Mini 886 - Popcorn Mafia - Game over!

[ortolan]

do your research please, Bogre always acts like this;

Ok, how so?

look at his post history, I can't reference ongoing games

Here is the problem Ort.

I was asked to answer that question.

Try reading the thread before you jump to conclusions. Vala asked me whether I would, so I answered her question.

The offending question was your own one which you added:

A quick reactionary question? Do we know for sure that we are unable to shoot ourselves anyway? It isn't stated that we can't, and that would be one hell of a blow to the town IMO (A day with no lynch except worse because of how this game works).

As for your second point, saying me putting we in my statement is scummy, thats grasping at straws and ludicrous.

Yer I'll bet.

Also, you first say you associate newb scum with being "defensive," then say you associate them with giving out information so they can be "evaulated 'fairly'". I don't understand; these two appear to be at odds.

No, I associate them with being defensive and self-explanatory, which you were, and I didn't say "giving out information" is a scum-tell, I said you looked like you looked like you were trying really hard to give the impression of giving out "neutral"-sounding information, and in fact were overacting the extent to which a townie would give out this sort of information.

Your attacking of DoS for answering a question represents either a fundamental misreading of the game, or an eagerness to attack SOMEONE that is often displayed by scum.

yeahhhhhhhhhhhh...no. What I attacked him for wasn't his answer to a question, it was one who tacked on, so it's all moot.

This townie wants to be evaluated "fairly" and is perfectly happy to offer information that makes himself look scummy if it happens to be true.

Irrelevant because the information rite gave out didn't serve to make him look scummy anyways.

I don't like the attempt to cut through my points with arbitrary philosophical method by rite and DoS. rite in particular strikes me as more scummy whereas I can still see DoS going either way. I will re-read Sarag if you like, Slicey.

[ortolan]

Sarag's early posts look pro-town (I almost feel the "I considered acting scummy to get the gun" comment is actually more likely to come from town). More recently I dunno, she's obviously intelligent and I have no familiarity with her playstyle so I'm not sure how to interpet some of the stuff she's said. I do feel that the proposed Sarag-Bogre scumpair possibility is deeply retarded; if anything I would think the way she inititally FoSed Bogre was more likely to come from scum reluctant to attack a townie too hard than from scum-scum. As I don't think she's scum with Bogre 114 gets her more pro-town points.

I'm also surprised at Xyl positing the Bogre-Sarag scumpair himself, I think he might be in scum-mode tbh. IIRC I had a strong contingent-town tell on Drake also, which makes me even more skeptical of his list.

[Xylthixlm]

Scum: Bogre, Sarag, ortolan, DraketheFake

Almost agree. I don't think ort is scum, at least not yet.

What about now?

[DragonsofSummer]

*bump*

Ort you are now back tracking: This is your original attack on me.

DoS' 41 is one of the scummiest posts I've ever seen. He goes down this completely, 100% irrelevant tangent of "what the point of shooting yourself would be". The answer is none. It's not even an issue worth considering for 2 seconds. The second paragraph is also really really scummy.

A quick reactionary question?

Do we know for sure that we are unable to shoot ourselves anyway? It isn't stated that we can't, and that would be one hell of a blow to the town IMO (A day with no lynch except worse because of how this game works).

I see no purpose for this paragraph, except for the bolded part. What the bolded part serves to do is imply that he is town in a self-conscious manner: "Do

we

know for sure that

we

are unable to shoot ourselves anyway?" He is going out of his way to speculate as to what he'd do when he were in a certain position i.e. in possession of the gun. Of course, you need to be town to ever be in possession of the gun because if you're scum you don't get the gun when you get shot, you just die. So all this post/paragraph is is a long and convoluted and self-conscious way of implying that he is town.

He

also

acted extremely scummily in response to my announced but unjustified suspicions of him

Why do you find me scummy? Because if I was the gun bearer I wouldn't jokingly shoot myself? Ortolan you make no sense.

He instantly leaps to assumptions about what my reasons for suspecting him are (why would any townie do that?). How does he know that was my reason for suspecting him anyway? Guilty conscience about that self-conscious original post methinks..

Which clearly involves my statement about shooting one's self. Then you say that wasn't part of your attack at all?

I had every right to assume you were attacking me for those reasons, it was the only real post I had made and you immediately said I was scum afterwards. It has nothing to do with a "guilty" conscience and everything to do with how ridiculous you sound.

[Vala Mal Doran]

This thread had a near-death experience. D:

Anyway, I don't have anything in particular to add at this time. Certain people who know who they are need to talk more, or risk being shot.

[Xylthixlm]

Still happy with my scumlist.

[Yosarian2]

This thread had a near-death experience. D:

Anyway, I don't have anything in particular to add at this time. Certain people who know who they are need to talk more, or risk being shot.

Vaya, especially.

Otherwise, there's a lot of people who haven't posted all weekend; I'm willing to give them some slack because of the holiday weekend and all that, but I expect to hear from all of them sometime soon.

[ortolan]

Which clearly involves my statement about shooting one's self. Then you say that wasn't part of your attack at all?

Twisting my words. That's a scumtell.

Recap:

I attack you with:

I see no purpose for this paragraph, except for the bolded part. What the bolded part serves to do is imply that he is town in a self-conscious manner: "Do we know for sure that we are unable to shoot ourselves anyway?" He is going out of his way to speculate as to what he'd do when he were in a certain position i.e. in possession of the gun. Of course, you need to be town to ever be in possession of the gun because if you're scum you don't get the gun when you get shot, you just die. So all this post/paragraph is is a long and convoluted and self-conscious way of implying that he is town

rah rah rah

- you respond that you only posted the offending (scummy) content because you had to give a reply

- I reply that no, the scummy content was contained within your self-proclaimed "reactionary question", thereby refuting your defence based on the fact you were obliged to say that in answer to a question.

No backtracking, no contradictions, no nothing (on my part). You is scummy.

[Sarag]

Hey folks, just popping in to say I won't be able to post properly until tomorrow evening. Sorry, I've had a busy weekend and now I'm preparing for a presentation tomorrow.

[Xylthixlm]

Certain people who know who they are need to talk more, or risk being shot.

I suggest naming names

[Vala Mal Doran]

Vaya and Zakeri, mostly.

[Slicey]

Scum: Bogre, Sarag, ortolan, DraketheFake

Almost agree. I don't think ort is scum, at least not yet.

What about now?

Do you honestly think ort would defend all his scumbuddies?

[Yosarian2]

Scum: Bogre, Sarag, ortolan, DraketheFake

Almost agree. I don't think ort is scum, at least not yet.

What about now?

Do you honestly think ort would defend all his scumbuddies?

So, your argument is that Ort is defending Borgre, so you don't think they're scum together? That seems completely backwards to me; it's basically the bad kind of WIFOM. In reality, scum do defend each other all the time.

[ortolan]

fyi I never do. I would only defend someone as scum if I would defend them as town.

[Xylthixlm]

fyi I never do. I would only defend someone as scum if I would defend them as town.

Unfortunately for you, when you're scum you're horrible at judging what you would have done as town.

[Zakeri]

I don't think Ortolan is a bad enough player to blatantly defend three people if he knew they were all scum. 'specially if there were only four scum. On the other hand, Ort's method of attacking DoS strikes me as poor.

"Do

we

know for sure that

we

are unable to shoot ourselves anyway?" [...] So all this post/paragraph is is a long and convoluted and self-conscious way of implying that he is town.

He instantly leaps to assumptions about what my reasons for suspecting him are (why would any townie do that?). How does he know that was my reason for suspecting him anyway? Guilty conscience about that self-conscious original post methinks.

Both of these look like vicious implants of thoughts into someone else's mouth. They're basically just gotcha games in the very sense of the word - "GOTCHA! You were trying to make yourself look like a townie by feigning concern for your play in a position only a townie could be in!" or "GOTCHA! You were trying to figure out why I suspected you, and you got it right, which must mean you knew you were doing something scummy even though I didn't call you out on it, A HA!"

Despite desperate proclamations to the opposite, Xyl's opinion is fallible. I'd say only about half of his scumlist is right by now, and I'm think it's the Bogre/Ort half right now because of this.

[Slicey]

Scum: Bogre, Sarag, ortolan, DraketheFake

Almost agree. I don't think ort is scum, at least not yet.

What about now?

Do you honestly think ort would defend all his scumbuddies?

So, your argument is that Ort is defending Borgre, so you don't think they're scum together? That seems completely backwards to me; it's basically the bad kind of WIFOM. In reality, scum do defend each other all the time.

No, it's that he's defending Bogre, Sarag and Drake, all three who I think have a chance to be scum. If some of them end up being town, then yes, I think there's a chance ort is scum.

[Yosarian2]

Scum: Bogre, Sarag, ortolan, DraketheFake

Almost agree. I don't think ort is scum, at least not yet.

What about now?

Do you honestly think ort would defend all his scumbuddies?

So, your argument is that Ort is defending Borgre, so you don't think they're scum together? That seems completely backwards to me; it's basically the bad kind of WIFOM. In reality, scum do defend each other all the time.

No, it's that he's defending Bogre, Sarag and Drake, all three who I think have a chance to be scum. If some of them end up being town, then yes, I think there's a chance ort is scum.

You make my brains hurt.

If person A defended person B, C, and D, and only person B, C, and D, and all three of person B, C, and D flipped scum, you would consider that a point in person A's favor? Really?

Besides which, you seem to be taking Xyl's list with a level of seriousness that kind of perplexes me, considering we're on page 6 off day 1 here. Not that Xyl's list wasn't intended to be a serious attack, I'm sure it was, but it sounds like you're actually expecting him to name the entire scumgroup at this point of the game, which seems a little bizzare to me.

[Xylthixlm]

You make my brains hurt.

If person A defended person B, C, and D, and only person B, C, and D, and all three of person B, C, and D flipped scum, you would consider that a point in person A's favor? Really?

I've seen dumber. Which doesn't make it any less dumb.

Besides which, you seem to be taking Xyl's list with a level of seriousness that kind of perplexes me, considering we're on page 6 off day 1 here. Not that Xyl's list wasn't intended to be a serious attack, I'm sure it was, but it sounds like you're actually expecting him to name the entire scumgroup at this point of the game, which seems a little bizzare to me.

Stop realistically assessing my scumhunting capabilities

[Elmo]

Vaya, DragonsofSummer, rite, DraketheFake & Bogre have been prodded.

[Bogre]

Scum: Bogre, Sarag, ortolan, DraketheFake

No, it's that he's defending Bogre, Sarag and Drake, all three who I think have a chance to be scum. If some of them end up being town, then yes, I think there's a chance ort is scum.

You make my brains hurt.

If person A defended person B, C, and D, and only person B, C, and D, and all three of person B, C, and D flipped scum, you would consider that a point in person A's favor? Really?

I believe she's referencing the fact that it's unlikely he'd be so openly defending every scumbuddy of his.

[Slicey]

that except the 'she' part. >_>

[ortolan]

Both of these look like vicious implants of thoughts into someone else's mouth. They're basically just gotcha games in the very sense of the word - "GOTCHA! You were trying to make yourself look like a townie by feigning concern for your play in a position only a townie could be in!" or "GOTCHA! You were trying to figure out why I suspected you, and you got it right, which must mean you knew you were doing something scummy even though I didn't call you out on it, A HA!"

Despite desperate proclamations to the opposite, Xyl's opinion is fallible. I'd say only about half of his scumlist is right by now, and I'm think it's the Bogre/Ort half right now because of this.

You are pretending the "GOTCHA" part of the way you are expressing things has any meaning. What I have put forward is no different to putting forward a normal scumtell. Saying it is a "GOTCHA" argument, whatever that means, doesn't suddenly make it invalid, and me scummy for putting it forward. Sorry about that.

[ortolan]

oh, I get it, you mean the "vicious implants of thoughts into someone else's mouth." You mean speculating about the psychology behind what he is saying? Yer, that's a good way of catching scum. You should try it sometime. Oh wait, you are, you are analysing me in the same way. Which means you are equally guilty of using "GOTCHA" arguments. That makes you scummy by your own logic. Hint: speculating about people's motives isnt scummy, in and of itself.

[DragonsofSummer]

I agree with Orts last statement, but it doesn't make me feel any better about him.

Though I do think the fact that he is sticking with his statement instead of backtracking under the scrutiny of players besides myself is a point in his favor.