Mini 561: R-1000 Mafia (Game over!)

[armlx]

Vote Lawrencelot

Just making sure the shenanigan level of this game is not an 11.

[armlx]

Vote: Andersonw

You've got to go with Obama over Clinton. Obvious scum.

Idk if its a scum tell. Preferring Huckabee would be though.

[armlx]

Idk if its a scum tell. Preferring Huckabee would be though.

that would be more indicative of sanity issues than anything else.

Note to self: Never trust the cops in Arkansas.

[armlx]

Bet Hitler is a townie.

Mod edit
Votecount:
chaotic_diablo (3): andersonw, chaotic_diablo, aioqwe
skitzer (1): ZONEACE
Lawrencelot (1): armlx
armlx (1): springlullaby
Rigel (1): opie
Dean Winchester (1): skitzer
Andersonw (1): Rigel

Not voting (2): DeanWinchester, Sarcastro.

With 11 alive it's 6 to lynch.

[armlx]

No obv its art school Hitler. In death he had time to reflect on his true passion.

Voting the mod is just what I said: to ensure the insanity level of the game isn't overly high. For examples, see DP's Bad Luck Mafia, especially the end game.

I don't see not random voting as being a tell unless it goes against your standards.

[armlx]

why "defend" Dean's actions?

If there's nothing realistically funny to joke about, I quite often do the don't feel like random voting thing and start posting once things start to progress a bit, regardless of town/scum. Just looking out for sympathizers in the "random voting can be sorta lame" boat.

But if he just lurks and snipes at people thats bad.

[armlx]

Lawrencelot (1): armlx

Unvote

for now, just note that this will have to be considered in the future.

[armlx]

Err, I'm confused here. So you can vote the mod?

In this case, yes. I'm not sure whether its indicative of anything yet, however it is worth looking out for in the future.

[armlx]

so, anyone else wanna see what happens if we lynch the mod?

I would, but I believe it should wait at least for another night. With 1 NK there's no indication of mod scum, unless he's a complete bastard and made a 12 town, 1 mod scum game...

[armlx]

so, anyone else wanna see what happens if we lynch the mod?

I would, but I believe it should wait at least for another night. With 1 NK there's no indication of mod scum, unless he's a complete bastard and made a 12 town, 1 mod scum game...

that would be absolutely HILLARIOUS, in a completely evil sort of way.

It would be. There would also have to be death miller masons, a megalomaniac SK, a random sanity cop....

[armlx]

So you obviously must have a hint into the game mechanics the rest of us are not privy to. Care to share?

Unvote, Vote Rigel

FOS aioqwe

I like role fishing. Not sure if aioqwe's was a joke or not, hence the FOS.

[armlx]

It would be. There would also have to be death miller masons, a megalomaniac SK, a random sanity cop....

But just as a follow up to my other (small) set of questions I intended to ask what particularly led you to believe these things might/ might not be in the game.

?

That post was a joke in response to the discussion of a 12 town, 1 mod scum game.

[armlx]

A death miller mason would be a mason pair that knows the other is town, but shows up as scum when they die and show up as scum to cops.

A megalomaniac SK would be an SK that was told they could kill and maybe another ability, but they actually don't and all their night choices are voided.

[armlx]

EBWODP:

Basically some of the most bastardly roles possible.

[armlx]

My vote is still on Rigel, right?

Good.

[armlx]

I agree that on its face it appears to be fishing. But if this were a true issue of scum fishing for a role, then it just seems clumsy and ham fisted.

Most role fishing tends to be that. Scum typically just want info, and don't realize how blunt they are being. Hence it being a tell, they aren't actively aware of it.

[armlx]

Hmmm.

3 Wagons so far. Opie has been on all of them. Good catch Spring Lullaby. I'll take that reasoning over random rolefishing all day.

Unvote, Vote opie

[armlx]

Opie may have been overly bandwaggoning, but I think rigel is scumier.

No doubt Rigel is scummy, but other than the person being scum what are the alternatives for fishing and wagoning? Fishing is a sign of curiosity, infi wagoning is a sign of lack of thought. I'm more inclined to believe Rigel was curious than opie doesn't think, if only slightly.

[armlx]

Your vote on Sarcastro seems to me like an attempt to push a player in an awkward scenario.

Your second Rigel vote was very wagonny, and you changed your vote as soon as the winds shifted in Deans direction.

At least, thats how I see it.

[armlx]

A hell of a lot. Rigel responded, attacked Dean, and someone else voted him.

[armlx]

I'm currently happy with an opie or Rigel lynch. Dean apparently acts this way in his other games too, so its a null tell on him and makes Rigel's attack on him a bit more scummy.

[armlx]

Just realized 2 weeks till deadline, not one. Still, point stands. Opie and Rigel are the scummiest around.

[armlx]

I'm currently happy with an opie or Rigel lynch. Dean apparently acts this way in his other games too, so its a null tell on him and makes Rigel's attack on him a bit more scummy.

So, what you're saying is that because Dean acts this way in other games, I'm scummy for attacking him for acting in such a way? When I have never played a game with Dean, nor have I read any games he was involved in, to the best of my knowledge, and would thus have no knowledge of his playing strategy? In what way does that makes sense?

You act as if these are things I automatically know. With that clarification, you attack on him made no more scummy by his play style.

Mod edit
Votecount:
Rigel (3): chaotic_diablo, DeanWinchester, Sarcastro
Dean Winchester (3): skitzer, aioqwe, opie
chaotic_diablo (1): andersonw
skitzer (1): ZONEACE
opie (1): armlx
Andersonw (1): Rigel

Not voting (1): springlullaby

With 11 alive it's 6 to lynch. Deadline: March 19

[armlx]

I can only assume he meant Rigel after that post.

[armlx]

I'm in 2 other games with Skitz, and he's doing the same thing (one he was replaced for it). I'm fairly sure its just him, not a scum tell.

[armlx]

So... Bump?

If nothing changes before the 18th, I'll hop over to Rigel to ensure we actually get to lynch someone today. No one vote him before Wednesday so he can get back and actually get a chance to defend himself / claim in defense if he needs to.

[armlx]

It should get interesting. Rigel is coming back and can speak for himself now.

[armlx]

I am currently voting for Opie, but as deadline approaches I will vote for Rigel to ensure a lynch on a legitimately scummy person. I was hoping to advance more on opie today, but w/e.

[armlx]

Waiting for Sunday to hammer. Rigel, now would be a good time to post and claim.

Mod edit
Votecount:
Rigel (3): chaotic_diablo, DeanWinchester, opie
skitzer (2): ZONEACE, Sarcastro
Dean Winchester (1): aioqwe
opie (1): armlx
Andersonw (1): Rigel

Not voting (3): springlullaby, skitzer, andersonw

With 11 alive it's 6 to lynch. Deadline: March 19

[armlx]

Unvote, Vote Rigel

Unvote for Sarcastro, no revote for him yet.

That claim is enough for this IMO.

[armlx]

Yeah, on the topic of not voting Rigel yet, thats why Sarc's vote isn't there. No one else should vote Rigel right now btw. He will just die at deadline anyway, no need to rush.

[armlx]

Rigel's claim seems believable, though I'm still getting a nagging feeling. I'll place a vote by the deadline.

unvote

I do not like this post.

FOS CD

Rigel is still obv scum though.

[armlx]

I get the feeling that this is more of a safe claim. To me, a vanilla claim does not prove to me one way or another.

I endorse this product.

[armlx]

-Mass-claiming is allowed, but not recommended, as the mafia has safeclaims available.

Skitz, the scum have safe claims.

[armlx]

RigelScum is getting desperate. Look at him squirm.

[armlx]

Look at it. Hmm, vote Andersonw. Crap, too close to deadline, must get Dean lynched.

[armlx]

There is really absolutely no excuse for anyone not to be voting at this point. Seriously, that's just terrible play.

Says Mr. just voted last page.

[armlx]

Rigel: I'm hardly buddy-buddy. Just with your claim and the impending dead line and your latest vote hopping I'm very inclined to I'm inclined to believe you are scum.

Sarc: I was counting you proxying your vote as not voting.

[armlx]

Sure, I totally agree, I was just pointing out the irony of your statement.

Still proxying > doing jack shit.

[armlx]

I think that outside the claim he is scummier, but the townie claim just makes you the better lynch for today. Plus ensuring a good lynch for deadline and what not.

I'm hardly "allying". I'm merely pointing out he was right about your claim. Then he agreed with me. I was going to cite that as him buddying me in my arguments later ironically.....

[armlx]

If your claim was confirmable in any way, yes, i would believe you more.

[armlx]

Vote Chaotic Diablo

Votes himself, lurks, then unvotes in response to the claim then revotes while saying the wagon is fishy.

[armlx]

JUST A FORWARD NOTICE:

We are not quick lynching CD. Once he hits 3 votes, anyone else who votes him before he has an adequate chance to talk is EXTREMELY suspect.

[armlx]

anderson: We still have another day after this till lynch or lose with a standard 9-3 set up. Even if 3 town vote CD, if 2 mafia quick lynched him after that would be incredibly dumb for them.

Self voting is only anti-town. At worst it was him trying to get out of random voting without showing connections accidentally. At the least its him voting for someone who, if he is town, is 100% confirmed pro-town.

[armlx]

I don't have to tell you how unreasonable/stupid that logic is. Random voting isn't an obligation and it isn't scummy if I don't feel like joining in.

Yes it is, and yes it is. Random voting serves to establish connections and cause accidental slips, leading to relevant discussion that doesn't give away pro-town role info. In a standard closed set up (aka things that aren't CotI/Masons and Mafia) random voting does not harm the town at all. Therefore, as it can only benefit the town, refusing to do it is refusing to help the town, which is scummy.

[armlx]

vote: Dean Winchester

Now, I'm not denying that CD is scum, but DW miniscue reasoning there seems to be just based off what others have said. You could add something to that if you truly thought he was scum.

A quick meta of Dean shows this is what he does and he is constantly attacked for it.

[armlx]

That isn't very good game play though, IMO.

No one disagrees. However, I have learned bad players change on their own faster from discussion like this than lynches. Or they don't change at all.

[armlx]

You can't try to counter the logic you have been acting scummy by saying the tried and true logic is wrong. You can give non-scummy reasons for your actions and let us decide what we want to do with you.

[armlx]

Not at all.

I am not familiar with your play style. The last game I played with you was ~2 years ago. Many things change.

I also don't like you saying "Unvote Rigel, believe his claim, but leave open possibility of HAMMAH time".

Mod edit
Votecount:
chaotic_diablo (3): armlx, ZONEACE, DeanWinchester

Not voting (6): aioqwe, andersonw, chaotic_diablo, opie, skitzer, springlullaby

With 9 alive it's 5 to lynch.

[armlx]

Although it's still not the most intelligent strategy, the way armlx and zoneace they could probably convince the town to lynch someone else that joined the wagon at lylo...

WIFOM of the more experienced players being worse off for the town if they are scum, therefore they should be suspect, is duely noted.

[armlx]

It was mostly inteded as a joke but I found it interesting how Zoneace is basically following your every move.

This is a better argument to frame than the previous one. Care to give examples and thoughts on what it means?

[armlx]

Each of zoneace's 3 posts today:

#179: a vote on CD right after armlx's. His argument emphasizes CD post after his prod, which is basically his unvote and later revote that armlx covered.
#187: He states self-votes are bad because of lack of participation 2 posts after armlx said self-votes are bad because one is refusing to develop connections.
#195: He mentions the meta on Dean and how he shouldn't be attacked for it. Similar to armlx's post (Although it doesn't out right say we shouldn't vote Dean for his one-liners, it still holds the message, for example, look at skitz's unvote right after)

It did set off a small alarm that he might be buddying up to you. On that note, it also might be worth it to note that in 195, he leaves the nice opportunity to come back to dean for his one-liners.

Thats about what I assumed you meant by it.

CD: Why vote for him if you thought he was town, regardless of the deadline lynch. I'm pretty sure he was dead regardless....

[armlx]

CD: What would have convinced you of Rigel's innocence? What was strange about rigel's wagon?

opie's attack on me.

What does that have to do with Rigel?

vote:Opie

As per yesterday, I also endorse this wagon behind the CD one.

[armlx]

Hardly. Random voting is meant to be not truly random as it can leave trails for later on. Self voting isn't random, but it doesn't leave any trails. And last I checked, trying to cover your connections to people in games that aren't Call of the illuminati is scummy.