Mini 1937 ~ Girls ♥ Girls 2: Mini's Apartment ~ Endgame

[Kmd4390]

Hey guys!

CLAIM: HATED

also..
VOTE: Kmd4390

Not nice

Vote heartless

[Kmd4390]

Ginngie, what made you say you could see camn as scum?

I don't like prism's vote on Notice. I see it the opposite way of what prism sees. I don't see the scum benefit to basically putting a "vig me" post it note on your own back. It sounds more like town who saw a negative utility role PM and is just putting it out there. Prism's vote just looks like an attempt to jump on whatever they can and possibly a chance to get some more info about someone's role.

Vote Prism

Also within in game relations, not wanting to pick a fight and instead trying to put water under the bridge makes me feel that it's a town move as it pushes towards cohesiveness instead of being divisive

Or wanting to keep attention away...

[Kmd4390]

Outguess the mod works sometimes?

^this. I don't play Mod WIFOM.

Do we always assume a vig is in a mini theme?

I wouldn't assume that there isn't one. Just like when scum plan their kills around tracks/watches/protects and whatever else. It's not about assuming. It's about being prepared for the possibility and I'm pretty sure mastina as scum would think about the possibility of certain roles or types of roles before doing things.

Hi people!
Why am I already on people's lists of scum of I have not posted here yet?

Ew.

VOTE: Ginngie

Ew.

______________

Spiff, what do you think of ginngie's self vote other than not being "ok". Town? Scum? Not sure?

______________

V/LA until Saturday

. May or may not be able to check in a few times.

[Kmd4390]

Why do people purposefully take out quote links when quoting people

If this is at me, it's because I don't usually hit the "quote" button. I copy and paste and add the quote tags in manually.

is a vig killing someone because they're neg utility something you've seen actually happen? if so, link plz

Not off the top of my head, but it is basically ALWAYS discussed when someone claims negative utility so the perception that it could happen is enough that a lot of scum won't do it. Either way, I think it's much more likely that mastina claimed negative utility because mastina is negative utility than any kind of tinfoil theory that it benefits scum. If mastina is scum, the claim is probably because of something actually related to mastina's real role.

__________________

On Ginngie's self vote, I didn't like it at first but thought it may have been an emotional kind of thing which could come from either alignment. However, in the interaction with camn, ginngie comes off pretty calm and collected so I can only see it as a joke (doesn't come off that way at all) or a calculated attempt to accomplish something. I can't see what town would want to accomplish. tl;dr I still don't like the self vote.

Cards was literally an actual reads list with tiers and it's WAY too early to have that structured of a list

It really wasn't. Sure, you don't have much info yet at that stage of a game so any accuracy is probably difficult to come by, but it's

possible

to get a read on any given post. So having a tiered reads list is entirely possible as long as it comes with the understanding that things can and probably will change later.

As it stands it's obvious I'm trying to do my own thing and appealing to no one but my own play style.

This may be nitpicky, but that makes it sound like you're trying too hard to match your own meta...

Stop being silly... your command of English is excellent.

There is a context to actions.
In a different game.. I think a player like you, AS SCUM OR TOWN, consider self-voting because it shows emotion.. it shows lack of concern over votes, or otherwise expresses a towniness to players who will read into things on that level. It is manipulative, but that is not really the worst. You as town manipulating people into overcoming thier suspicions and thinking you are town is fine, and pro-town.

BUT HERE, I think you MUST know that we would see through that shit, because you are certainly aware of the experience level of this playerlist.
So, AS TOWN, I think you would realize that the risk of that kind of attempts at manipulation is more than in a game with a different playerlist.
But AS SCUM, maybe you are a little nervous that we are just gonna catch you.. so you go for it. The possible benefit is a little greater, and outweighs the risk.

That was my calculus.
Is it correct? Maybe. Maybe not.

Would I even be talking about it if you didn't keep bringing it up?
Probably not.
I liked your subsequent responses and I am over it.

Do I love parsing posts word by word?
Not really, it's boring af.

I can't tell if this is overthinking or spot on, but either way it feels genuine.

Would I even be talking about it if you didn't keep bringing it up?
Probably not.

You're a good noodle :3

This post following those two lines of camn's post, however, feels like an attempt to shake pressure after JUST saying that Ginngie doesn't mind votes. So I'm leaning towards camn's observation being spot on rather than overthinking.

Why do you think that mastina's 48 was the equivalent of putting a "vig me" post it note on her own bag? I mean, maybe I have a different approach to the game than you do, but I can't say that I'd think that "our role is negative utility if another role exists in the game but I don't currently think the chances of that are very high" is anywhere near a "this is going to fuck the game over, kill" it claim as something like camn's Hated claim would be.

Does this mean that you're townreading mastina and camn? How strong are your townreads on each of them?

The idea of a vig shooting negative utilities is nothing new. It seems unnecessarily risky for scum. It's just one dangerous trade off for I don't even know what benefit. I can only remember one time where scum fakeclaimed a negative utility and survived to endgame and that was in like 2009. Yes, I have townreads on both mastina and camn. The mastina one is still pretty weak because I haven't seen enough from that slot to have a confident read. The one on camn is a little stronger because I liked the exchange with Ginngie.

Already asked the same question Prism did, but I don't think that you actually answered all of his questions here.

What didn't I answer?

Why was Spiffeh so high - the only thing he did was the "predict the scum" thing and I don't understand why that looks town at all

You listed him as an angry face (scum read?) so I have to ask. Was the "predict the scum" thing scummy to you?

Ahsoka's entrance sucked. At that time she only had the one post where she wanted to know why people were scumreading her when she hadn't posted. But since then it just seems like she's having trouble getting her feet and she is the sort of player who has trouble getting her feet as scum so I don't like it.

Fully agree except that I'm not sure of the meta part. The post about scum reads was pretty bad though. I could probably vote on that alone.

Any questions for a drunk Prism who presumably is more sloppy as scum or more genuine as town now's your chance

This feels manipulative. Like someone who is more in control than they are letting on and trying to get people to town read them.

_________________

I don't get the spiff wagon. Anyone wanna explain?

_________________

I'm through page 10 but decided when I started that I'd stop at 3am. I'll finish this tomorrow.

[Kmd4390]

I don't remember why exactly but kmd gave me a negative impression, I think because the vote reasoning doesn't explain why thinking differently about an action is -scummy- as opposed to someone thinking differently. Also because I think it's vogue for scum to try and sound smart and take a side without really saying anything.

A softclaim is exactly the kind of thing I'd expect scum to jump all over if it came from town which I believe there's a good chance it did.

Going to shift to here for now:

VOTE: MaxwellPluckett

I can't figure out what prompted this vote.

Nope, I haven't. Just a hunch.

Oh...

I'm finally here!
First things first: As you may have surmised by now, Kmd was Anti's scumread. He cited the content of Post 115 as the reason for the scumread, referring to Kmd's Prism vote as a turd of a vote propped up by tells that haven't been relevant since the 00s. Anti has also said his scumread was slightly strengthened by Post 146, describing the style as "snipe-y" and the question to Spiffeh as a throwaway "faux-scumhunting" question.
I did not get the same scumread while reading the game myself, but I do not townread Kmd so I'm good with the vote being there.

What, scum don't jump on easy votes anymore? Because that was what Prism's issues with mastina looked like? And the spiff thing was because he seemed to be saying something without really taking a side on it and now that you mention it he never answered me.

I honestly think that we may be dealing with a Heartless-Spiffeh scumteam, wildcards KMD/Caryatid for the third slot...and a very, very strong lean towards said third being KMD.

And I legit.
Genuinely.
Think.

The scum are in a panic about Spiffeh being run up so early.
And them being powerless to stop it.

So your theory is that Heartless got worried about a scumbuddy being wagoned and decided to fix it by voting another scumbuddy? Why wouldn't Heartless, in that case, be pushing a counterwagon or something? Where do you read this "panic" in Heatless's posts?

Kmd4390's posting is off-putting. The KMD I know is a player who I easily synergize with. I instantly get what KMD is doing. I instantly get where KMD is coming from. I know what KMD is doing, and I almost always agree with it. I might not have a carbon copy of KMD's reads, but I will have the same basis as KMD for my reads and yet here KMD is just off in a world which is entirely alien to me.

You usually aren't in the games where I have trouble keeping up. My first few posts were rushed and then I was at work and now I'm in catch up mode. I usually feel the same about your posting by the way and don't see it here. Like even when you go "town, town, scum, town, scum" to a bunch of posts I'm usually nodding and going "yeah that makes sense". Your reads in the same post I'm quoting here don't give me that impression. You aren't really giving reasons for some of these reads. You're basically explaining why there isn't a reason and counting that explanation as your reason. And then you give all of these adjectives and repetition and everything to show just how confident in the read you are. I just don't get where this is coming from. Examples are your reads on Imperium, Prism, Ahsoka (you went from vaguely getting the scum reads to not getting why anyone could scum read Ahsoka pretty quickly by the way), and spiff. So yeah, you're right that we don't have our usual synergy here, but I don't think it's 100% me and even what is can partially be explained by my not being able to keep up.

RVS vote. Not really into it, but it became a nice little wagon, we didn't want to break it.

What is nice about the wagon? And what is your read on Spiff?

"The paragon of mafiascum is lynchbait"

>_>

<_<

Is that really what story you want too sell?

I can see him getting the lynch bait label to be honest.

_____________

Through 15

[Kmd4390]

Ok, let's see if I can bang this all out in one night.

Yeah that was a pretty good post from kmd. I think you're offtrack on Ginngie, but this is my 3rd rodeo of hers so I'm used to it.

I actually don't like this. Without reasons why you like it, it seems like you either went "oh a lot of words" or "the guy who hasn't been here posted so it's good" and it comes off as trying to say what you think a general consensus would be rather than a genuine thought.

As far as me being drunk the night of my birthday, sorry but I don't play it up and pretend to forget that a backspace key exists

like other people.

You're right-I was well in control; but it really doesn't matter how much I've had, it's a true statement. I wasn't playing up my drunkenness, only stating that it wasn't like my play was going to tighten up. It's an invitation to interact, not to townread me. Decide for yourself how control I was in then.

I don't know you aside from this game and the bolded is why it stood out. People WILL do that.

Can you explain the desire to lynch Spiffeh? I still see basically no real reason behind it. Closest I've seen is his lack of reads, but I don't see much reason to think there's this immediate, AI need for that.

This is where I am on the Spiff wagon. People act like it's the obv lynch and definitely a scum lynch, but I don't get why.

I don't like the.. like fake "I have something to do.. but I am waiting for CERTAIN CONDITIONS" thing.
What is that? And then the conditions... it's nothing game-related, but just 'lemme hear from Tammy and TTH'?

Its more like- Im gonna lurk like crazy, and hopefully soft some nonsense so I can get away with it for a while.

Do you think he'd keep it up as scum even after being wagoned for it?

kmd's long post is super-null. It's going back to early game stuff to discuss set-up spec, it doesn't really progress the game, then it throws shade at Prism for being drunk (which is like, the lowest blow, what's wrong with drunkposting yo?). The only good part to us is critiquing Spiffeh-wagon but frankly everyone should be doing it so it's an easy target. No moving forward with reads here.

-It's early game stuff because I haven't read later stuff yet.
-My issue wasn't with Prism being drunk (seriously, wtf). It was Prism saying (paraphrased) "Hey I'm drunk so talk to me because I'll be sloppy as scum or genuine as town". It feels like an attempt to get people to talk and get town reads because they talked to "genuine town drunk Prism".

ok... has it ever occurred to you that the reason you haven't ever actually SEEN it is bc it's not actually based on anything real?

in md ppl talk about how vigs should shoot lurkers but the overwhelming majority of the time in practice, vigs shoot their scumreads (and why wouldn't they? you draw vig rarely what's the fun in just taking a flamethrower to lurkers?)

but ok that's kind of tangential to the point. you think it was THAT tinfoil that you think only scum would question mastina's claim?

i don't (and in fact i think the opposite)

I actually agree with you about MD vs in practice. But I feel like if someone said in a scum PT "Hey guys I'm gonna say I'm negative utility but not actually claim", there are a lot of people who would respond with "But aren't you worried about being a vig kill?' Or hell, even a policy lynch which I don't recall seeing ever happening in a game. The perception that something could happen can be enough of a reason for scum not to do something to trigger it. What do you think the scum benefit is to do what mastina did?

lmao this is such a great example of looking into a puddle and finding Atlantis

lmao this is such a great example of being unnecessarily dismissive.

___________________

Hitting submit before I reach prod range. Not done for the night yet.

[Kmd4390]

Son of a...

I closed the wrong tab and lost my post. The real meat of it was just that I took Spiff's side of him vs Ginngie. Pocketing Mastina makes sense because of the links he provided and from my own point of view, my personal experience with mastina in WWF mafia where I was scum and mastina had me as such a strong town read that I constantly was referred to as a "mason buddy". I also didn't like Ginngie going all "I'm confirmed town" based on the reads of two unflipped players.

My eyes need a break. I'm on Page 24.

[Kmd4390]

It's not quite pointless; it's showing how much of an absolute scumfuck Spiffeh is with his stances and how much Ginngie bleeds town so.

I know you said before that Spiff is a read you can't really explain, but can you explain what you saw in their exchange that gave you that impression? Because I had the opposite view from reading that.

Seriously anyone thinking spiffeh is lynchbait needs serious reevaluations of life.

It's been a while since I've played with him but I remember two games. One, he was pretty good. The other, he just shit posted. (Pretty sure he was town in both if I'm not mistaken).

no... it really wasn't...

and the fact that no one else voted mastina for it kind of proves it wasn't

Easy to jump on and easy to lynch are two different things. It's easy to go "OMG SOFTCLAIM SCUM!", but you're right, good luck lynching on that basis.

Nacho I might be the only person on mafiascum who doesn't have a hydra with you!

I don't. But I've only ever hydra'd with two people.

______________________

Man this thread turned into a shit post fest fast.

except kmd is the grown up here.

so kmd is the boring one?

yup

Story of my life

____________________

So I have a friend at another site who has this belief in this 1 in 3 thing, in which scum when positing a group of three names always lists one of their partners. I don't necessarily believe in the 1 in 3 thing, but it will be interesting to see if any of the people who listed three people who might be scum at the beginning will be scum.

does that make sense?

Just an end game thought really.

I've definitely heard this a ton of times and...it depends on the person really. It's one of those things like "scum don't interact with each other" yet I played a game where I was scum and one of my buddies ONLY talked to me and our other buddy.

I think that it was a fairly cookie cutter as you can see from all these little squares. His vote in his second post seemed like "well I disagree with you so here is a vote".

I think if there's a scum doctor flip at any point then that's going to look bad for him.

I like how the little cookie cutter shapes grew eyes at one point and started looking like people.

The colours of peoples names on this exercise were mostly indicative of "which is the sharpest crayon I noticed first" but I initially made his name green and then realised I didn't want his name to be green and so I scribbled in a few colours and did black over it and etched his name because etching is pretty. Maybe it means something that I didn't want his name to be green but this is still a null read for me. I read his posts and they just kind of wash over me. His later stuff -- after the part where you asked me this question -- seems less cookie cutter than his earlier stuff did? I think I need to be in a more languagey place than I am before I'll be ready to have a read there. For now I'm listening to what you're saying and taking it seriously but I want to get there on my own in my own way.

Tbh, I'll probably seem pretty cookie cutter until I'm able to fully keep up. When just being able to read the whole thread is as much a priority as finding scum, it makes things pretty rushed and ruins any chance at real-time interaction.

Are you getting camn's role claim with notice confused?

Nope.

______________

I'm close. I'm through 32. But I can not focus at all. I have to call it quits for the night.

[Kmd4390]

So I stopped reading at the right time. Next few pages are just about late night posting, drinking, spiff's "buildup" thing again, avatars, and whether we should use the word "dumb" or not.
_________

What do you think the scum benefit is to do what mastina did?

simple

to get town read

*shrug*. Maybe, but that only works for so long and then they'd need to fullclaim later to back it. Doesn't seem worth the trouble.

___________

I'm through 38 but already running late for work so will finish up tomorrow barring a post explosion.

[Kmd4390]

Ok, I know 5 pages isn't a "post explosion", but it's still a lot for the time I have. Tomorrow I'll be on the road for the whole day with a brand new phone so if I can get used to the touch screen instead of a keyboard I'll use that on the part of the drive where my wife is driving. And on a related not,

V/LA through Sunday

As soon as I get out of work at 7am, I'm leaving to go to a NASCAR race.

~ Have fun!!! ~

[Kmd4390]

So I'm back from the NASCAR race, but working 16 hour days five of the next seven days. I can't catch up right away but will put serious time into this game Thursday and should be able to do better after that. If anyone wants anything addressed, I'll be around off and on for the next two hours or so and will check forposts after this one.

[Kmd4390]

So I'm back from the NASCAR race, but working 16 hour days five of the next seven days. I can't catch up right away but will put serious time into this game Thursday and should be able to do better after that. If anyone wants anything addressed, I'll be around off and on for the next two hours or so and will check forposts after this one.

Do you have reads?

I do. My ISO should give you a pretty solid idea of them. If not, my top three picks for scum are Ginngie, Prism, and maxwell (now leon). Top three town are camn, spiff, and cary.

[Kmd4390]

I have a little bit of time, so quick reading.

Yeah that was a pretty good post from kmd

I actually don't like this. Without reasons why you like it, it seems like you either went "oh a lot of words" or "the guy who hasn't been here posted so it's good" and it comes off as trying to say what you think a general consensus would be rather than a genuine thought.

<Insert catchup post here

^townposting

Uhhh...

_________

The rest of the page is about TV, drinking, and maxwell having nothing to say so I have no comments there.

_________

Here's the beginning of the ahsoka wagon. Heartless voted a scum read. Cary sheeped after just saying Ahsoka's ISO wasn't good so that's fine. Ginngie's vote is the one that stands out and I hope this isn't just confirmation bias but it looks pretty bad to me.

The more absent mastina is the more likely it is that she is scum

I actually agree with you on this

I don't. If I'm not mistaken, mastina doesn't believe in lurking strategically.

I think that if the intention of Ginngie's self-vote was manipulative in the way that you and camn have implied (faking an emotional meltdown of some sort), then posts like #142, where she asks Spiffeh to vote her until next votecount or #160, where she points out that no one has asked her why she self-voted, go against the "poor me" image that a manipulative self-voter would be trying to cultivate. I think that Ginngie was trying to do exactly what she claimed she was doing; I think she was trying to encourage a wagon on herself to form reads. What do you think she was trying to accomplish as scum?

Well Ginngie's explanation on that has since changed to late night posting and effectively trolling. My best guess is that it was an attempt to show a lack of fearof being wagoned because it might be associated with a town Ginngie but I'm still confused by it.

I don't really understand this line of thought + the "trying too hard to fake her own meta" line of thought attacking Ginngie, but I'm not really sure it's a place where we'll see eye to eye at all. I don't understand why you think Ginngie is trying too hard to fake her own meta when you're completely unfamiliar with her meta (what is she trying too hard to emulate?), and I don't understand at all how "you're a good noodle" is trying to shake pressure - do you think that Ginngie calling camn a good noodle is her trying to flatter camn so that her bloodlust dies out, or...?

It read like buddying and trying to fit in. Also, I'm not "completely unfamiliar" with Ginngie's meta. We have one completed game together. I'm not exactly an expert on Ginngie, but we have played together.

My argument is not that vig never shoots negative utility. My argument is that you're acting like all negative utility claims were created equal when mastina's claim is most certainly not a negative utility claim on the same level that Camn's was. 

What could mastina have meant by "honorary scum" if not negative utility?

...Ok, I see the next quote. I don't think it invalidates my point though.

_________

Through 41.

[Kmd4390]

I still won't be able to catch up until tomorrow, but noticed this:

Indeed I do not. It is a despicable strategy and anyone who so much as considers doing it is trash. Those who make the accusation are arguably even worse. You do NOT make that accusation because you do NOT do that as a player. If I were to accuse you of, say, lying about real-life to gain an advantage in the game, you'd want to go ballistic against me, yes? It's a universal standard.

And that's absolutely what I thought you believed about it and I agree 100%. The fact that Spiff and Ginngie both apparently think you lurk as scum rubs me the wrong way, especially ginngie who I thought knew you better than that.

[Kmd4390]

*shrug*

Believe me I wish I could quit my job lol. But my schedule does slow back down to normal after this weekend.

[Kmd4390]

You're acting like getting people to talk and interact with me is a bad thing. It wasn't me saying "I'm drunk so townread me", but a "Interact with me and draw your own conclusions." I never exaggerated how drunk I was, which you acknowledged yourself. You're acting like I was masterminding some deceptive masterstroke relating to how drunk I would pretend to be, how much I actually was, people's perceptions, and deftly navigating the inbetween to my advantage akin to conducting a fine surgery.

All I was saying is that if I'm scum, I'm not going to get tigheter/sharper play when I'm drunk, so interact with me and see what you get. That's just a plain fact.

I think it's obvious you were implying we'd get genuine town you because I don't think you'd be willing to post as sloppy drunk scum if it was what you made it out to be. It's not a "mastermind" move. It's pretty simple, actually. You acting like you don't understand my point is probably worse than that anyway though.

Wanting to lynch people because you don't know them is such a garbage reason holy fuck. Like wtf is that style of play

It's normal for camn though. I've seen her basically eye roll people who think Day 1 is all about lynching scum. I agree in the sense that Day 1 is where you develop reads and gamestate, but I don't completely agree with the familiarity thing. I actually think that sometimes it's harder to play with people you know really well because you get too confident in certain things you pick up and it's easier for them to manipulate you if they are scum because they know what you look for. *shrug*, everyone is different, but like I said I've heard this view from camn before.

Dont tell anyone, but half the shit I do I just wing it and then make it sound like I planned it all along

You'd be surprised how much I do this too.

This might be the first time I've seen you admit it but yes you do that a lot.

Yeah KMD can be scum for this.
Everyone was scum in WWF.
Including me.
Including KMD.
KMD was solo-scum though. A serial killer. All of KMD's reads were genuine, and that's why we were working well together. Though, me calling KMD my mason-buddy was actually me specifically as scum buddying KMD.

We also knew there were multiple teams. Everyone had genuine reads. I was townreading you and I was pretty positive you were townreading me. If that was you buddying me, what is different about you calling camn a mason buddy here? To be clear, I don't think you're scum who is buddying camn. I think you are probably town who has a strong town read on camn. It's basically the same thing. The only way I'd see it differently is if you were to flip scum in this game. The point was that you make strong statements about your town reads so it makes sense for scum to try to pocket you so Spiff's argument that that's what was happening was valid.

Because I am the player being talked about.

Ginngie was 100% right about everything she was saying RE: me.

Spiffeh was mostly wrong about everything he was saying RE: me.

And as the player they were talking about my opinion should hold some fucking weight should it not?

I guess I can see that. Maybe I was confirmation biasing because I've been townreading spiff and scumreading Ginngie. I've been pretty bad with confirmation bias lately I think.

I am embarrassed that I'm not doing a better job of secret alting but I guess it's not unreasonable that almost1 everyone who has a hope of reading me based on meta has figured it out.

It's bothering me that everyone knows except me =(

Regfan would be awsome as fuck. Relatively easy to read, but an excellent player

This is going to be pretty nitpicky, but why the word choice on "but"? It makes it sound like "easy to read" is a negative. A good player who is easy too read sounds awesome to me.

But sadly, no, I have no real idea. Sorry.
A thing with this game was I kept looking at posts and really just seeing... words. I couldn't pick anything alignment indicative from them.
I don't know what would cause that, honestly. It could just be my poor mental health, or it could be that I'm losing my love for mafia. Not sure.

Could just be the strong playerlist or the large number of hydras. There are definitely stretches of the game where I feel the same way.

____________

I'm through 50 and my eyes are glazing over this. I'll come back to it in a little while.

[Kmd4390]

Spoiler:

Antihero vs Jae bores me because I see what Jae is saying more than what Antihero is saying but Heartless is dead town.

_______________

Does nobody find it alarming that a lurker lynch is literally the only major wagon? Like, the only person with more than one vote is me and thats just wrong. Scum are almost definitely hiding there!

Caryatid and Ginngie were the jumps onto the wagon and I do note it happened before a great deal of Alt talk occurred. I think Ginngie is the worst vote and her talking around me when I arrived rather than to me is damning I think.

Actually very good points in hindsight. I'm a firm believer that scum will always be present on a Day 1 mislynch, but with no counter wagon (Heartless mentioned past wagons. I don't think that counts) that is even more true. I'd guess two scum before looking at who was on the lynching wagon. And I've already said this, but Ginngie's vote looked the worst in that string of votes.

Bella said she was unsure of this being of some 'town pings' now that Ari is actually posting, but we agree that we will get information either way from this lynch. I could be convinced otherwise but you'd have to point a name and make a good reason for it Ari.

Information is a bad reason to lynch.

Aristophanes (5) ~ VNB National Plan, Caryatid, Ginngie, Spiffeh, camn

So my two scum guess was based on a seven person lynch. Wasn't thinking about the plurality thing. And this wagon has three players who I have strong town reads on. At the very least, if I'm wrong on Ginngie I probably need to look at VNB a little more closely.

hee

What was this a reaction to specifically?

Well, well. Aristo.
This flexy deadline business needs a bit of adjusting to, I think.

That's annoying

yeah

Camn and cary, you were voting him. Were you planning on switching or what?

Who would do that... a couple white guys, who else?

pedit: white guys are the worst

Men are awful.

#NotAllMen #JustThoseOfYouGettingDefensiveRightNow

^Can we please not do this?

I'm not saying Ahsoka is scum lurking but nancy has more content in thread....

I didn't mind this at the time but in retrospect: Have you noticed that nancy has more content than literally everyone except Heartless and Ginngie? She has more content than Leon+Max, Kmd, and you put together.

You had to have gone to the activity overview to make this post, and "has less posts than the mod" is a valid criticism in most games, but most games of this size, the mod would have like a third of the posts that nancy does.

Good point.

We made notes that your last large post seemed like a lot of Information instead of analysis. Also your votes sucked donkeys and you sat on a Prism vote until the end phase. Also I've made jokes about responding to people from 30 pages ago so they can never question me about anything relevant and I am suspicious you're actually putting that into practice.

This actually translates into "scummy because RL". When you're in catch up mode, things will come off IIOA because it's old. I don't change votes when I'm behind unless it's to avoid a lynch I'm not ready for. And 30 pages ago is because that's where I had read up to. Every bit of this is because I've been at work and traveled out of state. Those are things that happen regardless of my alignment in mafia games. Also I should be good after this weekend. I'm pretty sure I said this already, but my schedule should be pretty normal again starting Monday.

Do you have reads?

I'm actually curious how you could wonder this unless you ignored my posts and chose not to check my ISO before asking. I've been pretty clear on quite a few reads.

It's the basis of their Ahsoka vote, of course it's AI. Did they have reasons to think Ahsoka's posts were the scum kind of terrible or was it just BS to justify a vote on a town player?

Which do you think it is?

wait what

Yes?

I really don't like your Prism scum read. Bear liked your Prism vote, but I didn't. It felt easy and fabricated. Bad arguments, and very subjective. And then it seems like you stick with that scum read just for the sake of it.

Ok? Unless you can be more specific, I'm not sure what to say because you could just say this about any vote.

This is kinda ridiculous. You're accusing him of being scum and pretending to be drunk (or drunker) to get town read. I don't think Prism's ISO is so devoid of content that you'd have to reach this low to back up your scum read.

That would be ridiculous if that's what I was saying. This discussion has already happened.

Then he answers your accusation and your reply is "ok, but people do that." There's no reflection from your part on whether or not Prism is that kind of person, nor does his answer seem to affect you in any way. You just stick to what you said. Prism's "drunk" post was manipulative because some people do that kind of thing. That's a terrible argument.

When people you don't know use self meta, do you go "oh, ok, you must be town then"? Because I'm more likely to ignore it.

You even manage to scum read Prism for liking your post. Did you think it was so unlikely that your post would be liked (it happens sometimes)? Why didn't you ask him why he liked it if your problem was the lack of an explanation? Instead of fabricating reasons say how him liking your post makes him scum.

Again, this has been discussed. When people just see a lot of words and call it town, that will always stand out to me. And I actually did give Prism the option to be more specific which I don't remember happening.

You also shared a common position with your scum read on the Spiffeh subject. How do you feel about that?

I mean I don't view Prism as confirmed scum or anything if that's what you're asking. Mostly I was wondering where people saw anything scummy in Spiff's posts. But yeah I guess Prism seeing the same thing as me is probably worth some town points.

I don't think your ISO is clear about what you think at all which is the problem. Like..

"Well Ginngie's explanation on that has since changed to late night posting and effectively trolling. My best guess is that it was an attempt to show a lack of fear of being wagoned because it might be associated with a town Ginngie but I'm still confused by it."

You don't sound like you think she's scum.

Let me clarify then. I don't think town has any reason to try to match their town meta intentionally.

Kmd: 'My best guess is that it was an attempt to show a lack of fearof being wagoned because it might be associated with a town Ginngie but I'm still confused by it.' Also, bella says there are way too many linguistic qualifiers in this sentence - 'guess' 'might' 'confused'. You don't sound like this is a legit read either way. You sound like you're posting words. The rest of the post has nothing in it either, it looks huge but this bit is it? Nothing you given moves the game forward in any way. "YOU'RE GIVIN ME NOTHING!"

Yeah, you're right. I haven't figured out for sure what Ginngie was trying to accomplish there. There's plenty of context before this about how it reads like Ginngie was being manipulative and trying to accomplish

something

but it's hard to tell what exactly. I don't like the change of explanation either. I think you're reading a lack of confidence in this read that isn't there. Had I been caught up, I would have been voting Ginngie for most of Day 1.

I'm not really here because I'm busy with my girlfriend but I think you and VNB are arguing about words and you're resisting the realisation that it's just words.

Why is that more likely to be scum doing it intentionally than town just being stubborn?

If the conclusion is "nothing meaningful to analyze", then what's the point of posting this in the first place? I don't see why town would devote 1 of their 3 content posts to something that ultimately doesn't matter. I feel like scum are more likely to say something like this because "hey look at me thinking critically about the game!!!", whereas I don't think town would waste their time. It's as if he realizes "analyzing the wagon" is something that's expected so he made sure everyone knew he was doing it even though it didn't result in anything helpful.

He grabbed quotes and everything, it seems like he's trying to pass this off as a meaningful contribution when it's actually useless.

Devil's advocate because I don't town read Leon, but don't you think scum would be more likely to come up with some conclusion to make it look better?

KMD isn't an awful vote I guess. I remember playing with his alt before who I was easily able to identify as town and I'm obviously not getting that here. I just don't think anything content-wise against him is all that compelling.

Shaman mafia? I was on vacation from work Day 1 of that game when you started townreading me. People ALWAYS town read me when I have free time to post and scum read me when I don't lol.

ah. Who here has seen you do that before, do you know?

As town or scum?

camn, NMS
Imperium, Caryatid
KMD, Prism
Leonshade, VNB, Polar

I could dig murdering that list..from the bottom up.

Hell, throw Ginngie in that bottom tier and I'd probably volunteer to go first. Why does my top scum read have reads pretty close to my own. Like switch Cary with Mastina and Prism with Polar and it's basically my reads. (Also, spiff got forgotten so put him in the town tier). *sigh*. Maybe I DO need to re-evaluate Ginngie. Or maybe just Ginngie's buddies if Ginngie flips scum at some point.

kmd still needs to answer my question about 20 pages back that someone reinforced and went more indepth on at some point, which is "Why is your vote still on me?'

I wasn't caught up and there was no point unvoting someone at one vote. My read on you also never changed so there's that too.

___________________

Camn and VNB, can you go into detail about what you liked about Leon's catch up? I'm not seeing it.

Town: camn, mastina, Imperium, Cary, Leon, Prism

Who's Left: Spiff, KMD, VNB, Polar Vortex

Oh, wow. Your reads stopped matching mine pretty quickly. That was like my only hesitance on scumreading you.

I get your point, the point is flatly wrong. Again, I made no attempt to play up how drunk I was. You acknowledged this when discussing me knowing what a backspace key is. I made it clear that the invitation was to interact with me and see what you got, not to townread me for nothing. You have yet to acknowledge this one, but reading any of that post as well as any of #420 or any of the post you quoted makes it clear what the intent was.

Again:

I think it's obvious you were implying we'd get genuine town you because I don't think you'd be willing to post as sloppy drunk scum if it was what you made it out to be. It's not a "mastermind" move. It's pretty simple, actually. You acting like you don't understand my point is probably worse than that anyway though.

It's not so much how drunk you were as "lol interact with me and see how town I am". Yes, you threw in the "sloppy scum" line and invited people to make their own decision. But the implication is clearly that you're saying you are willing to post because you'll be genuine town. You are clearly looking for town reads with that comment.

Like, here we are, let's appreciate the fact that we're on page 66 and I'm still having to explain that basically stating "I'm drunk and presumably worse as scum, come talk to me." 40 pages back is not a scumtell. This is the last I'm saying on it, I don't scumread you for it, but the fact that we have mountains of actual shit to read and I felt it necessary to make a 7th restatement because you're refusing to actually read the point and instead talking semantics (Oh, it's less than surgery!) is disgusting

I've read your point. You've completely missed mine (still). I'm fine with dropping the discussion on it though because we were talking in circles long before now. Nothing productive will come from it.

ie.

Sure, I could have been indirectly implying I was town just for the fact I was posting at all.

I made it really clear in the post though that the whole point was just to talk, nothing more, and to leverage your advantage regardless of what I was or how large/small it turned out to be.

Yes! This! The bolded. That was the point I was making.

________________

I also want to clarify that Prism's votes that I pointed out and the calling my post town without saying why are a much bigger deal to me than the whole drunk posting thing. The fact that that one point was the one that drew such a reaction doesn't mean that it's the main basis of my scum read.

________________

Reads, town on top, scum on bottom:
Kmd
Spiff
Cary
Camn
Imperium
NoticeMe
Polar
VNB
Leon
Prism
Ginngie

Vote Ginngie

[Kmd4390]

Oh my God, almost 11pm. There goes my entire night.

[Kmd4390]

Ginngie, you're right I should start talking to mastina about the things that bug me about you....oh wait:

And that's absolutely what I thought you believed about it and I agree 100%. The fact that Spiff and Ginngie both apparently think you lurk as scum rubs me the wrong way, especially ginngie who I thought knew you better than that.

Have you actually read my posts?

______________

Planning? No. Possible? Sure.
I like to see how people behave when they are looking at rope.
I like to see what happens when people are forced to choose. Both on or off the wagon

Fair.

[Kmd4390]

Ginngie, here is a recap of my reasons for scumreading you:
-the self vote. I've said multiple times why I don't like it.
-trying to match your town meta
-the whole thing about trying to pocket mastina
-the aris vote
-the misrep of mastina's meta (piggybacking spiff's assertion that mastina would lurk as scum)

____________

My post got spoilered.

~ It was very very long!!! Mentioned this in the rules but if you don't want me to edit your posts just let me know. ~

[Kmd4390]

"trying to match your town meta"

That honestly makes no sense. There's this great little thing, where people, as town, magically look like their town meta. So saying I look like my town meta as a reason to say I'm scum makes no actual sense.

Why are you acting like I said "this is your town meta so you are scum"? It was the thing about trying too hard to look like you were ok with being wagoned because you seemed to think it would come off as matching your town meta. I only have one game with you. I don't know the difference between your town and scum game so I don't know what actually is your town meta. It's the way you approached the votes. It came off fake and then your meta was discussed so I took it as you trying to match your town meta intentionally.

Pocketing mastina debate, I was in the right, even mastina said I was in the right. There was a fuck ton of proof showing I was right.

You may have been right about mastina's read on you in the other game, but again that's not the point. The point is that you appeared to be trying to pocket mastina and there's plenty of incentive to do so as scum.

Ari vote, I ask you, what was their to townread about him?

Maybe you should ask someone who was townreading him. But scum jump on scummy townies all the time and of the votes on the wagon yours definitely looks the worst.

Also, there was no misrepping mastina's meta? I never declared how mastina played and was scum? I felt the lack of presence of mastina and got paranoid?

Is getting paranoid about other slots scummy?

Spiff said mastina would be more active as town. You agreed. That is not at all mastina's meta. I don't believe it is and mastina doesn't believe it is. I feel like you should know better. That's a misrep.

Also, if I'm trying to pocket mastina, how is it I'm also thinking she's scum?

That doesn't connect.

The scum read came AFTER Spiff called you out for pocketing mastina. I doubt you continued to do it anyway and I've seen no evidence you've been trying to do so since then.

I might've misread it, but I thought Heartless was saying "That's annoying that Ari flipped town" so that's what I was saying yeah to. I wasn't planning on switching; if we'd gone on a mad deadline scramble, we would've spent most of day 2 arguing about Ari all over again, unless we hit scum in the deadline scramble but possibly even then. I think it was pretty clear that nobody else was getting lynched that day: we were all just waiting around for Ari to do something or not do something and nothing Ari was doing was convincing any of us so it didn't surprise me that the deadline was reduced to 0 from 12 when the deadline had been falling by about that much per day anyway and we knew that it falls more quickly when we're sitting around doing nothing.

I think that now that we know how the deadline battery worked on day 1, we should be more aware of it this day phase.

Oh, ok. I was reading it as annoyance at the lynch going through when it did.

Either. @Spiff, I really want an answer to this. By asking the question, I'm saying that I have seen him do it before (as town; haven't seen him as scum before), and that I know of at least one other player here who has, but Spiffeh should have a better memory of who he's played with and how often he does that gambit than I do since I'm limited to games of his that I played in/read. Either the scumteam weren't reading very closely and missed his post entirely [which suggests one group of players], OR someone on the scumteam was able to say "nah, that's not a crumb, he does that as VT too." and I really want to know who that list of players is.

So town. k.

Can you talk about NoticeMe? You and Mastina seem to know each other pretty well, is she null for you or do you have a lot of town reads?

I don't have null reads. You and Spiff are solid town for me. Camn, Imperium, and Noticeme are town reads who I'd reconsider for paranoia reasons later in the game. Polar is a weak town read I'd PoE flip on if my scum reads are dead wrong. VNB and Leon are weak scum reads. Ginngie and Prism are stronger scum reads.

You've mentioned your scumread on Max/Leon before but you haven't gone into a lot of detail about that read, just pointed to a couple posts you disliked. Can you go into more detail?

Not really. There isn't much there. Anything that stood out to me, I mentioned.

Like, I totally get why people scumread Gin. I made the same mistake at first my first two games with her.

I had Ginngie as a hard town read the first time around. Why are you bringing that up though? You think I'm town for apparently being wrong on a read or...? Like it still doesn't add up to me.

[Kmd4390]

You are so frustrating

@kmd

[Kmd4390]

But if Ginngie lurks as scum, it would stand out as odd. The only choice is to try to play in a way that they'll see as town.

[Kmd4390]

Please just never use the word meta and me in the same post because it's irritating that you won't listen to the players WHO ACTUALLY KNOW ME, and you try to put meta as an argument. It's borderline asinine.

I'm not going to use meta because I don't know enough about your meta.

But if Ginngie lurks as scum, it would stand out as odd. The only choice is to try to play in a way that they'll see as town.

I lurk as town as well.

Firebringer Accounting Mafia.

My play style isn't concrete

You're misunderstanding what I meant. I meant if you are scum here and lurk to avoid players who read you well, it would stand out. So it wouldn't make sense for you to do it.

Repeating myself but to make it absolutely explicit: That post was quoted because it showed what I read into your wall, that I thought your read was legitimate but why I think you were wrong. Being wrong on Ginngie and being scum giving a fake read are two very different things and I saw it as the former rather than the latter.

It is relevant now because you specifically highlighted that I didn't explain what I liked about your post indepth. That post is the full response that got clipped out, presumably because you thought it was separate from the oneliner or said nothing about you beyond being an answer.

Ok.

that comes off as making enemies for no reason since camn and NMS would probably let Ginngie get lynched over their dead bodies. Actually a vote on me or Polar would make more sense since there's a vague scumread of me being expressed and Polar is on shaky ground. (of course that would require actually reading the current page to know. ) Why do you have Polar above me on your readslist KMD? Because we were on the wagon and everyone else is a townier read?

You're overthinking my Ginngie vote. I'm not in compromise mode so it doesn't matter where the support is. I'm voting who I think the scummiest player is and hoping people will agree after I post. Polar is townier than you because nothing about Polar stands out as being that scummy. I'm factoring in your Aris vote and the way you danced around Aris maybe being town but stayed on the wagon anyway. I also don't think your points about me being busy and therefore scum are something you actually believe. I had you as town for most of Day 1 though, so that's why you are a weaker read than Ginngie and Prism and on the same level as Leon (although my read on Prism is probably weakening because some of that may have been miscommunication).

No, but I don't just ignore it. I take it into consideration, see if it adds up with their posts from the game we're playing. You stuck to your generalization that some people manipulate others with "drunk" posts, ignoring not just the self meta but the whole context of the post and player who posted it. I don't understand how you can read this game, read Prism's posts and think he would have done that. Maybe I'm being ingenuous, but I just don't see it.

Like I've said before, I don't know Prism. This game hasn't gone on long enough and I haven't been around enough to make that kind of judgement on what Prism would or wouldn't do and that was even more true at the time of my post you're referencing.

You're not in a position where scum would town read you for making a long post. What makes you think scum Prism do that?

Prism has since answered my concern, but to explain where I was coming from: It seems like a lazy and easy stance to see a wall post, go "ooooo words, town", and that's what I was seeing. Especially when the concerns about me are that I've been busy. As soon as I come in and post, especially on Day 1 like it was, some of that will naturally go away. Activity reads typically have nothing to do with alignment and everything to do with RL as is always the case with me, yet those reads still happen and I see all the time how they work. It basically comes down to separating the difference between "this player feels under the radar. it feels off. I genuinely feel this person could be scum" and "well this guy isn't around so he's probably lynchable, so I'll keep that option open". The second one is the one that will back off lazily when activity picks up where the first is more likely to explore what has changed. And of course it's not a clear cut "town always do this" or "scum always do this" but it does stand out when it happens.

[Kmd4390]

KMD, you ever find it hilarious how you think people are going to somehow agree with you when the whole game is going "This is town Gin through and through"?

Not at all. My goal is to lynch scum and if that's a tough goal to accomplish, no, nothing is funny about that to me. I can see where it would be funny to you if you are scum though.

[Kmd4390]

Okay look, I'm gonna level with ya sister.

You can help me with Polar, or you're today's lynch.

Because to be honest, you don't even have a snowballs chance in hell to lynch me and its a vanity vote and we both know that.

So, what's it going to be?

I'm not switching at this time. I'm open to compromise later, but not right now.

[Kmd4390]

Did that sound indecisive to you? I'm not switching at this time.

[Kmd4390]

Lol

[Kmd4390]

"You're going to die." "I'm going to vote my scumread." What's scummy about that?

kmd, I assure you that I completely believe your inability to play the game in the moment for 1 and a half game Days is scummy.
You didn't do anything like that in the game we played together. (although that was a year ago, jesus.)

Do you need my work schedule posted here or what? I don't lie about real life and I sure as hell don't view lurking as a valid straegy.

The fact that kmd isn't even voting anybody at this point?

Not true.

You're open to compromise with that scumread you feel really strongly about? Could you give me the short form on why you're suspecting Ginngie?

I'll compromise if it's clear near deadline that I'm not getting my way. I answered that question for ginngie a few posts ago. Go back and read it.

__________

If any of this came off cranky, pissed off, and rushed, it's because I'm just now getting home from work and going to bed for 5 hours before I get up to go back.

[Kmd4390]

Vnb, as I said before I answered old stuff because I wasn't at the new stuff yet. Catching up isn't some new groundbreaking thing. It's what I do when the last two weeks of August are so busy I only spend two days with my kids. The drunk post thing I was responding to posts directed at me. I try not to ignore posts. And your aris vote, deadlines are different here. There is no threat of a no Lynch. Leaving your vote despite questioning your own read means you were still satisfied with the Lynch even though you seemed to realize it was a mislynch.

Leon, I'm having trouble believing that a town aris got five votes all from town and scum weren't interested in jumping on.

Leon said
This is not really AI, but the fact that you were the one person trying to give me a fair chance instead of looking for reasons to string me up (at this point in time) does give me a warm, fuzzy feeling.

I'm having trouble with quote tags on the new phone but yeah. Don't get too excited. You're probably where I'll compromise when the time comes.

Leon said

dYoudYouan argument just one page prior to this about how it didn't make sense for KMD to scumread you, based simply on you declaring to be drunk and asking for interaction. I agree, and I think that's a sign of him looking for things to push, rather than genuinely trying to sort you. It wasn't reasonable to scumread you for it, and I think it's indicative of him treating you in bad faith, instead of fairly sorting you. Now, my view of KMD's behavior would also hold true if he was simply confbiasing himself, but I don't see why you don't understand my initial impression?

As I said before that wasn't the reason for my scum read. It's just the one thing that prism really pushed back on.

[Kmd4390]

Vnb, as I said before I answered old stuff because I wasn't at the new stuff yet. Catching up isn't some new groundbreaking thing. It's what I do when the last two weeks of August are so busy I only spend two days with my kids. The drunk post thing I was responding to posts directed at me. I try not to ignore posts. And your aris vote, deadlines are different here. There is no threat of a no Lynch. Leaving your vote despite questioning your own read means you were still satisfied with the Lynch even though you seemed to realize it was a mislynch.

My argument is not that it's groundbreaking or unusual for people to do catchup posts, my statement was that it's unusual for

YOU

. Do not misrepresent me. Besides, your take on it was "groundbreaking" in the sense it involved never actually catching up. Do you really not understand that it was useless? Most people when they're doing constant catchups will still take a moment to address things happening in the thread at that moment as well.

You railing me for my feelings on Ari's wagon is hilarious in context. The context being your opinion. You didn't HAVE one. You didn't mention him beyond not liking his early game entrance. (so you should probably have understood why I'd been scumreading him from the start?)

Edit: There could have been more posts if you were more patient nancy

It's really not though. Find any large game or otherwise fast moving game I've played in the past four years and I get behind. What is the point you are trying to make though? Am I lying about real life? Suddenly scared to play scum after 9 years on the site? Why do you think I'd strategically lurk as scum? What benefit would I see? Since you are so familiar with my meta, when have I ever done that?

[Kmd4390]

It's crossed my mind you might be scared to play scum against ME

/me bats eyelashes innocently

You always were my favorite N1 kill lol. That was memes though, not fear.

[Kmd4390]

I usually play as Egg. I'll get links Tuesday, but off the top of my head Cephrir's theme game and Adenture mafia (large normal) come to mind.

[Kmd4390]

This is not really AI, but the fact that you were the one person trying to give me a fair chance instead of looking for reasons to string me up (at this point in time) does give me a warm, fuzzy feeling.

I'm having trouble with quote tags on the new phone but yeah. Don't get too excited. You're probably where I'll compromise when the time comes.

The pseudo-threat here makes me feel queasy. As does the fact that you're trying to wash your hands of my flip by pre-establishing that lynching me would be a "compromise". If Polar flips scum, I'll remember that you were willing to "compromise" on me but not him.

You're a weak scum read (third choice). Polar is PoE at best (fifth choice). This should be obvious in my reads list. I see now that polar flipped town though so this isn't even relevent now.

[Kmd4390]

You're a weak scum read (third choice). Polar is PoE at best (fifth choice). This should be obvious in my reads list. I see now that polar flipped town though so this isn't even relevent now.

Yeah, that point is irrelevant now.

What isn't irrelevant is that today featured two counterwagons to you, and I know that both of them were on town. Now if you're town, this means that

scum has the town leaders pocketed and has been able to direct traffic towards townies

since at least the Spiffeh wagon. Spiffeh is your top TR, so if you're correct and town, it means that there's been major wagons on five different townies, 0 on scum.

I don't like the fact that Spiffeh's been lurking for the last couple days, but it doesn't look like he's specifically avoiding this game. I still have a weak townread on him from early on, so between the two of you, I'm going to be looking at you as the potential scum wagon in this game.

The bolded actually makes a lot of sense and I want to look into who did that. We've started the game with two mislynches so scum obviously have some control over things. I'm free all day tomorrow so this will make my to do list.

[Kmd4390]

VNB, those links you wanted proving that I do in fact go to work as both alignments in mafia games and fall behind and I don't call in sick and say "oh man I really can't work today because I'm town in my mafia games":
Wake's massive large game:
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=67827
^I was never up to date on this. I was at work during Day 1 and Day 2 if I remember correctly. I was scum here and got guiltied.

Homestuck Mafia:
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=66695
^Game starts May 26th. Once June hits, my entire ISO is nothing but catch up. I played almost the entire game from behind. I was widely scum read for it. I was town.

Adventure Mafia:
viewtopic.php?f=55&t=66557
^Got behind by about 30 pages, continued catching up, stayed in that range for what felt like forever. Scumread by a few really active players for activity reasons. Town.

Need more or is that enough to make my point?

________________________
About the thing Leon said where scum has town leaders pocketed and has controlled the mislynches:

Aristophanes (5) ~ VNB National Plan, Caryatid, Ginngie, Spiffeh, camn
Polar Vortex (6) ~ Prism, camn, Leonshade, NoticeMeSenpai, Caryatid, Ginngie

Cary, Ginngie, and Camn are on both mislynches. I also don't see any control if one of them is scum. If anything, they'd be piggybacking on it. And that only applies to Ginngie because camn and cary were each second on one lynch.

What I do want to know is why Ginngie believes Mastina has anything to do with this AND who Leon was thinking when he said it.

[Kmd4390]

Who left: Prism, Cary, VNB, Imperium, KMD

If you're in this group, there is one other townie among you.

I'm pretty much a universal townread we all agree.

So, who is your one town read and who is the scum team.

My best guess is you/VNB/Prism. I know Prism looked better towards the end of Day 2, but I've got town reads on everyone else.

[Kmd4390]

My best guess is you/VNB/Prism. I know Prism looked better towards the end of Day 2, but I've got town reads on everyone else.

So your guess is VNB/Prism and who?

This is answered in the post you quoted.

[Kmd4390]

My best guess is you/VNB/Prism. I know Prism looked better towards the end of Day 2, but I've got town reads on everyone else.

So your guess is VNB/Prism and who?

This is answered in the post you quoted.

The only reason I'm alive is so you can continue to push me lmao

Yeah I'm sure scum are factoring my reads into their kills

[Kmd4390]

So, KMD, why shouldn't we lynch you today?

How about because it would lose us the game.

Why didn't you answer my question about why you thought mastina had anything to do with what Leon said about scum pocketing the town leaders and that leading to both mislynches when mastina was only on one of the two lynches?

Preview edit: Ok, I was taking it as somewhere between a joke and exaggerated town read, but maybe they really are masons.

[Kmd4390]

How about because it would lose us the game.

Why didn't you answer my question about why you thought mastina had anything to do with what Leon said about scum pocketing the town leaders and that leading to both mislynches when mastina was only on one of the two lynches?

First sentence means nothing honestly.

Also because I'm a town leader and I got paranoid as fuck.

Hello, hi, sorry if you haven't noticed but I've been driving the game the whole time.

The way things are going I wouldn't be bragging about that. This game is kinda fucked. But I have you as piggybacking scum so we obviously don't see things anywhere near the same way.

[Kmd4390]

I'm Flavorless Lubricant, conditional roleblocking protecting visitor.

I choose someone to visit and if they accept, I protect them. If they decline, I roleblock them.

N1: I didn't get caught up in time to submit an action
N2: Visited Ginngie

VNB can claim next.

[Kmd4390]

I'm Flavorless Lubricant, conditional roleblocking protecting visitor.
I choose someone to visit and if they accept, I protect them. If they decline, I roleblock them.

This is alarmingly similar to a split jailkeeper. What does alarm mean? It means red alert: aside from obvious, roles aren't gonna be inherently town or scum no matter what their name is no matter how town/scum they sound and so on and so forth. Usage is of some help (for instance KMD's lack of N1 action is all kinds of ), but mostly we're going to be judging by play.

Why is a missing action suspicious? If I was scum, wouldn't my partners have submitted an action for me?

[Kmd4390]

Why is a missing action suspicious? If I was scum, wouldn't my partners have submitted an action for me?

Well not necessarily but if they did there's a thing called "lying". Shocker! I know! How could any player so much as think to stoop so low as to lie! But sometimes, these players, called the mafia, decide to lie to the honest townies in order to deceive them, thus earning them the moniker of scum.

It could be a lie about the nature of the role (not as likely) or it could be a lie about the action (more likely, as in, it was used you're just pretending it wasn't), or even a lie about missing it (as in, you deliberately chose not to submit the night action for whatever reason). I'm not gonna say town can't miss their actions. They can. I get that, that's why it's not condemning in of itself. It is however hella-sketchy.

*shrug*. What is the benefit for scum-me to lie unless I'd taken some real damning action or something?

[Kmd4390]

What damning action can my role as scum even take on N1? Target someone obvtown, you say it was in hopes of protecting. Target someone scummy, say it was in hopes of blocking.

[Kmd4390]

I don't get what a deliberate no action would accomplish for scum. I can see town doing it not wanting to block a power role though. Hell, I've even done that as straight town roleblocker.

Not sure why the scum doc / vig thing makes sense tbh.

I can understand the scum can't kill and use their action one. I don't know if nancy does that or not. Maybe someone who played Girls 1 would know? This is definitely your strongest possibility because you're not wrong that it would make sense. It's just not what happened lol. I have the benefit of knowing I'm town and just missed the action. I guess you could technically think I'm lying about RL though.

[Kmd4390]

Irrelevant; we're discussing N1, not N2.

Just checked, KMD never posted during N1

Ok, I know 5 pages isn't a "post explosion", but it's still a lot for the time I have. Tomorrow I'll be on the road for the whole day with a brand new phone so if I can get used to the touch screen instead of a keyboard I'll use that on the part of the drive where my wife is driving. And on a related not,

V/LA through Sunday

As soon as I get out of work at 7am, I'm leaving to go to a NASCAR race.

~ Have fun!!! ~

Oh yeah, and that brand new phone by the way. I didn't figure out all weekend how to get on the internet with it. After I got back from the race and while I was at work the next two days, my wife figured it out for me. So my entire internet usage that weekend was limited to the time we were at the hotel.

[Kmd4390]

Deliberate no-action. A scumbuddy knowing that with a scum-doc there's a vig. (Which we know there was.) Or even this: say nancy made a game where every scum player has a power role. (That, or the goons are not people they want making the nightkill.) Say also that nancy doesn't allow scum to both kill/action. Well then. SOMEONE'S gotta make the nightkill. And making the nightkill is a rather damning action to take instead of using your role, now, innit?

nancy hasn't said anything how the scum team works


Also

@nancy, can the one scum member perform a night action, while also doing a kill?

@Also Also, can scum select a target for their own teammates?

I think basically every mod allows this by just bolding in the PT "XXXX does this thing to ZZZZZ"

[Kmd4390]

I think basically every mod allows this by just bolding in the PT "XXXX does this thing to ZZZZZ"

It's important to get an actual answer and not just ~assume~

Fair.

[Kmd4390]

Catching up...

Prism's claim doesn't make me feel any better about Prism. I feel like both of us being town makes no sense because our roles are so similar. Prism being scum with that role would mean town and scum both have a JK variant though.

smitty is a reviewer and without a cop, it makes sense to have a mason pair.

Everyone agrees town are just a bunch of dumbasses so that's why you have some townies being able to be cleared

Imperium and VNB both claimed investigative.

__________________

So one of VNB/Cary has to be scum for sure. If it's Cary, that confirms Prism as town as well. Hmm.

Prism, how much of VNB's claim are you able to confirm? Probably just the fact that you got a PT together, right?

<-this got answered later with this:

I mean, just being pedantic but VNB themselves aren't confirmed beyond their ability to neighborize. I got no confirmation of their role, it was onesided.

I'm kind of wondering whether VNB is just a neighborizer and threw in that bit about the target having to be town so we mislynch Cary and scum wins. That claim really does seem too strong to exist with Imperium's claim AND masons.

You must've been roleblocked.

Prism and myself have the ability to block and both of our targets have confirmed that we targeted them. The only way VNB was blocked is if scum has a blocking ability that hasn't been claimed which would make three in this game. Either VNB is straight out lying or you are scum.

We're probably lynching Caryatid.
KMD is to give the doctor protection to VNB National Plan

If Cary is lynched and flips scum, I'll do this but I really think it's the other way around.

Additionally KMD's role is a great mixture of offense/defense in the context of handing a vig to a town player, in that it can be used to stop the town from functioning properly.

Huh? If scum have a vig maker, they'll use it to get town players killed. They'll give it to people with bad reads. What would be the point in stopping that?

_________________

I only have the last three pages to read. Need to feed my fish and will finish up after.

[Kmd4390]

If Prism is scum and you gave him a vig aren't you worried that the game is already over? It seems like you'd be freaking out more about that.

Yes that's exactly why I am freaking out.

But shouldn't Prism's lynch take priority over VNB's in this case?

If the game is already over why would I fake a guilty on you instead of someone like kmd who is easier to lynch and I was already suspicious of?

When you are scum faking a guilty, you always want to do it to someone not in the lynch pool. I just did that in my last completed game actually. I actually agree with Prism here:

me and Carya would probably be the most vulnerable to a fake guilty

His role should really have a neighbourizing component that it's lacking

Why? I didn't even realize until today that this game is apparently neighborhood central.

[Kmd4390]

I feel like with Prism having that shot, not lynching Prism is saying we're pretty confident Prism is town.

[Kmd4390]

If both VNB and Prism are scum then absolutely we have to lynch Prism today and VNB tomorrow.

Also it's 5 to lynch not 4 and Ginngie is in the pool of people who might be scum so no, Prism isn't clear yet.

So why don't you seem to be considering a vote on prism? (I should say "didn't" because it looks like you're trying to sort prism now")

[Kmd4390]

And literally I am the only person who is finding something even vaguely questionable about this entire situation?

I think it's too many possibilities to confirm town to be possible. So one of you/VNB/masons has to be lying.

And VNB busts out with a guilty in MyLo and everyone goes "yes! absolutely! let's follow them because it's not like we haven't been suspecting them the entire game!!!"

Exactly!

Nacho, spoiler, you don't have to fucking read me.

The point is that

I don't slowroll, I'm a coldblooded killer who doesn't give a fuck about you.

Either it's me+VNB+Ginngie or I'm not scum at all.

That being the team would explain all of the pushback I've been getting from you guys when I give my reads. Because those names have been my scumreads for most of the game (even if I was a little slow to suspect VNB).

[Kmd4390]

Pushback doesn't necessarily mean scumreading as much as saying my reads suck and all three of you have done something to qualify as pushback although admittedly you've done the least of the three.

[Kmd4390]

Another 19 pages? I honestly can't tell you guys when I have time to read all of that. Just tell me who to protect tonight.

[Kmd4390]

No, no, it was specifically about how he posts catchup walls all the time in his other games and it's normal for him not to comment on what's going on in the now.
You can be a lurker and still comment on the game as it's happening. Which is what he normally does. :V

That's because I'd post my catchup, go do RL, and come back to more pages. I was overwheled. I'm not scared to actually play scum. I just could not keep up.

[Kmd4390]

No, no, it was specifically about how he posts catchup walls all the time in his other games and it's normal for him not to comment on what's going on in the now.
You can be a lurker and still comment on the game as it's happening. Which is what he normally does. :V

That's because I'd post my catchup, go do RL, and come back to more pages. I was overwheled. I'm not scared to actually play scum. I just could not keep up.

Actually, you're right there was a difference. The fact that this game took place in late August and early September so fantasy football took over as my #1 online priority.