Mafia 75: Return of the Mafia! TOWN WINS (really late)

[Battle Mage]

^this.

[Battle Mage]

So here's what I'm seeing.

BM is tunnel visioned on someone he told me earlier I was giving too much respect to.

TS is ignorant of the current game state because she replaced.

CKD is the voice of reason.

I can see truth in all of this, apart from the last point. Clearly it is you, and not CKD who is the voice of reason here.

My read on scum Lloyd is he is much more productive than town Lloyd. This is from one game, so it may be off, however I believe it is accurate. Current Lloyd in this game is fairly non-productive aka probably not scum. I will look into this further later.

Interesting read. However, there is a certain case to the end that Lloyd has tried to be VERY productive. With his proxy scheme, vote table, and general content, he has certainly been full of ideas, even if they havent actually been that helpful to hunting scum.

NO ONE, I repeat, NO ONE should hammer KS.

Finally, a question.

Mod: What time zone is the 9pm deadline for?

That is all.

and Lloyd is right about the deadline. It doesnt really matter, although i am 99% sure the deadline would be GMT. Jordan isnt a dirty foreigner ya know!

Farside

, i'd like to hear your thoughts now ive posted the case on Lloyd.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Tries to instigate pressure on me based on semantics of grammar.

Why does that make Lloyd scum? I don't see pressuring you to be a bad thing, no matter the angle the player chooses to take.

Poor logic is poor logic. Trying to push something as scummy when it isnt, is scummy in itself. Why are you so desperately defensive of him?

Another example i also spotted of him pretending to scumhunt was that table of votes he provided. Again, a nice original idea, but it didnt lead anywhere, or help us atall, and again, when questioned about this, he failed to respond.

You might have something there. But that's all you got, really. Everything else amounts to a hill of beans. So his voting table lead nowhere. Yeah. Maybe that makes him scum.

I see no reason to halt the glorious Day 1 lynch of the SK for that.

I am not unvoting killa seven. Either farside or KS is the serial killer. OK they're both mindbogglingly stupid (well, farside's predecessor anyway) for killing Night 0. But the throat slashing gives it away, since we ought to pick one.

*sigh*
You are an idiot.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Ok Farside, i've refreshed my thoughts on OeJo and TLP, and of the 2, i'd much rather see TLP hang. OeJo made 1 dubious post, whereas TLP had a really scummy backtracking phase. I can see a TLP-Kill tonight will actually tell us something, so i approve of that decision, although id still prefer a Lloyd-NK tbh.

Still want your response to my earlier comment.

BM

[Battle Mage]

viewtopic.php?p=327817#327817

lloyd proxied his vote to kelly chen, who voted for him twice using both votes. he ended up getting lynched and was a townie

Here was his reasoning for using that proxy:

"Since this day has dragged so long, I'm starting to lose interest. Thus, I want to proxy my vote to Kelly Chen, and she can decide on behalf of me."

No such reasoning was given here.

Has Lloyd ever proxied his vote as scum?

BM

[Battle Mage]

PBPA of oEJo:

Post 0: Attacks newbie for saying "I'm new, I'll probably be stupid". Nothing invalid here.

Post 1: Bunch of cult stuff, all reasonable. The kicker is

I believe Battle Mage mostly. Not due to meta or anything, I just do. He could be more of a threat though, later on in the game if he's alive.

Mildly odd, just believe him because.

Post 2 & 3: Starts lurker wagon on TNE under the logic he is not hunting scum, therefore he is not town.

Next several posts are all good logic about not true random voting, defending BM, etc.

Post 13: Votes Charity, an obviously pretty bad wagon IMO. Pretty clear its just a newbie mistake to me, not a scummy one.

Post 14: Hops to killa. Sure, w/e.

17: Hops to Imat after the killa wagon grows to fast.

19: Votes Lloyd for being dumb.

In retrospect, oEJo is not that scummy. His votes are logical, the main issue was his lurking which was solved via replacement.

This gives me significant town vibes. Scum are often reluctant to admit mistakes and openly backtrack.

@Farside-thanks for your prompt response. Maybe it is time we get a claim from TLP, if he is your number 1 vig candidate.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Scum typically is more commonly used to refer to Mafia. You are correct.

Incorrect. Scum is the collective of all anti-town roles. Saying an SK is not scum is like saying an SK is protown. 0.o

[Battle Mage]

I get the odd feeling KS isn't getting lynched today and that someone's trying to distract us from it. Why aren't we trying to convince people to hammer him, again?

K. Peers scum keeps wanting us to shut up so he can kill us.

lol that was my thought when i read his post too.

[Battle Mage]

We are still looking for a replacement. Deadline is still in 3 days.

Request Deadline Postponement till a Replacement is found.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Jack, please second my deadline postponement request. we dont want to lose another power role at this stage, and want a claim out of TLP before he gets vigged.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Jack, please second my deadline postponement request. we dont want to lose another power role at this stage, and want a claim out of TLP before he gets vigged.

Why is TLP on auto-vig? Let the vig not kill TLP. What's so complicated? Why get a claim from another player? What if he's the doctor? He doesn't need to claim unless he's run up a wagon. I'm not liking this directing the vig, and extracting claims for nothing.

Umm, the Vig wants to kill TLP, and personally i dont want another power role killed without a claim. In case you hadnt noticed, we have a Vig, and a half decent Vig is gonna kill someone. That being the case, we want them to claim before we go to night, kapish?

BM

[Battle Mage]

alternatively Farside, i think vigging TS might be a sound long-term strategy, regardless of her affiliation.


BM

[Battle Mage]

Umm, the Vig wants to kill TLP, and personally i dont want another power role killed without a claim. In case you hadnt noticed, we have a Vig, and a half decent Vig is gonna kill someone.

I've never seen anyone, EVER, pushing for someone to claim on penalty of being vigged. Especially someone in need of replacement.

We have a vig doing Night 0 kills, and outing roles? Geez...

Dont be a flippin idiot. We have a claimed vig who knows who he is gonna kill tonight. Why the feck wouldnt you want the target to claim!?

I dont approve of vigging someone who hasnt claimed. Apart from possibly TS, in which case it is a sound movement regardless of role.


BM

[Battle Mage]

Farside, please second the extension request.

Otherwise, if TLP isnt replaced before the deadline, you'll have to rush a claim out of either Lloyd or TS.

BM

[Battle Mage]

thx Armlx

[Battle Mage]

yep, i agree.

Vote Count Updated

[Battle Mage]

actually, reading a game i just replaced into, my newfound meta of Peers would indicate that he ALWAYS acts this scummy. 0.o

[Battle Mage]

no. lol

[Battle Mage]

although id be tempted to see you NK TS, i must admit.

[Battle Mage]

given his avatar? what do u mean?

[Battle Mage]

His avatar says Hammer time.....

Much like Rosso's is a penguin with a HAMMAH!

Avatar is hardly an indication about a players ability. Id be pretty offended if someone said just because i dont have an avatar, im equal in ability to a newb who just joined up this week.

What did you think about Ruler's question?

BM

[Battle Mage]

I am laughing at how Lloyd argues with a deadline extension that increases his chance of living, though I believe it increases his town odds.

I agree its funny, but i disagree with it making him look more town. 'Giving Up' is widely regarded as a pretty basic scumtell. I can actually see him thinking 'well, we can lose 1 goon and gain a vig and its still a pretty good swap'.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I love you too, BM.

See, folks... this is a case of two players with different styles. BM thinks I always act scummy, but sometimes I act scummier than others. I, however, think that scum or town, BM tends to act in a logical fashion that fails to take into account that Mafia players are people and not emotionless machines.

So in other words... If BM thinks I need to claim or be vigged, I'll tell 'em to go sit on it and rotate, regardless of if I'm scum or not. And he won't know if I am or not. Because, really, if I claim town... what does that do? Nothing. You get to start debating on if I'm town telling the truth or scum fakeclaiming, or even a power role trying to fly under the radar. What does claiming do for me? Nothing -- if you think I'm scum, you'll still think I'm scum. What does claiming do for the town? Just causes more confusion. I'm either scum or town, and if my claim changes your mind, you're playin' in a weird way.

this is a reasonable argument, but it neglects the following scenarios:

You claim a confirmable role
You claim a power role that we consider worth the risk to keep around

But i concede that claiming vanilla is practically the equivalent of sealing your own coffin. lol

BM

[Battle Mage]

im already on killa so no vote required.

FOS BattleMage

. If the rest of the town id going to claim not vig, that forces the vig to claim, which has happened. I would rather have left the decision in his hands

I didn't particularly like that either. I also don't like how everyone just went along with it.

It was for the best.

Based on my play, how much do you trust me?

Ok, so you'd be among the top vig targets considering your claim... And you're now directing the vig. Well, good luck I guess.

Feel like directing the roleblocker too?

You fail at breadcrumbing...
And ftr, i hope protown power roles have more sense than to target me tonight. That includes BOTH the aforementioned. Ugetme?

[quote="BM]Do you trust not just my affiliation, but my JUDGEMENT, enough to give me the benefit of the doubt on tonights vig choice.

The answer to this question will have a surprising significance to the game.

I don't think it can have a surprising significance really. Although if your scumdar is off you're pretty much dead with the effective killing of a player without giving any reasons yet.

The only thing about this which irks me is the reason you give tomorrow has to be good... And even if you are right you may have to fend off some accusations about telling someone to vig your scumbuddies.[/quote]

I've given plenty of reasons already. Accusations of that nature will have to be far more well-founded than what you are suggesting. At the end of the day, anyone who attacks or defends a player, is subject to the 'WIFOM of Mafia'. If you attack someone and they die as scum, it was bussing. If they were town, it was a simple mislynch. The same is true of defending players.

At the time Lloyd gave me his vote, alot of people were paying attention to what i was saying, and i was leading the way to some extent.

When did this stop? Are you not making our second kill choice for us now? Has there ever been a point in this game where you were not "leading the way"?

when TS replaced in?

if u let me live ill vig kill whoever the town wants me 2 kill

If Jesus decended from the heavens and saved you from lynch you'd still get roleblocked, sorry man but you're a dead man walking at the moment. However you are going through some of the stages of grief...

Denial Anger Bargaining Depression Acceptance

We've seen the denial, you seem to have skipped anger and replaced it with trying to get out of it by making the counterclaim look bad (which failed miserably), that right there is bargaining... So now all you're missing is depression and then you hit acceptance.

Ok, really wishin u'd shut up now...

See the way I look at it I will probably be dead tonight. I mean typically the scum want to take out power roles. They know mine so I would like to go out shooting. I was actually hopping Lloyd would come back and answer questions directed to him at this point. Also if I think someone is scummie and they turn out to be a power role and I target them is that not bad for the town TS?
@Peers: Why are you in a hurry to end discussion? Did you not see I'm trying to make a wise choice for the town before the end of the day?

I'm so glad you are the vig and not Toaster Strudel... Anyway, while you may be dead tomorrow, a half decent doc should keep you alive. (Hopefully the doc isn't roleblocked or something.)

Ffs. Are you like, the least subtle guy EVER?
If we are to make the unlikely assumption that we have a Doctor, it is probably wise that any prohibitive power roles i.e. Roleblocker, do not use an action tonight.

We are still looking for a replacement. Deadline is still in 3 days.

Request Deadline Postponement till a Replacement is found.

BM

2nd.

3rd. Don't need any more dead power roles.

4th'd. Not only do we need a possible claim from TLP (or said replacement) discussion, even if the day has been extremely long, is usually good, especially on the track we are going. Also, I support a TS vig if we don't get a claim from TLP and the extension isn't granted.

And, for clarification if a vig is NK'd their kill will not count, but if an SK is NK'd their kill will? Or would the kill count regardless of vig or SK role?

5th request.
If the mod doesn't respon to the extention request I'm leaning towards Lloyd.

6thed.

----------------------


If KS lived he's get roleblocked and vigged, his kill wouldn't go off because of the roleblock.

But someone dying doesn't stop their action from happening. Protections, kills, blocks, etc still go off as normal.

[/quote]

-.-
Never seen anything so transparent in all my life. You just lucky im town. 0.o

[Battle Mage]

Deadline extended till Saturday 29th March 9.00pm GMT. This is absolutely final and will hit whether or not Tlp is replaced.

Thank you for the extention. I think Lloyd's recent comments are anti-town. To give up on day one and refuse an extension is highly questionable. What makes him think that no matter what he is dead?
Please stop directing any possible doctor or RB in this game. Let them figure it out.

plus the fact that he has still failed to answer any of the issues concerning his play. Im finding it incresingly hard to see him as town here.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Can someone explain to me why we need a deadline extension? What more are we trying to wring from the crushed sponge that is Day 1? We have found scum, of that I am certain. Surely we are not considering accepting his "I'll kill who you say" deal? Can we lynch killa7 already?

Appeal to Emotion.

[Battle Mage]

OK, though I can't see this game being a popular candidate to replace into! 49 pages and counting day 1!

are you kidding me? this game is my favourite game atm, and i have the shittest role ever. lol

IGMEOY: Whome?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Can someone explain to me why we need a deadline extension? What more are we trying to wring from the crushed sponge that is Day 1? We have found scum, of that I am certain. Surely we are not considering accepting his "I'll kill who you say" deal? Can we lynch killa7 already?

The general concensus is that killa's grave is already dug and ready for a final nail in the coffin. Now, we're discussing hopeful vig kills and an extension would give time to replace TLP so we aren't accidently vigging a power role or leaving scum to coast through.

you cant vig a power role if im dead.

are you working for the prosecution now? rofl

BM

[Battle Mage]

NEVAR!

[Battle Mage]

glad to hear it. This isnt anything personal-you seem like a really nice guy. Just the aim of the game is to kill scum, and sadly, thats what ur role pm said.

Who do you currently think is scum?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Can someone explain to me why we need a deadline extension? What more are we trying to wring from the crushed sponge that is Day 1? We have found scum, of that I am certain. Surely we are not considering accepting his "I'll kill who you say" deal? Can we lynch killa7 already?

Appeal to Emotion.

i thought an appeal to emotion was when someone was under pressure?

Not necessarily. An Appeal to Emotion (or any other 'Appeals') can occur when a player is emotional about a particular end. In this case, you seem very very keen to see the day cut short in a Killa-lynch, to the point of over-stating it.

BM

[Battle Mage]

hey Xtoxm, nice to see ya.
Welcome to the greatest game!
But sadly now, its my role to tell,
that we all await your claim!



BM

[Battle Mage]

hey Xtoxm, we hope you're well,
Welcome to the greatest game!
But sadly now, its my role to tell,
that we all await your claim!

Edited for better rhyming properties.

Skitzer, you rock!

[Battle Mage]

It must suck replacing into a game where everyone's ready to kill you.

yeh but just coz hes now someone cool, it doesnt mean we can afford to let him off. Xtoxm has a similar meta to Rosso, and to some extent, myself, and is thus very hard to read, and its probably better that we assess him this way.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Skitzer, do you think we have a Doc?

[Battle Mage]

5??
how do u figure?

[Battle Mage]

Well, it's avery slight possibilty, but...

Mafia
SK
2 vigs (neither farside or killa is lying)

oh...that is 4. I can't count, still, I'd hope there is a doctor.

if neither Farside or Killa is lying, we dont have an SK.

lol

back to 4 at most-probably 3.

BM

[Battle Mage]

hmm its a tough claim. I mean, a vanilla claim is believable, and i cant see scum replacing into a game, knowing that they are about to get killed, is going to claim something that is likely to seal their coffin.

Time for a Lloyd-claim?

BM

[Battle Mage]

see Xtoxm? I TRUST you.

[Battle Mage]

do you trust me?

[Battle Mage]

would you rather we vigged him and found out for ourselves?

BM

[Battle Mage]

would you rather we vigged him and found out for ourselves?

BM

whats that smiley for?
I was asking a sarcastic question to Peers, not making a suggestion...

[Battle Mage]

*sigh* ill explain tomoz

[Battle Mage]

How sure are we that killa is scum?

Farside if you're vig why didn't you just wait to NK him at night if you knew him to be lying?

100%

I can see what you're saying, but this was not a circumstance where Farside had a gut feeling he was mafia, and it might have been a contentious decision. We know Killa is scum, and dont want to give him an extra NK (as he is probably the SK).

Furthermore, why do you think Lloyd is scum?

BM

[Battle Mage]

I have no reason to believe he is scum a have not looked at a single of his posts yet.

It was more of a joke seeing as the alternative is me.

what if he was a power role?
please give these jokes some more thought... 0.o

[Battle Mage]

How sure are we that killa is scum?

Farside if you're vig why didn't you just wait to NK him at night if you knew him to be lying?

they dont, they think im the sk, but im a vig

SK IS SCUM.

[Battle Mage]

*sigh* i agree with you Farside, but id feel happier seeing Killa lynched today, and Lloyd vigged tonight. That at least gives Xtoxm the chance to do something.

Lloyd, you should claim now.

BM

[Battle Mage]

*sigh* i agree with you Farside, but id feel happier seeing Killa lynched today, and Lloyd vigged tonight. That at least gives Xtoxm the chance to do something.

Lloyd, you should claim now.

BM

I still didn't and don't care for TLP's deadline comments. Now Lloyd disappeared and didn't want an extension. It's like I want to flip a coin since neither is convincing me of their innocence.

if u arent sure, its best Lloyd claims anyway.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Woah, Killa, what did you mean by the role blocked comment? Did I miss a Mafia Roleblocker claiming or was this a slipup from you? I mean, it doesn't matter seeing as how the general consensus is for your lynch, but if you are Mafia and not a roleblocker this is very telling of what kind of roles your partners may have.

And I'm rather certain the viggee isn't a real role.

rofl. If i had space, i'd sig that last comment. I shouldnt laugh though-you do raise a valid point. Can Lloyd be serious for long enough to actually help the town?

So far Lloyd has jokingly claimed as a Mason Miller and a viggee, going anywhere with these claims?

BM

[Battle Mage]

I started replying to this last night, but got distracted. Lets try again.

farside, what you seem to be asking, is that if i was in your position, what i would do.

if i was in your position, i would be trigger happy and shoot battle mage and see what happens. worse case, a miller is lost. best case, a scum is shot.

I dont suppose this has anything to do with the fact that i've been attacking you an awful lot recently. Are you 100% sure this isnt just pure OMGUS?
Here's a helpful timeline of events:
I claim Miller
Lloyd gives me his vote for the day (with the obvious assumption that he thinks i am town and will put it to good use).
I start saying Lloyd is scummy, and pose him some questions, which he doesnt answer.
I suggest him as a Vig target, and he continues to be evasive and lurk.
Now as day draws to a close, Lloyd suddenly pops up and attacks me, out of nowhere it seems.

Do you see the trouble im having buying this? You've completely U turned in the space of 1 or 2 nothing posts.

And i also dont understand your choice on a basic level. This is a pretty newbie heavy game in comparison to other large games. We lost some of the more experienced players on Night 0. Why would you want to eliminate more, ESPECIALLY 1 who has already been instrumental in nailing at least 1 scumbag!?
I'm one of the most active scumhunters here, and as we discussed earlier i believe, we should leave the more experienced, contributing players in the game a while, with the theory that the scum might be forced to start killing them off if they are town, and we dont waste lynches.

for what it's worth, i now think battle mage has a night power

Woah Woah Woah, hold your horses!
You think i have a night power? Yet, just 1 sentence ago, you said:

worse case, a miller is lost.

I'm gonna ask this again, because i just cant get my head around it. If you think, for some inexplicable reason, i have a night power, DESPITE my claim, why the fuck would you suggest vigging me???
0.o

given him asking people to claim "not vig"

Had we not done that, we would not have been by any means sure of Killa being scum.

then, upon finding two claimed vigs...asking xtoxm and i to claim

Erm, with a claimed Vig, who is almost certainly going to get killed tonight, it makes sense that he should be absolutely certain about his NK. Furthermore, given the amount of powerroles we have already lost, do you really want to risk losing more unnecessarily? More claims arent exactly going to hurt us at this stage. As you and TLP were the two most popular targets for NK, it makes sense for you two to claim, so we can further analyse your affiliation and value to the game.

then pointing out nemesis' breadcrumbs.

They were hardly breadcrumbs. The Pogroms were more subtle! 0.o

it doesn't match up with his miller claim though. and yes, he'll continue to claim miller until he's lynched in this game...

Yeh, oddly enough i dont intend to change my claim. Kinda a null-tell dontcha think?

I dont get what "doesnt match up to my miller claim".
Nothing you've pointed out so far is anything other than me attempting to scumhunt. It poses no relevance on my role whatsoever.

Oh and i dont think i mentioned earlier, but have you really thought this through?
I mean, if i was protown, but not a miller, wouldnt claiming miller be the dumbest thing in the world?
I mean, it casts instant suspicion on me, and i become the easiest mislynch ever. Its suicidal as a townie! As a power role, it is damn well game-wrecking. Saying i'd do something like that is not only the height of idiocy, but its downright insulting.

anyhow, i claimed viggee. you should make up your opinion / position about who you want to shoot. it's your prerogative.

Quick question: anyone else seen a protown role called 'viggee'?
If not, who votes for Lynch all Liars?

on a completely unrelated note, being a bus driver in mafia games is fun.

If this is a serious claim, please go into as much detail about the specifics your role as possible. and claim who you targetted last night please.

Original Roll String: 1d25 (STATIC)

1 25-Sided Dice: (10) = 10

Original Roll String: 1d25 (STATIC)

1 25-Sided Dice: (3) = 3

---
sweatpantsninja, i appreciate your defenses, but i try to play each game differently, regardless of my alignment.
---
armlx, thanks for your defense and in modding random mafia 2, that was fun!
---
toaster strudel, likewise, thanks for your defense about my null tells, but you typically defending people who are being attacked - that's your null tell

Gee, this nearly brought a tear to me eye. Unfortunately, the fact that you are thanking unconfirmed players, with no comment on whether they are scum or not, is in itself, a slip methinks.

battle mage, having fun with your double-vote? maybe you can convince undecided to proxy votes to you, so you can hammer killa seven right before the deadline

Rofl. Again, someone hasnt been paying attention. Why would i want to hammer Killa Seven before the deadline, dimwit?

BM

[Battle Mage]

battle mage, how come so many claim requests today?

anyone else you want to ask to claim, but haven't asked yet?

just remembered that you also asked matt to claim earlier.

Still waiting on Matt's claim.

In case you didnt realise, i'm a miller. I dont get to do much at night. As such, it kinda makes sense for me to try and hunt scum during the day, no?



BM

[Battle Mage]

then pointing out nemesis' breadcrumbs. it doesn't match up with his miller claim though. and yes, he'll continue to claim miller until he's lynched in this game...

I agree with this. The day I want BM dead by changed from a generous 6 to 4 after that.

In that case, i want an explanation from you, as well as Lloyd.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I don't like millers, especially when they are just plain millers. Is BM ONLY a miller? If so, I'd like him gone a lot faster than armlx does.

no, i'm a SUPER-MILLER. I'm actually a MillerDocMasonCopRoleblockerWatcherTrackerJailkeeperHider. Oh and did i mention i'm also unNKable, and in order to keep things interesting, i have a 3-shot SuperSaint ability, which means the first 3 people to hammer me die, and i only die on the third attempt.

You do make me chuckle TS. And the hypocrisy is irresistable.

BM

[Battle Mage]

FOS those 2 trying to get rid of BM like that.

You apparently missed the 20 pages where I argued this point before getting other people to realize BM can NOT survive to the end of the game.

No, i believe Xtoxm is referring to the opportunistic way in which you hopped on Lloyds craplogic in order to send suspicion my way. Just thought i'd mention that, before you get too high and mighty with the new kid.

[Battle Mage]

Oh, sure, you trust him when he says he's a vanilla townie... (

This is because WIFOM is fun. I'm sure BM said claiming vanilla townie was like sealing your own coffin... Or something of that nature.

I do recall that is correct.

for what it's worth, i now think battle mage has a night power,

This is obvious. He asked not to be roleblocker, a miller with no night actions wouldn't give a damn, would probably like to be roleblocked as it clears him of killing.

I did WHAT?

However, at the start of the game we were discussion whether BM was a miller and [insert powerrole here], it wouldn't be that unheard of to have a miller thief or something.

I believe ive already responded to this.

Well I haven't seen the claim, but to my experience miller's seem to be pretty come in these big type games, i'm sure there'll be one here.

It's not certain there is, but BM claimed and no one countered.

Also BM did claim after the cop died, which makes him look a little better, although backup cops in games this large are not that unusual.

True.

I don't like millers, especially when they are just plain millers. Is BM ONLY a miller? If so, I'd like him gone a lot faster than armlx does.

I think we went over this earlier and he didn't feel like telling us.

Although after calling me "obvious" and whatever else he did, he said the roleblocker should take no action and said he wouldn't like to be roleblocked. Thus he claimed a night action.

Again, i do not recall asking not to be RBed. I merely said that, with the possibility of a Doc, RBing an unclaimed player is a bad plan.

BM

*will respond to more later. Going out now.

[Battle Mage]

Wait, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't we have 3 claimed vigs now?

farside22
killa seven
Lloyd

They all claimed. Now if this is true, that means we would've had a possibility of 6 kills on the first night.

Mafia
SK
Cult
3 Vigs

Let me tell you something. Someone is lying.

FoS: killa seven

FoS: farside22

FoS: Lloyd

As far as i can tell, Viggee is not Vig. lol

BM

[Battle Mage]

farside, your current approach of only vigging non-power-role-claimers will have 0% chance of vigging scum. Scums, knowing that, will claim power roles.

I dont believe that Farside has declared such an approach, at least not with the intention of sticking to it. Its WIFOM as Nemesis has already pointed out. You are putting words into his mouth.

I'm now against battle mage because his behavior has gotten 5 claims out on day 1.

Is that including ridiculous breadcrumbs, and clearly bogus claims. Viggee? What are you smoking?

His motivation is suspicious for asking for multiple day 1 claims (including the "not vig" ones) and pointing out breadcrumbs.

Its called playing Mafia. Have you even read a full game on this site yet!?
If you had, you'd see that claims are an integral part of the game, and getting scummy people to claim is what we, as a town, do.

Pointing out breadcrumbs is a nulltell. If i was scum, i would have no reason to point out breadcrumbs, likewise as town.

So far, we've had 3 deaths, 5 claims, that's 8 out of 30 people. At this rate, all 30 roles will be revealed / claimed by day 4.

And thats inherently bad, why exactly? 0.o

If everyone end up being revealed / claiming by day 4, it will be in scums' interest, because mods typically design games so early mass claims benefit scums more than it would benefit town.

No, mods design games so that early mass claims arent game-breaking. Ive modded games before in which a mass claim benefits the town. Who's to say this isnt one of them?

In summary, everyone...stop claiming and breadcrumbing (unless you are at lynch minus 1)...thanks!

oh sorry, i forgot you were in charge here. I always get confused when scum tries to go uber-aggressive and take control of the undecideds.
Although i support the message about breadcrumbing.

BM

[Battle Mage]

At last! I found one game where armlx isn't scum.

the irony is biting, it really is.

[Battle Mage]

@Lloyd: So you don't believe his claim even after the discussion on day one? I already agreed with you about his claim happy moments, but I don't believe he is the play tonight. You have given many people things to think about. I believe I too am ready for the night phase. I have made a my choice and feel I found many interesting things during these few days.

If Lloyd doesnt die tonight, you are off my christmas card list.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Rosso, you are a ****ing dumbass. I think an explanation should be forthcoming.

In other news, no scum NK. Its possible that the RB blocked the NK, but im thinking this is unlikely at this point.
Farside, thanks for trusting me, i feel really bad about letting you down. -.-
But on the bright side, you're still alive

BM

[Battle Mage]

i think Rosso might be claiming Cult Cop. Or at least i hope he is.

[Battle Mage]

i think Rosso might be claiming Cult Cop. Or at least i hope he is.

Thats what I assume as well.

how does that make you feel?

BM

[Battle Mage]

i want to hear from Rosso and Nemesis.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Vote: Rosso Carne

I'm about 99% sure of his guilt. I'll explain why later on tonight. The evidence is pretty near irrefutable.

[Battle Mage]

If BM is a miller, then RC's claim corroborates his story.

If BM is a cultie, then RC's claim proves this.

This is the problem with miller claims. But the fact that a claimed miller was found guilty by investigation should make him no more or less liable to be lynched. And the fact that he was found guilty as a member of a scum faction whose

delayed

recruiter was killed yesterday speaks toward his townness.

FoS: TSPN

[Battle Mage]

well, I think when BM claimed Miller he didnt think he would live to see end game or rather he should have known that he shouldnt see end game, but there are still 25 people around and not lynching him today is hardly letting him ride to end game.

that being said, I am interested in what Rosso has to say about the question posed to him.

QFT. If i'd been dead today, its highly unlikely you'd have been able to spot Rosso-scum based on the meta.

Armlx, your logic is poor. As far as i can tell, your claim hasnt been confirmed yet, and neither have the roles of the majority of the players. Seeing as we've lost our cop, and maybe have 1 more investigative role out there, the odds of even 1/4 of the players being confirmed are slim.

TS, is just being TS. Not alot else i can say there. Although, overnight i have spoke to Mith about installing a filter whereby you can totally remove all comments made by a particular player. He's looking into it.

I still want to hear from Nemesis. I'll explain my Rosso vote tonight.

BM

[Battle Mage]

What, you disagree?

No, i find your defense of him scummy. Not to mention your attempt to get me lynched on the basis of his claim.

I'd also like to hear Armlx's reason for voting Rosso. Just so i know you arent just tagging along, ya know? :p

BM

[Battle Mage]

actually, scratch that. Armlx probably IS seeing the same thing i am. (i had to check back to see who was in the game). lol

[Battle Mage]

actually, scratch that. Armlx probably IS seeing the same thing i am. (i had to check back to see who was in the game). lol

I forgot you were in the game as well. Hence the reason I thought it was a different reason.

i forgot you were too. lol
For some reason, i had a feeling TSPN was, but upon examination, this is incorrect.

[Battle Mage]

If BM is a miller, then RC's claim corroborates his story.

This is complete and utter insanity.

Why on Earth would a player investigate a claimed miller? In case he gets an innocent result?

There is zero game logic in investigating a Miller.

I buy neither the claim, nor the night choice.

Also, a cult cop would announce all his innocents, not just the latest one. Being cleared of being cult doesn't mean confirmed town. Clearing them from being cult doesn't make them a NK target in any way, shape or form.

vote: Rosso Carne

Oh and this reminds me, Armlx, aside from our meta knowledge, DO WE REALLY WANT A CULT COP WITH SANITY ISSUES, AND WHO DOESNT EVEN READ THE GAME, WHEN THE RECRUITER DIED NIGHT 0?

My vote is confirmed, but Armlx, for the benefit of everyone here, do you reckon its acceptable for us to reveal our meta knowledge of Rosso, even considering the nature of the game?

Mod please

Prod: Nemesis, Farside

Done

BM

[Battle Mage]

Happy Birthday Dahill1

i want to hear from Rosso and Nemesis.

BM

Well I don't have much to add about the night's events to be honest. It is entirely possible you give me too much credit... Or too little... I am not sure.

We were missing a scum NK. You claimed RB. I think it may be slightly useful to know who you targetted.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Happy Birthday Dahill1

i want to hear from Rosso and Nemesis.

BM

Well I don't have much to add about the night's events to be honest. It is entirely possible you give me too much credit... Or too little... I am not sure.

We were missing a scum NK. You claimed RB. I think it may be slightly useful to know who you targetted.

BM

I may have given you too much credit then. I claimed nothing of the sort. Your eagerness to look for things that arn't there made you presume I claimed Roleblocker. I mention a key role and all of a sudden I'm it?

Before you completely misread my posts I actually made it pretty clear I'm not the roleblocker.

Here is the post that was a far more obvious and a way earlier claim.

i figured in a game this large there would be more sum players so the chances of hiting a scummy player would be more likely. i killed jive machine, i was allowed to pick any style of killing as long as it was realistic. so i picked throat slashing.

Oh God why? Throat Slashing screams SK.

If you are still allowed to pick any type of kill, kill me tonight by shooting me with a Sniper Rifle. (I was going to say shotgun, but that's been taken... Unfortunately Ex army has access to my "protown kills" as SK" *sigh*)

It was incredibly lucky of you to kill the anti town person. Congratulations. Out of all the kills that one was you.

We could have backup vigs, vigs, all kinds of stuff. I don't really like the claim.

Ninja edit: Apparently I'm not the only one here with a deathwish... I'm assuming you have the same role I do Lloyd, I'm cool with being killed tonight, if you do not have the same role I have, I ask you let me die instead.

So why didn't I correct you earlier? Simple, I'd rather have died than the vig. But thank you BM for getting yet another claim out of someone. This time all it takes is a false assumption. I'll grant you that I had pretty much claimed earlier, but you apparently missed it. Now it is unmissable, have fun with that.

And for the record, next time I mention a role in one of my posts, I might not actually be it.

you genius... your reasoning is disgraceful.
So what happened to our missing kill?

oh and with reference to the question you posed to me earlier, you might want to consider potential motives of my comments. If you still think it is worth discussing openly, then you may proceed.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Meh, what I assumed, BM's assumption was 30% valid, 70% him jumping to conclusions. Seconded only because if Nem was an RB, he should tell who he blocked.

BM: Actually, a doc hasn't died yet, so its possible the mafia WIFOM'ed themselves out of a kill as well by attacking Farside when he was protected.

Or possibly Nemesis.
Also, i was kinda under the impression that the BG was a primary protecting role.

Nemesis, why did you full claim. All you had to say was BM, you are dumb, if I was RB I would have already come forward and left it at that. Or made up some argument about how coming forward as an RB could lead to a mislynch given the lack of a dead doctor.

I dont understand this. You are complaining that he claimed vanilla, or that he denied being an RB?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Nemesis, why did you full claim.

4: It is highly likely that the mafia noticed the claim when I first made it and thus gambled on the doc: A: agreeing with BM about my role and B: thinking I was more important than the claimed vig.

I dont understand this. If this was the case, the Doc would have protected you last night. How the f**k is that a GOOD THING?
Armlx, dont think i'm gonna avoid calling you out on stuff like this either. I'm keeping my eye out for stuff like agreeing with someones shoddy reasoning, because you havent actually read it.

6: I can use this later to defend myself a tiny tiny bit.

Use what to defend yourself?

7: I didn't think BM would back down, and there was a tiny bit of me that wanted him to realize exactly how wrong he was.

Great prioritising. Personal vendetta>town performance. /sarcasm

So what happened to our missing kill?

Don't look at me, you might want to try the doc... Else the scum targeted someone unNKable.

UnNKable townies arent that common. We arent even certain we have another Doc.

[quote="BM]your reasoning is disgraceful

So now all you have to do is assume someone is a role and they

have to

correct you? What is to stop you doing that many times until you have enough information to piece together what we have, who is what, etc.?[/quote]

It was in the towns interest to correct me, if you didnt want our Vig dead.

you might want to consider potential motives of my comments. If you still think it is worth discussing openly, then you may proceed.

1: You thought the roleblocker would ignore you anyway.

2: You have a night action despite saying a number of times that you havn't.

3: You feared a bus driver?


No, I'm not quite there. Why would a miller ask the Roleblocker not to target them but instead to make no night action?

[/quote]

*sigh*
Ok, lets try a different question. Why would a Mafioso ask the RoleBlocker not to target them?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Nemesis, why did you full claim.

4: It is highly likely that the mafia noticed the claim when I first made it and thus gambled on the doc: A: agreeing with BM about my role and B: thinking I was more important than the claimed vig.

I dont understand this. If this was the case, the Doc would have protected you last night. How the f**k is that a GOOD THING?
Armlx, dont think i'm gonna avoid calling you out on stuff like this either. I'm keeping my eye out for stuff like agreeing with someones shoddy reasoning, because you havent actually read it.

No it wouldn't have been a good thing, but I am saying why I claimed then, not why I didn't correct you before. I am saying that the mafia saw what you didn't seem to have seen and thus the only people left that are confused are protown, so I may as well dispel the confusion.

2 things here. firstly, now night is over, was there any great point to you claiming at the start of today?
Secondly, how are you so sure that only town believed you are the RB?

But from the lack of a scum kill, would you say the above did not happen? To me it seems likely that it did.

No, its not likely atall. Its possible, but really the mafia arent THAT likely to be focussed on vanilla tells made at the start of day, 50 pages later, if they had noticed them atall. And even then, who's to say that by the same logic, the Doctor had noticed the 'claim', making it irrelevant anyway. Its all WIFOM.

And you misread my post. If what I suspect is true, the scum thought the doc would protect me when (s)he didn't.

I think this a rather short-sighted approach to the situation. I mean, what IS more important, an RB or a Vig? I know which i'd rather be, but its a matter of opinion, and its totally conceivable that this is what determined the choices-not your breadcrumb early on.

7: I didn't think BM would back down, and there was a tiny bit of me that wanted him to realize exactly how wrong he was.

Great prioritising. Personal vendetta>town performance. /sarcasm

There is no vendetta. What I mean is, you have misread something you have been sure of twice. You are making mistakes yet you continue to lead the town around about things you are sure of, when in fact everything you have been sure of so far has been wrong. Admittedly if you take enough shots in the dark, one is bound to hit.

Umm, this is grossly inaccurate. I've sent two people to the grave now. One was Vanilla, and one was SK. Overall, in a game with 1/4 of the players as scum, i'd say thats pretty damn good. If i was feeling in a statistical mood, id show just how good. Admittedly i was pretty sure about Lloyd, and was wrong, but everyone makes mistakes. Would you rather it was scum leading the town, or an imperfect townie?

your reasoning is disgraceful

So now all you have to do is assume someone is a role and they

have to

correct you? What is to stop you doing that many times until you have enough information to piece together what we have, who is what, etc.?

It was in the towns interest to correct me, if you didnt want our Vig dead.

I disagree.

You can disagree all you want. The fact is that you are wrong.

you might want to consider potential motives of my comments. If you still think it is worth discussing openly, then you may proceed.

1: You thought the roleblocker would ignore you anyway.

2: You have a night action despite saying a number of times that you havn't.

3: You feared a bus driver?


No, I'm not quite there. Why would a miller ask the Roleblocker not to target them but instead to make no night action?

*sigh*
Ok, lets try a different question. Why would a Mafioso ask the RoleBlocker not to target them?

BM

1: They have an ability they want to use.

2: If they must make the kill then they'll like it to go through.

3: Because they think that asking not to be targetted would ensure they are targetted and thus their partner could make the kill?

1. ok, what conceivable abilities could i have as scum?
Mafia RB? Nope, because a game with a Mafia RB does not feature a Town RB-its a broken setup.
Mafia Doctor? Who would i be that worried about protecting? lol
Please feel free to come up with some possible scenarios. So far, i cant see any.

2. Erm, we dont have any mafia dead yet. Why would 1 scumbag NEED to make the kill?

3. Thats WIFOM, and in practice, makes very little sense.

Keep trying.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I'm disliking the BM/Nemesis conversation. I'm getting vibes from Nemesis that seem to be saying "I know BM is town."

I am saying that the mafia saw what you didn't seem to have seen

It gives me a bad feeling.

I'm glad you mentioned this, as Whome was giving me the exact same vibes. Much as i enjoy being defended with pristine logic, he seems a little TOO sure of my affiliation, if you catch my drift.

BM

[Battle Mage]

umm why are you voting for Whome, when we have confirmed scum already? 0.o

A bit over-eager? lol

BM

[Battle Mage]

And you misread my post. If what I suspect is true, the scum thought the doc would protect me when (s)he didn't.

I think this a rather short-sighted approach to the situation. I mean, what IS more important, an RB or a Vig? I know which i'd rather be, but its a matter of opinion, and its totally conceivable that this is what determined the choices-not your breadcrumb early on.

Yeah, there's that... Or there is the fact that the vig was completely and utterly left wide open with a huge target on her.

Please explain.

7: I didn't think BM would back down, and there was a tiny bit of me that wanted him to realize exactly how wrong he was.

Great prioritising. Personal vendetta>town performance. /sarcasm

There is no vendetta. What I mean is, you have misread something you have been sure of twice. You are making mistakes yet you continue to lead the town around about things you are sure of, when in fact everything you have been sure of so far has been wrong. Admittedly if you take enough shots in the dark, one is bound to hit.

Umm, this is grossly inaccurate. I've sent two people to the grave now. One was Vanilla, and one was SK. Overall, in a game with 1/4 of the players as scum, i'd say thats pretty damn good. If i was feeling in a statistical mood, id show just how good. Admittedly i was pretty sure about Lloyd, and was wrong, but everyone makes mistakes. Would you rather it was scum leading the town, or an imperfect townie?

Stats can be twisted like nothing else. Anyway, I think you give yourself a little too much credit for the SK lynch. The Lloyd thing was all you at the start until ToasterStrudel pointed out that you might have been wrong. The "trust me, I'll give reasons tomorrow" approach is not quite what happened with the SK.

I pushed the wagon to the extent that it forced out a claim which allowed us to nail him. I think a significant degree of credit is deserved there.

Don't get me wrong, you are useful at the moment, if you were not then you'd be dead because of your claim. I have no problem with you scumhunting, it is just the conviction and the grip you have on the town that bothers me.

I'd rather the town not be lead, gently prodded perhaps, but not lead around after anyone as much as this. A townie doesn't know who is scum, so I wouldn't even like the town being lead by a mod confirmed townie.*

There are various exceptions to this, however a miller is not a cop or part of a 12 man masonry.

fair enough.

you might want to consider potential motives of my comments. If you still think it is worth discussing openly, then you may proceed.

1: You thought the roleblocker would ignore you anyway.

2: You have a night action despite saying a number of times that you havn't.

3: You feared a bus driver?


No, I'm not quite there. Why would a miller ask the Roleblocker not to target them but instead to make no night action?

*sigh*
Ok, lets try a different question. Why would a Mafioso ask the RoleBlocker not to target them?

BM

1: They have an ability they want to use.

2: If they must make the kill then they'll like it to go through.

3: Because they think that asking not to be targetted would ensure they are targetted and thus their partner could make the kill?

1. ok, what conceivable abilities could i have as scum?
Mafia RB? Nope, because a game with a Mafia RB does not feature a Town RB-its a broken setup.
Mafia Doctor? Who would i be that worried about protecting? lol
Please feel free to come up with some possible scenarios. So far, i cant see any.

2. Erm, we dont have any mafia dead yet. Why would 1 scumbag NEED to make the kill?

3. Thats WIFOM, and in practice, makes very little sense.

Keep trying.

BM

1: Scum could have virtually any ability. If you think that scum abilities are restricted to Doctor and Roleblocker you really need to play on IRC, it's amazing the stuff scum could theoretically have. Vote Stealer, Framer, Tracker, Switcher, Cheat, Redirector, Witch, etc.

This is a game modded by Jordan. In fact, it is his first large game as the primary moderator. This isnt scumchat or mafia IRC.

2: If the Godfather loses his unKNable ability or alway innocent ability

How is that even possible, and even if it was, how would it affect who made the kill?

... If the mafia are restricted in kills

All Mafia are restricted in kills. Normally 1 per night. It doesnt affect who makes the kill though.

... If his scum buddy had been culted

Scum cannot normally be culted, for obvious reasons. But, again, even if it were possible, we are probably looking at a mafia group of 4-5 people here. Theres still plenty of options.

... If his scum buddy was MIA and he didn't have the choice of sending him...

Usually, he would still have the option of stating that the MIA player would perform the kill. But even then, theres going to be plenty more buddies, not all of whom are going to be MIA. -.-

So far, you have failed to make ANY valid scenarios in which i would be scum, asking the RB not to target me. You've proven your own case invalid. Unfortunately you've rolefished to the extent that i have to now fully-claim. I'm not just a Miller. I'm a Miller cum Hider. Each night in order to protect myself, i can leave my house, and go stay with someone else, so if i am targetted by scum, i dont die, but if they target the guy im hiding with, then we both die. If I get Roleblocked, i wont be able to hide, and will probably die...

Happy now? -.-

BM

[Battle Mage]

because he's done the exact same thing before as scum. -.-

[Battle Mage]

the mod just changed his mind.

i now know that BM would show up guilty no matter what.

unvote

and can he please be vigged tonight. I'm tired of these exchanges with nemesis.

Unvote

Did Jordan say why he changed his mind?

There's something i want to look into. I'll be back in a sec.

BM

[Battle Mage]

bah im torn. Armlx, check the time stamps of the two games starting. only

1 day

separating them.

Much as id like to think that we just caught Rosso in the most retarded play ever as scum, i can actually see a case for him as town, on the grounds that his claim in THAT GAME was inspired by the role he recieved at a similar time, in this game. Cult Cop isnt a role ive ever actually seen outside of IRC, but it is potentially something Jordan could come up with. Rosso's subsequent posts also fit what i would expect of an exchange between him and the Mod.

Of course, much as my gut tells me he might just be telling the truth, i cant help thinking that he is a total waste of space. I mean, his role is useless, and he's basically vanilla to us, and even if he DID have a useful role, can we expect him to do anything even the slightest bit beneficial for us? Probably not.

Even now, hes pushing non-logic in order to force a fellow weak power role to the grave. I'd not be sorry to see him die, and id hate for him to be such transparent scum and we talk himself out of lynching him because of WIFOM. But, i'm no longer sure hes scum, and if he isnt, we need somewhere else to go, either with our Vig, or for subsequent lynches.

In light of this, i want to hear what you guys think we should do with him.

BM

[Battle Mage]

If BM is a miller, then RC's claim corroborates his story.

This is complete and utter insanity.

Why on Earth would a player investigate a claimed miller? In case he gets an innocent result?

There is zero game logic in investigating a Miller.

I buy neither the claim, nor the night choice.

Also, a cult cop would announce all his innocents, not just the latest one. Being cleared of being cult doesn't mean confirmed town. Clearing them from being cult doesn't make them a NK target in any way, shape or form.

vote: Rosso Carne

Thats a good point by TS (albeit a little while ago). Rosso, who did you investigate N0?

BM

[Battle Mage]

And you misread my post. If what I suspect is true, the scum thought the doc would protect me when (s)he didn't.

I think this a rather short-sighted approach to the situation. I mean, what IS more important, an RB or a Vig? I know which i'd rather be, but its a matter of opinion, and its totally conceivable that this is what determined the choices-not your breadcrumb early on.

Yeah, there's that... Or there is the fact that the vig was completely and utterly left wide open with a huge target on her.

Please explain.

Well the vig was unmissably the vig, a great deal of attention was drawn to her being the vig. She did seem pretty resigned to her fate and a great deal was made out of her probable death. She was by far the most obvious target.

That being the case, why did you think that the Scum would expect the Doc to target someone who was OBVIOUSLY less likely to be NKed?

you might want to consider potential motives of my comments. If you still think it is worth discussing openly, then you may proceed.

1: You thought the roleblocker would ignore you anyway.

2: You have a night action despite saying a number of times that you havn't.

3: You feared a bus driver?


No, I'm not quite there. Why would a miller ask the Roleblocker not to target them but instead to make no night action?

*sigh*
Ok, lets try a different question. Why would a Mafioso ask the RoleBlocker not to target them?

BM

1: They have an ability they want to use.

2: If they must make the kill then they'll like it to go through.

3: Because they think that asking not to be targetted would ensure they are targetted and thus their partner could make the kill?

1. ok, what conceivable abilities could i have as scum?
Mafia RB? Nope, because a game with a Mafia RB does not feature a Town RB-its a broken setup.
Mafia Doctor? Who would i be that worried about protecting? lol
Please feel free to come up with some possible scenarios. So far, i cant see any.

2. Erm, we dont have any mafia dead yet. Why would 1 scumbag NEED to make the kill?

3. Thats WIFOM, and in practice, makes very little sense.

Keep trying.

BM

1: Scum could have virtually any ability. If you think that scum abilities are restricted to Doctor and Roleblocker you really need to play on IRC, it's amazing the stuff scum could theoretically have. Vote Stealer, Framer, Tracker, Switcher, Cheat, Redirector, Witch, etc.

This is a game modded by Jordan. In fact, it is his first large game as the primary moderator. This isnt scumchat or mafia IRC.

2: If the Godfather loses his unKNable ability or alway innocent ability

How is that even possible, and even if it was, how would it affect who made the kill?

... If the mafia are restricted in kills

All Mafia are restricted in kills. Normally 1 per night. It doesnt affect who makes the kill though.

... If his scum buddy had been culted

Scum cannot normally be culted, for obvious reasons. But, again, even if it were possible, we are probably looking at a mafia group of 4-5 people here. Theres still plenty of options.

... If his scum buddy was MIA and he didn't have the choice of sending him...

Usually, he would still have the option of stating that the MIA player would perform the kill. But even then, theres going to be plenty more buddies, not all of whom are going to be MIA. -.-

I did not say it was, I simply said that restricting mafia abilities to 2 very common ones may force you to overlook others.

True, but ive challenged you to a valid exception to the rule, and you havent done so.

Well, the GF wouldn't want to loose those cool abilities and wouldn't want to make the kill.

This doesnt make any sense. Since when did the GF lose basic functions of his role by making an NK???? 0.o

Sorry, I meant restricted on who makes the kills. I'm sure I've seen a game or two with an order. (Rare yes, unprecedented no.)

Actually, this is the one valid point you have made. And this is the way more often than you might think. BUT, in such scenarios, the primary killer is ALWAYS the Godfather. And 95% of the time, this same Godfather is immune to investigation, which i am clearly not, having claimed MILLER. lol

Sometimes whoever sends the pm makes the kill.

VERY rarely is that an uncomprising rule.

So far, you have failed to make ANY valid scenarios in which i would be scum, asking the RB not to target me. You've proven your own case invalid. Unfortunately you've rolefished to the extent that i have to now fully-claim. I'm not just a Miller. I'm a Miller cum Hider. Each night in order to protect myself, i can leave my house, and go stay with someone else, so if i am targetted by scum, i dont die, but if they target the guy im hiding with, then we both die. If I get Roleblocked, i wont be able to hide, and will probably die...

Happy now? -.-
BM

It's not rolefishing when you say you definately are just a miller and do nothing.

Yes it is!!!

BM

[Battle Mage]

TSPN-You know which game we are referring to then?

Armlx- Link me to one which occurred recently. I havent been here as long as you, but ive played about 75 games on MS, and havent once seen that feature of the GF role.

BM

[Battle Mage]

ok. As long as Nemesis is willing to accept that unless he can provide a recent example of such a method being used, he cannot consider this a viable option.

BM

[Battle Mage]

n0 i didnt have an inv.

n1 i hit bm

bm is basically scum hiding behind a miller, so he ought to be vigged. kthx.

If you are telling truth about your role, and u got a guilty, then he is cult. Given that cult recruiter died N0, that seems unlikely, which would add weight to his actually being a miller, or am i missing something?

actually thats a good point, which i hadnt thought of. If Rosso is telling the truth, i cannot be conventional mafia. I must either be Miller or Cult.

BM

[Battle Mage]

n0 i didnt have an inv.

n1 i hit bm

bm is basically scum hiding behind a miller, so he ought to be vigged. kthx.

u didnt have an inv N0!?

i thought the idea of N0 was to give investigative roles a chance to get lucky?????
Ive heard of scum not being allowed to kill, but never town roles not being allowed to investigate!

BM

[Battle Mage]

or he's just an idiot. In light of this, i actually think a Rosso-lynch would be informative enough to make it worthwhile, as even if he is town, i am confirmed innocent.

[Battle Mage]

and mine. -.-

Vote: Rosso Carne

[Battle Mage]

TS how come you arent playing to your town meta here?

[Battle Mage]

this is Rosso. He's done it before. Nothing can really be considered TOO idiotic.

BM

[Battle Mage]

right, before we go to night, i wanna hear from Farside. Also, i need to decide who i'm gonna hide with tonight...

BM

[Battle Mage]

TS how come you arent playing to your town meta here?

Which meta do you want? The self-defeating hissy fit? The scumputer nobody believes in?

Yesterday was pretty much a slam-dunk.

The scumputer would be nice. Or the over-active paranoid grouchy sarcastic TS. Or the arrogant TS that complains about not getting NKed. :p

whats the deal?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Also, i need to decide who i'm gonna hide with tonight...

lolwut?

i take it u missed my claim.

[Battle Mage]

if there was such a thing as the kiss of death in mafia, this is it^^^.

You'll fire up the scumputer tomorrow? why do you think you will survive the night?

BM

[Battle Mage]

You really confuse me a lot sometimes.

i claimed Miller-Hider yeh?
So i need to hide somewhere tonight, preferably with someone who isnt gonna be Vigged.

Kapish?

BM

[Battle Mage]

lol kk

[Battle Mage]

And you misread my post. If what I suspect is true, the scum thought the doc would protect me when (s)he didn't.

I think this a rather short-sighted approach to the situation. I mean, what IS more important, an RB or a Vig? I know which i'd rather be, but its a matter of opinion, and its totally conceivable that this is what determined the choices-not your breadcrumb early on.

Yeah, there's that... Or there is the fact that the vig was completely and utterly left wide open with a huge target on her.

Please explain.

Well the vig was unmissably the vig, a great deal of attention was drawn to her being the vig. She did seem pretty resigned to her fate and a great deal was made out of her probable death. She was by far the most obvious target.

That being the case, why did you think that the Scum would expect the Doc to target someone who was OBVIOUSLY less likely to be NKed?

Because they assumed the bodyguard was the only protective role we had...

If what I suspect is true, the scum thought the doc would protect me when (s)he didn't.

This is what you originally claimed. You are still being markedly inconsistent.

you might want to consider potential motives of my comments. If you still think it is worth discussing openly, then you may proceed.

1: You thought the roleblocker would ignore you anyway.

2: You have a night action despite saying a number of times that you havn't.

3: You feared a bus driver?


No, I'm not quite there. Why would a miller ask the Roleblocker not to target them but instead to make no night action?

*sigh*
Ok, lets try a different question. Why would a Mafioso ask the RoleBlocker not to target them?

BM

1: They have an ability they want to use.

2: If they must make the kill then they'll like it to go through.

3: Because they think that asking not to be targetted would ensure they are targetted and thus their partner could make the kill?

1. ok, what conceivable abilities could i have as scum?
Mafia RB? Nope, because a game with a Mafia RB does not feature a Town RB-its a broken setup.
Mafia Doctor? Who would i be that worried about protecting? lol
Please feel free to come up with some possible scenarios. So far, i cant see any.

2. Erm, we dont have any mafia dead yet. Why would 1 scumbag NEED to make the kill?

3. Thats WIFOM, and in practice, makes very little sense.

Keep trying.

BM

1: Scum could have virtually any ability. If you think that scum abilities are restricted to Doctor and Roleblocker you really need to play on IRC, it's amazing the stuff scum could theoretically have. Vote Stealer, Framer, Tracker, Switcher, Cheat, Redirector, Witch, etc.

This is a game modded by Jordan. In fact, it is his first large game as the primary moderator. This isnt scumchat or mafia IRC.

2: If the Godfather loses his unKNable ability or alway innocent ability

How is that even possible, and even if it was, how would it affect who made the kill?

... If the mafia are restricted in kills

All Mafia are restricted in kills. Normally 1 per night. It doesnt affect who makes the kill though.

... If his scum buddy had been culted

Scum cannot normally be culted, for obvious reasons. But, again, even if it were possible, we are probably looking at a mafia group of 4-5 people here. Theres still plenty of options.

... If his scum buddy was MIA and he didn't have the choice of sending him...

Usually, he would still have the option of stating that the MIA player would perform the kill. But even then, theres going to be plenty more buddies, not all of whom are going to be MIA. -.-

I did not say it was, I simply said that restricting mafia abilities to 2 very common ones may force you to overlook others.

True, but ive challenged you to a valid exception to the rule, and you havent done so.

Mafia Spy

Framer

Point taken.

[quote="BM]

So far, you have failed to make ANY valid scenarios in which i would be scum, asking the RB not to target me. You've proven your own case invalid. Unfortunately you've rolefished to the extent that i have to now fully-claim. I'm not just a Miller. I'm a Miller cum Hider. Each night in order to protect myself, i can leave my house, and go stay with someone else, so if i am targetted by scum, i dont die, but if they target the guy im hiding with, then we both die. If I get Roleblocked, i wont be able to hide, and will probably die...

Happy now? -.-
BM

It's not rolefishing when you say you definately are just a miller and do nothing.

Yes it is!!!

BM

What the hell am I fishing for? You have told me your role, a ton of times... I have nothing left to fish for. You said you were a miller in your first post and later you said that you definitely are nothing more.

All I was asking is why you asked not to be roleblocked and instead advocated the roleblocker to make no action. If someone lies and I try bust them it's not rolefishing.[/quote]

It is rolefishing. The two possible scenarios are me being scum OR me having a power role. If you knew that scum was the only scenario available, you wouldnt need to discuss, you could just vote for me. Because you realise the possibility of me having an additional role, you are hence FISHING for that role.

Btw, if you really are a Roleblocker, i'm actually going to kick you IN THE FACE when this game is over.

Anyway, i'm in a good mood today with this game. Last night i had a really inspired premonition, and i think i have a much better idea of what's going on.

I'm happy for Farside to kill Whome at this stage.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Nemesis, please stop confusing the hell out of me. Please fully, honestly, claim now. Are you a protown Roleblocker?

BM

[Battle Mage]

its a gambit i guess.

[Battle Mage]

no, just to keep him around for as long as possible. I would agree with you had i not seen him do the exact same thing before as scum- claiming cult cop as soon as the game started.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I got a Q - Cos you're a miller, isn't it possible you show up guilty to any Cop investigation - Well not for Naive, but you get what I mean?

yes, that is how the role works.

BM

[Battle Mage]

cool. can we put a halt on votes until we hear from Farside please?

Also

Mod: Where is Khelv? He's crossed off the player list, but we dont have a replacement for him...

[Battle Mage]

ok, the sooner we can get that sorted out, the better.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Nemesis, please stop confusing the hell out of me. Please fully, honestly, claim now. Are you a protown Roleblocker?

BM

I think I've already said I'm not a roleblocker of any kind. I'll say it again just to make sure. I cannot roleblock anyone.

ok thanks.

BM

[Battle Mage]

And I will make this point now. I will not be claiming today regardless of what farside does or does not post.

I will also say again. Farside can kill whosoever he chooses. We should not be guiding him and ending up with multiple claims per day. This can only benefit scum in their NK's

thats fine. I respect your decision not to claim. Regardless, that has no bearing on our discussion of who we want to lynch, and certainly, it is beneficial to have some indication of who Farside intends to kill tonight.

BM

[Battle Mage]

dont ask me to find the line. I'm a Miller-Hider.

Thats really all you need to know.

BM

[Battle Mage]

why did you investigate Armlx?

[Battle Mage]

you are kidding me right? -.-

[Battle Mage]

because, in case you didnt realise, Armlx is preceeded by at least 2 people who were playing on the first night. My vote well and truly stands.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Nemesis-stance on Rosso?

[Battle Mage]

lol gotcha.

Where is Farside??

[Battle Mage]

Prod?

[Battle Mage]

Unvote

Can you impatient kids wait till Farside gets here please?

Kthxbai

BM

[Battle Mage]

that post made me smile. lol

[Battle Mage]

cheers Jordan. Animorph, your predecessor claimed he was a Mafia Goon. Is this true? If so, who did he target last night?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Your accountant? since when did accountants look after the affairs of the deceased??

I call BS. Also, note to self: If Rosso turns up town, TS is obv impatient-scum.

BM

*Also, if we get to 300 pages, there'll be some killer rereads. So stop bitching, and keep posting regular content. cheers.

[Battle Mage]

you should nominate him for funniest player then! Like me and Flay

BM

[Battle Mage]

her*
rofl

[Battle Mage]

i laughed at ts.

arent u dead?

[Battle Mage]

oh yeh. shh dont tell Jordan and we can get him modkilled.

BM

[Battle Mage]

then what point is there fighting.

as usual, BMs played like shit. i inv'd him. i thought that logically a miller wouldnt show up as scum to me, since im going after cult. millers arent cult-bad, theyre made to look mafia-bad, but by the actions of the mod i tend to get the idea now that every investigating role gets false negatives.

Typically in bigger games when i have a PR with the slightest helpfulness, i stay quiet so as not to get deaded. sue me, but dont fucking lynch me for it.

Oh ffs.

I've

played like shit!?

I'VE

PLAYED LIKE SHIT!?

You're the one who doesnt know what a frickin miller does. You've given this game none of your attention. You are clearly a detriment to the town even as a power role. Is it any surprise that you are getting lynched today?

BM

*I like post 1580 by Dahill.

FoS: Imat

[Battle Mage]

dahill stretching? quote plz.
The reason scum would say that is if they were spouting BS, and couldnt think of another reason to back up their lies.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Why is incompetency a scumtell? Anyway:

vote rosso carne seems a little strange how he would forget his n0 investigation, then say it was alphabetical order even though there were two people before armlx

While I think rc's wagon is a bad one, there are better reasons to vote for him than that. So dahill's vote seems like lazy wagoning. I'm just pointing it out now.

what incentive would Dahill have for joining an obv bandwagon if it was on a townie? Other than bussing, i cant really what possible case you are hinting at here...

Equally why are you pointing this out?
And furthermore, why are you defending Rosso? Please fully analyse his play, including the meta argument, and explain why you think he is town.

Cheers,
BM

[Battle Mage]

i want a response from TSPN before we go any further. Be nice to hear from Nemesis too. CKD, your last post does not endear you to me.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Xtoxm, why do you think i am town here?
have you ever heard of 'distancing from a BW'?

[Battle Mage]

Xtoxm, why do you think i am town here?

I think you are acting in a pro-town way.

thats pathetic. I want actual reasons. You aren't a drone. Show some flare.

have you ever heard of 'distancing from a BW'?

Yes. I've been acused of it falsely before.

and because of that you think it isn't a valid scumtell?

BM

[Battle Mage]

TS, it seems to me you think I am scum no matter Rosso's alignment, so, then please explain why your vote isnt on me but on the biggest BW?

This. Granted, i agree totally with what TS is saying. I'd just like to see her put her money where her mouth is.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Money on Rosso being the delayed recruit from N0.

I'll gladly take that bet. Anyone else fancy a flutter?

Oh and CKD- For someone who thinks the RC wagon is dubious, your attitude is nothing short of perplexing to me. 0.o

Armlx- i'd rather see Rosso's affiliation today. I think it tells us too much to consider not doing it, even if we think he might be town.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Because his name starts with an R? Because he has hammah in his sig? Or maybe it could be, as you, me, and everyone else knows, that his claim, and of bm being guilty is why people are voting for him. C'mon.

Yes, because his play makes sense as inattentive town (didn't notice bm claimed miller, or legitimately thought he would come up guilty as cult), but not as inattentive scum (why make that claim with no provocation, no pressure, and no benefit). Or at least, you have to assume truly staggering levels of incompetence as scum. The simplest explanation is that he just wasn't paying much attention.

Are you completely DENSE????
I'm sorry Rosso, i do acknowledge that its kind of unethical to keep bringing this up, but HE HAS DONE THIS EXACT SAME THING BEFORE. I have absolutely no qualm with you defending an immensely scummy player, as long as you give some sort of reasoning. So far, you have not given a single reason to make me think twice about lynching him. So, you have a choice. Either give us the REAL story behind you thinking him town, or admit you were wrong to defend him. -.-

I'm sorry, but your lack of paying attention is really irritating.

BM

[Battle Mage]

sweatpantsninja, answer this before accusing me of anything

I've been arguing against the rc wagon since page 58. Read the thread before you tell me who I can, and cannot, accuse. That goes to everyone who all of the sudden was like, "tell us why you aren't voting for rc."

Wonderful. I love a hero. Especially one who is so transparent. I mean, come on! Why so sure of yourself??

We have confirmed scum? I don't see RC as confirmed scum. What play does the scum have claiming cult on a claimed miller? We're not going to lynch based on that, so why, as scum, is he more likely to do something that doesn't make sense than as town?

To elaborate: The argument as RC being scum rests on him making up his claim. But why would he, as scum, make up that claim?

Try asking him. In fact, i will. Rosso, why would you claim Cult Cop as scum?

Especially claiming BM as guilty?

Erm because it wouldnt be any news. "Guy who claims to come up guilty to cops recieves cop-guilty investigation". Hold the front page boys, we got a shocker here!
In fact, when you put it like that, it makes so much more sense.

Presumably, if he is scum, and he was lying, he would have planned that claim, since he came out of the gates Day 2 with it.

Apparently he was breadcrumbing from Day 1. In which case, he planned to make it at some point from the start.

In which case, one of his buddies might have mentioned "BM is miller, claim guilty on someone else."

that not only assumes Rosso is active at night, but that Rosso considered that seeking the opinion of other, probably newer players, would be a worthwhile endeavour. Both of which seem like long-shots.
Oh, and that his scumbuddies had the insight to realise that claiming an investigation on a claimed miller was a worse gambit than claiming a result that he would not be able to back-up in any way.

So either we have a scumgroup full of people who thought a hypothetical cult cop would get an actual guilty on a claimed cult miller,

Claimed cult miller? wtf?

It really only confirms that bm is town.

Actually no. At first he didnt make it clear that he would get a guilty on a Miller. If it was a gambit for me and Rosso as scumbuddies, you'd think he might have mentioned that little nugget of information with his claim, no? :p

BM

[Battle Mage]

TS, it seems to me you think I am scum no matter Rosso's alignment, so, then please explain why your vote isnt on me but on the biggest BW?

This. Granted, i agree totally with what TS is saying. I'd just like to see her put her money where her mouth is.

BM

if you agree with TS, why isnt your money there too?

Because i've got a lot of other candidates fitting the same, or different criteria for being scum. Furthermore, just because i recognise that you will come up smelling of faeces no matter what Rosso comes up as (but significantly worse imo if he comes up town) it doesnt mean you are necessarily scum.

IGMEOY

is all.

Oh and CKD- For someone who thinks the RC wagon is dubious, your attitude is nothing short of perplexing to me. 0.o

up until a page or two ago I wasnt really questionning the motivation of this wagon, as you say he has done this before....he is avoiding questions, and either lied about his claim or is just not paying any attention.

..but it doesnt make any sense if he is scum, why would he do it at this point in the game??..if/when we catch hiim in a lie then he would hang the following day, right? why would scum want to swap one for one?

Its about survival. Some claims can allow a mafioso to live for far longer than he would normally. Yeh he wont make it to endgame, but he'll last alot longer because of that claim, and in the meantime, can take part in mislynches and help the long-term efforts of his teammates. I've done it before. Albeit not as suicidally as Rosso seems to prefer.

..unless he is scum with you that is. I think you are indeed the Miller and I think that Rosso is useless...I think that he would be great for a vig testing.

Thats odd. I think you're the second person to make that assuation. Why would i be more likely scum if Rosso is? I dont quite follow the evidently pristine logic here...
And what do you mean by 'vig-testing'?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Well, shit, bm, I'm sorry I haven't convinced you personally. There are 25 players in this game, you hardly need my vote, and I'm not convinced by anything

you've

said.

Tell me

why

rosso, as scum, would make that claim, and I'll listen.

Dont get lippy with me, kid. You know exactly what i'm saying. If i cant see anything convincing in your arguments, why are you claiming to see something? I'm seeing inconsistency written all over this. Your reasoning has been decimated. You have no further comment?

Again, if you want to hear why Rosso does what Rosso does, you can ask him. I'm not his mom (thank god).
I've pointed out to you that he's got form, and you dont seem atall phased... 0.o

BM

[Battle Mage]

Actually no. At first he didnt make it clear that he would get a guilty on a Miller. If it was a gambit for me and Rosso as scumbuddies, you'd think he might have mentioned that little nugget of information with his claim, no? :p

Hey, you're right. Which is why the only scenario I could come up with that has rc as mafia doesn't make sense, because neither of you are playing it like he should if you're both scum.

As for claimed cult miller, that wasn't very clear. I meant, for rosso's claim to be accurate, you would be both cult and miller, because if the recruitment was delayed, you still would have been a miller.

his investigation took place on N1 apparently...

BM

[Battle Mage]

BM, surely if you can see Rosso as scum with this gambit...you can also see why a Rosso/BM scum pair gambit would be brillant (maybe why I doubt it).

ouch, was that last comment a jibe!?

ftr, if Rosso was my scumbuddy, i'd have requested replacement a LONG time ago... 0.o

[Battle Mage]

You want me to not get lippy with you. Really.

I'm sorry, you're going to have to tell me where my reasonings gone wrong. All I see your argument shaking down to is that he lied before. How about he was lying in that game and was inspired by the role he received in this one?

we did discuss this earlier, and its a pretty reasonable thing. In fact its the only thing giving the doubts about what seems like an open-shut case.
Sadly you havent mentioned this till now, which suggests that your original defence was based on emptyness.

Is it the fact that it was a cult cop, which is an unusual role, I'll admit, but not at all inconceivable in a game where there's a cult. If I had fakeclaimed cop in the past, would you say the next time I claimed cop that I must be lying?

No. I'd say that you have a tendency of fakeclaiming cop as scum, and it isnt atall unheard of that you could be doing it again. Thats also the worst analogy ever to prove your point. rofl

I'm sure asking rc why he claimed cult cop as scum is going to be highly effective.

hell, its worth a shot.

Right, so his investigation of you took place N1. Assuming that the delayed cult recruitment didn't take effect until N1 (and what else could delayed mean, unless we don't have a cult at all), you wouldn't have been cult until then, after you already claimed miller.

Ok, i admit you've lost me. Cult can claim miller ya know!

BM

[Battle Mage]

OK. We have a delayed cult recruiter.

That could mean one of two things: Either they didn't get to recruit N0, in which case we don't have a cult (yay!), or that the recruitment is delayed until N1.

So N0 the cultist (too lazy to go to page 1) recruits you. You wouldn't know about it yet. But you claim miller day 1, prior to you knowing you were recruited if you were recruited.

And if you were scum, it wouldn't have gone through anyway.

Conclusion: If you are now cult, you must be both cult and miller.

And the odds of you being rosso's investigation and happening to be the delayed recruit are pretty damn tiny.

ah now i get you.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Or that he honestly thought miller would be guilty as cult. Which is what he said. Or if he was actually paying attention, he would realize that his claim almost definitely confirms BM as town. But again, I ask you: if he's scum, why claim that? BM's response is a "shrug, who cares," who can do better?

I was satisfied with you. Until i read this BS.
Ive clearly outlined why he would claim a guilty on me as scum. If you want to know more, get it from the horses mouth. That is unless you are scared to get to the truth.

I'm leaning more toward a "CKD might be scum independent of BM/RC being scum."

Right, what makes you think CKD is scum?

BM

[Battle Mage]

I really, really don't get how "Rosso has done the exact same thing in the past" isn't convincing. Same goes for claiming to have investigated in alphabetical order, yet investigating armlx first. And the whole BM is a claimed miller, so he should show up guilty to investigations. It's not that I don't have doubts about Rosso being scum. It's that lynching Rosso

scum

town helps us more than letting Rosso town live. Of course, if you find any obvscum, I may switch my vote.

Fixed for you.

BM

[Battle Mage]

You got a claim out of me...And somehting out of Lloyd...I think that dragging a day out after a lynch is decided is more helpful to scum, personally.

Xtomx is correct.

Maybe Xtomx is. But i really dont give a crap. Xtoxm, the guy playing this game, is most certainly not correct. The more we get out of a day, the better for town. The longer each day is, and the more time scum has to try and fit in, the more difficult they will find it. I know this from experience-the longer the game goes on, the more impatient scum will get. And we'll catch them.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Hmm...Just thought of an interesting question.

I had assumed delayed CR means that they can't recruit on N0, or maybe for a few nights to start...

Is it possible/more likely to mean the recruit goes the the night after it's submitted?

N
O

I
D
E
A

[Battle Mage]

I, personally, am undecided on his claim. I'm leaning more towards Town for him, kind of because of the obvious question, "Why would Scum act so stupidly with the Claim?"

Gee. Didnt TSPN say the exact same thing a page ago?

But his response to his wagon I felt was good.

really?? please show me.

If Rosso comes up town, we have plenty of distancers to look at tomorrow.

Vote: Rosso

I'm done.

BM

[Battle Mage]

when i die, please vig BM tonight and lynch XTom tomorrow. That is the word.

even though if you are town, i am confirmed town?

You really are stupid aren't you... >.>

BM

[Battle Mage]

Well crap, the new jobs been draining me. Here I am.

when i die, please vig BM tonight and lynch XTom tomorrow. That is the word.

even though if you are town, i am confirmed town?

You really are stupid aren't you... >.>

BM

No, you're not.

It would add weight to his miller claim, though there would still be a chance that he wqas recruited into cult night 0

yeh. So I'm either exactly who i say i am, or i'm a cult recruit, which we dont even know exists. Id say thats pretty damn near confirmed. And it would make me at worst a Survivor type role, which doesnt need to be killed any time soon anyway.

BM

[Battle Mage]

#3: Alphabetically challenged.

rofl

Animorpherv1 welcome to the game, please give an opinion or say something other than "Vote RC".

i think the opinion he's given is 'Rosso is scum'. Question is, why?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Farside, its time to hammer.

BM

[Battle Mage]

i disagree on a few counts. I think CKD is a far better Vig choice if RC comes up town than scum! Although tbh, i dont really want to see him die at this stage. Especially considering his recent series of painful deaths

Whome is an ok Vig-choice. I reread Dahill today, and aside from 1 scummy post, he is on my rather short 'probably town' list. Animorph is a decent Vig choice too, but i dont see the case against Matt S.

TSPN, who would be your alternative lynch today? Whats your view of Xtoxm?

BM

[Battle Mage]

i think you're overdoing that a bit TSPN....

[Battle Mage]

Many of them are nonresponsive, I've already stated my reasons for opposing the Rosso lynch.

Certainly they aren't good

, glad dahill picked up on that, but they are what they are. I just don't think Rosso is as worthy of a lynch as you all seem to think. Also, I'm not fine ending the day yet. I think we have all this time to do what we want, look into who we want, that we shouldn't waste it by ending the day early. Yeah, night things will give us information, but so does discussion, and we'd be stupid not to take all the information we can get.

wtf?
did i miss something here??

[Battle Mage]

Why is everyone so obsessed with directing the vig? The vig can be trusted to know what he's doing. They've obviously been reading the thread so far.

QFT

because it benefits us to know who she intends to take a pop at.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Why is everyone so obsessed with directing the vig? The vig can be trusted to know what he's doing. They've obviously been reading the thread so far.

QFT

because it benefits us to know who she intends to take a pop at.

BM

Here's a hypothetical, vig says I'm going to target X

X says don't do it, im the cop/doc/roleblocker etc

How precisely has this benefited town?

Town doesnt lose a power role. Duh.
Next question?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Town doesnt lose a power role. Duh.
Next question?

BM

cos it's just that simple.

1. if they're telling truth mafia now know who to target

2. if they're lying, real PR may counterclaim and is then a mafia target

Why can't you see the part of this plan that gifts info to the mafia?

because im focussing on the part which means we, as a town, use our resources to our best advantage. Id much rather we used our Vig-shot on scum than town. heck the mafia might kill a power role, but for gods sake, lets not do the work for them! 0.o

[Battle Mage]

i need to know who Farside is going to Vig, because i dont particularly want to go and hide with the vig-target tonight. Thats a terrible way to die. -.-

[Battle Mage]

farside wasnt necessarily the one getting Doc Protection.

If Doc protection was the reason behind the No-kill atall...

[Battle Mage]

Where's the hammer?

Andy, why do you think there was no NK last night?

BM

[Battle Mage]

oh i look 'scumming' do i? lol
is that good or bad?

Ive already explained why hiding behind Farside is a shit idea-she's one of the most likely people to get NKed!

Question Xtoxm: Why do you want me dead?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Bm is starting to look scumming. If he is a hider I see no reason why he needs to know who Farside wants to vig and why he can't jsut hide behind her.

even more basic, as a claimed hider, he could just

not hide

and thus be a less likely target than anyone he chose to hide behind. BM is going up my scum charts at the moment.

if i dont hide, i could just be NKed normally. -.-

Whome, please answer the same question i posed to Andycyca.

Also, you guys seem to have forgotten, if Rosso is town, i'm pretty much confirmed town. lol

BM

[Battle Mage]

Whome, please answer the same question i posed to Andycyca.

BM

Easy answer, there was a NK last night, Lloyd was shotgunned, but I assume you mean why was there no scum NK last night so

1. Scum chose not to target anyone to mess with our heads - I don't see this as being likely, doesn't offer much advantage to scum so lets say 5%

2. Scum targeted someone who was doc protected - say 30% requires doctor and scum to target same person

3. scum trigger man was roleblocked say 60% only requires roleblocker to correctly get
4. scum tried to kill you but you were hiding - i see this as unlikely as it assumes a) you're telling the truth, and b) the scum would come after you, which I also see as unlikely as you were firmly on the town radar. lets say 5%

The %'s are pretty much pulled out my ass, but the scenarios are the only ones that I can come up with

lol u think a RB is more likely than a doc protect with 2 claimed power roles? You are kidding me right!? 0.o

BM

[Battle Mage]

Yeh because miller hider is such a devastingly useful town role, the scum will come after you the second you say you aren't hiding on a night.

No you're not confirmed innocent if Rosso is town.

i admit i rofl'd

I am confirmed non-mafia. thats a pretty sound start.

Xtoxm- Whome has taken a stab at the question. I wonder if you can think of any scenario he has missed?

[Battle Mage]

BM you ain't confirmed so stop saying it.

He is right in saying that if Roso comes up Cult Cop, then BM can't be Mafia, but he could be cult or miller. which <> confirmed town by a long chalk.

hardly. we may not even have a cult. if we do, there is only 1. the odds of it being me are hardly great.

I'm still waiting for the 'correct' answer as to why there might not have been an NK last night.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Poison death is quite interesting if it is what I think it is.

Anyways, back to where we were.

Vote Whome

Hmm

FoS: Armlx

What DO you think it is?

Also, whats with the Whome-vote?

I'll reveal my thoughts on the new kill method after Armlx has explained himself. Otherwise, the scum kill method is interesting. Not only did they apparently take note of my suggestion that Nemesis was the RB, but they also decided to intentionally allow Farside to live. Now whether that was through fear of a Doc remains to be seen, but as far as i can tell, it seems unlikely that the mafia would know there even is one. My guess is, as long as none of their members is in danger, they are allowing the Vig to live. To this end, i suggest we no longer discuss potential vig choices at the end of the day (i know this is different to what i said before, but we live and learn). Now as the vig choice last night was pretty much out of Whome? and Xtoxm, the fact that they didnt take a pop at Farside speaks volumes about Whome?.
This coupled with his behaviour at the end of yesterday make me think he is probably town, and a VERY bad play for today-hence my dislike of Armlx's opening vote.

Finally, with 3 of my high suspects dead, its time for a closer look at some other players, once we've all checked in.

BM

[Battle Mage]

What exactly are you thinking of?

Well, the only group I have ever seen poison in a normal game is cult, and it would imply that after the death of the leader the lone recruit gained killing powers. I'm assuming the delayed effects of the recruit meant they just became one yesterday, so that would explain the lack of poison kill all other nights too.

yeh that would seem like a reasonable conclusion. Can we have some links to those games where poison is the mark of a cult?

Cheers,
BM

[Battle Mage]

Too lazy to find games now, but have you heard of the stereotype of the poisoned punch bowl?

No. I'd still like you to find me games. Hell, even 1 game would do for now.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Quite frankly, I'm going back and having trouble finding a single game with a cult, let alone one with a cult kill. I know it has been discussed before several times.

You tried Cultafia?

The only completed game i can think of is my own Doctor Who Mafia. The cult victims were 'deleted' according to the flavour.

Keep searching please.

BM

[Battle Mage]

This game has random mafia kill methods, including poison. So poison killing isn't necessarily a cult thing. However, given that we still have three kills after lynching the serial killer, something's definitely up. The cult recruit having a kill would explain pretty much everything.

On another note, I was debating with myself whether to go back to Peers, or follow through with my suspicions on killa seven or TheSweatpantsNinja. Given that killa seven does seem to be naturally scummy, I'll leave him alone for now. And since I fear a chain of OMGUS if I vote TheSweatpantsNinja now, I'll

Vote Peers

. He slipped away when Rosso's lynching came up. For your convenience, my initial points against him:

I'm looking at Peers for tomorrow. His last two posts are perfect to explain my suspicions.

Vote: killa

Yeah, I'll join the wagon. Let's see if we can get a worth-while claim out of this.

He was questioned a lot on what would be a worthwhile claim, yet he never answered. And it sounds like he's only wagoning in order to get a claim.

We still have a week to talk people, no need to lynch right now.

Translation: "Hey, maybe if you guys ignore my scumbuddy you'll convince people to lynch a hapless town role instead", right?

Translation: "I can't let this guy hunt more scum or I'll be dead tomorrow!"

Yeah, I've convinced myself.

Vote Peers

Chain of OMGUS? I dont understand.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Chain of OMGUS? I dont understand.

I vote TheSweatpantsNinja, he votes me. Killa seven also votes me to be consistent with his stance yesterday. Then I vote killa seven. People start getting mad at me, I vote them, etc.

you sound guilty, i never voted you or fo'd you, i only called you out on one thing. you look very scummy at the moment. i dont remember you voting for me yesterday, dont confuse killa sven 1 with killa seven 2 thank you.

Actually i dont see why he cant compare K7 1's suspicions with K7 2's...
I mean, if you are the same person, theres no reason why you wouldnt hold similar views if you were the same affiliation.

Mind you, fear of confrontation is kinda scummy Matt...

BM

[Battle Mage]

upon rereading khelvaster (animorph), he was always wishy washy about BM. one post he would be defending BM, the next attacking him.

yes, that kind of what you'd expect from scum in response to a claim of Miller. Not sure whether to attack and make sure of a mislynch or distance from that pressure completely to preserve themselves. Its hardly a surprising attitude.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Dear dahill1,

Please 'splain Rosso's guilty on him first.

oops

unvote

that does make a huge hole in my argument

You just removed from my list of probable protown players (featuring 4 names). lol

[Battle Mage]

upon rereading khelvaster (animorph), he was always wishy washy about BM. one post he would be defending BM, the next attacking him.

Indeed, and I am EXTREMELY leery of the Miller/Hider claim, that's the kind of claim that's just tooooo scummalicious.

The Miller/Hider claim explains two of the problems that scum might encounter in a game. The first problem is that they may be investigated and found guilty. Conveniently, BM declared himself a miller. The second problem is that the scum must explain his continued survival night after night. This is especially important if we have living vig, and the miller doesn't get nigthkilled and continues to live. So "hider" and "miller" makes a perfect combo for a scum claim.

Also, I see BM is very active and scheming. That's his scum persona, not his town persona.

The Miller/Hider claim is the real clincher. I don't believe it. I believe that BM is just plain scum.

vote: Battle Mage

This is funny. Because earlier you were very happy to believe that i had a super power role. When i make a far less extravagant claim, you consider it less likely to be true. rofl.

Sadly, your poor interpretation of what should be an EXCELLENT meta on me, is a tad disappointing. As is your conclusion, given the fact that i cannot possibly be mafia, and a case for me being cult is slim due to my miller claim on Day 1, at which point i would probably not have been cult.

BM

[Battle Mage]

On the poisoning: I was in a game where the Mafia had a poisoner, but it was delayed. So, saying that the cult recruit was a poisoner, they may have been recruited night 0, notified of recruitment and poisoned someone night 1, and their first victim died and they poisoned another last night.

Also, BM is looking very scummy today.

FoS: BM

tonight's the night the vig should get 'em, if we don't lynch him first.

Vote: Skitzer

This is the kind of 'vig-misleading' i was talking about. What about me looks scummy today ooi?

BM

[Battle Mage]

For clarity's sake.

Normally, one would expect a cult cop to get a "guilty" on cults, and "not guilty" on non-cults.

However, Rosso seems to have gotten a "guilty" on a miller -

but I too would expect that a miller would be innocent to a cult cop.

However, BM was guilty to Rosso. This must mean that BM was culted. A culted miller/hider? That cannot be suffered to live.

*sigh* A miller comes up guilty to Cops. That is like, its definition. Its the definition i use, its the definition Jordan uses. Seeing as the real cop is dead, the cult cop is the only one who could test my millerness.
Your stupidity really exasperates me...

BM

[Battle Mage]

need to reread the end of the day yesterday..I thought Ani's contentless post/vote on RC looked suspicious...

BM, did you ever indicate that you felt Ani was scummy yesterday?....anyway, going to read...more later.

Not that i recall. His vote was kinda suspicious, but he was far from top of my suspect list. Why?

Also,

Unvote, Vote: CKD

for the first comment.

I've given up defending myself at this point. Its like having a cop innocent, and some dumbass popping up and saying, "Ooh the Cop could be insane", and so its actually a confirmed guilty, so lets lynch him.

Its too pathetic to even warrant response.

BM

[Battle Mage]

This is funny. Because earlier you were very happy to believe that i had a super power role. When i make a far less extravagant claim, you consider it less likely to be true. rofl.

Correct.

I figured that a miller might be offset by having some pretty useful, maybe be even provable powers.

But a hider power means that you turn up guilty, and that you aren't being nightkilled. Fits a scum profile to a tee.

Erm in case you are too blinded by your own ego to see, as a Hider, I AM confirmable. I'm happy for Farside to take a pop at me if necessary to confirm me, as long as you're clear on it so i dont forget to hide. It just means we waste a Vig shot.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I'm also having trouble with the

BM

as scum bit. All because of his voluntary Miller claim on D1.

We know he cannot be mafia scum, because there is no way Rosso could have gotten a guilty on him if he was.

If he is cult and knew he was on D1, why would he have claimed at all? We all knew the recruiter was dead, so a lone cult member in a sea of people wouldn't be too worried about being found.

Not to mention the fact that, having claimed miller (inexplicably after the cop death) i was clearly going to be under a heap of pressure-not something a virtual Survivor wants...

So I believe he was definitely a miller at the time he claimed, the hair in the soup tho, is was he the delayed recruit? As was pointed out upstream, this is unlikely (though it cannot be entirely ignored)

I cannot get behind a

BM

lynch today. I will look around for a better target and get back later.

a recruitable miller to me seems kind of broken...

BM

[Battle Mage]

lol, BM, are you in a OMGUS frenzy??

No...
I voted for you (who didnt vote or express suspicion of me) and Skitzer who only FoSd me. Hardly a frenzy.

Now I still need to reread to see how (and when) events went down. If I recall, when I removed my vote and asked Ani to provide more content for his vote on the BW, you attacked me (or agreed with dont recall)

Yeh, its not like theres a big difference here atall. rofl
Maybe you should try getting the facts straight before you put too much into this....

I also find it strange that you stated.

Finally, with 3 of my high suspects dead, its time for a closer look at some other players, once we've all checked in.

BM

when you never mentioned being suspicious of Ani

I wasnt majorly suspicious of him, but his behaviour yesterday with the unexplained vote was bound to invoke pressure today. Hence he was someone i was keeping an eye.

..matter of fact (if I recall) you began attacking me once I started asking Ani for more content... this comment has the feel of someone who wants everyone to think you were always suspicious of Ani, when in fact you never stated that and acted quite differently once someone who was suspicious started asking questions.

rofl. The odd thing is, i got the exact same impression with your comment earlier-hence the vote. OMGUS much?

but like I said, I need to reread how it all went down...
or maybe your vote is on me, because you know what I will find when I do.

Yeh thats right bro. I'm absolutely terrified that you're gonna go back and irrefutable evidence that the confirmed non-mafia is mafia-affiliated.



BM

[Battle Mage]

too townie much?

[Battle Mage]

***POSTJACK***

RC operates on a different level of logic then we do. The only thing we could really analyze was his claim, which was pretty out of place.

Yeah, HIGHER level of logic

*goes back to being dead*

HAPPY SCUMDAY!

Now srsly. gtfo.

[Battle Mage]

Matts case is actually quite compelling. Not that i feel TSPN is the play atm by any means, but its hard to deny the points Matt has made do go further than the mere 'too townie' fallacy.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Matts case is actually quite compelling. Not that i feel TSPN is the play atm by any means, but its hard to deny the points Matt has made do go further than the mere 'too townie' fallacy.

Are you kidding me? He hasn't even

made

a case. He's still telling us why RC was scum! What I see are people still so convinced they were right yesterday, that they suspect me for having a better read on rc than they did.

That quote was by me, not Matt himself.
Furthermore, your point might be right. On the other hand, it could just be that you DIDN'T have that read on RC, and just knew he was town.

BM

[Battle Mage]

You know what, rather than deal with figuring out arguments and what not, lets just go after the person who has done nothing but try to rush the game and make sniping comment?

Unvote, Vote Peers

You know what, lets not. Attacking Peers isnt going to achieve anything. Pressure on CKD is what we need. And maybe that filthy scumbag VanDamien.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Pressure on CKD is what we need. And maybe that filthy scumbag VanDamien.

There must always be pressure on CKD. He cracks easily.

What with Van Damien though?

whats worse than a guy who votes without reasons?

a guy who votes with reasons that are clearly bullshit that he just flung together.

Thats VanDamien. Other than this hobby of his, he lurks like its his job...

BM

[Battle Mage]

Are you voting for Van Damien?

no. i'm voting CKD i think. why?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Maybe I take your rhetoric too seriously.

You said you wanted to pressure CKD, but called VD a filthy scumbag. I thought that meant you thought VD was scummier than CKD, so I wondered why you weren't voting him.

ah i see. yeh i think i recall you doing something like this before. And regardless of the lack of absolute meaning given in my wording, im surprised at the confusion. I mean, if i want to pressure CKD, i want to pressure CKD. I dont do that if i vote VanDamien now, do i?

BM

[Battle Mage]

I cant deny im enjoying watching the newbie outwit the pro.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Who is the newbie and who is the pro?

Newbie= Matt S
Pro= TSPN

I always kinda think of TSPN as more experienced than he actually is. He is wise beyond his years, that one.

[Battle Mage]

1660, BM

If Rosso comes up town, we have plenty of distancers to look at tomorrow.

Vote: Rosso

This is an attempt to set up lynch targets today….Today he starts off with (1748)

Finally, with 3 of my high suspects dead, its time for a closer look at some other players, once we've all checked in.

even though he never stated he was suspicious of Ani yesterday.

As Cult, what would i have to gain by claiming to suspect the Mafia GF? Its not like i need to distance from the lynch in any case. Besides, on the assumption that the Poison kill is a cult kill, i'd have been the one who killed Ani!

1774, I ask him about this.

I must have spooked him because he immediately voted me once he read my comment, 1784.

BM's panic and frenzy OMGUS voting is troubling.

Dont flatter yourself. I believe ive already stated that my voting may seem erratic in this game, because im rereading regularly, and seeing where my past suspicions lie is easier when ive got bolded votes quoting the scummiest posts.

Why doesn't BM just hide tonight and Farside gun him down? If he was recruited I doubt he can still hide, so he will die. If he doesn't die, he's not cult.

I approve of this action...if he dies he is cult of some sort....if he hides and lives, then he is confirmed in my mind. A BM lynch does not make sense today.

I dont think this plan is going to happen today at least. Its pretty wasteful, so its better to leave it until closer to endgame, as its possible ill have been NKed by then anyway.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Is a good idea. Not sure using a vig on someone we definitely know is not in one group just to test the possibility that he's in the other is a good idea.

I think it's a good idea, as a confirmed townie BM will be invaluable. We will know not to lynch him, and his hiding ability will make it more difficult for scum groups with a NK to kill him. If on the other hand he is actually cult, then the vig kill will go through and we're downa scum. I don't see much of a downside here. If Farside had a solid lock on an actual scum, then I would say, sure, kill them first, but rather than risking offing another townie, confirming BM is a good choice.

In fairness, the odds of me being scum are so ridiculously minute, its pretty hard not to be suspicious of those pushing the 'lets spend all our time discussing the pretty much confirmed guy, and potentially waste a vig shot on him', when as you say, we may not have our Vig forever.

I mean, lets use the worst case scenario and say i was cult. I'm not a threat until we get to Endgame, or the day before that anyway. I'd be a survivor who may or MAY NOT have a kill.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I mean, lets use the worst case scenario and say i was cult. I'm not a threat until we get to Endgame, or the day before that anyway. I'd be a survivor who may or MAY NOT have a kill.

BM

how do you know the cult does not have a kill? Your theory on the posion?

*sigh*
what IS up with you lately? You pounce on every shadow and seem to always come to the wrong conclusion. I dont KNOW the cult does not have a kill. I just dont see a strong case to say that they do. Armlx has failed to provide an example that would reinforce it, so im not accepting anything yet.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I'm not.

Lol, who did I direct the vig at? Rosso, the guy whose actions made no sense, was claiming something he did in another game as scum in the recent past, and trying to get someone lynched on broken logic, and then went back on investigation results?

I am talking about BM. And I'm talking about mafia members potentially directing the vig to someone we

know isn't mafia

. That's sort of a good deal for mafia, isn't it? A crosskill at best, a not-mafia kill at worst?

Whoever said, "he could be the cult," yes, he could be. I could be. You could be. We really don't have any reason to suspect BM over anyone else. So using a vig or lynch on someone we know is not in the most dangerous scum group is foolish.

this is actually EXCELLENT logic. It raises a point even i had forgotten-that by vigging ANYONE we can confirm their affiliation.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I dont think this plan is going to happen today at least. Its pretty wasteful, so its better to leave it until closer to endgame, as its possible ill have been NKed by then anyway.

BM

umm, I thought you said you were for it? why do I get the feeling you are trying to back out of this? If you are cult it will not be wasteful..if you are indeed the miller, it will not be wasteful..many people here suspect you

Thats an interesting interpretation. Anyone who suspects me now, is quite frankly, an idiot. Do YOU think i am scum? If so, lets hear some reasoning. If not, why are you fuelling this attempt at pressure?

but now that it is obvious you are not mafia it would a.) provide a ton of information and b.) give us a confirmed townie.

B is fine. But i dont understand A atall. What information will it give, other than me being innocent?? And dont give me some bullshit about it allowing us to use peoples reactions to me, because you know damn well we can do that now.

Also, I think there's a good chance armlx is scum. So far today, he's directed the vig to try and kill someone who we know isn't mafia (whome picks up more scum points for that too),

might as well add me to that list too, because I think it is a good idea...

Oh, how chivalrous.

Confirm Vote: CKD

Slippery as ever.

BM

[Battle Mage]

We're worried about a cultist, BM was guilty to the cult cop, we have a probable poisoner-cult, and we're not lynching BM.

You....tit! What part of 'MILLER' do you not understand?
christ, you're beyond help.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Farside, how dare you kill me!!

Well, you can't get rid of me that easily.

I told you I wanted a player analysis and comments and I never got it. I felt suspicious because of the person you replaced. Who knew you were telling the truth.

I thought with how I played yesterday you'd have thought I was town...And you never asked for the analysis again and I really didn't wanna read through all the pages so I thought I could get away without it and you weren't bothered anymore.

erm dude, 1 post with game relevant comments i expect might be allowed to pass. But, you're dead and you are still discussing the game in a manner from which conclusions could be drawn. I politely suggest you refrain from posting here again.

Cheers,
BM

[Battle Mage]

What is your position on vigging BM?

It's a waste of a kill.

I disagree here. I think it could easily confirm BM's role. Also, the way the Vigs have been going lately tells us we need to change something. I'd say that this is actually the most logical use of the Vig tonight, or at least the safest.

erm a vig confirms anyone's role. The only difference is, my role will be confirmed without me dying, but when the worst case scenario atm is, as TS said, i'm a survivor who may or may not have a kill, which may or may not occur every night. Theres a whole lot of guesswork here, and anyone with an ounce of mathematical reasoning will have worked out that the information value of killing me is significantly inferior to the information gained by Player X, who's affiliation we have no rolebased indication of.

BM

[Battle Mage]

We're worried about a cultist, BM was guilty to the cult cop, we have a probable poisoner-cult, and we're not lynching BM.

In no way is BM the lynch for today. I would liek to see him vig targeted tonight, which would confirm him as a miller/hider if he survived, and would guarantee no blue on blue vig kill, a BM lynch would be nonsensical though.

Alright, this discussion is boring me now. Farside, i want your word either way. Are you going to Vig me tonight or not? If you are, thats fine, i wont dispute it, and i will be sure to hide. If you aren't, everyone who says you should can stfu, and i may or may not hide tonight.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Farside, how dare you kill me!!

Well, you can't get rid of me that easily.

I told you I wanted a player analysis and comments and I never got it. I felt suspicious because of the person you replaced. Who knew you were telling the truth.

I thought with how I played yesterday you'd have thought I was town...And you never asked for the analysis again and I really didn't wanna read through all the pages so I thought I could get away without it and you weren't bothered anymore.

erm dude, 1 post with game relevant comments i expect might be allowed to pass. But, you're dead and you are still discussing the game in a manner from which conclusions could be drawn. I politely suggest you refrain from posting here again.

Cheers,
BM

Skimmer!

I think what Whome said makes sense.

lol, not skimming. I missed a page.

Also have i missed Tar's arrival?

BM

[Battle Mage]

BM, I don't remember you clarifying this, but if you hide with scum do you die or no?

no, not as far as i am aware.

BM

[Battle Mage]

In the sense that i dont recall it being in my role pm.

[Battle Mage]

K-Scope, why do you think TSPN is Scum? I may have missed some big post of reasoning on your part, but I doubt it.

Instead I find it likely that you're content to lay low and follow the lead of other. Honestly, I can't see much Pro-Town about your last two posts, and I'm starting to think that assessment will hold true if I reread you. Can you, therefore, post YOUR suspicions of TSPN that lead you to ignore the trend of the past few days (Finding Scum then delaying the Hammer to try and find others) and try to rush yet another lynch (Noting that I'm not saying hes the one who pushed each lynch, necessarily)? Then, just to give us an idea of where you're standing, can you perhaps give a name for an alternate suspect or two of yours...Unless you only suspect TSPN of being Scum, that is.

KSc0pe doesnt DO reasoning. He does gut instinct and thats about it. Oh, and snidey comments.

Makes him a good policy vig. Of course, not as good a policy vig as TS, who provides reasoning, just reasoning that is exceptionally anti-town and pretty dense. Christ, im sounding like Quagmire... 0.o

BM

[Battle Mage]

I dont think this plan is going to happen today at least. Its pretty wasteful, so its better to leave it until closer to endgame, as its possible ill have been NKed by then anyway.

BM

umm, I thought you said you were for it? why do I get the feeling you are trying to back out of this? If you are cult it will not be wasteful..if you are indeed the miller, it will not be wasteful..many people here suspect you

Thats an interesting interpretation. Anyone who suspects me now, is quite frankly, an idiot. Do YOU think i am scum? If so, lets hear some reasoning. If not, why are you fuelling this attempt at pressure?

interesting interpretation?

Yes. Seems more hopeful than anything.

I AM confirmable. I'm happy for Farside to take a pop at me if necessary to confirm me, as long as you're clear on it so i dont forget to hide. It just means we waste a Vig shot.

BM

now that other's think you should do it...attitude changes, why?

who really is slippery?

To be quite honest, it doesnt matter how many nincompoops show up and attempt to bully Farside into vigging me, its only 1 opinion that really matters, and that is her own. Im sure she is capable of reading all comments on this and reaching her own conclusion. Assuming she is willing to give me the benefit of the doubt for 1 night, i think i may have an alternative solution anyway.

BM

[Battle Mage]

In the sense that i dont recall it being in my role pm.

I don't like this response...You can check/ask for confirmation.

i dont care whether you like it or not. Its the truth. Im pretty sure if it had been in my role pm, id have remembered, as it is a pretty significant change to the logistics of my role. But, im not 100% sure. If it makes you feel better, ill try and remember to check tonight.

BM