Mini 858 - Dexter Season One (Game Over)

[charter]

Konowa suspect cause of what Artem said @ 58, and ruling out chamber’s fishing.

[Budja]

OK, it seems I didn't notice the extra page before.

Asking for a name claim is worlds away from asking for my exact role. You now know my name but I believe it is more likely to help me convince town than help scum.

Millers should be treated as any other player, lynch them if they are scummy, simple as that.

This is the best move IMO. (of course I am bias but I would still agree from a neutral perspective.)

Enough about me now .

- Sotty's meta example makes her attitude look reasonable to me. Strikes me as concerned town.
- chamber attitude isn't good but I am getting the sense that he really does believe what he is saying, as anti-town as it is.

unvote

- Charters PR kind-of reminds me of a game I played with Juls where we could send messages of max 20 words to each other. Not much better than gut but it makes me believe charter a little more.
- Just a note that I have no real opinion of Konowa yet. I'm not getting the off-ness that Socio, charter are.

[chamber]

More opinions on my voting suggestion are encouraged.

[Cyberbob]

I don't really like chamber's suggestion. Nobody would be stupid enough to not follow through on a vote they've promised to place but it would still remove a lot of the impact that a vote normally carries by placing that degree of distance between the sentiment and the action itself.

Artem's Post 58 is a good one, and is part of the reason why I think people should be a lot more hesitant to nameclaim. Even if your own character is not someone that is likely to have any useful powers, the nightkill target pool is shrunk.

how blatant chamber is going about it does not strike me as something scum would do.

This is really bad.

FOS: Konowa

[SocioPath]

More opinions on my voting suggestion are encouraged.

I think it would eliminate both the pressure of votes, and information gained from hammer votes.

- Just a note that I have no real opinion of Konowa yet. I'm not getting the off-ness that Socio, charter are.

4) I don't get what people don't like about Konowa.

Well...

Sotty asking for a name claim, before we saw that the possibility of roles being tied to characters, seemed more like a scum move to me.

That seems very forced, and subtle role-fishing.
"Before we saw the possibility of roles being tied to characters"?
I'm pretty sure Mr. Miller here knew from the second he saw his role and ability that it was tied to his character.
And its not a far leap to conclude the possibilities of roles would be at least somewhat related to their character is likely.

[chamber]

More opinions on my voting suggestion are encouraged.

I think it would eliminate both the pressure of votes, and information gained from hammer votes.

Cause people randomly being the hammer at l-1 or l-2 is real informative. It only takes away impact if we let it.

[Sotty7]

- Charters PR kind-of reminds me of a game I played with Juls where we could send messages of max 20 words to each other. Not much better than gut but it makes me believe charter a little more.

Linky?

As for chamber's voting suggestion I can see the benefit, but the whole FOS thing is a lot weaker than actual votes. The scum will have no issues in throwing FOS's down maybe in situations were they wouldn't normally vote. Considering that we don't know what it will actually take to lynch someone, votes become even more powerful and telling when they are placed. So I pretty much agree with Cyberbob's 78.

[chamber]

Can we at least agree on a reasonable number of max votes that should be placed on someone prior to us wanting them lynched?

[charter]

L-1? If it's real small, scum can control it, I'd wager it's ~majority.

[chamber]

L-1? If it's real small, scum can control it, I'd wager it's ~majority.

I agree that its probably ~majority but wouldn't that make the safe number l-2.

[AlmasterGM]

Putting a number on things seems difficult. It's fairly obvious votes are weighted differently - e.g., some people votes could be meaningless while others carry a huge force.

[charter]

Why do you say that Alamaster? It's not obvious to me.

[AlmasterGM]

1) Numbers are not listed in the VC.

2) L-X is a secret.

2) Role PM explicitly specifies voting as an ability and talks about it.

[charter]

I knew those, but whatever, I should probably shut up.

[Locke Lamora]

Although it is something I am keeping my eye on at the moment Artem, how blatant chamber is going about it does not strike me as something scum would do.

Sotty asking for a name claim, before we saw that the possibility of roles being tied to characters, seemed more like a scum move to me.

Sotty's request is more pro-town than chamber's. Chamber is just straight-up trying to get Budja to reveal the extent of his abilities. Sotty simply wanted to assess the miller claim in comparison with the name claim. How is asking for a name claim, which might give clues about abilities, more scummy than blatantly trying to find out how useful Budja's role is?

Putting a number on things seems difficult. It's fairly obvious votes are weighted differently - e.g., some people votes could be meaningless while others carry a huge force.

This. I don't think everyone has the same voting powers in this game. As for chamber's suggestion, I don't see how we can come up with a safe point to stop voting when we have no idea what the pre-condition for arrest is; it doesn't even specify that it's simply going to be an L-X deal. I think we should avoid getting too deep into discussions about voting and just play as normal with the awareness that votes could be more significant than normal.

[Artem]

Although it is something I am keeping my eye on at the moment Artem, how blatant chamber is going about it does not strike me as something scum would do.

Isn't this WIFOM? If your biggest concern is that Budja's abilities will become revealed to the scum, then explicitly asking for those abilities is more dangerous, especially if it's blatant and aggressive, because it can cause Budja (assuming he really is a miller) to cave and reveal that info.

If a player is asking for his character's name, then the player is then faced with a puzzle of trying to infer abilities based on the name, which in itself is non-trivial, relies highly on the knowledge of the show and the intuition behind what the mod would do. (which we've already had problems with when charter revealed his character's name)

What you're doing is setting up a double-standard and giving Chamber a free pass while accusing Sotty7 of something that Chamber is more guilty of. Both Chamber and Sotty7 gave you pro-town reasons for their "fishing", so dismissing one and focusing on the other is kinda bad.

Now, from my perspective, all these "role-fishing" accusations are BS. If you don't know somebody's alignment and they drop a "miller" claim, hell yea you're going to test them and prod for more information. What if Budja fails to provide a character's name that could be considered a miller? Then it would be more likely that he's making up the miller claim. Chamber and Sotty7 are more pro-town in my eyes because they don't just dismiss the claim as "something to look at later in the game", but start to challenge it right off the bat. People who are accusing them of "fishing", on the other hand, are quite scummy in my opinion.

So I'd like to start with

Vote: Konowa

.

[chamber]

Now, from my perspective, all these "role-fishing" accusations are BS. If you don't know somebody's alignment and they drop a "miller" claim, hell yea you're going to test them and prod for more information. What if Budja fails to provide a character's name that could be considered a miller? Then it would be more likely that he's making up the miller claim. Chamber and Sotty7 are more pro-town in my eyes because they don't just dismiss the claim as "something to look at later in the game", but start to challenge it right off the bat. People who are accusing them of "fishing", on the other hand, are quite scummy in my opinion.

<3

You still might be scum trying to buddy me, but for now I'm just happy that I'm no longer doubting my sanity.

[charter]

No.. Artem, he asked if Budja had other powers. Blatant fishing.

[Cyberbob]

<3

You still might be scum trying to buddy me

, but for now I'm just happy that I'm no longer doubting my sanity.

For the record, this kind of cute phrasing doesn't really do much for your image.

[chamber]

<3

You still might be scum trying to buddy me

, but for now I'm just happy that I'm no longer doubting my sanity.

For the record, this kind of cute phrasing doesn't really do much for your image.

I thought the entire doubting sanity thing when talking about millers was much more 'cute'.

[Juls]

Vote Count

AlmasterGM

( )

Artem

( )

Budja

( )

chamber

(Cyberbob, charter)

charter

()

Cyberbob

( )

Debonair Danny DiPietro

( )

Jebus

( )

Konowa

(Artem)

Locke Lamora

( )

SocioPath

( )

Sotty7

( )

Not Voting :

AlmasterGM, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Jebus, Konowa, Locke Lamora, SocioPath, Sotty7, chamber, Budja

Deadline :

November 4

[Budja]

@Sotty, here

My opinions (again):
Chamber

was

quite obviously fishing.
Sotty was asking for a name claim. This actually had a decent purpose so wasn't bad.

@Artem, what pro-town reason does chamber have?
Also would accusing chamber of fishing really be a bad thing? (Note chamber, not sotty here).

I agree that chambers idea would reduce pressure, we should just be more careful with votes above L-2 or so.

BTW, I nameclaim and no-one comments? Did you really care that much?

[Locke Lamora]

I think Neil Perry fits with miller. What's the specific flavour reasoning behind that in the PM? I can guess, but I'd like to hear it from you.

Sotty, Chamber: what do you think of that name claim?

[Sotty7]

The name works for me. I'm more willing to treat the claim for what it is now.

[SocioPath]

I've seen season 1 twice.
Seasons 2 and 3.
And am current on Season 4.

If I don't believe a name claim, you better believe I'm going to ride the hell out of it.