Mini 579 - The Plagues of Egypt Mafia - Over

[HackerHuck]

Could we get a prod on SlySly please?

Unvote: Stoofer
Vote: Guardian

How can SlySly be the other scum when he hasn't posted yet? It has yet to be a week and this game hung on N0 for a while, so he may not have noticed that it opened yet. While I like the effort of your posts, it seems pretty early for a lurker witchhunt.

I'm going to write-off Lord_hur and Pyrodwarf's speculation on flavour as newbishness. I remember doing the same thing in Old Maid mafia - one of my first couple mini games - and I was quickly (and falsely) labeled as scum. It did help me survive to endgame though.

I don't like the play of the vampire so far. His inconsitent attacks are quite scummy, but I almost get the feeling he's playing like TCS and just trying to stir the pot. IGMEOY Herr Kürten.

Shin is just playing a little too safe for me. It's very early on day one and no one is even close to a lynch. I don't see any reason not to be putting votes to people because you don't want a quick lynch.

I do find it interesting how a few people did want to move past the discussion about the early speculation on mechanics/flavor. As long as we're not speculating, but discussing the scumminess/towniness of those who speculated and attacked others for speculating, I think it's a very valid discussion.

[Guardian]

'the

other

scum'? explain the use of the word other, please.

and you like the effort of my posts? I appreciate it, but which posts are you referring to? I only see like, two, at the max, that required effort.

[HackerHuck]

Well, you picked up on hasdfgs with an actual case and the other person you identified as scum is SlySly, hence the "other scum".

[Guardian]

oic. but I could be wrong about cow, no?

and yeah, slysly is a hunch. or something.

[Mr Stoofer]

I think I am just going to start ignoring what thevampireofdussledorf says for now because he is talking such nonsense. The point about lord_hur seeming to have more information was one which no-one had made before I did. Whether it was right or wrong it was clearly a good point to make. I have asked thevampireofdussledorf to explain why I merited a FOS, and whether he thought my point was a good one or not, but his responses have been incomprehensible.

My vote stands.

[Mr Stoofer]

Also, I want to put the following point on the record:

If we do not lynch thevampireofdussledorf today, we should lynch SlySly.

[Singing Librarian]

I'm with Mr Stoofer. thecampireofdussledorf is making little sense to me at all, and is by far my strongest suspicion as I re-read through the game. Guardian's case on hasdfgas is interesting, but I feel he has been more helpful than the vampiric one.

vote: thevampireofdussledorf

[lord_hur]

While I don't like VOD's playstyle as well, let's not lynch him (or anyone else for that matter) too soon : he's already at L-2.

The day is very young, and I'm sure there are many interesting things we could learn.

For example, I'd like a few precisions :

@Guardian : your only contribution so far has been your stating that qasdgfas is scum. In the light on the posts that followed this stating, do you maintain it ?

@HackerHuck, whose only 2 meaningful posts before his attack on Guardian had been attacks on me for reasons I qualified as quite defective. You just wrote off your first attack, but do you still think the second was justified ?

@Mr Stoofer : do you still think I know more than you ? Also, you said something that leads me to think you know more about the setup than me : you only said that scum would know more than the others, but why do you seem to be thinking that eventual town special roles do not know more than vanillas ? Why did you only associate my alleged superior knowledge with scum ?

@Musher333 : hmm hard one, didn't notice anything that wasn't on point. I'd just like more analyzing and accusations, if possible (if just so I get things to ask hehe).

@PyroDwarf : about your taking my speculation as just that, for now : what conclusion will you draw if one or more things I speculated over (a resurrector role, a poisoner role, 1 plague each night) is/are confirmed ?

@Shin Hatsubai : Why do you think it would be bad for town to let the day drag on too much ? What could be the damage, if everyone stays active and provides accusations and answers (in which you are arguably behind everyone else) ?

@Singing Librarian : more activity please (only 4 posts, and your only attack had been following someone else). Also, you qualified Guardian's attack as interesting, could you tell me in which way ?

@thevampireofdusseldorf : it seems your "unconventional playstyle" as you qualify it has so far gotten you 4 votes. Do you have an idea on precisely what caused us to vote for you ? Will you consider modifying your playstyle ?

[lord_hur]

Bleh, for some reason I skipped hasdgfas :

@hasdgfas : What do you think of Guardian's accusation ? Also, as everyone said, more analyzing would be appreciated.

[lord_hur]

Oh, also :

@all experienced players : does the fact that kabenon007 died first night give us any hint on his scummyness? (never faced night 0's myself)

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Mr Stoofer why do you wish to have on record you want to lynch someone who has not posted yet in this game?
I appologize others can not make sense of me but is that reason to think I am scum. Either I have done something obviously scummy or I am just hard to understand?
Ignoring a player is ok if you have a very certain read on them as scum. Now your most recent post Mr Stofer has some obvious frailties in it.....

The point about lord_hur seeming to have more information was one which no-one had made before I did. Whether it was right or wrong it was clearly a good point to make.

It wasn't really a good point at all as here it is:

The following quotes make me think that lord_hur knows more about this setup than the rest of us (or at least: more than me).

And here is Mr Stoofers comment about it:

What I meant was this: Scum inevitabley know more about the game than the Town. They are the informed minority. And they often cannot stop themselves from showing how clever they are by successfully "guessing" aspects of the setup.

So from this and what I have said earlier all this is saying is:
"he is scum and I am town"
Thus I think it not a good "Point" in fact it was not a point at all but a crafty accusation.

I have asked thevampireofdussledorf to explain why I merited a FOS, and whether he thought my point was a good one or not, but his responses have been incomprehensible.

Ok I can see why you may have become a little frustrated

FoS:Mr Stoofer for trying to add more weight to an already suspicion laden person. Not that there is anything wrong with that if the suspicion is merited

Ok so I did deem lord_hur to be suspicious but that does in no way mean I cant be suspicious of someone who also finds lord_hur suspicious. And I did find the way in which and the timing in which Mr Stoofer joined in on the lord_hur discusion suspicious. The comment about "if the suspicion is merited" was to see what sort of reaction I would get from Mr Stoofer, as a townie they would certainly believe that the suspicion was merited but as scum they would know it was not so here are the reactions from Mr Stoofer:

You gave lord_hur a "HoS" back in post 19, so you obviously think he is suspicious, but when I express suspicion of him, that earns me a "FoS".

Also, why is my suspicion not merited?

Please answer my question.

What on earth do you mean "overburdening of him"? What am I supposed to do if I see a player who is behaving suspiciously? Keep quiet about it. What is more, nobody had made the point which I had made so it would have been anti-Town for me not to have mentioned it.

I ask you again: tell me - yes or no - was my suspicion merited?

So to me it seems you were very much concerned about if your suspicion was seen as merited or not when in fact I would believe you to be the only person to know if it was or not, to the rest of us it is just perception.

If you have certain things you do not understand please ask me and I will try and make them clearer.

[Mr Stoofer]

@Mr Stoofer : do you still think I know more than you ? Also, you said something that leads me to think you know more about the setup than me : you only said that scum would know more than the others, but why do you seem to be thinking that eventual town special roles do not know more than vanillas ? Why did you only associate my alleged superior knowledge with scum ?

Now that you have discussed your speculations, I think that they are so way off target (e.g. 12 plagues = 12 nights) that I no longer think that they are based on "extra" information. I tend to believe you when you say you were merely guessing. If your guesses turn out to be accurate, however, then you can expect me to be very suspicious. But at present I see it as highly unlikely that your guesses are right.

I am not sure that I understand your second/third questions. Generally, giving away extra information is a Scum tell, rather than a Power-Role tell (did you look at the wiki link?). That's because Scum are super keen to appear helpful, while Power-Roles tend to want to stay hidden. That is why I normally ascribe extra knowledge of the setup to scum, when it comes out day 1. But you make a fair point -- pro-Town Power-Roles may also be able to work out the setup more easily.

[Mr Stoofer]

@all experienced players : does the fact that kabenon007 died first night give us any hint on his scummyness? (never faced night 0's myself)

No it doesn't. Assuming that he was killed by Scum, it just means that the Scum picked him out for a kill. Some Scum try to target experienced players/good scum hunters because they are the most dangerous foes; others target Newbies because they are unlikely to get Doc protection Night 1; while others kill players against whom they have a grudge.



Also:

gibberish

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

It was just an unconventional start and you might have noticed, (or at least I believe) I am settling down to a more refined style of play. I also have comments and questions for others in this game which would be hopefuly seen as active scum hunting. I have in no way settled on who I think is scum at this stage (unlike some of you seem to have done) and wonder why some are so hasty to come to a judgement of others. Anyways those voting me is it for something in particular that I have done or is it "style", "feeling" or some other of these weak reasons?

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

@Mr Stoofer do you wish to comment on my post or would you rather ignore it?
There is one question which I think is not too hard for you to answer:

Mr Stoofer why do you wish to have on record you want to lynch someone who has not posted yet in this game?

@Everyone I have made a few interesting points about Mr Stoofer who does not appear to be interested in replying, but perhaps others might wish to think and post about what I have said.

[lord_hur]

I am just hard to understand?

Hell YES. Be more concise and to the point please. Think about every sentence, and don't be afraid to re-read and suppress and unnecessary word.

[lord_hur]

I am not sure that I understand your second/third questions. Generally, giving away extra information is a Scum tell, rather than a Power-Role tell (did you look at the wiki link?). That's because Scum are super keen to appear helpful, while Power-Roles tend to want to stay hidden. That is why I normally ascribe extra knowledge of the setup to scum, when it comes out day 1. But you make a fair point -- pro-Town Power-Roles may also be able to work out the setup more easily.

Yes, this is what I meant. Thank you.

I agree with the general idea, but I just want to add that although it's true that SOME scum will naturally try to appear useful, it sure is not always the case. Take Quitex in that last game for example : he was spouting mainly gibberish and voted way too fast, and was not appearing *very* useful to town by any standard. I have other examples in mind, but can't use them as the games are not finished.

Also, some players naturally try to be active and helpful in all their games, regardless of their alignment or power-role, just because that's how a good vanilla would appear.

So I think what you say is very interesting, it is *far* from being an absolute truth.

[Shin Hatsubai]

1) Why do you think we need another night to get a better feel for this game? Don't you think we can use 1 day to find scum? It seems to me like what's more important to you at this point is understanding the game as opposed to finding scum.
2) You don't need to make a "snap decision" as to who is scum. In fact, that's one of the worst things you could possibly do. It should be a more well thought-out decision as opposed to just deciding hastily.

1) Sorry the "needing another night" comment was more for getting a feel for the actual game play itself, which is all up to undo. I think it is of course in our best interest to use day 1 to find the scum, because it can (and has been) done. I feel that now I am getting a better grasp as to the situation by reading more posts.
2) I understand that it should definitely not be a snap decision regards to who is scum or not, because on day 1 there is a higher chance of lynching a townie. The reason I used snap decision was because at that point in reading the posts I was not completely sure who I thought could be scum... but after reading more posts after I feel that my

FoS on thevampireofdusseldorf

still stands.

@Shin Hatsubai : Why do you think it would be bad for town to let the day drag on too much ? What could be the damage, if everyone stays active and provides accusations and answers (in which you are arguably behind everyone else) ?

I think by letting the day drag on to find suitable answers is completely beneficial for the town. The reason why I brought this up was because in past mafia games I played, the deadline for day was placed pretty quickly on the thread if we went too long. I didn't mean to encourage a hasty lynch.

I am a very play it safe player, especially on the first day. I know it looks like I am all talk and no action, but I would rather mill things over and read the discussion before making the final decision as to who to vote for.

[Musher333]

That's because Scum are super keen to appear helpful, while Power-Roles tend to want to stay hidden.

I normally find that both want to appear hidden though sometimes scum are over active.

[Musher333]

I am just hard to understand?

Hell YES. Be more concise and to the point please. Think about every sentence, and don't be afraid to re-read and suppress and unnecessary word.

To add to this i will tell you something i was told in my last game, Preview is your friend.

[SlySly]

Someone's hunch is without merit. Pretty much been on unexpected V\LA, will contribute more soon after a read through.

[Guardian]

tvod, I hope you are scum because then my comment would be very interesting indeed. I'm not really getting why you're at lynch -2 with 2 fos's though. hopefully I'm just blind and you are indeed scum.

lord hur, cow has posted once since I made my case, so no my stance hasn't significantly changed.

SlySly, did you or someone in a group you are a part of kill kabemnon last night? Why or why not?

[lord_hur]

lord hur, cow has posted once since I made my case, so no my stance hasn't significantly changed.

I wasn't talking about his post only, but others' comments too. I'm thinking "no" will be your answer anyway though.

[Mr Stoofer]

tvod, I hope you are scum because then my comment would be very interesting indeed.

It's not rocket science Guardian. We were in the middle of a discussion about tvod, when out of nowhere you built a very confident case on hasdgfas based on (IMHO) not very much. It just struck me when I read that post that it could be an attempt to divert attention away from the growing tvod wagon (especially since I think tvod is scum). So if tvod turns up as scum, then that is what I will think.

Of course, phrases such as "tvod turns up as scum" kinda assumes we will find out his alignment if/when we lynch him

[lord_hur]

Someone's hunch is without merit. Pretty much been on unexpected V\LA, will contribute more soon after a read through.

After all this time, I for one expect a nice big meaty post...

Also, your question :

@SlySly : In your opinion, should lurkers (in general) be considered as scummy, playing anti-town, both depending on on the circumstances ? Why?