Mini 1683: <<11 PM>> [THE GAME IS OVER] [[BUT WHO WINS?!]]

[BlueMoonRising]

Ozgin, you've voted for me more than once, but you expect me to believe you haven't wondered about me enough to target me?

[TellTaleHeart]

Well I can't really engage that line of thought wanderer as it involves an ongoing game. :/

[TellTaleHeart]

FFS guys, if I was right since Day 3 and you pushed me to vote other players I'm going to be so mad :/
Anyway, TTH is posting as Heartless in another game we're in and here she's not doing anything. I do not want to vote yet but I'm strongly inclined to lynch TTH today.

Ozgin, just in case of a cc from TTH: who were your targets?

BMR: it's lylo. Can you please try and find some more time to post your thoughts? Why are you now inclined to think it's TTH? And what makes you think I could be scum?

:/
What you're mad that the endgame you made for yourself has a small chance of not working out?

VOTE: Wanderer-nl

[Wanderer-nl]

No CC so phew, I've been right about Ozgin
BMR: check what a watcher does and reconsider your remark. Pretty sure you're town because of that though because I believe scum was watcher-hunting (I would have died isf she wasn't, you see, I'm obvtown. I could have easily jumped several wagons throughout which I didn't) (And why would I conftown Suzune and then kill her the next night?)

VOTE: TTH

[Wanderer-nl]

So TTH, how do you feel about the cases on Dramonic and Suzune?

Well, I'm town reading both of them so it should stand to reason that I don't think they're great. I'm not sure what you're

really

getting at and you should just say it.

If you're asking for my critique of the "cases" on them, I really don't have any since I'm not that familiar with them off the top of my head. I recall murmurings of dramonic's slips, which I don't put much stock in. In both instances, there were readily available and innocuous explanations for why dramonic said what he said. I could go back and try to hunt down what people have said about them, but that will be time taken away from looking at Klingon's ISO again and giving that thought so I'd prefer not to.

If you're asking for why I was townreading them, I made my initial townreads based off of a general behavioral profile and the principle that scum aren't going to be overly aggressive in a multiball game. That means in all of BMR's, dramonic's, and Suzune's ISOs, I saw something where I thought, "They're probably not scum because this is just inviting a nightkill."

I already kind of said it but what I was getting at is that you barely engage with other players.

I'm not asking for your critique, but right now it feels like you are completely ignoring what's being posted about Suzune and Dramonic. Since you started out with townreads on Dramonic, Suzune and BMR, I'd expect at least one player that made points against any of those 3 would raise questions for you.
Your early townreads are based on something that one can easily change their mind on. Are you still townreading those 3?

I already told dramonic I think he's basing his Suzune case on a faulty premise (i.e. she'll push a bullshitty case). I also think people are getting too worked up over nitpicky things in dramonic's posting and I've said as much.

Ehm, where? All you said to Dramonic was that he's using a single ball mentality in a multiball game.
718 Yes it was pretty clear what you meant by this. So how do you actually feel about the players that were 'nitpicking' that claim?

Don't be cute. And please note the

future tense.

Despite the (flattering) notions otherwise, I'm not a scumhunting god and

need a minute

.

I was pointing to yesterday when Dramonic and Soren got wagoned and you voted Soren saying you preferred this to Dramonic. That, to me, looks like what you just described to me.
11 days is a lot of minutes (and I'm not being cute here), but sure, have another minute.

@Suzune: it was for reactions. Sadly, only you and TTH herself reacted to it. The others are still either lurking or crying over Dramonic being an ass. TTH's reaction made me keep my vote on her.

And do I have an incomplete iso for TTH or something? Because for me it shows 18 posts, of which one actually contains a clear analysis of another player's posts but that's it.

After I read Pap's iso I've been thinking some more on the no-lynching thing. It's very scummy to want a no-lynch in this setup, because as town we start with almost equal amount of information as scum. And discussion is the only way we're going to find out who they are. And flips lead to associations. Since it's reasonable both scumteams target town, we won't have flips while scum get rid of our BP.
Papi and Dramonic both wanted no-lynch, that makes me believe the last scum is between Dramonic and TTH.

@RC: From the 11 posts Papi made there isn't much to go on. Flames never posted. So there barely is something to find. However, 204 is the only time Papi mentions/adresses Klingon and to me it feels like he was talking to his buddy there. Also, he was for no-lynching, see 296, but I must add that he did say he was fine either way.

I can't work with a site that takes minutes to load I'll try again later.

Things are working better now so I'm going to try again.
Papi shows up in Klingon's iso a whopping amount of 3 times. 2 times in her readslist in the null-pile (330 and 406) and a vc (386) No interactions at all. Klingon interacted with everybody else, though it seemed to also be dependent on the activity of the other player. Soren and ASP show up a lot less than others.
Flames did post btw, once, to say he was reading.
I feel Klingon and Papi/Flames/TTH could be buddies based on this.

[BlueMoonRising]

Yeah I think it is tth.

vote tth

[Wanderer-nl]

Can Ozgin be prodded please?

Ozgin: What are your thoughts?

[Ozgin]

I was afk for the 9th and a bit of the day before because birthday and graduation party, both for me. Sorry. Give me a minute to make a reads post here.

[Wanderer-nl]

Congratulations on both! (I think I forgot this earlier)

[Ozgin]

I think TTH and Wanderer are both voting the wrong player. And since I'm clear via lack of CC, I think it's very obvious who I'm talking about.

[Ozgin]

The fact that TTH didn't CC me and take advantage of BMR's lack of understanding is interesting. The fact that TTH didn't CC when now is the only time that anyone could is interesting, also. The most interesting, though, is that since you asked about a CC, Wanderer, and since TTH didn't CC, AND since BMR is the only one of you three who threw doubt on my claim, the person who I've scumread for a while is still the scummiest of the day so far.

[Ozgin]

Wanderer wouldn't have asked for me to say who I've watched in the event of TTH's if he was going to CC, so he had no intention of CCing me. The fact that I'm uncc'd is the weirdest, though, because it makes me wonder if wanderer never planned on CCing me at all and may in fact be the last scum.

Or maybe TTH just was too lazy to make a list of people who he watched, so he didn't bother to cc.

Gah, thinking is hard.

[Wanderer-nl]

Ozgin: I messed up when I made that post and when I realized I wanted to see if anyone responded to it. You sort of did now. We're techincally in mylo, we can no-lynch and have another day. I was wrong with that and I shouldn't have asked for a claim. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure we can figure it out today and don't need to no-lynch anyway.

UNVOTE: for now.

I agree with you about BMR. I kind of given up on him though, but maybe if me and TTH voted BMR it will help make him post more? Probably doesn't have value when I suggest it and also I'm still more convinced it's TTH because I'd expect scum to know exactly what a watcher (or any PR generally speaking) does. And BMR already had plenty heat about her first set-up mistake, and I'm not sure if he would risk that during mylo/lylo.
Can you respond to the posts I made on TTH? What do you think about the link I made between her slot and Klingon's? I've recently quoted most of the relevant posts so if you trust me you won't even have to dig through my iso to find it.

[Wanderer-nl]

Oh gosh 'her' should be 'his' sorry about that.

[Ozgin]

Wait, you expect scum to know exactly what a watcher (and other PRs) does and you didn't vote for BMR when he failed to acknowledge we all had a conditional BP AND when he said he didn't believe my claim because he didn't understand how the watcher works?

o_O

And what exactly do you want me to address? You made a wall of quotes of instances where you referred to TTH.

[Wanderer-nl]

Eh yeah... I mean scum would be aware of the set-up and BMR appears not to be.

Also, I just realized there are 2 watchers left. I'm guessing scum-watcher wouldn't claim, and town watcher should imo cc the scum watcher. Bah I hate this. I was so sure of things at the start of this day.

BMR, TTH you guys need to post more and Ozgin be more elaborate in your thoughts please.

[TellTaleHeart]

The fact that TTH didn't CC me and take advantage of BMR's lack of understanding is interesting. The fact that TTH didn't CC when now is the only time that anyone could is interesting, also. The most interesting, though, is that since you asked about a CC, Wanderer, and since TTH didn't CC, AND since BMR is the only one of you three who threw doubt on my claim, the person who I've scumread for a while is still the scummiest of the day so far.

You're over thinking it. The endgame was engineered to give wanderer maximum options and she's taking advantage of it.

[Wanderer-nl]

Well, if you're going to stand by that opinion then it's easy.
VOTE: TTH
This is not coming off again.

[Wanderer-nl]

Ozgin, why would BMR vote TTH over me? He voted after you posted your targets and TTH was your last one. Wouldn't it be scum's best bet to vote with conftown's last townread instead of against? BMR is town.

[TellTaleHeart]

Ozgin, why would BMR vote TTH over me?

Because he voted me yesterday. :/

Nice to see the vote being dictated by the circumstance instead of an actual read.

[TellTaleHeart]

Nix that. Day before that. You're still being obtuse.

[Wanderer-nl]

I know I shouldn't take all that personally but I am. Let me know when this game is over please.

[Ozgin]

Well if that's the level of effort I'm getting from both of you, meh, whatever.

For the record, I'm pretty sure this is wrong. But there's no momentum, and you guys are too apathetic. In fact, right now, I'm thinking it might be you, Wanderer. But meh.

VOTE: TTH

[Wanderer-nl]

I'm convinced it's the right lynch but I hate this hammer.

[Ozgin]

Hate it all you want, I'm tired of dealing with apathy. You were apathetic, BMR isn't even posting, and TTH didn't listen to me either. So if TTH is scum, good. If BMR is scum, oh well. I'm tired of armwrestling players who just don't give a fuck. End of story.