sonnet Wall yet, but I am curious if you read it and read the posts he linked to comment on.

Because I kinda hoped that a big chunk of content would change my mind, and it didn't. :/

Maybe this is typical of the way he analyzes shit as town though. That's one of the things I'll do a little research on tomorrow. I've played with people that I know I'm going to totally disagree with at times and it doesn't mean they're scum.

Wisdom is actually one of those players. One of the last games I played with him, he replaced in and immediately got one of my nullish-townish reads lynched. I was stuck the rest of the game sure he was town, but not trusting his reads AT ALL.

[morph the cat]

like
the stances just make a lot of sense
coming from scum.

They are coming from Morph.

And Morph is town.

[morph the cat]

At this point in the game
scum!Nos would decide to support some other wagon that's not kraska
not tunnel kraska.


pedit: It's a gut read wis.

This is the most helpful thing you've said about him and why you're not scumreading him.

I'll take it under advisement.

[morph the cat]

I mean
I have the other reasons which I already talked about and are bad reasons imo.

I know. Bad reasons aren't very convincing.

[morph the cat]

Looking at the other wagons, none of them really call out to me. :/

[morph the cat]

Maybe some research will clear a few questions up, though.

[morph the cat]

At this point in the game
scum!Nos would decide to support some other wagon that's not kraska
not tunnel kraska.


pedit: It's a gut read wis.

I see that Nos has touched on this, too, but I want to know if you're saying that Nos is more tunnelly as town?

I'm in the middle of a meta dive and I think tunneling vs not per alignment is something I should be looking for. True?

[morph the cat]

Votecount 1.12

<3

Beautiful!

[morph the cat]

At this point in the game
scum!Nos would decide to support some other wagon that's not kraska
not tunnel kraska.


pedit: It's a gut read wis.

I see that Nos has touched on this, too, but I want to know if you're saying that Nos is more tunnelly as town?

I'm in the middle of a meta dive and I think tunneling vs not per alignment is something I should be looking for. True?

i dont think youre gonna find any tunneling
so i dont know if its something to look for transubstantiating

Partway through, I'm not.
Though I've found things I hadn't sought.

But, I am saddened now, about nuance and humor missed
analysis, exposition, by post restriction dismissed.

[morph the cat]

Nosferatu Meta

This is not a typical ffery meta dive report. I usually focus heavily on textual body language, and that's impossible to do with the posting restriction.

Large Normal 203: viewtopic.php?t=71848&f=55&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

Role was

mafia rolestopper

. Claimed a n0 cop guilty on Whymafia in his first day 1 post. Came off confident sounding and sarcastic at times in his posts. Was NKed by the town weak vigilante on the last night. It's hard to read textual body language with the posting restriction, but he looks more pissy and disgruntled in our game than in this one. Did a fair bit of moving votes around in the game, mostly in a followy-looking way.

Mini 1924 viewtopic.php?t=72430&f=54&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

Role was

Vanilla Town

. Fairly soon after his first serious vote came an ISO case (on 5 posts) in post 303. Confidence comes through in his posts here, too. Quickly moves on to another vote, and another. This is anything but sticky-voting, but it doesn't look as followy as the game above.

Mini 1891 viewtopic.php?t=70945&f=54&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

Role was

Town Odd Night Cop

Another game where he comes off really confident sounding from the start. Moves his vote around. I don't see anything particularly tunnelly looking in the early game.

This post amuses me; viewtopic.php?p=8970987#p8970987

His play in this game was nuanced and deep and I'm sad now that he has a posting restriction that will hamper that flow if he's town here.

Large Normal 199 viewtopic.php?t=69654&f=55&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

Role was

Mafia Motion Detector

. This iso looks shallow compared to his town isos. This seems to be one of the defining aspects of his scum game - it's not as analytical and his reasonings are super shallow compared to his town games.

I feel like I've gotten enough out of 4 games to have a general feel for some of the differences in his town and scum approaches. In this game, despite the posting restriction, I'm seeing enough depth in his reasoning (even though I think he's wrong about kraska) that I don't think this is his scum game. The posting restriction would give him massive excuse for not going into depth.

[morph the cat]

Unvote:

Now I'm feeling a little squinty-eyed about Implosion being on this wagon with us, since he played a game with Town Nos.

[morph the cat]

@GuiltyLion

What led to your taking your vote off kraska?

You said the Chiaotzu wagon was better than the Nos wagon. From skimming your posts I don't understand why you're scumreading Chiaotzu, or even if you are scumreading him. Hence my request yesterday for you to elaborate.

[morph the cat]

I'm concerned that drealz posted he had an amazing catchup incoming and then didn't post an amazing catchup

Where did the "amazing" bit come from here? dreal just said he had a catchup coming, said nothing about it's quality

don't worry, you won't have to prod me (:

I have a catchup post in the works!

When I read his post, I read the "!" to indicate he was excited about his catchup, hence it would be good, amazing, or at least something he was highly satisfied with. And that stuck with me throughout the wait.

I was concerned about BYF, but so far I like choatzu's content, and as you've mentioned the BYF replace-out had a town feel to it.

what did you like about choatzu's content?

I think I mentioned this last night. I liked that his comments about Nos' re-entry to the thread starting around post 400 were something new to the thread, not a rehash of others' reasons for concern with Nos. He was the first (and really the only) person to make a fuss about the elapsed time between Nos' posts and the number of pages Nos was processing in those periods of time. That kind of observation from someone who wasn't in the thread when the time was elapsing shows a fairly detail-oriented process of catching up and developing reads.

i offered to fix quote tags, offer was graciously accepted -EP

[morph the cat]

they don't even have guiltylions in their read list
how dare they.

normally I don't put much stock in people forgetting about a player when doing reads but this is a notable point in this instance because they said they were likely going to end up voting me in 724

It wasn't a "forget", though I didn't notice it when I read Cabd's planned post. He left you out intentionally and plans to revisit when the time is right.

I don't know what his read of you is right now, so you'll have to wait for now.

[morph the cat]

It wasn't a "forget", though I didn't notice it when I read Cabd's planned post. He left you out intentionally and plans to revisit when the time is right.

also, I saw that you said this the first time around. It seems too much like a convenient excuse to coverup a mistake. If I was left out intentionally you definitely should have noted that when you gave the readslist to begin with.

VOTE: morph the cat

This is the first vote on us that feels like a scum vote to me.

[morph the cat]

they don't even have guiltylions in their read list
how dare they.

normally I don't put much stock in people forgetting about a player when doing reads but this is a notable point in this instance because they said they were likely going to end up voting me in 724

It wasn't a "forget", though I didn't notice it when I read Cabd's planned post. He left you out intentionally and plans to revisit when the time is right.

I don't know what his read of you is right now, so you'll have to wait for now.

i'm starting to really dislike this

can't you also offer your read

i'm starting to get the feel that you don't want to upset people, which is why you went for Nos out of anything else
and all your scumreads are just the lurkers

I (ffery) am scumreading him. Though when I went through his iso this morning there was more meat to it than I remembered from reading in context. The trajectory on his vote gives me hives.

[morph the cat]

You need to get your ffery meter recalibrated.

I feel like I've gotten back in to the swing, but I went over a year without playing mafia and my game isn't going to be a continuous curve from early 2016.

[morph the cat]

if no one else is getting bad feelings about oil tycoons i guess i'll reassess

I don't have as good feelings about OT as I'd like at this point. It's disappointing to me that Syr is punting the read of our slot entirely to Nacho.

[morph the cat]

like, that trajectory comment felt like it was there just to be there
"Im ffery, i usually talk about trajectories, heres a trajectory comment"

You're really reaching here.

[morph the cat]

No, it is very much a thing ffery says.

I probably am putting in more detail than I would in a player list that mostly knows me well and vice versa, or in a list where I have some strong townreads I'm ready to work with (which usually comes down to the same thing).

I think the only person in this player list I'd even vaguely trust to extrapolate to where my playstyle/game is at right now is town-Nacho. Scum-Nacho wouldn't have to do the extrapolation.

[morph the cat]

What led to your taking your vote off kraska?

You said the Chiaotzu wagon was better than the Nos wagon. From skimming your posts I don't understand why you're scumreading Chiaotzu, or even if you are scumreading him. Hence my request yesterday for you to elaborate.

kraska wagon lost momentum as soon as it started going and I want new things to happen

I'm not particularly scumreading Chiaotzu but I'm not at all townreading him.

He was the first (and really the only) person to make a fuss about the elapsed time between Nos' posts and the number of pages Nos was processing in those periods of time. That kind of observation from someone who wasn't in the thread when the time was elapsing shows a fairly detail-oriented process of catching up and developing reads.

I didn't really pay much attention to that the first time around, but I took another look when you posted this and I noticed he got it wrong, though.

Nos' "readslist up to 10" post was at 1:04 pm my time (go back and look at 415 if you want conversion to a different time zone, won't change the rest of my point).

His vote switch to kraska in 419 was at 1:33 pm my time, 30 minutes later.

His "a lot has happened since then" 423 was at 1:46 pm my time, another 13 minutes later.

The Chiaotzu post you're referring to:

@zach

an unfortunate happenstance
is kraska's recent post what causes you to look at my vote askance?

I swear askance was a vocab word
how the fuck am i such a nerd

@morph

that list was on page ten
a lot has happened since then

I'm taking another break because this game is ridiculously hard to read.
I'd like to point out the last line here before I do. Did you seriously catch up from page 10 until the end in 15 minutes? Then wtf am I doing wrong?

Current townreads: morph-Oil-warthogs-kraska-Alisae
Current scumreads: Nosferatu

a lot has happened in the 15 minutes I used to catch up 16 pages. That's like 1 minute per page. Just no

takes the 15 minutes between 419 and 423 and uses it to imply that Nos caught up during that time, when actually he presumably did so in the time between 415 and 419, which was 30 minutes. Also, the amount Nos would have had to caught up from 10 to 17 (which is acknowledged by Chiaotzu in his second line) is 7 pages, not 16 pages (which Chiaotzu then says in the last line). 7 pages in 30 minutes is far more reasonable sounding than 16 in 15.

So I don't see detail-oriented, because multiple details - the time span and the number of pages - are wrong and used to misrep. At best, it's a factual mistake and exaggeration from town!Chiaotzu, but I could see it easily as a non-indicative "detail" that scum!Chiaotzu decided to make noise about to justify a vote. I certainly don't see anything here that makes me think he's town, and even if he got the details right, I wouldn't townread Chiaotzu specifically for this unless I saw a scum!Nos flip.

to give an update on my reads, I like {Alisae, Bins, WWF} all as top town. {Nos, Wisdom, Va-11 Hall-A, implosion, Oil Tycoons} are also townreads but they're the kind of townreads I'd start to take a harder look at later in the game if I'm seeing a bunch of flips I didn't expect and it's clear something is not right in my read of the gamestate. {dreal, Chaiotzu, kraska, morph} is where I'd lynch if I had to choose right now.

Thanks. I'm going to go back through this in a while and see if this is a good fit for how things played out and if I agree with your conclusions.

[morph the cat]

not that i sincerely am scumreading for that thing or anything

Is this ceph?

[morph the cat]

I (ffery) am scumreading him. Though when I went through his iso this morning there was more meat to it than I remembered from reading in context. The trajectory on his vote gives me hives.

Walk me through the trajectory you're itching from

Pretend I posted the above

There's an obvious reason why a player will wait on giving (or backing up) a read and I think most experienced players would recognize the signs. And I think GuiltyLion is plenty experienced enough.

So are you.

That's all I'm going to say.

[morph the cat]

We don't know this player list well enough to trust that there won't be a lolhammer at L-1.

We plan to claim at L-2.

Take that under advisement.

[morph the cat]

We're still townreading alisae. If anything the read is stronger.

[morph the cat]

We're still townreading alisae. If anything the read is stronger.

what do you think of zachdunn and wisdom at this point?

Not scumreading them.

Lack of a stake in the ground translates to me feeling at sea right now. Wisdom is the only one of those that's under our arbitrary line and we don't feel like voting him right now.

[morph the cat]

uuhhhh

ok

I feel wrong voting ffery
is this how it works on the newbies

Come on.

You were there.

The newbies never even considered voting me.

Whatever this situation is, it's not a parallel.

[morph the cat]

Implosion, you are one of the last people in this player list I expected to get involved in this chucklefuckery.

Overall I'm incredulous at some of the absurdities people have pulled out of my posts to call scummy. Wisdom didn't surprise me because I've seen him go on for hours at a time calling each new post scummy without so much as a moments reflection, a la Perpetual Mylo day 1. The only oddity to me about him is why he's done it to so FEW posts this time.

This game day has been a visit to a different planet. You can't all be scum.

The stuff that's bothering me most right now:

- Implosion's whatever the fuck that is above this post
- Bins' trajectory, which is custom made for OMG I WAS JUST TOO PARANOID OF FFERY"S SCARY SCUM GAME when we flip.
- GuiltyLion's amazing attempt to dismantle my reasons for assuming Drealz hype about his catch up post, when the point of my calling Drealz out was that he'd left me with the impression that the catch up post was incoming at any moment, not a day away.

Really, the only person on my wagon (in vote or in spirit) I have any conviction must be town in alisae. If I'm wrong about that, this really is some other planet.

If you guys are town (and some of you HAVE to be, sadly), pull up your damn socks.

[morph the cat]

Oh and this. Tammy's been pretty obviously town so I'm not scumreading this, but I've had just about enough of Ceph standing on the sidelines encouraging this crap while keeping his hands clean of actually scumreading us.

not that i sincerely am scumreading for that thing or anything

[morph the cat]

Nosferatu Meta

This is not a typical ffery meta dive report. I usually focus heavily on textual body language, and that's impossible to do with the posting restriction.

Large Normal 203: viewtopic.php?t=71848&f=55&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

Role was

mafia rolestopper

. Claimed a n0 cop guilty on Whymafia in his first day 1 post. Came off confident sounding and sarcastic at times in his posts. Was NKed by the town weak vigilante on the last night. It's hard to read textual body language with the posting restriction, but he looks more pissy and disgruntled in our game than in this one. Did a fair bit of moving votes around in the game, mostly in a followy-looking way.

Mini 1924 viewtopic.php?t=72430&f=54&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

Role was

Vanilla Town

. Fairly soon after his first serious vote came an ISO case (on 5 posts) in post 303. Confidence comes through in his posts here, too. Quickly moves on to another vote, and another. This is anything but sticky-voting, but it doesn't look as followy as the game above.

Mini 1891 viewtopic.php?t=70945&f=54&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

Role was

Town Odd Night Cop

Another game where he comes off really confident sounding from the start. Moves his vote around. I don't see anything particularly tunnelly looking in the early game.

This post amuses me; viewtopic.php?p=8970987#p8970987

His play in this game was nuanced and deep and I'm sad now that he has a posting restriction that will hamper that flow if he's town here.

Large Normal 199 viewtopic.php?t=69654&f=55&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

Role was

Mafia Motion Detector

. This iso looks shallow compared to his town isos. This seems to be one of the defining aspects of his scum game - it's not as analytical and his reasonings are super shallow compared to his town games.

I feel like I've gotten enough out of 4 games to have a general feel for some of the differences in his town and scum approaches. In this game, despite the posting restriction, I'm seeing enough depth in his reasoning (even though I think he's wrong about kraska) that I don't think this is his scum game. The posting restriction would give him massive excuse for not going into depth.

I tried reading this post like a bunch of times
maybe because I'm just super tired right now
but I have no idea what you are trying to accomplish with this.

I hope to accomplish 2 things. Share my conclusions from going through his posts in the 4 games (which are mostly in the last paragraph), and put out the data that went into those conclusions so that someone who is better at meta analysis than me can show where I'm wrong if I'm wrong or can confirm that I'm on the right track. Someone who has experiential meta should be able to knock it down or agree with it, too.

I'll elaborate on the conclusions. Superficially, his posts in all four games have a lot of similarities. But, the analysis, when there at all, is comparatively shallow when he's scum. And his vote changes have more of a followy, go with the flow feel most of the time in his scum games. The chatty, humorous quality of his posts is a little higher when he's scum, mostly because there are fewer of the more analytical posts. He plays a fair number of games at once and he's played a good cross section of games with other players in this game. I kinda felt like I shouldn't need to do a meta dive here because I should have at least a couple players at a fairly strong townread whose reads of him I could depend on. Instead, what I found was disagreement about Nos from different players I'm townreading. Hence the meta dive.

The first real meta dive I've done since coming back from hiatus. It's not a habit I want to reacquire.

On a "how would his scum behavior look different in this game" basis, I think he would have voted me after the momentum shifted in my direction.

The reason the strength of my townread of Implosion took a minor hit when I did the meta dive was because he's been a fairly analytical player in the games I've played with him though I don't remember him being a meta-based player. More along the lines of meta-informed, which is where I am on the meta-bro -- no-meta continuum. My conclusions on Nos whether they are right or wrong, are pretty easy to form from a cursory meta dive, and having even one completed game with him would be pretty informative.

His reaction last night to my squint is a major hit on my read.

[morph the cat]

Ugh. I'm walling. I guess it comes with a year of writing/editing irl.

I'll be scarce this weekend. Cabd should be around today, and I should be able to keep up even if I don't have a lot of time to post.

I see the offer to consensus-vote on a scum read. I'm not sure where we want to vote, though GL and and now implosion and maybe Bins are where my suspicions are highest right now.

That's too many people who are on my wagon or moving in that direction though, and I worry that I'm scumreading reactively.

[morph the cat]

Implosion, you are one of the last people in this player list I expected to get involved in this chucklefuckery.

Overall I'm incredulous at some of the absurdities people have pulled out of my posts to call scummy. Wisdom didn't surprise me because I've seen him go on for hours at a time calling each new post scummy without so much as a moments reflection, a la Perpetual Mylo day 1. The only oddity to me about him is why he's done it to so FEW posts this time.

This game day has been a visit to a different planet. You can't all be scum.

The stuff that's bothering me most right now:

- Implosion's whatever the fuck that is above this post
- Bins' trajectory, which is custom made for OMG I WAS JUST TOO PARANOID OF FFERY"S SCARY SCUM GAME when we flip.
- GuiltyLion's amazing attempt to dismantle my reasons for assuming Drealz hype about his catch up post, when the point of my calling Drealz out was that he'd left me with the impression that the catch up post was incoming at any moment, not a day away.

Really, the only person on my wagon (in vote or in spirit) I have any conviction must be town in alisae. If I'm wrong about that, this really is some other planet.

If you guys are town (and some of you HAVE to be, sadly), pull up your damn socks.

Cool.

If you are town can you like actually respond to it instead of completely ignoring it because yelling "wtf" at me isn't actually assuaging anything and i am really conflicted about you right now. I still think the way you acted towards kraska is unlikely from scum and there have been other vague townvibes here and there but i still can't make sense of your post toward me. And your post toward me is like, the first thing in this game that has set off any alarm bells whatsoever since zachdunn's early play. And your response amounts to "fuck you" which is not encouraging.

I think you might have missed this at the bottom of my reply to alisae

The reason the strength of my townread of Implosion took a minor hit when I did the meta dive was because he's been a fairly analytical player in the games I've played with him though I don't remember him being a heavily meta-based player. More along the lines of meta-informed, which is about where I am on the meta-bro -- no-meta continuum. My conclusions on Nos whether they are right or wrong, are pretty easy to form from a cursory meta dive, and having even one completed game with him should be pretty informative.

His reaction last night to my squint is a major hit on my read.

I'm reluctant to do a point-by-point reply to you because I fully expect Wisdom to call it "scum caught for the wrong reasons" and I'm sick and tired of seeing my posts either misinterpreted or not interpreted at all.

But, I'll do it anyway, either tonight or tomorrow once I've finished setting up my place for hosting a frail elderly person (my grandmother) for the next couple weeks.

[morph the cat]

Oh and this. Tammy's been pretty obviously town so I'm not scumreading this, but I've had just about enough of Ceph standing on the sidelines encouraging this crap while keeping his hands clean of actually scumreading us.

not that i sincerely am scumreading for that thing or anything

i am suspicious of you. are you happy?

I'm pissed off for different reasons.

I'm not sure if it's unreasonable to expect people who have played a lot of games with me to read me right this time, given the elapsed time since those last games, and whatever the time off has done to my playstyle.

After my first game back, I thought the difference wasn't that great.

[morph the cat]

Bins' trajectory, which is custom made for OMG I WAS JUST TOO PARANOID OF FFERY"S SCARY SCUM GAME when we flip.

this isn't at all what i'm saying?

you look like scum, i'm not saying you look like town and i'm just going to vote you because I think you're town but there's a chance

These are the posts I'm referring to.

I think ffery is scum actually
I see them being scum here tho it's only gut.

they've been pinging my gut all game and i'm still trying to sort them

I really don't wnt to be wrong here

uuhhhh

ok

I feel wrong voting ffery
is this how it works on the newbies

This is what I'm talking about. The equivocation and what looks like a set up of an "out" when I flip, if you are part of getting me lynched.

I understand paranoia. I'm often a flaming pool of paranoia about at least one or two players in mafia games, and this game has turned it up to maximum. And if you're town, then an actual gut-scum read isn't beyond the realm of reasonable play.

But even mentioning "is this how it works on the newbies?" suggests something else is going on. None of the newbies suspected me. The only player who even once paired me with their scumread (a player who wasn't scum) has been playing here for at least a year. So how is this in any way comparable to that game? And what does your gut-scum read have to do with the newbies of that game NOT scumreading me?

[morph the cat]

There are a couple of recent things from morph that concern me.
One is this:

Unvote:

Now I'm feeling a little squinty-eyed about Implosion being on this wagon with us, since he played a game with Town Nos.

One, I had just recently talked about how I'm not sure about how to read Nos. Which she might have missed but seems like a strange thing to ignore when saying this.

As I said in my post to Alisae whether I'm right about it or not, I felt that there are some fairly discernible differences in his town play vs his scum play in those 4 games. I'm happy for someone who knows him better to set me straight, if I'm wrong.. And if I'm wrong, then your difficulties reading him will be pretty vindicated, actually.

What are your difficulties in reading him?

Two, this feels really indirect and unclear for what I know of ffery. It sounds like vague suspicion thrown to see if anything will stick, rather than an attempt to either state a read or push the game forward.

It was a vague suspicion, but I felt and still feel it needed to be here in the thread where you could see and react to it. Like I mentioned in my previous post, my paranoia is on overdrive right now. It's extremely rare for me to stir up this much in the way of scumreads when I'm town, and maybe I just don't know how town is supposed to act when there's so much suspicion swirling around them. I feel pretty sure that not all of this crap is coming from town and I'm looking for where the scum possibilities are.

Whether you've seen me do it in games or not, I make comments like this frequently because they generate reactions and I get reads from the reactions.

Three, I just don't see the reasoning for why this should make her suspicious towards me - I played a game with town Nos and pushed him, therefore I might be scum pushing him here? First off I haven't even pushed Nos here; my vote is basically dangling there right now as a "nowhere really better to go" vote. I've played with nos-town so I should know his meta, and his meta looks like this game so I shouldn't be voting him? That doesn't really make sense either. It just doesn't really make sense as a conclusion from seeing that. Like, having played a game with someone doesn't equate to being confident in understanding their meta, especially since I was scum in that game and so wasn't actually trying to sort nos. I'm not sure if town-ffery looks at the nos wagon and nos's meta dive, and my involvement in the wagon, and conclude that tossing suspicion my way is appropriate. I'm doubly unsure that that suspicion would manifest as sort of half-pressuringly almost-but-not-really fossing me.

The suspicion is entirely wrapped up around getting a strong impression of his alignment from READING some games. You PLAYED a game. Experiential meta is so much better than reading cold games, so it seemed odd that you came away from playing a game with him, but find him hard to read.

This is like, slightly a meta read but mostly it isn't. I'm going to sleep on it and likely join the wagon tomorrow since i think i might just be misinterpreting that post because it really doesn't make sense to me. Also still trying to figure out their reaction to the votes which my gut says might be scummy.

What does slightly a meta read but mostly it isn't mean? I thought this paragraph is nonsensical when I read it the first time, and I still don't know what you mean by it.

[morph the cat]

and fwiw, 897 gives me town vibes tonally.

i think that i disagree with this a lot

I think I agree with you, but the fact that Cabd isn't trying to be a shining paragon of town here is actually kind of AI in a fucked up I-still-have-ptsd-from-xenologue sort of way. I don't think scum-him takes the line of "what the actual fuck is wrong with all of you" here.

alisae for scum btw

You would probably be better served to just pretend Alisae isn't playing in this game and just do analysis from there

not trying to be rude, but, why are you even in the thread at this point?

Because I told fery I'd dance with her. It just turned out that I'd felt like shit that day.

That was ffery you dummy.