Mini 2032: TAZ Mafia: Murder on the Rockport Limited [over]

[Gamma Emerald]

Fair enough

[xyzzy]

amnesty

whoa hold on I still have like 5 more games just in the Balance arc, and that's if I

don't

do one based on the live shows (which would definitely be called "Live Stunt Spectacular"). it'll be a long time before I can get to TAZ Mafia: Amnesty, and that's not even including TAZ Mafia: Four Sherlock Holmes and a Vampire (Who Is One of the Aforementioned Sherlock Holmes), which will be at least 3 games

[Gamma Emerald]

Lol what

[skitter30]

amnesty

whoa hold on I still have like 5 more games just in the Balance arc, and that's if I

don't

do one based on the live shows (which would definitely be called "Live Stunt Spectacular"). it'll be a long time before I can get to TAZ Mafia: Amnesty, and that's not even including TAZ Mafia: Four Sherlock Holmes and a Vampire (Who Is One of the Aforementioned Sherlock Holmes), which will be at least 3 games

these sound awesome

i enjoyed the setup and gacha and gold thing
and i thought you were an awesome mod

[Lycanfire]

Technically nolynching in general is stupid. If it actually helped town, scum would just nokill.

No lynching here was only really compounding the "checklist" town was spiraling down. Playing by a checklist is really, really fishy, because it isn't just speculative play, it's presumptive. That's why I brought up Reasonably Rational: I remember how that hydra was rigging the outcomes of town's plans in Steven Universe 2.

I'd say here it was a good idea, if not for obvscum NSG. Scum should no-kill, but the kill was really indicative that NSG was going to go down and somebody was looking to lategame. Throwing it back in the other court is very much an "expect nothing" play, which would have been fine, again, if the evidence pointing to NSG wasn't as obvious and loud as it was.

[xyzzy]

speaking of: if you still haven't looked into the podcast this game was based on, please do! it's so good. you'll laugh a lot and then you'll cry and then you'll laugh some more. Aubrey Little is the bisexual icon we deserve in 2k18

[Lycanfire]

Technically nolynching in general is stupid. If it actually helped town, scum would just nokill.

No lynching here was only really compounding the "checklist" town was spiraling down. Playing by a checklist is really, really fishy, because it isn't just speculative play, it's presumptive of its outcome. That's why I brought up Reasonably Rational: I remember how that hydra was rigging the town's plans in Steven Universe 2.

I'd say here it was a good idea, if not for obvscum NSG. Scum should no-kill, but the kill was really indicative that NSG was going to go down and somebody was looking to lategame. Throwing it back in the other court is very much an "expect nothing" play, which would have been fine, again, if the evidence pointing to NSG wasn't as obvious and loud as it was.

[Lycanfire]

how do i delete post

[Lycanfire]

that's what i get for make sentence wrong

[Nosferatu]

I actually shouldn't play any more games for a while.

looking back I actually hate myself for just fucking over everyone like that because I was upset.

I shouldn't have let myself do that.

[Shoshin]

Your ego is too big to admit that you did dumb shit all throughout the game and the you were scumsiding like 50% of the time.

I never scum sided. You're actually delusional if you think that.

[Shoshin]

Varsoon is wrong that the no lynch caused the loss. It didn't.

It could have. If scum had an extra killing role. Or if they received a killing item from gacha. But those things didn't happen. And so the no lynch didn't actually do anything harmful to town... all it did was narrow the pool of potential scum.

The loss was mostly caused by Nos playing really poorly, not just by mislynching me over NSG, but by mislynching Irrelephant, mislynching Reck, pushing a mislynch on Gamma throughout the whole game, and by strongly townreading Pork throughout the whole game for no apparent reason, as well as using his role on Pork.

[Varsoon]

@Shoshin: You never would've had to worry about getting into that Lylo situation where Nos throws, though, if you had just lynched NSG in MYLO. Like, yes, the reality is that scum didn't get/have an extra kill, but as a player you couldn't have known that and it wasn't safe to assume that. I'd say "don't ever assume a no lynch is the best plan for town in games I run" but I've recently made no lynching literally not an option because it makes it easier to balance/design games around mechanics like gold-gain, role growth, end-of-day rewards, etc. This game should have not had a no lynch option, imo--there's already the 'randomized' swing of the gacha and what its rewards were, so compounding that atop no lynch mechanics introduced a potential for way too much swing in this setup.

I actually shouldn't play any more games for a while.

looking back I actually hate myself for just fucking over everyone like that because I was upset.

I shouldn't have let myself do that.

So long as you promise to not do it moving forward, I wouldn't give you a hard time over it.
Like, yeah, I'm frustrated for being this invested in a game that was, in the end, largely lost due to your play, but it's just a game.
So long as you accept ya done goofed and you work towards doing better in the future, it should be fine.

[Varsoon]

I am excited for whatever games you run in the future, xyzzy, regardless of the beef I had with this setup. I feel invested in your growth as a moderator and I enjoy the whimsical flavor that you write.

[Gamma Emerald]

Also I need to stop quiting on reading games

[Nosferatu]

Your ego is too big to admit that you did dumb shit all throughout the game and the you were scumsiding like 50% of the time.

I never scum sided. You're actually delusional if you think that.

I'm really tired of talking to you but if you honestly think you only made pro-town decisions and this game was entirely lost because of me, then there's no helping of you.

Lynching kokichi was scumsiding because you didn't lynch actual obv scum that even I pointed out.
No lynching instead of lynching nsg when both of us agreed it was obv scum was scumsiding.
You say that me sticking to scum!gamma til the end was throwing but at the end of this game you also thought gamma was scum.

I'm not here to blame you for losing the game because in the end my actions are what directly led to them.
but you should have the self-reflection to see that you were also making pro-scum decisions with the intention of winning the game.

[Shoshin]

@Shoshin: You never would've had to worry about getting into that Lylo situation where Nos throws, though, if you had just lynched NSG in MYLO. Like, yes, the reality is that scum didn't get/have an extra kill, but as a player you couldn't have known that and it wasn't safe to assume that. I'd say "don't ever assume a no lynch is the best plan for town in games I run" but I've recently made no lynching literally not an option because it makes it easier to balance/design games around mechanics like gold-gain, role growth, end-of-day rewards, etc. This game should have not had a no lynch option, imo--there's already the 'randomized' swing of the gacha and what its rewards were, so compounding that atop no lynch mechanics introduced a potential for way too much swing in this setup.

It was pretty obvious scum didn't have another killing role after Gooey's.

Again, it's a matter of weighing risks vs potential rewards. I understand that you are more risk averse than me, but that doesn't mean my decision to take a risk was wrong. In this specific instance, had we given gacha to town and had skitter used her role on town, we would have been in a really strong position to win after NSG's lunch.

I admit that I never imagined Nos would do what he did, and maybe that was wrong of me, I'm not sure yet. But I disagree with you that the no lunch was "bad," it was simply a different way of weighing risks than you. It's a judgement call that didn't hurt town in this game, and in a different game, might have been game-winning. To be sure, in some games it could be game-losing. That's why it's a judgement call that you make on a case by case basis.

[Shoshin]

The situation where NSG isn't lynched in LYLO never occurred to me as a realistic scenario. And 99% of the time, it wouldn't have happened. Attacking my play because of an unpredictable scum side from Nos isn't fair imo

[Varsoon]

There literally no way you could know if scum had a killing power after Gooey's or not because this is a closed non-normal setup.
You're willing to believe a moderator would design a setup where scum gets a day-vig but it's somehow unbelievable that they may have a way to get another kill up their sleeve?

I love taking huge risks in games, but I think the risk you really should've taken here was over lynching NSG/losing versus No-lynching/Dealing with another night in this setup.

Anyway.
You are aware one of the gacha prizes was literally a vigilante shot, right?

[Varsoon]

It never occured to you that someone might fake a guilty or even have a false-guilty on a town player, claim that, and then one town votes there, leading to both scum to hammer?
For instance
Let's say Porkens faked a guilty on Nos
And Gamma votes Nos in that situation
Loss
Easy.

[Varsoon]

This is a game that has public role redirection mechanics, too.
Let's say you got the cop.
Let's say your cop results gave a false guilty on Nos.
What keeps you from voting Nos in that situation and losing game over voting NSG?

[Varsoon]

Nevermind that you know for a fact that Switcheroo is a thing in this game.
Let's say that scum has a factional mechanic to gain some gold every night.
Scum get just enough gold for a switcheroo because you gave them an extra night.
You lynch on NSG but it switcheroo's out to you.
Game over, scum win.

[Varsoon]

Let's say scum has any one of several hypothetical roles that could exist in a non-normal setup.
Let's say that this role is superior to the ones town had left over.
This role somehow wins them the game in LYLO.
It's not great design
Doesn't mean it's not something that might exist.

[Varsoon]

Scum numbers were never confirmed to town.
Let's say that Nos is a scum traitor but doesn't know his allies.
No lynch lets scum narrow it down to enough for them to have an assured voting majority so long as Nos votes town.
Traitor-Nos votes town in LYLO.
You lose again.

[Varsoon]

This setup was confirmed to have only have two factions.
Were you considering that when you went into your lylo calculations?
Many setups don't make such a confirmation, however.
Let's say this setup had a survivor.
You've now lost in LYLO again.