Mini 1942 - Switchboard 2 [Game Over]


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Post Post #1550 (ISO) » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:34 pm

Post by kunkstar7 »

:: VoteCount 5x0 ::


Nosferatu (1) -
I Am Innocent

I Am Innocent (1) -
Nosferatu



Not Voting (2) -
BlackVoid, Creature


With 4 Alive, it takes 3 to lynch.


Deadline for Day Five is in (expired on 2017-10-22 18:53:52).
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Post Post #1551 (ISO) » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:42 pm

Post by BlackVoid »

Response to IAI coming but Nos, I really need these questions answered:

Tell me exactly why you weren't willing to fullclaim when I asked. How did you think doing that would help scum? Why did you want Creature to claim last in despite not already having him as a townread? What were you doing the second night that you weren't able to get to a computer?
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Post Post #1552 (ISO) » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:45 pm

Post by BlackVoid »

Okay, I've thought about it and here's why I'm voting IAI:

1. The gambit. This is a pretty major reason. As I mentioned, it makes a lot of sense to do as scum and very little to do as town. If IAI was town cc'd by scum, seemingly implicated by a hider guilty, and thinks Keychain is trying to get him lynched, it makes more sense, not less to scumhunt within Keychain/Creature and once Keychain is lynched, use the fact that Keychain was trying to lynch him as evidence that he's town. But IAI was so unwilling to lynch within Keychain/Creature to the point where he lied to the town to get a lynch within himself and Nos. As scum, this makes a lot of sense since he doesn't know Nos' switch state and Keychain is more likely to endgame than him. The explanations are just not adding up for me (I'll go into this at the end of the post).

2. Fitz's last post. I'm not taking this as a 100% conclusive evidence that Fitz definitely hid behind IAI but it's the best clue he's given us about where he intends to hide. I see IAI's argument about Fitz's last post not being meaningful because if they're both alive, IAI would be conf-town to Fitz and therefore not needing to be questioned. But how else could Fitz crumb at this point? He can't make a really obvious crumb like "lynch IAI if I die" because scum know there's a hider in the game and will figure out the crumb easily. I think he was trying to vaguely throw out his target in the best way he could.

3. Priority level - This is my weakest and least significant reason but I can't help thinking that with two scum having relatively low priorities, game balance would dictate that one scum at least should have a high priority and IAI being priority number one fits. Priorities were assigned semi-randomly and it seems like the sort of thing the mod might do after quickly skimming his past switchboard game. This doesn't affect my decision hugely though but it would be interesting to see if I'm right.

4. Formerfish/Flubber interactions - There's nothing that points strongly to either here but I thought towards IAI looked mildly partner-y and like typical distancing that's not followed up on, especially the "I disagree" tone. I think scum just love to "disagree" with each other.

5. Keychain interactions - Much more telling. Keychain tunneled Nos all of early D2 and only let up when Nos started bringing up personal stuff in response and I think it would a low blow to fake all that with a partner. He can't be scum and genuinely feel all that when Keychain was pushing him because they're on the same team. Keychain's IAI push came only after Fitz's flip and I can easily see that as a bussing ploy where if one of them are lynched, the other gets cleared. Nos never pushed Keychain, it's true but Keychain was pushing Nos very convincingly and I think Nos was under the impression that he was being pushed by a fellow townie. and read like mild distancing with low followup.

Overall, I'm also a bit underwhelmed by IAI's focus this game, the Moz lynch was bad. The Realeo lynch was bad. IAI was leading both those lynches. I'm not going solely on proficiency but I think for a generally accurate scumhunter like IAI, repeatedly getting it wrong can be added evidence of being scum in addition to other things. I also think, given our history of working well together in three previous games as town, you should have been more willing to come clean with me and let me evaluate all the evidence instead of continuing to gambit and forcing me to choose based on wrong info. Your reveal of the gambit actually seemed more like a last-minute decision to back out because you knew that with a Keychain scumlynch, you'd be next if you didn't do something drastic.

Moving on, here are my responses to your latest posts:

A) Nos had his vote on Flubber for most of D2 when it was competing with the Realeo wagon which you were hard-pushing so I'm not inclined to see it as a distancing ploy more than town-Nos just suspecting Flubber. Pressure-voting a lurky slot isn't telling regardless of the alignment of that slot. I don't think him saying it was Chickadee's scumread is damning at all? If anything, scum would want to present a scumread on their buddy as their own for maximum cred. Nullreading a lurky slot isn't scummy either.

B) The unvote by Key seemed more to me like she either genuinely felt bad pushing Nos while he was in that state or simply thought that she could no longer convincingly sell a Nos scumread after his breakdown (can't think of a better word here) so was forced to back off. That's a more likely explanation than them deciding "you push me, I'll breakdown in thread, then you back off and people will think we're both town!"

C) I actually don't see what's different about Flubber's play here compared with Musical Mafia. I was scumreading him while spectating for similar reasons: low activity and bad pushes. What did he not seem to care about, he was pushing Aubrey pretty hard. Given you correctly nailed Aubrey as town, not looking in Flubber's direction is weird especially when Realeo pushing your townread Fitz made him scummy in your eyes. Even if you were "wary" of Key, you never made a push there focusing instead of pushing back on Mozamis and Realeo when they pushed you.

D) Nos leaving his vote on Flubber over Fitz makes sense from a town perspective because Flubber was the counterwagon to Realeo and the only one which seemed plausible. Fitz wasn't going to get lynched. He did vote Fitz the following day though.

E) Finally, the most important thing: his "lies." When I turned my switch on last night, the mod sent me a PM at daystart saying that my switch state was on and when I asked if I'd get that message if the switch state remained off, he said I wouldn't. I could see Nos turning himself on and thinking that he was on despite the mod not saying anything and only realizing now that he was off. So, I see it more as a mistake than a lie. Regarding Lie #2, it seems he did target Fitz not knowing his switch was off and then the mod told him that it was. I asked the mod what would happen in that case. Sorry but his mistakes seem plausible and not actually "lies" whereas your gambit had clear scum motivation and I can't for the life of me understand what you were hoping to get from it as town.

I just don't buy that you as town were selling me a completely false scenario of not having to choose between Key and Creature if we lynch Nos and he's scum and that we auto-win.

VOTE: I am Innocent

I've made up my mind but if you want to respond before Creature votes and somehow change my mind, I haven't really closed off. Creature can feel free to vote whenever.
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Post Post #1553 (ISO) » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:31 pm

Post by BlackVoid »

UNVOTE:

@Nos, how weren't you able to get to a computer to put in a night action N2? It lasted from Friday September 22nd to Monday September 25th. In that time frame, you made 57 posts on site. You then posted as soon as D3 opened to vote Fitz (just seven minutes after). How am I to believe you were hyperactive on site through N2 and didn't find time to get to a computer? If you were posting on your phone, I still can't imagine why you wouldn't send in a night action.
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Post Post #1554 (ISO) » Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:43 am

Post by Creature »

I think I am sheeping you, BV.
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Post Post #1555 (ISO) » Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:45 am

Post by Creature »

So far I don't see how IAI gambit would make sense as town.

He claimed he would jail one of {me, KC} if Nos was lynched. However, any of us would still try to nightkill someone and IAI might falseclear the scum here.
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Post Post #1556 (ISO) » Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:48 am

Post by I Am Innocent »

In post 1555, Creature wrote:So far I don't see how IAI gambit would make sense as town.

He claimed he would jail one of {me, KC} if Nos was lynched. However, any of us would still try to nightkill someone and IAI might falseclear the scum here.
I was planning on coming clean during twilight, at that point I would have been confirmed town and hopefully had figured out the last scum.

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Post Post #1557 (ISO) » Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:27 am

Post by Nosferatu »

In post 1553, BlackVoid wrote:If you were posting on your phone, I still can't imagine why you wouldn't send in a night action.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
All I can say is that I didn't find the time to read this thread and from that decide a night action.
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Post Post #1558 (ISO) » Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:19 am

Post by BlackVoid »

How can you be so active and not find the time to read this thread? You were eagerly waiting for the thread to open so you could vote Fitz minutes after it opened.

Even if you didn't find time to read this thread, why wouldn't you just JK Fitz or something as deadline started creeping up? Why lie and say you couldn't get to a computer?
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Post Post #1559 (ISO) » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:24 am

Post by BlackVoid »

In post 1556, I Am Innocent wrote:
In post 1555, Creature wrote:So far I don't see how IAI gambit would make sense as town.

He claimed he would jail one of {me, KC} if Nos was lynched. However, any of us would still try to nightkill someone and IAI might falseclear the scum here.
I was planning on coming clean during twilight, at that point I would have been confirmed town and hopefully had figured out the last scum.

#backfired
But why even do the gambit in the first place?

If I understood correctly, you thought that since if you get lynched, it's game over anyways, might as well force the issue right then and if you survived, then you can scumhunt. But instead of presenting it like that, you lied and said you had a JK shot and misled us into thinking it was auto-win if we picked right. I don't see the benefit there at all. It's not like flipping Nos would help you with interaction tells because you already knew he was scum and could hunt for his partner right away. Flipping Nos' partner first though would give you more ammunition to use against Nos today. I know you explained it already but I still don't get it.
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Post Post #1560 (ISO) » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:26 am

Post by BlackVoid »

Why would Nos vote Keychain when I clearly wanted to lynch her knowing that it would be auto-loss if IAI was telling the truth?
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Post Post #1561 (ISO) » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:26 am

Post by BlackVoid »

@Creature, what do you think of Nos' N2 action?
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Post Post #1562 (ISO) » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:41 am

Post by BlackVoid »

Here's what Nos' night actions look like:

N1 - Was off, wanted to see if someone would switch him on. They did.
D2 - Must have received notification that switch was on.
N2 - Doesn't submit a night action because he was "busy" despite posting all over the site and posting seven minutes after game start.
D3 - Mod tells him toggle switch is off. (My predecessor was responsible for this)
N3 - He submits action to toggle switch on.
D4 - No notification. (My predecessor turned his toggle switch off again and has higher priority so it remained off)
N4 - Submits JK Fitz.
D5 - No action was submitted.

@Nos, did you toggle anyone's switch on or off N4? Why/why not? And answer my questions in and . Talk about how you missed your night action despite being active and why you lied about not being able to get to a computer.
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Post Post #1563 (ISO) » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:43 am

Post by Nosferatu »

In post 1558, BlackVoid wrote:How can you be so active and not find the time to read this thread? You were eagerly waiting for the thread to open so you could vote Fitz minutes after it opened.

Even if you didn't find time to read this thread, why wouldn't you just JK Fitz or something as deadline started creeping up? Why lie and say you couldn't get to a computer?
i didnt jk fitz and at the time i was moving around a lot being evac'd because of irma, so i simply assumed that i couldnt find a computer. evidently i did but i didnt find the time to put down a jk action.
i dont remember waiting around for the thread to open, i was probably shitposting elsewhere and i got a notification so i went to the thread

pedit: i havent toggled anyone's switch other than my own
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Post Post #1564 (ISO) » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:45 am

Post by BlackVoid »

So, you toggled your own switch on N4?
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Post Post #1565 (ISO) » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:47 am

Post by BlackVoid »

I don't get how you can find time to post over fifty times but not find time to post a simple "JK Fitz" as your night action. When the thread opened, you immediately voted Fitz so you had him in mind as your top suspect. And can you respond to ?
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Post Post #1566 (ISO) » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:48 am

Post by BlackVoid »

Also, explain why IAI's interactions with flipped scum point towards him being scum.
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Post Post #1567 (ISO) » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:51 am

Post by Nosferatu »

In post 1551, BlackVoid wrote:Tell me exactly why you weren't willing to fullclaim when I asked. How did you think doing that would help scum? Why did you want Creature to claim last in 1348 despite not already having him as a townread? What were you doing the second night that you weren't able to get to a computer?
1. Pretty sure I made my case pretty clear but I thought that fullclaiming my switch and past actions would just help scum and not prove my case in any real way or help anyone else prove my case so it made no sense to do so.
2. I wanted luv to claim first for reasons ive already stated, and the choice between key and creature was a toss up i didnt really care.
3. i honestly do not remember dude. i just know i didnt submit an action, i obviously needed a reason to not do so, life was a mess at the time, so i concluded that at the time i was not able to reach a computer
How am I to believe you were hyperactive on site through N2 and didn't find time to get to a computer? If you were posting on your phone, I still can't imagine why you wouldn't send in a night action.
probably procrastinated making a decision until it later on in the night and then didnt have the time to read over and make one

dunno why else i wouldnt have short of just literally not feeling like it?
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Post Post #1568 (ISO) » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:51 am

Post by BlackVoid »

Why would you JK Fitz on N3 when you know your toggle switch was off?
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Post Post #1569 (ISO) » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:53 am

Post by Nosferatu »

In post 1564, BlackVoid wrote:So, you toggled your own switch on N4?


So, you toggled your own switch on N4?
yeah
did i not say that i did or something?
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Post Post #1570 (ISO) » Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:00 pm

Post by BlackVoid »

VOTE: I Am Innocent

Just don't see why Fitz as hider would specifically say he had "questions" for IAI the following day that were so important that he needed to say he had questions instead of just asking or waiting until the next day to ask. That, and the gambit is clearly scum-motivated. Interactive tells aren't conclusive but nothing rules out IAI/Flubber/Keychain. (Also, props to Mozamis for picking the team if this is right).

Heading off to work. Feel free to hammer whenever, Creature.
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Post Post #1571 (ISO) » Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:01 pm

Post by Nosferatu »

In post 1568, BlackVoid wrote:Why would you JK Fitz on N3 when you know your toggle switch was off?
i thought the point was that i didnt
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Post Post #1572 (ISO) » Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:03 pm

Post by Nosferatu »

wait now im confused by your uestion... idd you mean N4??
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Post Post #1573 (ISO) » Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:03 pm

Post by BlackVoid »

The question was why you sent in an action to do so when you knew your switch was off.
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Post Post #1574 (ISO) » Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:06 pm

Post by Nosferatu »

oh i see what you mean

going into the night (4) i didnt think my switch was off

i submitted and action and the mod said "lol what are you doing"
and i said i submitted a toggle and assumed he didnt see it or forgot

which is why at the start of the day i was tryna call him out cause i was like "dude wtf"
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