Mini 1953: XP Mafia (Game Over)

[mastina]

if that is your best scum game you'd best kill me every time you roll scum because I will destroy you and would have if I'd been alive

The key word there is "if".

Keep in mind that as scum I tailor my arguments to the gamestate. I use my inside knowledge of every player and specifically manipulate my narrative to make the greatest use of the knowledge I have. I knew gerryoat was scum, yet nigh-unlynchable in spite of him being his normal blatantly obvious scum self. I knew how to manipulate perception of how events had transpired. I know havingfitz well enough where I know how to engage him and if necessary, beat him in a battle. I know Vaxkiller well enough where I can make a fair idea of how to best utilize his positions and turn them against him.

Honestly the only player in the game at that point I didn't really have the best of ideas on was Screenplay. Which is probably exactly why he was able to get the guilty in the first place--I legit didn't see it coming because it hadn't occurred to me that he would think to use a loyal track on me. But even then, I had a fair idea that I could make him doubt his guilty result simply by virtue of framing the right narrative, which gerryoat helped me do wonderfully. (Basically, I asked gerryoat to cast a vote on me which LOOKED suspicious, and sure enough, Screenplay unvoted immediately after said vote.)

My narrative is tailored to those who are alive. My D6 scumplay would never have held against Ginngie, but my D1 scumplay DID hold against Ginngie, at least well enough where she wasn't out for my head. Because she was dead, I could pull stunts that I wouldn't have otherwise been able to pull.

One of the scariest points in the game for me was when it looked like Vaxkiller might be replaced. A new slot could be a trade downward in skill, but more likely would have been someone trading UPWARDS in ability, someone I

hadn't

prepared a narrative for and would have difficulty doing so in live time.

My scumplay didn't need to fool you because you were already dead.

If you were alive then Screenplay would have been dead, meaning I wouldn't have a guilty on me, and further meaning that the entirety of my D6 play would have been different. My D6 play revolved around me having a guilty investigation on me; if that guilty didn't exist, I'd have not been playing the same way. My scumplay in a world where you were alive and Screenplay was dead would have been a completely different animal.

Even had you been alive, I also knew that you with an accurate guess wouldn't be getting it entirely. If you had one scum the other would likely be out of sight. Even IF you had both, you had previously suffered from being blocked. That the town was willing to block you (entirely without me on that wagon mind you) was indicative also of willingness to mislynch you and frankly I can out-argue you any time I want. It simply wasn't necessary since we decided that you were overall the best kill if out of no other reason because you'd be annoying.

We honestly could have killed anyone that night, frankly. At that point we weren't really thinking of the absolute best because as far as we were concerned...there wasn't any absolute best, all options were equally as viable. Whoever we killed was going to be a player who was mislynchable. Whoever we didn't kill was going to be mislynchable in mylo. If we had let you live though, our strategy for what we'd do would be different.

[drealmerz7]

you've barely played with me and to say you can out argue me is quite arrogant

if I'd been alived I'd have exposed you readily as the full of shit scum that you were and gerry would have been next

[drealmerz7]

no point arguing about whatifs of here

next game I'm not going to be so quiet with my suspicions about you though if I have them - I thought I had another Day alive at least (just not used to getting NKed and having to factor that into my play!)

pretty sure I will be able to peg you as scum easily having seen you at 'the top of your scum game' and seeing right through it and having a clear picture of how you operate as scum

[mastina]

I just don't get it

You don't get it because you don't understand how scum manipulate the gamestate. Until you do, you'll never progress as a player.

You can be the most obvious scum in the world, but if you can make the town not want to lynch you, that's all it takes in order to win.

I didn't need to look town to the dead.

I needed to not look like scum to the living.

And even when Screenplay voted me he admitted that by play I didn't look like scum, essentially. (In fact he investigated me expecting to investigate town.)

Scum win by making town think other lynches are better options.
I did that. And I did it incredibly well.

I also was raising valid points. I was scum, yes. But I raised questions which nobody could give answers for. Nobody gave reasons for why my play was scum. Nobody gave me who was my scumbuddy, essentially. Now me being logical, me being reasonable to the point where my points have no flaws in them, is actually a huge fucking scumtell of mine. (Not that I was gonna let you know that during the game. ) But the simple fact is that--objectively speaking--I WAS raising points for why I was town.

And those points were left uncountered. Even had you been alive, you wouldn't have countered them. Even had you been alive, you wouldn't have answered my challenge. I was playing pretty close to how I would as town, and thus had a lot of reasons backing me for why I would be town. (Including lacking the support of a scumbuddy, since gerry was bussing me. No scumbuddy support is a towntell of mine under normal circumstances so I was absolutely justified in bringing it up as a point in my defense.)

You wouldn't have been able to pick up on the 10% differences between town and scum and emphasize them. And I guarantee you, had you focused on something I legit do as town, that would spell the death of your attempt to lynch me because I'd be able to show I do it as town. There

were

things which made me blatantly scum. But I was raising points which were suggesting strongly that signs indicated I was town. You don't get it because you don't get that those things matter. It's subtle nuances in arguments which make the difference. Controlling the flow of how things go.

The separation between town and scum is not usually obvious. It's not in how you react.
It's in the details. It's in the smaller stuff. And I'm not talking about "slips". I'm talking about what a person is doing, versus what a person should be doing as an alignment.

[mastina]

Mastina I think you did well. You did exactly what you should have done. Give reasonable doubt. Even if we got your lynch to go through I don’t think Gerry would have been under suspicion.

<3

[mastina]

IT WAS NOT REASONABLE THOUGH!!! not in the slightest

I MADE it reasonable.

That's what you don't get.

Maybe from a technical standpoint it wouldn't look reasonable.

But I MADE it look reasonable. I MADE people have doubts. I MADE people second-guess.

If reasonable doubt doesn't exist naturally, my job as scum is to CREATE it. And I did. I created a narrative, and I

backed it with evidence

. That evidence was something which was 90% true. I wrote a narrative which was utilizing something mostly the truth. Something which is mostly the truth is, inherent in its nature, going to appear reasonable. I told you during the game: "The best lie is the truth". I told the truth, and turned the truth into a lie. Making reasonable, out of something not reasonable.

A narrative which has no evidence you can call bullshit. A narrative which is backed by seemingly-hard-facts is much harder to call bullshit. I gave the facts, and while the narrative was not lock-solid because it did contain a lie, it was still mostly true. And mostly true is enough to make "reasonable doubt". Doubt, off of a reasonable level of evidence presented to make people think what happened may not have happened thanks to contradictory evidence.

[drealmerz7]

I just don't get it

You don't get it because you don't understand how scum manipulate the gamestate. Until you do, you'll never progress as a player.

nooooo

you don't even understand what I meant there

geebus

my scumgame is far beyond yours, actually

no, you didn't make it reasonable, you wore the will of people down by giant walls of 'ugh'

whatever, you just like to see yourself talk I don't have the energy to engage with that

[mastina]

most likely, that's a bunch of bullshit, and then it just kept piling on! oif

The thing is, it WASN'T bullshit.
It was 90% the truth.
Mostly true, with just a slight deception thrown in to avert the catastrophic.

I could spin a narrative because I had a strong grounding upon which to do so: something which was

actually true

. If the truth is on the side of the scum--and it was--then it makes the scum look much better because they can give evidence without lying, without bullshitting, without the need for piling lie on top of lie on top of lie. I never did. The position I held remained the same all day. I received a result late. Screenplay received no result. I introduced a falsehood in stating I blocked an investigative action, the 10% lie in an otherwise-true story.

With the truth on my side, reasonable doubt was around. Yeah there was a lot of bullshit I spewed. But people who were calling what I was saying bullshit were also themselves saying a lot of bullshit, because I legit, genuinely, had a grounding in reality. Grounding in reality = contradicts the existing guilty = reason to doubt the guilty.

I did exaggerate when I said I don't lie even as scum. It's more accurate to say that as scum, I make use of truth manipulation, exaggeration piled on top of subtle rearrangement of facts. And yet that strategy works. Time and time again. Because if you tell the truth, at least mostly the truth. Then the town will have an innate way of KNOWING you were telling the truth. The town can sense it. They have something of a sixth sense when it comes to feeling genuineness. And as scum, I was genuine.

If you think otherwise, that's a failure on your end. Because I wasn't insincere. The whole time, I was genuine in virtually everything I said. So with genuine posting, I made people think that it was possible I wasn't scum.

[mastina]

you've barely played with me and to say you can out argue me is quite arrogant

It's not arrogance.

It's experience.

There's only a handful of players in the current site meta who can out-argue a scumastina.

Sure!
Yeah.
Out-arguing a town-mastina is, indeed, fully possible. I am reasonably okay at town, but my lack of self-control as town more or less is self-sabotaging. (I do try to work on it. I don't succeed very well because I'm too damn impulsive and that's never going away even if its absence would make me ten times better as town.)

Yet as scum I HAVE that self-control. I know precisely when I need to post and when I need to not post. I know when I need to be around, and I know what I need to do when I'm around. (See also, I tailor my arguments to my audience.)

Is it possible for me to lose a scumgame, yes. It is.
But I've yet to lose an argument (even in spite of losing) as scum since playing on mastina. Every single time, I've won. Star Wars, WWF, my fight with Marluxia/Nacho in Organization XIII (a great example of "winning the battle, losing the war" so to speak in that I beat him and got my mislynch but couldn't carry the game solo since my scum partners were both long-dead...butstill, I out-argued fucking NACHOMAMMA8 of all people), this game on every day we had a lynch, heck even in The Mystery at King's Landing (for what little value arguing as a traitor had).

As town sure I lose bundleloads of arguments. I lose them more than I win them.
But as scum I've not lost once. Mostly because I choose to make arguments only when I know I can win. And if I can't win an argument, then I make a way for me to not need to win it. (AKA, I fucking nightkill the player I'd be incapable of out-arguing. )

And personally speaking for the record.
Your track record when it comes to arguing for scum lynches?

Not so great.
Even assuming you're actually arguing for the lynch of scum...pray tell, how many of those do you actually get?

For instance, what was the game-deciding (mis)lynch in the aforementioned Mid-Scummer Night's Dream?
The scumteam didn't even need to all be on that lynch because enough town were willing to lynch you. Do you blame the entire town for that? You certainly don't think you got out-argued by scum given your stance on LLD.

So absolutely yes.
If I had to fight against you, I would win, were I to even feel that necessary.
I mostly wouldn't.

Because it doesn't matter how fucking accurate your reads are.
If you don't understand the process by which town players...well, process information, you'll be unable to sway them to your side against a scumteam with inside information. I've yet to see evidence of you having ever done so. The opposite, in fact; I see you blame it on the incompetence of those players consistently ranting at how it's their fault. And as long as you're blaming them, you won't be winning yourself any favors over others.

[mastina]

no, you didn't make it reasonable, you wore the will of people down by giant walls of 'ugh'

Those walls weren't 'ugh'. You call them 'ugh' because I was scum.

But the walls contained actual valid points.

I was raising good reasons for me to not be scum.

And guess what? The person most prominently dismissing the wall as being "ugh" was gerryoat...who was scum.

So that even furthered my narrative, my point as being valid, increasing my stance.

The walls weren't just words of bullshit.
They had actual logic backing them.
They had reasoning. They had justification. They had grounding in reality.
They were saying something which was

not accurate

, yes.
They were selling a narrative of a gamestate which wasn't the full actual case.

But they had a basis in actual facts.

And as long as you think they didn't.
You'll never understand why it worked and I won.
Because you'd be clinging to something which wasn't actually the case.

When I wrote the walls the key to my success was that they

didn't

have "ugh" in them.
The key to my success is that I kept things relatively simple and reasonable. I kept things close as could be to the actual reality.

And that is the polar opposite of "ugh".

I did spam my points a lot.
I did post a lot.
And I am naturally verbose.
These might make you FEEL like going "ugh" to what I write.
But the actual

content

of what I write was anything but.

[drealmerz7]

you realize I don't come from this site and that current site meta doesn't apply to me, right?

I didn't put the work in in midscummer night's dream because LLD was so obvious scum I thought we were going to lynch there and wallah, again, terrible town losing the game, had nothing to do with good scum play - this is usually what happens, I think scum are more obvious than a bunch of stupid fellow townies and I overestimate fellow townies for being able to see what I'm seeing

your arrogance is really pissing me off and again, I don't have the energy to fully engage it

know I will destroy you (: disbelieve it and

keep underestimating me, it's just going to work to my advantage

oh, and I play on nacho's level, I don't have the same experience, but, where I come from, nacho is just above average, nothing spectactular, just fyi

[Ginngie]

YOU DONT PLAY ON NACHOES LEVEL LMAO

[Katyusha]

you realize I don't come from this site and that current site meta doesn't apply to me, right?

oh, and I play on nacho's level, I don't have the same experience, but, where I come from, nacho is just above average, nothing spectactular, just fyi

[Maki Harukawa]

Would've never saw that team coming tbh gg scum

[Maki Harukawa]

Sorry Screen I fucked up on mastina I would've lynched gerry over her but I was prob never lynching her ggwp

[gerryoat]

As soon as we flipped scum together, we both knew to bus. It was very fun

[Maki Harukawa]

atrocious job, town, atrocious

maki...get your head out of your ass in regards to gerry, thanks

Gerry wasn't the issue here but thanks your opinion isn't noted.

[gerryoat]

Yurkin was mvp tho for town. Almost single handedly beat us

[Maki Harukawa]

you have no idea how subconscious bias you are when you know all the answers you say "this is obv" and "I would see this" when really you don't know that because when you're looking at a puzzle with all the pieces in it paints a dif story then the truth itself
If fitz and screen want to shit talk me I fully understand but dreal you need to kindly shut the fuck up

[drealmerz7]

no actually I'm way more self aware than that

and knew it before I got spoiled

[gerryoat]

I don't think anyone here had me and mastina as a team, so no one should be blaming anyone that was in the lylo

[gerryoat]

@something smart what would have been my upgraded role?

[drealmerz7]

I absolutely did, gerry

became obvious when all other team options made zero sense and I had a no-doubt SR on mastina early and it hit me the Day before I got killed "ohya they're just together and JR was pushing the bus"

thought I'd live another Day and be able to expose you both

[gerryoat]

Yea ok lol

[drealmerz7]

I don't really care if you believe it, know it's true though