Mini 1992 - One-Shot Mafia - GAME OVER

[Sir Bastion]

*yawn*

/late confirm

first game in just under 2 years so I might be out on the current meta

can we get a timezone and availability check in

GMT

I have access to mafiascum at work so I am available to use my vote

post 9:30am - 6pm

then 8pm - 11pm

accounting of course for my habit of getting distract....

oooh shiny!


VOTE: penguinpower


is that how it goes again


yeah the shiny button is working

[Sir Bastion]

Though Nexus isnt here...and he would agree too...

I think I played with Nexus before?

This is honestly all i can contribute, games where a chunk of players know each other (

intimately

) are difficult to get a grasp on

so I am grabbing onto the one name I sort of recognise and using it as a lifeboat until I can find something concrete to stab at.

[Sir Bastion]

Aha!

Now I see he modded that history mafia game that I got completely rolled over in.

[Sir Bastion]

infighting among the green beans!

this is the blueberries chance to overthrow them!

charge!

[Sir Bastion]

Aha!

Now I see he modded that history mafia game that I got completely rolled over in.

I also got #rekt in that game iirc

is daychat mafia still the meta for most of the website?

It was at that time and when you get really organised scum (as we had in that game) they destroyed town.

[Sir Bastion]

not sure about you either.

are you saying you are finished with RVS?

[Sir Bastion]

People I dont like

Bambiatte Baterbine -nothing rubs me wrong so quickly as a player answering for another player without reason. Its counter productive

LoveBird -oddly a lot of people are town reading them and I am not, null at best but really something feels off over the whole exchange over gif, he's both defending him and dismissing him


so

VOTE: Bombiatte Baterbine



People I like

Alisae: pushing makes me makes happy


Also I have 2 quick mod question

@MOD: Am I right that if town successfully lynch scum and it was a town person who hammered, they gain that scum's 1 shot ability? And secondly is the 1 shot ability made public on death so everybody knows what that ability is and who has it before we go into night?

[Sir Bastion]

oooh

thank you

[Sir Bastion]

@Reckoner

I actually have reasons from experience for most of my actions if you want me to pinpoint the exact posts in my history for them (the meta and timezone bits at least) we can, but if thats not necessary we'll get back to the game at hand.

For the opportunistic spot on a wagon. I'm going to assume you made this mistake because of the order of the votes in the votecount

But it looks like I didnt actually join a wagon..


right now post 225 is all sorts of wrong logic.

@Bambi do you have issues/concerns with those that started the UT wagon?

[Sir Bastion]

he is basing a read on bambi for "bad logic' when it is an emotional post, while at the same time giving her an out with the italicized.

how many times do we get the privilege of seeing coaching in a thread? not often, actually pretty seldom but wldn't it be glorious if this were true?

I dont really consider that an out as I actually want an answer, so great timing bringing it back to the forefront because in all of bambi's whinging about people being unfair to her (with another post at here which again repeats the same issue but now with the person on the wagon after her) she did skip over answering it and I want it answered.

[Sir Bastion]

Ok let's try keep it simple

I have done nothing to you, LSG dude.

I wasn't even the one who started the main wagons on them. Ari and Penguin did. Unipod went for me as the weakest link.

This was a response to Reckoner voting you correct?


Part of your defence was "I wasn't even the one who started the main wagons on them"

My question is do you have an issue Ari's and Penguin's position on the wagon?

Then in a similar thread later on

The scum reads on me are because appearantly I'm an easy target and Reck hates anime alts. I'm trying to not talk to anyone in particular even if certain points jab to UT. I'm broadcasting my thoughts looking for responses for this hole I'm sinking into by accident.

Mollie seems like a decent gal, she's actually questioning shit and I don't think she's put her vote anywhere seriously. I am fully endorsing we let her hammer to let someone responsible have the ability of whoever we hang. Even me. That's how much I town read her at this moment.

Not_Mafia suddenly reacts with a rather screwy vote on a pun of my name.

He's expecting you all to ignore that AGAIN. If we don't get UT please get him.

I'm going to question why Lovebird is so townread and why I think we all forgot about Bastion at the moment. Aristophanes is also nowhere to be seen.

Pedit: Like 15 posts God damn. I'll respond to them next.

Again you are raising what seems to be a concern that up until the vote turned against you was not an issue.

Not_Mafia being on the UT wagon was not an issue for 200 posts until post 309 you raised no concern of the silent person sitting on the wagon behind you

and the issue you do raise 200 posts later seems to be more that he's not helping to push UT into the noose:

"And currently I'm leaning scum on Not_Mafia for bailing out right now while Tripod takes center stage to not have any connections to him. And if Tripod is scum then I'm personally betting on Reck being town."

which is sort of different issue to what you flag after he votes for you.

Suddenly his screwy posting style is an issue and should be flagged. And it's the fault of the rest of us for ignoring him and suddenly his odd play is a problem you have dealt with numerous times.

I dont doubt you've dealt with his screwy posting style before. But I do have an issue that prior to him changing his vote to you his screwy posting style wasnt a problem.

Which makes me think you are scum that was willing to let him run around as idiot lynch bait.

Now he's causing a problem for you and suddenly things change and you are forced to play a meta card against him

"Because this may very well mark the SEVENTH time I'm dealing with him now. First time I met him he wrecked me as scum for doing this. Second time I had basically policy lynched him with Mathdino but appearantly they were scum buddies and Dino won that. Third time was open 711 and it did NOT turn out well for town. Fourth through Sixth is still ongoing and not under discussion.

but of the three times completed games with him, scum has won. He's doing what he's been doing in those games too."

it took you over 300 posts to flag this?

Contrast that to most other posters who have had past games with each other here, Reckoner mollie etc who have openly dumped prior issues with other players openly very early on. Thats a null action but holding onto a meta issue you had with a player until it's convenient for putting pressure on or off a player is scummy imho.

So yeah you are acting scummy in my eyes, regardless of how em

[Sir Bastion]

majiffy shld be the lynch today cos it resolve 2 tons of shit

and vet several players

when he flips scum.

explain this like i'm 5 please?

[Sir Bastion]

My position on Majiffy and his wagon is mostly null.

I dont think much of his posting, but in my personal listing there have been worse players today and there are players who deserve more pressure then him, so I feel like I'm better suited focusing elsewhere.

day 1 wagons tend to be almost entirely town carried in my experience regardless of the target's alignment so I disagree with Alisae into trying to read into the wagon until much later in the game.

but I agree with Reckoner on the point he raised in 505

so I'm waiting on what happens next with him, i'm expecting 1 of 3 outcomes and depending which one it is, I'll have a stronger sense of his alignment.


I have 3 points I'd like follow ups on

[Sir Bastion]

Point 1
Personally I still want a response from bambi for 451 first and foremost.

But seeing as all the action happens when I'm asleep I'd also like to chase up my other suspicions

This is my first and foremost issue so it's where my vote is staying, I wont accept another night of sordid activity to be the excuse to avoid responding

[Sir Bastion]

point 2


And I think Lovebird is looking pretty scummy at the moment imo.

There is a lot of *thinking people are town* posts from her me penguin Bambiatte me again bambiatte again

coupled with those classic seeds to look town when town is going to mislynch here and general pro town noise *lets not rush into this

also she clearly has a case with Alisae and raised it clearly here [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewt ... 9]and here

but she's never voted or pushed Alisae on it.


So while my vote is on Bambi, I want something substantial from lovebird

[Sir Bastion]

actually it turned out point 3 was me misreading one of Alisae's posts

[Sir Bastion]

Do you still think Not_Mafia is scummy?

[Sir Bastion]

What's scummy about thinking people are town, bastion?

nothing wrong with thinking it.

but when it makes up one of the larger chunks of your posting history, it does look disingenuous.

why did you feel it was necessary to announce X or Y was town?

I can understand if you had buttheads with these players and you decided based on how they responded that they were town and made such a statement but you havnt butted heads with anyone.

[Sir Bastion]

l
coupled with those classic seeds to look town when town is going to mislynch here and general pro town noise *lets not rush into this

Is it scummy to not want to rush when town is actually rushing?

are we rushing?

Do you genuinely think town is rushing right now?

What urged that post specifically?

[Sir Bastion]

Town should be sharing their thoughts, so I do

Yes, majiffy was pretty close to getting hammered.

Town should be pushing, not sharing their thoughts,

your not pushing, the question is why and I feel the answer is because your scum

as for the Majiffy wagon, 2 players had unvoted taking his vote count back to 4 before you posted.

Give us a sample of your current reads.

Who do you think is scum?

I dont care who you think is town

just scum and why

if you mention town I'm voting you.

[Sir Bastion]

i'm here at the moment if anyone has any short term thoughts or question they want to bounce off me or stab me with.

It's kind of nice to be in this room the same time as a lot of people. And not playing catch up the next morning

[Sir Bastion]

Boom PAGETOP!

[Sir Bastion]

give me about 2 and half hours from now (roughly) as I'm just finishing up work now and it takes me a bit of time to get home and also sort out dinner and other stuff

[Sir Bastion]

pagetop?

[Sir Bastion]

also lovebird only calling out townreads instead of scumreads is a red flag because it's way easier for scum to just call people town than commit to a push

I think it's easier to see reasons why people are town than reasons they're scum. There's also more town than there are scum, so it makes sense.

I've called out scumreads anyways.

no it doesnt, cause we know shit

we all know shit

its day 1 we have no info. Everything changes when the first lynch happens and all those reads and town feels go out the fecking window and you are back at square 1.

Push people, kick dirt in their eyes, get them flustured it's better in the long run.


As for your scumreads. If you are refering to this gem of a post

then thats utter garbage

are you scumreading reck for the same reasons as Kokichu?

what about UT are you sheeping Kokichu on that or someone else?


The only person you raised any issue with you never pushed.

So no give a real scumread. Say what it is about them that makes you suspect.

VOTE: Lovebird

[Sir Bastion]

Good post by Bastion, I could see Lovebird being scum now. They could just be trying to buddy off my reads.

I dont think I have quotation marks big enough to put around your reads

[Sir Bastion]

If everything changes after day one then why are scumreads better than townreads?

because when you say someone was town and they flip town you got nothing to build on.

when you say someone was town and they flip scum you got less then nothing to build on

when you say someone is scum and they flip town you can review how other people treated your case, who sheeped you, who opposed you etc

when you say some is scum and they flip scum suddenly your case is a cornerstone and people's activity around it becomes very important.


If you flipped scum on day 3, people will take more interest in the players who tried to pour water on me pushing you on day 1. Gif might be looked at for 624 (will get to that)

If Bambi flipped scum on day 3, you saying he was town on day 1 means nothing and adds nothing except perhaps some pressure on you, which if you are town is not what any of us want.

[Sir Bastion]

Am I reading this wrong, or is this one of those "misinterpreting play style difference as alignment difference" thing?

We wont know til later.

I've had play style headbutts before, probably one of the most prominent was Albert B Rampage, got 3 games in a row with him and the two of us constantly ended up trying to lynch each other and always we were both town. I'd like to think I've learnt since then so there a things I watch out for and they haven't happened yet.

[Sir Bastion]

Bastion, you're telling me why you think that scumreads are more useful than townreads but you're not telling me why my alleged lack of them makes me scum.

because its a form of active lurking, giving townreads and making helpful town fluff posts keeps you active enough that your absence isn't noted from the major debates and you coax through day 1.

which frankly is what it looked like to me when I reviewed your posting, especially around the Majiffy push where you didnt push any opposing wagon (and saying you were scumreading Alisaw is bs when you are not voting them), but you were still making these posts about not rushing and he might be town or he might scum, all of it feels like a scum player expecting the majiffy lynch to go through and knowing it'll flip town.

The difference between you and Not_Mafia is he may also be active lurking but he's throwing his vote on to the biggest wagons which tells us a lot more about him and his position then yours despite having a fraction of the posts.

[Sir Bastion]

How does voting the biggest wagon regardless of who it is say anything about his position?

Vote for who you think is scum

not just the biggest wagon.

If you thought Alisae is scummier then Majiffy then you should have been voting him regardless.

[Sir Bastion]

I think you misinterpreted what I said.

Indeed I did, on the most simple terms its not avoiding people.

I cant speak for what not_mafia gets from it. But I learn a bit from him joining the biggest wagon with next to no content I can learn a lot from how those on the wagon respond or even the person who's being wagoned.

We saw that when he changed his vote to Bambi, who suddenly cried wolf about past games with not_mafia when he didnt the prior times he has joined wagons (and appears to have dropped it since he's moved to a different wagon)

[Sir Bastion]

Kokichi

why did you pick this post as your counter meta-example for reckoner's posting style?


this post is a closer comparison in terms of context, it's early day 1 and it's his first read of the players in game.


Is it because in all his anime hating glory there's not a lot different between his play there and his play here?

[Sir Bastion]

I think you misinterpreted what I said.

Indeed I did, on the most simple terms its not avoiding people.

I cant speak for what not_mafia gets from it. But I learn a bit from him joining the biggest wagon with next to no content I can learn a lot from how those on the wagon respond or even the person who's being wagoned.

We saw that when he changed his vote to Bambi, who suddenly cried wolf about past games with not_mafia when he didnt the prior times he has joined wagons (and appears to have dropped it since he's moved to a different wagon)

huh

when you say that bambi "cried wolf" what do you mean here? do you think she is faking being pushed for her playstyle?

I was referring to her suddenly having a rather intense case against nm for meta reasons that she didnt play at all the prior times he did his random vote hope, but did play immediately when he pushed her.

[Sir Bastion]

Why is Majiffy lynch collapsing? I've seen nothing that should have caused that

he's raged out and currently on the clock to see if he intends to come back or not.

There's a genuine discussion to have on what to do if he passes the 48 hour mark without making any effort to get back into the game and how people see that action in terms of alignment etc.

But until we hit that point I see no problem pushing and prodding other players.

[Sir Bastion]

I want to hear from penguinpower.

one of the few things we might agree on, penguin has vanished since page 21, so I'd like to hear if his thoughts and concerns have developed since?

[Sir Bastion]

so Reck how does it feel to have pulled a town PM in the same game I pulled a town PM

pretty good, right?

are penguin and aristophes still on you from their RVS votes?

[Sir Bastion]

choo choo, lynches away

So you are 100% he's found scum bailing from the game?

[Sir Bastion]

im still confident on him being scum and his /out isnt doing the slot any favors, so yeah, let's go

I was fairly confident it was a scum bow out due to the large gap between his rage quit and requesting a replacement. i had it pegged that if he was still active but was avoiding the game I would have pushed for a lynch before even considering a replacemnt.

But it looks like he bowed out of the sign up thread for another game at the same time which says his anger is genuine and possibly quite deep.

So his quit isnt as scum leaning as I was first suspecting. If it had I'd be pushing we lynch him before a replacement shows up.


That being said I still agree with you his reaction to the hammer was off and it's one of those sort of ever deepening discussions I rather not have day 2 onwards, especially as we seem to already have 1 in relation to you too

so yeah I can be up for a majiffy lynch

VOTE: majiffy

[Sir Bastion]

For those not willing to travel beyond the thread

Sorry to anyone that was looking to play with me but I'm gonna /out

Site meta has changed too much and games feel more like a chore than something fun to do in my off time

[Sir Bastion]

I'd like to hear a claim from Bambi so I'm comfortable putting this vote up

VOTE: Bambi

[Sir Bastion]

UNVOTE:

you know I think we've only had one other player ran up to L-1 this game.

do you know whats different here and that other player (Majiffy/Mulch)

It took that player actually showing up and raging out of the game in spectacular fashion for someone to retract their vote on him.

Why is Bambi special that you pull him back from the cliff edge before he even shows up?

My bastion townread just stopped existing.

You keep ringing that bell and keep waiting for someone else to come do your job for you

[Sir Bastion]

I'll ring my bell as much as I want.

and achieve nothing

[Sir Bastion]

actually...it might be best to not claim.

all it does is give scum information to decide whether or not to kill the person who hammers

*cough*

there is a reason I asked

[Sir Bastion]

like usually you wait for claim because if it's a strong power role you want it to stay in the game
but the mechanics here allow for it to stay in the game anyway

You know this is the first time i've really disliked one of your posts.

I guess I read you as someone who gave a few minutes thinking how the mechanics will play out. So this feels a bit false to me.

[Sir Bastion]

Alisae, you know not_mafia is already on the wagon right?

[Sir Bastion]

also are we going to have a discussion on how the lynching in this game will play out or are we going to stop that topic now so not to feed scum ideas?

I rather not feed scum so I recommend if you haven't already then give 2 minutes to think of whats been established in terms of the game mechanics and how it will affect both the lynch and the night actions and get back to hunting.

[Sir Bastion]

Cards on the table depending on how this is answered.

@Not_Mafia: Do you have in your role a restriction put on you if you are the one to hammer?

[Sir Bastion]

Cards on the table depending on how this is answered.

@Not_Mafia: Do you have in your role a restriction put on you if you are the one to hammer?

Yes

Ok CARDS FULL ON THE TABLE

I have the same restriction and I think all town players do

Meaning I think Bambi is scum (the rule wasnt in her claim) and I think Kokichi is scum trying to reclaim whatever her role is via hammer and doesnt realise there is such restriction

[Sir Bastion]

@all players If you have a restriction on your ability to use your 1 shot when you hammer like me and Not_Mafia then both Bambi and Kokkichi have outted themselves as scum.

[Sir Bastion]

@all players If you have a restriction on your ability to use your 1 shot when you hammer like me and Not_Mafia then both Bambi and Kokkichi have outted themselves as scum.

i dont even understand what you're saying
mine has nothing about hammers in it

aww pity

that would have been a beautiful way to end day 1 if it was the case.

My role has a restriction (Conscientious) that if I hammer then I cant use any 1 shot the following night.

Meaning if I hammered Bambi, then her supposed super duper watching power I wouldnt be able to use it the following night at all.

I had actually misread and assumed that this was public knowledge and affected everyone, only just realised when bambi claimed that it was only in my role pm.

I've been reading not_mafia all game with this knowledge because I've been assuming he's been getting on every wagon as quickly as possible to avoid being forced to be the one to hammer.

So when he confirmed that yes he does have that restriction I had hoped that it was a restriction put on all town players and because both Kokko and Bambi seem oblivious to it, then it wasnt on scum roles and they had just outed themselves.

I would have expected it to be on Bambi's role at least considering how insanely powerful.

Shame...That I dont get such a clean sweep on day 1.

But I'll take lynching one scum all the same.

Bastion who do you want to have hammer as well

not me or not_mafia as we'll both be useless with any power if we are the only ones with that limitation, we'd just get picked off straight away the following night. There will be a one shot, it will likely not be the super watcher power cause I'm fairly confident bambi is scum so I'd feel a bit more confident with Tripod holding it.

[Sir Bastion]

Cards on the table depending on how this is answered.

@Not_Mafia: Do you have in your role a restriction put on you if you are the one to hammer?

Yes

Ok CARDS FULL ON THE TABLE

I have the same restriction and I think all town players do

Meaning I think Bambi is scum (the rule wasnt in her claim) and I think Kokichi is scum trying to reclaim whatever her role is via hammer and doesnt realise there is such restriction

Im town and I have no such restriction.

yes its been sadly established that only me and Not_mafia have this restriction (or just me if not_mafia is leading me on) I dont think anyone else needs to claim if they have this restriction or not (just to deny too much info getting out)

[Sir Bastion]

So what's the plan

lynch Bambi

I'm sorry but I dont get whats so special about bambi that the town opted to get drunk over who gets to hammer instead of following through.

[Sir Bastion]

So what's the plan

lynch Bambi

I'm sorry but I dont get whats so special about bambi that the town opted to get drunk over who gets to hammer instead of following through.

hammering is a pretty important game mechanic hth

I dont disagree, but I question why a wagon that as far as I can tell was not massively opposed appeared to collapse with almost no defence from the suspect because people couldnt agree on who should do the hammer.

Very few (if anyone) accepted the claim, no one is realistically pushing a counter wagon outside of feelings.


If hammering was so damn important why didnt anyone put the breaks on a wagon for this discussion the previous wagons were at their heights?

why didnt you when you helped put Majiffy at L-1?

I'm not accusing you of being scummy for not bringing it up, I'm accusing scum of either using or exploiting the hammer discussion to derail a wagon

remember the discussion of hammering etiquette stared before Bambi responded.

it was the response to them being put at L-1 started here.

the agreement to stop some players from having the hammer has basically made it impossible to actually do the hammer. It's no longer a majority needed it's a super majority because all is needed is for scum to be one of those players nobody wants gaining another power to clog up a lynch.

@Kokkochi: Do you have any other reason beside your fetish for hammers for why you are still off bambi's wagon?

I wld find it really funny if bambi and bastion were scum and having to tell them how to play as scum.

it wld make this the best game ever

Not sure I follow?

[Sir Bastion]

???

what will fissure do?

[Sir Bastion]

That feels very mean.
What if, instead, we VOTE: Aristophanes.

Would also be willing to hammer Bambi

you are not willing to let mollie or someone else hammer? And just get on the wagon?

[Sir Bastion]

Still think this was a bad idea.

remember what I told you about your bell

[Sir Bastion]

is this passive aggressive gloating?

[Sir Bastion]

@lovebird thats adorable

[Sir Bastion]

if we have a vig I'd really like someone to to shoot Kokkichi please

[Sir Bastion]

Also I assume the passive is you destroying your role so town cant gain it?

[Sir Bastion]

Reck let me tickly your fantasy.

what if all scum members have anime avatars...

wont you enjoy lynching them.

[Sir Bastion]

ari clean up that spilled milk please

[Sir Bastion]

VOTE: Kokichi

I want to talk about that unvote on bambi yesterday

[Sir Bastion]

VOTE: Kokichi

I want to talk about that unvote on bambi yesterday

I wanted to hammer. And I wasn't here when everyone voted her. I scumread her the whole day. Also if you look at her role, if I was scum I wouldn't care who hammered or even tried to make myself look suspicious over it.

If you were town, I think you'd think of that.

Where's that meme picture of the chef giving the greasiest satisfaction smile?


VOTE: penguin power

I dont think we've crossed paths much day 1.

Tell me your thoughts here at the dawn of the 2nd day.

[Sir Bastion]

this will do

[Sir Bastion]

Wait your turn.

tit for tat fine.

I'm fairly confident that Mollie is town for the time being based on the end of yesterday. It seems rather a waste to reveal that scum can burn their powers in the long run for the short term gain of make a player who everyone was already town reading look more townlike. It would have been much more efficient to keep mum and leave mollie today trying to explain why she couldnt use the power which would have been a much effective route to getting town drunk.

On the actual kill I also dont get Reckoner's obvious kill comment fully, (P-Edit now I do its sort of close to mine)

I have my own thoughts for why Alisae was killed as I think it was more information denying then removing a threat or power role hunting. Unless of course I missed some sort of docslip during day 1. (I dont think it was Alisae that brought up protective roles)

as for today, I want to prod in and around you and Guyinfreezer today. If fissure etc are going to continue their campaign against Reckoner I'll let them drag any and all info out of each other. So no initiative needed from me there, I can pick at what comes up. I expect the same for Ari if he tries to lurk day 2 and Lovebird (my only carry over from day 1) is really in their court.

So I want to talk to you and Gif, Get to know you better.

tit for tat your turn.

[Sir Bastion]

Where's that meme picture of the chef giving the greasiest satisfaction smile?

So was that a reaction test vote? I don't understand your premises. What was your thought process

thought process was its the opposite to this:

It's a teaching experience for me at the moment...

which = scum in my experience and I was happily proven right.

while this

If you were town, I think you'd think of that.

= town or competent scum.

picking a fight with competent scum early day 2 is a pointless affair and if your town, well your town. No point beating that dead horse for now.

[Sir Bastion]

also see that cake!

Yum!

[Sir Bastion]

Huh my role has been outted.

Why so quickly?

do people have any questions?




On the Kokichi discussion my only issue is the whole I unvoted because I wanted to hammer discussion is an ever revolving door, I dont consider it a strong defence of the unvote but its not a slamdunk of kokichi = scum either.

Its annoying that they unvoted and it was only when I pressed them on it did the hammer discussion came up.

which to me is still the oddest thing about yesterday, even if kokichi is town I still think scum had a hand in persisting that discussion.

Some highlights aside from kokichi from that topic include:

Reckoner asking for the hammer as he was less likely to be shot n1 and persistence on that 10 pages later.

Ari's throwing out the risk of self hammers and then guyinfreezer seeding the same idea to clear bambi because she didnt self hammer

penguin asking us to move on from the wagon because "we all wanted different wagons"

I even think Lovebird suddenly threw in a strongarm role potential randomly.

There's a lot in page 40 - 50 that delayed and at one point almost killed a wagon that pretty much never involved the actual culprit defending themselves much.

[Sir Bastion]

also the whole scumreading Bambi position from kokichi lines up in words but not so much in action as you never joined a bambi vote until the one that you unvoted from

[Sir Bastion]

Bastion's a neighbouriser

[Sir Bastion]

process of elimination, first time as a neighbour so just wanted to get someone I was somewhat confident in.

I didnt want to neighbourise anyone who replaced in day 1, nor anyone who has rubbed me the wrong way day 1.

so thats you, fissure, lovebird and kokochi off the list.

Like a lot of people end of day 1 I expected mollie to be the nightkill last night so didnt think it was worth wasting my shot trying to neighbourise them.

i have a few personal scumsigns that I tend to note, one of which is scum have a terrible habit of voting other scum in RVS so I didnt want to risk Tripod. Who was going to be my first choice until I saw that and decided to sit on the side of caution.

Of the remaining 4, not_mafia is the only one who I felt confident that I read his voting habits right and was town. Gif and Ari put me off for reasons I mentioned in the above post around Bambi's lynch and while they now have flipped town I wasnt confident in Alisae either.

[Sir Bastion]

shameless (didnt feel the need to justify any of his votes), mobile (moved his vote a lot) and with a hint of pressure.

that and he confirmed near the end of day 1 that how I was reading his votes was correct in terms of him being on the wagon but not being the one who hammers and partially lined up with my own voting restriction.

I'll actually say i've developed more doubts since neighbourizing with him then I had when I wasnt a neighbour so it does feel like I got what I deserved for being over confident.

[Sir Bastion]

shameless (didnt feel the need to justify any of his votes), mobile (moved his vote a lot) and with a hint of pressure.

that and he confirmed near the end of day 1 that how I was reading his votes was correct in terms of him being on the wagon but not being the one who hammers and partially lined up with my own voting restriction.

I'll actually say i've developed more doubts since neighbourizing with him then I had when I wasnt a neighbour so it does feel like I got what I deserved for being over confident.

what was your voting restriction?

I covered this already, but if I hammer i cant use my power or any other power I may gain for the following night.

shameless (didnt feel the need to justify any of his votes), mobile (moved his vote a lot) and with a hint of pressure.

that and he confirmed near the end of day 1 that how I was reading his votes was correct in terms of him being on the wagon but not being the one who hammers and partially lined up with my own voting restriction.

I'll actually say i've developed more doubts since neighbourizing with him then I had when I wasnt a neighbour so it does feel like I got what I deserved for being over confident.

so...he vote hopped and didnt explain it, therefore he's town?

boy howdy, that's a new one

On day 1, yes, on day 1 where people genuinely know fuck all about anyone else, it is more towny to be vote hoping and intentional disruptive.

It was because of this that I locked onto bambi as scum when she tried to throw suspicion on to not_mafia when he voted her but she ignored him when he vote hoped to any one else.

So yeah it may be new to you but it's not new to me.

[Sir Bastion]

i'm still owed some tit for tat from penguin.

[Sir Bastion]

clearly Alisae was killed because without them nobody seems to post.

[Sir Bastion]

I wanted to push on Penguinpower and Gif today for some input and back and forth and both have vanished.

And Ari continues to lurk the game. Which didnt bother me as much day 1, but day 2 at the very least gave him time to catch up overnight and he hasn't.

he's lining up for a prod shortly, if he prod-dodges (again) i'm all for putting him under pressure to give substantial input.


it's a bit annoying that fissure has been calling me trash/garbage all game yet never seems to want to push me or anything on it.



As for you Mollie, could you just clarify again, you said on day 1 if bambi flipped scum you would expect reck to be town. here

[Sir Bastion]

but thats mostly from gut how you were reading the two from day 1?

[Sir Bastion]

but thats mostly from gut how you were reading the two from day 1?

I am going to answer a question with a question. are you reading reck or I as scum?

I was reading your interaction with each other as town vs town, but when reck is not in a fight with another player he comes across less reliable.

as tit for tat. what do you see as the link between me and fissure? By your theory I spent 2/3rds of day 1 bussing my partners, one of them to the noose if you believe its me, fissure and bambi.

@MOD: Please can you prod Ari?

he has passed the 48 hour mark. Though nice to note both penguin and Gif prod dodged.

[Sir Bastion]

Ari your talking about day 2 a lot in your posts but you have not made any comment about the final hours of day 1.

What are you thoughts on players based on the end of day 1, regardless of their pushing on you day 2?

[Sir Bastion]

at the moment i'm more annoyed at gif and penguin power for prod dodging and then vanishing again.

[Sir Bastion]

I never did get my tit for tat

[Sir Bastion]

Ari your talking about day 2 a lot in your posts but you have not made any comment about the final hours of day 1.

What are you thoughts on players based on the end of day 1, regardless of their pushing on you day 2?

Oh yeah, I uh, didn't read that yet :S

well how about you read that and respond and not wait for a prod this time please.

[Sir Bastion]

I'll wait on commenting on the fruit vendor discussion, I want to see if someone is going to claim being the fruit sales technician.

P-edit: Ok thats a claim from one of the people I was scumreading. Perfect storm of wine.

provided the track was successful, I can confirm what you did last night yes

Last night or tonight? I may have been misreading the role.

[Sir Bastion]

Hey Penguin could you point to where you were softing fruit seller please.

[Sir Bastion]

ahh, I assume some prior knowledge of who that was would make it obvious that it = fruit.

sadly lost on me.

[Sir Bastion]

but we've already seen the difference between town and scum roles.

explain this to me

[Sir Bastion]

Town roles we've seen have been pretty weak. Bambietta's role was strong.

Stop....

your setting my mind off on some wild thoughts.


Question:

Was Bambi's role strong for town, strong in general or strong for mafia?

[Sir Bastion]

I am disappoint.

you guys are meant to be posting in your timezone and I picking over them in my timezone

[Sir Bastion]

Fair few prods are in order.

Both Guyinfreezer and Mollie are over the time limit.

[Sir Bastion]

I will point that Mollie has been absent from the overall site since the 27th, but Gif is posting elsewhere happily so is clearly avoiding this game.

[Sir Bastion]

I will point that Mollie has been absent from the overall site since the 27th, but Gif is posting elsewhere happily so is clearly avoiding this game.

I have been waiting for some1 to actually ask me why I think ut is scum. I think it is funny that no1 thought to do so.

I was actually reading you as super scummy pushing UT for fake claiming he got fruit thinking you were scum fruit vendor who sent him the fruit then accused him of faking it. then Penguinpower claimed the role and my suspicion abided..

So I was waiting to see how your read was going to change post penguin claim.

[Sir Bastion]

Do you want a durian? It's all I have left.

isnt this meant to be a

one

shot powers game?

[Sir Bastion]

isnt this meant to be a oneshot powers game?

I'm not sure sure your intent there. It is a one-shot game.

Sorry I was under the impression that you were hinting you had a follow up shot of some sort?

People are making the fruit thing out to be a bigger deal to me than it actually is.

It's actually really important to me that you answer my question

Did you think the role bambi flipped a really strong role for a town player to hold, just a strong role in general or a strong role for a scum player?

so you're all in on a lurker wagon huh

again

he hasn't responded to the prod. So he may be replacing out entirely

I will point that Mollie has been absent from the overall site since the 27th, but Gif is posting elsewhere happily so is clearly avoiding this game.

I have been waiting for some1 to actually ask me why I think ut is scum. I think it is funny that no1 thought to do so.

I was actually reading you as super scummy pushing UT for fake claiming he got fruit thinking you were scum fruit vendor who sent him the fruit then accused him of faking it. then Penguinpower claimed the role and my suspicion abided..

So I was waiting to see how your read was going to change post penguin claim.

this is directed to kokichi as well.

my read is independent of the fruit vendor claim. its the nk. ut made no attempt to sort reck, nor to ward off suspicion off of him and reck had a lot, mostly cos a lot of pple were not agreeing with his list. ut finds me infinitely easier to manipulate. I copped reck over ut cos I had more reason to believe reck was town, and a cleared reck is very good for town. the reason I said I copped reck is because I don't trust you pple; not 1 of you entertained the thought that I had a very good reason to go from wanting to lynch reck to pretty much threatening bodily harm to pple's hypothetical kneecaps if they went after him. I will flip weak cop and I was afraid that there wld be pple who wld still dither about reck because "loltown".

ut is not voting, he is crouching on his vote to see where town will go. he did this with ari. he is saying "oh are we going after a lurker, are we?" while not doing a single freaking thing to move the game forward or try to figure out who scum are. and then wants the hammer.

and then he is doing this again, in this day round.

the delayed tracker can easily be used as a smokescreen to give a scummate cover. he knows that, he is an experienced player and he defo knows how work the mechanics angle of a game.

also and this is a relative tell, I am learning that whenever ut says, "mollie plz" it is usually him trying to placate me and trying to convince me to go against my better judgment and do what he wants me to do.

anyhoo those are my thoughts

I think you have a reasonable point on UT waiting on the sideline being scummy (though you could argue the same for me)

I'm going to re-read day 2 to see if your notion of him is correct.

I'm less convinced on the reck kill = UT scum as it is again a lot of personal meta between you and him and again a lot of the issues you are raising can be applied to me (I had almost no interaction with reck and didnt defend him either, and you did say day 1 that a bambi scum flip cleared reck so I gave little notice to your turnaround)

[Sir Bastion]

I don't really know about gif's unclaim or how it wld hurt town to claim it. I also think that scum wld try to look more protown. so I dunno.

I still think it might be ut. do you think he is town, bastion? if not why are you defending him and transposing the 2 of you as if I wld have the same expectations for 2 different players?

I wouldnt say I'm defending him, I am getting the feeling you are tunnelling him a bit. You came out strong against him at the beginning of Day 2 as well, which kind of doesnt line up with your claim that you want him lynched is because of the reck kill. You seem to have wanted him dead consistently. I dont think that makes you scum or him not scum, it just makes it difficult to read your case. I have similar feelings. I really feel like Fissure is scum, but its purely a gut feeling and I cant push a case on it, so why should I confuse a town with a bad case that is primarily driven by "I dont like him"

Yes GIF happily posting elsewhere and not here is frustrating to all end and not town like at all but the clock is out for him, he didnt pick up his prod within 24 hours and should be replaced, so we can sit waiting on his potential replacement

[Sir Bastion]

I'm catching up but lots of posts I need to respond to and consider so I am sorry it'll be a bit of wall of posts from me for a bit

I dont get mollie's push on UT at all right now. Like he can give us a tracker result, no need to want him lynched today.

I asked this earlier, but are you sure you've read how the delayed action works correctly?

Because by your own admission Ut's check is going to tell us sweet nothing.

If it tells us what you did last night

you already told us you did nothing last night

and you are pre warned of it if it tells us what you'd do tonight

So I dont get why you are asking us to ignore UT just to wait for a result that you claim will either give us nothing cause you did nothing or you can trick because you have been pre warned about it.

[Sir Bastion]

Yes, so why not get a result on me? If he fakes a report on me, then we have confirmed scum. When he says I didn't go anywhere, then you all know that as well and not just me saying it.

why would he fake a report?

Why would he unnecessarily pick a fight with you using a power that was announced in game and it's target given and on top of no one seems to have confirmed which day it reports on???

provided the track was successful, I can confirm what you did last night yes

last night as in last night that just went by which you've already said you did nothing

or last night as in he gets the report tomorrow morning and you were pre-warned that you were being tracked and can simply do nothing.

The reason not to lynch UT is to see if PP's claims have any truth to them.

Frankly you I have no issue with lynching today but I havnt fully caught up yet so I dont know where we actually stand in terms of VC (and the mod hasnt done one since I last posted)

[Sir Bastion]

UNVOTE:

you know I think we've only had one other player ran up to L-1 this game.

do you know whats different here and that other player (Majiffy/Mulch)

It took that player actually showing up and raging out of the game in spectacular fashion for someone to retract their vote on him.

Why is Bambi special that you pull him back from the cliff edge before he even shows up?

My bastion townread just stopped existing.

You keep ringing that bell and keep waiting for someone else to come do your job for you

don't like how big of a deal bastion makes about the unvote

feels like a potential TMI knowing that Bambietta is scum

also gut read is that bambietta was bussed even though it doesn't quite make sense in a PP universe, suddenly not feeling quite as great about PP lynch

Actually kind of glad you threw this out, because it reminded me that the first Bambi wagon collapsed the second NM put it at L-2 because the topic of who should hammer came up (by UT) and the topic of hammering was also something that almost derailed the second wagon (this time by Kokki).

It wasnt something that was on the Majiffy/mulch wagon I think when that reached L-1

and we know that the scum power to burn their role is not revealed if they choose not to use it:

Failsafe (Passive): If you are lynched and you have unused 1-shot abilities, you may choose one of them. It is not passed on to the hammerer.

This passive will not appear in your flip if you choose not to use its effect.

Also the first wagon of the day was on UT when Bambi came under pressure he tried to deflect by pointing at others on the UT wagon first which I always thought was weird it was even one of the things I pulled him up on later.

[Sir Bastion]

like PP scum makes a lot of sense as resigned scum but that would likely mean that their partner should be offwagon or also a late joiner and I'm not sure how well that meshes with the gamestate

but bastion as scum powerbussing and tying people to bambietta does make a lot of sense with the gamestate

fyi Bastion said in our neighbourhood he wants to lynch fissure or penguin today but then decided on pushing fissure

True but PP's claim gave me doubt and then lovebird's observation that Bambi had a really really strong role made me rethink, as I noticed it's a really strong role 'for town' but in a one shot it's not a particularly useful role for scum, so I was considering if there was some catch and N_M has told me things in the neighbourhood about his hammer restriction that made me question if scum as a whole have a hammer restriction.

But I took a break to realise it's my usual problem of reaching too far, that I grab one correct observation and then I try to grow it into something bigger and bigger and end up burying my correct observation below it. Which I've done before and I did today (it might be my most blatant town tell)

That observation that scum do have a power related to hammering, we already know it from the bambi flip and I should have paid more attention to the early game with that in mind which is what I'm currently doing (see previous post).

[Sir Bastion]

so I'm combing through Bambi's ISO for any spicy connections and I'm not finding much. Gif had a couple of weird posts that I've already quoted, but there's not a lot there

If you didn't notice the major gain in post count I don't know what to tell you. I've been listening mainly to Mollie,

Alisae

, UT, and a little bit of Oma and

Reck

. Forgive me for not seeing everything addressed to me.

I'm can, however, tell you that while I can't give a read on

Ari

yet I can townread Penguin. He's been quieter but he's tried to engage. Just seems townie to me.

anyone else have some thoughts about this post here?

she left out gif, fissure, bastion, nm and lovebird.

Yes she did leave me out because she was responding directly to me. I'm the 'you' in the "if you didnt notice the major gain in post count"

[Sir Bastion]

damn it I lost my page one second

[Sir Bastion]

have we properly revisited this since day 1?

How can I convince you I'm town when your already deadset on me being scum? Pushing more for you is apparently bussing because your trying to get me hung and WIFOM everyone to never push you after today.

Know what? Now that's just showing your true colors. You'll get me to L-1 and call my role bullshit even if my role has a lot of power for town. Someone here already asked for your role. I will be looking for scum elsewhere when you give me your role and fricken give straight answers too.

And currently I'm leaning scum on Not_Mafia for bailing out right now while Tripod takes center stage to not have any connections to him. And if Tripod is scum then I'm personally betting on Reck being town.

[Sir Bastion]

also on Profii

I meta'd them because of their arseway screwy way of playing catch up and found this: they appear to have little interest in day 1

so that might explain their desire to skip day 1 and go off the vc/mode notes

[Sir Bastion]

mod can we get a vc please

[Sir Bastion]

I'm not even sure how you both can think I'm the optimal vote here.

why would not_mafia be the optimal vote instead?

VOTE: Lovebird

for active lurking

because you are the only *active* player left who's never been on a completed wagon

GuyInFreezer/Radiant Cowbells/TBA NO COMPLETED WAGONS
Not_Mafia BOTH WAGONS
Pirate Mollie BOTH WAGONS
Untrod Tripod BOTH WAGONS
Fissure (Mulch) (Majiffy) BOTH WAGONS
Sir Bastion FIRST WAGON
Kokichi Oma SECOND WAGON
PenguinPower FIRST WAGON
Lovebird NO COMPLETED WAGONS


GIF was inactive day 2 and replacements wasnt around for any end of days.

So we can go back to pushing that empty slot

or we can ask you what exactly are you doing in this game?

there have been 18 votecounts this game

you've not been voting for 6 of them
you've only been on 2 wagons that got anywhere close to L-1 (the RVS on UT and the first wagon on bambi)
mentions ari 25 times, 21 if them on day 1 vocally defending him from being the day 1 lynch. 3 times on day 2 only once was a comment on him

Ari, you let me down. Why?

I can understand reads changing

Frankly you've been hitting that level of activity that you are not drawing the eye of people but you're also not contributing much.


So tell me who do you want lynched and why?

Dont tell me who you think is town I dont care.

I want you to tell me who you think is scum and why we should lynch them.

[Sir Bastion]

EDIT: I didnt finish a section

"I can understand reads changing" but openly defending ari from being lynched day 1, but let it pass with little no comment on day 2 while still mostly town reading him (accroding to your read of bambi's posts you said ari is likely town here

[Sir Bastion]

Actually, I think bambietta was been bussed hard.

When you say bussed hard are you saying you think all scum were on the wagon?

[Sir Bastion]

*changes to a legend of Korra avatar just to annoy both sides*

[Sir Bastion]

UNVOTE:

nope you are not voting

hence the *active lurking* accusation

[Sir Bastion]

Like this is borderline gamethrowing if UT actually tracked me.

Why do you keep insisting on this stupid line of thinking?

[Sir Bastion]

why would not_mafia be the optimal vote instead?

My vote on him is meta related, which I explained.

I dont buy meta unless the person claiming meta actually makes the effort to at least link to the game they are claiming to be proof of their meta.

I've already seen this game some stupid meta claims, one of which was already directed at Not_Mafia by Bambi.

So if you are going to say they are playing differently to their town game, point to their town game that is so different.

[Sir Bastion]

MOD: just heads up post 1 still says GIF is in the game

I had to go quickly check which one of the two new people had replaced who.

[Sir Bastion]

quick reminder lovebird is being very selective in her quote mining because GIF defended her as town just like he did Bambi:

Dunno some of what lovebird said are very disadvantageous to be said as mafia.

Oh Lovebird is still loltown

[Sir Bastion]

VOTE: Iconneum

Mixed up the replacements

oh dear

for the first time I actually have to ask why?

[Sir Bastion]

Just flagging this here if it turns out Not_Mafia has firmly got the wool over my eyes and he and his quiet scum partner are on their way to victory leading me on. My current stance is I dont want to lynch Not_Mafia but I genuinely have this constant fear that I'm wrong, primarily fuelled because a point he made on day 1 in response to me doesn't exactly line up with what he's told me in the neighbourhood but it such a how you play the game affects how you read it topic that I don't want to jump the gun and hurt town over it but I also want this doubt recorded in the game publicly and not have it vanish into the neighbourhood.

NM can choose to confirm or not that I forewarned him of this concern and what I was going to bring up


back to your regularly scheduled scumhunt

Lovebird I think you are quite inconsistent and I'm not sure how I should read it.

Going from when I pushed you earlier to now you have bounced all over the fecking place in terms of who is scum, what they might have been doing, who was bussing, were they both bussing but then maybe they werent bussing. Gif stopped playing after bambi lynch to GIF too open to bambi to be scum or maybe it isnt. I dont know


You've said a lot of different things

do you know what you've said nothing about

not_mafia

I mean even when you vote him

VOTE: Not Mafia

you didnt say a lot

I assumed it was because you think he bussed bambi, but now you've been all over the shop talking about all the other potential bussers or not and so on its hard to follow your train of thought.

So what's your case on NM?

[Sir Bastion]

Hot take: what if it's Bastion and NM

if you want to push this idea do it in the right order please

[Sir Bastion]

btw tripod you've gone quiet

how do you feel about:

lovebird?

lynching the gif slot?

[Sir Bastion]

My thoughts on 225 is sort of the same as they were on day 1.

Like 309:

How can I convince you I'm town when your already deadset on me being scum? Pushing more for you is apparently bussing because your trying to get me hung and WIFOM everyone to never push you after today.

Know what? Now that's just showing your true colors. You'll get me to L-1 and call my role bullshit even if my role has a lot of power for town. Someone here already asked for your role. I will be looking for scum elsewhere when you give me your role and fricken give straight answers too.

And currently I'm leaning scum on Not_Mafia for bailing out right now while Tripod takes center stage

to not have any connections to him. And if Tripod is scum then I'm personally betting on Reck being town.

It feels like she's trying to throw other players on the same wagon as her under the bus to get pressure off herself.

So I'd be more inclined to believe all 3 are town (1 is confirmed town) because frankly and it may be my mistake but bambi felt like really really bad scum from very early day 1.


Which is why I'm still very much considering a possible UT scum position because honestly if my partner was playing that badly from early day 1 I would have bussed them and UT does try to overcook the whole buddy angle very early on

@UT please refrain from NKing me so i can get a chance to read you, thanks

you help me bus my buddy Bambi and I'll bring you all the way to LYLO

both UT and bambi end up saying the word buss to each other, UT in post 294 as a joke but bambi in 309 does sound irritated more then anything "Pushing more for you is apparently bussing because your trying to get me hung and WIFOM everyone to never push you after today."

There's something that keeps bringing me back to this sentence as it just reads different to how bambi talked about Ari, PP or NM or even how bambi talked to me

Oh Yhwach this game fricken takes off when I fricken sleep. You guys really do all that during the middle of the night. CST sucks when it comes to that.

@Bastion: I read it and I didn't feel the need to respond to 451 at the time. It's a teaching experience for me at the moment...

@Kokichi: Well if you really need it, https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... dragonKing.
My record kinda damns me so far though. If you want an accurate statement of my scumgame, you can click a link to Open 711 found there, though I replaced in mid-day 1.

When UT pushed bambi there is this sense of frustration

When NM pushed her it's aggressive meta

When I push her its a learning experience buddy buddy buddy.

the UT one just feels like the odd one out to me. Someone who doesnt understand why they are under this sort of pressure.


But there's promised info from Penguin about UT on the horizon so I'm not particularly fussed about driving this one home, also I have a suspicion about a game mechanic that UT might end up confirming tomorrow related to bits of info I've picked up both from the flips we've had and what I know about NM.

So I want UT to live today at least.


I rather lynch Lovebird, Profi or Kokichi today, probably in that order.

[Sir Bastion]

I am still not completely letting go of my scum ut/kokicho read. its still there.

bastion I am here if you wanna talk things through. you have moved into my solid town category.

I can't believe you think me and UT can be a team.

well you both did hop off a wagon on bambi when it was in full swing for the exact same reason (or at least you claimed it was the reason you unvoted)

unvote

I want the hammer

I want it so bad I can taste it

This was when Bambi was on L-2


When we put Bambi up a second time you unvoted and when pressed on it claimed:

Why is Bambi special that you pull him back from the cliff edge before he even shows up?

I just want to be the one to hammer. Nee-heehee~

This was when Bambi was on L-1 I think.

personally I dont think your scum together, it makes more sense the way you both carry on that either scum version of you has a quieter partner

but being incredulous over the suggestion is a bit much and makes me want to lynch both of you.

[Sir Bastion]

So you just gonna ignore my read?

are you gonna let him ignore it?

[Sir Bastion]

this dose of unnecessary vitriol brought to you by: getting rejected from five jobs this week

I have to convince my job to keep me by the end of next week

[Sir Bastion]

Where did Alisae start reading mulch as town?

[Sir Bastion]

I never did get my tit for tat

it was a poe list from d1, I can't develop reads when over half the game is lurking. while you cld be power wolfing I don't want to lynch an active poster.

I get reck, ut, lovebird are typical respond posters but there is nothing for them to respond to. pp and gif have hardly posted. ari did but eh, I still have no idea where his head is at and it makes me nervous cos I don't want him to hero shoot 1 of my town reads. koko, you and I want the game to move forward and I think all of us are getting antsy. nm is nm and I am cool with the amount he has posted as well as what he has posted. I think. there really might be an out of reason for fissure, so I am cool with giving him space. I reeeeeeeeeally don't like the push on reck tho.

stalled games are what induce town apathy which helps scum. I am not sure how to move forward altho I am wanting to lynch a lurker at this point. ari posted, I kinda believe the claim so lets do pp.

vote penguin power

reck is confirmed town.

I copped him last night as a weak cop

. I really don't think it hurts to out that at this point. at least y'all will leave him alone and look elsewhere.

[Sir Bastion]

do you need to hammer Kokichi?

[Sir Bastion]

UT whats your position on the majiffy/mulch/fissure/Profii slot?

You were part of the wagon that almost lynched majiffy day 1

if I post the case from day 1 again would that tempt your return?

[Sir Bastion]

will, tell me why I should vote for Majiffy right now and I would appreciate it in the form of a gif

[Sir Bastion]

it's D3 and we have flips to work with, I'd like a liiiiiiiiittle bit more

well I wasnt offering that, I just offered the case that convinced you on day 1.

I'm voting lovebird remember?

The active lurker who has again returned to his perch far above us and has snuggled in beside that other flightless bird hiding up there.

[Sir Bastion]

How am I an "active lurker"?

you are here but you contribute nothing.

the fact that when I mention your name you appear instantly but do pretty much nothing the rest of the time flipping and flopping randomly is in my opinion a text book active lurker.

Here enough that other lurkers *cough* Ari *cough* GIF *cough* take the brunt of town suspicion over you but not here enough that people expect actual work from you. I mean I asked why you were voting Not_Mafia back here and *flutter* *flutter* *flutter* off you flew back up to your perch.

[Sir Bastion]

what's going on in your neighborhood?

not a lot at the moment,

the topic I flagged in the same post I linked above was discussed a small bit today and we discussed our thoughts during night 1 on who we think might be scum (well I did, he gave his usual short responses)

[Sir Bastion]

night 2 sorry, night 1 I spent deciding who to pair up with

[Sir Bastion]

How am I an "active lurker"?

you are here but you contribute nothing.

the fact that when I mention your name you appear instantly but do pretty much nothing the rest of the time flipping and flopping randomly is in my opinion a text book active lurker.

Here enough that other lurkers *cough* Ari *cough* GIF *cough* take the brunt of town suspicion over you but not here enough that people expect actual work from you. I mean I asked why you were voting Not_Mafia back here and *flutter* *flutter* *flutter* off you flew back up to your perch.

The timing was coincidental. It's is really never that meaningful, unless meta or something.

I feel like I've been saying things that are meaningful. Just that nobody seems to be talking to me, I guess.

wooooooooosh!

you are voting not_mafia

posts today about not_mafia:

VOTE: Not Mafia

Huh. Forgot.

VOTE: Not Mafia

out of roughly 73 posts.

71 posts not leading to any case or pushing anyone or developing anything. Your position before those 71 posts and after those 71 posts appear to be unchanged:

Don't feel confident in any reads rn actually.

thats over half the amount of posts i've made in the game as a whole.

Do you know what I have?

A fairly good idea who I want to lynch and not lynch today.

I dont want to lynch in the UT, Mollie and Not Mafia crowd because 2 can be potentially cleared by tomorrow and the 3rd is townier then town. Could any of them be scum? yes but the circumstances today makr it more valuable to keep them in game for one more day. Excluding me myself that leaves 5 people:

@LoveBird

has provided us no reason to keep them, but they've had minimal interaction, they are a good flip if people think they are scum (which I do) but not an informative one.

@Kokichi

has been all over the place and their flip would be incredibly informative. But I asked the mod to clarify something in the neighbourhood (NM can confirm if he wants) and I see only one route that gives value to keeping them in the game, which they are happy to hear

@Penguin Power

has been very scummy but he's claimed so regardless of how scummy he is there is no point killing him today. If he's scum it's better to kill his partner today so that whatever game he's playing at with his fruit vendor claim he'll be isolated going forward.

@GIF/Radiant/Ico

has been a shit slot but GIF was actually consistent if people read him in thread and not in ISO, the reason they townread Bambi was the same reason they townread Majiffy. Both players they townread after they threw a massive strop. GIF reads emotional outburst as town clearly. Radiant and Ico havnt done anything out of the ordinary, I find it funny that penguin is crying about radiant voting them when they actually settled on voting me and I dont care that they did.

But the most important thing is this slot has heavily breadcrumbed a role and frankly I'd argue it's better for them right now to confirm it and risk the nightkill tonight to clear themselves tomorrow then to keep playing mystery box and end up getting the noose and the power is lost along with another player the following night.

@Majiffy/mulch/fissue/Profii

slot has also been a shit slot with majiffy (hence why he was almost lynched, note Bambi went nowhere near that wagon) Mulch worked hard to right the ship but he was throwing shade all over the place and never following up which comes across scummy in particular I found he kept calling me trash most of day 1 and 2 but never committed to pushing me. He was happy to ride along side UT and Mollie.

It would also be an informative slot because his day 1 wagon was primarily town lead (reck, Alisae) so if profii flips town it does give us grounds to revivist UT and Mollie (if GIF does succeed in clearing themselves) and if they flip scum it confirms our town block.

Also mulch has not been quiet and a lot of players today have come out on specific sides on his lynch. Some have insisted we look elsewhere others have said they look scummy but havnt acted etc etc.


So take it all away

We have:

4 players that shouldnt be lynched today

Myself
Mollie
UT
NM

3 players that have potential info coming the following day giving them value for one more night

kokichi (in only one exact scenario)
ICO
Penguin Power


leaving 2 players that are worth lynching today;

Lovebird

Profii


one of which is far more informative


so

VOTE: Profii

[Sir Bastion]

EDIT:

Forgot to add:

"3 players that have potential info coming the following day giving them value for one more night

kokichi (in only one exact scenario)
ICO (if they confirm their role)
Penguin Power (to see if his fruit claim has any results)"

[Sir Bastion]

I can see what you mean on Lovebird being scum. I won't tunnel on Penguin if profii flips scum

in case you are not sure what I'm talking about in relation to you:

Dunno if I can muster enough motivation to do a lot here tbh but we'll see in few days
If I do get lynched don't expect a claim from me though.
It's more beneficial to town that I get lynched without me claiming.

Hi I'm town . I will read the game at some point if I don't get quicklynched but I mostly think I get lynched regardless of what I do from here so.
I understand GIF's motivations for not claiming our ability and I stand by them.

[Sir Bastion]

I gotta be fair here, my ability was used up before I joined. There is obviously no relevant information to advance this game, so I didn't claim it.
Want me to claim?

oh dear


GIF breadcrumbed something very different so I'm very surprise at this news.

because of these posts:

Speaking of the One-shot thing... I don't know if it's wise to ask, but are we All using our abilities night one or is that a stupid idea?

Impossible.

VOTE: Majiffy

Doublevote: Majiffy

Hmm I was expecting a one-shot mayor, hence the refusal to claim.

[Sir Bastion]

Ughhhhhh

Sorry I'm having trouble swallowing that based on GIF's posting, unless he was intentionally trying to draw the shot.

But this reads like someone selling his role as useful to have and not a role that it's best use is to support a town player

And by game-mechanic I mean really giving my role to someone cos I think it benefits more if someone else had it.
I don't want to hold up anything on that though so yeah.

The reload role does explain why GIF said using his one shot night 1 was impossible

He was town reading reck, but mollie and me had both confirmed using our shots n1 and he picked reck?

That seems very suspect.

I have other issues I need to consider on this topic and I have to consider how I'lll approach them.

[Sir Bastion]

regardless you are back on the board for today for potential lynch.

So Ico, Lovebird and Profii are the 3 I'd consider lynching today.

I am also required to flag that this reload claim ties directly to the issue of concern between myself and Not_Mafia in the neighbourhood so if you flip town would put him back on point to assure town of his good and proper intentions. Which makes you quite the informative flip too.

[Sir Bastion]

I mean why pick reck to reload when both Mollie and myself had confirmed a neighbouriser role and a weak cop.

both roles could have been very strong with a reload, both had been outted.

yes Mollie was at risk of being nightkilled but he could have put me on the spot with a reload, if me and NM were lying about the neighbourhood he would have forced me to add another player to the neighbourhood.

[Sir Bastion]

What does a scum!me have to gain with claiming what I did? Why would be so willing to claim what I claimed, if I could just wait with that until it was absolutely necesarry?
A town!me has everything to gain by coming clean now, as it will only put me in a more difficult position later in the game by not claiming.

Yes, WIFOM, but that doesn't make it any less true.

sum!you and town!you have no choice in this matter.

The only way you were going to get pass today is if you cleared the air over the mystery box GIF planted and Radiant backed up, so if sum!you refused he would have been lynched and under as much scrutiny.

You get no brownie points for clearing the air, it was expected.

The problem you have is how your predecessors painted the role.

Especially Radiant who backed Gif's claim on the beginning of day 3 after the shot had been consumed and known to now be useless, he should have cleared the air then if he wanted townie points, god knows if he did day 3 would be going very differently right now. But he doubled down on mystery box which = self preservation = scum.

[Sir Bastion]

hot take: what if profi and ico were a team and ico was in scumchat saying, "I can't defend you until you do something buddy!" and then profi did.

sort of

can we lynch profi now

I'd actually buy that because of this:

/replace

followed straight away by

Oh okay. Nah I'll get that one.

replace me

I feel like we missed a conversation here

one that occured in a different room

away from prying eyes

[Sir Bastion]

Would I hard-bus profii like I have done, as scum?

dont know, i've never played with you I think.

but if your predecessor and profii's predecessor has a falling out, I dont know what the two of you are doing today.


but the who is who's partner is not for today, we must lynch someone and we cant lynch 2.

we'll deal with who is who's partner after we find confirmed scum.


I dont get why you are so on edge over the thought.

Come tomorrow both PP and Kokichi will be back in contention as possible scum and perhaps even NM and you might not have to worry about me pushing these thoughts tomorrow.

[Sir Bastion]

long ass commercial break

[Sir Bastion]

1 scum left.

everybody's back on the block in order:

Lovebird for being useless

Iconeum for being a scummy as hell slot that overplayed their slot's ability

PenguinPower because his promised results have not materialised

Kokichi for being a somewhat scummy slot

Not_Mafia needs to back up his neighbourhood claims

Untrod Tripod mostly because mollie died instead of me there's a lot of wifom around that.


BUT

most direct approach says:

If tripod is scum then penguin isnt so penguin's claimed fruit assassination should have came to fruition (hehe)

It appears it hasnt (unless he's going to claim otherwise)

So tripod is only scum if penguin is also scum, which I am positive is not the case.

So tripod = town unless penguin is going to correct me or admit he doesnt know how his power works


In terms of re-reading Majiffy/Mulch/Profii

this sticks out for me:

And to go into some more depth into this stuff

Kokichi is deep into their town meta, afaict they only use that gif where they are baiting people as town. Also their classic bad!town reactions are classic town kokichi.

Airstophanes

is purely on meta reasons, also think that regardless of Alisae's alignment I'm trusting their read on them I saw early in the day
Not_mafia is policy null. Honestly I can't help myself from reading him in games but I keep fluctuating from town to scum anyway. I think their effort is probably scummy? but their posts ("posts" I can actually follow and I've noticied I can do that in some of his town games
Penguin actually now that I'm thinking about it their strong start then dip out was what they did as scum so I'm not townreading them anymore
Lovebird is I think has good reactions. I don't really think they've been exceptionally towny but I think? I know how to read them. plus I really liked their scumread on alisae. Super mindmeld

Molly

is just obvious town

====

Guyinfreezer I don't remember any of their posts

Bambietta

han't dont anything scummy or towny
Untrod yeah my gut says scum here but idrk will probably let others decide cause more experience. Tbh I think they are probably scum but I don't really have a way to say my case about them basically just gut and opportunism on me. Also I feel like their jokes are scummy. You might think it's ridculous but I think they are, just the way in which they are engaging with people.

Bastion

is trash in a way that might be too trash to be scum. I dunno with this kid it's possible he's just scum


z

Is mulch the sort of player to do his 2 scum partners back to back on a list intentionally or more likely to put 1 in each pile?


VOTE: lovebird

[Sir Bastion]

ok the mod has put me back at square 1 with not_mafia

[Sir Bastion]

PenguinPower because his promised results have not materialised

How do you know they haven't? I didn't even post yet.

So tripod = town unless penguin is going to correct me or admit he doesnt know how his power works

I'm ok with assuming UT is town, but I know how my power works, and it's not definitive.

UT, you still want kokichi? Sir Bastion started today yucky, but I want kokichi or loverbird.

I'm assuming they havnt because you said the mod would confirm

If the mod confirms that anyone smells like fruit, they are 100% conf!scum.

you never specified beyond this, you didnt even specify if the mod was confirming to you someone smelled like fruit or if they were going to put in the start of day flavour "Ewww Tripod smells of rotten fruit, whats up with that?" confirming it the whole town.

ok the mod has put me back at square 1 with not_mafia

What does this mean?

Not_Mafia made a claim in the neighbourhood, it might have been confirmed at start of day today, it wasnt, I checked with mod and they stated the lack of it being confirmed is NAI.

[Sir Bastion]

Can confirm he did

[Sir Bastion]

he claimed he did to me in neighbourhood he used his ability on mollie

Hence my asking the mod to confirm if the results of his action would show up on her flip

mod said it wouldnt

hence why he's back to square 1 with me

[Sir Bastion]

Cards on the table

He claimed one shot inventor can give Voyeur, Bodyguard and Shot Detector

With the ability to reload his power if he hammers but the ability of the hammered is lost (hence why I raised doubt about it yesterday)

I've been pestering him to use it since yesterday to confirm himself to me but he didnt trust me etc etc.

I do think its very convenient for the player he picked to be the one that got killed. But the easier route would have been just to kill me.

Unless N_M is one of those player's that thrives on wine?

[Sir Bastion]

He did ask me who I thought the NK was going to be last night and this was my response:

it has to be me, mollie or UT

Me cause everyone is townreading me

Mollie for same reason

UT because if its kokichi he'll be cornered by UT's tracking now

long shot is they go for you because I let it out that you have a reload ability.

So I partly understand him picking mollie over me, but even though he's already chocked up with powers I would have thought UT would have been a safer bet since N_M was naming you most likely to be town.

[Sir Bastion]

I want to hear from UT because I am honestly expecting for one more level of crazy to this morning.

[Sir Bastion]

I can tell you what's going to happen. He is going to have me as a no visit, and still want to lynch me anyway.

Just so its on paper before he comes

you had 1 shot watcher

not delayed watcher or permanent watcher

1 shot watcher on the night you used it.

[Sir Bastion]

or was it tracker?

same thought process though

confirm it was activated and used tonight please

[Sir Bastion]

true that is a misread by me.

[Sir Bastion]

Why people are even still scumreading me anyways? Think I don't look like mulch's partner at all, seems just thoughtless.

Why should people townread you?

None of the flipped scum players have every pushed you or voted you.

[Sir Bastion]

No.

If he tracked nm, how could he also have killed mollie? Kokichi should be conf I think.

Read Bambi's flip and think

[Sir Bastion]

confirm every detail exactly please

1. You used the watcher ability last night

2. Who you targeted

3. results

Because if what you say is true, then yes N_M is very likely scum and I will back his lynch but if you are wrong or there is a ninja ability with scum we are lynching you tomorrow regardless and if you were both town we will deal with the ninja the day after.

but we want in full detail so things dont change later when other players chime in.

[Sir Bastion]

Given the scum team has lost two in 3 days, and the presence of investigative roles made known day 2...I'm not sure scum would have held off until the Night 3 kill to use a 1-shot ninja ability.

I mean, taking nm to mylo/lylo as town or scum is bad...this is pretty damning fmpov.

I agree. But, it could just be their passive modifier.

it may be weird but thats why I am putting it out there. You are seeding the whole ninja passive way too much for my own liking.

I'm up for lynching NM but if he flips town I am not going into mylo with you. Sorry it's just common sense

P-EDIT: I'll wait for UT. But I doubt Ico has anything of value to add.

[Sir Bastion]

If it turns out to be not_mafia I have to say that was some stellar distancing from bambi.

It oddly ended up getting them lynched because they took it too far that they looked scummy for reacting so badly to his vote but it did make me think they were not partners.


I'd throw out the following exchange pre day 3 in the neighbour aswell as an eyebrow raiser


we were discussing thoughts on day 2 and I said my suspects

"I still believe you are town, so If I'm wrong I'll regret it when the time comes, but for now your town.

That means fissure, kokkichi and tripod.

I dont see scum with 1 man down risking so much to try and grab a vig power, even if they could double kill tonight, tripod would be under so much pressure day 3 that any advantage would evaporate. And I sort of get his frustration with lurkers like ari, his posting was shit when he got back. Also his day 1 vote on bambi felt more genuine.

So fissure or kokkichi. Meta leans to fissure being more likely scum imo. Kokkichi feels like their trying.

I think Fissure and Penguin are scum. GiF is at least with his absence claiming some potential if he doesnt claim. This is of course assuming we are dealing with 3 scum.

Mulch/Fissure is rubbing me off wrong when I'm re-reading day 1, in particular he has a habit of attacking people's posts but not pushing them, so it looks like he's scumhunting but he's not really.

And penguin is coming across as such an active lurker, prod dodging sob."

N_M responded agreeing on a penguin fissure scumteam

I asked who would he prefer to push first Penguin or Fissure

"do you agree pushing fissure first tomorrow

or pushing penguin?"

and he responded he preferred penguin but whatever.

considering the flip and Kokkichi's claim that looks very suspect.


P-edit: Ico that had nothing to do with you as a player. Today is entirely dictated by the few night actions that have been claimed to have happened last night. You already admitted yesterday to using your one shot. The only reason not to lynch N_M today is if UT comes in and says he used his one shot roleblocker ability to block kokichi.

Cause then we will have a confusing mess of a game to try and unravel.

If he did nothing involving kokichi, NM or mollie then what Kokichi is reporting is for now the most accurate details we have.

[Sir Bastion]

whats been claimed:

Kokkichi watched Mollie last night, claimed to have activated and used the power last night (so not delayed from the prior nights)

N_M claimed to have given Mollie voyeur ability last night from his one shot inventor ability

Mollie died


Kokichi says only N_M showed up in her watch.

Both UT and LovePenguin are the only other 2 players with unused abilities, penguin has hinted heavily she still hasnt used hers and UT *could* have 2 powers he had a choice of using last night so we are waiting to see if he adds any confusion to the mess.


If he didnt that leaves us with 3 options


1. N_M is scum and Kokichi has caught GG WP

2. N_M is town and Kokichi is scum taking advantage of some ability that let's her know that N_M also visited mollie so she has framed him. Unlikely but considering every scum player has had a passive not impossible.

3. N_M and Kokichi are both town and scum had a ninja passive that allowed them to act unseen to kokichi.

1 is the most straight forward and is what we should act on.

2 and 3 both have *issues* and can be dealt with when we come to tomorrow.

[Sir Bastion]

spoke wrong there:

"Both UT and Lovebird are the only other 2 players with unused abilities, bird has hinted heavily she still hasnt used hers and UT *could* have 2 powers he had a choice of using last night so we are waiting to see if he adds any confusion to the mess."

[Sir Bastion]

I see koki has claimed watcher. Hadn't read the thread yet. I still might want to do it but but... I don't really see why we wouldn't either today or tomorrow.

UNVOTE: koki

Pedit did I not say I'dget results from night 2 not night 3?

Yes there was some confusion over that and no one would answer me when I kept asking for clarity.


So none of what UT has added changes the terms of the encounter Koki is claiming.

so

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[Sir Bastion]

L-1 hammer away whoever is around.

Its not like there is a risk of scum gaining a power if we turn out to be wrong as N_M has claimed to have used his one-shot.

[Sir Bastion]

Yeah the power was overpowered, but frankly both me and PP dying should have set off a lot more alarm bells.

Especially penguin, there was nothing for ICO to gain from lynching him over koki or UT, me I could understand it might be someone trying to mislead, but penguins was a red flag.


I'm disappointed ICO didnt come out swinging more on the last day.

Also I am screaming at whoever it was who quoted Profii's reads list and didnt notice that the one player completely absent from it was Kokichi.

[Sir Bastion]

personal thoughts


Town was really good, I mean on the first day alone we had put 2 of the 3 scum players up to l-1. Forcing one to quit out and lynching the 2nd.

day 2 was a massive brainfart of a day

but everyone was back on form on day 3.

If the passive hadnt come into play I'd imagine we would have won on day 4 (koki would have had no claim and UT was tracking him)

Koki did play a really good scumgame, he was very much prepared to cover for his mistakes such as his blatantly scummy unvote of bambi on day 1. He never backed down to either UT or Mollie when they both went after him and he did a good job of twisting his earlier actions to look more town like.

I really wanted to call out your claim of suspecting bambi over the watcher claim as complete horseshit when you first said it.

But then that perfect storm of me pushing N_M to use his power in the neighbourhood combined with koki not only knowing about it but going to the same place gave him the route to win.

And you could argue if a player had to rely on a mechanic to win then that mechanic is overpowered. But he played it brilliantly and got the win from that day alone.

Other players *ehh*

I think bambi needs to seriously work on their scumgame, mulch did a bit better but there were tells leaking out all over that even if they didnt replace out they were a likely push for day 3, especially after penguin's claim.

Town, Mollie did fine, I think UT did well too up until the end, N_M I thought did well at keeping me at arms length in the neighbourhood but not alienating me enough to out him fully and push him, which all felt very town. It took a convincing fake claim to have me turn on him.

Penguin you were a bit weak initially but once you claimed you got a lot stronger, I imagine you are normally a very strong vanilla town player right?

Ico you might have been better if you hadnt replaced the worse slot in the game, but aggression is needed!

Lovebird already knows my feelings so I'm not revisiting

Alisae and reckoner were both solid town on my end, I never felt the need to push them

While Ari's disappearance and fake claim on day 2 may be the only genuine town mishap not associated with a questionable passive power.

Also I give permission to release the Neighbourhood thread. I dont know if N_M needs to too?

[Sir Bastion]

we were expecting you to say that in the dead thread...

[Sir Bastion]

oh my god I'm so salty about that

I was gonna shoot Koki

I was so excited

depressing part. If it wasnt for that damn passive you would have caught Koki.

[Sir Bastion]

Oh that mafia thread is fucking gold.

reading it the first page just seems to be a freefall of panic:

Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck they're turning on Majiffy now. Do we just go along with it?

I'm actually more annoyed we lost now

[Sir Bastion]

there is a reason why koki is being quiet

[Sir Bastion]

I had a great time this game, first time replacing in on this forum. Glad I caught scum when I came in, but I'm still surprised how little townpoints I got for lynching profii.

Sure, I could have gone stronger last day but what was I to do? I had both Kokichi and UT as town on the previous day, I wasn't even sure it was Kokichi until I voted and saw his reactions.
How was I supposed to counter his 'mechanically cleared town'? This is an honest question, actually. If anyone cares to answer, that would be great.

GG all

check his claims!

Sadly its a lot of work and a bit dull but you should have gone back and check all the shit he was claiming.

irst of all.

1. There is no way I could have made the kill. Seeing as I had my action the night with 1 scum left. One mafia has the ability that makes them do both at the same time. Another wouldn't have the same.

1a. Also another mafia has a passing ability which would make it very unlikely that I as scum would be able to get an ability that allows me to have either ability.

2. I used my watcher shot and its confirmed by you, bastion and Not-Mafia that I used it that night. Mafia had a permanent Watcher/Tracker role. Which would make it very unlikely that they would be given a 1 shot watcher as well. I was close to counter claiming Bambi, as his role with mine made no sense. Because his would basically just be a beefed up version of my role.

1/2. The only proof he had done the watcher action the night he claimed to watch on that night was him himself claiming he did that action. There was nothing proving he was doing. Yes town couldnt have possibly guessed that scum had such a power to see all actions but they could have deduced that koki claiming they did the night action that night was not true. He could have easily had something on NM from any of the prior nights when he had partners.

1a. His claim of close to counter claiming bambi is horseshit, if anyone had bothered to revisit day 1 and reread the events around bambi's lynch you would have seen there was no truth to it. The Bambi wagon was close to falling apart when everyone got into an argument over who should hammer and some players were clearly pushing for us to lynch elsewhere, it took me prodding Mollie to get things back on track and that was pages and pages after Bambi had made his claim.

The only claim he had a leg to stand on was that it was strange for scum to have 2 watchers, but the truth is he didnt need to be a watcher, nothing in his claim confirmed he was a watcher. There are other roles, we knew passives existed

3. If you look at the way Mulch/Fissure tried to discredit me at every corner and kept saying I should be liability lynched. it's pretty clear we are not teamed. But, I guess that's just seeing it from my view.

Again thats bs that could have been checked by doing an ISO of the mulch/fissure/profii along side koki slot. It's particular frustrating because you quoted Profii's reads list earlier in your posts and he blatantly kept Koki off his reads list. He talked about every other player still alive that day except for Koki in his reads list. That's a massive red flag.

The difference between koki's claims and UT's claims was that UT was backed up by a town player (penguin confirmed he gave him fruit) and the flip gave a 100% confirmed process for the process of the fruit showing that UT was without question town.


Koki very skillfully (regardless of what Mulch thinks) convinced town players not to look closely at his claims and that is how he won. He played the mechanics in his favour.

[Sir Bastion]

The only proof he had done the watcher action the night he claimed to watch on that night was him himself claiming he did that action. There was nothing proving he was doing.

Yeah. But, that's impossible to guess as Ico. Since you confirmed it. Not_Mafia confirmed it. And UT had me visiting Mollie that night as well. So no reason to think otherwise

How could any of us confirm it? We couldn't confirm anything. None of us had the power to confirm anything.

We just had you confirm your claim. I'm sorry that's two very different things. We had you claim because we were waiting on a report from ut on your movement. It didn't confirm anything.

Like I said your claims could have been dismantled but it needed town to go back and do the legwork. It would have been long and boring and judging by how you reacted to me on day 2 when I started doing it I would assume you would have fought it every step of the way.


But if you want to win that's what you need to do.