Mini 886 - Popcorn Mafia - Game over!

[Xylthixlm]

Dear Maemuki,

Please do something productive to scumhunting and stop assisting Nachomamma's attempt to attack me for other peoples' play.

Love,
Xyl

[Maemuki]

Dear Xyl,

maybe when I finish my catch-up post. Aka on Monday like I said some posts ago. kthx. And I'm still waiting for Yos.

Love,
Mae

[Nachomamma8]

RE: Your list: Town reads are composed of someone who agrees with everything you say, a confirmed townie, and yourself.

You just dismissed Yosarian2 as "someone who agrees with everything I say".

Yosarian2.

Hah.

Yosarian2 already answered this post for me.

@Nachomamma8: Who else do you you believe to be scum?

You're asking a question that I've already given the answer to.

Dear Maemuki,

Please do something productive to scumhunting and stop assisting Nachomamma's attempt to attack me for other peoples' play.

Love,
Xyl

Attacking you for other peoples' play? If you were half as protown as you seem to think, then maybe that accusation would be legit.

[Xylthixlm]

Attacking you for other peoples' play? If you were half as protown as you seem to think, then maybe that accusation would be legit.

This doesn't even make sense. It sounds like you're saying that what you attacked me for magically changes depending on how protown I am, but that's such obvious bullshit that it can't possibly be what you meant.

[Nachomamma8]

Attacking you for other peoples' play? If you were half as protown as you seem to think, then maybe that accusation would be legit.

This doesn't even make sense. It sounds like you're saying that what you attacked me for magically changes depending on how protown I am, but that's such obvious bullshit that it can't possibly be what you meant.

Um, no. In 573, you said that accusations of leading the town were basically finding active people who were scumhunting a lot and using it against them. I suggested that if you WERE extremely active and you WERE actually scumhunting, then you would have a point. You aren't, so your point is invalid.

[Xylthixlm]

I suggested that if you WERE extremely active and you WERE actually scumhunting, then you would have a point.

So... wait, let me see if I have this straight.

You say that I'm not extremely active and actually scumhunting, yet for some reason other people are following me, and this is somehow my fault.

Is that right?

Because if I'm not seriously misunderstanding this, you are accusing me of witchcraft.

Can we shoot Nachomamma yet?

[Nachomamma8]

You say that I'm not extremely active and actually scumhunting, yet for some reason other people are following me, and this is somehow my fault.

You're extremely active. You're not scumhunting.

Unless, of course, pointing to someone and saying "he's scum" is scumhunting.

[Xylthixlm]

You say that I'm not extremely active and actually scumhunting, yet for some reason other people are following me, and this is somehow my fault.

You're extremely active. You're not scumhunting.

Unless, of course, pointing to someone and saying "he's scum" is scumhunting.

I'm not scumhunting, people are just agreeing with me because I'm using mind control.

Gotcha.

[DragonsofSummer]

You say that I'm not extremely active and actually scumhunting, yet for some reason other people are following me, and this is somehow my fault.

You're extremely active. You're not scumhunting.

Unless, of course, pointing to someone and saying "he's scum" is scumhunting.

I'm not scumhunting, people are just agreeing with me because I'm using mind control.

Gotcha.

QFT!

Also this thread needs more bogre.

[Maemuki]

QFT!

Also this thread needs more bogre.

No, this thread needs more you! Seriously, where the heck have you been, why aren't you scumhunting by the way?

[ortolan]

QFT!

Also this thread needs more bogre.

No, this thread needs more you

dying

! Seriously, where the heck have you been, why aren't you scumhunting by the way?

fixed

[Nachomamma8]

You say that I'm not extremely active and actually scumhunting, yet for some reason other people are following me, and this is somehow my fault.

You're extremely active. You're not scumhunting.

Unless, of course, pointing to someone and saying "he's scum" is scumhunting.

I'm not scumhunting, people are just agreeing with me because I'm using mind control.

Gotcha.

Or, your using an Argument from Repetition...

@Dragons: If you're going to dodge a prod, you're going to have to try harder than that. Everyone sees how inactive you are...

[Sarag]

I've been doing some iso reads on a few people.

HowardRoark

There are a bunch of things that really aren't adding up with HowardRoark's posts.

He spends a bunch of effort calling Slicey scum:

Top 3? Zakeri, Bogre, Slicey/DraketheFake.

Slicey/DraketheFake: Gut.

I dislike both the ortolan and Slicey posts after the trigger was pulled.

Then inexplicably lists her as one of the most effective scumhunters:

Most effective could be any of the active players: Xylthixlm, Slicey, ortolan to name a few.

I don't think Slicey had even posted anything in that interval.

His position on Xylthixlm seems to change every time he mentions him:

Overall, Xylthixlm doesn't look good in hindsight.

And then post 450 where he lists Xyl as one of the "most effective" players.

Howard, do you think the most effective scumhunting is coming from scum players?

And in these two posts we have an outright contradiction:

@Bogre: Based on the scum lists, Xylthixlm has been pretty much accepted as town.

I don't like how he's stating that Xyl has been accepted as town. I don't think you can make the connection that agreeing with Xyl's scumlist is the same as finding him town.

I'm not saying it's about the scum lists. Try again.

Is it about the scum lists or not? If not, what is it about?

HackerHuck

I'd like to remind people of this case because it seems to have slipped away.

Bogre’s my second, but I think he's a bad target if we're wrong. He might do a decent job at finding scum as the shooter, but he'd need to take his sights off of me and Xyl before I'd feel really comfortable risking that. It's not so much that I don't think he's really scummy, it's that being wrong about Bogre would be like killing two townies.

Reading 284 through 287 you can see that Bogre mentioned a rite-Bogre scumpair theory once as a joke, and never pursued it. It was so minor he'd forgotten he'd done it.

So why was HackerHuck concerned about Bogre suspecting him and Xyl? One possibility is that he is scum buddies with Xyl and was overreacting to Bogre's comment. Ortolan suggested that he was pretending to overreact to a flippant comment in order to implicate Xyl if he were to be shot.

Either interpretation has HackerHuck as scum. I can't think of a town motivation for the way he acted, except just a weird fixation on that comment.

DragonsofSummer

I've never seen someone lurk so beautifully. He posts just enough to not get replaced and yet has barely said a thing all game. He has defended himself against ortolan's early attacks and quoted other people to agree with them on topics that don't involve scumhunting. All of his meagre content has been in direct response to questions from the gun bearer.

People have been commenting in an off-hand way about his lurking but it's time to bring him to task. If direct questions are all that he responds to, then I suggest that every player ask him a question. Here are some of my own:

1)Which comments of AlamasterGM's do you find wishy washy?
2)Which are overly defensive?
3)How is AlamasterGM's OMGUS on HR different to yours on ortolan?

---

On a broader note, I think we need to have less of the "X is scum, shoot now" type posts. Bogre (yesterday), Xylthixlm (he's toned it down a bit today) and ortolan are the prime offenders, but others have done this here and there. Don't get me wrong, some of these players (Xyl, ort) have been active and agressive, which I find pro-town. However, I don't think the overconfidence is helping. So many people were sure of Bogre, and that didn't work out so well. Sounding sure and being right are not the same thing.

This game is all about the gun bearer. If you think you have worked out who the scum are, you need to convince the gun bearer, not just throw down your theories and think you've done your job. You also need to revise. There is considerably more content now since some of these decisions were made, and it is just as valid as the early stuff.

We can also learn something from the way Vala played as gun bearer. She said she had decided on Bogre well before she actually shot him, and she deliberately used all her time to pressure other people and try to elicit responses and more data on other people. That was great. However, she made one mistake there and that was not to threaten Bogre at the very end and try to get more from him. Ultimately the person you need the most data on is the one you think you'll shoot. You need to check if you're right. I think the gun bearer should use that last minute flurry to get responses from several people, the top suspect included.

[AlmasterGM]

The nacho case on Xyl is terribad. I'm not sure whether this means he's scum or just dumb.

Alamaster 381 - what do you mean when you say I'm "kicking" offense?

Kicking offense refers to when you say something offensive (e.g., scumhunting) and then backpedal on it.

Please do something productive to scumhunting and stop assisting Nachomamma's attempt to attack me for other peoples' play.

I played a game with her awhile back and she played this same game as scum (e.g., post but not scumhunt at all / lurk). I'd be interested to know if this fits her town meta as well.

No, this thread needs more you! Seriously, where the heck have you been, why aren't you scumhunting by the way?

fixed

I agree with both of these. Shoot ortolan already. He's scum. I'd also be satisfied with offing DOS or HR (HR because 1) I agree with Yosarian2's case and 2) HR isn't doing anything other than saying "hay guy, look at that awesome scumtell I found on Sarg.")

[Maemuki]

This thread needs more:

a. DoS,
b. Yosarian2
c. Bogre

Now.

I played a game with her awhile back and she played this same game as scum (e.g., post but not scumhunt at all / lurk). I'd be interested to know if this fits her town meta as well.

Hey, it's not like you were Mr. I-can-scumhunt-and-be-active on that game either. And actually it kind of does, just ask Xyl! And I'm waiting for Yos2 to answer my question.

Aaaahm, Sarag? Why are you throwing random accusations on Xyl, if you had a town read on him earlier?

[Xylthixlm]

The nacho case on Xyl is terribad. I'm not sure whether this means he's scum or just dumb.

Don't forget that nacho replaced rewq, who replaced DraketheFake.

[Xylthixlm]

AlamasterGM, what do you think of this?

Bogre - please listen to Ortolan and put him out of his misery. He hasn't done any scumhunting since the game began and it doesn't seem to be getting any better.

[Nachomamma8]

The nacho case on Xyl is terribad. I'm not sure whether this means he's scum or just dumb.

What did you disagree with?

Also, what do you think of Sarag's most recent post?

[Yosarian2]

None of that is a scumtell.

Why...did you just answer a question that was not directed to you?

Because Xyl was being attacked for an obviously bad reason by both you and Nacho, and I'm trying to figure out if that means you and Nacho didn't understand mafia theory, or if it has more to do with one or both of your alignments.

Now explain this to me. Why is "leading the town" a scumtell? And why, when I explain to you that it's not, was your only reaction to criticize me for "answering a question directed at someone else" rather then respond to what I actually said?

[Yosarian2]

You're extremely active. You're not scumhunting.

?

You're going to need to back this up, I think. I think it's pretty obvious that Xyl has made strong logical cases for several people being scum over the course of the game. That dosn't actually mean Xyl is town, of course; he certainly has the ability to fake that as scum. But I really think I need to you explain why he's "not scumhunting".

[Sarag]

I don't think leading the town is a scum tell.

Aaaahm, Sarag? Why are you throwing random accusations on Xyl, if you had a town read on him earlier?

Eh what? Where did I accuse Xyl?

[Xylthixlm]

So why was HackerHuck concerned about Bogre suspecting him and Xyl?

One possibility is that he is scum buddies with Xyl and was overreacting to Bogre's comment.

Ortolan suggested that he was pretending to overreact to a flippant comment in order to implicate Xyl if he were to be shot.

Either interpretation has HackerHuck as scum. I can't think of a town motivation for the way he acted, except just a weird fixation on that comment.

[Sarag]

Oh right. That's not a serious accusation. I was systematically examining the possible explanations for HackerHuck's response. My point is that the analysis suggests HackerHuck is scum, your involvement is incidental and unimportant.

[Nachomamma8]

You're extremely active. You're not scumhunting.

?

You're going to need to back this up, I think. I think it's pretty obvious that Xyl has made strong logical cases for several people being scum over the course of the game. That dosn't actually mean Xyl is town, of course; he certainly has the ability to fake that as scum. But I really think I need to you explain why he's "not scumhunting".

He has made several good cases for people being scum throughout the game, sure. But for every 1 good post he makes, he has 10 more that are either advice, witty retort that doesn't really add anything to the game, or spam.

[Yosarian2]

You're extremely active. You're not scumhunting.

?

You're going to need to back this up, I think. I think it's pretty obvious that Xyl has made strong logical cases for several people being scum over the course of the game. That dosn't actually mean Xyl is town, of course; he certainly has the ability to fake that as scum. But I really think I need to you explain why he's "not scumhunting".

He has made several good cases for people being scum throughout the game, sure. But for every 1 good post he makes, he has 10 more that are either advice, witty retort that doesn't really add anything to the game, or spam.

So, if he's made several good cases for people being scum (especally when he's made more cases them many of the other people in the game), then how is he "not scumhunting"?

Are "advice", or "witty retorts" scumtells, if he is also scumhunting? (Also, I don't really think any of the posts he's made are "spam", I think most or all of them serve a purpose).