Mini 520 - Triumvirate Mafia - ABANDONED
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Sir Tornado wrote:
Well, it isn't scummy, actually. I voted you to drill it into you that random votingsomestrangeflea wrote:
Considering the fact that I have started every game with anSir Tornado wrote:Unvote
Vote SSF
Voting by dice is bad. It doesn't give any actual information.identicalpost, AFAICR, how is this scummy?using a diceis bad (although since you do it every game, it is not scummy, especially for you)
The logic behind dice voting being bad is, that if you random vote without a dice, all we know that it is an apparent random vote, which may, or may not indeed be random. That is information. However, when you vote using a dice, weknowwhy you voted so and so player. You did it because the dice told you to. It doesn't give the town any information.
For more details, read the first couple of pages of newbie 476 where mith explains this in a much better way.Unvote, Vote: Sir Tornado
Interesting that you get on SSF's case for dice voting but don't even mention me. Trying to distance from your scumbuddy early?
Why shouldn't townies claim? I agree it doesn't do much, but how does it help us for them to refuse to claim? It's the same as claiming anyways. And claims are always wifom, get over it. This game isn't any difference from other games. We have 3 "power roles" that can't prove themselves, it's not really any different from normal mafia. There is always WIFOM possible surrounding claims.Miztef wrote:Basically, the claims become almost worthless in finding out what someone is. It's WIFOM if there is a claim, or if there isn't a claim.
Triumvirate - Almost certainly must claim, unless they are a very good player.
Mafia - can choose to claim or not, completely WIFOM
Townie - really, really shouldn't claim. However, since there is no way (that I know of) to prove triumvirates, they could claim.
I can tell you've really thought about what you'd do as mafia...FaerieLord wrote: Just saying that this completely sucks...completely. If I was mafia, I wouldn't claim using this table so....dum dum dum! NO RESULTSPermanent V/LA.-
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Distancing does not require you to call one scummy. The fact that you are addressing him and questioning his actions is enough. My point is, my vote after your vote on SSF clearly showed that I had not read your post (because I never read the thread before I do my dice vote, I've even done it upon replacing into a large game before). However, you did not even mention me or address my actions, instead focusing your questioning/comments on SSF.Sir Tornado wrote:
That vote was to make a point, not to necessarily call SSF scummy due to his rolling dice (I did say so when I unvoted).Mastermind of Sin wrote: Interesting that you get on SSF's case for dice voting but don't even mention me. Trying to distance from your scumbuddy early?
I wanted to get it across to SSF that using dice to start the game is not a very good idea. The vote on him was to draw his attention to it, because I have found that people pay more attention to what you are saying if you vote them.
Calling that "distancing" from SSF was a bit strange MoS. Why the heck would I specifically say that what he did was not scummy in my next post if I was trying to distance from him?Permanent V/LA.-
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It's not distancing in and of itself, though. But it isSir Tornado wrote:
So, by your logic, if I say Person A is town, but still ask him why he's done something, it is distancing? Because, technically, in doing so, I am:MoS wrote:Distancing does not require you to call one scummy. The fact that you are addressing him and questioning his actions is enough. My point is, my vote after your vote on SSF clearly showed that I had not read your post (because I never read the thread before I do my dice vote, I've even done it upon replacing into a large game before). However, you did not even mention me or address my actions, instead focusing your questioning/comments on SSF.
1) Not calling him scummy
2) Addressing him
3) Questioning his actionspossibledistancing when you take the above action and completely ignore someonewho did the exact same thing you were questioning person A about.Permanent V/LA.-
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You're strawmanning, SirT. This behavior was not exhibited by everyone in the game. I'm saying that it looks weird for you to question one person and completely ignore the other person. At the very least, I would expect you to say something like "this goes for you, too, MoS".Sir Tornado wrote:
So, you want me to give the same ICish gameplay advice to everyone in the same game like a broken record player?MoS wrote:
It's not distancing in and of itself, though. But it is possible distancing when you take the above action and completely ignore someone who did the exact same thing you were questioning person A about.
YuanTi wrote:Perhaps I'll give you a more useful dare.
State whether or not you think MoS is talking crap.
You guys are making this out to be a lot bigger than it really is. It's not like I've said that what SirT did is some end-all scumtell that's going to reveal the scum. However, it was a good place for my vote on page 2 of a game, and it was worth pointing out. The only reason I'm still talking about this is because people are questioning it, and I don't ever let comments about me go unanswered if I can help it.Phate wrote:It's too early to say for sure, but I'd say he's talking crap. I'm waiting to see how he responds to Sir T before placing my vote.Permanent V/LA.-
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Sucks to be you, then.YuanTi wrote:MoS is using the "I don't have to because I've wasted time already excuse."
That never fails to annoy me.
Getting out of the random stage is good. However, I really don't like it when people just decide to say "the random stage is over", like it's some sort of boundary that can be defined, and you can just cut off all random voting at a specific point. I much prefer that people *do* something to get out of random voting, rather than just say it's over and do nothing.Spider Jerusalem wrote:@MoS: I'm not sure how anything scummy can be determined by a lot of people unvoting from the random stage. A whole bunch of one vote here one vote there situations dosen't really get anything done. I think the best idea is to try and get peoples minds out of that stage and into a stage where a vote is placed for some actual reason even if there isn't much to go on. I'd like to hear though how you or anyone else who thinks we can would deduce any scum tells from it, perhaps I'm missing something.
For example, look at me. Instead of just saying "oh, random voting is done!", I actually did something, I made an attack on SirT, and I started a lot of serious discussion.Thatis how you end the random voting stage. It's bullshit to think you can just say it's over. Actions speak louder than words, my friend. Although in this case, words are your actions, I suppose.
And sometimes you *can* pick up scumtells during random voting.
Erm, I never said I was going to drop my argument against SirT. I said that I've done enough that I don't really feel like spearheadingNot much to go on but I'm going toFoS: Mastermind of Sinbecause so far I find that he pushed something on some very fishy logic then after people disagreed dropped the I've put too much into this to do anymore line. However, we don't want to start bandwagoning over something so small, so I'd love to hear some of the more quiet give their points of view.otherarguments at this point in the game. Just because people disagreed with my point against SirT does not mean I think they're right. It's certainly not a strong tell, but it's something, imo.Permanent V/LA.-
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Fair enough, point taken.Spider Jerusalem wrote:
I don't disagree with most of this. However, if you'll note your discussion with SirT started shortly before the large amount of unvotes. In my mind and perhaps in others, that discussion was worthy of the end of random voting whether we agreed with your stance or not. This in addition to the other discussion about claims gave us something in game to discuss and analyze.Mastermind of Sin wrote: Getting out of the random stage is good. However, I really don't like it when people just decide to say "the random stage is over", like it's some sort of boundary that can be defined, and you can just cut off all random voting at a specific point. I much prefer that people *do* something to get out of random voting, rather than just say it's over and do nothing.
For example, look at me. Instead of just saying "oh, random voting is done!", I actually did something, I made an attack on SirT, and I started a lot of serious discussion. That is how you end the random voting stage. It's bullshit to think you can just say it's over. Actions speak louder than words, my friend. Although in this case, words are your actions, I suppose.
I definitely didn't mean to say you thought people disagreeing with you were right, or that you were dropping your argument against SirT completely. Though I do think you may have been trying to change the topic. I could see how I was a little unclear though.Mastermind of Sin wrote: Erm, I never said I was going to drop my argument against SirT. I said that I've done enough that I don't really feel like spearheading other arguments at this point in the game. Just because people disagreed with my point against SirT does not mean I think they're right. It's certainly not a strong tell, but it's something, imo.
I meant that after people disagreed with your point about SirT that you dropped another topic and then backed out of the potential discussion.
The thing is, the topic didn't really exist until I brought it up. ooooh, nvm, I see what you're saying. You mean "dropped" as in "presented", not "dropped" as in "dropped the case". Got it.
*shrug* I was just responding to other people saying there wasn't much to pursue atm.
You can't, really. I just get annoyed when people do that.I thought your lack of an explanation as to why unvoting would be a scum tell as well as what appeared to be a lack of desire to participate in the discussion of that topic seemed a little scummy. It seemed it could be a way to redirect people from looking at your earlier argument against SirT much more and for you to be able to stay out of the new discussion from there on in.
I'll admit that all this is not a particularly strong tell either, but I'd still really like to have you explain how we could decipher a scum tell from a handfull of people unvoting once some minor discussion had started.
Bullshit.Phate wrote:Again, I'll use any witty devices I damn well want to, and if someone doesn't understand, they can ask me to clarify. Also,FoMS: Spider Jerusalemfor being way too agreeable. That always makes me suspicious. Also for his name, which I can't figure out.
Everyone, check out the start of a two-pronged attack from Phate/Miztef.Miztef wrote:@Phate: I don't agree that unvoting = scum. Basically, I felt like moving some stuff forward in this game and didn't like the way/tone you were posted, so I just send a vote out there to see what happens.
I absolutely agree that Spider Jerusalem is looking scummy as well.
He's not really agreeing with the majority. SJ actually put a lot more thought and reasoning into his posts about me than anyone else in this game. He's actually
Agreeing with the majority view here.Spider Jerusalem wrote: Not much to go on but I'm going toFoS: Mastermind of Sinbecause so far I find that he pushed something on some very fishy logic then after people disagreed dropped the I've put too much into this to do anymore line. However, we don't want to start bandwagoning over something so small, so I'd love to hear some of the more quiet give their points of view.useful, as opposed to most of the "majority" that he was "agreeing" with.
This isn't even agreeing at all. SJ is the first person to explain in detail what was wrong with my argument, and he caught something that I hadn't. Just because everyone else unvoted and he speculated on a reason for it does not mean that he is agreeing with the majority. He's the only person to post this logic, he didn't copy what anyone else said.
Again, more agreeing.Spider Jerusalem wrote: I agree that in your specific post there was nothing seriously misleading, and if my statement came off that way I'll clarify. I was trying to speak in a more general tone, largely because I felt you intended a clear response but I have seen posts done that way get muddied up very quickly. Perhaps it's just a difference in opinion but I think it's much clearer to the town as a whole if you avoid the use of witty devices.
I don't disagree with most of this. However, if you'll note your discussion with SirT started shortly before the large amount of unvotes. In my mind and perhaps in others, that discussion was worthy of the end of random voting whether we agreed with your stance or not. This in addition to the other discussion about claims gave us something in game to discuss and analyze.
Agreed.I'llunvote vote: Spider Jerusalemon just these minor tells only because no one else strikes me as scummy.
Also, besides a random vote on me, Spider has not voted on any of his suspicions. To me, being non-committal, especially in an early phase in the game, is scummy because it leaves no real tracks to follow for inspection on later days.
Can I just say that I nearly feel out of my chair laughing at this?Phate wrote:FlyingHawk, SJ, not to call the kettle black, but you guys are new here. And thus it might stand to reason that you'll make mistakes, especially in the area of keeping things hidden if you have them to hide. And it strikes me as interesting that while you've been quiet all game, you both fairly well jump to defend MoS. This might (indeed, probably) be nothing, but I think it's worth mentioning.
*stores away the possibility that there might be a link between flyinghawk, MoS, and SJ*
Phate, regardless of saying that you aren't doing it, you aretotallycalling the kettle black here. Even worse than that, FlyingHawk has been a member of this site since the end ofMay, and he even played mafia elsewhere before joining. So he is definitely *not* new here. And SJ joined this site before you did, Phate, so you have no business acting like you know what you're talking about when it comes to newbies here. That's just ridiculous.Permanent V/LA.-
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This sentence is just fluff. It doesn't actually mean anything, unless you can explain what the point of saying it was.And thus it might stand to reason that you'll make mistakes, especially in the area of keeping things hidden if you have them to hide.
People *do* tend to defend others when they are being attacked with crappy cases.And it strikes me as interesting that while you've been quiet all game, you both fairly well jump to defend MoS. This might (indeed, probably) be nothing, but I think it's worth mentioning.Permanent V/LA.-
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As for myself, I find that if I don't explain something thoroughly, people tend to bullheadedly continue a horrible train of thought and completely fuck the game up.skitzer wrote:People who look scummy to me
MoS-Overexplains a lot. Maybe just overeager, like I said before
SJ-someone said that he was too agreeable. I agree (heh heh, too ironic)
Phate-seems as though he is looking for the opportunity to lynch someone and get to night.
Those are my opinions, not really big on anyone at this point. But dere ya go.
As for SJ, see my post on why he is not being too agreeable.
Agreed on Phate.
This is at least the second time you have said SJ was too agreeablePhate wrote:However, I stand by my original statement - I find you too agreeable. Your points of dissent are always surrounded by things like "I agree with most of this", "I definitely didn't mean to say", and "I could see how I was a little unclear." Perhaps this is just your playstyle, but I don't trust diplomats.sinceI have presented an argument that said he was not being "too agreeable", yet you have completely ignored my argument despite the fact that you quoted most of the rest of the post that this point was addressed in.Permanent V/LA.-
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I think this no lynch wagon is going a little too quickly for me. Any vote that gets 3 agreements in so short a time makes me wary. Many times it's an indication that those people should be looked at. Not that I'm saying everyone on it is scum. Only that it looks a little suspicious. To be honest, I considered No Lynch myself. And rejected it. Time will show if no lynch is the play, but it's not the timeyet. Right now, we need to discuss more before going to night. I like the pressure that's going on right now, and we should keep it up. Unless someone has a compelling argument to support phate's innocence, it's probably time for me to vote him. Maybe I'll consider no lynch eventually, but not right now.
Unvote, Vote: PhatePermanent V/LA.-
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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SJ, trust me, if you just skim the thread and post sparingly until then, you won't miss much. We probably will still be on the same day or just starting Day 2 when you get back. Don't get replaced, please.Spider Jerusalem wrote:Hey all, I'm going to be asking the mod to replace me, hate to have to do it but I'm completely overwhelmed with work for my classes right now and I don't see that getting better till mid December when the semester breaks. It was fun while it lasted.
For Mod: Please go ahead and replace mePermanent V/LA.-
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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I don't care how experienced my scumbuddies are. I just assume they're all n00bs unless I know them, and then half of them are n00bs anyways. Anybody who's played with me as scum would know that. Which is probably, like, no one in this game right now. But whatever.Elmo wrote:Mastermind of Sin wrote:Even worse than that, FlyingHawk has been a member of this site since the end ofMay, and he even played mafia elsewhere before joining. So he is definitely *not* new here.
If you'll pardon the pun, you do seem quite definite there.Mastermind of Sin wrote:Does it matter that I don't have 100% definitive proof?
It's just that if I were scumbuddies with someone, the one question I'd be guaranteed to ask them is how experienced they were.
Regardless, I've seen FlyingHawk say this in a couple queue threads:
Flyinghawk wrote:May i play? i've played forum mafia online before.
Just, not on this site.
That's an empty accusation to make when you haven't even shown how any of my logic was bad so far. And then you blindly agree with Elmo without checking your facts first. Nice job,Phate wrote:@Elmo - not terribly surprised. He [MoS] hasn't shown himself to be much for logic so far.sport. Wanna cookie?Permanent V/LA.-
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I almost signed up for that game, actually. I just didn't have time to add another normal, unless I saw one I *really* liked. That one just didn't do it for me. But I did see him post that. Odd things stick with you sometimes.Elmo wrote:Oddly enough, that's exactly what he says here - the signup for a game which you're not in, and in which you have no reason to have read. I also highly doubt you just happen to remember what someone wrote in a signup thread back in May.Unvote:Miztef;vote:Mastermind of Sin. DIE, PLEASE.
Okay, Linus, you're way too excited; I want you to get your blankie, go in a corner, and take a time-out.Elmo wrote:
This, by the way, is the absolute 24 carat gold standard of overdefensiveness that everyone who hasn't had their gut surgically removed wants to see.Mastermind of Sin wrote:Does it matter that I don't have 100% definitive proof?
Uh huh. Because you have *how* much experience playing with me that you can evaluate to know what overdefensive is for me? Right. Smooth move, Sherlock.
Let's see here. Dismissive comments, Fallacy of Negative Premises? Yeah, you're really convincing here. Nice try, Shirley. Why don't you go back to school and take an apple with you next time. Here, I'll give it a spit shine for you. I'm sure your teacher will do her job this time.Phate wrote:What logic, MoS? You've given me none to evaluate.
Chocolate chip?
Mastermind of Sin wrote:
You guys are making this out to be a lot bigger than it really is. It's not like I've said that what SirT did is some end-all scumtell that's going to reveal the scum. However, it was a good place for my vote on page 2 of a game, and it was worth pointing out. The only reason I'm still talking about this is because people are questioning it, and I don't ever let comments about me go unanswered if I can help it.Phate wrote:It's too early to say for sure, but I'd say he's talking crap. I'm waiting to see how he responds to Sir T before placing my vote.Mastermind of Sin wrote:
Bullshit.Phate wrote:Again, I'll use any witty devices I damn well want to, and if someone doesn't understand, they can ask me to clarify. Also,FoMS: Spider Jerusalemfor being way too agreeable. That always makes me suspicious. Also for his name, which I can't figure out.See reasoning below instead of ignoring it like you did last time
Everyone, check out the start of a two-pronged attack from Phate/Miztef.Miztef wrote:@Phate: I don't agree that unvoting = scum. Basically, I felt like moving some stuff forward in this game and didn't like the way/tone you were posted, so I just send a vote out there to see what happens.
I absolutely agree that Spider Jerusalem is looking scummy as well.
He's not really agreeing with the majority. SJ actually put a lot more thought and reasoning into his posts about me than anyone else in this game. He's actually
Agreeing with the majority view here.Spider Jerusalem wrote: Not much to go on but I'm going toFoS: Mastermind of Sinbecause so far I find that he pushed something on some very fishy logic then after people disagreed dropped the I've put too much into this to do anymore line. However, we don't want to start bandwagoning over something so small, so I'd love to hear some of the more quiet give their points of view.useful, as opposed to most of the "majority" that he was "agreeing" with.
This isn't even agreeing at all. SJ is the first person to explain in detail what was wrong with my argument, and he caught something that I hadn't. Just because everyone else unvoted and he speculated on a reason for it does not mean that he is agreeing with the majority. He's the only person to post this logic, he didn't copy what anyone else said.
Again, more agreeing.Spider Jerusalem wrote: I agree that in your specific post there was nothing seriously misleading, and if my statement came off that way I'll clarify. I was trying to speak in a more general tone, largely because I felt you intended a clear response but I have seen posts done that way get muddied up very quickly. Perhaps it's just a difference in opinion but I think it's much clearer to the town as a whole if you avoid the use of witty devices.
I don't disagree with most of this. However, if you'll note your discussion with SirT started shortly before the large amount of unvotes. In my mind and perhaps in others, that discussion was worthy of the end of random voting whether we agreed with your stance or not. This in addition to the other discussion about claims gave us something in game to discuss and analyze.
Agreed.I'llunvote vote: Spider Jerusalemon just these minor tells only because no one else strikes me as scummy.
Also, besides a random vote on me, Spider has not voted on any of his suspicions. To me, being non-committal, especially in an early phase in the game, is scummy because it leaves no real tracks to follow for inspection on later days.
Can I just say that I nearly feel out of my chair laughing at this?Phate wrote:FlyingHawk, SJ, not to call the kettle black, but you guys are new here. And thus it might stand to reason that you'll make mistakes, especially in the area of keeping things hidden if you have them to hide. And it strikes me as interesting that while you've been quiet all game, you both fairly well jump to defend MoS. This might (indeed, probably) be nothing, but I think it's worth mentioning.
*stores away the possibility that there might be a link between flyinghawk, MoS, and SJ*
Phate, regardless of saying that you aren't doing it, you aretotallycalling the kettle black here. Even worse than that, FlyingHawk has been a member of this site since the end ofMay, and he even played mafia elsewhere before joining. So he is definitely *not* new here. And SJ joined this site before you did, Phate, so you have no business acting like you know what you're talking about when it comes to newbies here. That's just ridiculous.Mastermind of Sin wrote:
This sentence is just fluff. It doesn't actually mean anything, unless you can explain what the point of saying it was.And thus it might stand to reason that you'll make mistakes, especially in the area of keeping things hidden if you have them to hide.
People *do* tend to defend others when they are being attacked with crappy cases.And it strikes me as interesting that while you've been quiet all game, you both fairly well jump to defend MoS. This might (indeed, probably) be nothing, but I think it's worth mentioning.
No, you're right. I haven't given you any logic in this game. Not at all.Mastermind of Sin wrote:
This is at least the second time you have said SJ was too agreeablePhate wrote:However, I stand by my original statement - I find you too agreeable. Your points of dissent are always surrounded by things like "I agree with most of this", "I definitely didn't mean to say", and "I could see how I was a little unclear." Perhaps this is just your playstyle, but I don't trust diplomats.sinceI have presented an argument that said he was not being "too agreeable", yet you have completely ignored my argument despite the fact that you quoted most of the rest of the post that this point was addressed in.
Listen, cookie, you've been here over a month. This is Mafia 101: I don't want every little thing run by me unless you actually know what you're talking about. I don't wanna give you my two cents' worth in a defense. But if you ever do wanna know my opinion, rest assured it will always be that you're an incredible pain and that every time I see your cutie-pie-doll face, it just makes me wanna pick you up and shake you until all the hours of my life that you've wasted...fall out.
And we only have Snickerdoodle. Deal with it.Permanent V/LA.-
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I was having fun.Phate wrote:
I'd just like to say that the above quote sets the tone for the rest of your post - you may as well be talking to yourself.Let's see here. Dismissive comments, Fallacy of Negative Premises? Yeah, you're really convincing here. Nice try, Shirley. Why don't you go back to school and take an apple with you next time. Here, I'll give it a spit shine for you. I'm sure your teacher will do her job this time.
No, it was just the closest thing I could come up with. There isn't really a syllogism involved. It's just that you first assumed a negative premise and came up with two conclusion, both of which were reliant on a premise that you had not established yet.Incidentally, you need to brush up on your formal fallacies. The Fallacy of Negative Premises, more accurately known as an affirmative conclusion from negative premises, is only committed when a categorical syllogism has a positive conclusion based on only negative premises.
An example of an affirmative conclusion from negative premises is the following:Code: Select all
No scummers use logic, and no logical people are wrong, therefore all scummers are wrong.
Are you actually suggesting I've made the above error, and if so, would you like to point it out? Or are you simply throwing around philosophical terms to try to sound intelligent?
Premise: MoS has given no logic this game.
Conclusion #1: I have no logic to analyze.
Conclusion #2: MoS is scum.
Conclusion #1, of course, follows if the Premise is true. However, Conclusion #2 has not been shown to follow in the first place.
Therefore, one could argue that your assertion is instead that:
If MoS is scum, he would give no logic in this game.
However, that is a non sequitur fallacy, as anyone who has read my games should know.
Not a huge scumtell does not means that it's not a scumtell at all. It's still a scumtell, and it was worth a vote at the time. Your subsequent posts have not convinced me to lift said vote.In your quoted posts, you make assertions, but with precious little to back them up.
Your first quoted post: "It's not a big deal, guys. I didn't say that was some huge scumtell, I just thought it was worth a vote."
Given that you both made an illogical attack on SJ after you (Phate) made an attack on me and SJ countered it, it was a fairly logical thing to point out. Not pointing out the connections would have been dumb.Your second quoted post: "Insert profanity with no fucking explanation here. Insert implication of Phate/Miztef scumpair here, just because Miztef agrees that SJ agrees too much. SJ has good logic. I agree. You're stupid, and you have no business posting anything that implicates me."
In addition, you have yet to show how SJ's posts were just agreeing with people. I would assert that he specifically went into more detail in his opinions than most people, which would require original material and not just agreeing. Neither of you showed how everything he said was an unoriginal thought that was merely agreeing with what the majority had already said.
Hmm, we might make you into a decent logic detector yet. If you hadn't already missed several other examples...Your third quoted post: "This logic is meaningless. The fact that they defended me is not inherently scummy [editor's note: <-- This is an example (I think the first I've seen from you) of logic. Way to go, MoS! Everybody give MoS a hand!]
I have said this before, and I just said it again up above. You HAVE ignored it, and you have NOT shown how he has just given examples of stuff. You are accusing him of doing something that is NOT obvious. Therefore, it is up to you to SHOW that he has done this. Merely claiming it is so does not make it so. My assertion is the base assumption that does not require me to show anything unless you have shown to the contrary already.Your fourth quoted post: "SJ's not too agreeable, and he has good logic. I said this before, so I'll call it 'presenting an argument,' regardless of my lack of any kind of supporting points for this statement, and say you've ignored it."
That's about the size of it.No, you're right. I haven't given you any logic in this game. Not at all.
Your last paragraph is empty once you take out the elitism and bravado. So a merry Fuck You to you too, good sir.[/quote]
Clearly you didn't get the reference and were too pissed off to realize that I actually put it there for a purpose. Plus it was funny.Permanent V/LA.-
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Erm, not odd in that sense of the word. Odd as in random or unexpected.Elmo wrote:
It was six months ago. It's not odd, and it's not memorable.Mastermind of Sin wrote:Odd things stick with you sometimes.
The fact that you think I could have immense fear and stress over anything on the internet answers my question for me.
Do you have some kind of psychological issue that causes you immense fear and stress when people ask you perfectly simple questions?Mastermind of Sin wrote:Because you have *how* much experience playing with me that you can evaluate to know what overdefensive is for me?Permanent V/LA.-
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So whatPhate wrote:@MoS
Code: Select all
Premise: MoS has given no logic. Conclusion: MoS is scum.
I have not made anything like that statement. I think the fact that you're reluctant to use logic makes you scummier, but absolute (justified) certainty is hard to come by in mafia.otherreasons do you have for me to be scum? That's the only reasoning I've seen from you so far, and you seem pretty hellbent on declaring that I'm scum and getting me lynched. Please, enlighten me.
So when is it scummy to agree with people and do other stuff as well? Everyone does it. Hell, you're as guilty of that as anyone else. Wtf is the point of your attack on SJ, then?I'm not going to bother to quote it, but go back and look at the post where I note that all of his points of dissent are covered in things like "I don't disagree with this," "I can see where I was being unclear," etc. I never said hejustagreed with people.
I'm being tactful? That's a new one. And here I thought I was going out of my way to be an unmitigated asshole with an enormous ego...where did@FaerieLord
Fine, you're on my suspicion list.
No, seriously. MoS is right - I think he's scum, and therefore, I'm likely to be suspicious of anyone defending him, especially if it looks like he's being ultratactful in order to stay on the public's good side.tactfulcome out of that?Permanent V/LA.-
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Didn't we start with day...how would scum have had a chance to talk to each other already? I assumed the scum had not been able to strategize yet...Elmo wrote:Me. Still thinking. I'm worried about the apparent lack of actually working it out, although it might be a good idea.
Should I post a full working out so far? It lets the scum know what the best moves are, but it also helps us understand what may be about to happen.
It's also possible the scum have already discussed trying to claim pre-game. If you're paranoid, you might say they're fully worked out it's bad for the town and are trying to get us to do it. So basically I want it to be watertight before we out the power roles.
SSF / MoS: You're smart, how far have you thought this through?Permanent V/LA.-
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Oh.spurgistan wrote:
They had four days from PMs being sent out until day 1 start, during which time they could talk.Mastermind of Sin wrote:
Didn't we start with day...how would scum have had a chance to talk to each other already? I assumed the scum had not been able to strategize yet...Elmo wrote:Me. Still thinking. I'm worried about the apparent lack of actually working it out, although it might be a good idea.
Should I post a full working out so far? It lets the scum know what the best moves are, but it also helps us understand what may be about to happen.
It's also possible the scum have already discussed trying to claim pre-game. If you're paranoid, you might say they're fully worked out it's bad for the town and are trying to get us to do it. So basically I want it to be watertight before we out the power roles.
SSF / MoS: You're smart, how far have you thought this through?Permanent V/LA.-
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I'm ethically against an organized cipher claim. I think it goes against the spirit of the game, mostly. I don't really have a problem with the occasional single person that does it, but an organized cipher mass claim is just an attempt to break not thesetup, but the entiregameof mafia.Permanent V/LA.-
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AS SSF pointed out, there is nothing wrong with a mass claim. However, the encrypted mass claim is breaking the game, and it's an unethical move if we do it. I would be sad if we were so bad at this game that we had to break it to have a chance at winning.Miztef wrote:I have actually just come across the idea recently in another game, and it was seen as unethical there as well.
However, I don't understand how this is so in this situation. Should we not be allowed to all claim at the same time? Must claims be said in a particular order? If that is the rule of the game, then so be it.
Even with the mafia getting to choose how they are each going to claim, I still believe one of the greatest advantages of doing such a plan is having no careless risk of hitting triumvirate. If we so choose, we can go after townies as long as 1 mafia claimed townie and keep the triums alive. That way, the power roles, at worst, would be eliminated in 3 days, and, if that's the case, the mafia who claimed trium would be found.Permanent V/LA.-
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Elmo is right. I'm glad he brought up these statistics, because I hadn't thought of it. This "we deserve to lose" crap is bullshit. There is never a reason to let pride cloud your judgement from taking the safer path. You should never gamble with the statistics in a situation like this. The best strategy is the one that has the best worst-case scenario. We're not looking for the high-risk, high-return plan. We're looking for the plan that gives us the best chance of not screwing it up, not the plan that gives us a very small chance of completely owning the scum and a very large chance of getting our asses kicked. There is no reason to decrease our chances of winning just because we're too proud to take the safer route. That's retarded.
No Mass Claim from me.Permanent V/LA.-
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Because only scum could possibly think this was a good plan at this point. The logic has been proven that the town has a better chance of winning if we do NOT mass claim. You are trying to brush past these proven statistics and play towards some retarded sense of pride about the game. You're presumptuous and likey scum as well.Permanent V/LA.-
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FaerieLord is continuing to argue for the mass claim without responding to the arguments that have been brought forth against his plan. He's just continually repeating the same words over and over, trying to browbeat us, through repetition, into agreeing. Can we please lynch him now?Permanent V/LA.-
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Well there was plenty of evidence. Just noPhate wrote:His last post was one of the things that bumped that percentage from 40 to 65. Making a 180-degree turn not based on any evidence but on the threat of a lynch.newevidence. Only clarifying here, I agree that the 180 under pressure doesn't look that great. I'm going to think on that one, because I need to figure out what I think a town player in that situation would have done (I still feel it's unlikely for a townie to get IN that situation, but we have to consider the possibility).Permanent V/LA.-
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How is that a 180? I still want to lynch FaerieLord because he's scum. However, I'm not doing this with my blinders on. I'm stillElmo wrote:Mastermind of Sin wrote:He's just continually repeating the same words over and over, trying to browbeat us, through repetition, into agreeing. Can we please lynch him now?
Speaking of doing a 180...Mastermind of Sin wrote:I'm going to think on that one, because I need to figure out what I think a town player in that situation would have doneconsideringthe possibilities. I just don't find it very likely that he's not scum.Permanent V/LA.-
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In optics and physics, Snell's law (also known as Descartes' law or the law of refraction), is a formula used to describe the relationship between the angles of incidence and refraction, when referring to light or other waves, passing through a boundary between two different isotropic media, such as air and glass. The law says that the ratio of the sines of the angles of incidence and of refraction is a constant that depends on the media.
In optics, the law is used in ray tracing to compute the angles of incidence or refraction, and in experimental optics to find the refractive index of a material.
Named after Dutch mathematician Willebrord Snellius, one of its discoverers, Snell's law states that the ratio of the sines of the angles of incidence and refraction is equal to the ratio of velocities in the two media, or equivalently to the inverse ratio of the indices of refraction:
or
Snell's law follows from Fermat's principle of least time, which in turn follows from the propagation of light as waves.Permanent V/LA.-
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"QFT", internet slang usually meaning "quoted for truth". This term applies on forums and posting boards where users can edit their posts, and describes a re-posting of another user's statement in order to counteract subsequent changes. Since the repost is not made by the original author, it can not be edited by him and will always preserve an unaltered copy of his initial contribution. Thus the QFT holds the poster to his original statement. It is also used to express agreement with a previous poster's statement and validate its veracity. Other variations include "quoted for truthiness," "quoted for truthery," and "quite fucking true". QFT can also mean "quit fucking talking".Permanent V/LA.-
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