Mini 1928 - Villain Mafia - GAME OVER

[Steel]

Well met! Confirming.

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prodge

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tomorrow

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Tomorrow morning when I wake.

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As you will. Tis 2:40 am, I shall read till dawn.

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Methinks I can see the case against fuzzy already.

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Fuzzy motions to serious lynch on an rvs wagon and is called on it, tis a very clear obvious end of rvs to my mind.

Firebringer and raya respond it.

Carcalilly misses it. I understand not TTH's apparent deflection to raya. Treblesome ignores it but mayhap for he is new?

Radical rat votes carcalilly on potentially giving a free pass to scum TTH to claim vig and shoot fuzzy, but e'en ignoring the faulty logic tis perhaps assuming TTH scum and fuzzy town?

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Nay treblesome be extremely experienced. Also intentionally confusing people, for what purpose? The missing of the rvs end is not something I should expect from any half competent, methinks, so for one reason or another tis an intended move.

Fuzzy doubles down. How may he miss the nuance of rvs this much, half the game talking silly and he doesn't feel it?

Carcalilly dumbtelling if not joking to my mind.

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Why did firebringer seem to forget about fuzzy when he scumread his reaction?

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TTH has good logic on how radical rat doesn't make sense but does not go so far into scum motivation. The implication is radical rat was stretching and not giving adequate thought or due diligence for it?

Tramp entrance pretty bad, madvillain's nonsensical unless a joke. Treblesome still not being serious when at least 4 things with substance are happening is pretty offbeat. Firebringer and others joke too but also have at least some serious posts.

Antitown has probably best entrance yet and gets voted for it. Treblesome joining on fuzzy when asked to finally be serious would be okay but seems somewhat a forced move, and his stance incredibly vague too based just on feel.

Radical rat has really early PoE justification for joining where I don't understand his taking the mason claims at face value in a game where vengeful and vigilante claims were already thrown around like nothing. However the little narrowing down process there and arriving at raya or fuzzy in a sort of deduction looks like town.

Fuzzy doubling down on firebringer being a threat is at least consistent, same with his view thinking his lynch goes through fast fits as he reacted to the firebringer wagon. Maybe 2013 people did just lynch on rvs wagons or 2 days in. Response to consider the scum on his wagon and ask relevant questions is okay. Still do not see why he pushed the firebringer anti town or policy angle though if he did just scumread him though, and he didn't really look at that wagon's composition and judge votes like he did for his own.

Fitz scumread on carcalilly may be after the fact with asking who pony is then voting, though 5 minutes is somewhat a narrow window it was pretty simple.

Carcalilly townreads fuzzy for something indescribable I guess. TTH at least has some justification though I'm not sure the vengeful point holds. Some wacky stuff going on too, maybe an injoke or something, carcalilly and treblesome seem to know one another.

[Steel]

How comes everyone refers to treblesome as rc, has apricity not said anything yet?

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VOTE: fuzzy

A lot of people scumreading this but using pretexts to vote elsewhere.
I believe fuzzy as scum still thought both firebringer and his own wagon would go to lynch fast but his push does not look like a scumread. 36 how can someone calling for their death even be a trap apart from jester?

If you think firebringer can be town why not just ask him not to be crazy?

[Steel]

Steel is town

Tis true but where do you get any of your reads?

Wherefore do you townread fuzzy, especially?

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Treblesome I do not see the scum motivation from firebringer doing that analysis, when he was not using it to push or scumread you.

Furthermore I would ask for you to vote realistic wagons, and not do your own thing completely oblivious to what everyone else is doing.

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If there are masons methinks they would not be so foolish as to claim day 1 in rvs, and if there are some it would not be those who claimed.

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1) the fake claims mean nothing As far as alignment for me.
2) you are just outright believing it which I think scum would naturally do more likely.

He is scum for outright believing in his own mason claim? Would he not know the truth already?

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Mayhap I am missing some context from not being present and only rereading, however.

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Why shouldn't he not take my scumread on him seriously when he knows that he can get the rest of the game to not take it seriously either?

How?

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Steel
the chance of Fire being a Jester is almost zero. I been here a while have not seen a jester used yet. Jesters are a role nobody uses . It is very very very unlikely it would be used here. I been in a few games where a player tried to kill themselves for no good reason.... Either they got bored of the game or they thought it would be funny etc. I thought that was the case . looking back I misread the whole situation badly. if you think I am scum than fine. I respect your decision though you are wrong.
Your post about Anti having the best entrance makes me scratch my head, Anti town enterence was meh at best. He basically said that bc there is talk about me I should be wagoned. , How was this a good entrance on any level. So far he has done zero . Why are you defending Anti when there is no need to, I am confused

Yeah, I have since seen the post about jesters not being allowed in non bastard games.

Can you tell me how you think firebringer would want to have himself lynched as a trap though? The closest scum motivation I could think of, would be if it was a bluff to get towncred, nothing else really comes to mind.

As for antitown, people were fluffing and messing around and things were stalling there, and he comes in and says what I thought reading and puts the game back on focus. The other entrances were very forgettable.

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So your contention is that firebringer is intentionally ignoring your scumread on him because he believes no one would ever listen to you?

However if I understand it, he said you generally read him correctly in the long term and believes you are merely pretending to attack him to get a reaction. I can see him being somewhat nonchalant if that's how he sees it.

In fact if he does believe you are just poking at him to get a reaction, methinks he would do better to exploit that and give the reaction he believes you are looking for and not ignore you.

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If not for that association you scumread fuzzy though, right?

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Does anyone want to fucking play the game?

How can you have this issue when you spent most of the early game screwing around?

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Unless you are going to say vocal patterns was all just a reaction test.

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I want to hear more from tramp right now, reads but also a serious confirm or deny on the mason stuff.

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Tramp if fuzzy is your number one scumread why vote fire?

Also, I don't think fuzzy fits with firebringer with his push to lynch him that early and shade him in rvs. They didn't really have a fight it was more one way fuzzy trying to lynch fire.

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The only vote on firebringer I can really understand is treblesomes.

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I don't like early associations but there could be something to tramp saying fuzzy is his number one scumread and voting firebringer.

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If it's true it should get backed up by either tramp or villain.

Can we lynch fuzzy now?

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I can definitely see that, though it doesn't quite fit with fuzzy through raya's interaction with him earlier.

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Tramp as scum likely would not claim masonizer I believe. As a role that should be easily provable and also heavily expected to be killed, fakeclaiming that would look very bad for his survival in the long term.

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I am going to be away for the next couple of days and deadline is looming so we absolutely have to start consolidating now.

I would prefer fuzzylogic still but I can accept following treblesome and TTH on this as an alternative.

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Declaring V/LA Until Monday

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Prodge, catching up today

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Is there a backup mod for this game?

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So is tramp masonizer and in a timed reveal neighbourhood or was the former their way of claiming the latter?

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In truth I wish I had not signed up for role madness, having to judge all these mechanics instead of simple scumhunting is rather annoying.

I think the neighborhood should be left to settle for now, at least until day 2. Tramp if not fakeclaiming should be then confirmed town and the neighborhood easier to judge.

If I ignore tramp's claim he's the scummiest person in the hood but the claim doesn't make sense for scum as far I know unless there is some way to fake masonizer.

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It's still somewhat a red flag for me that fuzzylogic is impossible to lynch but the townreads on him are sort of just feels based and not strong enough to warrant people sheeping, maybe it is approaching tunneling now but I do feel if he was town he would be mislynched if that makes sense. I'll examine the others in more detail but I don't feel any of the other pushes were done with really much conviction behind them. To clarify, the stances themselves aren't bad and scum are unlikely to directly defend anyways I believe, but where things like that might usually be ignored here they are major forces influencing the wagons.

Regarding scorpious he very likely does have that shot he claimed regardless of alignment, but forcing him to use it as specified doesn't work to my mind. Either we don't lynch him today and leave the choice up to him, though we may suggest it, or we lynch him now and don't let him take any shot. I highly doubt if he's scum he would shoot a partner even if we forced him to, more likely he lie and would aim for town then eat the mislynch days later to my mind, and that's in the best case scenario where we do choose scum to force him onto. If it's a town target and he shoots it that tells us nothing about him beyond the role, and at least if he chooses a shot that's him committing to something and we can judge that instead of a forced move.

Although that assumes scum vig is a plausible role, in a normal game I think it usually has to be town for balance but the setup nature is strange again here. Can I get multiple quotes on percent likelyhood of scum vigilante in a game? If I were to judge him completely removed of claim I would easily lynch him here 2nd to fuzzy, I haven't seen any scumhunting from him since replacing and if anything he seems to have drifted since the pressure was let off him for his claim. At least snarky has attested to meta for his play here being null.

On another note I think in a game as this with the claimed neighborhood late reveal and potential masoniser it may in fact be preferable to avoid having extra kills via vig or vengeful if given the option, as a long term grinding out days approach might work better with those mechanics.

[Steel]

It seems the case against fitz is his willingness to ignore the neighborhood as a reason to leave them be, but as he isn't pushing there either I don't see how it's all that scum motivated. If he were attempting to lynch someone in the neighborhood then there would be a lot more to look into, but I believe he's just saying he wouldn't drop a scumread if it came up in future based solely on mechanics. I even agree with that sentiment.

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Can I get multiple quotes on percent likelyhood of scum vigilante in a game?

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In these types of games I mean. TTH gives the impression that scum vigilante is too minor a chance to be concerned with, would other people who play these theme games a lot back that up?

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You know, this is probably stupid but I'm wondering if no lynch is even that bad if it comes to that with the neighborhood mechanic and trying out the masoniser and delayed vig claims.

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VOTE: Scorpious

I didn't want to detract from the fuzzy wagon but scorpious having left his predecessors vote there this entire time too with no comment somewhat irked me.

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VOTE: fuzzylogic

Scorpious it seems might have just stopped playing altogether, which makes his total non involvement today not quite so bad in hindsight.

3 more votes to lynch on this. Lady masoniser claim should by and large be very easy to verify if true, unlike for example the scorpious one.

[Steel]

FOS:

TTH for pushing fitz for his views about not wanting to give the neighborhood a free pass but then pushing lady herself.

Unless I'm misinterpreting some nuance to it, I don't see her views meshing with what she said in the latter part of 642.

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Well I guess I might be dense, but I came away from that thinking the earlier mason claims were what was retracted and not the neighborhood mechanic.

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VOTE: Scorpious l-1

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Unless more people show up no other lynch is even viable.

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I think I prefer fuzzy and to let scorpious shoot. I'm not sure scorpious third party would be creative enough to come up with that claim, and the alternative being true seems very weak for SK to my mind.

If I come back it's just l-2 though.

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VOTE: fuzzy l-2

I should really be doing other things today, but I'll try to check in periodically and go back to scorpious if it's necessary before deadline.

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I'm dumb for not having thought of this before, but we should definitely have approached the scorpious claim differently. Given a round to get either counterclaimed or not, and if not then somewhat trusted.

If I think about it now, in a role madness type of game at least one vig for town sounds more likely than not. On the other hand if he was countered and 2 claims were to happen that would more suggest something like third party.

[Steel]

Will attend to this later today.

[Steel]

I would have a much easier time with this if full role pms were posted on flips.

With serial killer and survivor I assume the case on scorpious is he's scum with a delayed kill? I fail to see how that could have triggered with 2 kills already taken place however, as either it would mean even more third parties or that scum did 2 killing actions in one night? Unless there's also a town vigilante, but in which case they really should have counterclaimed by now.

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I feel as though given the events of yesterday someone should really have been on either lady or treblesome however.

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If I were to judge purely via reads and ignore all the role stuff I think I'd lynch madvillain here, he strikes me as particularly awful today and I say this as someone who didn't want to lynch them yesterday. He appears to post to sound conflicted but say essentially nothing, his complaining about the nightkill is pretty awful and I don't even know how to describe what he's doing around scorpious and softing something. Day 1 he at least gave me the impression he was game solving at points.

Regarding scorpious I have to see his justification for shooting treblesome out of all players and why he scumread there there the most. Treblesomes reaction on the other hand is rather town, if he were scum caught I'm not sure he would take being vigged quite so personally, furthermore with his death made inevitable I don't see how scorpious being lynched over anyone compared to anyone else would particularly matter.

[Steel]

VOTE: madvillain

Have only read the VCs so far but I forgot to do this last time.

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Unfortunately I don't have the time for this after all, but my preferences currently are madvillain > scorpious > fitz, fitz day 1 was alright by me and claim I believe can be tested easily.

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So is this a guilty or not?
What does the suicidal modifier do on that flip?

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VOTE: Carcalilly

I don't think scum TTH would risk her own life to lynch a player like carcalilly if she's town.

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@Treblesome is TTH a good enough player to on-the-fly see a lightning rod claim then come up with a plan to use that to claim guilty on someone and potentially use that as later justification? I would put something like that past 95% of players.

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Scorpious did you ever really explain your treblesome shot? He seemed pretty town then for bothering to meta firebringer so hard and in the least one of the more active players so I don't understand him being the shot of all players. Given since then he's been contributing to the game and putting effort in despite his own death being guaranteed he's pretty much my strongest townread now.

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I kind of want to ignore all the setup garbage and wifom and lynch madvillains on read.

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Treblesome how are both scorpious and carcalilly lockscum and I'm somehow below them in your 1228 reads?

I strongly believe you're town but when you're misreading me and you're meta was apparently wrong on firebringer I have to question your judgment.

If I understand it, you believe scorpious should be lynched over carcalilly today even though both are scum because you think he'll never be lynched with antitown townreading him?

[Steel]

RR my inactivity recently is sitewide, you could verify that if you so desire.

In truth it's a little concerning pretty much everyone is silently dropping me in their reads in a way I can't engage with. Madvillains did so right after I expressed my scumread of her and is probably scum anyways but coming from treble and RR who are likely town it's a bit of a worry.

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So, if TTH is town cop with a true innocent on antitown and my treblesome and radical rat reads are correct it literally has to be madvillains, carcalilly and scorpious.

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VOTE: scorpious l-1

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You TTH madvillains and me.

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You've been calling for his lynch all game but you're complaining when he's hammered?

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I forgot about radical rat's vote but I find it surprising you even mind he's hammered.

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He's flipping scum.

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Note how given the role claims scum should be confirmed from both his, madvillains and carcalilly's viewpoints but they act like it's day 1.

If you aren't picking out one claim as false the game is literally narrowed down into 3 people from this pool.

Doctor and backup doctor claims confirm each other and TTH cop with an inno is necessary for the setup to not be incredibly scum sided.

Madvillains appealing to me speaks to playing towards tomorrow rather than focusing on today which hints at knowing scorpious is red, that today is already a forgone conclusion and the game will continue on.

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The classic tell is akin to LYLO where scum gets into a 1v1, but instead of realizing that would make the other person scum from their perspective they continue to play to both sides and profess no idea as to what's going on.

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Granted I suppose my confidence is too high as well and suggests I know he's flipping scum but I firmly believe a town scorpious would have been lynched day 1 or 2 to begin with.

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Prodge on coffee shop wifi on phone cutting out going to have time Sunday or Monday latest

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Tis unfortunate I could not commit fully to this game in the later stages, especially when the game didn't end when I thought it would. My apologies.

Good game and well met, fellows.

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My mistake was not lynching scorpious day 1. I knew he was vigilante and I also knew he would probably shoot treblesome based on his reads, but it somehow did not register for me during that day. If he could not take that shot things would have been somewhat less stressful.

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I wonder how the game would have looked if it continued and I had more time to invest into it.

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The only mislynch that was somewhat bad was havingfitz in my opinion. Fuzzylogic was not full town and scorpious lynch I cannot really fault.

Tis funny how you can scumread 2 out 3 scum but just the one misread is what hurts you as in radical rat's situation. Normally that would be quite respectable.

[Steel]

Twas somewhat amusing when I scumhammered scorpious thinking the game would end and then it continued.