Mini 1939 - Organization XIII (Game Over)

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VOTE: Larxene

Don't think this has ever had any opposition but it's never really happened. Let's make it happen!

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No. We're not wasting a lynch. Please vote Larxene.

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If you don't vote Larxene we'll lynch you regardless of your claim. Your claim doesn't confirm you as town, sorry.

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In fact I honestly think that your claim is highly likely to be scum just based on /feelings/ about TTH/Anti's game design but, like, bleh.

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Doesn't even matter he claimed something confirmable and super pro-town. Why shouldn't I let him use it @_@

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@~@

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@_@

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Meh

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Do you fully skip the night or do you roleblock everyone at night?

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Umm, no. If it doesn't get used immediately we lynch you, sorry.

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need 1 vote / 45 minutes to win

or if roxas shows up, 1 vote / 67 minutes

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I do not like xigbar endorsing it

Right. I, Number Two, who know better than any of you the true purpose of Kingdom Hearts, am the traitor?

As if.

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Looks like we no lynch then... friends.

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jfc both these wagons are balls wtf are you smoking Xig?

Then take the lynch on a negative utility role and if I was wrong we'll have several weeks to discuss it.

There's no other options. You don't want a NL. vote.

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I admit, I was never really close to you Larxene. I never understood the way you talked or why you did things. Sorry for not trusting you.

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I'm taking some time off of this game. It's been very stressful.

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My Vexen alt guess was just vindicated. Which is nice.
It's worth pointing out that that would be phenomenally powerful as a scum PR in the late game because you use it at 8 way when everyone's online and quickhammer someone.
So that's nerfed.
But I'm not sure that's the angle I want to go down anyway.

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Is it possible that the entire scumteam hasn't put together who I am yet?

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No, it's not. I have a lot to think about WRT Vexen slot now that I can no longer assume that he's entirely out of touch with the modern meta and it's players.

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Why wouldn't you believe his claim?

Scumread him, sure, but his claim feels sort of locked unless for some reason he role swapped... and this role makes a shit ton of sense for the character.

I'm very fun. I can sing and dance and flirt with the mod. Now on to other, less important things...

this post was the sole reason I didn't continue to deathtunnel you D1 btw

VOTE: Vexen

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So this is going to be a lot of stuff that I can't particularly explain well because I'm trying to connect the disjointed pieces myself but I feel like the end result is that Vexen is scum. Bear with me here.
So really early in the game I saw that comment and was like I know who that is. Off of an incredibly obscure alt guess based on something that happened in -a game-, but it was like pretty firm. Then I was like, wait this guy literally never plays anymore there's no way it's him. So scratch that. It comes to a head later in the game with my push on him because I'm like scumreading him with a blank slate on the alt guess, then Zexion flips out at me, and I'm like calling me Thor and making everything about -me- seems like something someone who knows me and is scum pretending not to because their scumpartner was like 'HEADS UP THIS IS blank' would do! And I was really sure that they were scum then I tried to pinpoint exactly who it was and then it came back to the comment in the previous post and I was like oh shit the timeline kind of adds up, they wouldn't know who I am, they wouldn't have the context to say things about ego. And I generally recall them being -somewhat- tonedeaf in the way a lot of older posters are in the previous game, not as tonedeaf as they've been this game, but okay. I'll buy it. Especially since the major reason I scumread them was them saying things that felt to me like they know who I was but claiming not to. Then -something- happened recently that turned this to a head: not only do they still play, but I have played games with them and held out of game conversations with them and they've played enough to generally understand the meta. They would INDIVIDUALLY figure out who I am, they don't need the aid of a scumpartner to do so most likely. And it sounds like burden of proficiencying but they're really not as bad as their play in this game would indicate. Like I was happy to say okay they're bad town who hasn't played in years who can't get over all this shit that they deem anti-town: fine. But as it happens that's not the case and I can no longer make excuses for the scummy shit they do.

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That's just me trying to bridge the gap for the benefit of people who are uncomfortable with their reads on me and trying to get them to understand why my read transition has happened like it has.
I'll get a case more focused on why they're specifically scum at some point today, probably later rather than sooner because I'd like to take a week off and see what people do to get reads. I don't want to be leading 100% of the time.

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The pieces are starting to come together and this game no longer makes me feel like I'm dying on the inside, which is nice.

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Has Antihero already started drinking today?

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Marluxia, you think that Axel is scum? How do you feel about Vexen chainsawing the fuck out of everyone who goes after him? Everyone, that is, except Zexion, who he only asks questions to.

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Hope we see each other tomorrow Xigbar <3

I'm gonna claim, I can skip the night phase- mobile posting and best post you'll get from me rn

I can skip tonight's phase if I'm alive or not if I'm dead

If u think that's a scum role, u need to take a hard look at the facts

This just feels so wrong.

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Also: Zexion is super anti bus. But if someone had a super, super protown role to claim and they'd be able to get out of it easily, plus all 'HEY ZEXION WOULDNT DO THAT' that would come out of it...

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And that knee jerk 'you would find scum in a nunnery. zex never says that to me I really don't think. feels like her freaking out because im acumreafinh her buddy.

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No phone posting. I'll do complete sentences.

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It's okay. Don't worry about Vexen. He doesn't survive today in any universe.

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The only question is do I absolutely break this game tonight or tomorrow.

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Let's get my signature active.

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I'll wait 24 hours. Time is, after all, on my side.

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Meh.
I wanted to wait for something that would give me a lot more momentum but with people replacing out I'd like to just end this game now.

It's obviously not my style but both for the sake of making a point and thinking that I just haven't done this enough I'm going to create a pretty comprehensive case.

I do feel like in general if you're trying to convince town bits at a time is better than one whopping nuke but I'll have time to get everyone on my side later. This is about making a point.
Your gods are not our gods, Axel. The people that you worship are dead and gone, and you're not even an old player. Nor a good one, frankly.

My playstyle obviously seems to offend you, the respect that I'm given by others obviously bothers you, so you pretend that you don't know who I am and bash me anonymously?

Please. It's pathetic and you need a serious dose in humility.

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Especially considering that your join date is

after mine

.

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I'm 100% no questions on your identity. There's a single answer as to who you are and it's only become more and more obvious as the game goes on.

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So, who do I start with Mr. Christmas?

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This describes 0 people. Why are you lying?

How would you know if it describes zero people? That's a profoundly illogical position to hold given that you supposedly don't know who I am, so you don't know who would even serve as a starting ground to make that work out! Even if you did know who I was, it's pretty difficult to figure that NO ONE on mafiascum fits that profile for me.

Why am I lying tho

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Like, given the timing of it, you probably know who I am. But no one on site since my return has both interacted with me meaningfully inside and outside of games.

I will admit that from your perspective what I call meaningful interaction outside of game may not be so. We have talked outside of game.

Has anything I've ever done ever led to the impression that I'd bash people anonymously?

And given this, are you House? Cause if so, yes, you offend me and I dislike you thoroughly.

I am not oblivious to the Thor comments or the 'why would scum strongman me!' to attack my ability.
I consider that in this context bashing me anonymously when you're trying to pretend that you don't know who I am to try to make a point about how not hot shit I am.

You know. I understand that you have to keep pretending so the rest of this conversation can wait until postgame.

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Yes, I did. We both know you know who I am, though for my part you are one of two people whose identities I have not pinned down.

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Say what you want, neither the Thor comment nor the comments about me getting strongmanned in an Anti game come from someone who isn't acutely aware of my identity.

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It is, of course, possible that rather than it being an intentional slight you were overcommitting to pretending to not know who I was yet framing caused you to anchor it around what actually was.

And in that case I apologize for taking it personally but it felt like you were taking advantage of perceived anonymity to show how insignificant you thought I was.

You're scum regardless of which answer is the correct one though!

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To do that I would have to take seriously the idea that you aren't aware of who I am. And you know full well I was referring to one of your comments in this game.

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I was offended at what I felt were repeated attempts to demean me behind a veil of anonymity. If rather than intentional lambasting you just played badly, I retract what I said.

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I Xemnas: Conftowm
II Xigbar: Me
III Xaldin: I mean ehh they're shit. I did scumread them. This is my true candidate for fourth contingent on Zexion being town, but I disbelieve that strongly. Point is, their scumpartner ought to tell them to back the fuck off of me.
IV Vexen: I scumread. This later.
V: I don't think Lexaeus would actually play like this as scum. I go back to how in early game I felt like they were doing something that's particularly town indicative. They continue to strike me as that.
VI: Lexion: I scumread. This later.
VII Saix: I've had a strong feeling all game that this is bad town. With virtually any scumteam possibility I can come up with, their play makes no sense as scum. Someone on their team would be telling them to stop poking me.
VIII Axel: I scumread. This later.
IX Demyx: This is one of the slots that I could potentially be wrong on
X Luxord: I think that this is town for two reasons. First off, I had a major town ping from the original Luxord on day
XI Marluxia: I have a very strong gut townread on Marluxia. The way that they talk to me feels super town, their votes have been fantastic, some of the stuff they said I don't think ever comes from scum.
XIII Roxas: I think they are very towny, their retaliation vote on me was pretty towny, they've done some things I really liked. Good slot in general.

So like if I had to do a readslist it looks something like this

Town: {Xemnas, Xigbar, Marluxia, Saix}
Towny: {Roxas, Lexaeus}
Decently town: {Luxord, Demyx}
Eh: {Xaldin}
Scummy: {Axel}
Diediedie: {Zexion, Vexen}

Xaldin going eh is specifically contingent on a Zexion townflip which is phenomenally unlikely to my eyes. Otherwise I have a strong reason to townread them too.
So ignoring anything that I lay down regarding a case for why anyone is scummy: I townread every single other player besides these 3 people and that's not end of day struggling to eliminate, that's slow, measured PoE.
You could argue Axel should have a reason: but the moment I saw the claim my gut was screaming scum scum scum scum scum scum scum. Completely fucking certain, regardless of how protown.

That leaves three people, all of whom I individually scumread to various extents, and all of whom have weird as fuck associations with each other. Not original trilogy associations like I had before where I was like gradually cutting people out and sure this is bad this could be scum, there's some serious dirt here.

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So clarify: I do townread Demyx. I just can't put that much in terms of words to it because a lot of it is in fact based on meta. I think it's weaker than my other townreads, so I would be fine to see it lynched if I end up being wrong, which I wno't be: but sure.

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I feel like doing this slow and pacing myself. This is enough for today, I think.

Wouldn't a bad player also make the same move to ignore teammates?

I don't think it's the same kind of bad that we're talking about here.

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No, or I wouldn't have made it. And Lex if you have no ability to read me and 3/4 of the time I'm town and you know full well no one's reads on me are worth shit, what you do is

not vote me

.
And no, we're not lynching Saix today. We're lynching Vexen or compromise Axel. I would rather be lynched to make a point about how badly this town is playing than allow another town lynch.

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Maybe you actually are scum because that is one of the worst posts that I have read in my entire career on site.

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I'm sorry, but are you implying you're NOT another Town lynch?
And that you weren't responsible for Larxene's mislynch?

I absolutely am another town lynch.
I was responsible for Larxene's mislynch. I'm not calling town terrible because we lynched town yesterday, I'm calling town terrible because well there's a bunch of people not doing anything at all and a bunch of people tunneling me for absolutely no reason.

I am... Not sure about that townlean anymore.

Because I didn't specifically say another non-me town lynch? That's your reason to doubt your read on me?

About the rest of that post, just because I can't read you doesn't mean no one else can. And even then, unless my memory is fucking with me like the strongman thing, I believe I misread Scum!you as Town!you far more than the other way around.

Sorry, but the implication of this post is that fucking Saix and Xaldin can read me. It doesn't take you being a super invested player to realize that neither of them are skilled players nor has the scumread on me any merit. And no fuck you this is exactly what you said in our last game together to justify pushing on me and I find it incredibly unlikely that you wouldn't learn your lesson from last game when my slot was literally a totally free mislynch because people have a complete inability to deal with my slot in a rational manner.

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You know, now that you mention it.... Being insulted really makes me reconsider my stance on this.

Thank you for choosing to remind me that I'm shit at Mafia instead of actually trying to dispute anything I brought up against you. That's real fuckin' helpful

I make no comment on your ability as a player. When I say worst I mean scummiest given that it coming from town!you stretches disbelief in terms of you obviously knowing better than to push on me for what you are, you citing other people's scumreads (and in this case both are absolutely terrible and everyone who actually has a chance of reading me in this game townreads me) when you literally just saw where that direction goes, and just generally feeling like you're setting yourself up for a vote on me: which you would do as scum because you probably see me as an easy mislynch.

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I'm not trying to insult you but I find your current position utterly implausible.

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I've thought you were town a decent amount of the game in spite of a lot of crap. I'm trying to work with you but when you're calling me scum for the reasons that you are I have to be super suspicious.

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Can't bring myself to care about this game anymore so.

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Zexion, I do not have your support on a Vexen lynch, correct?

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Kinda want to just lynch Xaldin for sanity's sake

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The flip and the flavour have already confirmed this is far more of a TTH modded game than an Anti modded game so even if you weren't scum that holds phenomenally little water.

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I swear the number of times I have wanted to vote vexen has now reached double digits

They are getting lynched whenever I put myself together IRL long enough to get a coherent case on them.

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I say as the person getting deathtunneled by Saix who is being really dumb that they're town. Just no.

I'll powerwagon Vexen tomorrow, I've treaded water for far too long.

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Tomorrow. Sorry I'm taking so long I'm trying to do things irl

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Hey.

I'm here for a bit if you want to chat.

I don't really have the time to put together a coherent case for Vexen scum either today or tomorrow, so that leaves Tuesday.

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Fuck it we're going to lose this game if I don't start taking command. The game has stalled way too hard. If I don't provide a coherent direction for town then scum will, as they have been trying for days.
ITT I make terrible life decisions because I care too much about winning in mafia games.

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I'm having a great deal of trouble actually putting my thoughts into words here because I'm fucking tired and I have to get up in 5 hours
It's really dumb that I basically solved this game but I just have never been in a situation where I had the time and energy to do this. Just too much going on in my life.
I can be super convincing when I have that but now I'm just sorta useless and I can't do much about it.

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Making a bad case on Vexen is worse than no case at this juncture. He's still flipping scum and I implore Demyx and Saix, both of whom have expressed general support for the wagon, to vote there.
Saix is flipping town and unless we pull this together here it's a loss.

Sorry that I was somewhat bad yesterday but it's really hard to lynch scum consistently on D1. I still believe that, besides Axel who we unvoted for role reasons, my play was generally good. Larxene absent unfortunately, and I did ask for an extension that we didn't get so we ended up deadline lynching and absent slot, which is super unfortunate but. The long deadline does that to games.

Just please do me the favour of either flat out trusting me on Vexen or withholding your judgement and vote until Tuesday.

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If saix Lynch goes through autolynch demyx.

He's better than this and if he's not he needs to learn to be.

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He's not

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See that is actually a reasonable vote

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Because I'm trying to Lynch confscum

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Burden of proficiency me then. Let me lead todays lynch and I will make sure scum have to kill me before lynching me is ever on the table.

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Yeah, because he's town.

Please just vote with me.

I am so goddamn tired.

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Not mafia tired just regular tired.

Going to bed. ngite.

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Easy for you to say when my inability to find time to play this game essentially handed it to you.

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Vote: Saix

Please remember everyone is hated today. This is L2

FTR, I have varying degrees of townreads or needs a cop reads on everyone except

Xal
Saix
Dem
Lux

I'm fairly certain lynching those four is an autowin, and I don't want Xal to go before using his triple-track so he has to be tomorrow. Today, Saix has given me the impression that he actually does know what he's doing, which is even more damning of his behavior D1. Pretending to be VI to get townreads is not at all something town does, and I can definitely see someone trying that in this.

Not gonna vote there until Xig gets his chance to make me laugh with an attempt at lynching me, but I'm almost certainly gonna vote there later.

These posts are what fuel my Vexen TR.

Vote: Saix

Please remember everyone is hated today. This is L2

And this is like when two kids are talking behind your back and then they laugh and point at you but when you confront them they act like nothing happened.

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Xigbar did comment on the buddy buddy tho

-Why is Axel scumreading Saix?
-Why does Vexen's post look town?
-Why did Axel feel the need to post #1183?

Next on: the Chronicles of Axel's posts that no one cares about but probably should!!

Yes they're both scum so why did you unvote one of them

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I read you just fine, but as long as I have no time to play the game I have no time to play the game.

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I am pretty damn sure that he is

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If you're with me on Vexen then vote them please.

Demyx vote sucks and you're sheeping scum.

Also, Zexion isn't town but I fully expect her to endgame regardless of what I do so.

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At this point I'm just waiting till tomorrow and hardclaiming a guilty on him first thing if I'm alive.

If not, your faults for not lynching him today.

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Vexen was pushing Saix? so there you go.

Also, now there's also Vexion, but I think she's already won the game for scum since town is being really dumb.

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I agree that it's a townpost, but I've also been saying that Saix was town the entire game.

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We share 2/3 of our scumreads. Why don't you get past the fact that you feel the urge to policy lynch me and instead direct your energy at lynching Vexscum?

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Yes, no case. Mafia has deprived me of enough sleep. Bed. I have the vast majority of my day free tomorrow.

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For the first time on Day 2 I have the night properly free to spend on this.

Case tonight.

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Nope no case coming. No energy for mafia I guess.

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I am actually really sorry. I understand that people have high expectations of me. I just can't be who I want to be right now.

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Saix has been one of my top townreads for most of the game. The claim only matters in the sense that I want to persuade him to shoot Axel or Zexion after we lynch Vexen.

I expect that he'll attempt to shoot me though so *shrug*

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I also have a commute which can prevent me from dying as one of my abilities.
So.

Want that infinite bulletproof yet? vote Vexen.

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Vexen, re-read the last page.

Saix is not Quite a PGO, he's a Bomb, and it is lost upon activation of the vig shot.

Also I have a proposal.
I'm a protective role as well, though my secondary function is not investigative, which is why I wanted to know if Xemnas could survive a kill attempt. I was going to use that information to decide whether to protect Xemnas or Saix.

The idea was to protect Saix if Xemnas said he could protect himself, so that when/if Scum tried to kill him, his reflexive kill would trigger but he'd still be alive and his role confirmed.
Otherwise, protect Xemnas for obvious reasons.

HOWEVER, having two protectives provides a unique opportunity.
We protect each other, and become immortal. We're then guaranteed to survive to LyLo. If we can lynch even a single scum, we're guaranteed a win.

There's no downside that I can see here.

There's the fact that Vexen is a scumfuck you dip.

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Oh and scum 100% have a strongman: I can choose to shoot everything that visits me with arrowguns and reflexively roleblock everything that targets me.
My role pm explicitly names strongmen as being able to penetrate in a way that 100% suggests to me that they exist.

(that also means no one should be visiting or protecting me fwiw.)

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I also have a commute which can prevent me from dying as one of my abilities.
So.

Want that infinite bulletproof yet? vote Vexen.

Why of all the protects is Vexen's the scum role or fake claim?

Because his claim was scummy as hell and he was already scum so?

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Let the fireworks begin

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You already made excuses for why you weren't going to die tonight and now you're saying that the protectives should be on you.

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Also, if I'm 100% scum and have the ability to reflexively roleblock shit that targets me: why does scum need a bulletproof?

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Oh man did you get lucky that this happened during the intersection of TIFF, second week of classes, and a bunch of personal drama.

Guys for the love of annie just lynch this scum ass son of a bitch please.

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VOTE: xigbar

1 you are all pretty shit
2 it's still zex vexen Axel but feel free to Lynch lex for being as bad as he is

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Man how do TTH's games always end up being so shitty for me to play

VOTE: Vexen

Want to talk about claims matching the play?

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Pedit: Why would my claim make any difference in the matter?

Of course it would make a difference. But if you're the one stuck with the ninja and/or strongman which you can't exactly claim for towncred, well, unfortunate.

12 Larxene: Mass tracker counter, bla
5 Lexaeus: Strongman
+1

Mehhhhhhh
Guess there doesn't like, HAVE to be a strongman.

Luxord, if you vote Larxene I'll swing my weight to make that lynch happen over yours.

It's sort of funny that I just had a complete panic attack over my inability to figure out who the strongman on the scumteam was and wanted to change all the wagons for it, lol.

(between boldly lying about not having seen the role and just the format of the question, feels bad. As for an answer, if scum don't have a strongman my role is literally game breaking)

My how the time does fly.

Luxord's claim is... interesting. I also believe it, though I disagree that it doesn't make sense as scum. While it isn't an explicitly scummy role, it seems to me like it's got decent benefit either way.

And Xigbar, I've gotta ask...
What made you think there was a Strongman in the first place? It's not really a role I see super often... Come to think of it, I don't think I've seen it in ANY of my games on-site.

This slot is not only scum it's probably the strongman.

in fact there is a person on this site who may or may not be me who has personally been a strongman in two separate games with them.

I have been saying there has been a strongman since early D1 because it was mentioned in my role PM. Further, I was deliberately hunting off flavours to try to find the aforementioned strongman.
I went through one phase where I was like meh maybe TTH is trolling me but I doubted it even then and with all the claims there is obviously a fucking strongman.

Further: I have an alternate ability that I can use if I don't block the shots on me. I don't want to out it because it loses a lot of its value but my alternative role is in fact investigative and insanely helpful in this setup for tracking down fakeclaims. I guarantee you that if you lynch me and see my flip you will correctly realize that you are all fucking awful for voting me because my role likely constitutes a huge share of our power budget.

Now: let's talk about Vexen's claim. He claims that he's a protective that if it targets the same target twice it becomes an investigative. That makes little to no fucking sense.
You use protectives on people that you want to stay alive. You use investigatives on people that you think are scum. It's entirely working at cross purposes and it's a role that TTH would never design for that reason.
Not to mention that he has been an obvious scumfuck since like early day 1.

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Vexen has implied that I was worried about eating the nightkill: yes I was because at the level of control and townread I had on day 1 I'd obviously be strongmanned if I'm killed at all. Protectives would always be on me. I believe I also specifically requested at some point that protectives not target me but I'm not going through my ISO again to find it. Vexen also immediately after claiming a role that's at a power level of non-consecutive alignment cop said that he wouldn't die tonight. Why would he randomly not die tonight if he's on the kill list. Like it's super fucking obviously scum just making an excuse for this shit.

I am currentely at L-2 because two players, Saix and Xaldin, are voting me for entirely outside of game reasons. I personally think that should be against the rules and I have made as much clear, but I feel I have been objectively obvious town. The one, single thing that I can't adequately fake in my scumgame is the paranoid shuffling of votes near the EoD: and this isn't the first time I've said that. I've said it to multiple people in this game even. I shuffled my votes off of Luxord and Axel because I was looking for a claim that seemed made up because it probably coincided with the strongman and I wanted the strongman dead so I'd have free reign to break the game without threat of nightkill: Lux and Axel's were both confirmable and probably did not overlap with the strongman, although I will point out that Axel's theoretically could if the strongman flavour was just like Eternal Flames or something.

I don't have to claim anything here, and if I did have to fakeclaim I wouldn't have picked a fakeclaim that steps on Larxene's toes with the asceticness or like everyone's toes with the being nightkill immune that's essentially a parallell role to Roxas. It happens that there's a shit ton of overlap in the mechanics in this game, which is sort of common for a TTH game, but I have no reason to fakeclaim something like this as scum.

I have been saying Vexen is scum. If I had had more time I would have been able to make a case that would just break this game apart but now I just don't.

Remember that
1) Vexen made comparisons to Thor accusing me of being egotistical because I thought Vexion was pocketing me. While he claimed to not know who I was. That makes absolutely no sense: pocketing usually has nothing to do with a players level of competence or expertise, it has to do with outside of game relations. However if he's scum who was told who I was by his partner, it makes a lot of sense that he'd accuse me of being egotistical via proxy because that's how he thinks of me and he didn't properly cut bit of information that out of how he treated my slot. It's a clear slip of information that he claimed not to have. Also, the point at which he has the sudden dawning realization of my identity makes little to no fucking sense: it's not hard to figure out who I am based on style and the way I was treated in thread and he's played with me recently. Him suddenly figuring out my identity because I got pissy about him not figuring out my identity makes little to no sense and his realization itself feels so fucking fake, right down to the OMG INVEST HIM!!!. Wait, if you're the investigative, why wouldn't, like, you know, YOU invest me? Keep me alive if I'm town, sort me if I'm scum. But obviously he wasn't planning to make this claim at the time.

This describes 0 people. Why are you lying?

And how the fuck does he know what my relationships with people who exist are? I could just be wrong, but

why does he think that I'm describing someone nonexistent if he DOESN'T KNOW WHO I FUCKING AM.

2) Look at how Vexen reacts to Axel being voted. He absolutely freaks out at Saix about how bad the vote is . He even preemptively, while claiming to have a null read on Axel, makes excuses for not voting . He's also way, way too fucking concerned with me and Zexion knowing each other: it's pretty obvious based on the way that we're talking that we know each other and there's no real reason to have a doubt about that. But if you're scum who is trying to pretend to be town and pretend you don't know who we are it's understandable that you'd overcommit and go that angle because you weren't properly thinking through your town thought process. And look at this chainsaw.

Convince me Axel's scum, cause your 144 just seems like a big ball of nulltells on Axel and hypocrisy from you, and I'm not seeing a more cohesive case from you.

As far as Axel's alignment goes, I haven't the foggiest. That's pretty much the reason I asked you why you were voting him in 306, which I'd still like you to respond to, btw. I just feel that your overconfidence, hypocrisy, and dismissal of literally every other player you have to read is probably scum. I'm adding the tu quoque, loaded question, and fact you ignored me until I suspected you to the list of reasons your role pm is red as well, btw.

3) he's just generally scum. Luxord, if it were me being that confident you wouldn't townread me so don't fucking townread this guy for it. He's obviously not scum!RC 2.0 but he's more than competent enough to play this scum game: not one that I think is particularly impressive, I actually think he's kind of obvious scum, but I don't think that matters now. I made a case far earlier based on the way that he was talking and it still holds. There is absolutely no fucking reason his dumb ass should be alive right now and he is only so because scum have been not bussing, besides a throwaway vote by Zexion that she backed off of immediately when she had the chance.

[II Xigbar]

Like fuck me

[II Xigbar]

Vexen [1] - Xigbar

Marluxia: get your ass back over here.
Roxas: I don't give a shit what your read is here anymore. Remember when I said FA was scum and you kept insisting Shiro was town? That's this kind of game. If only for KH you owe me this vote.
Luxord: plug your nose and fucking do it and worry about if I'm scum bussing after.
Saix/Xaldin: I have been defending both of you and both of you are vote parking me out of sheer salt. Don't fucking be like that.
Xemnas: Just vote with me I have no idea who you are but this flips scum 100%

That's more than 6 votes.

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This is where the game is won or lost because I fucking guarantee you that if you don't lynch scum with me today you'll never lynch scum. You'll get caught up on some shit Demyx wagon, then lynch the people who were vote parking me, and you'll drown in your general lack of competence at this game as a group. Me taking some time off is not at all AI, nor is it relevant to the strength of my reads: if anything the fact that I came back and did a complete reset and still had Vexen as 100% scum is a testament to the strength of that read. If he flips town Saix can fucking vig me and I will not block the kill.

Look at how awkward Vexen was in terms of dealing with the personal stuff between me and Zexion. Look at his awful OMGUS. Look at Zexion freaking out and saying that I'd find scum in a nunnery with that kind of case on Vexen (which she would NEVER have said to me as town.) Look at Zexion's comment about how she is playing this game with a specific playstyle that she no longer likes: I cannot go into any more detail on that but that is literally a scumclaim in the truest word and it happened because at the start of the day all 3 scum were caught and they thought the game was just going to end.

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No you don't s

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Then leane don't play against your win condition.

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I don't have a clue who you are Saix and I don't care. I talked to the mods about this recently because I've been fed up with dealing with this crap and was told that this is in fact outside of game influences and playing against your win condition. You have no credible ground to stand ton claiming that you have an actual scumread on me with how open you've been about being a dick and voting for me because you don't like me. If you have an issue with me that prevents you from playing this game to your win condition then you can fucking leave. If you want to play the actual game then I am totally fine with that too. But what you're doing not is not okay in the spirit or word of site rules and I look forward to reporting you after game if you continue to play against your win condition.

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I'm not, and yes it is. Even if he is scum and being honest, it doesn't help us at all.

My predicament isn't that I don't want lynch Scum!Vexen.
It's that if I'm going to be wrong, I'd rather be wrong about Xigbar, who is just now claiming to be super powerful game-breaking investigative, as soon as I say him not having one makes him a safer lynch. Convenient, eh?

Holy fuck I am the best scum player that this site has seen in living memory and you think that I JUST NOW realized that claiming an investigative that I had would give me towncred.
I was avoiding claiming it because I didn't want the role outed. I fully understand how to make a good fakeclaim. Every single person in this game, afaik, has a role split into two parts.

And no. If you're town this is nothing to do with any of this this is you voting me because you don't have the maturity to play the actual game and go off of your actual read on me. You'd rather policy lynch me for happening to be in your game because fuck you if you have to actually put in any effort to read me right? fuck if you have to go meta me fuck if you have to go understand why I make the decisions that I do as scum that win game after game. You're sitting here pushing a case predicated on me being too fucking dumb to understand how claiming works when there's the obvious town motivation that I don't want to fucking claim unnecessarily. So yeah you can lynch me here as town and feel like a fucking idiot then play me again when I'm scum and lose like an idiot because no one on this site cares about the game enough to actually learn how to play it. Perfectly fine policy lynch to tell you to grow up.

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If you don't even have enough respect for me to know that I would know how my claim would go off as scum or to know that you wouldn't be fucking wagoning me here if I were scum, why would you think that you're good enough to lynch me?
It's downright arrogant and stupid. It's like if this were chess and you challenged a grandmaster expecting to win because you were going to 'keep in mind' that they know shit that you don't. Fuck no.
No one in this game who is town has anything remotely close to the ability to detect me as scum and no one period has the ability to lynch me. You wouldn't challenge a chess grandmaster and expect to win off of the power of -believing in yourself- but never taking a fucking minute to learn the game of chess so why are you sitting here trying to vote me?

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I don't think we should play together if you can't help but scumread me in every game. Sorry if I made the game unpleasant for you.

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I'm not scum, I wouldn't hit this breaking point as scum. I just want this game over. It's basically over. One of the three goes down the dominoes will fall. Can we just please fucking end this game.

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How would the mods know Saix doesn't actually scumread you, and why would they reveal that information to you if they did know?

I'm not talking about the game mods nor this specific instance.
I don't know what else to say right now. I feel like you're just policy scumreading me and would always lynch me in a 1v1 with anyone. Lots of people do, that's why I avoid 1v1s as scum. I don't think this is going to work.
I've had Saix and Xaldin sitting on me for ogi and [potentially legitimate scumread just really bad] reasons and I don't feel like anyone is entitled to scumread me without getting called out for it.
I was probably meaner than I needed to be and that's definitely a function of the fact that I do not want to be playing mafia at all right now but I don't see how else I deal with this situation.

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I feel like on some level you feel like you're entitled to me lying down and getting lynched because you scumread me and that's not at all true nor is that how this game works.
Lynching me is supposed to be impossible and I need to do what I do to keep things that way. I can be a lot nicer when you and others aren't scumreading me for OGI reasons.

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I don't hate you if that helps, nor do I specifically think that you're an idiot. I just don't feel like any sort of reason will get through to you because you're not voting me based on reason, so I try other things.

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I could give you a defense that isn't "I don't make mistakes as scum" if there was a case that I knew of that wasn't literally I just made a bunch of plays that would be absolutely terrible if I were scum.

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Because I misread my role PM as town presumably.

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Janna tends to lose 1v1s but if a really good Janna player plays in a low elo game they will still be able to win without having to win any 1v1s.

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Yes, but that's the thing: I wouldn't be in a bad spot if I were scum. I didn't have to CC shit I don't have to pick a 1v1 with someone who, if town, is going to get me autolynched on their flip.
It's like with the Janna analogy if through good play I get to a late game teamfight and we're way ahead so we win. Then someone says 'oh you only won because you were way ahead (not in a bad spot).'
Well, that's the point of being good at scum: you don't get into bad spots unless you're doing it strategically.

[II Xigbar]

...no?

[II Xigbar]

I mean you could argue with my current antipathy towards mafia that I wanted out of the game enough to CC him. But if I were going to CC him with the intention of trading 1 for 1 I'd claim something that would autowin the CC.

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I didn't accuse both of them of doing so. Just Saix, because he has said as much in thread.

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I'll say more about it after game.

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Then leane don't play against your win condition.

No I nightkilled you because you didn't make sense as scum with the person I wanted to lynch. On phone so no detailed response till far later.

[II Xigbar]

I'm plenty non toxic when people aren't trying to PL me for being me.

There's no comparison between Saix's treatment of my slot and my telling Mastina they should trust my reads either.

Feel free to self vote and stop trying to win a game that all of you have known was over for days.

[II Xigbar]

I don't respect you not at all either

I don't fear anyone enough to do what you're implying I'm doing.

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Understand that I'm being a lot more ruthless than I need to be because I need to make up for lost time. I don't expect anyone to find the remaining balance of this day phase fun but it's a necessary evil to lynch you and get the game over with. You would go tomorrow of that I'm sure but I doubt town lynches Zex when they're that far chronologically removed from my push on her

As for Zexion: yeah but she's scum so

I am sorry I affected you in that way but I had no way of knowing that was your reaction. I would not have done something like that knowingly no matter how it affected my wincon.

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I wasn't going to.

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Vexen's emotions being genuine doesn't mean that he's town though. None of his feelings were anything that were even remotely contingent on being town.

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Really want to just lynch Vexen. Axel is the least confident link in the 3.

I mean I'll do it if the alternative is being lynched myself but I'm not willing to bet the game on him flipping scum like I am with Vexen.

[II Xigbar]

Xemnas is confirmed town

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It's in the OP

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Or you're just bad

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Well you're scumreading me

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You're also voting me

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Lex can you not be voting me

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Yeah, not going to vote Axel when he's voting Vexen. Still think he's probably scum but not happening.

VOTE: Vexen

[II Xigbar]

No, we're not voting Marluxia. Just stop.

[II Xigbar]

I'm cashing in every bit of vested trust in my reads on this vexen read. Act like I have a guilty on Vexen and treat this as a 1v1.

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Also, Marluxia is town. Scum doesn't say what they said about only playing it because I'm still in it. Scum doesn't openly sheep me for as long as they have.
I've seen this behaviour so many times before and it's always, ALWAYS from town. Scum do sheep me but they do it different, they try to add their own shit to it because they feel like it looks better.
There's a reason when I get nightkilled the people who voted with me often get mislynched and it's because no one else knows how to interpret this shit.

Me or Vexen. No compromises. I would sooner be lynched than allow a dumb lynch, regardless of the power of my role.

[II Xigbar]

Vexen wagon is shit

No, you are. Or you're scum in place of Axel.

[II Xigbar]

Like there you go I just blew one of the number one tells that I've used for years. You can get on my good side with it now.
The people completely checking out of the game and sheeping me are

always

town. I have never seen an exception.
Not the people hiding behind me. The people who get too lazy to do shit and just follow me. That's one of the main reasons I have townreads on people who don't deserve it and end up being right.

I know what scum sheeping me looks like and I know what town sheeping me looks like and Marluxia is town 100% of the time here.

[II Xigbar]

Like I don't fucking care why you vote Vexen at this point. Vote him because you think I'm toxic and you want the game to end, vote him because Xemnas thought he was scum, vote him because I'm saying he's scum, vote him because you think that he's pretending to take shit personally. I think he is taking shit personally, that means nothing about his alignment.

He needs dead. If I hadn't been gone from the game for as long as I had everyone besides Saix/Xaldin, one of whom is playing against wincon and the other of whom is bad, would still hard townread me. You're FAEing me so hard when you act like your read on me should change because I lurked during a period where I was only active on site for a single thread in Speakeasy. Demyx your predecessor kept saying Vexen was scum, man the fuck up and sheep your predecessor.

[II Xigbar]

Please. There's a reason my vig record is as high as it is. There's a reason I get away with fakeclaiming guilties when other people don't. I know how much confidence to have in my reads and I have a great deal of confidence in this one.

[II Xigbar]

Well, I get that.

But this is a space where I think one would be justified given how hard lynching Vexen is despite how objectively scummy he is.

[II Xigbar]

I don't like them. Theyr'e a necessary evil.

[II Xigbar]

Am I being flashwagoned or is anything interesting happening? If not can I just blindly sheep Xigbar?

Lol how do you go from can I sheep xig to pointless vote on a vanity wagon with a case from me that only you of all people in this game understand the significance of?

[II Xigbar]

Vote him please

[II Xigbar]

I was also instrumental in not lynching you twice.

So if you're town my reads are at least somewhat decent even if my tunnel on larxene was bad.

Why don't you judge me by this flip rather than a last minute wagon change because people kept making claims I didn't want to Lynch?

[II Xigbar]

Except you're not and your vote has nothing to do with the game

[II Xigbar]

There is no way in hell townxigbar gets this lynch on me through. Look carefully at what he's posted today. We spent a week waiting for a case that a ten year old could have typed in 20 minutes. He has literally not referenced a single piece of it since. He's calling me scum while shouting about how everyone owes him the trust to lynch me and other people are voting him cause they don't like him. This isn't about popularity, but instead of arguing why I'm scum he's doing his absolute best to ensure it is.

I owe this a lengthy response but the tl;dr is that there's a lot more to what I do than just 'make this about popularity' and while I understand that it feels that way I think my play here is far more elegant than sitting there throwing wallposts at people until they start agreeing with me. It's actually not about reputation or popularity at all: I do the same things with people who don't know me.

That said in terms of general appeal it's kind of obvious that you don't have anything close to a leg to stand on with your scumread on me that came out of bumfuck nowhere so.

Lol yes pick on the player still reading excellent idea. /s

You can't hide behind still reading when you have your vote on the town half of a 1v1.

[II Xigbar]

Okay then fight me to the death let's go

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Holy shit it took me WAY too long to figure out who you were.

[II Xigbar]

Because I'm trying to Lynch confscum

There is no confscum.
If there was we wouldn't be having this discussion friendo

Like I thought it when I got here but I guess I totally forgot about it?

[II Xigbar]

Demyx could be scum actually. But, like. Ergh.

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Tbh being a stick in the mud on an inevitable scum lynch is absolutely something Demyx would do, even if their partner was bussing. Just to stick it to me.

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Yeah, I honestly don't think it's a good idea to bring any of the future up because it's just going to make this lynch harder.

[II Xigbar]

ROXAS, LUXORD: you're up.

[II Xigbar]

Also, Luxord: you are neighbourizing me tonight. I consulted with the mod and since you target at the end of the day rather than end of the night you will be able to target me on a pseudo-commute night.
Would like to be able to give thoughts before the inevitable strongman if we aren't lynching them today.

[II Xigbar]

Sure

[II Xigbar]

Don't think that I'd quite what they said.

But okay: why do you think the right play here is to try to force a NL or my own Lynch over Vexens if you apparently townread me?

[II Xigbar]

It is unreasonable bordering on ridiculous to suggest that your marluxia vote is at all relevant or that by voting it as opposed to Vexen you aren't implicitly raising the odds that I or a NL happens over Vexen

[II Xigbar]

Can we just lynch Vexen now lol

[II Xigbar]

Would really rather not as Lux/Xig are like huge scumreads for me.

Well at least I know luxord is town.

[II Xigbar]

YOU ARE DEATHTUNNELING ME FOR THE ABSOLUTE WORST REASONS IMAGINABLE AND I AM TOWN. SO NO BABY CAN GO THANKS.

[II Xigbar]

I was already townreading you but that makes me want to write your slot off as potential scum.

[II Xigbar]

I was already townreading you but that makes me want to write your slot off as potential scum.

Explain

I can't do it justice without spending a long time going into their meta and the quality of their reads in a way that would be inappropriate in the context of this game.

[II Xigbar]

Lex, we're not discrediting you because of your username, we're discrediting you because of your reads in this game.

[II Xigbar]

I would gladly sheep you if you had a good push. No one is automatically refusing to listen to you because of your username in the anon game. We're just trying to marginalize you because you're pushing on two town.

[II Xigbar]

Roxas I hope you'll be around in the next hour or so. I wanted to know your thoughts about Demyx 1.0.

Xigbar
Luxord
Roxas
Vexen

It's probably too late and until recently it seemed impossible and maybe it still is.

But I would really like it if at least we five could agree on a lynch.

We won't get Vez to agree to any scum lynches.

[II Xigbar]

Also the marluxia pushes are gross

Zex and demyx are sitting off the wagon because they don't want it going through yeah so let's Lynch Vexen.

[II Xigbar]

I don't know a better way of playing this game. Sorry, regardless of your alignment. @zex

[II Xigbar]

If I'm wrong here town is going to lose anyways. I don't see the point of hedging on me being wrong when it's way more likely scum are simply avoiding bussing

[II Xigbar]

Also Vexen Lynch has had infinitely more resistance than any other wagons.

[II Xigbar]

Wagoning Vexen was too hard. We will never Lynch him if we don't today,not with two votws permanently locked on me.

[II Xigbar]

Id wagon demyx but even if he flips scum I don't think you guys will ever end up lynching Vexen. I need to be alive for this.

[II Xigbar]

Because I'm a shit person who values winning too much I guess.

[II Xigbar]

I wasn't saying that you were. I was saying it myself.

[II Xigbar]

I should have just replaced out day one.

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My stance is that Demyx never plays in this way unless he's either very sure I'm scum or he's scum. He clearly doesn't think that I'm scum, so I'm going to go with the latter. Worst case scenario, fine lynching him.
I still feel very confident that Axel is scum. Nothing that has happened changed my read there. His knee jerk turn on me for my claim still makes no sense and there's still everything I've hated that he did b4 that.

Xemnas town
Xigbar town
Saix town but
Luxord town
Marluxia town

Roxas probtown. Don't like how they've been completely gone and avoiding taking a stance here. Hurts my townread. Afaik they haven't been absentee sitewide unless Roxas isn't actually who they pretend to be

Axel's somewhere weird in the middle. He could still be scum but he's voting Vexen so.
Lex I don't actually know. I want to scumread them for how badly they're playing but I can't prove anything so.
Xaldin has some interesting interactions with Axel that make me feel pretty confident that the rolestopper half of Vexen's claim is genuine. Doesn't make them town though.

Zex I really, really wish was town. I don't think that she is though.

Demyx is scummy

Vexen can die.

[II Xigbar]

For me to entirely write off meta from my play would constitute playing against my wincondition by ignoring a very large dynamic via which I can read people.

[II Xigbar]

Okay, would you prefer 'Demyx is obviously scum for X reason that I am not permitted to say anything about'?

Because I think that creates far less healthy a game environment than me giving the general gist of my feelings about slots without giving identities away.

[II Xigbar]

Sure. You're refusing to push scum Vexen, attempting to derail to a quicklynch on Marluxia which is a weak slot but objectively town, and completely ignoring and refusing to engage with my reads in order to avoid scum dying today.

[II Xigbar]

Also seen no explanation for why you're townreading myself or Vexen: you've only criticized me on stylistic notes that you should be used to and that have absolutely nothing to do with the correctness of my read.
You've basically said 'this is a shit way of pushing someone so ignore his read' which is an abhorrent way to defend someone.

[II Xigbar]

You're certainly not supposed to completely fucking ignore them.

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lol

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Mafia is a shit game why am I playing it

[II Xigbar]

No, you're not.

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Then Zexion claims scum or votes him.

[II Xigbar]

Marluxia is one of my top townreads and that would mean something to you if you were town.

[II Xigbar]

My stance is that Demyx never plays in this way unless he's either very sure I'm scum or he's scum. He clearly doesn't think that I'm scum, so I'm going to go with the latter. Worst case scenario, fine lynching him.
I still feel very confident that Axel is scum. Nothing that has happened changed my read there. His knee jerk turn on me for my claim still makes no sense and there's still everything I've hated that he did b4 that.

Xemnas town
Xigbar town
Saix town but
Luxord town
Marluxia town

Roxas probtown. Don't like how they've been completely gone and avoiding taking a stance here. Hurts my townread. Afaik they haven't been absentee sitewide unless Roxas isn't actually who they pretend to be

Axel's somewhere weird in the middle. He could still be scum but he's voting Vexen so.
Lex I don't actually know. I want to scumread them for how badly they're playing but I can't prove anything so.
Xaldin has some interesting interactions with Axel that make me feel pretty confident that the rolestopper half of Vexen's claim is genuine. Doesn't make them town though.

Zex I really, really wish was town. I don't think that she is though.

Demyx is scummy

Vexen can die.

[II Xigbar]

Demyx is transparently scum trying to let the clock run out and NL so that they can kill me and hope that town doesn't pull its shit together without me, which it probably won't.

[II Xigbar]

Wow.
What happened to your reads?

Cute.


Nowhere does that say that is ur top townread

I mean you're open wolfing at this point, you're making no pretense of being town.

[II Xigbar]

Like I said one of my top townreads. They're in my top townread category. Then you respond by saying nowhere does that say that is ur top townread, which isn't what I said, when I did in fact put them as top townread.

[II Xigbar]

Marluxia is one of my top townreads

and that would mean something to you if you were town.

[II Xigbar]

You admitted to being wrong and that I said something that I didn't say when I actually said something else.

[II Xigbar]

I mean, that is what you're doing. I'm not really sure what there is to discuss.

[II Xigbar]

Nah this is exactly what you would and are doing.

[II Xigbar]

If it's the super easy answer in Demyx/Zexion/Vexen then we'll know when no one hammers him and all 3 of you get consecutively lynched for it.

[II Xigbar]

What if I told you that I didn't wear deodorant today and my armpits kinda smell?

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This is me open roaching btw

[II Xigbar]

Still phoneposting. Don't remember a single case on marluxia. If there is one, link it. Otherwise, get back onto a real wagon.

I'm glad somebody understands what he's doing. Cause it sure as hell isnt me.

Perot fucking ninjas

What if I told u it's either u of marlexia and it's more likely you every second that marlexia doesn't have votes?

I mean that 1/2 pairing is true but that's literally the single worst [1 of x or y] that I have seen this year. Like why even.

[II Xigbar]

What if I told you it's either steal ivory or stay poor and i'm more likely to steal ivory every second that Vexen doesn't get votes?

[II Xigbar]

This is me open poaching btw

[II Xigbar]

I-I love you too Demyx senpai~