Mini 1993 - Earthbound Mafia: Giygas' Curse - GAME OVER

[Kthxbye]

alright y'all, ill catch up this weekend. Just buried my mother this week. Sorry for the delay

[Kthxbye]

Sorry for not getting to this over the weekend. Well catch up asap.

[Kthxbye]

Sorry all for the delay. Having a parent pass away, having said parent not be married and being an only child really sucks.

I was going to do a full read of this, but after seeing the gladiator claim and hating D1s to begin with, I'm going to focus down on the 2 lychables for today (assuming it's a real role/action).
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Though this is an easy choice to lynch MD over me. There's a divided playerlist over his slot, while I'm still overall townread. Lynching MD gives a much better start of D2 in any case.

I don't see how it's the easy choice to lynch MD over you. A quick ISO has me reading him town and you scummy.

Town or Scum, I can take guesses as to why you are procrastinating on claiming, but I want to hear the reason from your mouth.
_____________________________________________________________

MD: Can I get an updated and condensed list of your town/scum reads please? Would you lynch you over Icon?

[Kthxbye]

Ah, I see I missed the confirmation of the role and action.

@MOD: If we choose to NL, will the claimed 1-shot be spent or will he be able to gladiate tomorrow (should he live through the night)? I can guess, but just to confirm and be clear.

For now though:

VOTE: NO LYNCH

[Kthxbye]

VOTE: Icon

I haven't seen you even reference Icon this game so why would you vote him without explanation over a NL

[Kthxbye]

Fair enough dino

[Kthxbye]

Without elaborating on speculation on reads or night actions, I would like everyone to answer:

Who is more predictable when it comes to their protection night action?
A. Mathdino
B. mastina

Whoever is more predictable should be the one that protects Iconeum. The other does their best elsewhere.

neither. I don't know either of you or your play styles.

[Kthxbye]

This is such a frustrating game. Effort is NAI, yet it's apparent that's what I'm being nailed on, and I wouldn't have signed up for this game if I knew that would be an issue (it hasn't in my previous mini's).

When I don't have a lot of time for a game, gut is going to play a larger role than other times.

I am Captain Strong, town 1-shot gladiator.

Gladiate: MathDino and Iconeum

Dino because I don't think town!Dino gives into peer pressure and builds this bad case. Iconeum because I think he is scum that got wind of people townreading him and decided he could ride on that, which shows his clear change in play from the early part of the day to the later part.

I have been going over this post in particular and I'm 99.9% sure this is a scum post with the .1% uncertainty being there only because people aren't machines and are flawed.

Here's my thoughts looking at this role/power as if I had it in this game:

If I'm town 1-shot gladiator and under pressure (not L-1 pressure mind you), I might want to avoid my mislynch. This is understandable. The HUGE problem with how this went down however, is in the same post he claims gladiator, he shoots his load WITHOUT ANY DISCUSSION. D1 is the day when there is the best town to scum ratio. If I have a provable power like this and feel I need to claim over getting mislynched and not being able to use it, I claim and ASK THE THREAD for a pair that puts us in the best position for information and/or to hit scum. I DO NOT claim and blow my load in the same post. He wasn't in danger of a next post vote to lynch and even if he was, if someone hammered after this claim without proper discussion, they would have just outed themselves as scum anyway. There is absolutely ZERO reason to claim and use the power in the same post AS TOWN.

As Scum however, I'm going to totally do exactly what he did and try and pass it off as town as best as I can. I would solidify a town mislynch over a scum lynch on D1 by doing this. I would also put myself in the best chance to dig myself out of the hole that was dug (whether the hole was my fault or not). As scum, the above post is the ONLY move. If left to the masses, and the masses of town get lucky and pit a scumbuddy against a town or worse, a scum buddy against another scum buddy....yeah...not a great way to start.

It is for this reason I lean that our 2 options for lynch today are both town. It is also for this reason, that acryon should be vig'ed tonight or solidified as tomorrow's lynch. His flip (especially if in fact flips scum), gives SOOOO much information. Not only does it damn near confirm dino and Icon as town, we can also look back and see who was the next in line in acryon somehow got out of the D1 wagon.

tldr; No Lynch is the way to go and acryon should be vig'ed N1 or lynched D2. Day vig'ed D1 would be best if the option is available somewhere.

Side Note: This isn't the even the standard gladiator role mind you. Gladiator is a powerful town role as it pits the town player against 1 other. THIS is even MORE powerful than that as the player gets a get out of lynch free card. It just makes more sense as a scum modified role than a town modified role when balance is concerned. My 2 cents.

[Kthxbye]

Let us ask then.

@MOD

can we go to a no lynch today?

I'll allow it if majority votes for it. However since I am doing this if no votes are cast for either player gladiated and no majority is achieved for no lynch then a coin shall be flipped to determine which is lynched.

No lynch goes to a coin flip I think.

@mod: am I correct in this statement? Or is the no lynch coin flip only if we time out D1?

@mod: can you please answer this?

...Dude.....come on man.....learn to English

1: No Lynch is allowed if voted upon to do so
2: If we do not majority vote (just like a majority vote for a lynch) to No Lynch AND the 2 gladiated players have NO VOTES, then the coin flip happens
3: This would mean (from simple deduction) that if we don't majority vote a No Lynch, the player in the gladiator arena with the most votes is lynched

[Kthxbye]

To add to my 664:

Keep in mind that acron likely didn't know voting to No Lynch would be possible. This was something asked and answered in thread. IF he didn't clarify this with the mod in a PM, then the move makes even MORE sense as scum motivated over town motivated. If he was town AND in fact DID clarify with the MOD via PM, then he would have added that information when explaining his role. If he was scum and clarified, he would certainly omit the information. So, either way, SCUM SCUM SCUMITY SCUM.

[Kthxbye]

(That having been said: kthx's 942 is much, much, much better. It's not outside of his scumrange unfortunately but it's enough to give hesitance to the scumread there if nothing else.)

time out. who is this? how do you know me? I've been out the game for over a year...

[Kthxbye]

consider this post my vote for acryon. I'm not voting officially till I have a VC cuz I'm lazy and cuz math is hard and even though acryon is certainly today's lynch, there's no reason to cut off conversation for it this quickly.

If this lynch doesn't happen today, them I'm done. Barring an investigation claim, if we don't lynch this scum today, might as well just give up due to incompetence.

I'm never voting acryon

And why the hell is that? Due to incompetence?

@Carrot: totally missed that. Howdy again Mast. Also, now you read MY tag line and put me at the top of your town reads. kthxbye

[Kthxbye]

@MOD: Who has been pinged for inactivity and how long till they will be replaced? *coughLilUziVertcough*

[Kthxbye]

@MOD: Who has been pinged for inactivity and how long till they will be replaced? *coughLilUziVertcough*

Lil Uzi Vert already replaced out; Almost50 replaced him.

Yeah, just saw the page one update. Sorry I missed that.

[Kthxbye]

consider this post my vote for acryon. I'm not voting officially till I have a VC cuz I'm lazy and cuz math is hard and even though acryon is certainly today's lynch, there's no reason to cut off conversation for it this quickly.

If this lynch doesn't happen today, them I'm done. Barring an investigation claim, if we don't lynch this scum today, might as well just give up due to incompetence.

I'm never voting acryon

And why the hell is that? Due to incompetence?

@Carrot: totally missed that. Howdy again Mast. Also, now you read MY tag line and put me at the top of your town reads. kthxbye

Please lynch this when acryon flips town

Way to completely avoid answering the direct question and following up with more incompetence.... /golfclap

[Kthxbye]

Question, did anyone NOT take an action last night?

Also, why the hell is everyone and their brother claiming on day freaking 2.

[Kthxbye]

incorrect, we have no conftown. Explain why you think those 3 are "confirmed".

[Kthxbye]

just want it explained how they are "cleared".

Why don't you try doing....ANYTHING...productive instead of snide fucking jabs all game?

[Kthxbye]

yeah, if I play another game with you, it'll be too soon.

[Kthxbye]

Here's the deal. like you said, you both could be scum. It's a super strong strat to come up with at night. It's also risky as it links the two of you.

You are not confirmed, thus she is not confirmed.

I'm just saying that throwing confirmed around like that doesn't make it true, especially to anyone not you (if you're town). I don't know you're town yet.

[Kthxbye]

I'm sorry you drew scum

make a case or stfu.

[Kthxbye]

Also, C&S may or may not be scum, but we aren't lynching them before we lynch acryon. Notice he's letting all this other shit play out and remaining silent yeah?

I can't prove that's what he's doing as he hasn't posted anywhere else since the end of D1, but my gut tells me it's so.

[Kthxbye]

Care to comment on mastina's claim kthnxbye? Or are you just gonna continue your discredit on everyone pushing her?

A: The claim makes perfect sense considering the flip and no counter claim
B: It also makes sense that it's a town claim as I don't see the backup JOAT being a backup to a scum role
C: If memory serves, scum!Mastin doesn't flail as hard as they have today when getting attacked

I personally buy the claim and buy it as town at this time. Nothing said to the contrary has made more sense than the above.

[Kthxbye]

I personally don’t know anyone who would put a scum messenger that looks like town in a game, only a fool would do such a thing

Messenger IS NOT CONFIRMED. Quit acting like it is

[Kthxbye]

Hey Almost50.

Did you do anything last night with w/e role you have? I don't want specifics, just curious. I'd ask the same of NM, but he's just a douche disrupter and doesn't answer questions thrown at him anyway.

[Kthxbye]

and just to clarify, don't out w/e role you might have, just a "yeah, I did something" or "no, I didn't" is all I'm looking for. That goes for anyone willing to answer. Trying to figure something out.

*que NM saying some bullshit about this being scum trying to find PR's cuz he's an idiot and sadly probably town*

[Kthxbye]

just cuz you're blind as shit doesn't mean everyone else is.

also, I'm trying to find scum unlike you.

[Kthxbye]

Kthxbye if you're still there have you explained your decision to no lynch?

I am behind af but this is something I'd like to read during catch up

Because I think acry is scum as fuck. This hasn't changed.

[Kthxbye]

also, I'm done interacting with NM

[Kthxbye]

Acryon, did you take as action last night?

Almost, same question.

[Kthxbye]

Acryon, did you take as action last night?

Almost, same question.

Will them answering this help you determine alignments

You realise scum is just going to not lie here

I have a theory

[Kthxbye]

Hey Almost50.

Did you do anything last night with w/e role you have? I don't want specifics, just curious. I'd ask the same of NM, but he's just a douche disrupter and doesn't answer questions thrown at him anyway.

Without any specifics, I did.

Bull fucking shit.
Barring someone doing something to me last night to prevent my night action, this is a lie.

Or its the truth and he did the scum NK.

[Kthxbye]

VOTE: Almost50

[Kthxbye]

@all: pls consider today's lynch from here on a gladiate between myself and almost

[Kthxbye]

If I need to full claim to convince y'all, let me know. Otherwise, lynch this scum and let his mates try and figure out how I know he's lying on thier own

[Kthxbye]

Someone didnt pedit

[Kthxbye]

Hmmmm.... would have thought a scum acryon would bus immediately....

[Kthxbye]

@Kthx:

Is there any room for doubt here?

unless someone claims to have blocked my night action, there is zero doubt he used an ability. If he took action last night as he claims, it was to make the kill. He did not use a PR power

[Kthxbye]

Since I'm somehow at seemingly at L-1....might as well full claim and rely on protection.

Claim:
I am Jeff, yoing scientist from Winters. I saved a couple blokes from Zombies (presuming this is flavor). I am a follower. I see what forms of abilities my target uses at night. Targeted Lil Uzi as I missed that he was replaced. I got NO RESULT. I confirmed with MOD that he gave me result for Almost and didn't screw me for missing the replacement.

So, while I may be incorrect in Almost performing kill, he certainly DID NOT use an ability lady night. Therefore he is lying. Zero reason to lie about this as town

[Kthxbye]

I said IF he took an action as he says, it was the NK. My PR says he didn't use an ability last night so what else is there he could have done as town last night that doesnt make him lying scum?

[Kthxbye]

If nobody is smart enough to unvote me, at least be smart enough to Insta lynch whoever hammers should someone do so

[Kthxbye]

Pretend for a second I have super town cred and claim this. Is there any way A50 isn't lying with all the claims we've had today?

[Kthxbye]

So TW you believe A50 over kthx?

Where did A50 go?

A50 is doomed today or tomorrow. He's not going to post anymore as you not give town more posts to examine

[Kthxbye]

Still making no attempt to explain why he thought A50 must have made the kill

I said IF he took an action as he says, it was the NK. My PR says he didn't use an ability last night so what else is there he could have done as town last night that doesnt make him lying scum?

[Kthxbye]

Add mastina to the list since she claimed to have a roleblock. Don't remember that she said she used it so let's see what she says about kthx.

Why does it matter? He claims to have got a result/ If he had been RB'd he should've got "No Result". That's actually my point. A "No Result" is not incriminating, while "You Saw Nothing" is.

You see an RB claim?

[Kthxbye]

1382 is floundering btw. Grasping at anything to not be tomorrow's lynch when I flip town

[Kthxbye]

Then fucking get on with it and watch the flip.

And I swear, if the floundering gets A50 of the hook tomorrow... just surrender the game.

MOD: is the result of the follower ability different between seeing no action taken and having the follower ability role blocked. If so, can you give each type of result?

[Kthxbye]

I didn't want to just ask A50 and tip him off that I targeted him. If you look back, I asked EVERYONE to say if they did an action lady night for that reason

[Kthxbye]

Kthxbye can you slow down a little for me?

How are you reaching the conclusion that no result = scum night kill? I think that's fucking me up as much as anything else.

No result to me means no action. We'll see what MOD had to say. If No Result is only from being blocked, I take the entire accusation back and we are back to square one

[Kthxbye]

Kthxbye can you slow down a little for me?

How are you reaching the conclusion that no result = scum night kill? I think that's fucking me up as much as anything else.

No result to me means no action. We'll see what MOD had to say. If No Result is only from being blocked, I take the entire accusation back and we are back to square one

How does No Action = mafia night kill?

IF god damnit! IF he took an action, it wasn't PR related. Only other action in my mind is NK. Thay is where that came from

[Kthxbye]

In my experience, scum cant use role AND NK the same time

[Kthxbye]

Read follower, doesn't say muy target had to target in order for me to get result of your role. Try again

[Kthxbye]

Sigh...I can't believe I have to make this post.

First of all, just because A50 didn't target anyone (a huge part of his bullshit defense) doesn't mean I don't get a result from my PR.
From wiki: "The Follower is an informative role that can target a player at Night and learn what form of action they took that Night (investigation, protection, killing, etc), but not who they targeted." Nowhere in that definition does it state that the target of my follow must target someone in order for me to learn the form of night action.
From my PM: Without quoting and getting MOD KILLED, my role PM specifically states that I follow a target and learn what form of ability they used. It DOES NOT say I follow a target to another target and see what form of ability they used on that target or any other similar wording.

This is fucking simple people, if A50 used a PR, target or no, I would have learned what form of ability it was. This fucking includes abilities that don't target other players.

Secondly, a the NO RESULT defense is thin as fuck and keeps being thrown around and now seemingly validated somehow! WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU ALL?! It's super simple here. We have to wait on the MOD to confirm what he meant by no result. I've been out the game awhile but last I played, a NO RESULT from a night action meant you were RB'ed or messed with somehow OR the target didn't do anything that your PR investigated. I may have pulled the trigger a little early (as in I could have asked the MOD for clarification first), but getting NO RESULT on a player who claims they used a PR action last night screams lies.

Thirdly, the only part where I screwed up was suggesting he either lied about taking an action (scum) or did the NK. The NK part as I'm reading the wiki does in fact show up. So no, A50 did not make the NK. THIS DOESN'T DISCREDIT THE RESULT OF MY FOLLOW!!!!

Last thing I'll leave you with is this. ISO A50 after he realizes I had a result on him. He uses ALL of these and more to try and get out of being lynched and talks about no other reads other than my alignment. This is scum flailing 101 and you people are "so smart" you're passing right over it.


Once the MOD confirms what the NO RESULT he gave me means, and I very much expect it means my target did not take an action or I was RB'ed and NOT that the target didn't target someone else, A50 gets lynched and I'm confirmed town. Any other plan scum or badtown come up with that does not follow this is just dumb as fuck. Obviously, I'm only confirmed town after A50 flips scum. I want you all to realize how bad it will be for scum if we lynch scum!A50 today. First, we hit scum on D2 AND you get to confirm a town role with claimed town protection on the table.

[Kthxbye]

The only way town should back off an A50 lynch today is if the MOD says I would receive a NO RESULT only if I'm messed with by another PR or if, for some reason, the way he works follower is different than my understanding of how it works.

[Kthxbye]

The only way town should back off an A50 lynch today is if the MOD says I would receive a NO RESULT only if I'm messed with by another PR or if, for some reason, the way he works follower is different than my understanding of how it works.

What about A50 being blocked?

(except if she did lie about the JOAT)

It'd take until D4 to fully

Step two: I announce a roleblock target, preferably on someone who has an easily proven role; by their role failing to go through, this guarantees that I have the roleblock power.

you telling me you think there's another RB here NM?

[Kthxbye]

Kthxbye go wiki your own role. Happy to find the quote that satisfies me enough to wait for mod response.

how bout this, show me in the wiki where it states that follower only gets a result of ability used if that ability targets another player? All I see is that it doesn't give the targeted player. In English, this doesn't mean it doesn't work UNLESS my target targets another player, just that if another player is targeted, I don't get to know the target.

If you are talking about this: "Some moderators will tell Followers whose targets did not visit anyone "No Result"", then again, the English language here is key as well.

Definition of SOME: an unspecified amount or number of.

Sure, if the wiki said "All" "Most" or even "A majority", we wouldn't even be in this spot. Some is more like a few than it is like most.

Anything else?

[Kthxbye]

Theoretically the lynch pool would include most anyone else, but I always assume 1 scum on each wagon and the 3rd off it.

Ah, so nice and vague as fuck.

This is scum people. Even without my PR, this is scum.

[Kthxbye]

Also, chew on this. If this was town v town, A50 would habe been lynched already

P.edit: Sigh...NMs tunnel vision always this spectacular?

[Kthxbye]

NM, what happens when I flip town? Nvm, it'll just be OMGUS bullshit.

[Kthxbye]

well, that's a mighty convenient claim.

So, for claims we have a 1 shot Doc, a JK, a BG, AND a commuter? 4 ways to fuck scum outa killing who they want?

On one hand, it does (conveniently as fuck) explain away my night action and result no matter how MOD says he uses NO RESULT.

My problem now is do I believe you're a commuter and we have 3 other roles that protect/mess with scums NK or do I think the claim is way to convenient and you simply didn't act last night as a scum PR. The only way the latter makes much sense is if you are a 1-shot.

Another thing I'm considering is how long it took you to claim. Was it truly because you were trying to mess with scum night actions or was it because it took you a minute to find a better fake claim than the one provided by the MOD?

UNVOTE:
While I think about this.

Cuz if you're town, acryon and NM defending you as scum makes more sense than both of them throwing all their eggs into one basic to try and save a scum buddy.

Yeah, I'm gonna think about this and go through your posting.

[Kthxbye]

Acutally, question: If you are a commuter, why was your plan better than insta claiming? commuters simply can't ever die (unless scum have an RB in which case I don't know which happens first?).

Also, if you're a commuter, why the fuck did you try and discount my claim at ANY point? I claim follower and as a commuter, you'd know full well it's more than likely a true claim given my result instead of a scum fake claim yet you vote me and try to throw doubt about my claim. At least I think this happened, I will review in a bit as a lot of people said a lot of things about my claim...

[Kthxbye]

CS/Dino, what do you think of the claim? Help me out here.

[Kthxbye]

I don't believe A50's claim, but I still think it's kthnx/mastina/Math

......do you even read what you write?

[Kthxbye]

A50: Why did you leave your vote on me after I claimed and you fully believed I was what I claimed (according to your posts after my claim)?

[Kthxbye]

NM: what are your cases on me/mastina/math?

[Kthxbye]

I don't believe A50's claim, but I still think it's kthnx/mastina/Math

I'd say Mastina makes more sense, unless someone is faking their role. I mean, theoretically it's possible Dino did the NK and he would not have been suspected if tracked because he claimed to BG the target beforehand, but it looks damn to easy I'm not convinced Dino would do it, plus a BG would get lynched before LyLo if still alive.

Kthxbye would be my least suspect of the 3, because I wouldn't expect him going specifically after me.

If they wanted me dead they would have shot me

.. again unless BOTH Mastina and Dino are TOWN (i.e. either of those two being Scum with Kthxbye is virtually impossible because they would know better).

So,

I think Kthxbye is Town

and they (either or both) just saw an opportunity presented to them to try and get a lynch on me. Please refer to the overview of how it would have worked if I got mislynched and then they came back to blame it on Kthxbye for saying I was guilty and lynched him. Or maybe lynched just about any other townie who did vote me. They would be in LyLo with ease, and would have probably won already.

First bold, I'm not sure a commuter uses this language knowing his role. I would have expected "If they wanted me dead they would have

tried

to shoot me". It's a subtle difference but still.

Second bold, if this is true, why is your vote STILL on me?

[Kthxbye]

NM: what are your cases on me/mastina/math?

ISO

yeah, your ISO doesn't have any cases, just bullshit one liners. Do you know what a case is and how to go about building one?

[Kthxbye]

He probably has some weird plan

I did, but Kthxbye not differentiating between his result and an actual "didn't take any action" messed it up.

Note: MOD has not clarified this so....yeah.....

[Kthxbye]

alright A50. Let's say you're legit. Who are the scum and who is your lynch today?

[Kthxbye]

Sigh....

I don't think I'm comfy with an A50 lynch today.

On one hand, the claim is convenient as fuck. Depending on the order in which things are settled, if commuter goes off first, he's also unkillable by scum which is super strong for town considering the claims we have.

On the other hand, I can't think of a scum role with an action that would give me a NO RESULT nor a 1-shot PR powerful enough for him not to take an action but claim he did.


I think it's back to acryon for me which still a lynch on scum. Looking back over his activity during this follower fiasco doesn't do anything to change that.

VOTE: acryon

[Kthxbye]

A50 and NM: What is the scum motivation for basically conf towning me if they know both myself and A50 are town? If A50 is town and we lynch him today and he flips commuter, how do they get me mislynched later down the line when they said I'm town no matter what A50 flips?

[Kthxbye]

and with that, I'm out

[Kthxbye]

You're not conftown, you're not even town

and you're bad at this game b/c your case on me is that you can't not tunnel so here we are

[Kthxbye]

You're not conftown, you're not even town

also, if you would learn English, you'd see I wasn't saying I am confirmed town, I'm asking your for scum motivation for 2 other players you are calling scum for claiming in their posts that they think I'm confirmed town. Get with it or stfu.

[Kthxbye]

Theoretically the lynch pool would include most anyone else, but I always assume 1 scum on each wagon and the 3rd off it.

Ah, so nice and vague as fuck. This is scum people. Even without my PR, this is scum.

Indeed, which is both Mathdino and I's points: it doesn't matter whether you have a real guilty or it's a false guilty. The way Almost50 has reacted to it and his play even prior to the guilty tells you he's scum.

Unfortunately, I've not played with A50. His reaction could very well be as legit as my own fuck-uppery. At this point, how he's played is much less important than if his claim is true. If he is a commuter, he's almost certainly not scum. If commuter is a fake claim, he's obviously scum. The thing that I can't wrap my head around is my result and a scum role that would give me that result that would be powerful enough in a PR madness game.

Shit, along that line of thinking, I'm not sure 1-shot gladiator is powerful enough a scum PR. End game, sure, but only if a No Lynch was not an option. We have proved that he is gladiator (maaaaaybe not one shot) and that his gladiate is ignorable. Not very powerful a scum roll. Shit shit shit, I have to admit NM might be right about something this game.

UNVOTE:

[Kthxbye]

What does A50's claim change about kthnxbye and how he handled the claim? Just because his result lines up with A50's claim doesn't change how his jump to A50 making the NK made no sense and how he evaded multiple questions about it.

why don't you take your own advice and ISO if you actually still believe this is true

[Kthxbye]

ANMs tunnel vision always this spectacular?

Nope! This is more indicative of his scumgame than his towngame.

any links to games that show this? If yes, then I'd suggest an NM lynch right here and now. Being tired of his shit play isn't good enough a reason to lynch him, but showing meta suggesting it certainly is.

[Kthxbye]

@MOD: will we not be getting answers the the questions surrounding my role in thread? Would it more appropriate for me to PM you to clarify my role?

[Kthxbye]

well, that's a mighty convenient claim.

Why yes. Yes, it is.

Cuz if you're town, acryon and NM defending you as scum makes more sense than both of them throwing all their eggs into one basic to try and save a scum buddy.

I fail to see how. While it is true the defense is scum regardless of Almost50's alignment (just with a different driving motivation behind it), the simple fact is that as scum they have more reason to defend their scumbuddy than they do to defend a player they can just let be mislynched guilt-free.

If you think about it--acryon and Not_Mafia joining the Almost50 wagon gets Almost50 lynched. (We had 4/6 votes.) If they were scum, they get away with this because it is a stance they can get away with having held. Thus, the fact that they are scum and yet

didn't

hop on raises the question as to why.

It's the all eggs in one basket thing. I can see your point BUT they could have also not taken to his defense while at the same time waited out the MOD responses to questions before going after me. I'm the one that called for the 1v1, a scum partner could have taken that opportunity to look like rational town considering all options instead of defending A50 while at the same time going hard after me. It's thin, but no thinner than them both going hard core defense so as to save a scum buddy.

[Kthxbye]

@MOD: will we not be getting answers the the questions surrounding my role in thread? Would it more appropriate for me to PM you to clarify my role?

Quote your questions and I will respond to them.

@Mod: What result would a hypothetical Follower receive in the following situations:

A. The Follower is successfully roleblocked.
B. The target does nothing.
C. The target uses, for example, a rolecop ability and also makes a factional kill.
D. The target solely uses a rolecop ability.
E. The target solely makes a factional kill.
F. The target is a ninja and makes a factional kill.

@TW: I don't think anyone's a Lyncher here.

Then fucking get on with it and watch the flip.

And I swear, if the floundering gets A50 of the hook tomorrow... just surrender the game.

MOD: is the result of the follower ability different between seeing no action taken and having the follower ability role blocked. If so, can you give each type of result?

@MOD: I'd also like to add the question: If a follower targets a commuter, what is the order in which results are solved? Does commuter commute and is thus not targeted by follower or does the follower watch the commuter commute and get the result of the type of ability used?

[Kthxbye]

@CS: I, and likely many others, see your point and your case on A50 despite claim. That said, what scum role does he have that is both powerful enough to be in this game with all the power has claimed to have that would make him invisible to me like commuter or make him take no action last night while at the same time openly claiming he did take an action? Anything other than the unlikely Strongman+Ninja? Let's slow down a tad and think this through. Don't go all tunnely like NM

[Kthxbye]

Did you know that Mafia Ascetic is considered to be even stronger a scum role than Mafia Godfather? Guarantees investigatives fails, guarantees roleblocks fail, and can easily fakeclaim commuter because really, who's going to know the difference? A nonexistent vig?

I did not know about that role. There are a multitude of rolls I do no know.

[Kthxbye]

You didn't start off weak, A50.

You started off with a bang looking good, and even claimed that you expected my protection. You seemed to expect the NK enough to commute last night.

Can you find this post where he expects your protection?

[Kthxbye]

Fuck it, out of everyone I have the largest gut town read on Dino. Sheeping him tonight.

p.edit. Re-A50 p929. Would town commuter A50, expecting Dino to protect him, say something D1 to the effect of "don't protect me tonight..."?

[Kthxbye]

VOTE: NM
I'm not taking away my sheep, but my only concern with a brand new wagon is it would end up with yet another claim on D2.

[Kthxbye]

FTR, that's 4 votes on NM. No accidental hammers

[Kthxbye]

UNVOTE:

PM sent and I'm not voting till I get a reply.

[Kthxbye]

Alright, based on my pm interaction and NAR, A50 checks out. If he was ninja, I'd get something other than no result. Ascetic modifier and RB are the only other ways I get a NR last night. So A50 is ascetic or commuter or i was RBed.

[Kthxbye]

Commuter would be a good fake claim for ascetic but I'm not sure town gets no way to deal with ascetic scum other than to lynch so I'm leaning commuter? Sigh. Glad I'm just sheeping today, cuz I have no idea what to think.

VOTE: not mafia

[Kthxbye]

Kthx so we're assuming no result definitely does not mean no action performed; what made you reach that conclusion in the end?

Did someone actually pm the mod with questions to verify?

I did, yes

[Kthxbye]

MD, thats assuming scum dont kill me tonight

[Kthxbye]

A50 is going to be around tomorrow as town or scum. In fact, we will either have to lynch him at some point or he's going to end game, and that's bad.

Actually, side thought, unless we explicitly want him alive at end game, why aren't we lynching him today?

With all the doubt about the claim and play, if we cant confirm his as town, it's a huge liability. Basically, we make a game winning/losing decision right now that he is conftown or not.

[Kthxbye]

Having unconfirmed town him alive does nothing for us anymore (admittedly my fault) as scum wont attempt to shoot him at night and will, if he's town, bring today's events back to light at end game.

[Kthxbye]

Hell, same goes for acryon. Now VT, with no way to conf town him.

P.edit: acryon, how can we confirm him?

[Kthxbye]

Problem is we cant effectively target a commuter to get a result per NAR....so....yeah, no confirming commuter

[Kthxbye]

I'm photo man, I'm a motion detector, I set up a camera outside someone's house to see if anyone visits or leaves, no one visited acryon last night and acryon took no action

Why in the fuck would you target acryon?!

[Kthxbye]

Also, thats THREE investigation claims...

[Kthxbye]

Not finishing, stating facts.

Also, the more important fact is that NM claims to have watched someone that scum was in no way shape or form going to target lady night

[Kthxbye]

Nah, we're doing this instead.

VOTE: Marangal

Okay

VOTE: Momrangal

So, why we going after the claimed messenger? Also, can someone remind me what happened with this claim and lack of result?

[Kthxbye]

Plus, a messenger sending a message saying "I'm town" is lolworthy.

yeah, I was thinking this as well, but it's just as lolworthy for it to be a scum messenger. Fakeclaim maybe? Did we ever figure out why her message didn't go through?

[Kthxbye]

ANYWAY

Me and Mara are not synching Thus she must be scum (we never sync)
Mara is not working with me she must be scum
Maras plan with her role is more convenient as scum and she would never do that as town and thus is scum

So you're saying we had a town backup JOAT who was backing up a scum JOAT?

Is this even a thing that has ever happened?

[Kthxbye]

What's the VC on A50 and are we really ready to end this day? I have some concern about the lurkers letting this all play out with minimal posting...

[Kthxbye]

VOTE: A50

Thats 4

[Kthxbye]

UNVOTE:

Enjoy the catchup

[Kthxbye]

Wanna see this flow chart as well

[Kthxbye]

A50: Isn't the strongman unless scum have a strongman ninja kill.

I already confirmed with the mod that I would get something other than "NO RESULT" if I targeted a ninja. I would get that they did not perform an action in that case.

[Kthxbye]

Brafin:

Why? With two pretty much confirmed scum, why wouldn't we wand to lynch them both today?

This

[Kthxbye]

Acryon's REALLY make me want to lynch him first.

[Kthxbye]

We confirm IB town for one. Thus, at night, scum have to go after PRs and leave confirmed town alive or leave the PRs alive and go after confirmed town.
Do you not think well hit scum between you and A50?

[Kthxbye]

Then who would you lynch to for the best possibly of hitting scum?

[Kthxbye]

I would say there is likely at least one scum in the protect pool and one in the invest pool. Fmpov, that leaves 1 in NM and Worst/1 in CS and Beef.

I'm not willing to lynch any of those today though.

Pedit:
VOTE: acryon

FINALLY!

[Kthxbye]

Icon was exhibiting textbook scum play to me, and you were believing and following lines that made no sense for town!MD to follow IMO.

Wait a tick. I'm on phone so I can't track this down easily, but didn't ypu say you were town reading at least one of them when trying to explain your gladiate?

Anyone?

[Kthxbye]

Ok so I'm not sure at which point the plan got picked, but FWIW I fully endorse the conservative plan, and not the alternate plan. I think we need to be conservative, which has been my whole point. We can't afford to play cocky when we're this close to LyLo and the town is so far from agreement on most scumreads.

Ftr, from my standpoint, if acry is scum, so is CS.

The big difference between the 2 plans for me is who is slotted to protect me at night. This means major distancing has been going on.

[Kthxbye]

Yes...once Mod confirms double day

[Kthxbye]

Acryon: you claim to be vanilla now, y so opposed to your lynch?

[Kthxbye]

Acryon: you claim to be vanilla now, y so opposed to your lynch?

1) I like playing mafia.
2) I know I am town so a lynch on anyone I think is scum is strictly better.

let's look at this from a 'town wants to win as a whole' instead of a 'acryon likes to post in forum and says he's town' mindset.

If you're actually town and you make it anywhere near end game alive, town is fucked cuz many think you're very possibly scum.

If I'm actually wrong and you are town, we mislynch an effective VT that needs to die sooner than later anyway.

If YOU'RE wrong and we lynch CS, we lose a good PR.

10/10 would rather be wrong about you than have you anywhere near end game.

That said, you're scum so it dont matter

[Kthxbye]

Kthx and the worst can you guys please lynch acryon so we can get on with the day

Already there bud

[Kthxbye]

hammer, hammer, hammer, hammer

[Kthxbye]

Just popping in to say I called that shit D1

[Kthxbye]

Not speed lynching A50 at this time though....we have 9 days.

I want to talk about the CS connection.

I'll be honest, the hard bus on acryon and CS is looking legit as fuck.

[Kthxbye]

I'm holding out till I can get a sense of how acryon felt toward A50.

I kinda feel like there might be a commuter with all the investigate claims so that it throws us off like it threw me off.

[Kthxbye]

For full-disclosure, here is a full list:
Town
Almost50
the worst
Carrot & Stick

Lean-town
Not_Mafia
InfernoBrafin (James Brafin + Inferno390)
Momrangal

Null
Kthxbye
Mathdino

Lean-scum
TheGoldenParadox
Iconeum
BuJaber

Scum
Beefster

Can you talk me through how you got from here to selecting these two players? Do you think they're scum together?

Overall, I wanted to pick players I was scumreading that had a smaller chance of typically being lynched, playing it similarly to how I would play a vig. I think if Beefster or Bu specifically are scum, town will get them soon enough.

Math had been quickly moving moving down the spectrum for me, as I mentioned. To be completely honest, part of the reason I selected him is because I am frustrated with his read progression on me, but ultimately I can't see town!Dino allowing himself to be coached into the crappy dive he did on me.

I think it's very possible they are a team together, especially considering how Icon seemed to be coaching Math toward me, which makes sense given the lack of day-talk.

This post specifically I think is crucial. Notice who is in town and lean-town. CS is there to my surprise as well as A50, NM, and Mom. I think this post is important b/c he was setting up his reason for the 2 gladiator targets with his reads list. MD was a high town pick for him till MD went after acryon. I think scum lies within his town reads and not his scum reads.

fuck it. based on that line of thought:

VOTE: A50

That's L-1

[Kthxbye]

Here it is with color coordination

For full-disclosure, here is a full list:

Town

Almost50
the worst
Carrot & Stick

Lean-town

Not_Mafia
InfernoBrafin (James Brafin + Inferno390)
Momrangal

Null

Kthxbye

Mathdino

Lean-scum

TheGoldenParadox

Iconeum

BuJaber

Scum

Beefster

[Kthxbye]

Maybe 1 in BJ/Beefster?

[Kthxbye]

NM used an investigative ability last night

[Kthxbye]

Did I miss the Mom confirm somewhere?

[Kthxbye]

Also, call me setup spec scared, but I'm not sure town gets 3 investigates even WITH investigation immune goon. Maybe I'm just paranoid...

[Kthxbye]

No movement on mom

Here.

Can we lynch Bujaber now?

ah, I read NM's power as watching for people to show up...missed the leaving part.

For Me

Beefster: Jailkeeper
Bujaber: Probably a Compulsive Visitor? Unclaimed

InfernoBrafin: 1-shot Double Daymaker

Kthxbye: Follower

Mathdino: Bodyguard
Momrangal: Messenger
Not_Mafia: Motion Detector
the worst: Investigative

Carrot & Mastina: JOAT (Roleblocker, Rolecop, Doctor)
Iconeum: Backup JOAT
GoldenParadox: Hider

acryon: 1-shot Gladiator/Traitor

Almost50: Investigation Immune goon

Pedit: I don't agree with you holstering. TBH, I want to investigate you while you BG me tonight. I know it's highly unlikely for you to be scum here, but damn, if you were scum, you win this game by simply bussing and leading.

[Kthxbye]

Is there a world in which NM is a scum investigative role?

[Kthxbye]

I mean, game balance doesn't take into account everyone and their mother claiming by early D2

[Kthxbye]

I'd be up for a Beefster lynch at this point from a pure setup spec standpoint. If a JK can't keep a strongman from killing and scum have a strongman AND a JK can't stop non killing actions from targeting them or their targets, it just doesn't make sense in this game.

If Beefster was scum, does that take away the idea of a strongman with what claims have come out?

[Kthxbye]

My power means nothing. Scum used their strongman on N1 and N2. I'm much better off holstering and allowing myself to be cleared by Not_Mafia.

If we double up you and the worst on Beefster (or whoever else), we can ensure a result even if scum kills one of you.

Game balance is either 4 mafia (in which case Not_Mafia is fucking clearly the 4th scum) or just thinks that a mafia strongman will neuter all the protectives and roleblockers.

If you are BG and you BG me, I can clear you of all doubt. That is a bonus going forward for sure. I'm more than a little worried about scum killing CS and not you considering...

[Kthxbye]

did scum not kill you to simply make the rest of us (or me anyway) ask the question as to why? Your reads of the 3rd scum being shit or not, killing CS doesn't make any sense unless...

mastina blocks Beefster
Beefster jails mastina

This implicates Beefster....except it's been said that strongman is something scum have had for a long time. So, again, makes no sense to kill CS because if it's assumed there's a strongman, this negates the implication that Beefster is scum for the kill going through.

So.....

Even though your power is useless with a strongman in the mix, it doesn't matter if you holster it or use it so I can clear you. If I die from strongman, so be it. If NM is town, can can simply watch me to see who else visits me other than you and you are cleared and scum is caught caught. If nobody visits me, I will get a message saying you actually are our savior. It'd make me feel a lot better going forward.

[Kthxbye]

also, if scum kill you, you will have gotten your wish to die ASAP.

tbh, mom lynch here makes me the most comfortable.

VOTE: momrangal

[Kthxbye]

the worst's investigative relies on me not performing a night action

How so?

[Kthxbye]

@Gamma: what's the resolution of a JK and a RB that target each other?

Copy
Hide
Bus Drive
Block
Redirect
Protect
Miscellaneous
Kill
Recruit
Inspect

I'm guessing that because a JK is both a block and a protect, that the block would happen first?

[Kthxbye]

Yup. I definitely JK'd mastina, so there is a strongman unless mastina's roleblock had priority over my jailkeep.

@Gamma: what's the resolution of a JK and a RB that target each other?

VOTE: BuJaber
Half sheeping Dino's gamesolve. Half I had some suspicions before anyway.

This whole post makes me uneasy....

[Kthxbye]

I have no goddamn clue tbh

So you'll target me tonight with your BG then for my own peace of mind?

pedit: This is the best I can give you right now.
UNVOTE:

[Kthxbye]

You'd think hitting scum back to back would make me feel good about the state of this game....sadly, it does not.../sigh

[Kthxbye]

I mean, RB is a perfect way to claim strongman...makes sense.

That said, a hammer on me at that point would have also been a scum claim so....not definitive.

[Kthxbye]

VOTE: Beefster

yeah, I'm good with this with the information we have.

[Kthxbye]

@MD: I just wanna say I'm sorry for asking you to prove yourself tonight for me. Your wagon history is beyond reproach. TBH, just take it as a compliment to how I see your MS skills that I could see you as being so bold as scum as to bus all your buddies and in fact lead their wagons to win the game for scum.

[Kthxbye]

Okay so lemme think. Beefster is clearly the scummiest person by a mile in terms of play besides Not_Mafia, who has already been cleared. Problem is him being scum requires mafia jailkeeper, which is a bit iffy.

Not_Mafia and Marangal are either both town or are both scum (or there's 4 scum and someone other than the two of them did the nightkill). We could resolve that situation by lynching Marangal, who could've had some kind of investigative role that got blocked by Beefster (forcing her to come up with a messenger fakeclaim). If she's scum, lynching Not_Mafia wins the game. If she's town:

Beefster/Mathdino holster
the worst checks Beefster
Kthxbye checks Bujaber
Not_Mafia checks Mathdino

This actually works pretty well. Alternatively, if you guys are okay with me not being checked, we can just lynch Not_Mafia, keep Marangal alive, and I'll go ahead and guard Kthxbye.

First, Beefster could not be an RB at all. His "protected" targets have been killed. Who came up with the idea of RB in the first place? There may be no strongman and just him claiming RB as a false claim. Right?

Secondly, if we were to figure out if MOM/NM were the scum team, lynching a claimed messenger is by far much better than lynching a confirmed investigative.

[Kthxbye]

it's out of the question that Beef and Mom are the team?

[Kthxbye]

uhg...do we have a consolidated claimed action/resolution list somewhere? My head hurts.

[Kthxbye]

Alright, I'm sold on Dino being town or deserving to win this game as scum. Either way, he deserves a scummy (if those are still a thing).

[Kthxbye]

I already said I was following you tonight math. Need to rework plan?

[Kthxbye]

Will hammer when I get home most likely. Trying to follow on phone isn't working out

[Kthxbye]

Math, it makes zero sense for you to holster. Strongman or not, it's suspicious as fuck and I don't like that you keep insisting you will holster b/c it's worthless. It's also pointless to holster over using, so fucking say you'll use it or your plan be damned.

[Kthxbye]

New plan:
Protectives:
Beefster holsters
Mathdino holsters

Investigatives:
the worst checks Beefster

Kthx checks Mathdino
Not_Mafia checks Beefster

Miscellaneous:
Marangal messages the worst


It's one simple switch but it'll make me feel a shit ton better.

[Kthxbye]

Oops, almost forgot:

New plan:
Protectives:
Beefster holsters

Mathdino BGs IDGAF

Investigatives:
the worst checks Beefster

Kthx checks Mathdino
Not_Mafia checks Beefster

Miscellaneous:
Marangal messages the worst

[Kthxbye]

IF BEEFSTER HOLSTERS PER YOUR PLAN, I GET NO RESULT!

you using BG while I follow and NM watching Beef nets the same result. Actually, it nets a BETTER result. I clear you and we still see what beefster is up to. If Beef doesn't move, you still have the worst checking him. I don't see what you are talking about?

[Kthxbye]

Here is the plan:

New plan:
Protectives:
Beefster holsters
Mathdino BGs IDGAF

Investigatives:
the worst checks Beefster
Kthx checks Mathdino
Not_Mafia checks Beefster

Miscellaneous:
Marangal messages the worst

[Kthxbye]

Also, you said NM has to be the only person targeting a player??? That literally makes no sense when compared to YOUR plan....wtf Dino? you slipping?

[Kthxbye]

Do you not understand that I will get NO FUCKING RESULT FROM TARGETING A PLAYER WHO TAKES NO ACTION?! I'm beginning to think you legitimately don't understand what a follower is.

[Kthxbye]

re: you targeting beefster: yes, that's the whole point, if you get no result and scum still kills, that clears beefster as town

walk me through this? how? how does this clear him as town if there are 4 mafia in play?

[Kthxbye]

I am already finalising my decision to not do anything, so Not_Mafia can clear me by getting a result of "no motion detected".

THIS DOES NOT CLEAR YOU IT JUST MEANS YOU DIDN'T DO ANYTHING!

[Kthxbye]

fine, w/e. If everyone else is great with your plan, fuck em if you're scum. I'll just post "I fucking told you so" at the end of the game till the thread is deleted.

For the record, the "I told you so" will come from not clearing a claimed BG who 'wants to die as soon a possible' yet never dies.

I'd vote Bu here to make a point of me throwing my hands up, but he's already lynched and we are arguing in twilight at this point. WTFE

[Kthxbye]

I'd vote Bu here to make a point of me throwing my hands up, but he's already lynched and we are arguing in twilight at this point. WTFE

[Kthxbye]

Aggravating game. Very scum sided, though trying to break a game via PR claims is also a bit silly as well. No idea why we didn't lynch NM based purely on play. Hindsight being 20/20 and all, I will not make that mistake again. I should have stuck with my thought that having that many investigative rolls all be town was dumb. Ah well, gg scum.

[Kthxbye]

Also, just going to point out that we did NOT in fact have a strongman to go against and the insistence that we did was a large part of the downfall.