Mini 1856 - This Mafia Game is for pieguyn (Game Over)


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Post Post #3875 (ISO) » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:42 pm

Post by pieguyn »

I'm pretty satisfied with my reads, though. before we all fell victim to the setup, I caught Varsoon/Wisdom immediately and thought pisskop was a likely pick for the last scum via POE.

I'm also pretty satisfied with how I chose to play my role, I basically saw it and thought "fuck this, how do I play that?" and thought "fuck it, my role does nothing and it's a very sketchy looking role so I should probably just claim immediately".
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Post Post #3876 (ISO) » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:43 pm

Post by drealmerz7 »

yeah you were all over the game, pie, as in, like, owning it and reading GIF well and figuring what to do with it and all that
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Post Post #3877 (ISO) » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:49 pm

Post by pieguyn »

ironically, if pisskop was just a standard scum player and didn't have the role that he had, probably none of the shit that would have led to me writing him off would have happened and I'd have ended up POE'ing him according to his play anyway (that's pretty much where my reads were D3).

this is the kind of shit I mean when I say that scum would play a lot differently being incapable of killing and that it messed up my reads a lot, we were just in a scenario where everyone had done a bunch of stuff that'd usually make no sense from a scum POV and it at least wasn't apparent to me that it was because whoever the last scum was couldn't kill. it's kind of ironic how that works, it got him town read in a position where he'd otherwise likely have not survived but it was irrelevant since he never wins that position anyway.
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Post Post #3878 (ISO) » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:51 pm

Post by drealmerz7 »

yeah that is the 1 aspect of the setup you missed that skewed it all ):

GIF got you, I'd say, and pisskop was the PERFECT PLAYER to pull it off

I mean, it couldn't have gone more beautifully for a troll game because of that no-kill traitor element and how it actually played out (AND with varsoon+wisdom being gone SO quickly)

piece of art
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Post Post #3879 (ISO) » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:52 pm

Post by drealmerz7 »

but town still won ! (:

so it's all good

you put in SO MUCH EFFORT, it was incredible, I would have given up I think if I were you (and not me who would have ameliorated pk!...meh who knows! I like to think so)
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Post Post #3880 (ISO) » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:53 pm

Post by pieguyn »

after that last day ended, GIF told me that he was glad for my own sake that it didn't end in me being lynched. and honestly, he's 100% right. had I somehow been lynched there, given we were really in what was an autowin position and the thing that I hate the absolute most is taking a good position and somehow managing to fuck up and lose it, it would have been a really traumatic experience for sure.
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Post Post #3881 (ISO) » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:56 pm

Post by drealmerz7 »

yeah, I would have felt that with you too and am glad as well (not just for mysake!!!), and for GIF too

very glad
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Post Post #3882 (ISO) » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:56 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

yep glad it worked out in the end, even if it was stressful along the way <3 :D
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BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
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Post Post #3883 (ISO) » Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:03 pm

Post by Nahdia »

i mean i came into the last day wanting to be thorough because i was pretty shocked the game was still going, but yeah the chance of me ever lynching pie was tiiiiiiiiiiiiiny. none of the points against her really did much for me, any doubts i had on her was fleeting paranoia which i basically ignored.
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Post Post #3884 (ISO) » Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:24 pm

Post by GuyInFreezer »

The one thing i wanted to see was one of the scum being townread, lolkill someone obvtown, and go "my protection failed :("
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Post Post #3885 (ISO) » Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:27 pm

Post by drealmerz7 »

I bet they would have loved that too

wisdom like up and left the site :|

he replaced out at 150+pages(I think?) 17p theme because scum was harassing him so badly and he thought they were dumbtown

and then he left the site, with vedith?

I bet they're lurking around

*waves*
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Post Post #3886 (ISO) » Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:29 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

A summary of this game, in pictoral form
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:P
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #3887 (ISO) » Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:36 pm

Post by drealmerz7 »

omg I'm saving that one
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Post Post #3888 (ISO) » Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:41 pm

Post by pieguyn »

In post 2317, pieguyn wrote:I had this amazing post written out that I was going to post when day opened, then Varsoon flipped and everyone else came to the realization you were scum and I didn't need to post it.

I was so, so, so ready, I was gonna fight both of you at the same time and it would have been beautiful.
for completeness (and for anyone who wants to read some analysis of Wisdom's scum game), this is what I was gonna post had Varsoon not died in a timely fashion overnight.

Spoiler:
so overnight I thought really hard about the Wisdom scum read, because this is a weird sort of game where outside of {dwlee, Varsoon} I can think of at least some reason to town read everyone else left, whiiich means I'm going wrong somewhere, and until my 11-th hour twilight epiphany yesterday I really had no idea where I could have been going wrong.

first, his read on Cakez. when I looked at it again, what hit me is that he has posted absolutely no explanation or reasoning for it at all. all it is is just shallow throwaway statements like "as if drealz isn't flipping town and Cakez knows it", "they're ignoring me", "he's afraid to call me scum". there are no specific examples of how Cakez is WK'ing, no places where he attempts to distinguish the possibility of scum-Cakez WK'ing from... Cakez just being town who used his scum hunting ability to figure it out... and nothing that shows any real depth or critical thought.

the read on me is the same... the best he came up with for actual reasoning in terms of scum reading me is that "your walls are manipulative", which lol at this because he has seen me write walls as town that were far longer than anything I have written in this game - and besides that, again, it's not a point that has any depth to it. besides that the only thing he came up with was how I relate to Cakez, as opposed to anything about my actual play, anything that shows he's actually willing to step up and directly challenge anything I've done in the game.

the first time around, I largely didn't suspect him for any of this because he has done things similar to this as part of his lazy-town MO, but the thing is, even when he's disengaged with the game he still at least attempts to make an effort to point out what the issues with people's posts actually are. for example, when he scum read me in PCB (game where he was town and I was scum and I got him mislynched D1 thanks to his low effort play), he specifically called out one of my posts where I was defending Luna and pointed out an issue with the argument I was making, he specifically pulled posts of mine and called them out for being bullshit, that sort of thing, even though he didn't put any effort into making his push on me turn into anything and largely was resigned to the fact that I wouldn't be lynched.

there is nothing of that sort in this game, and moreover, he has been pushing these reads much, much, much more strongly than I have ever seen him push reads as lazy-town. which isn't his lazy-town MO, it's his scum MO: just repeat "X is scum" over and over and over and rely on people following him without stopping and thinking critically about what he is writing.

besides that I largely just think he's putting on an act here. the bit at the end in D1 twilight about "you were lynched because you took issue with my style" is something that he *does* as town, but it just doesn't fit at all here if you consider what drealz actually did this game. he tends to play a pretty openly manipulative scum game, though, and so that is another thing I think that's more a part of his scum MO than his town MO.

second, I want to consider the position the scum team likely is in in this game - unless me and Nahdia and co. are just completely wrong and both of {Varsoon, dwlee} are town, the scum team this game is likely really starved for mislynches. there are a few hiccups like Luna's push on beeboy, but by and large, a lot of people in this game just won't get lynched due to how widely town read they are.

this is another reason I think Wisdom's push on Cakez is just off. as I said, the way he's pushing Cakez for "WK'ing" makes no sense. I think what's likely happening here is that he pushed this on the assumption that drealz would get pushed to lynch D1, which would give him leverage to push Cakez D2, and once he flipped town, if you look at Wisdom's reads, even though I'd be basically unlynchable he's been gearing up for a push on e.g. Aero afterward for a while now. this not only makes the way he approached D1 have very strong scum motivation, but it IS something I distinctly recall Wisdom doing as scum before - in Pokemon uPick II, he attempted to push zmuffin for correctly identifying McMenno as a town lynch, in a way really similar to what he's doing to Cakez/drealz here (anyone who wants to verify this, read from D4 of that game).

I also do know that Wisdom tends to prefer town reading his partners, so *if* we're not just completely wrong about {Varsoon, dwlee}, Wisdom does fit in as scum with them really well. on one hand, he's been hard defending Varsoon the entire game, but something that is a lot more subtle is that I could really easily see his giant Cakez push as intended to chainsaw for dwlee. I would have to go back and double check the timing again, but key point here is if one or both of {Varsoon, dwlee} as scum, Wisdom should be put under heavy scrutiny.

if {Varsoon, dwlee} are both town, feel free to dismiss most of this as being blatantly wrong, I suppose, but I really think I'm not.

so... yeah, there was pretty much no way out of it even if Aero's vig shot didn't exist, I'm pretty sure.

ugh I wish I could time travel back to D1 before the game devolved into insanity, I thought it was bad then thanks to Wisdom tilting me the entire game day but I never even imagined it would turn out like this. to be fair, that was really well played on his part until I figured out it was what he was doing.
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Post Post #3889 (ISO) » Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:39 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 184, Nahdia wrote:dreal is being a bit more spazzy than im used to him being. either he flipped scum for the first(?) time and is overcorrecting himself, or he used caffeinated soap in the shower today.
Nahdia this is why I replaced out of Evoker; I thought he can't be scum in your game if you think he rolled scum for the first time here. I know it was accidental but be careful with such things.
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Post Post #3890 (ISO) » Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:41 am

Post by Wisdom »

As for the game; traitor with no kill or with no knowledge of his buddies is bad and if I remember correctly GIF realized so.
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Post Post #3891 (ISO) » Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:53 am

Post by Nahdia »

In post 3889, Wisdom wrote:
In post 184, Nahdia wrote:dreal is being a bit more spazzy than im used to him being. either he flipped scum for the first(?) time and is overcorrecting himself, or he used caffeinated soap in the shower today.
Nahdia this is why I replaced out of Evoker; I thought he can't be scum in your game if you think he rolled scum for the first time here. I know it was accidental but be careful with such things.
yeah, I'm aware, and that was totally my fault. You did the right thing, sorry it happened.
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Post Post #3892 (ISO) » Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:55 am

Post by SirCakez »

Redemption for Zelda?
Fun game until I died, kinda turned into a shitshow at the end. Agree that the setup needed tinkering.
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I just wanna say Cakez is an evil mod and this is an evil setup.
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Post Post #3893 (ISO) » Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:11 am

Post by pieguyn »

I think this setup would have been passable if GIF had just done a standard traitor variation even if he didn't want it to be recruitable, i.e. knows partners, can't be recruited and is immune to kills (even just 1x as it was here), inherits kill. I think just changing that and leaving the rest as is is maybe slightly town sided ~ even, and avoids all the nonsense that was post-D2 of this game. I'm aware of the troll factor and him wanting to do something I'd think he wouldn't ever put into a setup, etc., but if you're sacrificing it for playability, it's much better I think.
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Post Post #3894 (ISO) » Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:18 am

Post by Aeronaut »

classic.
2023 W/L | 1-0
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Post Post #3895 (ISO) » Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:54 am

Post by GuyInFreezer »

Traitor was recruitable btw
Only by mafia nightkill though.
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The true enlightenment was realizing that they are the same thing."
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WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
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Post Post #3896 (ISO) » Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:03 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

Did scum team and/or traitor know that?
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Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
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Post Post #3897 (ISO) » Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:42 am

Post by pisskop »

I did
beeboy - Everyone thought this game was made to troll pie but it was really made to troll pisskop.
Almost50 pisskop: Overall, that's a townie slot. Don't ask for specifics because with PK everything can be interpreted either way. It's probably WHEN he says/does things that matter, so it's more of a matter of conception rather than solid reasoning.
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Post Post #3898 (ISO) » Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:43 am

Post by pisskop »

but once v died i bailed on any hope of wiss surviving
beeboy - Everyone thought this game was made to troll pie but it was really made to troll pisskop.
Almost50 pisskop: Overall, that's a townie slot. Don't ask for specifics because with PK everything can be interpreted either way. It's probably WHEN he says/does things that matter, so it's more of a matter of conception rather than solid reasoning.
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Post Post #3899 (ISO) » Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:06 am

Post by beeboy »

That awkward moment when your dying words are to never lynch the last scum because you swear they are conf town.
ah yes, beeboy style reads;
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