Mini 1840: Watch Dogs Blitz [Game Over]


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Post Post #2700 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:34 pm

Post by MathBlade »

What is worse is I almost governed Stargazers lynch XD
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Post Post #2701 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:34 pm

Post by Not Chara »

actually, no.
i wish i had been with the main team. good gravy. i love private messaging as scum.
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Post Post #2702 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:35 pm

Post by Nahdia »

it happens. good game and all. i always enjoy games with curious mechanics and this wasnt an exception. i did find out though that hydra-ing as scum is REALLY unfun. so i probably won't ever hydra again or do it very rarely going forward.
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Post Post #2703 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:36 pm

Post by Expedience »

Thx for carry
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Post Post #2704 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:37 pm

Post by Aquanim »

In post 2689, Not Chara wrote:i wasn't made aware that my power worked or not. just that my shot had been used up.

but, for future reference. it's bad form as town BP to mislead the town about the lack of a nightkill. if there was no kill, and you're a BP, and you were being townread going into night (makign you the target for a scumkill)... then the lack of kill was probably your fault. and the town should know about it.
mitigated somewhat by the existence of the Last Will mechanic.
I was not under the impression your slot was widely townread going into night. Perhaps I was wrong.

Basically, at the time it happened, the scumteam at that time had no reason (as a 3-man scumteam) to assume there was a Traitor, and by the time it became clear just how town-sided the setup was without another anti-town player there was only myself and Panther left, and we were flat-out trying to keep up with the game after replacing and finding a way to salvage something from the mess.

The last will mechanic is a pretty crazy power multiplier on town PRs as well... and that's not even getting into ways to abuse the messaging mechanic, although House did made that work for scum as well.
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Post Post #2705 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:39 pm

Post by Not Chara »

i completely understand where you're coming from there.

...and yet it makes me want to ask you to hydra. say no, obviously. it would be a bad idea.

pedit: oh. i just assumed i was attacked because GuiltyLion was widely townread. i didn't think he'd presented himself as a scary PR. even taking that away, town BPs should still claim because they have really good chances of messing with nightkill analysis if they don't.
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Post Post #2706 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:41 pm

Post by Not Chara »

Last Will is steroids for town investigations,
let me tell you
. it didn't end up affecting us, but it could have.

i should have gone all-in with the fake guilty, then attempted to coast on a refuge in audacity. curse my overly cautious nature. bad for traitor.
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Post Post #2707 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:47 pm

Post by Nahdia »

nice new avi.

i've never actually been traitor in forum mafia but my thoughts have always been that unless you're in contact with your team early on, the best bet is to go aggressive and counterclaim a PR or something. though i guess there is the danger of accidentally murdering your partner and then getting nightkilled... maybe your way of playing it was better :p
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Post Post #2708 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:49 pm

Post by Not Chara »

my way might have worked if the scumteam hadn't been plagued by replacements. it's all unclear.
but i think you're right. in this scenario, i should have done something crazier than just doing a (mostly) safe reaction test.

and thank you. it was changed to something a bit more optimistic due to a recent town win in Lucky's Auction Mafia. hurray!
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Post Post #2709 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:13 pm

Post by Aquanim »

I don't really do hydras, sorry. Having to convince my own slot to do something would drive me insane, and I mostly only play Normals anyway.

I was only convinced the setup was truly wacky by d4 with the night-cancel, and by then it was too late to do anything (the only practical way to do anything about the Traitor would have been for one of the doomed players to message you... even that might have been problematic, since you'd have had to reply for us to know, would we even necessarily trust you, and what were you doing messaging a redcheck?). For that matter, I still wasn't certain Creature was a full cop until d4, bluffing more shots than you actually have is a common investigative PR play and something like having two one-shot cop-check items sounded entirely plausible. Bodyguard + Follower + 1-shot Bulletproof (or somebody protecting you because Lion claimed to them, or you getting offensive JK'd, and your holding some weaksauce role like Motion Detector) + random items (2-shot Cop, 1-shot Vig, some random loved and similarly useless stuff) didn't sound like a totally unworkable setup, especially if the mod misjudged how effective hacking was going to be for scum (and it's not an obvious mechanic to judge).

Anyway, apologies if my concession screwed up anybody's game.

I feel pretty bad about it, and you should not expect another from me in the future; in a game I understood I would fight it out, if the problem were just avoiding getting lynched, but the whole "your team is all dead to night actions you had no way to stop by the time you joined the game, and nope you don't even get to have a night cycle to think things through" thing tilted the hell out of me.

A single greencheck on Sly or Expedience from Creature, or my getting Watched by the item from the vault when I tried to shoot Creature (I was very confident based on their names that one of the items in play was a Watch) was going to end the game in any event.
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Post Post #2710 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:18 pm

Post by Not Chara »

oh. was to Nahdia. i can see the reason for confusion though.
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Post Post #2711 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:23 pm

Post by Grapevine »

In post 2682, Not Chara wrote: does anyone have suggestions for what i should have done differently?
Someone else said to claim Miller, but that's a death warrant in LYLO anyway.
If the game is a closed, non-normal setup like this, then you can easily claim that your ROLE tells you the scum team has a traitor. You'll look town for exposing that information (unless you botch it horribly) and you might even draw a protective if you're able to fabricate a good enough fake-claim with how your role interacts with the Traitor. Of course, you can't outright say something like, "I am informed of a traitor and if I am alive, they can't join the scum team" because that might just draw the scum kill to you. There'd have to be some precision to claiming it, but sharing that sort of limited information trends towards looking town on-site. Furthermore, if your team isn't a bunch of dumbasses, they'll realize you're the traitor and that's how you know.

Your biggest mistake here was assuming information that wasn't on your rolecard. You assumed the mafia was informed that there was a traitor. If something isn't made explicit to you and you're unsure, ask the mod. If it's still not clear, assume it isn't so.

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Post Post #2712 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:26 pm

Post by Aquanim »

the whole "your team is all dead to night actions you had no way to stop by the time you joined the game, and nope you don't even get to have a night cycle to think things through" thing tilted the hell out of me.
EBWOP: I am a Normal player, and lacking the skill to do otherwise I tried to play like I would in a Normal and hoped for the best. For me, the above is an Outside Context Problem.

Eh, enough whinging. TTFN. Or TTFE, maybe this is the time I finally convince myself to quit Mafia for good. God damn I hate this game... it's just that the high from being right as town is unfortunately addictive.
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Post Post #2713 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:27 pm

Post by Not Chara »

i see. i didn't think they'd been informed, but i thought they would be open to the possibility.

claiming an informed role would have been very useful. i don't know if i'd have been able to put together a good fakeclaim for that. i don't have enough experience with this site. then again, i didn't even try to do so, so perhaps it would have worked...
either way, thanks for the information. armed with this knowledge, i will
surely
...

never, ever, roll traitor again.
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Post Post #2714 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:29 pm

Post by Not Chara »

i just like being scum. i always feel as an obstacle to the win when town. like... 'congratulations on the win, us, i'm certainly glad i didn't contribute to our possible failure more than i did!' haha.
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Post Post #2715 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:40 pm

Post by Aquanim »

Oh, one last thing: this would have been my last will but Firebringer missed the PM.
In post 432, Grapevine wrote: ...
2. Firebringer was too shortsighted to realize giving everyone a PT with everyone else for texting would have the ideal way to do the same thing.
In post 447, Grapevine wrote:I think Firebringer is just chuffed that I thought of the way better, hassle-free approach of just making a bunch of PTs. :P
It's okay to be jelly, FB.

-V
Alternatively, Firebringer realised that this would require 78 separate private topics.

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Post Post #2716 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:45 pm

Post by Not Chara »

that, and Firebringer wanted the sending of PMs to be made public. that would be just as annoying to do with private topics, which encourage rapid-fire messaging. (i'm referring to the posts announcing messages.)

i think this is the only way it could have been done.
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Post Post #2717 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:07 pm

Post by Nahdia »

In post 2705, Not Chara wrote:...and yet it makes me want to ask you to hydra. say no, obviously. it would be a bad idea.
there's a whole list of people i should maybe consider hydra-ing with some day but i think after this game if im gonna hydra with anyone it'd have to be someone i think i would work well with ie someone who thinks on the same wavelength as me.

and im weird so.
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Post Post #2718 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:14 pm

Post by Not Chara »

entirely fair, though i thank you for the answer.
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Post Post #2719 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:17 pm

Post by GuiltyLion »

Hi guys, I want to apologize again for replacing out, especially to Firebringer. I really did want to play and the traitor role with BP/tracking abilities was pretty badass, but I just knew I wasn't going to be able to keep up with 20+ pages a day, I wasn't prepared for the game to move that fast, and I felt like trying to lurk/play through it anyway would have been letting my scummates down.

Thank you to Not Chara for taking over and fighting admirably
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Post Post #2720 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:20 pm

Post by Not Chara »

it was a very cool role. and i don't think anyone faults you for replacing out.

thank you! c=
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Post Post #2721 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:23 pm

Post by GuiltyLion »

also just a setup question - do traitors normally operate without knowledge of their scummates? I was under the impression that a traitor knows the mafia team (but the mafia team doesn't know about the traitor), but I guess that would have been broken in this game with the messaging mechanic.
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Post Post #2722 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:27 pm

Post by Nahdia »

like anything else, it varies from mod to mod. in Normal play, they do always know the mafia team.
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Post Post #2723 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:28 pm

Post by Not Chara »

how often are traitors seen in Normals?
i. want to play as a traitor again.
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Post Post #2724 (ISO) » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:31 pm

Post by Nahdia »

a question best asked towards a veteran of the Normal Review Group, or maybe the Normal List Mod. or N. N would know.

i've played one normal game on here with a traitor in it, was a large though and i presume you'd see them more there since there's just more going on. in minis, you need to get the standard 10v3 setup which leaves less room for considering a traitor.

i also played a game on my home side with a weird modified traitor that was a night 1 vig that then joined the scumteam night 2. wild stuff.
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