Mini 1949: NFL Mafia - Day 1

[MathBlade]

Wouldn't be me if I didn't have my Saints

I draft the New Orleans Saints

Ohhh Drixx...

VOTE: Drixx

What you get for picking in my division.

[MathBlade]

vote: Mathblade

Honestly I know nothing about footballs, but from what Chess says I chose a good team?

Not really lol

They usually either shit things up or get like 50/50. Haven't been to the playoffs in a loooong time

@Army I know a lot but still picked my favorite team as I couldn't ever imagine betraying the Saints.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: chesskid3

For a useless post.

What is going to be really helpful is each night we can do the math ourselves and find out who took what.

[MathBlade]

So you don't think scum would aim for the best distribution of getting powers?

Have you watched football? Points are nighon impossible to predict.

There's an entire wing devoted to gambling on it. The house always makes money because it is unpredictable.

[MathBlade]

Hell I would link to it but I think that is against site rules.

[MathBlade]

What is going to be really helpful is each night we can do the math ourselves and find out who took what.

FYI the powers awarded aren't going to be made public.

Well aware. First post says so.

But we can figure out who got powers.

[MathBlade]

For example

If Player A, B, C follow the list then they would get powers. Everyone just be forced to take the 1x active and say what you did.

Scum will know who has a PR so saving it would be incredibly risky.

[MathBlade]

Setup is 10:3

So in worst case scenario

8:3
6:3
4:3
3:3

5 days

Best case scenario
9:2
8:1
6:1
4:1
3:1

In other words roughly 5 days in the game.

[MathBlade]

There's an entire wing devoted to gambling on it. The house always makes money because it is unpredictable.

um

the house makes money because it's extremely difficult to pick winners

not which offenses are going to score the most points

Nah Patriots are just like everyone else.

Sometimes they have good days others not.

[MathBlade]

Lol then why aren't you a millionaire?

Spread is a horribly evil construct.

We're just gonna lynch the scums and make sure everyone uses a townie PR and taking things like strongman etc are a scum claim.

[MathBlade]

And since every person should use the power the night they get it zero reason not to claim. Since scum will know who got a PR anyway.

So if something funky happens with your results we know scum is in the other two people.

[MathBlade]

Then we just keep updating the list ourselves here based on claims.

[MathBlade]

Gotta go to work but wham bam thank you ma'am.

[MathBlade]

And if anyone disobeys this list and doesn't claim or takes a passive rolecop shoots to the top of the list to verify it but really we should only do actives then everyone is VT during the day.

[MathBlade]

Yes I break the game and you vote me because "illogical" without explaining why.

Everyone should either agree with my strategy or disagree and say why.
IMHO it just makes scum super easy to catch and should be the unified approach but it doesn't work unless we all agree.

[MathBlade]

Im still talking about your dumbass or scumass comment that breakung people into low power offense losing team and good high power offenses teams is not helpful

I didnt read your postvomit after that but I also disagree with everything being planned in thread

Oh I am not talking planned on thread.

Everything here is 1 shot. I am saying whoever gets the power uses it that night then immediately claims results.

We update the list.

[MathBlade]

And it isn't helpful.

Teams predicted to sweep or do damn good in the season are now 0-2. And vice versa.

Hell the Raiders are good this year. The Raiders!

I maintain that trying to predict the unpredictable is silly and just scumhunt.

[MathBlade]

And in case you all missed it.

VOTE: chesskid3

[MathBlade]

Someone who knows this guy pls update if hes dumb or not.

hes got math in his name so I'd lean not but then a pi avatar is pretty basic so

Wow

1) I have a math degree
2) I have won a poker tournament
3) I know people who work in the gambling industry for a living

Seriously. If you think I am dumb explain why getting a power instantly using it and keeping onesself accountable is stupid.

Show everyone my stupid play.

Because I assure you as a computer programmer I am not stupid and you're sigfaulting hard, since you can't be bothered to read pronoun fields.

[MathBlade]

In computing, a segmentation fault (often shortened to segfault) or access violation is a fault, or failure condition, raised by hardware with memory protection, notifying an operating system (OS) the software has attempted to access a restricted area of memory (a memory access violation).

[MathBlade]

One very obvious problem with your "plan" is that it tells scum how to always net PRs.
Which is a really stupid thing to do.

lol I didn't say anything scum wouldn't know anyway.

Anyone has access to the NFL scores and standings.

Assuming scum are idiots makes an ass of you and me.

[MathBlade]

Saints are my favorite team and I am better unburdened by a PR anyway.

[MathBlade]

Can i just say that giving us your resume isn't helping in the slightest. Having a degree, especially in math doesn't make you smarter than anyone here. Also poker is ALOT of luck mixed with strategy. So if you're done stroking your ego can we move on.

I am not saying it makes me smarter.

I am saying it makes me not stupid.

Thinking my play is stupid fine. That's one thing.

But calling me stupid I do rebel against.

[MathBlade]

1 a :slow of mind :obtuse
b :given to unintelligent decisions or acts :acting in an unintelligent or careless manner
c :lacking intelligence or reason :brutish
2 :dulled in feeling or sensation :torpid still stupid from the sedative
3 :marked by or resulting from unreasoned thinking or acting :senseless a stupid decision
4 a :lacking interest or point a stupid event
b :vexatious, exasperating the stupid car won't start
— stupidly adverb
— stupidness noun


From MeriamWebster

Slow of mind >> Not possible as I graduated with a degree.
Given to unintelligent decisions >> My decisions are well thoughout with the explanations here which no one is attacking instead baseless insults
Lacking in intelligence or reason >> Pretty sure I have a brain and am making cases. (If you come to California and get your medical license you are welcome to do brain surgery to see my brain.)
Marked by or resulting from unreasoned thinking or acting: Since I cannot control the circumstances of my birth that surely is not what you are going for therefore I cannot be stupid.
Lacking interest or point >> Just say I am boring then surely not what you meant.
Vexatious exasperating >> I may be annoying to scum but surely this is not what you meant

Since no one here qualifies to be stupid as you mean it expand your vocabulary and remove that language

If you mean my points are bad say so and state why.

Otherwise you are merely trying to get a rise. Substance needed.

Y'all are better players than that.

[MathBlade]

This conversation amuses me. I'll continue it. Your sense of humor is at least on point. (Maybe unintentionally so .)

There's no way you thought that there was noone who graduated with you that wasn't stupid.

I thought maybe they didn't learn the information and figured out a way to graduate instead but that takes different smarts.

[MathBlade]

Did you seriously just give us the complete definition of stupid?
I'm literally just saying that this is mafia not some math problem with a formula to get an answer that is the answer no matter what

I agree not every Mafia game can.

However you're dodging the question?

Scum are going to know which town have PRs.

The PRs are all one shot.

Why not just use and claim each night to keep scum accountable?

[MathBlade]

So the aints and the vikings want some of this?

Your S key is broken.

You scum with chesskid?

[MathBlade]

And in case you all missed it.

VOTE: chesskid3

Please don't vote twice in a row for the same person.

Noted sorry.

[MathBlade]

So the aints and the vikings want some of this?

Your S key is broken.

You scum with chesskid?

Nope. My "S" key works just fine. The New Orleans aints are 0-2 and when those aints, go marching in, to BoA Stadium on Sunday, they're gonna get mauled by the Panthers and drop to 0-3. And then it's time to hope to be the first team since the '98 Bills to start 0-3 and make the playoffs. Not my fault you picked the aints.

And no I'm not scum, but I'm pretty sure you are.

Your attempt to force people to play a certain way with the claim that it breaks the game ... that smells a bit. The thing is: the scum WILL be able to figure out who is taking a role, but not WHAT those people take. You are arguing that we should just fully inform scum for no cost to them. That doesn't really seem smart to me. Especially with PGO on the list, for example. There's absolutely no reason to tell scum what they have to play around and when.

No one should be taking PGO. That is a scummy role to avoid investigatives.

The reason we claim stuff like this and only allow protown abilities to be claimed is to force scum to not take antitown abilities like strongman or ninja. Since they are all one shot then just use and claim. And if anyone takes roleblocker/Jailkeeper they'd be scum. It limits scum a fuck ton and gives us all the upsides of the powers

There is like no downside. I don't understand why you're making this hard.

[MathBlade]

Your attempt to force people to play a certain way with the claim that it breaks the game ... that smells a bit. The thing is: the scum WILL be able to figure out who is taking a role, but not WHAT those people take. You are arguing that we should just fully inform scum for no cost to them. That doesn't really seem smart to me. Especially with PGO on the list, for example. There's absolutely no reason to tell scum what they have to play around and when.

What about the investigative effects?
His plan is generally pure pro-town there, and the only adjustment you would need is people claiming 'nothing to report' the next Day after their power being awarded to cover useful abilities that require scum action.

Also, with PGO, and the proliferation of targeting powers town could get, there probably is an honest discussion to be had that it would be pro-town to reveal that role if gained. I'm not sure I agree with it, but I'd hardly say it's cut and dry either.

Why is it all so clear to you that it is not only a bad plan, but a scummy one?

It's simple. Through the game we should never need more than 15 powers unless something goes really really weird. We just make a list of the 15 powers people are allowed to choose from and outside of that is a scum claim.

[MathBlade]

Mafia is ultimately a game about information. Scum are already the informed minority to begin with. Giving them additional info for free is silly, and mathblade is a better player than that. They dressed it up real nice and made it seem like a "game break", but when you think about it ... it's not actually a game break at all, and I can think of more situations where following it is bad than good.

If it were some other player I might not feel that it's scummy, but I just have higher expectations of mathblade.

This isn't additional info though.
If you are a cop then instantly claiming your innocent/guilty helps Town. There is no reason to wait.
If you are a tracker then saying who didn't perform the kill is good.
Similarly if you pick Watcher and watch the towniest of the other PRs then see someone kill them or you can report scum took ninja previously.

Scum are going to know who the PRs were and outing what you took prevents doubling up.

[MathBlade]

ROLES

1X Active

Cop
Gunsmith
Doctor
Babysitter
Rolecop (gets all current roles)
Friendly Neighbor
Gladiator
Tracker
Watcher
Rolestopper
Coroner
Day vig! - can't be used in lylo
Double voter - one day, can't be used in mylo/lylo
Lie Detector

Other

Innocent Child (you choose when to reveal)

Setup

The game is 10:3. Mafia may talk during pregame and nights only unless a power role gives them day talk.


There we go the 15 things that imho are protown.

[MathBlade]

Anyone picking outside those 15 better have a damn good reason.

[MathBlade]

Uh scum can just lie about what they picked

Assume worse case scenario scum lie about an investigative.

They have to tell us the truth about said investigative or they will be outed. If they tell us the truth about the investigative then it is like we had it all along.

Assume scum lie about taking a non investigative like doctor. Then we know scum didn't want to kill said person.

Like scum still have to tell the truth.

[MathBlade]

This is why rapid Open claims on Day Open work. They don't give scum a chance to come up with a believable lie.

[MathBlade]

They do but they have to match the other people's actions.

[MathBlade]

E.g. Framer,ninja, and strongman all become useless because they don't know when a protective role or tracker exists.

[MathBlade]

Talking strategy is generating loads of content and thoughts and things players/scum can't back down from.

Simple don't lie.

Your three reasons are I am scum. I have to protect scum buddy A. I have to protect scum buddy B.

And I am not preaching merely discussing.

If you want the subject changed generate actual content.

[MathBlade]

Rules were revised to address NFL game ties, and ties in our rankings. Thanks to Titus for pointing out the omission.

Titus always the rules lawyer ....

Hey wait a minute lol

Love ya sis.

Positive lawyer jokes World needs them!

[MathBlade]

I will make it even easier chesskid:

What do you think of people's opinions so far?

See content it it easy.

For example townread on Army for me because they are thinking about things and providing responses that make sense. I disagree but they are interacting with the thread.

[MathBlade]

.... This isn't a competition of how crappy at mafia you can be people.

Lying to Town is almost always bad. Don't sink to the levels of scum.

[MathBlade]

If someone didn't claim what they picked instantly it isn't lying its a strategy. Not saying it isn't the same as lying. But there are times where town might need to lie. For example hypo(which i absolutely despise when its done poorly). But that doesn't really have much to do with this . There are probably better examples but i was trying to be concise

If you're in point where Town needs to lie then you're in a bad point already.

[MathBlade]

We have a good clean slate. Dramonic is voting me because he disagrees on strategy. Disagreeing on strategy is not lying.

Claiming the powers after their use ensures no duplicates.

We have to be able to communicate in order to succeed here.

[MathBlade]

I agree. It's rare. It's so rare it shouldn't be accounted for.

Allowing bad play has become a bad thing I want to stop.

[MathBlade]

I agree. It's rare. It's so rare it shouldn't be accounted for.

Allowing bad play has become a bad thing I want to stop.

What you're suggesting doesnt produce accountability, it gives scum complete control over which roles they can pick AND which role they can deny from town without having to take them by lying.
It's just that basic.
And I'm not voting because we disagree on strategy, I'm voting because either you're scum trying to push a blatantly detrimental play, or are so bad town that I want to cull you immediately to prevent you from sinking the entire town.

Except I already explained they can't do that.

Whatever.

Apparently people don't understand simple accountability and honesty here and would rather let scum trounce.

Scum is chesskid and

maybe

Drixx and probably a lurker.

[MathBlade]

If we are forced to claim our role usage that will limit our option to keep our power.

...It is 1 shot and scum will know you have a power.

You'd be saving it because.....?

[MathBlade]

If town is leading it might be more optimal to use it later if we are not in such a good situation, etc.

If Town is leading huh?

VOTE: TwoInAMillion

[MathBlade]

If Town is leading implies scum are behind. The We in your sentence implies you are scum.

[MathBlade]

If town is leading it might be more optimal to use it later if we(scum) are not in such a good situation, etc.

It is a direct contrast.

[MathBlade]

Unvote

Vote: gerryoat

I'm going to leave this here actually. Still weirded out by the whole "lets lynch one of chesskid or desperado for CK's logic which I added nothing to but wormed my way into" thing.

Gerry if scum will be obvious to me later.

I would much rather you or Two In A Million

VOTE: Chesskid3

[MathBlade]

@Dram. I have been over why scum can't lie. You're just repeating the same things just stop. No one wants to do the smart thing so no point in beating a dead horse.

And an iC should claim immediately and take the bullet so investigatives get to do their thing. That is actually a good strategy.

[MathBlade]

The point isn't to live but to remove scum.

[MathBlade]

Will read later sore as fuck from helping friends move.

[MathBlade]

day ends in two fucking days can we lynch assembly

Day ends in two days can we just lynch chesskid?

[MathBlade]

I'm torn on what to think of mathblade to be honest. I'm ok lynching within the weak teams, but the fact that nobody has really taken much of a stance on it besides the guy who parroted me and one other person makes me uneasy that it's an all town block and it's a bad road to go down.

Thor make me feel better

People not addressing plans is an interesting question if you want to apply scum/town vibes o it, but I'm not sure I'm smart enough to read them.
Your plan was ignored (which you're taking it as being pro-town as, presumably, it's good enough scum are scared to attack it)
Math's plan was assaulted aggressively and ongoing (on, as far as I can tell since Dram is actually the frontrunner for the logic against it, a basis that scum may lie if forced to claim)
I got nothing brilliant on either take, as I actually am currently vibing both of you, and both plans, as pro-town. I don't think it's a gimmee read though.
If you like you plan, go for it, just because other people don't agree changes very little as a strategy for it on Day 1, since by definition we'll hit in one of the groups

But again, there is nothing that stops scum from saying they grabbed low accountability roles like jk, doc, watcher and claiming to target irrelevant players, while actually taking something else.

Sure...and?

Claiming to have protected someone both doesn't give any information to the town and it removes the role from the town's perceived list, giving scum both a safety vs doc and a free role (whatever they actually picked) for use later. Same thing for "I copped the dead guy" or "I watched this person nobody visited".
There's no information there AND we (think) the role just went to waste. Because these things can and WILL most likely happen with town players as well. There's a 90% chance (not actual stats) that if anyone in the town grabs doc, he's gonna fail his protection. There's a good chance that someone grabbing watcher won't see anything.
We can't just lynch these players "just in case"

Math's plan does not involve that - so you're arguing against a straw man here.

I would much, MUCH rather keep scum in the dark as to what roles are taken and gamble on the chance they'll lose their pick if their team wins by trying to grab something that's already gone.

Since, theoretically, town should have more chances at getting roles (and thus missing them) - this seems to benefit scum more than town, yeah?

UNLESS your role has very obvious immediate utility (like a cop result on a living player), I think claiming is dumb, and even in those cases I think it's much better to leave the role open to wifom and just say "I have an inno on X" without specifying the nature of the inno.

Which is a big part of Math's plan that I like, and I still don't get the explosion against it, since he's already advocating some of the best obvious play for a big chunk of the roles.

Of course that only works if your inno is a real inno and not "I tracked that player and they didnt visit". That's not a real inno (haven't check the role list to see what can provide real innos besides cop)

Eh, failed tracks are still info.

Also it's obvious but immediate claiming also kills roles like IC <_<

I would dare say that the people who should take the IC role are exactly the sorts of players who should use it immediately.

Looking at your rebuttal I see;
"Scum might lie"
"Straw Man"
"Some mild agreement"

At that stage, I can get you generally disagreeing with the plan.
But what do you think about people somehow translating it into "scum plan!"
Because it's really not, and even if you don't like the plan it's still generally a pro-town basic mindset and shows some goals to game solve and help town more than to aid scum machinations.
I find the assault on the plan overwrought and would happily wager scum were in on that pool.
What do you think?

The entire plan by chesskid was not attacked because chesskid is scum.

I shoot it down with one post and boom it is done.

However even after I say "whatever drop it" (paraphrase) dramonic still goes on about it and so do you.

So chesskid + (dramonic/Thor)?

[MathBlade]

Math "my body is a vessel for my superbrain" Blade

Considering how sore my body is that might just be a thing.

[MathBlade]

Btw i was mostly against maths plan because he's like "if you pick a role benefiting scum or passive I'll take it as a scum claim" and that to me is bs

Oh I still will. That part isn't a debate. Take ninja or strongman and I will tunnel you to kingdom come.

[MathBlade]

Like ... at this point I kind of want to lynch among the pool of people taking snarky swings at Mathblade. Just on policy.

Why? I think differently. I kinda expect to get votes and told my thinking is silly. I just don't want the personal attacks.

[MathBlade]

I am capable of acknowledging antitown when it is shoved in my face.

VOTE: Dramonic

And if assemblerotws is scum so is dramonic.

[MathBlade]

Someone who knows this guy pls update if hes dumb or not.

hes got math in his name so I'd lean not but then a pi avatar is pretty basic so

Example.

Attack the play not the player.

nancy and myself have a problem with ableist language on the site and I get called stupid/retarded etc in real life. I don't want it here.

[MathBlade]

If the Raiders and Cowboys don't reach an extreme, TIAM will get the top PR slot, Math and Thor tie for second, and dramonic gets the last.

@Mod

Assume the above statement is true: Then how would you pick between myself and Thor?

[MathBlade]

Like I said nfl unpredictable.

Saints aren't the aints.

Tired from moving will read tomorrow at some point.

[MathBlade]

Well to whoever is still paying attention good game I guess. Sucks it got mod abandoned.

Does anyone want to scum claim?

[MathBlade]

So not you?
That makes me feel better about my reads.
Of course it's Day 1, so I probably would have rampage lynched you Day 3 or something if we were both still alive

Yeah not me.

And I generally am not NK'd almost any game I am in lol

[MathBlade]

If the game ended when I actually had a good read AND followed it up well I am going to have sads.

[MathBlade]

So chesskid, mozamis, and army?

[MathBlade]

Maybe Drixx?