Mini 1766: SCP Foundation Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Raskolnikov]

It was around a year ago, site-███ opened. The pinnacle of the Foundation's efforts, the magnum opus of some genius I'll never meet, and it probably cost more than a small country. Modern design, the latest security features, and substantial recreational facilities. That's a different facility. One that's nothing like this shitty hole in the ground we're stuck in. It was around a year ago, our troubles started. Our best transferred, anyone with seniority or friends in admin got accepted. Bastards. Don't get me wrong, things here were already no paradise but it was manageable... until we were forsaken. With the regional hq moved to ███ there came a great deal of 'changes' here in ██. Staff reduced to a minimum, funding slashed and next to no oversight followed marking the beginning of endless months of neglect. Left here with these monsters were the sorriest bunch of SOBs I've ever seen; reassignment left a personnel with an absurd concentration of naivete, incompetence, and unwillingness to work with others ('team players' were valued). I was among them, of course. Was still optimistic back then. Proud to be 'saving the world', glad I could feel 'special' doing what had to be done. What an idiot I was. Of course you don't fully realize the implications of the job until it's too late to back out; there's no quitting early in this field. You'll get a psych evaluation, inevitably fail and get locked up for being a 'security hazard'. Supposedly it wasn't always like that, but a decade or two ago there was a particularly nasty incident-██, ████████████████████ and pretty much the entire staff wanted out. That's the Foundation for you; a disaster like that and what they make sure to prevent is having to deal with that much turnover again. Not that it matters much, I don't know how many of us could handle the outside now anyways. Yeah, though they don't tell you any details I will give them credit; they do make it rather obvious that there was immense risk involved and no turning back if you accept. Even so, I wanted more. I could have been humble and had a nice quiet life, perhaps a family, and lived to old age. But that option is long gone now, and I have only my hubris to blame.

With the transfers came vacancies; plenty of people were promoted into positions they were under-qualified for. I was a lowly researcher with level 1 clearance at the time; speciality ███████████████. Just over the course of a few months I was promoted to level 3, a process that usually involves years if not decades of experience and a fair bit of proficiency, and I had neither. I still have no clue what I'm doing. Stick to the safer SCPs, try not to poke them too much and write some bullshit down I hope nobody ends up reading. Last review I was recommended for demotion but I assume it never came because the brass has no one else to throw in this hellhole. I would be glad to have less responsibility, to go back to less stressful grunt work. But as bad as I am I don't think I could trust anyone else here being assigned to these SCPs. The former researchers didn't leave that much in the way of documentation, but through luck and the occasional class D (some of my colleagues have taken to calling them 'sacrifices') I've learned just enough to keep myself alive for now. But it's a large facility, there's always some manner of crisis going on that we can barely contain. But even on relatively peaceful days one can never quite shake this feeling of foreboding. Everyone's time is limited, but in site-██ you're given a reminder daily. Even the building itself serves to reinforce this constant thought, it permeates through structure and air alike as some sort of sinister stench. Yellow wallpaper peeling, leaks of substances unknown from the ceilings, doors which don't always actually lock. The worst is when your card is rejected, sometimes you have to fiddle with it for a good 20 minutes or call admin for override. Usually it isn't actually the inconvenience which bothers you but rather being left alone with nothing to do but contemplate your life and all the regrets that have brought you to this point. This one time though, we were running a test in room-██, and ██████████████ SCP-███ ██████████ ███████████████████████████████ door jammed. ████████████████████████████████████ chunks █████ ████ everywhere ███████████████████████████ the cleaning took weeks ████████ ██████████ poor steve.

I didn't think it was possible but eventually you get used it all, desensitized from the daily horrors and the endless torrent of words from the intercom blend together into a mush you subconsciously process. There are these periods of lucidity; what am I doing again? Oh yeah I'm walking to sector-█ because I heard code ██████ a couple of minutes ago. Or when you realize you've just done something so abhorrent the previous you or any normal member of society would wretch at the prospect of. It wears you down, working under the foundation's utilitarianism. I have now a firm belief man is not meant for ends-justify-the-means thinking, that sanity inevitably leaves anyone who goes down this road. Everyone who comes to work within these walls is transformed into something less than human. Everyone takes on a pallor, either puts on a lot of weight or ends up unnaturally thin, and carries themselves with a demeanour of a small rodent. And it's us, a handful of insane husks stumbling through this dark asylum, who are left here keeping the forgotten horrors of the world under lock. It was only a matter of time.

[Raskolnikov]

So within hours we have a mason claim (unless she's kidding) and an unkillable claim. I hate both you.

[Raskolnikov]

Especially if you're unkillable because you could have eaten a NK if you're actually town.

VOTE: snarky

[Raskolnikov]

I don't actually believe you but that sounds like a fun thing to do regardless

[Raskolnikov]

I knew this day would come. If you intend to keep the nightmares of the world locked up, a skeleton crew of neurotics given minimal funding isn't going to last long. Surprised we made this far all things considered.

It was a few weeks ago that reports of chaos insurgency activities within our area came in. They're always more active around this time, personally I have no clue why they prefer the winter. That's the least puzzling thing about them though. The whole concept doesn't make any sense. How does a group that idolizes chaos and anarchy even form, let alone coordinate actions well enough to be a threat to the Foundation? How can they control SCPs with minimal resources; we have countless which individually have the power to destroy the Foundation if loose. Why could they possibly hope to accomplish through their destruction? Of course us researchers aren't privy to the details of this shadow war but we are trained in case of the occasional breach and warned at times of 'elevated' threat. They're spoken of in whispers; showing too much interest in the group gets you the attention of internal affairs. Even so it's a concern during these otherwise quiet months, and our environment lends itself well to paranoia of all sorts.

The details themselves are hazy. I remember the place was falling apart. Now I know I'm always thinking that, but this was more than usual, I swear. People were neglecting to follow even basic protocols as well as trying bizarre new experiments. I really don't know what they expected would happen when they played hide-and-seek with SCP-███, but I'll probably never find out now. At some point a particularly violent Euclid class SCP, ███, was let out and the facility went into complete disarray. I was with SCP-█████ at the time; luckily due to the nature of this SCP's containment I was in a rather safe, even comfortable position for the entirety of the lockdown. Whatever happened during those few days beyond my sealed doors I may never find out. Under the dim emergency lighting day and night blended together and the experience was one bizarre dream as my imagination worked to interpret the cacophony surrounding me. Among the screams I've heard many sounds unlike anything I had heard before, and several so strange I didn't think they could even exist, which sounds quite insane but I don't know how else to describe it.

When the dust settled I was rounded up with the SCP I was with, and thrown in with 12 others. Some of these 'beings' were SCPs themselves, though others were various members of staff who were each carrying an SCP. Three 'doctors' greeted us, I recognized one of them as a former head researcher from this site. They were impatient; clearly they wanted to get out of this backwater and back to their cushy jobs as heads of their various departments. At least level 4 clearance from each, and they rubbed it in. One even suggested just getting rid of all of us just because he didn't feel like dealing with this 'headache'. Douchebags. We were told some basic details; the chaos insurgency caused this breach and even to this moment hid among us. They ask us to produce the insurgents to them, one each day, and that we'd be free when the last has been taken. Now, I've been working for the Foundation long enough to know this isn't really so simple. If they didn't know which of us were insurgents how could they trust us to find out essentially at random? No, it's another Foundation experiment, a test. Even the 'reward' is probably a lie; there's a good chance we'll all be terminated when the experiment is finished and they've learned all they wanted to. I assume they're testing the chaos insurgents' abilities to deceive and blend in with innocents? Or maybe they're struck here overseeing the facilities repair and decided to use us for some entertainment. Even so I have to try to 'win' this game, there isn't really anything else I really can do at this point. For better or ill we're all committed to this hunt for the traitors in our midst. I only hope my demise will come in the day to a clean execution, rather than in the night from whatever horrors the SCPs can inflict.

[Raskolnikov]

I thought that if anyone would appreciate literature it one who calls themselves Aristophanes. I suppose you are merely a dilettante? A pretender? An errant, craven pander of ill stock and disreputable house? Bah!

VOTE: Aristo

Seriously though.

[Raskolnikov]

Ugh these claims

I think VT claiming mason to try to eat a NK is unlikely in a role madness game like this

I think it might actually be worth running him up and either lynching him if hes scum or outing the other mason

I think if scum goes for masons it isn't the worst thing in the world in a role madness game

Can someone good at this game tell me if I'm right or wrong thanks.

[Raskolnikov]

EE you're full of baloney.

I'll give you a chance though.

[Raskolnikov]

Working with like 20 quotes is going to take me literally hours though so just hang tight for now

[Raskolnikov]

Spoiler: part 1

Honey, I'm home!

Actually sorry

VOTE: Beeboy

not putting up with this again.

Putting up with what again?

you have no reason to claim so early into the game, we are still in the RVS phase.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: beeboy

Wow this is nasty.

VOTE: Extrapolated Eagle

Hi! Nice to see you again!

Hello! I'm glad I got to play with you again! Sorry you rolled scum again, glad to see you're town here!

That is my personal opinion however, and I see that most of the other players disagree with it.

UNVOTE:

Did the other players' disagreement change your mind here? I'm not sure why you unvoted.

Because he's scared scum. He realized he messed up.

i don't really see scum changing their mind because of popular opinion so publically like that. a bit brazen, isn't it? though that could be a reverse to think the reverse! is that scummy to you, iraonavp? (gosh do you have like... a nickname? im not sure how to begin breaking that up)

I do. Just ask Klingon.

1- Going back to post 9 to ask more about an RVS vote
2- I think that's a good response to a post 10 claim especially from a newbie. If you said it was bad or you didn't like it that would be fine but I think calling it nasty and going on to scumread him based on it is going too far
3- hands out a townread frivolously and on someone with no content
4- this is ridiculous
5- Because you change your opinion like that as scum you can see kelbris doing it. fair enough.

Spoiler: part 2

So within hours we have a mason claim (unless she's kidding) and an unkillable claim. I hate both you.

That's ok I don't think feel good about you.

Especially if you're unkillable because you could have eaten a NK if you're actually town.

VOTE: snarky

They could have, but it's all wifom anyways and I imagine scum are pretty posses at something like this happening. We've got conftown that can't be dealt with, I mean that's a massive advantage. You should be happy and you aren't. Why not?

1a assuming you went through the thread post-by-post this statement at this time doesn't make any sense at all as you haven't yet read anything to base a feeling off of. Alternatively you read everything and had your reads decided then went back to do this post-by-post which is weird considering some of the later fluff, things like the rvs question; I'd expect you to keep it more relevant to your reads if this was the case.
1b the statement doesnt analyse or say anything about whats quoted above it
2 you put him at conftown, say its a massive advantage and that I should be happy.
first of all he's not conf and even if you think it's very likely I'd expect at least a touch of doubt
second of all if you read the thread (going back to 1a) you would know its not a massive advantage because he stated the drawback of his role being the game ends a day earlier, and since he claimed he won't be eating any NKs. you don't question his day 1 claim at all, but assuming he's town you also think claiming first thing day 1 is optimal?
third you say I should be happy for this and ask why I'm not. In the very quote you're responding to I say why he shouldn't claim unkillable so he could have ate a NK. You're scumreading me but not looking at what I actually say?

Spoiler: part 3

Wait @everyone I can guarantee we can figure out Elsa and Anna's role if we get them to L-1 by page 3 I promise.

Why them in particular? Because they're so.... Them? I don't think you really have to try to get them to the point where they're a pretty easy read in most cases, IMO.

I don't actually believe you but that sounds like a fun thing to do regardless

Doesn't it? But why are you so hoppy with your vote?

Especially if you're unkillable because you could have eaten a NK if you're actually town.

VOTE: snarky

Is he scum-aligned, though? We can make policy lynches later if necessary. I think placing your vote here at this point is anti-town, since he already claimed.

Yep. Why are you so unsure about this? I don't feel too good about you, either.

VOTE: Kelbris

You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you?

Haven't they? Good to see you again, too. And as town, just the same!

When I said "I should've seen it coming", I mean that whilst it was unexpected, I should have realized that it was a possible tactic used in the game of Mafia. Public opinion changed my vote because my (rather stupid I will admit) vote immediately made everyone accuse me when I was simply basing my vote on past experience, sometimes you just need to admit when you are wrong and realize when others are right, even in mafia.

How...adult of you!
I like being the adult one usually!

Dammit, how can I scumread you when logic and humility are employed!?


- Ari

He actually reads scary like my horribad off-site scum metastatic from two years ago. Him and rask are my two biggest scum reads atm.

Do you have a strategy besides parking your ass on obvtown?

You can't possibly consider yourself "obvtown" at this stage of the game. I understand that there's a certain degree of bravado there, but still.

Why shouldnt they? I think they're pretty obvtown, and they even have a pm that tells them they're obvtown (unless they don't and in that case why wouldn't they just say they were obvtown?)

1- total bs. Implying that else/anna (RC and FA) are a pretty easy read. either shallow thinking which is more likely from scum or EE actually thinks that in which case [redacted]
2- looking this far into something clearly not serious: shallow thinking again. Also at the time of that quote I hadn't changed my vote and at the time of this I've only done so once
3- scumreading someone else for NOT using shallow thinking, okay.
4- Another townread given out for free. telling him that in this way is buddying-ish too
5- whether he's right or wrong his view on kelbris here is actually consistent with part1.5 so that's good for him
6- the third (I won't count snarky since that's reasonable) townread given out so fast and easy, worst because he goes as far as saying obvtown. shallow etc but matches the equally absurd view in 3.1

Spoiler: part 4

I knew this day would come.
-snip-

Iioa? This isn't playing the game this is nasty scum stuffs

I thought that if anyone would appreciate literature it one who calls themselves Aristophanes. I suppose you are merely a dilettante? A pretender? An errant, craven pander of ill stock and disreputable house? Bah!

VOTE: Aristo

Seriously though.

Yeah, seriously.

Wait. OMGUS much?

1- The correct term is fluff, IIoA is when you give information and analysis about the game and without giving strong conclusions on whether people are scum/town or pushing them. Now you can complain about this but if you think its alignment indicative please go further. Not knowing what IIoA contributes to my VI lean on him
2- Okay but don't leave it there. Why not say why you're finding this post and vote scummy beyond saying its omgus? In insolation fluff, IIoA, omgus do come from both alignments so usually people explain beyond just saying this post was X.

I want him to try to connect the dots and actually say why he thinks these posts would come from scum since he believes they do. I want him to explain what he thinks would motivate scum-rask to post these posts he's pointing out and same for kelbris.

Spoiler: part 5

Ugh these claims

I think VT claiming mason to try to eat a NK is unlikely in a role madness game like this

I think it might actually be worth running him up and either lynching him if hes scum or outing the other mason

I think if scum goes for masons it isn't the worst thing in the world in a role madness game

Can someone good at this game tell me if I'm right or wrong thanks.

Vote Elsa

Fake vote intentional?

Hey hey hey!

If you any personal problem with My sister don't involve me in them! thx

~Elsa

Please don't lock her out of this, please don't slam the door, you don't have to keep your distance anymore~

VOTE: Kelbris

that was a shitty reaction in page one. and it still is.

~Elsa

Yep. What about rask?

fluff. Doesn't take a stance on beeboy vs else/anna. He said else/anna was obvtown before, he doesn't say anything about beeboy? Remember him townreading klingon and alchemist on pretty much no content but beeboy who's been fairly involved I guess wasn't worth saying about.

Spoiler: part 6

Ari wtf are you doing?

~Elsa

I was helping!

But now it's page 4 (nice work getting us there btw), and my vote is no longer required here. Also, him trying to get you to self hammer is shady.

But I did like my Kel vote a lot better. Let's do that again!
VOTE: Kelbris

- Ari

QFT

UNVOTE:

:/ page 4 isn't indicative

That's true. Lets get to the next page!

If I wanted you to self hammer I would have started a real post based on how your 2nd post vaguely resembles a policy lynch which would actually make you mad since town was scum reading you for that. I was just trying to lighten the mood <3 =D You wouldn't self hammer and give me the satisfaction of succeeding which is why I was comfortable having you at L-1.
Let's have a fun game ok?

Define 'fun.'

Snarky you never claim that.

Really? I mean see my reasoning for it, is that not smart?

I thought it was smart, but I'm just an eagle

To clarify - lynching me is the same as a no lynch, and night killing me is the same as a no kill. I only claim early because I know I often get mistaken for not town and I wanted to not be a distraction. By the same logic I'm pretty sure I wasn't going to be night killed anyway so

You're unlynchable and unkillable?

Sounds a little overpowered to me.

VOTE: Snarky

I agree wouldn't hurt to try right?

Yes?

1- ok
2- minor. On the surface he agrees with the unvote since he sees else and anna as obvtown. If you actually look at what beeboy said it was that page 4 wasn't indicative (referring to else and anna) and he appears undecided. I think EE isn't really looking at beeboy's posts very closely and this goes with what I said in part 5.
3- doesnt have anything to say about beeboy again despite that beeboy/esleanna interaction actually being fairly substantial at this point in the game. After reading that post what he asks beeboy is to define 'fun'.
4- nothing
5- idk

Spoiler: part 7

Aristocow - the thing that makes me not so OP is that I'm not counted towards a majority for endgame purposes. I only have a vote / count towards a voting majority.

@Holly - hydra slip or???

Wait...so your body counts vote votes needed,but your vote doesn't?
Is this only in endgame or is it always??

Holly Suga, you guys need an Avatar.
Also, I didn't see a town slip, and pointing it out yourself makes it not indicative anymore.
Also also, Pip is Itlepip.

- Ari

Yeah you're a very solid NULL. Please think more town thoughts, thanks!

As in, scum's wincon is usually something like "you win when you make up half of the living players" or someshit, I don't count. So if there's 3 town including me, and 2 scum, scum win right there.

I guess that makes it a little less exciting, but still we have conftown, right?

As in, scum's wincon is usually something like "you win when you make up half of the living players" or someshit, I don't count. So if there's 3 town including me, and 2 scum, scum win right there.

For the record,

That

is something to claim outright.

In the case of a Bullet and Lynch Proof role, I'd claim the latter,nnot the for, in the hopes of drawing an NK.

This is pretty much conftown. I'm good with this!

I find myself just agreeing or disagreeing with your posts but you don't have any feelings and I really don't like it.

Wow, rereading that it's obviously about hydra slipping. I feel dumb now.

I still found little content in this iso thus far.
VOTE: Holla at yo Suga Momma!

Like this. Why would you do this? What do you even want here? I don't get it. :/

iraon, is that 'calling themselves obvtown' thing just neutral in your consideration for Elsa and Anna as scum, or is it part of your read?

Good question. I feel better about you than other people here *sideways glance at kel and rask*

VOTE: Beeboy

For trying to vote an Unlynchable claim and wasting his vote like that.

Not a bad vote. Glad you're probably town, too!

1- solid null on aristo, interesting
2- meh
3 and 4- I think he's wrong on aristo not having 'feelings' as he did vote people and was involved but I can't draw any conclusion here or see this as AI
5- meh, worth noting its yet another townread though this one's not exaggerated
6- you think beeboy is a good vote but didn't have any personal interest in him and didn't ask him anything substantial when you've quoted him several times. ok

---

I see little critical thought within his quote amalgamation. He votes kelbris because his reaction to the mason claim and because he reminds him of himself as scum, he doesn't like me for a few tells he doesn't go into detail on as well as my view on the claims being different from his, and he doesn't like iraon for questioning the BP/unkillable day 1 claim either. He hands out ridiculous townreads 2 of which are on people with barely any content but he makes it sound like they're really strong. I wouldn't have any problem if he said he found kelbris or me suspicious but I think he's way too convinced (131), similarly if he said his townreads were weak rather than exaggerating most of them. I don't see any town paranoia in how he's approaching his reads and I thought his approach in doing his quote-by-quote on the game was weird since he seemed to have his opinions already decided before he begun. With all that said most of these esp. the shallow thinking would also apply to a VI so I want to hear his response and his explanations for why at this early point he's so convinced about so much.

p.s. I'm never doing this again it took FOREVER

[Raskolnikov]

I really just can't believe someone could actually read the game and genuinely come out with the perspective expressed in 130

[Raskolnikov]

Why are you assuming he has a role that can visit?

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: Elsa and Anna

[Raskolnikov]

Has anyone seen RC or FA use AtE as scum before? Personally I'm pretty inexperienced with these players

[Raskolnikov]

Deathtunneling on someone because you don't like what they did a game before is absurd and I don't see why they would do this when they could have /out ed when seeing the playerlist. I think town RC would be more inclined to just ignore beeboy rather than make a big deal out of this, and I've heard of him using gambits like this (especially involving AtE) as scum for towncred. Furthermore since it's between RC and beeboy and I don't think FA is involved I don't know why FA would be fine with this if they were town, whereas if scum it makes sense for her to stay silent and let RC try this gambit.

The tldr is it's either really reckless townplay or a scum AtE play and I see the latter as more likely.

[Raskolnikov]

I wanted to see his reaction. I feel if he was town he would have addressed me directly rather than saying what he did.

I mean I could be wrong but you don't learn without making a few mistakes!

[Raskolnikov]

On one hand I want to go into it because of what you're asking but on the other I don't want to upset them if they're actually town.

So I'm leaving it there and you can come to your own conclusions.

This is a game and I just want to make what I think are the right decisions but if I end up too involved in drama from it it's just not worth it.

[Raskolnikov]

UNVOTE:

[Raskolnikov]

I think this would be taking it pretty far for a scum ploy, and if that was the case it probably would have been ideal to have just kept posting rather than this.

If I'm wrong here though I'm going to remember this for next time.

[Raskolnikov]

You could lynch me if you want!

[Raskolnikov]

<3

[Raskolnikov]

I have to re-read. The only thing recent thing that stands out to me is in 181 the way ARS sounded pretty confident that both you and beeboy were town.

Theres also a ton of lurkers lying around this game which isn't making things easier

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: A Real Scourge

I'm feel most confident voting this right now.

[Raskolnikov]

also I know you guys are going to wagon me super hard soon so just start now and get it over with kthx

[Raskolnikov]

Actually

VOTE: klingoncelt

[Raskolnikov]

oh thats cool I'll just take your word for it *unvote*

[Raskolnikov]

It is just his fantastic dreams, his vulgar folly that he will desire to retain, simply in order to prove to himself--as though that were so necessary--that men still are men and not the keys of a piano, which the laws of nature threaten to control so completely that soon one will be able to desire nothing but by the calendar. And that is not all: even if man really were nothing but a piano-key, even if this were proved to him by natural science and mathematics, even then he would not become reasonable, but would purposely do something perverse out of simple ingratitude, simply to gain his point. And if he does not find means he will contrive destruction and chaos, will contrive sufferings of all sorts, only to gain his point! He will launch a curse upon the world, and as only man can curse (it is his privilege, the primary distinction between him and other animals), may be by his curse alone he will attain his object--that is, convince himself that he is a man and not a piano-key! If you say that all this, too, can be calculated and tabulated--chaos and darkness and curses, so that the mere possibility of calculating it all beforehand would stop it all, and reason would reassert itself, then man would purposely go mad in order to be rid of reason and gain his point! I believe in it, I answer for it, for the whole work of man really seems to consist in nothing but proving to himself every minute that he is a man and not a piano-key!

[Raskolnikov]

You don't think beeboy's towny but you don't really think he's scum either?

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: AristoCow

[Raskolnikov]

I hate this game because I'm only getting townreads and some nullish-could-be-scum

even ARS it felt he got voted too easily and his recent posts are townishy even tho that 1 earlier post is still bad

you guys dont even let me vote klingon

[Raskolnikov]

A Real Scourge (5): shos, Holly and Sugar, AristoCow, beeboy, iraonavp

This bothers me. The only guy on there I like is shos. Conversely the only people who explicitly were against the lynch are EE and snarky, (alc and klingon not really saying much either way).

If it is ARS then I could see him being with kelbris (who has him as scum but didnt vote) and maybe having one person on his wagon or a mistaken townread. The problem is that if the townreads aren't mistaken then having 1 on here plus the kelbris position would be scum going too hard on one of their own; kelbris would have to vote eventually as scum if the lynch was going through since it would look terrible if he didn't and would doom him next day.

If it isnt ARS then it could still be kelbris, 1 person on here and the third also on here or a mistaken townread who's actually scum. I think its more likely?

This iraon ARS converssation is complicated and some of its semantics but they probably aren't scum together now at least.

fuck sorry

[Raskolnikov]

The problem with scumreading ARS is that she sounds like a nice person

[Raskolnikov]

waait Rask i just remembered that i had things that i wanted to explain to me. i think you told me that the meta thing with RC was a reaction test toward him, didn't you?

It was 190. We talk sometimes and he told me several times before this game that he thinks AtE is the best tool in mafia. Standard response to what I said would have been to just tell me directly that it's ridiculous because of just how facetious it is, and in general to engage me (also sort me) rather than 'addressing the crowd' like he did (see 325 too). Then when FA said he wanted to just leave the game and she had to ask him to stay (looked genuine) it sort of invalidated that. If they were actually scum using AtE there you wouldn't go that far, and another thing I didn't want to mention (it would have been insulting at the time) is that replacing out even as a hydra head as scum under that pressure would be somewhat close to strategic which doesn't mean its impossible but definitely less likely. On the other hand it could also have been the case he was genuinely upset in that situation even as scum (I remember scum rc replaced out once in a game with titus for nai reasons) especially as the beeboy thing was from a previous game so I can't 100% clear them for town either.

[Raskolnikov]

i see, that's fine then. thanks for the detailed explanation.

so in the end it didn't give overwhelming evidence one way or the other. it's hard to for me to judge the because i've never played with you and only have word of mouth, but what you've done here seems like a reasonable course of action. can you reply to 452 as well?

181 is bad
I don't like how you were trying to be neutral with them even as you had E/A voted
346 is bad (somewhat moreso because it follows 345)
your view on beeboy is weird
Your attitude is friendly and even comes off as naive(?) which feels wrong for someone wagoned and under pressure
After a lot of reflection I think I'm weirded out because of how everytime you ask someone something or even scumread them it's like you give them an out, like a really big chance to change your mind.

But it was way too easy to wagon you which feels wrong and I don't like the people who hopped on. I'd feel better about something like kelbris because even if hes town I won't have any remorse.

[Raskolnikov]

The real issue with the ARS wagon is that I tried to make counterwagons on people I thought were town but were objectively and none of them took.

What kind of ancient wizardry is this?

[Raskolnikov]

The main flaw to me is that they thought people would sheep naked votes instead of supplying some kind of reason to form the counterwagons

lol

[Raskolnikov]

man, not sure how i feel about people thinking of me as lynchbait.. but it's probably my own fault.
alright.
all of these are legitimate, honestly.
the reason i had the sisters voted was because i was trying to say that what they wanted to do (get lynched, and then get beeboy speedlynched), was anti-town, and so town shouldn't do it. i was trying to tell them that if they were town, they needed to rethink things. i also really don't like personal fights in games.

my attitude has been mentioned by other people before. i don't know if i'm naive (but if i was, i wouldn't know, why i?), but i am friendly. i like to have fun, and i don't like it when things get personal. i'm not sure how you expect someone to respond when they're under pressure, as you say, but.. like.. do you expect me to get angry and stop being friendly? that's not how i do. plus, a wagon in a game isn't gonna make me upset. i get upset from personal attacks and such.

the fact that you're saying this is making me rethink things. i want to be taken seriously, and if that means taking a more serious tone in my posts, i'll try it out.
the bolded line is what really gets me though. i think you're town, and this is a large part of why. because you might be right. i mean, i'm still new to this, i'm trying to work things out, but i like that you're giving me genuine advice here. i try to hunt through townhunting, but i guess if i too easily give out townpoints, it kind of defeats the purpose, huh?
the aim of my voting is to get a reaction out of the people i'm voting. i always vote people i could see being scum. if it looks like i gave them an 'out', it means they did something that i think scum wouldn't do in their position. i think i've given reasons for all of my unvotes or changes, and it'd be helpful if you told me which ones weren't deserved. not everyone i've unvoted is free of suspicion from me, either. in the cae of shos, for example, i'm just less confident. and in the case of iraon.. well, see the below.

I think I was a bit harsh. I didn't intend to criticize your style, but rather just express why I in particular felt the way I did about you. I'm new myself and I could be wrong or see this differently than others, and furthermore everyone has their own style to some extent and people get used to it if its nai (through experience and meta). As far as the game itself it's a breath of fresh air and so what if it made the read a little harder! (buddying) I really liked talking with you because its so much nicer than the more usual arguing, fighting or sometimes apathy you often get elsewhere. Please don't change! (/buddying)

[Raskolnikov]

mfw my scumreads stop posting

[Raskolnikov]

wishlist

beeboy
Klingoncelt

AristoCow
kelbris

[Raskolnikov]

beeboy can you readslist for me pretty please?

[Raskolnikov]

ok you don't get lynched today

[Raskolnikov]

Prodging, lynch aristo or kelbris (maybe beeboy?) thanks.

Not much to say since till they come back.

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: Dream Man

[Raskolnikov]

Idk I always find it impossible to wagon/lynch afks especially near deadline and it's annoying af. We have to consolidate on something.

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: kelbris
sorry guys kind of busy today

[Raskolnikov]

I have a mild townread on him but I'm not sure if it's worth preventing the no-lynch

[Raskolnikov]

Realistically he hasn't claimed (and probably isn't going to be able to within 2 hours) so he could be PR especially in role madness, plus I don't know if a role-madness no-lynch is as bad as a regular nolynch because if we get an extra day the night actions could actually help.

[Raskolnikov]

If FOUR people could show up and vote kelbris that would be great. He's L-4

[Raskolnikov]

To hammer or not to hammer...

[Raskolnikov]

No, not going to do it, sorry

[Raskolnikov]

Three of you please vote kelbris thanks.

[Raskolnikov]

Only because I'm townreading you tho
VOTE: Iraon L-1

[Raskolnikov]

Why would they target someone who's getting roleblocked anyways?

[Raskolnikov]

Also 3 nks is straight up ridiculous

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: Klingoncelt

[Raskolnikov]

It definitely proves that E&A are Scum. Raskolnikov and Beeboy have proven to be Scum as well, by virtue of their naked votes.

Shos, maybe.

Oh shit guys we're looking at 4-5 scum this game

Klingon, considering E+A killed kelbris (no cc makes it a safe assumption), do you think they would do that as mafia, or do they think they are 3rd party that targeted scum day 1 like mariomaniac suggested? I'm promise I'm not being facetious here.

[Raskolnikov]

Even if she's town this reaction was really amusing.

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: klingoncelt

[Raskolnikov]

The thing is you would have been far more convincing if you had some moderation rather than being all like 100% scum confirmed scum everywhere proven without a doubt!!!111

[Raskolnikov]

I feel like you're more upset for being 'caught for the wrong reasons' rather than for being misread as a town would be. If you were town it would still be a reasonable assumption that at least half of your wagon is town and therefore would be misreading/mistaken but you're acting like only scum could possibly be voting you and trying to discredit all of us as people rather than work towards an understanding.

[Raskolnikov]

Town-voter wagons build more slowly.

You must be new.

I am new, but even I

can see why kids love the taste of Cinnamon Toast Crunch

am confident your reaction here is terrible especially for scum. Even if you are town your logic here is really faulty and if anyone were to actually follow it, it would be very destructive and pretty much lose the game (although I am pretty sure you are scum for your approach and the shallow thinking). Anecdotally, I've also seen fast wagons hit scum quite a few times as well and many slow building ones to have scum inside vote-parking so I don't even agree with this statement. If you actually are town then post a thorough detailed analysis rather that repeating X is scum for shallow reasons I'll look it over but right now your rather absurd reaction isn't doing you any good whatsoever; at the very least that would help post-flip.

[Raskolnikov]

Nah EE trust the Klingon wagon is good, if you think Klingnis scum why do you think me and E&A would bus 2 buddies in a row?

Don't forget me bro, I want in on this bloc.

[Raskolnikov]

Woah, with that it's safe to assume that kelbris visited E+A last night with a non-kill target and died as a result, and the real mafia killer visited Alchemist.

[Raskolnikov]

As opposed to kelbris killng alch and being killed by E+A in a type of vig shot.

[Raskolnikov]

^I totally deserved that win yo

[Raskolnikov]

outplayed.

[Raskolnikov]

if the results went to someone random, they can confirm, right? Is the player the results go to chosen out of player slots or is it from players who are alive at the end of the night?

I have a question friends. If someone is killed (as alc was) would this message be sent out anyways? This is important.

[Raskolnikov]

if the results went to someone random, they can confirm, right? Is the player the results go to chosen out of player slots or is it from players who are alive at the end of the night?

I have a question friends. If someone is killed (as alc was) would this message be sent out anyways? This is important.

I don't have much experience with these mechanics, but if someone could answer this that would be great.

[Raskolnikov]

UNVOTE:

[Raskolnikov]

I believe her claiming that ability, but I'm also wondering if she could have that ability as scum, perhaps with another extra ability to add power.

[Raskolnikov]

I think the ideal play is to force choose her target tonight?

[Raskolnikov]

prodge
activity coming soon sorry etc

[Raskolnikov]

I like MM as town, actually I like all 3 replacements. Let's lynch in {ARS, Shos, EE}

[Raskolnikov]

EE was notably absent when we had potential to wagon kelbris last minute, his #2. Today he was really meh.
I have to think over which of shos/ARS is worse (ARS got scummy again) because the other one is p.town; bussing in this situation is suicide and would get wrecked by massclaim later.

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: A Real Scourge

[Raskolnikov]

I think scumMM probably wouldn't confront E+A with SK accusations after he lost his partner to them. His going after shos is alright.
I forgot what made me townread him but I don't see what's wrong either? If someone could make a case here I could agree/disagree but rn I don't know why this wagon n1.

[Raskolnikov]

That is bad and I don't really understand it. The closest thing to making sense would be is if he was saying: "I think MM is scum, but if MM is not scum I think ARS could be scum here for his interaction/pushing ml here", but I'm not sure that's what he was thinking, probably isn't since he didn't communicate anything close to that. I'd easily vote shos over you but for the EE-shos weirdness. I figure regardless of EE's alignment it looks good for shos: town EE wouldn't lie and scum EE p. wouldn't interact/hard defend like this if shos was his partner. Shos scum would mean EE's p.town and his judgement is wrong, which is possible from what I've seen of him this game, but idk until I see the details.

I do agree with the other guy on this, he should out (paraphrase if he's not allowed to quote) the PM so we can judge for ourselves.

[Raskolnikov]

Actually you do a similar thing he does
1. you say (about mm) "i think he has a good chance of flipping scum"
2. you don't think shos/mm are partners
3. you vote shos

if you think shos was scum and that it isn't shos/mm, I think you have to say mm doesn't then have a good chance of flipping scum
I'm confused now...

[Raskolnikov]

Ok good I was wondering if I was in the twlight zone when I saw you pointing him for doing that and then doing the exact same thing ...

[Raskolnikov]

I myself am not sure why I'm scumreading you so much, but I am

[Raskolnikov]

I'm pretty sure scum wouldn't claim a role that could be easily verified (if not today then tomorrow).
And E+A had a point earlier in that klingon being scum having the same ability as kelbris doesn't make sense either.

[Raskolnikov]

You may target a player to watch, and a PM will be sent listing who targeted that player with an action that night. However, the PM result will not go to you - it will go to another player of your choosing who is not aligned with the Chaos Insurgency. This player will not be informed of whom the watched player was.

Close enough.

[Raskolnikov]

I forgot this replaced aristo
VOTE: jmo

[Raskolnikov]

oops
UNVOTE:

Ok I'm goona put in effort today I swear

[Raskolnikov]

Alrighto.

MM, klingon and E+A are all claimed (though E+A only partially); MM and E+A are near conf town barring some kind of SK, and klingon's claim is fairly convincing as well, though even if it wasn't, it's still worth giving her the night to try to prove it. That leaves 5.

Dream man I'm townreading. He has that somewhat detached style that I can never fully trust a player with, but his actual scumhunting this game has been decent. There's a few minor tells; I think scum are less likely to out the pgo ability that killed their partner, both out of "guilt" and also because as scum it's harmless to them but still has potential to kill town, so it wouldn't make sense to out it as he did. His observations have generally been insightful and pro-town, and although there's no town smoking gun I don't see any reason to suspect he isn't town.

Actually looking at jmo (lol), he hasn't said much. His only notable action is being against the mm wagon who we now know is town, which in isolation would be slightly good, but since literally everyone except for E+A was either on the wagon or okay with it, it would make sense for him to not join a partner on it. After the kelbris flip I looked back at beeboy (who was really mixed) and now that I don't have my replacements mixed up I think the slots probably town from beeboy's near-deadline play, though I still want to see more of jmo.

Now the big three... EE ARS Shos...

EE (W)
I was townreading him from our earlier "exchange", despite disagreeing with literally everything he said. He did switch from kelbris to me near the day's end and wasn't available for the last minute kelbris lynch potential which is some degree of bad. Day 2 was whatever for him, he's floundering and hasn't done much other than mm and didn't change to anyone else after the unvote. Who are his other scumreads and why doesn't he mention them; I thought he scumread me but he hasn't bothered with that since day 1. All that said for whatever reason his posts feel okay (tone?). Of the three I still like him more than the others and if I didn't have POE/claims this wouldn't ordinarily be this far down. His partner possibilities make sense and because of this day 2 I think he's probably scum?

ARS
Ughhh. The actual words and things she says are fine. She can sit here and talk about the game with you and it would be a nice exchange; she makes sense. But her attitude, tone, actions, everything else is just off for me. Looking through the ISO, 345-346 looks bad as a kelbris association. 388 I don't like how passive she is her responses, especially "bad form" to aristo's vote on her, the unvote after alc's quote a la faked stream-of-consciousness, though the iraon vote is ok. The followup on iraon really was lacking, and the unvote unconvincing, I had a similar sort of unvote as scum in another game and it doesn't feel right here. She revotes but doesn't really seem to actually care about getting the lynch through; also 673 and 675 I don't like either given kelbris's flip. Day 2 was low activity, was okay with the mm wagon but didn't want him dead (882), I now see sho's point on this. Finally today she's pushing for a lynch and it feels like she genuinely wants it done, but since shos is on the other side and losing this 1v1 would probably end ARS's life she doesn't actually get credit for this. As far as tone and trying to read motivation goes, the fact that it feels she's always around but rarely "truly" involved (worse than not being around and rarely involved) and up until now not seriously pushing does point me to her being either scum or less likely, a role like cop that also doesn't feel that motivated to scumhunt; I can see a cop not pushing for anything until they get their guilty. The problem is some posts do read alright to me, and the ars v shos does mean one of them is actually town. With all of that said this is 80% feeling that I can't put into sensible words, really want this lynched.

Shos (F)
This is the complete opposite of ARS. Objectively he's done scummy actions yet his posts feel good to me; it's mostly POE and reason that make me to consider this independently as likely scum, and almost certain if I'm wrong on ARS. ISOing, 291 is exaggeration of something's scumminess which I see more often from scum, but minor either way. 298/299 is technically scummy as a shallow vote but because I agree with him I don't actually dislike it. Though he keeps a lot to himself I think he does read rather thoroughly; I assume he actually read part of my exchange with EE and it influenced his read on me and in 310 is asking for EE's answers. Reading thoroughly isn't AI but it seems that he's doing so in a way that he actually is getting his reads from it, even though he isn't obvious in explaining his thought process in thread. Does that make sense? 396/398 pushing ARS and retracting in 431 is technically scummy (the implication is he didn't actually have a reason the whole time) but I don't think it actually is because I've felt the same about ARS and that her problem is mostly tone rather than anything definitive as well. 515 kelbris defending is bad, the defending of me here is notable as I was a wagon at the time. At this point the wagons were {ARS, Me, and aristo(now dream), with kelbris not wagoned but heavily scumread}, and he doesn't like Me/kelbris and was unsure on ars, not commenting on aristo. Townreading so many and not committing at the time in isolation is bad but with so many wagons available at the time I also don't know why scum wouldn't go on any of them. I'm not sure how scum would perform a catchup; would they look at the VC and pick targets and then fake scumread those, or would they "naturally" catchup and then vote based on what they faked there? 602 and 642 votes are shallow though again I like the votes themselves. Similar to both EE and ARS he wasn't willing/available to vote kelbris at deadline (despite him liking iraon 583), though he's different in that he was townreading him which ee/ars weren't. He asks EE for confirmation and it's a little strange but reads good for him; scum shos+ee would be bizarre for this interaction, town ee vouching for shos is good and verifies the interaction, and honestly I think a role like this is more likely town (similar to FN) unless its part of a 1 shot for another joat-type mafia. Wagon on scourge is good, strong townreading of EE is weird/bad yet consistent with that night action if he's wrong town. Overall I like shos more than ARS even though I don't feel like I have much concrete on ARS while shos does have objectively scummy-ish play. Honestly even though I really shouldn't I think I have a soft spot for him for him sharing a lot of my views this game and his interaction with me would make me feel like I'd let him let him down if hes town and I'm wrong about it. Yeah...

Assuming I'm not wrong about Dream man+beeboy, both scum are probably in here. I think EE-shos would actually be little unlikely from that cute interaction. You can disagree here but I don't know why mafia would defend each other in that specific way, and it would be extremely creative if so. Looking back (428), shos was on ARS and ARS on shos; the way these two players have went against each other even today looks to be beyond distancing and bussing your last partner would be suicide in a role madness as well. I want to rule out this combination as well. The problem is ruling out both of these associations with shos doesn't leave much room for him to be scum; if he is scum I'm either wrong about the EE-shos interaction or I'm wrong about one of my other reads (dream man?).

Alternatively, MM could be a mafia JOAT of sorts and have shot snarky with a type of 1-shot ability; I'm not experienced in setups but I think something like this, even if it does give mafia an extra kill one night would be possible a role madness. If I think about it, initially it doesn't make sense to shoot snarky as scum, but if you're going to fakeclaim vig it makes perfect sense, plus his claim looked premature as well. Just something to consider? This also makes sense with his partner being on the wagon (again, literally everyone was on/okwith this wagon) since he would know of this plan and it wouldn't count as a vote for him in the usual sense. The problem again is MM is after shos, and to repeat myself bussing your last partner in a role madness with near-conf towns is insanity. Who could be sho's partner? MM still probably town all this said.

If anyone has a link to a time where this weird (ee-shos) thing was done before from scum as a creative play I'd like to see it; I don't have enough experience to with stuff like this specifically.

tl;dr its ARS vs shos, ARS probably being with EE whereas shos would probably be with a townread I'm wrong on. I guess theoretically it's possible for it to be EE and one of my townreads but this is almost not worth mentioning; if ARS isn't scum then I'm wrong on this side and it's shos after all. ANYWAYS.

VOTE: A Real Scourge

I would also vote EE happily; shos I'd only do on the condition that we get ARS the day after no questions asked if shos turns out to be town. I'd have to see a really good case to consider dream/jmo at this point because I don't personally see any justification for them scum.

[Raskolnikov]

Whoops, that's L-1. I didn't check...

[Raskolnikov]

Nvm it's L-2.

I'm tired I just spent like 6 hours reading this thread...

[Raskolnikov]

What the fuck?
Role fishing?

[Raskolnikov]

That was a typo, I didn't actually have the wrong idea this time. I would have brought up aristo if I thought he was your predecessor since I didn't like him at all, but holly I felt wasn't worth mentioning.

[Raskolnikov]

Eagle are you really seeing ARS shos as TvT?

[Raskolnikov]

That's what I said earlier, except it's not as strong for me because I don't quite share his optimism for you not being able to misunderstand/misread shos if you were town and he actually was scum.
This thinking is why I like dream man for town.

[Raskolnikov]

That role sounds AWESOME

shos are you paper-related?

[Raskolnikov]

eeeeeehhhhhh
VOTE: jmo

[Raskolnikov]

Did anyone get klingon's result today?

[Raskolnikov]

Actually, I think I'll end up claiming today anyways.
I know for certain that dream man did not kill ranger last night (unless hes immune to stuff).

[Raskolnikov]

False. Scum killed ranger, who replaced MM, who was the vig claim (safe).

[Raskolnikov]

Speaking of which, I think you are the only one left who hasn't said anything about their role.

[Raskolnikov]

Oh yeah, dream man didn't either, but I don't care about him as much since I know he didn't kill.
Also one of you two is probably 524 because it doesn't seem to match anyone else. Because 524 seems relatively harmless I think it's to the person's benefit to claim it.

First things first though, if shos+klingon out the result/target that would be great, though it's unfortunate it went to shos.

[Raskolnikov]

You said you were 2 shot. Doesn't that mean you're out of shots now?
Furthermore, why did you investigate the confirmed vig claim (no cc) over someone more likely to be scum (shos,ee)...

[Raskolnikov]

lol

[Raskolnikov]

If you believe this is the case, you've outed this information early instead of waiting to see who would push her.

[Raskolnikov]

Dream man, do you know how kelbris died? Do you think mafia would kill one of their own night 1 and claim it as an alternative to bussing?

[Raskolnikov]

Aside from that consideration your other points are correct.

[Raskolnikov]

found this

Why am I on L-1?

no quickhammers please, I'll fullclaim if needed.

Meanwhile, yeah, I'm SCP-1783. Klingon, do you know by now why I can vouch for you?

Was this implying shos also received the result yesterday as well?

[Raskolnikov]

I did visit you.

[Raskolnikov]

Why did you investigate the confirmed vig claim (no cc) ?

[Raskolnikov]

Especially since she claimed ascetic...

[Raskolnikov]

Do you realize that a vigilante that claimed a shot and isn't counter claimed is nearly confirmed town? Do you disagree with that?

[Raskolnikov]

Is that your reasoning?

I thought that with alignment cop and your previously voiced suspicions of third-party you would say you suspected her of 3rd party rather than being a scum with an extra NK.

[Raskolnikov]

yolo
VOTE: klingon

[Raskolnikov]

If anyone has JK or RB'd me last night, please speak now.
Also

@mod

can I confirm there was no mod error made last night

Thank you.

[Raskolnikov]

Sorry for doubting you davsto.

Anyways I don't really know then. None of the claimed town roles would interfere with a visit and if it was scum they won't say anything (how unlucky).
Either that or ARS is scum with ninja modifier or something, idk. RIP.

[Raskolnikov]

This is pretty damning (low probability) so I'll forgive you guys if you ML off this.
If you do I recommend target selection within {flubber, klingon, ARS} tomorrow. I doubt klingon and ARS are on the same faction and ninja actually makes sense to prop up an otherwise weak flavour cop role if scum, though klingons play has just been so bad its still up for debate.

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: flub
ARS klingon and the rest all have bad partner associations amongst themselves, I think whichever one of them is scum have this for their partner and that actually makes this higher percentage than any of those choices.
Unfortunately I think you guys are in a position where probability forces you to be rid of me today (I would in your pov), though I hope you re-read my views afterwards and maybe find some value in what I say for the next and possibly last choice.

[Raskolnikov]

Does the (uncc'd) kill on kelbris not clear them? Am I missing something?

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: klingoncelt

[Raskolnikov]

Shos what is your role exactly? Fruit vendor?

[Raskolnikov]

I'm sorry, even looking back I'm not entirely certain.

[Raskolnikov]

Sigh

[Raskolnikov]

I'm almost certain Dream man is telling the truth. If so, there has to be some explanation for why both me and ARS claim to have visited him yet he was notified of only 1 visit. This cannot be a scum plan because the pieces were setup before anyone knew I would out my visit. Here are the two possibilities from my pov.

A) ARS visited him, and is ninja so wasn't detected (scum)
B) I was roleblocked/prevented from visiting by scum. This points to klingon being scum because a mafia team with RB should target the cop over an unclaimed person, but this isn't 100% because it was suggested that watcher target klingon. If there is a RBer, it isn't ARS or klingon, probably not shos dream e/a either. This points to flubber who's unclaimed.

This is evident to the more observant of you: because I can't tell if my visit actually succeeded I'm not a role that gets a result. I am roleblocker.

[Raskolnikov]

I'm fairly confident the answer is a yes.

[Raskolnikov]

Anyways, it's incredibly likely either klingon or ARS is scum, but not both. In either case I think the partner is probably flubber with an very small chance of dream.
I have this written down

Cannot be partners
Shos - ARS
Shos - flubber (puppy visit interaction + 1118, didnt push cw to shos)
klingon - ARS (dream man/last night interaction)

Also I don't think its shos klingon either but this doesn't have strong evidence, but little things like them claiming to both visit ranger last night.

Possible partners are then
klingon : flubber, shos? (dream?)
ARS : flubber (dream?)
flubber : shos, ARS, klingon, dream?
shos : klingon? (dream maybe)
dream : shos, klingon, flubber, dream

But I don't think dream man or shos are scum, shos for most part owing to his partner opportunities being terrible.

Again, assuming it's between an ARS or klingon scumteam I see flubber as the probable partner to either and I'd actually in an ideal world lynch that but I don't people will actually vote it over klingon. Purely between klingon and ARS I'd rather lynch klingon because her reactions have been horrendous and she continues to exist with no results.

pedit will respond to this later

[Raskolnikov]

As far as I can tell rolecop claim is meaningless since it's incredibly easy to last-claim rolecop as scum and confirm the townies aren't lying.

[Raskolnikov]

To reiterate, I refuse to lynch outside of {klingon, ARS, flubber} today.

[Raskolnikov]

I recommend everyone unvotes E/A and shos.

If I haven't already explained E/A are town by role/d1kill and shos is town because he can't have partners.

From my pov the dream man result actually makes this game simple as it means scum almost certainly has partner 1 as either klingon or ARS and it ruled out a good amount of associations left. It also for complicated reasons makes me really sure dream man himself is town and flubbers the only man left, and he also happens to be available as partner to almost everyone but shos.

In this case I think you guys should either believe me and act accordingly or don't believe me which would mean lynching me and looking back on this tomorrow.
The only case in which it makes sense to ignore what I'm saying is if you think I'm telling the truth yet mistaken, in which case you should point out where what I'm saying is potentially wrong because I'm pretty confident in all of this and can back up specifics.

In other words your lynchpool should be {klingon, ARS, flubber, raskolnikov} because if you don't choose within the first three I'd rather be lynched myself than have Dream man E/A or shos chosen today.

[Raskolnikov]

Rask, did you answer why you decided to roleblock Dream Man?

He was more null at the time but I didn't know what his role was. Roleblocking klingon would have been stupid for obvious reasons and if you were town I didn't want to deny your flavor result either. I think at that point I still wasn't sure if mafia could act + kill and so I wanted someone who wasn't expected to act though I think that was a stupid concern now. In retrospect I probably should have targeted flub(EE) but this dream man interaction has actually been pretty useful.

Rask, just cause you're town doesn't mean you're definitely right, and i'm definitely not gonna lynch you to 'prove' your analysis. you can be wrong and town, or right and scum. i don't agree that shos has to be town because of partner interactions, and i dont think that partner analysis is infallible. i mean it's cool and i think it can be helpful, but it's not 100%.

I didn't say I was definitely right,

The only case in which it makes sense to ignore what I'm saying is if you think I'm telling the truth yet mistaken, in which case you should point out where what I'm saying is potentially wrong because I'm pretty confident in all of this and can back up specifics.

so if you want we can talk about specifics. Who do you think the scumteam is?

[Raskolnikov]

How nice of you to volunteer

[Raskolnikov]

Why would you role cop ARS in that situation over klingon or someone else??

[Raskolnikov]

Raskol claims to be a 'roleblocked Roleblocker', apparently the only way in which a town's claim is plausible.

Almost but not exactly.

If you read 1264 I also say its possible ARS is scum with a ninja or other modifier that would make him not show up as visiting.
Again,
A) ARS not detected as visiting for some reason
B) I was RB'd, JK'd, redirected or otherwise prevented from visiting. If a townie did something like this they would have said it by now I think so it would have to be from scum.
C) I didn't think of this until now, but if you were scum with ARS he would know your material and you both could pretend he visited you for the sake of pushing this lynch. This is even possible without daytalk though daytalk would make it a lot easier. I think this is probably unlikely but I guess I should look into it.

If nobody minds, I'd like for flubber lynched today for his "role cop" claim, so that Scourge and Raskol's roles can be proven both at once.

This might not do much in terms of determining their alignments, but it can help to verify what they're saying; Raskol in particular.

Though just like you I would like a flubber lynch I don't understand your reasoning for it.
If I were you and thought I was lying I would just vote/lynch me; lynching flubber to verify me and ARS's role actually does very little to help because knowing if me and ARS are telling the truth about our roles would still leave the original choice and not clear alignments. Like "I think raskol is lying but let's lynch flubber first" actually doesn't make sense from town pov and you should explain this.

[Raskolnikov]

If you think shos is scum then who is his partner?

[Raskolnikov]

I really don't see shos-flubber but shos-klingon makes sense when I think about it.
We don't actually have confirmation of klingon's role because it's shos that vouched for him yesterday without receiving anything (still not explained), and its shos that claims to have received his message today.
If that's the case it would also allow klingon to be the person to have prevented me from visiting last night because he wasn't actually confirmed as having done something else.

[Raskolnikov]

Shos why did you vouch for him day 2 without receiving anything?

[Raskolnikov]

If I look at 1118 I see shos at L-1 and flubber essentially discouraging the counterwagon.

Earlier than that there is EE and shos having an interaction about EE being visited by shos in a puppy visit. It was early in the day and shos wasn't under much pressure at the time and I think it's really creative and strange to do if they were both scum.
If shos had such an ability why not use it on someone town?
Although if they were scum together shos wouldn't actually have that ability: he would not use it night 1 on his partner and then night 2 on the person they targeted to kill (this was his claimed last night target).
But why fake-claim a fruit vendor if you can't actually use it? As days carried on, wouldn't people be upset as they found themselves wanting for fruit? Because that's pretty much the case if shos-flubber are scum together like you think.

OTOH Klingon putting shos to L-1 there is fine if they were scum together though if you expect the claim to be beneficial and stop the wagon. Klingon hops off in 1122 in a way that I could see if they were scum.

Still, even if it makes sense I feel as though something doesn't add up, like I'm missing something.

[Raskolnikov]

1184

[Raskolnikov]

She was roleblocked night 1.

[Raskolnikov]

I was wondering why you vouched for her when you couldn't actually have gotten anything
but this "good hearing" thing makes sense with the dog I guess

[Raskolnikov]

I also thought she could have been fakeclaiming because if you claim to invest a dead person I wasn't sure if something like that would even give a result (be verifyable), and targeting dead again next night is pretty unlucky.

But I think in light of this she is probably town with that role. But if her results only went to shos and shos was scum then it would be an entirely useless role.
So I guess shos is town after all?

Huh.

[Raskolnikov]

I don't know if this confirms them both as town, but if it does scum is then dream man and either ARS or flubbernugget. I don't think it could be ARS+flub.

[Raskolnikov]

lol

[Raskolnikov]

And, if one believes that I am lying about this fact, I can only simply disprove this foolish view. One first, must explain the public nature of my Role, indicating "1" (player has visited myself), with nobody counterclaiming the announcement. Secondly, one must explain how I would be able to divine that Raskol's claim of visit onto myself would not have a definitive result, that is, he would not be able to know whether he was roleblocked or not. The fact of the matter is that Raskol modeled his claim after I had made my reveal, and with a one or two days delay; this certainly points strongly towards Raskol lying rather than myself. Indeed, one with a rationale mind can only conclude that the information that I have revealed with regards to today's role interactions could be nothing but the truth.

So, unless any of you would like to construct a plausible explanation for how I would be able to have planned all this ahead of time, I thank you for the compliment, but it must be said that such ideas are nonsense and this will be the last I shall speak about this matter.

That's a misrep. I never said you were ever lying about what your role does, I don't think anyone else did either. Maybe you should re-read.

But role doesn't equal alignment. I theorised that if the klingon-shos thing actually does make them town (I'm not sure if it does) then because the scum candidates left over would be you, ARS and flubber that you would have to be scum because I don't see it being ARS-flubber for certain reasons. It's a conditional statement and to truly evaluate it we have to decide if the shos-klingon interaction actually makes them town.

I'll summarise what it actually was in case you weren't following along. Klingon's results go to someone "with big ears". Shos has dog flavour; shos gets klingon's results. This also makes me believe klingon really is that role which previously I heavily doubted because he targeted the dead twice. The thing is, if you follow it; if that is truthfully klingons role it would be useless as scum and it would also be pretty useless if his results went to scum, so that makes shos better for town because the alternative is that mod created a somewhat useless role. It's all very complicated.

[Raskolnikov]

The actual quote was "someone with good hearing".

[Raskolnikov]

-_-

[Raskolnikov]

Y-you too

[Raskolnikov]

UNVOTE:

[Raskolnikov]

1 - no one did

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: ARS

[Raskolnikov]

Yeah, I feel good about this

[Raskolnikov]

Shos is now at L-1

[Raskolnikov]

Klingon, where do you think your result would go if shos were to be lynched?

Btw nobody quickhammer. I don't really like this lynch in particular but no matter who we lynch I have to an idea for something to do when today's lynch is decided.

Basically for any specific lynch I'll announce who I'll roleblock if it flips scum: that way we restrict the possibilities
a) if someone else (including me) is killed instead, that person is pretty much conf-town unless they're ascetic.
b) the NK is forced onto that player to prevent them being conf-town
c) the person is the scum and so prevented from killing
d) scum no-kill to try to frame him but this gives investigative roles another free night

sound good? I think it makes sense even if you don't trust me because the person would still be conf-town if they aren't killed.

[Raskolnikov]

Of course the above is only of value for a scum flip (ML means 2 scum left who will obviously just kill with the non-RB'd).
And I think shos is town?

[Raskolnikov]

prodge
will tryhard today

[Raskolnikov]

How do you reconcile shos being scum, with klingon claiming alignment cop whose results only go to shos? Have you seen something like that before?
Also (unless he's JOAT-type) would he claim to visit to the person he knew would die last night, rather than just visiting one of us? I guess wifom but still.

[Raskolnikov]

If I was scum I would have roleblocked your PGO and killed you last night

[Raskolnikov]

But like, wouldn't shos-scum make klingon's role useless if she's town? Is that fine?

[Raskolnikov]

Super duper sure?

[Raskolnikov]

I don't know if that's a jab at boonskiies or me

[Raskolnikov]

I thought setup spec made him town

[Raskolnikov]

but this is win-win now because if we lose I can just blame you and I get to see that thread too

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: shos

[Raskolnikov]

1747 though

[Raskolnikov]

Ok so

If shos flips scum I'm going to roleblock dream man. Scum will be forced to either no-kill or kill him to prevent him from being pretty much conftown, and we can get use from his ability too. If scum don't NK or kill dream odds are they're killing me but that should still conf dream and leave everyone else alive.
During this night, I think flubber should check klingon's role and klingon should check flubber. I ruled out shos/ARS scumteam back in day 2 and I still think it holds.
If klingon's scum I think she's lying about her role and flub should pick it up, if klingon's role actually does anything she should inno/guilty on flub too.

If shos doesn't flip scum of course I'm going to RB whoever I want. Odds are I'm dying then but maybe I'll get lucky.

Does this sound good?

[Raskolnikov]

Wait a second...

[Raskolnikov]

UNVOTE:
one last thing I have to resolve

[Raskolnikov]

The dream man interaction strongly suggests that one of {dream man, ARS} is scum from my pov, or from yours {dream man, ARS, me}.
How do you explain this?

[Raskolnikov]

Actually shos/dream man makes sense
and if it was shos/klingon then klingon would be lying about her role anyways and could conceivably have prevented my visit last night also

VOTE: shos

[Raskolnikov]

Don't worry shos, if you somehow flip town it would sort-of clear klingon and then among {ars, flub, dream man} people would/should then lynch dream (I don't think ars-flub is really a thing) and have a reasonable shot at the last one.
Although if klingon is town she's also likely to vote E+A if she gets to any lylo scenario so yeah..

[Raskolnikov]

But if klingon is town telling the truth then her role becomes useless without you and so scum would instead kill me (or maybe flub if hes town).

[Raskolnikov]

Guys I think firebringer is scum here
he's overreacting and using AtE

[Raskolnikov]

Wow
why you gotta be a jerk like that

[Raskolnikov]

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: Dream man

Deadlines in a day let's do this
I really liked dream man before but today the way he didn't really push me at all despite his night result was weird.
Even though he's wrong he shouldn't know he's wrong unless he's scum and if I was in his position I would have tunneled super hard all day.
He says its because he's townreading me but I think he knows mislynching me would look really bad for him (and/or ARS) which makes me think it's probably dream man/ARS with maybe the chance for a non-ARS partner.
He sounds pretty sure I'm lying yet wanted to push flubber for low productivity which sounds bs and his votes and unvotes on flubber and shos read artificial to me.
I also think this is scum regardless of shos alignment so it's a safe lynch in these times of uncertainty for america. I don't think he would be with flub.

Plus we have to consolidate on someone in 30 hours and everyone else has people that refuse to vote them (which also means we have town hard defending scum this game).

Would also do {ARS, klingon} but don't tell them that they'll get mad at me and I need their lovely votes

[Raskolnikov]

The only downside is if this is wrong it has massive gamethrowing potential. If dream man flips town (and mafia had a redirect or something) then we'd probably lose lylo because shos would hard defend klingon and vice versa and E/A will hard defend ARS and I don't really think flub's scum anymore so if it comes down to me v flub the games probably lost.

but like, yolo

[Raskolnikov]

is this guy serious

[Raskolnikov]

[Raskolnikov]

I like you too

this is like ARS all over again :/

[Raskolnikov]

I already mentioned this, but kk had no results n1 cuz she was rb'd.
But I guess I could see a scum cop that sends results to a town person as an interesting mechanic with room for play (inno randomly and then fake guilty at lylo).

Also if you look at EE/flub slot I'm like positive he did actually rolecop me night 1. He was straight up asking for my role day 2 and if I said something else other than RB he probably would have freaked out.

[Raskolnikov]

if you want someone lynched why unvote them from l-1 one day to deadline T_T

[Raskolnikov]

inb4 its actually klingon/shos scumteam and they win the game hard defending each other on faulty logic and feigning ignorance

[Raskolnikov]

He literally just said paint mafia
this game is painful

[Raskolnikov]

never mind

[Raskolnikov]

now im infected

[Raskolnikov]

why are you townreading ARS again?

[Raskolnikov]

ok I shouldn't have asked

[Raskolnikov]

how is ARS there different from how a scum who was having a bad day react
like can't scum be genuine about something if its unrelated to the game?
I don't think its fake but idk how its AI either

I thought it would be something else for a "this is my best town read" meh

[Raskolnikov]

Did you miss his role PM the first time?

[Raskolnikov]

is this a townslip by shos tho?

[Raskolnikov]

Would scum pretend not to have seen their own partner role pm at this time .
I'd put that above shos so he'd need a partner to have came up with it for him which would also require daychat
I'd put that above almost everyone here actually.
So if he is scum he's scum who wasn't paying any attention to his partner day 1 and didn't really read his PT

eeeeeeeh

[Raskolnikov]

I like this though
VOTE: klingon L-1

[Raskolnikov]

as a side note, why do stumps give up?
being an unkillable confirmed town gives your words way more value than usual, and getting to kind of spectate yet influence the game sounds sick af
especially in setup spec stuff like this where everything people say you have to consider their agenda or what spin they're putting on it would be useful

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: flubber l-2

[Raskolnikov]

Part of me hopes that klingon/shos actually is town and we get an inno on someone tomorrow (possible because even if hes killed I assume shos still gets result).
Objectively I know there's likely 1 scum in the two but I can't for the life of me decide which of them it is. Again, shos scum would make klingon's role useless if hes town.

Going back to basics flub didn't show any scumhunting (pushed klingon for obvious reasons) and though I think he's actually rolecop I don't see it town with the other investigatives.

If this flips scum I can feel better about ARS town plus it wouldn't be lylo so we could maybe get actual use from klingon and probably decide between dream/shos/kling
If this flips town I'd do ARS though.

[Raskolnikov]

lol is that the gamethrow?

[Raskolnikov]

For my own amusement, please write why am you think I'm scum and who my partners would be.
I get to enjoy reading it and you get the utility of convincing others.

[Raskolnikov]

The best if when someone is 100% convinced because its hilarious next day but unfortunately this is just settling.

[Raskolnikov]

I was voting him when you said you were 100% sure he was but your unvote last day annoyed me and then you showed doubt on him anyways.
I didn't push it because it was more of a sheep than actually something I was personally sure about but I can't be bothered if it this shit happens.
If you wanted him lynched you should blame yourself for unvoting.

[Raskolnikov]

Like okay maybe my reads are wrong this game but I'm just trying to be avoid nolynch and come up with a plan for tomorrow at this point. Something people can go back to even if I die overnight.

[Raskolnikov]

For the nth time if shos was scum wouldn't klingon then be prob town, and then klingon's role be useless?

[Raskolnikov]

Plus it doesn't really help me see shos scum if your partner association for him is me which I obviously know is faulty.

[Raskolnikov]

Whoever comes here in then next 7 hours
vote one of
flubber (2)
klingon (2)
me (2)

If it's to avoid nolynch I'd even selfhammer.

[Raskolnikov]

Are you saying you'd be okay with klingon then?

What make flub obvtown though