Mini 1766: SCP Foundation Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Kelbris

You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you?

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Beeboy

For trying to vote an Unlynchable claim and wasting his vote like that.

[Alchemist21]

@Mod; My vote should be on Beeboy, not Kelbris.

I remember scumRC being aggro, but I can't remember if or when I played with Town RC to know if this is out of place for their Town game.

[Alchemist21]

Didn't Beeboy say he was kidding about the Mason claim already? He's not still trying to say he is one is he?

[Alchemist21]

You weren't. doesn't mean you weren't trying to pull shit.

I'll leave you alone under the condition that you visit us tonight. If you fail to do so, and we'll know, you get autolynched.

I am not a mason/friendly neighbor.

Here's the retraction.

[Alchemist21]

Snarky living up to his username I see.

[Alchemist21]

@scourge, I didn't like his reaction to Snarky's claim. That coupled with his early attempt at a Mason claim make me think he's scum.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: ARS

Decoy wagon on a dead slot feels scummy.

What do you mean by this?

[Alchemist21]

What do you mean by this?

Your a dead slot, he was trying to create a wagon on you.
Simple logic.

I see. And what do you make of E&A following immediately despite just having their vote on ARS previously?

[Alchemist21]

Just toy with both assumptions for a moment? ARS is either Town or scum. What would you make of E&A's vote in each case?

Also was there anything else that contributed to your ARS scumread other than the vote on me?

[Alchemist21]

@Scourge, Why is Beeboy Towny to you? You are correct that I was trying to get into his mind to try to better understand him, and the biggest impression I got is that he seemed evasive in answering my questions (shos seems to be acting similarly to you here). The lesser impression I got was that he was trying to protect the E&A slot by not wanting to discuss it, and then tying its alignment to yours. From my POV, if either slot that voted me is scum, it's more likely E&A for how they immediately followed you after they were voting for you, and it's HIGHLY unlikely that you two are scum together as Beeboy suggested because it seems like a pretty bad move for scum to tie their votes like that.

[Alchemist21]

If you have a problem with our vote on you why are you taking it up with everyone besides us?

It's more an issue of Beeboy's stance on the matter didn't pan out. He scumread scourge due to the vote but was hesitant to comment on your vote that immediately followed. I think if he was looking for scum intent, he'd see it more in your vote rather than Scourge's. I do think Beeboy flipping scum increases the chance that you are scum, but this is mainly because of how Beeboy behaved and not your actual vote.

[Alchemist21]

Hey everyone, vite Scourge bacause [case]

Amidointhisrite?


Beeboy is probtown

What makes Beeboy probTown? You were hard scumreading him before, and then you suddenly changed your mind. Was it something you saw from Beeboy or from Scourge?

[Alchemist21]

I can see shos' response coming from Town that didn't want to go into the details of an associative read with their scumread (Scourge) but is willing to discuss it with others.

[Alchemist21]

Err, yeah I might have spoke too soon. I can't find any post shos would be talking about in scourge's ISO.

@shos, What posts made you think Scourge was riding Beeboy's wagon?

[Alchemist21]

^Which hydra are you again?

[Alchemist21]

Irao's posts just then come off as forced to me. I need to ISO them when I get a chance because they've been off my radar until now.

[Alchemist21]

i'm interested in your thoughts on iraon, Alchemist. what scum agenda do you see in his posts just then?

To me it looked like he was trying to come up with any kind of reason for scumreading you. If you're Town, then Iraon could be nervous or hasty scum who doesn't want your wagon to lose traction. I plan to go back through his ISO some time today to get a deeper look at him.

[Alchemist21]

I think E&A are telling the truth about trying to see if a CW would form. It makes sense in the context of them voting with the player they were just voting because two votes on the wagon gave enough starting support that others could have joined, but it was built in a way that they could have backed off if needed/wanted. The main flaw to me is that they thought people would sheep naked votes instead of supplying some kind of reason to form the counterwagons, but if the plan was to back off at some point then maybe supplying reasons would just open a can of worms later down the road.

[Alchemist21]

Ok, I've gone through Ira's ISO.

@Ira; How much of their thoughts and opinions do you think Town should express?

[Alchemist21]

Ok, I've gone through Ira's ISO.

@Ira; How much of their thoughts and opinions do you think Town should express?

I don't feel like I should answer this question.

You wouldn't know it, but I don't even have a single vote on me right now. That must be the flaw in Elsa and Anna's play!

Elsa and Anna, would you please link me to the referenced instance in which you did something similar?

You should answer it; it will help me try to understand you better.

[Alchemist21]

Well there is an inconsistency here. Up until your recent post about E&A your posts seem to only give us your conclusions and not how you arrived at them (the explanations that are there are either vague or just agreeing with somebody). If you believe that Townies should express their opinions because it makes them eaiser to read then I think your posts would be more fleshed out than they are so that others could read you as Town.

VOTE: iraonavp

I was actually expecting an answer similar to "only what's necessary to avoid giving scum more info than they already have" as I know a few players think that way, and was going to look back at any of your previous Town games to see if they were consistent to your play here. I still might do that, but the contrast between your play and your philosophy on Town play makes me think you're scum who hasn't wanted to say much. The E&A post being the exception to your posting so far makes me think you're scum who thought they had an excellent opportunity to scumread a Townie.

[Alchemist21]

@Ira, What doesn't logically follow is why you would willfully play suboptimally. I can get the not having much to say part, but you seem to be deliberately holding back your thoughts and that seems contrary to how you think Town should play.

I also specifically said I wanted to review your Town games because scum meta can be manipulated. I guess I can infer that your Town posting is generally lax, but it kind of bothers me and adds to my suspicion that you specifically chose to say this isn't like your scum game rather than say this is similar to your Town games. I'll admit this bit may be due to confbias.

Finally, the issue isn't really about effort as much as showing your thought process.

[Alchemist21]

I was not trying to bait you or twist your words. Had I gotten the kind of answer I expected and seen that confirmed by your previous Town games I would have thought you to be more likely Town than not. That may still change depending on what those games look like, but with the way you keep responding I'm doubtful.

[Alchemist21]

Also, the difference between showing your thoughts vs effort is akin to telling me 5+5=10 as opposed to telling me y'=8

[Alchemist21]

* y'=3x+8

[Alchemist21]

I didn't realize we were this close to Deadline. It doesn't feel like it's been a week since the game started.

Still liking Ira and Beeboy for scum.

I like ARS, E&A, and Snarky for Town.

Klingon's a milder Town read.

Shos is more null than anything, but his interaction with ARS and the latter reason for it seems like a Town point in his favor to me.

I need to look back through everyone else.

[Alchemist21]

I couldn't get it up as well as I want.

Maybe you should see a doctor about that.

[Alchemist21]

If I had made the above post I would be scumread so hard that players not in this game would leave their own games to come in here and vote for me.

There's something that is very wrong about this quote related to the implication that I'm being treated differently for some reason, but I'm not sure how to explain this.

My post was fine anyways.

VOTE: Klingoncelt

You aren't being treated differently, but the fact is that you

expect

to be treated differently by way of us allowing your bad posts and AtE to prevent your being voted.

Saying that Alchemist21 manipulated you into saying things that you didn't want to say was the big mistake. Not "a" big mistake, "the" big mistake. See, I've played some games with Alch too. He's a clever one, as Town vs Scum, he's great. He's dangerous as Scum vs Town too.

So, let's say you're today's lynch. You flip Scum it looks pretty good (but by no means confirmable) for Ank. You flip Town, Ank (or I) likely gets lynched tomorrow. Associatives have been established.

When have you ever seen my scum game?

[Alchemist21]

Rereading the game up to page 6. I didn't realize Raskol had voted Snarky for his claim before even Beeboy, and it puts him on my radar, but I guess it's a little more understandable if he wanted to test the claim, and there was other stuff that makes Beeboy worse.

In the other hand, on the issuenof Snarky's claim I wouldn't be against pip's suggestion of a vig test if there is one. The Vig's more likely to hit Town N1 anyway, and we should be playing as if we don't have a Town-sourced Night Kill, so if the Bulletproof part of Snakry's claim is true, a vig shot there validates the claim and Town doesn't really lose much (arguably it gains information if it validates the claim).

As for the unlynchable aspect, his claim is basically that Town automatically loses what would otherwise be a lylo situation. So we should treat what would be the day before lylo as actual lylo, and in the event we're wrong but the game's not over, then Snarky is the unquestionable lynch for the next Day.

[Alchemist21]

Well this is the first I'm hearing of this, but thank you. :p

[Alchemist21]

Up through Page 10. I initially missed Raskol lying about his meta knowledge of E&A. At this point I'd probably lynch him before I lynch Beeboy.

[Alchemist21]

Has anyone seen RC or FA use AtE as scum before? Personally I'm pretty inexperienced with these players

Deathtunneling on someone because you don't like what they did a game before is absurd and I don't see why they would do this when they could have /out ed when seeing the playerlist. I think town RC would be more inclined to just ignore beeboy rather than make a big deal out of this, and I've heard of him using gambits like this (especially involving AtE) as scum for towncred. Furthermore since it's between RC and beeboy and I don't think FA is involved I don't know why FA would be fine with this if they were town, whereas if scum it makes sense for her to stay silent and let RC try this gambit.

The tldr is it's either really reckless townplay or a scum AtE play and I see the latter as more likely.

I wanted to see his reaction. I feel if he was town he would have addressed me directly rather than saying what he did.

I mean I could be wrong but you don't learn without making a few mistakes!

First he asks whether anyone knows the heads and if they use AtE as scum, claiming he doesn't know them well. Then just 4 posts later he's making claims about their meta and saying it was a reaction test. E&A and Scourge both noticed this when it happened and called him on it. I don't really buy it being a reaction test, and I've seen scum try to lie about their meta knowledge of someone before.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Beeboy

For trying to vote an Unlynchable claim and wasting his vote like that.

@Scourge, Why is Beeboy Towny to you? You are correct that I was trying to get into his mind to try to better understand him, and the biggest impression I got is that he seemed evasive in answering my questions (shos seems to be acting similarly to you here). The lesser impression I got was that he was trying to protect the E&A slot by not wanting to discuss it, and then tying its alignment to yours. From my POV, if either slot that voted me is scum, it's more likely E&A for how they immediately followed you after they were voting for you, and it's HIGHLY unlikely that you two are scum together as Beeboy suggested because it seems like a pretty bad move for scum to tie their votes like that.

If you have a problem with our vote on you why are you taking it up with everyone besides us?

It's more an issue of Beeboy's stance on the matter didn't pan out. He scumread scourge due to the vote but was hesitant to comment on your vote that immediately followed. I think if he was looking for scum intent, he'd see it more in your vote rather than Scourge's. I do think Beeboy flipping scum increases the chance that you are scum, but this is mainly because of how Beeboy behaved and not your actual vote.

All my reasons for wanting Beeboy lynched.

[Alchemist21]

{}
{Elsa and Anna, , Raskolnikov, Extrapolated Eagle}
{Iraonavp, AristoCow}
{Holly and Sugar, shos, Alchemist21}
{Klingoncelt, A Real Scourge}
{kelbris, SnarkySnowman, }

ok you don't get lynched today

This also makes me want to lynch Rask before Beeboy. It looks like Rask doesn't want Beeboy dead since Rask is at the top of his Townreads. This actually makes me start to doubt these two are scum together though.

[Alchemist21]

@Kelbris can I get an updated reads list from you?

@Aristocow, same for you. With reasons, please.

[Alchemist21]

I'd like a list from Dream Man too but it might be too early for him so I'm willing to let that go.

Those 3 people are still in my null pile, Ira, Rask, and Beeboy are in my scum pile, and everyone else is varying degrees of Town.

[Alchemist21]

Klingon doesn't seem the same as she did in YCBA, and hasn't seemed to lie about meta like she did in that game.

Scourge's wagon seems to source back to 181 which I don't see how people took that as scummy, and it's an agreeable post imo.

Eagle's playing the same way he did in YCBA, and he's using that as a reference for what he's looking for in scum in this game which indicates he's coming from a Town perspective.

Pretty sure I've explained all my other Townreads at some point.

[Alchemist21]

There's no way these two are scum together.

Which two?

[Alchemist21]

Ira, Rask, and Beeboy are in my scum pile

This is bullshit.

And wny would that be bullshit? I already suspected you and Beeboy, and then Rask after I read back through the game.

[Alchemist21]

The current pages suggest to me that iraonavp is the best place for my vote. I follow Alchemist21's arguments and am inclined to agree with them.

Eagle, I have noticed your post 557. Would you mind explaining why you think that iraonavp is town? I'd like to understand how you can tolerate his protests to your Raskolnikov arguments. Have you ever considered that they're scum together?

I'll say that I'm pretty sure you replaced into a scum-aligned slot to start with.

Do you agree with Extrapolated Eagle, and think that Raskolnikov is scum-aligned?

Actually, we don't have time for this, only 1.5 days.

VOTE: Dream Man

Have you ever considered that they [iraonavp and Raskolnikov]'re scum together?

Would you mind elaborating about Raskol lying about his meta knowledge?

please quicklynch thanks

Ira, Rask, and Beeboy are in my scum pile

This is bullshit.

My question to all three of these quotes is "Why?"

Why do you think Dream Man replaced into a scum slot?
Why should we quicklynch him for those 2 questions?
Why is my scum pile bullshit?

[Alchemist21]

Oh my gawd,

Dream guy are you British?

I don't like his nonchalante talk in response to the wagon on him. It makes me think he's scum, it feels fake as hell

Why does it read fake? He's had that same tone since his first post.

[Alchemist21]

Eagle, what is your actual read on Ira? Are they someone you would consider voting today?

[Alchemist21]

Less than 8 hours left. We need a lynch

NOW!

[Alchemist21]

UNVOTE:

I'll be the hammer if Rask joins the wagon. Actually, even if someone else votes to L-1 I'll be the hammer.

[Alchemist21]

A more pressing issue is who's going to out the wagon to L-1. Rask seems like he left the thread, and I don't know if anyone else is on that could do it.

[Alchemist21]

@Rask, I'd rather you vote Ira.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Iraonivp

[Alchemist21]

GG everyone. E&A's PGO gambit was a pretty good move imo. I know if I had done that and got lynched D2 or even D3 after that I'd probably be mad.