Mini 1959 - Protomen Blitz : Game Over

[Gorkington]

if you vote for me
youre in big trouble

[Gorkington]

vote: almost chara

[Gorkington]

GRRRRRRRRR
YOURE BOTH IN A LOT OF TROUBLE NOW

[Gorkington]

i mean if we're gonna be boring

vote: xiao

worst post in the game so far.

[Gorkington]

if you really want to be protown you could vote for me or xiao.
preferably xiao because hes probably scum, but either works.

[Gorkington]

i dont.

[Gorkington]

jokeposts are a fun crutch arent they?

[Gorkington]

see, playing the confidence angle as scum only really works if you can fake bravado, and it kind of seems like you cant.
):

[Gorkington]

im vaguely familiar with townXiao, which will probably surprise him.
but its moreso that i have a pretty strong confidence in my ability to read earlygame tone and everything about his entrance this game reads as super flat and not real.

[Gorkington]

earlygame is when scum has a lot of potential to feel uncomfortable.
i dont really see what kind of better lead you could want at this point, unless your purpose here is to just be contrarian for the sake of being contrarian while not helping any kind of wagon momentum get going.

[Gorkington]

why would i bluff at this stage of the game
lol

p-edit: right.
how long have you been here drealm?
you really have no experience with the general train of thought of early wagons to get game momentum going?

pp-edit: lol

[Gorkington]

and its not like i havent been clear that i think xiao is really likely scum and have given reasons
so its kind of baffling that youre implying that i dont care about scumhunting here drealm.

[Gorkington]

im cheetory6.
we played together in Varsoon Mafia way back when.
i prefer play on this account now because im weird.

no bluffs.

[Gorkington]

vote me then.
put your money where your mouth is big man.

[Gorkington]

game momentum is created by wagon momentum.
you can analyze wagons, who stayed off or on and why.

talking theory or berating yume is shit content in comparison to that.

im trusting my earlygame gut on xiao, and i also think that pushing that confidence to get a wagon is protown.
im glad that you completely ignored my point on it being a general train of thought on the site that wagon momentum is important to take a garbo potshot at me about wording semantics though.

p-edit: lol.
youre going to need a lot more than comics here to make me not want to lynch you.

[Gorkington]

im not saying theyre the same thing.
im saying that wagon momentum can lead to game momentum.
use your eyes and read the words.
read them.
and then tell me i was saying theyre the same thing.
that way i can know if you have reading comprehension issues or not.

p-edit: so you just have no familiarity with site meta/theory at all.
gotcha.

[Gorkington]

chara you are now my rock in this game ty

[Gorkington]

how frustrated are you going to be postgame
when i get to be a jerk about me being town and xiao being scum

[Gorkington]

i mean
was more just annoyed with your critique of my play while you were also doing effectively nothing.

[Gorkington]

xiao
if youre looking for a place to vote
you could either vote
mcmenno
or xiao

[Gorkington]

you could think for yourself if youre not going to listen to me telling you who scum is.

[Gorkington]

@Gork: I don't actually undedstand your Xiao thing, but I don't know Xiaos play at all. Is this more meta based, or just behavior x is always scum indicative?

i dont know if im going to be able to get on the same page with you on this because i know we typically tend to find different things scummy in general.
but i can try:

xiao's first post pinged because its got more than it needs to have. the placement of the vote is kind of weird. its hard to explain this but basically it doesnt seem like xiao went "lol rvs here is my vote", it seems way more like he drafted that post once or twice because he was thinking about how it might be perceived.
(you dont need to care about this point really, this is just for context on where the initial vote came from)

i will admit that i thought that xiao was trying to say that he actually thought i was scummy and i just didnt really believe that as a reaction to my push. with father of dead context looks more like it was just mostly a joke/rvs vote.
this is still pretty wonky though:

In that case definitely don’t believe his lies about confidence. I was confident enough to fake an obnoxious post restriction as town in our other game together.

If I’d have known you were Cheetos I’d have done the comics again.

ive seen this kind of behavior from scum before when it comes to engaging someone who's pushing them that they know is hard to push back, in that they want to call them a liar, but they cant actually commit to calling them scum because they know they cant seriously push a real case on them.
the use of the word "liar" here is key. i dont think town really uses that word there unless they think the person is scum.

I guess nowhere for now if everyone seems to agree it’s his usual town play.

unvote

also think that his recent posting is coming across as consensus scumhunting.
the xiao i know would never let someone else tell him who he should be scumreading D:

[Gorkington]

I take issue with you walking back the strength and conviction in your initial push, while finding other things to be suspicious of. It pings a bit, in that it feels as though you know that first push was completely fabricated so you're preemptively dismissing it yourself before someone else calls you out on it, but reluctant to just drop the wagon as soon as someone questions you about it because that's suspicious. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, and you were just trying to outline your entire thought process for me, including your future realizations. :/

i went to recase my thoughts this morning and realized i misread part of xiao's entry as serious when it wasnt.
kind of baffling that with the way im playing here you think that im worried about how people are perceiving me to the extent that i would fold under the pressure of a single non-threatening question.

[Gorkington]

cerb you better not be scum this game.
for real.
i would be really disappointed in you for letting varsoon give you a scumPM.

[Gorkington]

i dont understand yume/titus on a good day.
and while today is a good day
i unsurprisingly still dont understand yume/titus.

[Gorkington]

do you want me to theorycraft what varsoon would or wouldnt do with neighbors in one of his games?

[Gorkington]

drealm is incredibly confident that everything im doing is scummy but votes someone else and would vote another person before me.
:')

[Gorkington]

youre #2 on mine even though i dont think youre scum.
(:

[Gorkington]

shocking!
am i number two now?
(:
we can be matching #2 buddies

[Gorkington]

thats not very nice.
):

xiao's still probably scum if you want to vote with me drealm.
we could work together through our differences as a team.
wouldnt that be fun?
(:

[Gorkington]

I don't like their push on xiao and there's a bit of me being contrarian

more words/examples of what you dont like about their push pls and ty.

[Gorkington]

i figured there was a chance.
you could have said we were both shit though and then i would have known for sure!
(:

im totally down to be shit together man.
we could both vote xiao and when he flips scum we can feel a sense of companionshit and maybe we can leave all of these hard feelings behind us.
whaddya say?

[Gorkington]

what!
no!
im not doing that at all!

it hurts my feelings for you to rebuke me like this drealm.
i was so happy imagining us working together as a team and youve gone and thrown it all away
i cant believe you.

youve done many things to hurt me over the years, but this surely hurts more than all of them combined.

[Gorkington]

again.
youve said that basically every post ive made this game is scummy.
vote me you unprincipled toddler of a mafia player.

i want you,
mr. big shot drealmerz.
to commit to your read on my posting
of me being scum.
instead of being a coward and calling my posts scummy over and over again and not doing anything about it.
vote me and push me.

i want to bask in your fully committed wrongness and until i get that i will be unfulfilled.

[Gorkington]

your first post about creating teams was bad but I'm used to you being bad, but wtf is this shit? outing someone else's ability? you can die, this sort of thing is incredibly scummy and if you're town doing it you're a giant liability.

how are you voting yume for this over me or xiao?
if youre not voting xiao out of principle of me being on the wagon because you think im scum, vote me instead of being a coward.

[Gorkington]

youve literally seen this exact kind of exchange with me and vecna before.
so, thats bullshit and youre probably scum.
if xiao starts being town youre up to bat bud.

[Gorkington]

im pretty sure by the time we started interacting a lot it was midgame and i was pretty tired/bitter?
i was literally a wall during D1.

p-edit: what question?

[Gorkington]

i mean im probably going to die early this game, so probably not me.

p-edit: sorry varsoon im here specifically to make your game conf-frowned (:

[Gorkington]

Interesting assertion. So you think you're so wrong that scum will kill you early because doing so won't throw suspicion on any of them? :p

-Cerb

yes thats the one.
(:

[Gorkington]

Cheetos apparently votes me on misunderstanding my first posts but then trying to retcon his reasons?

this is a terrible parrot of RR's wrong interpretation of what happened, which xiao has no benefit of the doubt on in terms of him not being engaged enough with the situation to understand the context.

xiao is still an amazing vote.
the entire discredit of the wagon sucks.

[Gorkington]

(and there really doesnt seem to be much genuine scumhunting off of the wagon, just a general discredit of the wagon)

[Gorkington]

im talking about your scumhunting off of the wagon, as in, i dont believe that youre genuinely trying to parse anything that anyone is doing on the wagon right now.
or at least i especially dont believe your interpretation of my vote on you.

[Gorkington]

Have I not questioned people outside of the context of my wagon? Pretty sure I have.
You seem to be holding me to much higher standards than the opportunistic voters which makes me scratch my head as to why town Cheetos would do that.

I may have misinterpreted your vote on me, feel free to quote the actual case.

its almost as if i think youre scum
and while i think youre scum
im going to care about what you say
more than what anyone else is saying
what a novel concept.

why in the world would townMe try to push and try to get someone that i think is scum lynched?

youve read the post where i supposedly "retcon" my reasoning.
i understand you replied to it.
its certainly convenient that youve adopted that reasoning after someone else mentioned it, when you didnt mention it yourself in your immediate responses to it.

but sure, lets lay out some reasoning again.
i) your entrance was awkward and the jokepost was crutchy.
ii) your questioning since then has read as busybody, which is something ive seen scum do after having an awkward jokey entrance.
iii) you hard discredit the entire wagon on you with uniform blanket reasoning, calling everyone on it scummy, and nobody is even implied to be badTown reading you wrong, in spite of you having said that you think im townish SINCE my push on you, including my apparent "retcon" that youre now citing.
so all in all, i dont believe your transitions.
i dont believe anything about any read youve pushed and the way youve come to and come away from your reads.
i dont believe your reaction to your wagon.
and i havent gotten any kind of townvibes from anything youve done.

so.
yes.
baseless case.
keep pushing that point.
its going to look real good on you.

[Gorkington]

drixx
im telling you upfront
that if this is a fakeclaim
and youre town
im blacklisting you for good.

dont do this if youre just townreading xiao.

[Gorkington]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

unvote

i was literally reading both of you on opposite scumteams.
q.q

[Gorkington]

glad i could help keep the streak going :')

[Gorkington]

im the one who seems hurt here.
lol.

[Gorkington]

its also funny because i literally couldnt replicate my towngame as scum if i tried my heart out.
so really its just kind of embarassing that you think that im trying to hide my scumgame.
im just apparently a scumfuck that everyone but you has some capacity to read correctly when im town.

p-edit: im aware im a shithead.
youre positing that im upset right now, and im not.
im maybe annoyed by how wrong everything youve posited about me so far this game has been, but that hasnt really translated into any kind of serious emotional feeling?

[Gorkington]

would probably be a valid critique of me right now too.

call me dumb if i post again in the game before tomorrow.
i need some time to wind back from where my head's been at and me not back-and-forthing with drealm is probably better for gamestate in general.

[Gorkington]

vote: desperado

wagontime
wagontime
wagontime
chugga chugga

also i'd like to think varsoon's idea of being bastard isnt having fake-masonry.

[Gorkington]

zach needs to start posting more btw.

[Gorkington]

this is probably just navel gazing but
wouldnt using that ability on furude been the best possible utility for it?

[Gorkington]

titus do you have a read on yume?

[Gorkington]

didnt miss it.
just didnt claim anything.

[Gorkington]

lol

[Gorkington]

titus do you have a read on yume?

[Gorkington]

could you reread their votes this game and tell me whether they line up with your expectations of her town game?

[Gorkington]

fur why is mcmenno scum

pedit: i mean im pretty confident youre town too?

[Gorkington]

halp how to play?
someone?

[Gorkington]

im still trying to figure out how youre supposed to play mafia
its all really very confusing
S:

[Gorkington]

go post mafia theory in MD instead of cluttering the game with your overbearing assertions about how everyone should or shouldnt be playing the game.

[Gorkington]

i mean, im poking him here.
is kind of reasonable for him to shit-talk back?

would just prefer that he not purport how amazing at the game he is and how everyone else is apparently so terrible.
its really annoying to read.

Gork you lacking man, you know what my towny justice is like

have been phone posting/busier than i thought i was going to be the last day or so.
im more or less around now.
can you walk me through what you think townMcmenno would be doing here that he isnt?

[Gorkington]

titus what would you say is your track record of reading yume in general?

[Gorkington]

the way you approach telling people how to play comes across as very condescending.
and this is coming from Captain Condescending himself.

if you think you have better ideas about how to play, frame it as a suggestion.
dont just tell people to change the way they play and that youre right and theyre wrong.
its an unbelievably abrasive approach.

[Gorkington]

why would our scumread (who's pushing us as scum) claim to us

what was the timeline on this? like, did he claim right off the bat, talk to you and then think youre scum? or did he think youre scum while claiming to you?

p-edit: theyre referring to mcmenno.

[Gorkington]

furude if youre not going to be here to derail the wagon on you, you should drop final reads for both heads before a hammer/deadline hits pls and ty.
i dont really have any interest in fighting this wagon if im not going to be able to back-and-forth to shore up my read on you.

[Gorkington]

Desperado, why are you following dreal?

did desp say he was doing this?

[Gorkington]

what was the timeline on this? like, did he claim right off the bat, talk to you and then think youre scum? or did he think youre scum while claiming to you?

can i please get this too?

[Gorkington]

ok then.
mcmenno whats the deal with the claim? why did you apparently claim to someone you werent townreading?

[Gorkington]

boooooooooooooooo im dum.

We're not obv town but we're definitely not scum and several people know that already

i mean if you were more town i would be more willing to stick my neck out?
like, youre getting angry at me here, but youre also giving me almost nothing to work with. if you just want to be lynched and be out of the game then all you really have to do is wait. but if you want to not be lynched then theres probably more you could be doing here?

[Gorkington]

try to give more detail as to why mcmenno is scum, break down the points that drealm/RR are pushing on you and say why they suck, pull up the votes from your wagon and pick at them, quote specific mcmenno posts and try to explain why they suck, pull up reasons you think people should consider for why youre town. could probably think of more if i werent tired/supposed to be working right now.

[Gorkington]

here cerb -

vc:

furude - almost dead
everyone else - not almost dead

How much are we going to spend explaining a gambit to people who already know what a gambit is?

i mean im pretty sure you understand that RR doesnt think you werent gambiting.
from where im standing theyve made it pretty clear that they just think that you were faking the gambit as scum? am i reading that wrong or no?

[Gorkington]

okay

vote: mcmenno

[Gorkington]

high pressure flash counterwagon lets fuckin gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

mcmenno is flipflopping back and forth between overconfidence on furude being scum to just kind of being there asking them dispassionate questions as if hes trying to sort them still
theres more there than there is on desp atm, so unless someone wants to case desp we should just railroad the shit out of mcmenno and get some counterpressure/momentum going

[Gorkington]

okay wait, can you double check with varsoon whether your role would give a false positive on a godfather or not?
because honestly that seems straight up bastard if it functions that way.
its almost on the same level as an innocent child ability for scum unless the ability explicitly dictates that it could get a false positive from a godfather-esque role

[Gorkington]

the refunding seems more like an indication of a refund in the event of targeting an ascetic player, not scum.

[Gorkington]

Gork, do you prefer desp to mcmenno? If not, why do you even offer them as an alternative? And why is Menno the first one you suggestion, purely wagon count? If so, I'd like to remind yout that Xiao and us will be voting together, and hopefully Titus too, and we're all active so significant wagon swings can happen.

i just gave reasoning for why i think hes scummy. desp is just there and my vote was an extension of that feeling of him just kind of being there. mcmenno has had literally no reaction to me starting to push him and is calling furude scum/potshotting them over and over while also asking questions as if hes still trying to sort them (which kind of reads as dissonant with the strength of the read that hes pushing?).

[Gorkington]

scum could be on wagon, scum could want to run the clock and force town to do dirty work for them, scum could be AWOL, scum could be cowards, or yes furude could be scum. theres lots of options on the table.

[Gorkington]

I don't get lynched D1 as town and I'm not under this much heat D1 as town.

is this supposed to be sarcastic?

[Gorkington]

and which is most likely?

i would probably say running the clock or already on the wagon if furude isnt scum?
seems like a really lame excuse to not have to think about whether mcmenno is scum.

p-edit: figured as much.
eh.
im not really sure if im feeling mcmenno scum with last page or so tbh.
:/

is desp still an option on the table?

[Gorkington]

vax might be an okay option too tbh.

[Gorkington]

lets do vax cause hes here lololol

vote: vaxkiller

heres my lame case: could someone possibly be doing less with a drealmerz vote with 7 hours to deadline? let me know in the comments below.

[Gorkington]

is vax town furude?

[Gorkington]

also, do you like being alive? both important questions.

[Gorkington]

VOTE: dreal

look at this garbo vote. look at how garbo it is. theres 7 hours left and hes trying to vote for drealm, someone who is never getting lynched with this little time left and he knows it. its a fucking do nothing shit vote and townVax probably knows better.

[Gorkington]

vax.
reads on the entire playerlist.
give them.

[Gorkington]

Desperado
drealmerz7
McMenno

why would you vote for drealmz if theres consensus support for lynching both of your other strong scumreads?

[Gorkington]

^vax is actually probably scum.

[Gorkington]

if that slot is town they engage me in the hood and in game thread and talk to me about why I'm wrong and work with me (especially when they're TRing me) to show me why and...yeah...no...zachali is scum

its also possible that pace of a blitz game + 12 other PTs makes engaging with every player difficult regardless of whether theyre town or scum?

[Gorkington]

i feel like its much more likely that we're just lynching vax at this point?

[Gorkington]

tonewise mcmenno reads a lot better to me than vax right now.

p-edit: i mean if you want an entertaining exercise in seeing how bad someone can be as scum for comfort, you could look at me in Civ Mafia :p

[Gorkington]

you literally said nothing in mcmenno's ISO is town and cant name specifics and you want to say tonereading is bad when youre literally essentially pushing a gutread on him? what?

[Gorkington]

like, zach, in my mind, you and transcend operate like 90% on gut reactions to people doing things in a way you cant necessarily articulate clearly.

i dont understand how that doesnt classify as tonereading at least to some degree??

[Gorkington]

tone is bullshit a lot of the time

this is also a baffling post to make after vax makes a terrible vote on you, especially since ive been making it pretty clear that both of his other scumreads are on the table. you really dont feel any kind of concern for what he just did?

[Gorkington]

I want mcmenno or desp, but no one gives a fuck. Towns just going to eat itself alive.

this isnt a real post that a real person makes. kill. KILL. RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Gorkington]

if its so easy why is vax not doing it?
checkmate.

[Gorkington]

why arent you okay with scrapping the van?

[Gorkington]

(also like, the entire wagon is basically me, titus and RR, so the only person you can really say would be diverting attention from desp is me, btw, so you might want to just call me out specifically if youre just going to make generalizations that literally only apply to me)

[Gorkington]

s'all good.
if it were me i probably would have accidentally used it on myself because im pants on head when it comes to roles
:')

[Gorkington]

say goodbye to your wheels vanman

[Gorkington]

unvote

yes master

[Gorkington]

this is why we need to campaign against terrible shit play on MS!

you don't fucking vote if you're not caught up and / or don't know the current vote count

EVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

if vax doesnt address things before deadline hes dying. the pressure is still there, vote or not. hes going to have to address things quickly if he wants to not get lynched from deadline crunch.

if vax is town theres still enough space that we could potentially reroute and lynch desp if he starts acting town. i'd rather not have to potentially parse whether a dumbhammer comes from town or not in exchange for pseudopressure.

[Gorkington]

you cant discourage shitty play by policy lynching it. people are going to continue being bad regardless of how many games youre willing to throw on merit of punishing bad play. i'd rather just try to win.

[Gorkington]

i mean, the tradeoff is how many games do you have to throw before you drill it into people that playing like garbage is unacceptable? 10? 50? 100? 1000? and the average person isnt going to comply with your ideas of what does or doesnt apply in terms of universally unacceptable play as town.

i dont think that tradeoff is realistic or worth it.
i would rather win with what i have available in front of me.
especially since, in this case, basically all youre losing is some pseudopressure, as vax is clearly going to die if he doesnt come back in the next hour or two and start being pretty town.

can discuss more of this postgame if you really want.

[Gorkington]

rr/titus, i havent played a varsoon game in a little while, does he usually provide fakeclaims/fakeclaim PMs at the start of the game for scum?
or do you have to request something and he fills in the details?

[Gorkington]

the implication is that the role implies that vax is the main character, not that hes claimed the main character titus. he didnt even mention flavour in his claim.

[Gorkington]

if vax's claim is true, then shouldnt it probably say that someone other than electric man does the action? we could just see if thats what happens?

[Gorkington]

in-flavour it wouldn't make sense to have Elec Man die multiple times.

electric man died wha?

[Gorkington]

like, is the implication not that one of the players in the game is electric man and made AC voteless, thus if vax uses their ability tonight, it should potentially say something else, which is something vax is saying that the wording of the PM supports

@vax

, can you ask varsoon what the message will be?

p-edit: oh the actual flavour said that. well, would it not be a strong indicator that vax is probably actually legitimately getting back-ups of powers that the state (or at least im assuming its the state) if he uses it and the flavour suggests something else is happening rather than someone just dying?

[Gorkington]

its not.
the.
exact.
same.
for.
every.
player.
if you have.
a.
role.

understand how the game works before you write something that makes you sound like a fucking moron.

[Gorkington]

Like, stop doubting my ability. I can catch scum, so don't go speaking nonsense when you know nothing about the way I play.

if you think hes legitimately doubting your ability vs just trying to make you look bad to deter you, wouldnt that make him town in your eyes?

[Gorkington]

im willing to reconsider mcmenno, especially since he disappeared after the wagon on him disappeared.

[Gorkington]

rr/titus, i havent played a varsoon game in a little while, does he usually provide fakeclaims/fakeclaim PMs at the start of the game for scum?
or do you have to request something and he fills in the details?

wow look at all of the flavour i was talking about in this post you responded to. lolllllllllllllll

[Gorkington]

or it could be that i think that the role he claimed is elaborate in a way that i dont think vax would be able to pull out of a hat like that, especially considering the part that other people have been referencing where he thought that literally everyone else in the game had the exact same role as him, something that would be really strange to think if all of the scum in the game got different fakeclaims. but you know, feel free to keep being a dismissive ass for no reason when youre barely following along with the train of thought everyone else is following.

this post is still really really dumb

we all have the same pm

we all have abilities

they could all be town or scum

^this is how varsoon operates.

its for whether or not the mechanics provided in the fakeclaim are provided by varsoon or not you mouthbreather.

[Gorkington]

you need to say what you mean cause there is nothing worth voting desperado provided by anyone who's currently voting him

i could vote desperado to not have to read another of his posts? is that a bad reason?

[Gorkington]

again, illustrating that youre not following the discussion and just simplifying it down to "anyone can have any role". read what happened with vax's claim again and people's thoughts on it. im not going to spoonfeed it to you when youre being an asshat about it.

[Gorkington]

that is not a mistake?!?!?!

we really do all have the same fucking role pm

what is the matter with you guys

again captain doesnt want to read the game doesnt understand what actually happened. durururuhdfururhd thtururhduhrur djhrhjejkkewrh

[Gorkington]

desp thinks we think that vax is town because he claimed protoman or because we dont think vaxkiller can fakeclaim.

when it should be pretty clear that the contingents are:
i) that in order for vax to be scum, its like he would have had to have been provided fakeclaim material that made him look like protoman
ii) he would have had to have thought that everyone in the game got the same role, which if hes a part of the state, he likely knows that his scummates have differently formatted fakeclaims than he does.
OR he had to have thought "oh if i do this crazy roundabout thing, everyone will think that i overthought the VT claim as slightly different than VT-VT." i think both of those cases are pretty unlikely.

but apparently we're all just idiots and dont know that we have similarly formatted rolePMs because desperado is so smart and has been following along with the game so closely unlikely everyone else. hurp de durp.

[Gorkington]

how do you know scum have differently formatted fakeclaims than town?
~Chara

im saying that if they have different fakeclaims/fakeroles, vax would clearly know that what he got isnt the townVT role

[Gorkington]

i mean if you keep acting like this, im willing to vote for you. lol.
i dont really want to you to be a party pooper day two if people start pushing you again.

[Gorkington]

I doubt you'd get support for anyone else with this little time remaining.....

will you only vote for furude because a scummate might be on the table otherwise?

[Gorkington]

havo should also be on the table if we're looking at negligible participation slots

[Gorkington]

aight whatever. be shitheads. i dont care.
will hammer whoever.

[Gorkington]

vote: vaxkiller

[Gorkington]

im sorry for calling you a mouthbreather desp. the implication you were making of my post being stupid make me feel like you were directly calling me stupid, which made me kneejerk an angry response.
i dont like how youre approaching the game but that doesnt warrant me being this shitty about it.
shouldnt open ms games when im this tired.

[Gorkington]

did mcmenno have an intense fakeclaim in laundry

[Gorkington]

mcmenno could be a part of the father of death faction, he didnt even explicitly say he was town in his claim?

[Gorkington]

dang
was worth a shot

[Gorkington]

at the risk of being the biggest idiot
i see reasons to not want to lynch desp, mcmenno and vax
is there any reason not to run up fuzzy/havo?

[Gorkington]

like 4 votes in the next 10 minutes will lynch anyone, ftr.
theres no reason we cant get a wagon on anyone if we consensus it

[Gorkington]

im honestly tempted to vote furude.

[Gorkington]

god i dont fucking know.
lol
this plurality lynch mechanic is fucking with me, we have too much control over the lynch too close to deadline.

[Gorkington]

fuck it

vote: furudes

that unvote and then peace out so close to deadline is skeevy
and i havent really thought anything zach has done is town
and mcmenno seems like hes probably town to me
so the push there just seems wonky
there hasnt been any doubt
furude's role in conjunction with RR's is fucking stupid strong
furude hasnt done anything town in my PT
they could be demotivated town
but they could also just be scum
so
whatever

we dont need another claim if we do this.

[Gorkington]

sorry titus but i think this is what i truly want

[Gorkington]

fucking blitz plurality deadlines lmao
this is brutal

[Gorkington]

gahhhh im really sorry if im making the wrong call here
q.q

[Gorkington]

i really doubt furude will get shot if theyre town

[Gorkington]

titus if furude is town i will back you up on anything you want tomorrow
i promise

[Gorkington]

i mean,
i think if i'd said "LYNCH HAVO" it would have just happened.
is more just that i pushed a case last minute and the momentum shifted there

[Gorkington]

so basically zach gets to tell me to eat shit postgame if i wrongly pushed him to get lynched last minute in this clusterfuck of a game

p-edit: i mean.
it wasnt meant to be anything more than a slam dunk?

[Gorkington]

vote: fuzzy

titus please carry me across the finish line

[Gorkington]

havo you lucky
you best make the most of this second chance youve been given

[Gorkington]

I told you guys I start slow and pick up steam as I go.

im much more used to you complaining about not seeing enough content in a game.
seeing you just kind of flopping around doing nothing when you finally have content to work with looks kinda wonky yo

[Gorkington]

how long is it going to take you to have regular good old reads
like
the ones that you have in a normal game
that you can probably get from reading whats happened and looking at who's voting what for what reason etc etc???????

[Gorkington]

Yeah I’m pretty much there now.

so desp/vax are your scumreads atm?
are you still not wanting to lynch vax because they indirectly claimed the main character or do you have more nuance there now?
why were/are you potentially still scumreading desp?

[Gorkington]

the 1 and only

[Gorkington]

im here to give my fabled insight

[Gorkington]

a50 doesnt seem like scuma50
but chara feels a bit off.

havo's not doing enough and seems off.

yume feels townish but ive seen her get bogged down in dramatic fights as both scum and town so would prefer her to just drop talking to drealm and focus on beating up people she thinks are scum if shes town.

vax's role is strong.
if vax is town/not on the killing faction im guessing hes not going to be around for too long.

[Gorkington]

i wouldnt vote drealm unless i were pretty confident he were scum
because the pain of trying to get that to happen wouldnt be worth just being a little suspicious of him.

[Gorkington]

What do you think about the Mason claim?

What’s the odds of 2 scum factions and a mason group in the game?

similar to my thoughts on vaxkiller.
also more or less believe drixx's reaction to me poking him about the claim.

i dont really understand why it couldnt be a thing? have you not heard people saying that outguessing varsoon is a futile exercise?

[Gorkington]

its probably worth looking at who mcmenno was scumreading
given that he was blocked and shot with his claim.

[Gorkington]

@titus:

During Night 1, Ice Man froze an entire subway station.
Due to this, McMenno would not have been able use any abilities during Day 2 and Night 2.

How's it true?

are you masons with RR or not
why in the world are you beating about the bush with this?

[Gorkington]

ive been pretty sick the last 24 hours. honestly probably should have replaced out but im possibly feeling better this morning so i might be able to invest some good time into this game tonight.

xiao is probably the more likely scum out of xiao/RR, if they arent both just scum.

given that killing off the FoD faction earlier on in the game is easier for us than trying to long slog it to clearing out the state, i can kind of believe Drixx's stance here?
(even if i think its fucking nuts that he derailed a scumlynch off of what could very very very easily be a fakeclaim/there really isnt much reason for xiao to give entirely honest results if he is scum)

[Gorkington]

vote: xiao

im not voting anything else.
i literally guarantee this flips scum.

[Gorkington]

so your points were
i) "varsoon is more likely to fakeclaim things", which doesnt really have much to do with anything, given that RR was the one who stuck their neck out to fakeclaim for you, all you had to do was not deny it (which is more or less what you did).
ii) "ive seen cheetos push a claimed cop before", by which you mean, i tried to lurk through you trying to push a guilty on me in varsoon mafia.
iii) "maybe i should have investigated cheetos because i think hes scum here". which i think you know better if youre town here.

you had weird as heck engages with titus, as if you were trying to question her motives when shes literally conftown.
your earlygame was super off.
and your play since the mason claim on you has been coasty.

theres already a claimed and proven 1-shot cop role. and yes, someone is frankly right that varsoon isnt the kind of mod to just put in a straight up cop into a game. theres no apparent reason for you being in a hood with RR. really doesnt add up, at all.

[Gorkington]

mcmenno flipped a vig/cop variant. RR is more or less confirmed as a cop variant. is it really hard to understand why xiao's role isnt a real thing?
like, maybe RR would be the scum here, but i also just dont believe that town has a full cop in this setup.

[Gorkington]

also, in terms of my general presence this game, have been really sick this week. if i cant get it together before deadline i'll replace out during night and let someone with more time take over.

[Gorkington]

titus can you simplify down why you think rr/drealm are most likely out of everyone to flip scum from where youre at right now? like, into 2-3 condensed/accessible points?

[Gorkington]

Claimed he'd never do it as town.

do you think drixx fakeclaims there because of the utility of harnessing xiao's claimed role as town though?

Linked with reporter role.

can you explain this one a little more to me?

Claims cop in game.
Votes cop claim.

not sure i understand either of these.

Matches in Memory meta.

can i get some more words on what you mean by this?

[Gorkington]

you know what theyre talking about, but youre not seeing the same thing?
can you not be ambiguous please? q.q
just explain what you think it might be

[Gorkington]

they confirmed titus as town???

[Gorkington]

i mean, i want to lynch xiao right now, but im trying to see where titus is coming from

[Gorkington]

vax who are your top 3 guesses for scum right now

[Gorkington]

tbh vax doesnt really seem like scum to me right now?

[Gorkington]

desp you may want to run through why you think both pairings of scum that youve put forward are a thing again?
i keep seeing you saying that rr/xiao and vax/yume are scum over and over. i can get the logic on xiao/rr, i dont know if i understand why vax and yume are scum together?

[Gorkington]

im not really sure what i would expect to see from fuzzy that he hasnt done here, as town. im kind of on the same page about desp though. his reads seem a little too simple atm? if that makes sense?
it seems like hes had the exact same reasoning for the exact same scumreads since mid-D1. could be wrong, but thats what it kind of feels like?

p-edit: like, flipping titus and publically confirming her is kind of like a cop variant yeah? its functionally very similar to what a cop does, it just also has a pretty nasty side-effect.

[Gorkington]

oop. misread one of your posts while trying to figure out who you were saying was scum with vax.
okay, well, why are vax/havo scum together?

[Gorkington]

compared their ISOs, i moreso just feel like havo is scum, rather than that theyre scum together?

[Gorkington]

@titus

, if RR is a part of the state, why would they roleblock mcmenno instead of xiao?

[Gorkington]

are you normally this confident with your reads desp?

[Gorkington]

yes

and whats your track record in general? do you think your confidence in games is generally based in consistently good results when youre town or is it kind of mixed?

have you ever directly called out an entire scumteam before like youre doing here where you were right?

[Gorkington]

havo if you glance into this game before deadline you should claim given how likely of a deadline lynch you are right now.

[Gorkington]

vote: havo

ay havo's scumbuddies let him know hes getting wagoned so he can come fakeclaim
pls and ty

[Gorkington]

poe and hes been a lurksack/hasnt really taken any kind of serious initiative to try and get things done like ive seen him do as town

[Gorkington]

i have him as really, really null. i think he could flip either way. it's not a terrible lynch but i think Vax is more likely scum.
what's your read on us?

i think people should really be pulling specifics about vax's ISO that they feel are bad, because im not really seeing it? i can try to articulate specifics about why havo seems fake when i get home from work in 2 hours.

a50 feels like hes playing differently from real folk. but you also feel like youre playing differently from real folk. so. youre a pretty muddled read atm

[Gorkington]

why do you care so much about my read on you? its not like im pushing you?

[Gorkington]

so youre still trying to sort me here?

[Gorkington]

so, you want me to go back and look at your ISO, and get an opinion of you, so i can post it at you, so you can then sort my opinion of you, rather than just reading the shit-ton of content ive already put into the game to try and sort me from that? you really think thats a good use of my time this close to deadline?

[Gorkington]

were you hoping that pretending like im an unknown here still would make you seem like youre scumhunting?

[Gorkington]

dont get in the way of me bullying people!!!!!

[Gorkington]

the only way i could be playing like this as scum would be if i were soloScum.

i kind of just feel like anyone who's seriously digested what ive been bringing to this game consistently from the start of d1 should probably be able to recognize this as my towngame when they have experience with it.
its pretty apparent to everyone else from what i can tell, so when you strut into the game and tell me youre paranoid of me, it makes me feel like youre either not seriously reading my posts so far or youre feigning paranoia to generate content.

i think if youre genuinely paranoid of me, you can go into my ISO and parse my stances/pushes during N2 and if you come into D3 still espousing this paranoid feeling about me then we can play the "gork sorts your slot" game.

[Gorkington]

aight i'll try to read your ISO during N2 and talk shop afterwards. i dont really see anything productive coming out of this conversation from here.

[Gorkington]

vax's ISO does not look like scum at all.

im not particularly convinced by any reasoning hes pushing for fuzzy either.
especially not the "lynch fuzzy to determine if xiao is on the level or not!"
like, yes, theres the outlandish chance that xiao tied himself to fuzzy, but hes also made himself hardcore nk bait if hes not on the nking side and has also basically tied himself to giving results from now on until endgame.
if fuzzy/xiao are scum together, its not exactly the most stable of relationships.
theres a minimal amount of information gained from a townflip on fuzzy.

havo hunting for flavour instead of scum in this game is hard to wrap my head around

[Gorkington]

Claimed he'd never do it as town.

do you think drixx fakeclaims there because of the utility of harnessing xiao's claimed role as town though?

Linked with reporter role.

can you explain this one a little more to me?

Claims cop in game.
Votes cop claim.

not sure i understand either of these.

Matches in Memory meta.

can i get some more words on what you mean by this?

@titus

, if RR is a part of the state, why would they roleblock mcmenno instead of xiao?

i dont really think i could vote drealm here titus.
can try to convince me otherwise if youd like, can maybe really compromise hard on RR if you really want even though i think their ability is townish and i somewhat believe drixx's claim/reaction to being pushed on his claim.
would really like answers on these
[being a sheep is really hard for me im sorry q.q]

p-edit: yay i dont have to make a vc

[Gorkington]

[havo's claim is really strange drealm, its one thing if you dont scumread it but townreading them hunting for flavour instead of scum is ??????]

[Gorkington]

I should say role fishing rather than outing...dumb word choice

the main reason havo wasnt lynched yesterday was that he wasnt here to claim.
i was pretty ready to push him as deadline lynch today and a claim might deter that.
but sure "LITERALLY JUST ROLEFISHING FOR NO REASON BECAUSE SCUM".
sure thing fuzzy.

[Gorkington]

gork, where you at with xiao?

i mean
i dont want to completely shit on what titus wants here
xiao is probably flipping scum, but its going to hurt the gamestate a lot for a few reasons if he does end up flipping town

[Gorkington]

like, is everyone seriously okay with havo trying to say that hes only been hunting for flavour here?
lol

[Gorkington]

i have no guarantee im going to be here for deadline
4 minutes to convince me to change my vote in case im not here

[Gorkington]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
titus
this push on drealm seems like rb in real folk blues
i really dont think this flips scum

[Gorkington]

drealm why do you like havo's claim
i dont get that at all

[Gorkington]

xiao why are you not voting

[Gorkington]

havo's most likely to actually happen at this point.
i have to go.

if drealm gets lynched and flips town im not gonna be impressed.

[Gorkington]

someone created a hood with someone
someone caused someone unable to use their abilities toDay and toNight
someone killed somoene
someone sent bomb man to someone
someone investigated someone

iunno xiao, seems kind of unlikely that you were actually redirected given dreal's claim here and more likely that you just got an inno on another player aligned with the Dead and its not in your best interest to out it as a member of the state.

[Gorkington]

if it werent for the hammer vote, i would honestly say dreal would be an okay guess for FoD given the weird resistance to havo yesterday up until the lynch, but i dont see any reason why he would give in and end up voting him when the FoD faction needs to hold it together for just a few more cycles for the pushing to start happening somewhere else.

i will say that vax is starting to ping me.
gonna sit with it today.

if we dont finish off the FoD in time, we're lynching the shit out of xiao, because he didnt actually get redirected and is 100% scum.

[Gorkington]

Was super pissed you guys lynched Havo as a "no one can agree so lynch this" vote, but it worked out! Lets wait to hear from our State cop xiao and see if we can win by killing FOD. If not we kill Fuzzy.

this in particular seems kind of off.
and the more he keeps pushing this "we need to lynch fuzzy" narrative when its been debunked multiple times by multiple people, the more im feeling its a crutch for him to not have to actually play a full game of scumhunting as scum.

[Gorkington]

@Desp, Drealmerz not town. We lynch.

sorry titus but if youre not pushing a case and youre not fighting people with direct substance on why you think drealm is scum, this really isnt going to happen.

we need to be hunting for FoD in particular right now.
can you step back from your drealm death tunnel for a second to tell me whether you actually think hes more likely to be aligned with FoD or state?
because if you feel hes aligned with state, then we shouldnt be lynching him until we need to be for that wincon anyways.
and please dont just tell me hes FoD just because you want to lynch him.
it would be really uncool of you to push someone at this stage for personal reasons rather than in-game wincon reasons.
[aka: why im not voting xiao right now in spite of me being almost 100% sure hes flipping scum here]

[Gorkington]

I don't see Xiao lying about a redirect as last scum.

this is a really weak assumption given that hes probably not last scum on the faction hes on.
titus.
if i die and you let him get away in a lategame that hopefully never happens, im going to be really upset. lol

if you have any faith in my ability to properly read people in general, you will hopefully reconsider your position.
ive tried reconsidering my positions on RR/cerb and have tried engaging you on your reads there and you ignored me, so theyve stayed the same.
part of being a townbloc means that you need to actually engage your blocmates so we're on the same page.
im willing to shift gears and play your game, but you need to help me understand why i should be doing that on a level of why is dreal FoD if you actually genuinely believe that dreal is FoD and isnt just a policy lynch.
a policy lynch is especially abhorrent in a setup where we're going to get punished really fucking hard for not finishing off the faction that we've already started clearing out.
i dont want to drive the gamestate without you, but i will if you keep trying to play leader without actually acting like a leader.

[Gorkington]

vote: vaxkiller

why did you target desp yesterday

[Gorkington]

pretty sure state wincon is either win with the Dead by clearing out FoD early or eliminate the Dead, otherwise the State's wincon would be some weird mix of dont let the Dead lynch FoD earlygame and get rid of them all lategame which seems pretty clunky.

p-edit: im asking why he made desp voteless.