Mini 1975: A Village in the Woods (Game Over!)

[mutantdevle]

I think we should begin our search for the culprit by trying to find out why the wrong doers in life would choose to kill Socrates rather than anyone else present. My theory would be it was because he was our mayor (RIP Socrates). I overheard Ghostlin and penguin_alien discussing their aspirations to be mayor themselves last Sunday. They’d have the perfect motivation to want Socrates dead.

VOTE: Ghostly Penguin

[mutantdevle]

Am I the only one who spent a good 5 minutes thinking who their favourite historian was? I was actually very disappointed when I read rule 11 because I had put so much effort into thinking of an answer.

[mutantdevle]

Tbh, all this talk of rule 11 is as irrelevant as our existence. This is what would be a better thing to start with:

Spicy take: We don't know that mafia has pre-game or day chat. Scum!Hopkirk slips they do in 31 in their logic, while a town!Joey_ doesn't take that approach in 35, thus indicating he is likely to be town. +1, 36 is kind of unnatural. Toptier for dealm's spicefeed in 37; add a little bit more of spice for Raya's 39 for "lowering [their] townlean on kirk" for that reason. Brew dish, serve hot.

I like the spice better than discussing setup/confirmation semantics.

You call it spice but this is technically setup spec. Confirmation spec is bs, but setup spec is what we should be looking at. We all came into this game with the description that the game will be complex and flavour intensive. It's been made clear to us that we don't get to know all the mechanics that are at play as well as that there may be more to our role cards than what is written. The main reason I read the rules is to see if there was any information up front about what these interesting mechanics would be and what standard mechanics were in play. But alas, the rules said nothing. The only real mechanics we currently know exists is that the lynching system goes off a simple majority and the length of this day. We don't know if day lengths are going to be consistent. We don't know if the time we don't use is bankable. We don't know if scum had pregame chat. We don't know if scum has day chat. Maybe the scum doesn't even get a night chat and are forced to talk during the day? Perhaps, there is no scum and the game ends when we realise that and consciously no lynch? For all we know, this game could even be nightless. Obviously, I don't believe in all these theories. But the point is, we are in the dark here. We don't know what forces are in play. Not knowing all the mechanics is something that made this game appeal to me and I'm hoping that theorising about the setup and the mechanics is going to be a reoccurring theme throughout this game.

If you go through all of my scumgames you'll see there's never been a case where scum didn't get pregame chat. I'm fairly sure it's been in place for all of my towngames too. How frequent is it that scum don't have pre-game chat? It sounds like you're scumreading me because I assume there's a mechanic that's been in every game I've ever read.

I've only recently started playing on this site but I have played many mafia games before on another one that isn't solely devoted to the game. As such, my core knowledge of the game was spawned from a completely different mafia culture. Where I come from, pre-game chat basically never existed and day chat was incredibly rare and often only permitted whilst the mafia enforcer was alive. However, every game I have played so far on this site the scum seem to have been granted day chat. So could other people clarify if they also have had the experience that scum pregame chat is commonplace? I reckon that if the scum truly does have pregame chat then I think they would be likely to have day chat as well.

[mutantdevle]

What site do you hail from, out of curiosity?

The everybody edits (EE) forums. EE is a multiple dying sandbox flash game with a small community that is active on its forums. Under the 'forum' games section we occasionally play mafia. I fell in love with mafia from the very moment I started playing it. The main problem with mafia on this site though is that only half of us take it seriously. Hence, I am very used to and tolerant of lurkers. There's also only usually 1 game at a time so if you don't like the setup then there's not a lot you can do about it. There is also basically no replacements so it sucks if someone goes inactive. Additionally, days on that site were only 72 hours so I'm more used to having to find reads early and post a lot of content in such a short time. Due to being used to playing under these conditions, you may find that my playstyle consists of over analysing small details and posting a lot of lengthy posts.

[mutantdevle]

@Mutant: what reads have you got so far then, over a third of the way in?

If anyone needs me to elaborate on this list then feel free to ask but since there has yet to be much posting I don't think there is much to be elaborated on.

Town:

None

Town Lean:

Raya36
drealmerz7
Joey_
Bins
moonbird

Null:

PMysterious
cytheflyguy
Albert B. Rampage
Ibuki Meowda
Hopkirk

Scum Lean:

mozamis
Ghostly Penguin

Scum:

None

[mutantdevle]

Town Lean:

Raya36
drealmerz7

Bins

I'm going to need clarification on if you are asking for clarification.

[mutantdevle]

My question has to do with less clarification of reads and more to do with the the list itself. Early days yet, but you're not particularly passionate/dispassionate about anyone? If not, why?

--Ghost

I guess I'm just not really as quick to have strong reads as most others. That may surprise you given my short day history but on the other site my leans would be my strong reads. Here though, don't like being so quick to trust or to push overs. The more content I see in a person, the better I can read them. Since it's still early days, I obviously don't have strong reads on anyone. My reads on everyone here could change at any time, those reads are based on first impressions and gut feelings. I don't usually start voting or pushing my reads until late day 1.

UNVOTE:
RVS is over.

[mutantdevle]

@mutant Would love your take on Ghosts, as they're sitting low in the scumlsits. I actually kind of like their above wall.

I would just like to play a game of mafia. Not having an uninformed majority versus an informed minority is not mafia,
it's narrative storytelling where the players all agree to kill each other by democracy every day and we chase boogeymen and that may be my cup of tea if I know that's what I'm getting into. Scum most likely, barring the mod getting REAL creative, have a chat. When it's open is not super relevant until the mechanics of the game reveal themselves for it to be super relevant. I would presume that some of the other players are trying to kill you unless proven otherwise.

This just felt forced to me. They were replying to something I specifically stated I only mentioned as an example rather than something I genuinely believed. Hence, it did not need refuting nor did any of my wild theories need any discussion.

[mutantdevle]

@Mutant: I was curious about the Bins read as of 72 (excluded posts after you said that).

Post 67 seems townie to me. I guess I just kinda like the acknowledgment of the shit posting and the promises of it to stop; not that I had a problem with the shit posting.

[mutantdevle]

Raya attacking me versus the people actually on her wagon seems like a scum thing to do, as well.

So.. OMGUS?

I do like raya for scum. His posts ring hollow and scummy.

This is the only case against Raya currently stated. Anyone care to give a reason for why they view Raya as scummy? I'm just a little sceptical of this sheeping that's going on.

[mutantdevle]

You're all sheeping onto my wagon because my posts are hollow, I'm scummy, and one of my posts was wishy washy.

I think I understand what they mean by your posts are hollow since here it seems like you are trying to make a point but failing to do so. It sounds more like the words someone attacking you would use instead of you using them as a defence (which is what I assume you are trying to do?).

[mutantdevle]

why do you town read Raya?

It's only a town lean rather than a town read but that's just semantics. The read is based on how Raya is contributing to discussion without doing anything that makes me consider them scummy. I would like them to do a little more scum hunting rather than scum reading but it's early days yet and you can't really blame anyone for not having strong reads or pushes.

[mutantdevle]

I firmly believe Raya is a bad lynch. 116 142Mutant pings me doe. 75 seems weird but idk if that's IA. 100 feels like it's an excuse to be wishy-washy. I def want to push him.

VOTE: mutantdevle

Push me in what way? I assume this is a pressure vote rather than a push for a lynch wagon but I don't really understand what you are pushing me on since you haven't really asked me any questions.

I'm guessing your problem with me is that I don't have any strong reads? If that is the case then I'm not so sure why that warrants a pressure vote. My reads aren't going to magically change from that unless players start being incredibly townie or incredibly scummy. Since reading over all the new posts today, I remarked to myself that Hopkirk looked townie. So consider my null read of him bumped up to a town read. But honestly, I'm not so sure what you are trying to achieve with your post.

[mutantdevle]

I firmly believe Raya is a bad lynch. 116 142Mutant pings me doe. 75 seems weird but idk if that's IA. 100 feels like it's an excuse to be wishy-washy. I def want to push him.

VOTE: mutantdevle

Push me in what way? I assume this is a pressure vote rather than a push for a lynch wagon but I don't really understand what you are pushing me on since you haven't really asked me any questions.

I'm guessing your problem with me is that I don't have any strong reads? If that is the case then I'm not so sure why that warrants a pressure vote. My reads aren't going to magically change from that unless players start being incredibly townie or incredibly scummy. Since reading over all the new posts today, I remarked to myself that Hopkirk looked townie. So consider my null read of him bumped up to a town read. But honestly, I'm not so sure what you are trying to achieve with your post.

I'm using push to mean pressure. I'm not saying that it's bad to not have any strong reads. I'm saying that it's bad to explain how on the fence you're going to be playing. It's like you're explaining how safe you'll be playing so that people who feel that it's scummy to vote where it is convenient, you'll point to this as a way to say how open minded you're playing. I've seen more scum than town be on the fence about reads, so this pings me.

I assure you have no intention for my reads to stay on the fence. When I strongly scum read someone, I will push them hard and demand all sorts of things from them. When I strongly town read someone, I will trust them and listen to their opinions more. I have no intention of playing safe and I almost never sheep. I do look like to keep an open mind though. But being openminded does not mean that I'll always be on the fence. It just means I'm willing to listen and change my point of view if I am persuaded to.

[mutantdevle]

hopkirk / moz mafia maybe? with a dash of drealmerz7

Care to explain why you think that about these 3 individuals?

I'm especially interested in your read on hopkirk in particular since you are now voting for him.

[mutantdevle]

I'm willing to vote dreal as well. He's normally more involved last time I saw him as town.

My only game with dreal was when he was scum and he was way more active then as well. I think dreal is just generally more active and that there's a non-AI reason that he currently isn't posting so much.

[mutantdevle]

I still scumread raya.

VOTE: mutantdevle

I'm assuming this is based on not being satisfied with my above responses, but a little clarification would be appreciated.

[mutantdevle]

I'm especially interested in your read on hopkirk in particular since you are now voting for him.

i'd be surprised if hopkirk was scum, the guy is so active.

Activity is a townie trait but is easily replicated by scum. Hopkirk's posts are of good quality though which is harder to fake (but still possible).

[mutantdevle]

ibuki will do things later

Such as respond to my question in post 206?

[mutantdevle]

@mozamis could you give a reads list, please? No explanations are needed for now as I just wanna see where you are at.

[mutantdevle]

@dreal are you going to post properly or are you going to be a robot ALL game?

[mutantdevle]

Mutant or raya, which one do you prefee to lynch guys?

Mainly based on what others are saying about you which I'm tossing around in my mind.

Since you consider me as up there with Raya, I'd like you to elaborate on exactly why you find me scummy. The reason you previously gave is sheepy at best and rather unclear. I don't exactly understand why you are putting me on the same platform as Raya either since far more people have been suspicious of Raya than they have of me.

[mutantdevle]

Sorry for being so inactive in this game everyone.

I'm going to do a full re-read of this thread + ISOs + reads list later today / tomorrow.

[mutantdevle]

Okay, so I made some notes to myself after re-reading the entire thread and came up with a reads list based on that. I then ISOed everyone with the initial reads list as a guide to see if moments of context correlate to their overall behaviour. I also thought it would be nice to indicate how my reads have changed from my last reads list which I'm going to do in all my reads lists from now on. So here's my current reads list:

Town:

Raya36

^1

Joey_

^1

Town Lean:

drealmerz7

-0

Bins

-0

moonbird

-0

cytheflyguy

^1

Ibuki Meowda

^1

Null:

Hopkirk

v1

Ghostly Penguin

^1

Scum Lean:

PMysterious

v1

Albert B. Rampage

v1

Scum:

mozamis

v1

Just to clarify, aside from the headers, my reads lists are never in any particular order. Eg. I lean town just as much on Ibuki as I do drealmerz.

My next 3 posts are going to talk about drealmerz, Rampage and mozamis. I do not plan to explain any of my other reads unless I am asked to do so.

[mutantdevle]

A lot of people see drealmerz actions as scummy and I doubt anyone sees anything he has done so far as townie. Hence, it may confuse you as to why I town lean him. The only game I have played with drealmerz was fairly recently and he was scum. In that game, I struggled to read him. This game, I have also been struggling to read him. But last game, I got scummy vibes from him. He just felt really scummy to me but I couldn't place it on anything he was doing in the game. Despite the scummy vibes, his lack of scummy actions caused me to second guess this read on him which essentially caused my own death through my own night action. This game, there is again no real consistent actions I can point to and say makes him town but I am just getting townie vibes from him.

In his scum game, drealmerz was confident. He asserted himself and made strong cases and was almost presenting his opinion as fact. As a result, he was heavily manipulating town who lost the game. I feel kinda responsible for that town loss since if I hadn't have forgotten to crumb then my death would have caused drealmerz to be lynched day 2. But my point is, he was a lot different as scum. He wasn't just active, he was confident in everything he was doing which made him look like the most genuine player there. Here, he isn't like that at all. He's shitposting and just barely scum hunting. He is definitely acting laid back this game and is having fun with his posts rather than trying to solve the game. My interpretation of drealmerz's internet persona leads me to believe that this is exactly the kind of thing he would do as town.

[mutantdevle]

@Albert B. Rampage

Mutant or raya, which one do you prefee to lynch guys?

Mainly based on what others are saying about you which I'm tossing around in my mind.

Since you consider me as up there with Raya, I'd like you to elaborate on exactly why you find me scummy. The reason you previously gave is sheepy at best and rather unclear. I don't exactly understand why you are putting me on the same platform as Raya either since far more people have been suspicious of Raya than they have of me.

I still expect you to reply to this. I know that you're VLA an'all but you have made 6 posts since I asked this question and any one of them could have, at the very least, acknowledged the question by saying you'll reply at a later time.

[mutantdevle]

Why do you want to explain Rampage but not Pmys?

It's more obvious as to what PMys scummy actions are.

[mutantdevle]

As I was making notes of posts that stood out to me for my reads lists, I found mozamis was sticking out a lot, but for all the wrong reasons.

His first post that pinged me was post 55 where he votes for Joey. In this post he claims that Joey was sheeping hopkirk's take on rule 11. This strikes me as odd because not only did Joey explain his thought process in post 35 but he also reached a different conclusion to that of what hopkirk did. Therefore, Joey was in no way sheeping. Joey even points this out himself 2 posts later in post 57.

Hows that sheeping when i exposed my thought process 10 minutes after he asked me to, and my answer was much more detailed than his, do you think i made that up just for the sake of sheeping in the 10 minutes kirk asked me to explain my tought process?

mozamis never directly addresses the points raised in this question and continues to insist the post was sheeping even though it clearly wasn't. In my opinion, this accusation of sheeping would have been fine if mozamis admitted he was wrong. However, he does not and instead tries to justify the sheeping accusation:

It's RVS. How is sheeping someone at all indicative at this point?

to me it looke dlike hopkirk was thinking for himself and scum hunting. Then Joey comes in and repeats the same point. looked like scum trying to find something to post.

It's RVS. How is sheeping someone at all indicative at this point?

to me it looke dlike hopkirk was thinking for himself and scum hunting. Then Joey comes in and repeats the same point. looked like scum trying to find something to post.

Take it in context: it's the only point of discussion at the time. In the entire thread. His thought process is also completely different than that of Kirk--while they do reach similar conclusions, it is different.

maybe, at least the guy defended himsefl wuite well i thought.

if nothing else, its been a good way of getting out of RVS

@ joey =thought i had already answered this, but try an dlook at from my P.O.V - hopkirk makes some points, and you come in and go "me, too"! Maybe i was reaching, but to me it looked maybe like you were just sheeping him as scum sometimes do to look town.
still, you been very annoyed about it, which makes think maybe you are town. Whatevr. More interested in raya atm.

What particularly pinged me out of all of these posts was this:

Then Joey comes in and repeats the same point.

This is a blatant misrepresentation of what Joey had said. He went into a lot more detail and reached a different conclusion. This is fundamentally not the 'same point' and I fail to see how you could not see that. The only motive I can see behind misrepresenting Joey like this is a scummy one.

Also in post 87 he jumps onto the Raya wagon with no justification. So... he sheeped onto the wagon? Is this not the exact thing he was currently criticising Joey for at the time? Scum are naturally more hypocritical than town since they have to accuse others of being scum. Furthermore, the Raya wagon was a very easy wagon at the time since almost nobody joining it was saying why. As scum, moz could have just tried to boost the wagon in its youth to increase the chances of a lynch and claimed innocence when it resulted in the death of a townie.

This is when mozamis finally justifies his read on Raya:

his posts are really vague
who do you think is scum?

Does no one seem the irony of that post? Again, this is moz being hypocritical.

Finally, I think this sums up how mozamis is approaching this game:

not sure raya is scummy enough to justify lynching

mozamis doesn't seem to be about trying to find scum. It's about him trying to find justification to get people lynched, not scum tells. He doesn't unvote Raya because he no longer thinks she is scum, he unvotes because he'd no longer be able to justify being on the wagon now that it's fallen apart. And earlier, he tries to put forth justification for his read on Joey. He seemed to care more about not looking scummy than he did sorting Joey.

So mozamis has done some scummy things. And the way he has been playing comes from a scummy motive. I say we lynch this.

VOTE: mozamis

[mutantdevle]

hmm
mutant's tone is really idk, interesting. it feels very carefully crafted and like kinda manipulative or weird.

maybe it's just his style, but to me the tone feels off

If I got money for everytime someone has mentioned the tone of my posts then the only manipulation I'd be doing is bribing people

I can assure you that it's just the way I tend to write, not just in mafia but on the internet in general. It's carefully crafted in the sense that I do put thought into everything I write. However, my intention is to persuade others of my point of view rather than manipulate them. Regardless, none of it is AI for me (any quick meta check of me can prove that if you are doubtful).

[mutantdevle]

Town:
Raya36 ^1
Joey_ ^1

how on earth are you town reading raya?

Why is anyone scum reading her? I have stated several times that I don't see the scum in her that others see. There is no strong cases or reasons on here that anyone has given, only simple 1 liners about her. So no, I'm not going to sheep read her like most other people. If any of you think she is scum then give your reasons. Make a case.

[mutantdevle]

This game, there is again no real consistent actions I can point to and say makes him town but I am just getting townie vibes from him.

this is so vague "yeah he's town cos i say so" - not good enough.

I don't get why you would isolate this sentence on its own when there is so much more to my explanation of this read other than to try and make people consider my statement in a different light. I don't care for trying to make other people think he is town and I am by no means going to defend him if a wagon forms on him. I was simply giving an explanation as to why I personally town lean him as it is, of course, questionable as to why I would town lean someone who has done barely anything. I find drealmerz hard to read. Despite this, last game I played with him I got scummy vibes that turned out to be correct. This game, I'm getting town vibes. My logic here is based on a simple anecdotal pattern that I would not expect anyone else to follow.

[mutantdevle]

the above is for mutant and joey - not sure if mutant is scum trying to misrep, or maybe he missed this. But i clearly answered that a long time ago.

This was the point/question made:

Hows that sheeping when i exposed my thought process 10 minutes after he asked me to, and my answer was much more detailed than his, do you think i made that up just for the sake of sheeping in the 10 minutes kirk asked me to explain my tought process?

This was your answer:

@ joey =thought i had already answered this, but try an dlook at from my P.O.V - hopkirk makes some points, and you come in and go "me, too"! Maybe i was reaching, but to me it looked maybe like you were just sheeping him as scum sometimes do to look town.

In your own words, this response was

not good enough.

You do not address the fact that Joey explained his thought process in such a short amount of time and you do no address the level of detail that Joey explains his thought process in. There was NO WAY this was sheeping at all. Sure, you might not have noticed the timestamps in your original accusation. But it has been pointed out by Joey here yet you still claim that it looked like he was sheeping in your answer. "Maybe I was reaching". No. You were most definitely reaching and it comes across as scummy. Your answer looks like you are trying to back down from a poorly made point without looking unreasonable through the use of your maybes and the neglection of 2 details within the question.

[mutantdevle]

VOTE: Albert B. Rampage

I'm perfectly fine with a wagon building on one of my scum leans. mozamis is still by top scum read though.

[mutantdevle]

VOTE: mozamis

Can we stay on this now?

[mutantdevle]

@Bins, what is your read on moz and would you be prepared to compromise lynch him?

[mutantdevle]

Mutant’s posting flet like opportunism and i disliked it

I'm assuming the opportunistic parts you are referring to are my votes? In which case I don't really see what is wrong with joining wagons against my scum reads as they grow. I'm perfectly content with any one of my scum leans and scum reads being lynched but my preference is Moz > Rampage > PMys.

You also stated earlier that you felt the way I was scum hunting was scummy as I was using "objectively true info" and that my case was "hard to disagree with". You claim that is a scum trait but IMO it's just a strong case... like I'm not entirely sure what makes this scummy? Sure, arguments against people can have flaws in them, but you shouldn't EXPECT them to be flawed and deem them as scummy if they are not. Correct me if I am wrong, but is scum hunting not looking at people's actions and then figuring out the intent and motive behind them? The actions Moz has done are facts. The scum reading part comes from the potential motive behind that "objectively true info" which I have claimed to be of scummy intent. If you town read him, then it means you disagree with what I have claimed to be his motive.

[mutantdevle]

Mutant’s posting flet like opportunism and i disliked it

I'm assuming the opportunistic parts you are referring to are my votes? In which case I don't really see what is wrong with joining wagons against my scum reads as they grow. I'm perfectly content with any one of my scum leans and scum reads being lynched but my preference is Moz > Rampage > PMys.

You also stated earlier that you felt the way I was scum hunting was scummy as I was using "objectively true info" and that my case was "hard to disagree with". You claim that is a scum trait but IMO it's just a strong case... like I'm not entirely sure what makes this scummy? Sure, arguments against people can have flaws in them, but you shouldn't EXPECT them to be flawed and deem them as scummy if they are not. Correct me if I am wrong, but is scum hunting not looking at people's actions and then figuring out the intent and motive behind them? The actions Moz has done are facts. The scum reading part comes from the potential motive behind that "objectively true info" which I have claimed to be of scummy intent. If you town read him, then it means you disagree with what I have claimed to be his motive.

About the opportunism part you are correct, the vote, the timing and how it happened felt like there was some mefias on it. Also, you fosed rampage yet you shouldve/couldve/wouldve showed intent to join me and batman. I also am baised because i personnaly think that batman's a way worser lynch than rampage and thus, anything that looks like opportunism looks scummier on a bad lynch (batman) versus a correct lynch (rampage)

About your my comments on your case, you are incorrect. I do not scumread you for your case nor how it was done. I was just saying that the way it was done and the content of it reminds me of a scum case. That being said, i believe you have a posting style is that marginally different than most and i think it does transpire into how you wouldve done that case. THUS basically i dont think its ai for you to have done an objectively true case even tho its, often, a scum trait. Am i being clear? Also, your case is correct and yes batman's early stuff sucked dicks like no one can disagree but like i said earlier, i liked some of his stuff and errors like he did early on is not like, out of the ordinary for town at all.

I wished you showed more intent (from memory) onto rampage.

Yeah, I get everything your saying. You're right about it not being AI for me. I'd like to think that I don't play by alignment but rather I play by role, resulting in basically nothing about me being AI. I wouldn't know though since I've never actually had a proper scum game (the only scum game I've had ended prematurely when the mod accidentally posted the scum team in the role card of my scum buddy that was lynched). Your read on Moz is fair enough but obviously, I disagree.

As for my lack of intent shown on rampage it's honestly because there isn't much to it. My read of him is null based on his general lack of activity and contribution. But then he failed to answer one of my questions which pushed that down to a scum lean making him someone I'd be more than happy to lynch. I find it incredibly scummy when people avoid questions and I will often tunnel people until I am satisfied with their answer.

[mutantdevle]

I made a list of the reasons everyone is currently voting moz for:

cytheflyguy - Agrees with me.
drealmerz7 - Doesn't say. (Assuming he agrees with me based on context).
mutantdevle - 360.
Dunkerdoodles - Scum read moz from early play.
Ibuki Meowda - Doesn't say. (Assuming they agree with me based on context).
Raya36 - 116

This will be more relevant once moz flips.

[mutantdevle]

12 hours left. I'll look through the ISO to see if a hammer is warranted.

Lol no, don't hammer. We are waiting for a role claim.

[mutantdevle]

Judging by the time on mozamis' posts, he should on in an hour or 2.

[mutantdevle]

claim: doctor

Breadcrumbed it here:

to me it looke

d

like h

o

pkirk was thinking for himself and s

c

um hun

t

ing. Then J

o

ey comes in and

r

epeats the same point. looked like scum trying to find something to post.

I'm heavily conflicted on if I believe you right now...

I think we all have to ask ourselves, what was the fucking point in that? And by that, I mean your breadcrumb. I believe you that you were breadcrumbing here, but why? There are 2 reasons why people breadcrumb. First of all, to let people know who they targetted. It's currently day 1 so ofc you didn't crumb for that reason. The second reason is to try and let people know what your role is. More specifically, stay subtle so that hopefully town members pick up on it but scum lords don't. Your crumb here is BEYOND subtle. There was no way at all that anyone would figure that out. So clearly you haven't crumbed for either of the 2 beneficial reasons PRs crumb. So why have you crumbed here? To me, this looks like you anticipated being forced to role claim. As a result, you wanted to lay something down to reinforce your claim. The only purpose this crumb serves is to fish for town cred, and I don't like the sound of that.

Had you just role claimed and not crumbed, I would have immediately unvoted. But due to your nonsensical and scummy crumbing, I'm more reluctant. You're going to have to say something more convincing.


Obviously, having a dead doctor is really bad. But a claimed doctor is pretty much a dead one anyway. If we don't lynch you, you get shot. If you don't get shot, we lynch you under the assumption you are fake claiming scum.

[mutantdevle]

yeah it’s too bad i’ll hammer in like 30

No, don't do that.

Wait for him to reply. I wanna talk this out with him first.

[mutantdevle]

I'm really not liking

D

realms 442 as well as the

o

ther post I mentioned. That being said, I feel like this is lyn

c

h bai

t

and sh

o

uldn't be lynched, in case anothe

r

huge wagon happens out of fucking nowhere.

just provin to myself how dumb the crumb is

When you put it that way, I'm not too sure I believe the crumb is legit either.

Every way you look at it this crumb just doesn't make any sense...

[mutantdevle]

How did you think the crumb would help you avoid a mislynch?

[mutantdevle]

Do you not see that hiding the word doctor in your post is no more evidence that you are the doctor as you simply saying it is? If anything, it's just a sign to me that you are/were insecure about people believing you which is more likely to come from a scum frame of mind in my opinion.

[mutantdevle]

The more I think about it, the less and less I believe you. I just don't see any reason why a crumb of this sort could seem like a good idea to anyone. Your claim, in general, seems dodgy. I find it easy to back up all your actions with scum motive but I struggle to see the town logic behind it. For all we know, you could be fishing for a doc counterclaim to take out with you.

All logic points towards you being scum, but I'm just so paranoid that you are genuinely the doctor and I'm second guessing myself. I have no more questions to ask you and I'm not going to unvote for now. But please, if you are the doc, give us something to work with?

[mutantdevle]

If you think it would help then obviously yes.

[mutantdevle]

moz, instead of rowing with dreal, could you give a reads list or explain your thoughts on at least 1 person?

[mutantdevle]

ALSO I HAVE NO FLAVOUR
can someone confirm if they have a name

Tbh, that sounds a little like PR fishing IMO. Just a passing thought.

[mutantdevle]

Moz, ignore drealmerz for now until you finish getting your reads out. Twilight could end at any moment so don't waste time where you don't need to.

[mutantdevle]

"Hippocrates of Kos (Hippokrátēs ho Kṓos; c. 460 – c. 370 BC), also known as Hippocrates II, was a Greek physician of the Age of Pericles (Classical Greece), and is considered one of the most outstanding figures in the history of medicine."
-wikipedia

Kos = moz?

I wish I saw your flavour reveal before bins hammered...

[mutantdevle]

Not that I'm blaming bins btw, I'm just pointing out that the doc claim is legit.

[mutantdevle]

Is Hippocrates supposed to be well known then or something? Because I have literally never heard of him before.

[mutantdevle]

Is Hippocrates supposed to be well known then or something? Because I have literally never heard of him before.

probably something you should learn in like 5th grade...

Not everyone in the world is American...

[mutantdevle]

Is Hippocrates supposed to be well known then or something? Because I have literally never heard of him before.

probably something you should learn in like 5th grade...

Not everyone in the world is American...

?????????????????????

what does the super-continent one lives on have anything to do with this?

Different education curriculum. We don't get taught about Hippocrates in England. This is getting a little off topic though.

[mutantdevle]

Don’t place anymore votes. On mobile RN but when I get home I have some shit to share.

[mutantdevle]

@Mutant: Don't share shit until Dreal expands on what he means. It's obvious enough already.

I thought everyone would blindly follow dreal's result but since people are more hesitant I don't feel I need to release as much as I originally planned to.

I fucking hate village, honestly. You're all a bunch of miserable fucking trolls that I really can't stand. Eh, it's probably because I just don't like people. People suck. I used to be a detective, and I've studied people. I used to want to try and use that to better people, but all it did was show me even deeper layers of how much most people suck. I moved to this puny dinky little village to get away from as many people as possible and live a simpler life. HOnestly, my fellow villagers who die here probably fucking deserve it to some degree, but that doesn't mean some other stupid evil shits should get away with killing them, and I'd rather some useless shitty fuck people who are actually loyal to the village come out on top than some piece of shit crime element that has infiltrated, so I've decided to put my detective skills to use and find you fucks.

This flavour makes me think that dreal is telling the truth about his role and getting a guilty result on bins.

i have a very confirmable PR and mutant was my target last night and he can pretty much confirm it

Can confirm.

i have 3 inventions to give people and mutant has one

Just to clarify, is your role a 3-shot or do you just have 3 different things to choose from when giving an invention?

also given the invention i gave mutant there is no way i’m a scum role

Can confirm. The invention I received would not benefit scum at all. The flavour I received supports the inventor claim and someone aligned with scum would simply not give me such an invention.

you have to tell us all of your inventions, bins, I think

at the least tell us what you gave mutant, and everything you know about it

I disagree with this post. The only reason bins would have to post any of this information is town cred. Bins isn't getting lynched today so no more information on her end needs revealing. Only scum would benefit from increased knowledge.

I'm definitely TOWN, and if there are more than 1 faction or groupscum and soloscum - it can make sense

yeah it says town i literally double checked if i had someone mistaken my faction lmfao

Just to clarify, do both of your roles specifically state and use the word town to describe your alignments?

joey looked like flavour cop

I disagree. The name sounds more like a universal backup to me. Eg. gets a job once one is available because the previous owner of said job is dead. Discussion around the flavour of the deaths and setup spec is something I wanted to get into once I saw the nature of the 2 night kills but obviously it has been overshadowed by all these claims and accusations. I'm hoping we can move on to the setup and flavour spec once we get the rest of this sorted.

why did you pick to give what you did to mutant?

I'm fairly certain I know the answer myself but I don't think it would be a good idea for either of us to answer this question.

Maybe if you 'hate everyone' you're an insane/paranoid/modified sanity cop. Anything in your role suggest this?

This is a good theory IMO and I could easily see that being the case.




In short, Bins is almost definitely town. I received what could easily be described as an invention (it was described as a 'tool') on my doorstep last night and the function of said invention is inherently townie. The only way a scum lord would give such a thing to me would be if they were completely fucking stupid and has no idea how to play. I was never told who gave me the tool or if they were town themselves but since no one else is claiming to have given me anything I fully believe Bins' claim.

If anyone is a redirector, or has any such ability that can change a user's target, then I think they should claim. For now though, I'm assuming drealmerz is a detective that always gets guilty's on his results as the flavour he has given sounds truthful.

[mutantdevle]

Is it not obvious that drealmerz didn't copy paste his flavour message? He's clearly written it in his own words. You can easily tell that just by looking at every other flavour we've been given this game.

[mutantdevle]

'Just to clarify, do both of your roles specifically state and use the word town to describe your alignments?'

My role specifically states it in the form of a standard win condition.

A little strange that you've answered a question that wasn't addressed to you. Your answer is interesting though. Is that standard win condition in the flavour of eliminating threats, scum, mafia, etc.?

[mutantdevle]

I'm actively biting my tongue right now. I feel that unless mutant got something like a friendly neighborizer, we should be trusting the guilty, but the Cop doesn't trust his own guilty, so how can I fucking trust the guilty?

I'm gonna go have a cookie, guys. It might calm me down, and is only slightly better for me than a smoke.

-Ghost

Well, I'll guess we'll find out tomorrow when drealmerz performs another investigation. Also, cookies are way better for you than smoking.

[mutantdevle]

It uses the word town, so answers the question.

What do you mean by 'It'. Do you mean your own role card?

[mutantdevle]

I don't think it's useful at all

I do.

@hopkirk, I’m not sure if you’ve seen what I’ve seen, but I have a hugely beneficial theory that requires everyone to state whether their role is flavoured or traditional (no additional information about thier specific role is required).

2 problems though. I cannot explain the theory until after people flavour/no flavour claim AND it has a crucial assumption that we don’t know for certain.

[mutantdevle]

@ghostly penguin, would you be willing to tell us if you have flavour or not?

And I have some theories regarding the night kills and death flavour that I will post later.


Also bins, why is it that my reaction to his flavour claim is what made you town read me? I would have thought that building a case and slightly tunnelling moz would be the obvious reason as to why I couldn’t be his scum partner.

[mutantdevle]

Looking through, I see Bins as confirmed Town (albeit, a little bit obvious now), but with everything at this rate, I can actually come up with a read list of my own, with reasons as to why for each.

So.... why haven't you given a reads list? You literally just said you are able to make one. So why haven't you?

[mutantdevle]

i think raya is 3p and needs to eat rope tbh because two NKs is bad

You're assuming the second kill is the result of a third party? If so, why?

Given ABR probably died to a SK, the SK was almost definitely on Moz's wagon. No incentive to shrink the lynch pool if they're in it.

You specifically say you believe their is a SK and they definately killed ABR instead of Joey. Do you have any reason or evidence to suggest this or is it purely gut / a random theory?



These are my theories on the deaths. 'The blade' is the flavour alignment of the mafia. As a result, I expect there to be 3 people aligned with the blade. I believe ABR was killed by the blade. His body was placed on the altar which is where the mayor's body was found. My guess is that there will be another kill tomorrow that leaves another body on the altar which I would consider to be proof of my theory.

As for Joey, I believe he was killed by a 3rd party. From my interpretation, the symbolism of the dandelions suggests some kind of ritual took place. Rituals would suggest evil. Evil that is not aligned with the main mafia group (aka the blade) must be 3rd party. In post 613 I state why I think Joey was a flavoured universal backup. Obviously, I have no way to prove this. But unless anyone convinces me otherwise, this is what I'm assuming.

I also find it interesting how ABR died (or rather, dissolved). His role colour and name would suggest he is town, but it could also be argued that the similarities between moz's death and his make him evil. Due to this, I have made the conclusion that the flavour of the death messages has nothing to do with the person dying, but rather how they were killed.

Basically, I think whoever killed ABR was who caused him to dissolve. Joey's death obviously didn't cause him to stick his head in the ground (unless he was hunting for a job amongst the dirt?) and Socrates obviously didn't shoot himself. This leads me to believe that Moz's death was not the cause of his own role. Rather, someone on his wagon caused him to die in such a way. Hence, I think there is DEFINITELY scum on moz's wagon.

Finally, I want to just quickly address ABR's italic role name. I think this means ABR is a separate alignment. I'm assuming there are 3 'Blade' members. But I also think that italic green (ABR) and normal green (Joey) role names are separate alignments (but still town style alignments) with the possibility of a 3rd (4th?) party role or 2.

Out of everything I have said, I am least confident on that final paragraph. But I guess all these theories could be dispelled if I am simply just reading too much into the flavour. But since this game doesn't tell us everything we need to know, I think we should be looking at the flavour for clues.

[mutantdevle]

So I made this table to record some of the information we have been given so far:


I am now going to post a list of questions I want certain people to answer. For the question "do you have a first name", feel free to answer yes without saying what it is (since I'd imagine the names could hint towards roles).


@Dunkerdoodles, do you have a first name?
@PMysterious, does your role have flavour?
@PMysterious, do you have a first name?
@Ibuki Meowda, do you have a first name?
@cytheflyguy, does your role have flavour?
@cytheflyguy, do you have a first name?
@Hopkirk, do you have a first name?


Once everyone has answered I will share a theory that could narrow down the lynch pool based on the responses.

[mutantdevle]

Quick reads list here (mostly based on claims and reactions to them):

Town:

Bins

^1

drealmerz7

^1

Dunkerdoodles

^1

Town Lean:

Ibuki Meowda

-0

Hopkirk

^1

Ghostly Penguin

^1

Null:

cytheflyguy

v1

Scum Lean:

PMysterious

-0

Raya36

v3

Scum:

None

[mutantdevle]

@Mutant: Assuming mafia killed Joey/SK killed ABR because Joey was townread by everyone while ABR was townread by pretty much just me. Doesn’t make much sense a SK would risk shooting one of the most obvious kill targets while mafia also decides to shoot ABR. Could be a vigilante but doesn’t seem as likely.
Could also be two separate mafia teams, but not much point speculating yet.

Yeah, I see where you are coming from now. I was looking into flavour so much that I was ignoring WHY such individuals were killed in my theories.

I was thinking that ‘someone on Moz’s wagon caused him to die that way’. However, this was probably the serial killer since a.) They aren’t aligned with Moz, and b.) They most likely killed Rampage.
On Joey’s death, I could see ‘the blade’ as some sort of sacrificial cult. Fits fine.

Based on your previous paragraph I now agree with this. The conclusion is the same though, someone on Moz's wagon caused him to die like that and hence is scum.

I already specified I don’t have a ‘role name’. I don’t have a first name and don’t see why it’s on your table. I would like to hear about the other two columns (flavour/do you have a role name) from everyone though. That includes you on whether you have a role name btw.

I forgot about asking people IF they have a role name :/ Probably because it isn't too relevant for the theory I have. I do have a role name. I'm not going to say why the 'first name' is an option on the table yet. But yeah, I'd appreciate if everyone stated whether or not they have a role name but I'm not prepared to chase people over it.

[mutantdevle]

mutantdevle

v1

Any reason as to why you'd not answer this question:

@Ibuki Meowda, do you have a first name?

?

Also, you are using my reads system wrong. You kinda have to have stated a read on me beforehand for you state whether that read has gone up or down.

[mutantdevle]

Raya notified me of being V/LA due to unsafe weather conditions. Everyone give her your best wishes.

As a gene, Raya may have 3 of my best wishes. She has to use all 3 of them on her own safety though.


Just waiting on

PMysterious

to answer whether he has flavour and if his role has a first name or even a name at all.

^^ making it big so that he has more of a chance of seeing it. His lurking is super annoying. He is basically just doing the bare minimum to not be replaced.

[mutantdevle]

Fucking phone autocorrect...

[mutantdevle]

@Ghostly Penguin, @Ibuki, @cythefly; does your role have a name (instead of a first name)? That's the only information i'd need to complete my table so I may as well.

[mutantdevle]

As for flavour: I have flavour, a first name, no title

@Raya, can you just clarify that this information is correct?

[mutantdevle]

@Mutant Can confirm that I do have flavour, I do have a first name, I do not have a title.

???

I feel like someone is lying here. Especially since the only other person to have claimed to have had a first name was moz who was lying and is also scum.

VOTE: Raya36

It's kinda odd that Dunkerdoodles and Bins are the only 2 to not have flavour but, since only 3 people don't have a role name, I'm willing to bet there's a 3rd person without flavour amongst the dead.

[mutantdevle]

Regarding your table I think the following should also be there:
Dunker has a role name.
Ibuku has no role name.

Therefore, I only want:
@Cytheguy to say whether they have a role name before I can put my thoughts out.
@Mutant: Can you specify what you mean by ‘yes but not given’.

Yes but not given means 'Yes they do but they have not given it'. Unspecified means they haven't said whether or not they do, don't or what it even is.

So taking that into account, the table does mention that dunker has a role name. Where did ibuku say they specifically didn't have a role name though? (Looking back to see if I can find it now).

[mutantdevle]

I didn't find anything. She said she has no first name, which I have recorded, but she never specified whether or not her role has a name.

[mutantdevle]

He has both. Everyone else is either flavour or role name.

No? I literally state on the table that I do have a role name but I haven't said what it is. I also have flavour. Based on my own role name both Bins and Dreal's role names make sense to me.

[mutantdevle]

Raya is just still not adding up to me. She isn't exactly the most townie player and, unless someone has lied about having a first name, lynching her would at least prove if the table means anything AI.

[mutantdevle]

the table is meaningless

holycrap duh

Idk though, I feel like it has just been used to catch out a liar. It's nothing I can prove though.

[mutantdevle]

I'm not liking this talk of lynching PM. I think waiting for a replacement would be far more practical.

Also, am I the only one that thinks that the current flow of the game is moving really slowly?

[mutantdevle]

half the player list is lurking dude lol you and mutant are acting like this is a new thing

Probably because the slow pace has only just started effecting me. I’m a naturally active player so I’ll still have things to say once everything slows down. But if the game has little progression then I start to feel myself running out of things to say.

I could do a Ghostly Penguin lynch if time becomes an issue.

When I next get time I’m going to reread a whole bunch and see if there are any meaningful pushes I want to make.

[mutantdevle]

Just a quick reads list before I make a couple of posts:

Town:

Bins

-0

drealmerz7

-0

Dunkerdoodles

-0

Town Lean:

Hopkirk

-0

Fern (

^2

)
cytheflyguy

^1

Null:

Ibuki Meowda

v1

Scum Lean:

Raya36

-0

Ghostly Penguin

v2

Scum:

None

[mutantdevle]

Fern's entrance feels town to me. I'm not a fan of the arrogance and high ego but I'm assuming it's a joke persona. Even if it isn't, they still feel quite town to me so I'm not prepared to policy lynch them just because I don't like their persona. That being said, the confidence with which Fern is playing can be very dangerous if he is scum (as I found out the hard way in my last game with drealmerz). But I currently don't see Fern as a threat and I think he'd be easily lynchable if he became one.

I thought I was onto something with Ibuki as I felt like her activity was taking a small spike every time she was being accused which looked inherently scummy to me. I wanted to see if this was AI for Ibuki by looking through her meta but it turns out they don't have any meta :/ So I cannot base any read on that. But regardless, they still feel scummier recently.

In general, I'm not comfortable with how town I'm reading a lot of people; I think that's mostly due to the claims we've had though. When I town read a fair few people it makes me start to distrust my reads and think scum of people by PoE.

[mutantdevle]

I was writing another post but halfway through thought "eh, this will be better said later".

Instead: @Ghostly Penguin: what do y'all think of doodles?

[mutantdevle]

Dang, I've gone a full 48 hours without posting. Time to change that.

[mutantdevle]

Latent but dissapating TR from the owl days.

Can you specify what you mean by 'owl days'?

I'd much rather lynch ibuki. Why are they a null to you?

I've been flip-flopping on them. Some of what they say seems townie in intent but other things seem scummier. As a result, since I cannot make up my mind, they are null.

[mutantdevle]

this is a bad post given that you don't look at any of fern's actions you just basically tone read him
like you articulate 0 reasons to support your feelings

I think tone reads are just as important as logistical reads even if not as valid. From my anecdotal experience, my tone reads are often more accurate than my standard ones. Besides, my read is not entirely based on tone (though I admit I never specified why I was town reading him). His actions, in general, seem town to me as he is definitely making an effort to scum hunt. How would you rate him?

and you're reading me from something that is very clearly not ai

You say this as though it can be proven either way. You have no meta, therefore it is impossible to claim whether any of your actions are AI or not. So please don't make a fool of yourself by putting forth the idea that something about you is not AI. Besides, where did I ever specify that your recent scummy actions were your spike in content after being accused? Your drop from town lean to null is more based on the quality and nature of your recent posts rather than your quantity.

so it's going to be really funny if we gave this guy a pass just cause he made a excel spreadsheet

Literally no one is town reading me based on a spreadsheet. I haven't even been given town cred over it and I wouldn't expect to. Mind explaining why you feel that I am being given a free pass over a spreadsheet.

Additionally, I'll have you know I used Google Sheets. Not Excel!

like i'm totally serious i've been ignoring giving a read here this whole game LOL

Why? Do you mind giving a read on me right now?

[mutantdevle]

Ghostly Penguin being the founder of the Ibuki wagon puts me off of joining it.

[mutantdevle]

VOTE: Ghostly Penguin

Can you answer my question please? <3

[mutantdevle]

VOTE: Ghostly Penguin

Can you answer my question please? <3

classic mutant post

I don't recall pressuring someone over not answering a question in the game we played. I assume you've read over some of my play since?

[mutantdevle]

VOTE: Ghostly Penguin

Can you answer my question please? <3

classic mutant post

I don't recall pressuring someone over not answering a question in the game we played. I assume you've read over some of my play since?

no. you said this to me before.

Oh wait yeah, not only did I actually pressure someone over it, that was you wasn't it? kek.

[mutantdevle]

@Everyone... we have like less than 2 days... can we do things plz?

[mutantdevle]

Like, we need votes. Y'all forget that we need time to discuss the inevitable role claims that are announced at any L-1.

[mutantdevle]

if GP is scum dunker is the other

What makes you think dunker is scum? I have been assuming dunker is town since he hinted that he KNEW that I would be able to confirm you as town after dreal claimed.

[mutantdevle]

I was going to make a case on Ghostly Penguin but I wanted to ask them some questions first. Looks like I don't need to make a case on them but I will do if I do not like their role claim but people unvote. I don't expect them to answer my question unless that happens but I do expect their next post to be a role claim.

[mutantdevle]

why does that make him town?

I don't think scum would unnecessarily reveal they have a night action nor do I think they would defend bins if someone allegedly had a guilty on her. It would make sense if Bins was scum but she is confirmed town (at least she is to me) and irrefutably so.

[mutantdevle]

why does that make him town?

I don't think scum would unnecessarily reveal they have a night action nor do I think they would defend bins if someone allegedly had a guilty on her. It would make sense if Bins was scum but she is confirmed town (at least she is to me) and irrefutably so.

none of this holds any sense to me

can't tell if you're bad or scum

What is it that you don’t understand? Obviously you’re not going to strongly town read her like I do since you don’t know the specifics of what has gone on between us as well as the fact that you have a guilty on her.

[mutantdevle]

Can you quote the specific thing you're talking about here mutant- that makes Dunker town?

Sure:

bins is town

i have results

What sort of results?

why does it matter?

mutant

should

be able to confirm bins so

It's probably unhealthy to do so, but this is entirely the reason that I am town reading him. However, I do remember saying to myself earlier that some of his actions are questionable. I 100% town read him though considering I'm fairly certain I know what role he is (which really isn't that hard to figure about meh, it doesn't need to be said).

[mutantdevle]

a player revealing they have a night action or not isn't alignment indicative, especially in this instance

By 'this instance' are you referring to the discussion around your guilty claim or the likelihood that this game has no vanilla's and hence everyone is likely to have a night action? Either way, my thought process is that he didn't need to say anything at all. At that point, I think everyone was either waiting for my input on Bins being town or just didn't believe the claim in the first place. The discussion would have affected him in no way whatsoever if he decided to stay silent about his results that bins was town. So I consider that him speaking up where he really didn't need to as a townie action.

of course a scum player will/can defend someone they know to be town, even if someone else they know to be town comes up with a guilty on them

Just because they CAN doesn't mean it would be logical to do so. I see no reason why scum would so heavily defend a mislynch.

your posits are nonsensical

The simple conclusion of the previous posts would be that we disagree. It's rather closed minded to think that points of view you disagree with are nonsensical.


Btw, do you scum read dunker?

[mutantdevle]

ghostly has not done anything to help us find scum if they are town. no reads, no claims, no nothing. they are still not posting.

And you have? Since replacing in you haven't exactly seemed so eager to catch up on everything or even scum hunt. Have you even read through any of the game at all? Because if you had then I'd assume you'd have some stuff to say by now.

Honestly, your recent posts seem like you're thinking along the lines of "GP is about to be lynched so I should say I scum read him a bit so that I get town cred".

[mutantdevle]

I'd rather look into UCV tomorrow tbh.

[mutantdevle]

We targeted Joey_ last night in the hopes that our cookies did more than be cookies, but obviously that's not exactly useful in demonstrating our towniness.

So... it's entirely possible that you killed Joey, Albeit accidentally? Perhaps your cookies cause madness and hence that's why Joey died the way he did. Based on the flavour of the kill, I don't think that's likely, but is the possibility that you killed Joey something that has crossed your mind over?

UNVOTE:

My vote will return if no one else is wagoned in time (which seems most likely) but for now, I don't want a hammer.

[mutantdevle]

We will be taking that possibility into account in weighing our night action if we don't get lynched here today.

Eg. Target a scummy person. Kek.

[mutantdevle]

lol u sure that scum isn't faking that?

Could be, but until I have reason to believe otherwise, I view Dunker's claim as legit.

[mutantdevle]

lol u sure that scum isn't faking that?

Could be, but until I have reason to believe otherwise, I view Dunker's claim as legit.

unless its role related I'm not seeing it, look at the context in which it happened.

I don't see how the context really affects anything.

@dunker, am I allowed to say what I think your role is or would you prefer it if as little attention as possible was drawn to it?

[mutantdevle]

Well obviously he claimed after drealmerz did... that was the whole point of it. He wasn't saying what he said with the intention of role claiming. He was chipping in to help support that bins was town despite drealmerz guilty claim on her.

[mutantdevle]

VOTE: Ibuki

Who do you live with and why should we believe you’re masons instead of scum partners? (I’m assuming Ibuki lives with someone and hence probably has a PT with them since they asked drealmerz if he lived with anyone after he claimed).

[mutantdevle]

Uc voyager strikes me as mafia

And you're calling out the top dog for pushing "low hanging fruit"
Fuckin murder this.

town raya would still be lhf, you sound stupid

You realise you are at L-1 right? Perhaps it would be best to stop trying to push people and start defending yourself. Eg. with a claim.

[mutantdevle]

If you want some fresh takes, the following is all true:


1) We believe that Bins and Dreal are both town. There's little way that I see scum Dreal and scum Bins trust another player with what happened Day 2, and both reactions are pretty god damn organic.
2) Raya is good lynch--PA will talk about this more (I wanna kind of twitch about ibuki for a moment, and god fucking dammit, I'm gonna)
3) ibuki borrowing dreal's shtick of 'you have no reason to scum read me' and refusal to claim is really fucking scummy if you think about it and their play for 2.5 seconds.
4) if UCV is Town this game, he's probably the easiest lynch this game. I'd rather raya and/or ibuki--I played a game where we lynched him Day 1 recently and I'll post that on request. I've not seen anything from him seeming that he's a stronger player as of late. (I don't think he is Town, and PA scumread cy prett hard)
5) Hopkirk and for me to a lesser extent, DD, are Town reads. PA had a PMysterious town read, and we're BOTH TRing Fern.
6) playing PoE for a moment, that really leaves us with UCV, Raya, ibuki in most configurations where we aren't a lethal baker.
7) I believe there is no gamestate where ABR gets shot by a Town agent and that Town agent DOES NOT claim. I actually don't care too deeply if it's 10:2:1, 9:2:2 or 9:3:1; we lynch scum, which means we lynch from 6.
8) I believe there is no state where a Town player kills Joey, claim or no--that's where the whole 'I think we have two anti-towns shooting' comes from.

That's where I am on this game state. PA is probably similar with a few tweaks, but nothing that would involve hydra dissonance.

-Ghost

Any particular reason as to why I am excluded from this list? I am assuming you still view me on the same level as Hopkirk.

[mutantdevle]

VOTE: Raya

You were already voting Raya.


Also, you've mentioned a few times that you scum read me. Care to elaborate?

[mutantdevle]

I'll only be online for at the very most most two more hours, then I'll be offline until deadline- and obviously unable to change my vote or anything.

Would you consider hammering Ibuki before you leave?

[mutantdevle]

I'll only be online for at the very most most two more hours, then I'll be offline until deadline- and obviously unable to change my vote or anything.

Would you consider hammering Ibuki before you leave?

Aren't you willing to vote Raya? She was one of your two top scumreads 4 days ago, and you haven't mentioned any reason for that to change since then and I don't remember you posting really important about Ibuku that made him lower in your reads.

You and Ghostly both seem willing to lynch Raya, which would make 5 votes for her. I think Fern scumread her, but I don't remember. It's an acheivable lynch, so I wouldn't switch from a lower preference.

At this point in time, I would prefer Ibuki. However, I'd lynch Raya if there was more support in the form of current votes. I would vote Raya as well but I don't think we have time to effectively sort her claim.

[mutantdevle]

The whole not claiming thing. I don't see a reason why Ibuki would refuse to role claim other than that their role is incredibly scummy and hence we'd lynch them anyway. Not claiming in a game like this, to me, just seems like scum trying to buy themselves some time whilst they think about what to say.

[mutantdevle]

UNVOTE:

I’m satisfied with Ibuki’s claim for now.

Raya’s turn to claim I guess. Intent to hammer if I don’t like her claim or time is too low when I wake up.

[mutantdevle]

With 19 minutes left it appears that I woke up just in time.

VOTE: Raya36

[mutantdevle]

HAHAHAHA BINS GAVE ME HER INVENTION THEN DIED
WHAT A LOSER.

This strikes me as scummy. It's as though you are implying she gave you her invention in vein.

[mutantdevle]

This seems like massclaim sort of time?

Why? We are not at MYLO and this is a closed game where presumably everybody has some form of a role. I really don't see how massclaiming is going to help us when that just means that tonight the scum get to pick which PR they want to off. We mass claim tomorrow if it's still MYLO by then.

[mutantdevle]

So our cookies aren't deadly. The recipient should claim receipt now, please.

Otherwise, total reset time for us.

--PA

What do you mean by "total reset time"?

Also, I don't see why you can't just tell us who you gave the cookie to. For all we know, you may have been redirected or your target could have been jailed.

[mutantdevle]

I think it's clear by the night kill flavour that there are 2 distinct factions (or individuals?) performing the 2 separate kills. We have the flower power and the alter egos. My main question right now would be which is the blade? Neither of the 2 killing patterns make any sense. ABR --> Bins, Joey --> Ibuki. I'm not so sure I see much of a pattern. ABR was mostly irrelevant and bins was the strongest known PR (when you consider any group scum would assume drealmerz was insane). Joey was incredibly townie and Ibuki was far scummier and refused to role claim. Something about all this just isn't adding up.

Ibuki's flip is also interesting. They are "Smorlock's cousin" and they said that their role directly affects someone. That makes me believe that someone is Smorlock. Which means someone has lied about having a name. (Unless Smorlock has some kind of meaning?)

[mutantdevle]

Oh, it just occurred to me that this may actually be MYLO. If all 3 deaths are town and there are 2 scum on a specific team then we lose. So maybe mass claim would be a good idea? I'm still unsure of it though. Lets just see how the day goes first. Some people might claim naturally or just generally have things to reveal. But basically, if we aren't certain of our lynch candidate then that's when / if we should start forcing claims.

[mutantdevle]

@Mutant: If you still think the weird death flavour for Moz was due to someone on the wagon, then it’s CY(now UC). Not sure myself, but I have UC as scum by POE anyway.

I was thinking a long the same lines. My scummier reads are either dead or now trusted so I'm looking towards POE reads for scum.

[mutantdevle]

Like, I don't get how yesterday went how it did if mafia were actually active.

Could you elaborate on why you think this? I think I understand but I want your explicit theory / opinion on it.

[mutantdevle]

I'm inclined to think that we wouldn't have had to go through 3 role claims and would have reached a lynch sooner if scum were more involved.

[mutantdevle]

Additionally, it may just be a lack of care from them in general since they knew the top 3 wagons were all town. I'm willing to declare Ghostly Penguin as town at this point.

[mutantdevle]

Here are my reads atm:

Town:

drealmerz7

-0

(Claimed)
Ghostly Penguin

^3

(Claimed)

Town Lean:

None

Null:

Hopkirk

v1

(POE)
Dunkerdoodles

v2

(POE)

Scum Lean:

Fern

v2

(POE)
UC Voyager

v2

(POE)

Scum:

None



From my perspective, 75% of my null reads and below are scum since I think the game was probably 9v3v1 or 9v2v2. At the very least, the game was 10v3 which is still a 50% chance. So overall, I'm confident in lynching scum today. My approach for today won't be to try and find scum within those 4 but rather to find the townie since the most likely case is only 1 of them are.

[mutantdevle]

hi so um
my scumread is dead

The same can be said for a fair few of us. That's why a lot of our reads are PoE at this point.

[mutantdevle]

I litterally got a pm saying that a 1-shot X has recieved at my doorstep.
I really do not feel like saying what X is.

I wasn't suggesting that the tool itself wasn't useful. I was suggesting that perhaps it isn't useful in your hands since I think you might be scum.

[mutantdevle]

Total reset time is when someone resets their reads completely.
And there are many reasons why, maybe its because they want to confirm that their action suceeded.
Hello?

Thank you for explaining what total reset time was; I hadn't heard of that term before now. And surely saying "I sent my cookie to X" and X replying "I never got a cookie" is a better way to cut the crap in finding out if their action succeeded?

[mutantdevle]

I think it's clear by the night kill flavour that there are 2 distinct factions (or individuals?) performing the 2 separate kills. We have the flower power and the alter egos. My main question right now would be which is the blade? Neither of the 2 killing patterns make any sense. ABR --> Bins, Joey --> Ibuki. I'm not so sure I see much of a pattern. ABR was mostly irrelevant and bins was the strongest known PR (when you consider any group scum would assume drealmerz was insane). Joey was incredibly townie and Ibuki was far scummier and refused to role claim. Something about all this just isn't adding up.

Ibuki's flip is also interesting. They are "Smorlock's cousin" and they said that their role directly affects someone. That makes me believe that someone is Smorlock. Which means someone has lied about having a name. (Unless Smorlock has some kind of meaning?)

Hey loser.
You are saying a lot of words
Mostly with very little meaning or little significance
They add nothing to the game.

Clearly you don't care much for flavour and setup speculation, or perhaps you fear it? The intent of this post was to spark discussion into the killing patterns, the fact that they make no sense, and who'd have reason to perform such kills. Furthermore, whoever Smorlock is, they have lied to us. That means they are probably scum.

[mutantdevle]

this doesn't make sense to me

I don't see why a cookie vendor would be scum sided. Let's think about this, everyone has a role of some description. However, some of our roles are essentially useless. Raya was basically a VT, your results clearly aren't useful and Ghostly Penguin isn't useful either. Hopkirk has suggested that perhaps he doesn't have much value anymore and who even knows what ABR and Ibuki could do at night. To me, you, Raya and Ghostly Penguin just seem like flavoured vanilla townies to me.

[mutantdevle]

odds are that if we lynch ghostly > UCV > fern, we win

I disagree. If you could explain any maths/logic behind this then perhaps I could understand it better? I'd much rather lynch UCV >= fern > ghostly. But even then I'm not so sure we should be so quick to dismiss dunker and hopkirk.

I'm not so sure we are going to get any more than 2 lynches though tbh.

[mutantdevle]

I might give a partial or even full claim after we've had the cookie result and Dreal's inspect. I think my role is effectively useless now, and it's a role that's much more likely town than scum.

If you think that claiming will DEFINITELY eliminate you from the scum pool then a claim may be appreciated. But honestly, don't claim if it doesn't add anything.

[mutantdevle]

As for drealmerz's claim, I think we should respect his choice not to reveal it if he chooses not to. As a townie, all his result will do is satisfy our curiosity over what type of cop he is. Whereas in the perspective of scum, a lack of result will at least place a little doubt in their minds over whether or not drealmerz is genuinely useless. If the results he gets are consistently 'guilty', but then a result yields 'innocent', then I think it's fair to assume that the 'innocent' person is scum. Unless that happens, I don't think dreal needs to tell us anything.

[mutantdevle]

Who have you chosen to protect previously?

[mutantdevle]

Why not though?

I'm confused as to why you wouldn't protect Bins N2 as well. Based on role claims, Bins was clearly the MVP and therefore the most likely to be killed...

If you really are a town aligned BG then that makes me feel like a mass claim would be useful (since you are able to protect whoever is most important) but something about my own role makes me doubt your claim.

[mutantdevle]

Actually, I suppose a BG makes sense. But still, I don't get why you wouldn't have protected Bins N2.

[mutantdevle]

To answer that I'd have to role claim which I would only do upon a mass claim.

I'm now in support of a mass claim. It could help confirm you as town (especially to me) as well as confirm others as town. If your claim is true then I have a good plan that could not only let us see tomorrow but allow us to be in a strong position as well. Additionally, a mass claim would also apply pressure to scum as I assume their roles are inherently scummy.

A good question to start the mass claiming from me is: did anyone role block me last night?

[mutantdevle]

Ik, but there is still a chance that I was role blocked last night but I'm not sure if that's just my role being shit.

If someone did role block me, then they should claim that. Because if they did then it means they are town (on the basis that 2 scum role blockers is improbable).

[mutantdevle]

@dunkerdoodles since you said yesterday that you had 'results' I am assuming your night action gave you results again today. Mind going first with the mass claiming by telling us what your role and results are?

[mutantdevle]

For the record, I think dunkerdoodles is a tracker and his result is that he tracked Bins day 1 and saw that she visited me.

[mutantdevle]

I believe dunker's claim but the part where no one visited strikes me as odd. I also targetted Bins with my night action. This makes me inclined to believe I was definitely role blocked. However, I have something to suggest that my ability failing is just part of my role rather than that I was role blocked. This confuses me though as my flavour would suggest that my visit would be successful even if my ability was not. If I wasn't role blocked then either dunker is lying, the scum has some kind of ability that can hide all visits or that's just the way my ability fail works. I'm inclined to believe the 3rd. I'll explain more when I role claim but for now I want to see if either of the other 2 claims to have role blocked me.

Since I believe both dunker's and hopkirk's claims, that means UCV and Fern must be scum by PoE. So unless either of them really did role block me then I think this is game solved and they should both be the next 2 lynches.

[mutantdevle]

9v3v1 would be the logical conclusion but I'm more inclined to believe 10v2v1 or even the possibility that group scum has 2 kills per night. This is based on how I don't think any of you, dunker or ghostly penguin have lied about their role. Though if there has been a lie then I'd assume it would be ghostly penguin based on targetting a player who died night 1 and no sign of a cookie today. But whether or not it's 9v3v1, 10v2v1 or 9v2v2, PoE would suggest both UCV and Fern are scum of any description.

[mutantdevle]

I'll talk about dreal in my role claim.

[mutantdevle]

Your PoE is fucking Garbage btw.

I get the sense that you don't like PoE in general because PoE makes perfect sense, especially in the current situation. If the number of people you don't explicitly town read is less than or equal to the amount of scum left in the game then that means the people you don't town read MUST be scum regardless of how scummy they have been (assuming you are correct in your reads). I either town read everyone or believe their role claims aside from you and UCV. By my own reads, unless Hopkirk, dunkerdoodles or Ghostly have lied about their role, that means you 2 MUST be scum.

[mutantdevle]

What I am saying is (other then the fact that you're just a loser)
is that you aren't adding anyhting to the game.
And your posts this phase are agenda based garbage because you're scum who basicly thinks they have the game won.

Ahh yes, because aside from this very recent 'push' against me you have totally added a lot to this game haven't you? Setup and flavour spec is very important IMO, especially in a game like this where it's preestablished we don't get to know everything about our roles and it's proven that flavour and help each of us deduce what our roles do. Since no one seems to be willing to join me in setup spec and spotting patterns in kills I am having to base all my reads on how believable I find people's claims and hence scum by PoE.

[mutantdevle]

Role
Does not
EVER
EVER
EVER
Equal Alignment.
Their play does.

You clearly have never seen an inherently townie player win as scum. Like surely you have seen some very scummy players mislynched? I get that it sucks that your townie pretence has been caught through PoE but that's just part of the game.

[mutantdevle]

Like can we lynch Mutantloser today please?
His posts this phase have only came from scum who basicly thinks they've won the game.
There is no attempt to naturally re-evaluate or take into consideration the evnets of the game.
His reads don't really look naturally formed.
He doesn't need to try, he just needs to push his agenda.
And he is very obviously doing that, like he isn't hiding the fact he isn't pushing an agenda.
He's just a wolf.

- No
- I don't get how you can really say this? I've heavily adjusted my reads based on events and you even point this out in how I'm looking for PoE to scum hunt. My original scum reads are mostly either dead or have role claimed in a way that I find believable. If now trusting a previous scum read isn't taking into consideration the events of the game then I don't know what is. My read on dunker was also originally town, then I re-evaluated my read on him based on what others have said, and now I am back to trusting him based on his claim.
- In what way? Care to actually point out my posts that look unnatural and then I could perhaps explain if there is some missing context? You clearly haven't been reading my posts too closely if you don't think my thoughts are natural because I am a very transparent player who details their thinking probably a little too much.
- I do need to try and of course I am pushing an agenda. Any townie would be pushing their agenda to get scum lynched. Aren't you?
- Care to elaborate on this?
- As far as I was aware, this game doesn't have wolves. Unless your alter ego blade gang are wolves?

[mutantdevle]

Mutantloser I see you on.
Get out of your scum PT and fight me
Though you'll lose, because we all know that I'm better then you.

I constantly read through new posts on my phone throughout the day when I only have time to read and not post. When I get to my PC, that's when I post. So not posting whilst online is not AI, especially for me.

Also, what makes you so sure scum have day chat?

[mutantdevle]

it doesn't seem like you're hunting genuinely mostly because it seems like your scumreads are the most easiest things to fake on the face of the planet.
Like

I don't have any real scum reads though (well, I do now). You were quick to point this out in criticising my PoE hunting yet now you twist it to be that I have easy scum reads?

[mutantdevle]

Okay, I am trying to decipher the flavor in my role pm.

You didn't try and decipher it before now?

I'd like this question answered too. There is NO WAY you haven't been trying to figure out what your flavour has meant before now. To me, this sounds more like you have just invented this flavour because your real flavour is scummy as shit.

[mutantdevle]

I am an innocent child

Get yourself confirmed then. I'll believe your IC claim when I see the mod publically announce it. Until then, you are scum to me. Have you tried sending the mod a message to confirm you? Because if so then you should do that. If not, then the only other 'trigger' to confirm you as the IC I can see possible is you being voted and put to L-1.

[mutantdevle]

There's also the fact that UC loser can be a vig for all we know.

Does kill flavour mean nothing to you? Can you seriously look at those death messages and think that someone town aligned is performing those kills?

[mutantdevle]

Mutant is new town who really really thinks he's right and is proud of how smart being right must make him.

Where do I say this? I don't mean to come across like that.

I never assume that I am right. I am always prepared to admit that I am wrong and will always consider that as a possibility. But I rely on logic to tell me what the most probable situation is and that will always be the situation that I believe the most. I believe yours, dunker's and penguin's role claims and if you are all the roles you claim to be then you are most likely to be town. I know that both myself and drealmerz are town so by PoE I conclude that fern and UCV must be scum. But then of course there's the problem that there is a high chance that there is 3 scum left rather than 2. As such, I take into consideration that one of the role claims is a lie. I have settled on penguin's being the least likely of the 3 and that's who I'd want lynched if the game continues after UCV and Fern are lynched. It really just doesn't make any sense to me that 2 of the claims are lies.

[mutantdevle]

I could see Mutant/Dreal being the scumteam here actually.

You're probably not going to like a part of my role claim then :3

[mutantdevle]

For the record, I am now properly scum reading Fern. He is purposely twisting things and his spike in activity since being heavily suspected just strikes me as scummy. Back that up with the PoE and I'm set for lynching Fern before UCV. If he is an IC then he should get that confirmed or it will activate upon L-1 as I really don't see another way it could secretly activate. As for it activating when he grows up and learns there are no monsters, I just don't buy that since there very clearly ARE monsters in this village.

I'm waiting for UCV to role claim before I do, just because I want to know whether I was role blocked or if my flavour means what I think it means. I'm also assuming UCV was given the cookie. If she doesn't claim that, then either someone is purposely withholding such a trivial piece of information or Ghostly Penguin isn't actually a cookie vendor.

Speaking of Ghostly Penguin, they are due a prod. It's annoying how they haven't been around to give much input almost all game.

And Hopkirk the part where you use your body to protect people (backed up by what I know about my own role) makes me think you are definitely a BG. It makes even more sense to me that your ability would be alternate nights as well.

[mutantdevle]

Earlier, I wanted Fern lynched based mostly on PoE. But now, even without PoE, I'd want Fern lynched.

[mutantdevle]

Hmm yeah, that is a good theory. Maybe it is worth keeping Fern around to see if that's the case. So unless UCV has a role blocker ability and targetted me then perhaps we should lynch her just to test that theory.

And Hopkirk about our earlier theory that it's who is on the wagon that causes the death flavour: UCV is the only one that it could be if that theory was true but that could only be true if UCV was either 3rd party causing it or moz and UCV were the only 2 group scum.

[mutantdevle]

UCV:

What is your flavour?
Who did you track night 1?
Who did you track night 2?
What were your results for each?
Why did you choose those 2 people?

[mutantdevle]

Ngl, the whole "I was roleblocked" thing was a trap. I wanted to make it sound like roleblocking me would give confirmed town status and then insta lynch whoever claimed it. It's true that my main ability did not work however Bins' invention that she gave me did work, meaning I wasn't roleblocked.

The invention she gave me was a tool that allowed me to investigate someone's alignment. I used it to investigate drealmerz just to make sure he wasn't lying about having a guilt on Bins. I expect that drealmerz result today is that he has another guilty on someone which confirms that his role probably doesn't mean much at this point.

Drealmerz is town.

Full claim to follow.

[mutantdevle]

I'm a young doctor (assuming that's the name of my role). I was training to become a doctor when I had to move to this village. I couldn't continue my training here because the village doesn't really have the facilities for it and it's too far away from anywhere that does. As a result, I've been teaching myself since moving here. Each night I can save someone if they are targetted by a night kill.

At first, I felt like I was probably the main protective role, which is what made me doubt Hopkirk's BG claim. I didn't actually believe Moz's doctor claim (though I genuinely didn't know who Hippocrates was before this game). But obviously, I'm not going to counterclaim him when he was already lynched. I also felt like I played a strong part in getting moz lynched and I didn't want to get night killed.

On night 1 I protected drealmerz. I considered protecting Joey but my conversations with him in which he slightly defended Moz made me second guess myself. Instead, I protected drealmerz who Moz was very hostile towards as I was assuming Moz's scum team would be blaming drealmerz for moz's death and hence want him dead.

Now here's the interesting part; on night 2, I protected Bins. Obviously, my protection failed. I didn't get a message saying this but obviously Bins is dead so it can't have worked. Based on my flavour, I think that my protections are just not always successful (I'm assuming they have a 50% chance of success). Hopkirk being a BG was suspicious at first since a doctor and a BG in the same game is a little powerful in my opinion. But I reached the conclusion that since my protection either doesn't work at all or has a 50% fail rate, a BG as well would make sense. Additionally, Hopkirk has recently said he can probably only protect every other night which makes me believe his claim.



Here's my proposition of where we go from here in regards to claims: We lynch UCV.

If she flips scum, then Hopkirk gains confirmed town status. That will be drealmerz + Hopkirk as confirmed townies for the next day. I will also protect Hopkirk and he can choose who to protect from there. That means Hopkirk can protect someone with the knowledge that I can save him if either he or his target is shot. This essentially allows us to protect 2 people (assuming my protection works).

If she flips town, then that confirms Hopkirk as scum. I'd also argue it would put FoS on dunkerdoodles since a watcher + a tracker seems unlikely though still possible. That's something we can discuss if it comes to it though. Obviously, a town flip is worse since the game may actually be over by tomorrow if both night kills land on town. But we still have my protection + the small chance the scum may cross kill. Furthermore, Fern has one of Bins' inventions. If he is either 3rd party or town then he'd be wanting to prevent a night kill with that also (which would help regardless of what UCV flips).

[mutantdevle]

A. still have a tracker and B. got scum.

A. We'd still have a watcher.
B. Only if you're telling the truth. For all we know, you are the scum.

Personally, I'd rather risk lynching and investigative role than I would a protective one since we need all the kill preventing roles we can get if we are going to survive the night. I'd argue that we are more fucked if we lynch Hopkirk to find he is telling the truth than we are if we lynch you are find your telling the truth.

[mutantdevle]

What I am saying is (other then the fact that you're just a loser)
is that you aren't adding anyhting to the game.
And your posts this phase are agenda based garbage because you're scum who basicly thinks they have the game won.

Ahh yes, because aside from this very recent 'push' against me you have totally added a lot to this game haven't you? Setup and flavour spec is very important IMO, especially in a game like this where it's preestablished we don't get to know everything about our roles and it's proven that flavour and help each of us deduce what our roles do. Since no one seems to be willing to join me in setup spec and spotting patterns in kills I am having to base all my reads on how believable I find people's claims and hence scum by PoE.

Its worthless content.

Let's just agree to disagree here. Whether or not setup and flavour spec has any meaning is a matter of opinion. But personally, I think it does.

[mutantdevle]

Besides the fact that this guy just slipped that I am town in bold

Context: Your townie pretence.

role will never equal alignment play is.
This is a site focused on dayplay not nightplay, if the setup was broken by massclaim, a massclaim would have happened Day 1.

I never said that role = alignment. But your role is a factor of your alignment. Townie roles are more likely to be town. Scummy roles are more likely to be scum. Whether or not I believe someone's role claim is based on how I think their role fits into the big picture and how they act. I then use their role as evidence for their alignment. I am also clearly not basing reads solely off of role claims since I still scum read you despite the IC claim and I really don't think anyone believes UCV's claim at this point.

[mutantdevle]

my flavor goes

your skill is to see. people are not as skittish as the deer, mobile as bird, or elusive as rabbit. What you see. the movements of others. you may select one and learn where they go that night.

This sounds like you are trying to quote exactly what your flavour says which A. would get you mod killed, B. is completely unbelievable since everyone's flavour is so much more detailed than that (at least, I assume it is for everyone else too as obviously all claims have been explaining the general idea of our flavour rather than what it is explicitly) and C. crappy grammar which I would not expect from Socrates.

[mutantdevle]

what events? Like role isn't alignment indicative, play is.
Um yeah, all of them.
Um you're pushing a scum agenda of trying to push the worst case possible so you can win the game.
- Wolves are the same thing as mafia/scum. And you're using this as an actual point to refute my own?
You're just scum.

Role is most certainly allignment indicative. You don't get many scum cops so I'd argue cop is town indicative. It doesn't dictate alignment though but I can certainly use role claims as evidence for one alignment or the other.
No, I'm not using wolves to refute your points in general but I was making a joke against your joke (I know that you genuinely think I'm scum but the part where I'm specifically a wolf was obviously a joke, as was my retort).

[mutantdevle]

Lol I am sure there are many ways of this game being prevented from being broken from flavor.

Obviously the game isn't going to be broken through flavour, but the point is we don't know explicitly know the full extent of our roles. As such, we can assume our flavour is to give us clues about what are roles actually do.

[mutantdevle]

He hadn't claimed up to that point and that's what that post was based off on?

So you were entertaining the idea that UCV was a vig that just hadn't decided to kill yet? Fair enough I guess.

[mutantdevle]

One SK in Mutant Hopkirk.

So I'm the SK now?

But here you clearly say I am group scum?

The scumteam is probably {Dunker, Mutant}

Mutantloser I see you on.
Get out of your scum PT and fight me

Also not sure if the many times you have referred to me as scum with 'they' is because you are referencing me as part of a group or just that you generally like that pronoun. Either way, if you're going to try and falsely accuse me of scum then you might want to decide beforehand which type of scum you're going to push me as.

[mutantdevle]

I expect that drealmerz result today is that he has another guilty on someone which confirms that his role probably doesn't mean much at this point. Drealmerz is town.

From someone who was in a Dethy:

If Dreal got a innocent last night, he is Insane: we lynch the innocent.

If he got a guilty, he is either Insane or Paranoid. We don't act on the result until/if Dreal gets an Innocent, in which all guilty results= Town.

The other options are mafia has a framer or redirection.

-Ghost

There's also the worrying possibility he is a random cop :/ I'm doubtful of that though.

[mutantdevle]

my flavor goes

your skill is to see. people are not as skittish as the deer, mobile as bird, or elusive as rabbit. What you see. the movements of others. you may select one and learn where they go that night.

This sounds like you are trying to quote exactly what your flavour says which A. would get you mod killed, B. is completely unbelievable since everyone's flavour is so much more detailed than that (at least, I assume it is for everyone else too as obviously all claims have been explaining the general idea of our flavour rather than what it is explicitly) and C. crappy grammar which I would not expect from Socrates.

The grammer being bad is because it looks like he's 'cut bits out' but it looks like he's (trying to) directly quote.

The problem with that though is that it doesn't look like bits have been cut out. Like why would you cut out those specific bits? This doesn't really need discussion though tbh since UCV is confirmed scum by now.

[mutantdevle]

You don't get many scum cops so I'd argue cop is town indicative.

its been done before

Never said it was impossible. I'm just saying that statistically some roles are more frequently town than others.

[mutantdevle]

I don't think that Hopkirk is necessarily trying to get UCV mod killed but more trying to use the lack of one as evidence she is scum. But yeah, in general it is scummy to try and get someone mod killed (as in real world scummy, not opposing town scummy).

Besides, if there was a modkill at this stage then that would be very bad for us since it decreases the chance we survive the night.

[mutantdevle]

@UCV, did you get the cookie or not?

[mutantdevle]

Eh, fuck the cookie.

VOTE: UC Voyager

[mutantdevle]

Actually
I think the SK is either you or dreal who is just investigation immune.

meh its a shitty thing to do but if you're town I'm not going to lynch you
VOTE: dreal
probs the sk tbh

Investigation immune as in the tool that bins gave me which told me dreal is aligned with the town didn't work?

Dreal is confirmed town to me based on that tbh.

[mutantdevle]

I'm not so sure I could see a godfather SK. But eh, I guess anything is possible this game.

[mutantdevle]

Did you think you were a serial killer Mutant?

Day 1:

"Oh cool, I'm a vig, this will be fun. Time to execute some lurkers and take out scum."

Day 1, just before Moz's role is revealed:

*re-reads role card a few times*. "Oh shit, my role card doesn't mention my alignment at all! Is it possible I am not aligned with town?"

Night 1:

"Joey was softly defending moz but not too strongly. Almost as if he wanted to defend moz but didn't want to lose town cred for doing so. Seems scummy to me."

Day 2:

"Wow, was I really the only person that thought Joey's defence of moz was kinda scummy? Also, what is up with that death flavour, it's so violent... Maybe I'm a third party? My role flavour doesn't feel like it's SK so maybe the 'weeds' are specific people? Maybe, the weeds have italic names like ABR. Since he dissolved, then perhaps that is the hint that I'm trying to kill people like that since I guess trust can be considered a right and my role card mentions rights dissolving. Eh, I still consider myself town though."

Night 2:

"I should investigate drealmerz, just to be sure he isn't scum lying about a guilty on Bins. Also, I want to test if my and Hopkirk's theory about scum being on the wagon causing moz's death flavour being true. This means I should kill Ibuki or UCV. I'm leaning Ibuki since she was so vague about her role... actually, my reads are crap. Killing joey was a mistake and in previous games, my reads have been VERY off. I know, I will let the town decide by Iso-ing everyone to see which of the 2 they scum read the most. Oh okay, Ibuki it is then".

Day 3:

*Looks at Ibuki's death flavour* "Oh god I'm actually a SK, oh god I'm a SK... but SK does not match my flavour at all; SHUT UP YOU'RE THE SERIAL KILLER!! Hopkirk wants mass claim, uh oh. Maybe you should just confess you are a gardener with no specified alignment? Pfft, you'd be lynched instantly! Okay, pretend you're a doctor, there doesn't seem to be any protective roles and they wouldn't want to lynch a doctor." *Hopkrik claims BG* "Shit. Okay, new plan:" *Constructs 50% successful doctor flavour. Is convincing? Check. Makes sense to exist alongside a BG? Check. Plan who you investigated and more importantly WHY? Check.* "Okay, now crumb it a bit to give it more ground." *Dunkerdoodles claims to have watched Bins and no one visited* "FUUUUUUUUUUUUCK, maybe I should pretend I protected someone else... but it makes the most sense to have protected Bins N2, besides, you can't change your mind now... you are luring scum by claiming you could have been role blocked and stated several times that your ability may have failed... I could pretend I protected Ibuki? But that makes literally no sense as a doctor... Nope, you're going to have to stick with what you have now. Maybe I could state that perhaps scum has an ability that prevents anyone that targets their target from seeing any visits? No, that sounds stupid. Then what do I do? Blame the mod. Good idea, I'll just pretend that that's how my role works." *Insert paranoia from here on out that people are going to figure out I'm the SK from this hole in my claim*.

Night 3:

"Okay, Fern is definitely scum and might kill me due to my doctor claim. But, since he now hates Hopkirk for the UCV mod kill then I'm hoping that means he will kill Hopkirk instead. Besides, I need Fern alive to be lynched tomorrow. Maybe I should kill dunker to guarantee he doesn't see my kills? Nah, if he is watching me and I die then I'd want him to be alive to out my killed and he'll probably watch Hopkirk anyway and confirm Fern as the scum. I should kill one of the 2 townies instead. I'll kill the cookie vendor because dreal being conf town (I hope) will help with lynching Fern tomorrow. 2 townie deaths tonight + scum lynched tomorrow = guaranteed win as either town or SK."

Game over:

"Well that's a disappointing end, I wanted to see if I could pull off my plan. Wait... I'm not even the SK... goddammit." *facepalm*.


@Fern and Dunker, out of curiosity, who would you have killed and watched N3?

[mutantdevle]

I also got quite into character for submitting my night actions. I thought it was only fair that I meet Socrates efforts in his detailed flavour. I like telling my hidden thoughts to the game mod and I'm sure it put a grin on Socrate's face as I was having an identity crisis and fell into his trap of making me think I am a SK:

N1:

Flames are threatening this humble village and it would appear there is evil intent within the arsonist. But since when did evil lurk on its own? It simply does not. Evil acts out in pairs and attacks thrice until an army is grown from the ashes and the sand that the flames leave behind. The village is burning and the flames require dousing if my garden is to continue to flourish.

My loyalty lies not with the village but rather with the garden, with the flowers that bloom, with the grass that grows. I realise that now. This world would bloom with my garden if those who do not appreciate the smell of roses were vanquished. Evil does not care about beauty and as such would be best ridden from the earth. And to the village idiots that stamp on my flowers and give me reason to believe they are weeds: I feel no remorse. But there is still one thing I am left to wonder, are the evil and the weeds one and the same? Of course, weeds are inherently evil but are the evil inherently weeds? I must conclude that both are not welcome.

I concede that I also have fear amongst my wonder. Like, say, what would happen to my garden if I were to become nothing but dust? There is no way for me to pass on the rose. The gardener is a guardian of the garden. So, it is settled then. I cannot die; to do so would be condemning the flowers to burn. It was obvious that moz was evil, and I pushed him hard. To the town of whom I am not aligned I have done a good deed, a contribution, and to that I am proud. But then I recalled that getting such an action right would be asking for the evil doers to retaliate against me. moz was not fooling anyone with his pretence that he was the doctor. He claimed a name, and we are not named. So I used the opportunity to play a fool, to devalue myself. To pretend that I had believed the claim in the end. I pray only that my efforts were enough to throw them off the scent. By pretending not to understand the meaning of a claimed name I emit the impression that I have no greater role than to participate.

With 1 evil down I must pluck a weed. After being bipolar over my choice throughout the day, during this night only 1 name springs to mind. Joey. He seemed to take pride in associating himself with the now confirmed evil. As the world came crashing down for moz, Joey's silence screamed volume. Joey had emphasised the importance of getting the votes sorted for the end of the day yet he was not around to do so? If his previous activity is anything to go by, he should have been more than capable to make comment at the time of the claim. I've always seen a light in Joey's eye that seems to suggest he has no appreciation of nature. Tonight, that light goes out and flowers will be grown in his place as I choose to pluck the weed that is Joey_.

N2:

The scent of my flowers has all but lead the town astray into haplessly wrong theories of 2 works of evil. It would appear that I am the only one who saw the Joey-Moz connection and this makes me feel a fool, one I have not made pretence to be. I have never been good at judging character which makes me anxious as the flames move in closer and the sky turns to black.

The death of Joey was the work of yours truly; this means the death of trust itself can only be the work of evil. Presently, I am the only village folk that can hunt by association. Who would want rid of dear old Albert? My analysis of his opinions yield no result. Johan was the only real suspect but has since been watered beyond what was necessary. Could Dunkerdoodles have had influence in the dissolution of trust? His claim would suggest not. But why dissolve? This method of death is rather specific. Is this the way in which he died or the way in which he was killed? If this is a method of death then could trust be one of those rights made of pure phantasmal bonds and hence dissolved?

My thoughts tonight are that of uncertainty. All those who have spoken appear to articulate the truth and I cannot deduct foul play behind their claims. I have nagging doubts about Hopkirk's play and distrust his motive to help the town. It is as though he is a weed choking a flower from beneath the soil and out of sight of the guardian. However, this view is nothing more than the inner feeling you get when you think it's about to rain despite the clear sky; it doesn't always rain. The opinions of the town also lead me to believe that perhaps I am too quick to assume that Dunkerdoodles can track those who wander at night? If my presumption is correct then that makes him a threat to my nightly gardening and a valuable asset in trimming weeds.

So with role claims confusing my indication of who I can trust, I instead choose to experiment. A theory was discussed during the day but presently holds little water. But even the smallest quantities of water can douse a flame if used correctly. This theory was if Moz's screams were because of what he was or were they to do with how he was killed? Who on his wagon could cause him to turn to dust? If this theory is true then there is one thing for certain, those responsible for Moz's transformation did not help to kill Raya. There are 2 individuals who match this description: Ibuki and CytheVoyager. I do not trust myself to decide between the 2. So instead, I took to the stated opinions of the town over which one is preferable to be ridden. It seems the town has inadvertently voted Ibuki Meowda and they shall be the weed I pluck tonight.


Now let's not forget the precious gift that has been bestowed on me by Bins. I think it would be most wise to use this precious tool at the earliest convenience and I am going to do so, especially given the circumstances. For earlier today we were told that the very person who gave me such a beneficial gift was guilty of something. I do not believe this to be true for even a single second. But could these results be that of insanity? The proceedings of this night shall give an answer but would drealmerz accurately relay this information, does he already know the answer? There is nothing to stop him from lying about his sanity if he had evil intent. Should the evil doers permit drealmerz to live through this night then I would want to know to whom he is aligned. To find out where drealmerz7's intent lies I am required to investigate him with the help of a tool.

N3:

Today I have lied and deceived the town, but these actions are for the greater good. The flowers must continue to grow. Tonight, they are blooming more than ever. The Daisys are dancing, the Alliums are singing and the Buttercups are whistling; such a perfect harmony. All the while they are at the most risk of being starved. A doctor claim draws attention, attention that I hope is not too hostile. My garden needs watering and if the liquid that fills the can is that of blood then so be it; I just pray that it is not my own.

6 of us remain. The truth of Drealmerz has been gifted to me by Bins so he is of no threat. I, of course, am of no threat to myself. A simple cookie gift is too of no threat. But Fern, Dunker and Hopkirk are all willing to trample flowers to reach their own victories. I am almost certain that Fern is the last of the evil and his sight into my play makes him the biggest threat. However, his evil intent is obvious to many and he would make a fine lynch for the day ahead. To further this, UCV's recent demise can only have fuelled his rage towards Hopkirk and thus I predict that this is to be the evil's target for the night. If evil does see me as the biggest threat, then my last resort be that Hopkirk gains the impression that, should he protect me and I protect him, we would become invulnerable. Or better yet, may I harness the protection of the poppies in preventing my own fatality within the night. Regardless, I am placing faith in that Hopkirk dies tonight.

If I am to survive the night, then the biggest threat would be the results of Dunker. If he is to see me target someone who dies then my illusion that a failed protection yields no visit would be shattered in mere moments and my lies will be busted. The flowers would shrivel up and lay dormant as all hope of growth is poisoned. But Dunker is also most useful. The obvious targets to watch are the protectives who are at most risk. If I am to die tonight, then I would hope that my killer is caught as I would much prefer evil vanquished than the town to burn. But ideally, I'd hope that Dunker could watch on as Fern takes the life of Hopkirk and solidify the lynch of tomorrow.

For the blossoming of my garden to be inevitable, I require 2 of those who are town to die tonight and for evil to be eradicated tomorrow. I cannot die and I cannot be caught. There is little I can do to prevent my death but to prevent being caught is well within my power. To avoid Dunker's detection I must trim either drealmerz or the Ghostly Penguin. Killing drealmerz would give me town cred in that I have confirmed him as town, but if his township is already agreed then leaving him alive would have us both confirmed town making a Fern lynch far easier. However, as I am not fully trusted, nor is my town confirmation on drealmerz. To keep him alive would be helpful in wagoning another. So it is settled, the weed that should be cut down tonight will be Ghostly Penguin. Now they have a reason for their silence.

[mutantdevle]

Personally, I really fucking loved this game. Mysteries and having to theorize about things is what drew me to mafia in general in the first place. So to play a game that really profits on that as much as possible was a dream come true for me (even if most of my theories were wrong). @Socrates, I hope you host more games like this in the future because I really enjoyed this game and it is probably the most fun I've ever had on any mafia game. I really wish that these types of games were more common amongst this community because they are honestly incredibly fun to play :D

I'm not too sure if a lot of people would share that sentiment but I certainly enjoyed this game and plan to play every game that has the same mysterious concept if I can <3

[mutantdevle]

The in character stuff you did was really nice, mutant.

Thanks :3


@UCV I don't think anyone really believed your role claim tbh. It's always worth a shot when you're scum in that position but I really don't think the modkill changed too much other than cutting the day a little shorter than it would have been.

@Dunker, who would you have watched N3?

[mutantdevle]

Any chance of getting access to the scum and dead PTs? I don't know if I've missed it somewhere but I don't think Socrates has mentioned anything about releasing them.

[mutantdevle]

lol. once again, im scum and mutant is town PR. lol

It makes me think I should policy lynch you in any game we are in together and I have a PR :3

[mutantdevle]

/pre-in for your next game.

I certainly enjoyed the role and flavour madness of this game.