NY 213 - Game Over!

[TehBrawlGuy]

uh, yes? you know besides you that I've been the other big recipient of "YOUR READS ARE WRONG AND BAD" from the mislynch hivemind (still funny). the parallels between us is a big part of why I prefer tex lynch over yours

that said, you being ignored would give you literally the perfect opportunity to bus b/c you know it's not going to catch

iso me. i started pushing for texcat lynch day 2 it was i think anyways it was somehow early i was quoting stuff and asking people to vote with me, i even made a little case
if you think i was bussing for cred back then then i guess this is going nowhere

everything before D3 is pretty fuzzy for me due to replacing in

someone who's been here from the start, when did sajj start getting ignored? d2? d3? was that before or after her tex push

[TehBrawlGuy]

this page is comedy gold

(for the record though, Ank is entirely correct)

[TehBrawlGuy]

NO I GOT NEWPAGED FUCK

[TehBrawlGuy]

VOTE: Skygazer

Creature, come texcat

Today, we can lynch scum.

TOGETHER

I'm waiting the VC, but I'm tempted to just vote and wouldn't mind if it ended the day.

tex is lower than l-2 rn iirc

it's a safe vote

[TehBrawlGuy]

Golden Robster - eh, i would probably need more time to write about this slot. it's like null with scumlean.
Krazy - he gives me all kinds of bad vibes but i wouldn't lynch anytime soon, a lot would be solved for me based on tex flip. gives me vibes of really impudent scum. was thinking that he might have been distancing from GR but eh, wouldn't put much stock into it.
Creature - town, i talked about you already.
Kublai Khan - where is he????
Gamma Emerald - probably town after all. he does do thinking that he really doesn't have to do.
Tchill13 - i think i get why he operates by now, porb town. he wouldn't be pushing mislycnhes as he did if scum
Skygazer - maybe scum but i'd bet on disinterested town.
JarJarDrinks - porb scum
Ankamius - i'd lie if i said i have any idea how to read this slot
Texcat - scum
TehBrawlGuy - i guess i would say he is more likely to be town.
Vaxkiller - i guess town becuase of how wheme has confused him with srceenplay slot.
Wavemode - don't much to say so it's meta based. prob scum. also he had that random flip from townwheme to scumwheme.
Myloninja13 - more likely scum on tex green flip

ok, sajj is town and these reads are generally accurate

please lynch tex today

[TehBrawlGuy]

@GR: Going to L-2 doesn't make you a main wagon???

what world are you from

[TehBrawlGuy]

and by you I mean "one"

i always fuck that up in informal writing

[TehBrawlGuy]

Jesus Christ

Alright fuck you guys I'll try again tonorrowv

Stay here, you're entertaining me.

[TehBrawlGuy]

@GR: Going to L-2 doesn't make you a main wagon???

what world are you from

yeah of course you would say this

a flashwagon that happened on one page does not overtake a wagon that's been building up for most of the day

is that not hard to understand?

overtake =/= is a main wagon

pepsi doesn't overtake coke, but it's a main cola

xbone didn't overtake ps4 or switch but it's a main console

[TehBrawlGuy]

Otherwise we can collectively surrender, give scum the win and make a pretty hot discussion topic on Mafia Discussion about how plurality mechanism should be default on large normals.

we really should do this postgame tbh

[TehBrawlGuy]

TehBrawlGuy, how do you play as scum?

I don't want to give too much away in a public setting, but clearly the weakest parts of my game are being persuasive and realizing when doing the "right thing" backfires because it can be seen as scummy. The first is less of an issue as Scum, the second is a total non-issue because I just don't do potentially scummy looking correct. So, generally, better.

[TehBrawlGuy]

TehBrawlGuy, how do you play as scum?

I don't want to give too much away in a public setting, but clearly the weakest parts of my game are being persuasive and realizing when doing the "right thing" backfires because it can be seen as scummy. The first is less of an issue as Scum, the second is a total non-issue because I just don't do potentially scummy looking correct. So, generally, better.

*potentially scummy looking correct plays

[TehBrawlGuy]

scioness continually mentioning after I die lynch x

100% scum tactic because I use that shit as well when im scum

lol

yeah man a townie who might be lynched has NO PROTOWN REASON to want to set up reads or lynches for after they can't contribute but are conftown

seriously if you're town this is the most mindless tunnel I've seen in a long time

and if you're scum, really surprised you can't make better points

[TehBrawlGuy]

this is scummy but it's a gut feeling idk

if you weren't scumreading me then that would 100% weird

I'm hardpushing you right now and from my experience being tunelled or pushed by another player is obnoxious

look, this is going to come off rude, but I genuinely don't have a nice way to say this so I'm sorry.

good players don't vote/scumread people for being obnoxious or tunneling. I want to throw tchill off a cliff but he's probably town

if you scumread people for hardpushing you, this is a sign you're having trouble thinking logically and not emotionally. don't assume good players can't do it.

[TehBrawlGuy]

I should be here. I might be on mobile and pretty stilted but I can cast a vote at least.

[TehBrawlGuy]

oh right

Tchill when I flip green you are done with pushing wheme unvoters. three mislynches is enough and

you need to honestly reevaluate tbg

.

important. you are putting enough effort into this game to be main lynch driving power, put some more effort and reevaluate more often.

this really does make me feel like you two are buddies

if sajj and I are both town, which I think is the case, we are buddies at this point

we both see the game similarly, and this game has been full of condescension towards us while the town mislynches and shits all over the thread. that kind of shared experience brings solidarity

[TehBrawlGuy]

the phrasing was awkward, but I basically said the same thing in a more general fashion, w/r/t the thread being offbase and needing to reevaluate as a whole

[TehBrawlGuy]

come on we need /one/ vote

[TehBrawlGuy]

And you'll probably get one from some poor misguided townie who thinks lynching a VT is better than a no lynch. Good luck town. You're going to need it.

honestly it is

like legit no joke I would self-hammer as VT in most games before I would no lynch

[TehBrawlGuy]

hint

i'm strongly against nolycnhes

I'm strongly against no-lynches too.

But

Spoiler:

NOT AN OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT
TehBrawlGuy(4) ~ Kublai Khan(23), Texcat(12), Myloninja13(18), Wavemode(54)
JarJarDrinks() ~
Scioness Sajj(4) ~ Golden Robster(62), JarJarDrinks(66), Hopkirk(28) Tchill13(130),
Texcat (L-1) ~ Krazy(64), Gamma Emerald, Vaxkiller(19) Scioness Sajj(29), TehBrawlGuy(67), Creature(63), Skygazer(10), Ankamius(85),

I cannot join that wagon.

i mean if you're willing to let a NL happen clearly you're not

[TehBrawlGuy]

tbh I might be alright with a nolynch if it would mean three town we're probably never lynching.

who do you think hangs tomorrow if we NL today?

my money's on tex anyway

[TehBrawlGuy]

mylo please vote tex

if you're town it prevents us from NLing

[TehBrawlGuy]

mylo you can literally be the hero of the day if you prevent no lynch

[TehBrawlGuy]

Alright, guys, before Ank posts her thoughts in detail, which of JJD or Wave do we lynch first? I'm having a hard time making a concrete choice. I have a lean between the two, but I want to know what the thread thinks.

[TehBrawlGuy]

krazy, if you had to pick one of JJD or Wave to lynch, who would it be?

[TehBrawlGuy]

Tchill, who's idea was it for you to wave to breadcrumb your addition to the hood?

[TehBrawlGuy]

Hey TBG, this is probably gonna be your last day, so have fun.

Probably, yeah. I'd appreciate it if we didn't end the day before I get to make a closing post, given the likelihood of my untimely demise.

[TehBrawlGuy]

creature, nothing I've seen warrants your addition to the townbloc tbh

[TehBrawlGuy]

How would everyone feel about mylo lynch? I don't think he gets more readable as the game progresses, he's not in our townpool, and he's not going to be of any use gamesolving. If we're going to lynch him, it should probably be now/soon. I also feel weird about the delay between him entering the thread and doing anything, although that did get kind of shortened by KK's hammer. Scum!mylo is really likely to panic there and consult the PT/stall for time to think, whereas I feel like town!mylo is far faster at hammering.

[TehBrawlGuy]

Tchill claims Universalbackup who joined the neighborhood from Performer's role.

Wave claims 2-shot Friendly Neighbor IN A NEIGHBORHOOD which used to include Performer.

Wave says he sent a PM to Tchill confirming his role (n1?)

And then a PM to Gamma confirming his role (n2?)

In this sense, Gamma being TOWN confirms both wave and Tchill.

Confirmation will confirm Tchill13 and wavemode as town. Gamma Emerald is still questionable, but it's still cool beans. We'll have 3 confirmed town (including Hopkirk).

Well, mostly. If Gamma confirms, Tchill/Gamma/Wave could still theoretically all be Scum together.

I don't think it's likely by any means, but it is

technically

possible.

[TehBrawlGuy]

We may as well proceed the day assuming Gamma will confirm and that tchill/wave are Town.

VOTE: mylo

[TehBrawlGuy]

VOTE: jjd

[TehBrawlGuy]

There is a disappointing number of people not looking in Vaxkiller's direction.

Also, I unpopularly think Golden Robster is town.

I don't feel strongly either way about GR, but I think he settles at slight town for me.

Vax is in our potential scumpool, I just feel way better about JJD. We can reevaluate vax later.

[TehBrawlGuy]

Looking back on him now, though, can you say he's actually helped the Town? He's done way more damage than anything else.

[TehBrawlGuy]

I didn't know universal backup can only inherit their own alignment.
Doesn't that mean the neighbourhood had to be all town? Otherwise we could lynch a scum neighbour then Wheme would inherit the hood and be confirmed scum right?

iirc backup only tends to inherit active roles - it can't inherit like, miller, BP. It worked out this way because performer was Vengeful, which allowed tchill to inherit.

[TehBrawlGuy]

that does mean scum UB wouldn't inherit from scum!wave unless he had an active

[TehBrawlGuy]

Universal Backup (if self-aware) is considered Normal on mafiascum.net. A Universal Backup can be of any alignment, but it should only activate upon the first death of a power role of their own alignment. A power role in this case is any role that is not Vanilla (so not a Vanilla Townie or a Mafia Goon).

literally the same page

Variations

The term "power role" is somewhat ambiguous - generally anything that is not truly Vanilla is considered a "power role", including roles like Miller. It is ultimately up to the moderator's discretion which abilities are inheritable, though it should be planned in advance.

[TehBrawlGuy]

"variations" aren't covered under normal guidelines

oshit this is a normal

you're right

[TehBrawlGuy]

L-2 I think, but better to wait for VC to be sure.

[TehBrawlGuy]

I didn't know universal backup can only inherit their own alignment.
Doesn't that mean the neighbourhood had to be all town? Otherwise we could lynch a scum neighbour then Wheme would inherit the hood and be confirmed scum right?

Honestly I don't think that would even make it past the NRG, they'd probably hardcore veto that

yeah, although if we believe the claims, this setup can have 5 conftown players in it, so I don't know how this got through either

[TehBrawlGuy]

i guess standards are different here. running that setup on one of my homesites would've earned you a lot of flak

[TehBrawlGuy]

I'm not okay with that.

I'm also not OK with town clearing ank just because she's stepping into the town lead.

not ok w/ locking TBG in as town but shouldn't be looking there today IMO.

yeah I've only been correct on 6/6 flips since coming into the game, and one of the opposing wagons to both scumflips, one of which I started the final wagon on

i can definitely see how this doesn't look painfully obvtown

[TehBrawlGuy]

What's my motivation for not bussing texcat there exactly? Posting and showing I'm on but not willing to lynch texcat? That'd make me look pretty bad when he flipped scum wouldn't it?

Aint you voting for me right now?

Can you answer this question but pretend it's me asking it ?

I can answer that, or did you want specifically tchill to?

[TehBrawlGuy]

I get it now.

What a shitty setup w/ masons, IC, Neigborizer...

why play mafia when you can just modconfirm half the town?

at least we're on the same page about this

[TehBrawlGuy]

It's 5 conftown at a time with one other slot filling in

With mafia given a tool to narrow those down

In a setup where there's no other PRs

In a 25p game

it's not about balance, it's about player agency/fun

lots of modconfirmed townies isn't fun and it destroys agency

[TehBrawlGuy]

how, TBG

the confirmed roles are static, none of the flipped or claimed PRs can confirm anybody else as town

even if those roles do a good job at staying hidden, mafia have the tools to be able to narrow down who they are over time in a way that would cause scum to deserve just losing from a sudden huge townblock if they fuck it up on

plus there's no way to keep them all alive, so once they're out in the open, there's no way to prevent mafia just killing them every night if they want to

all this really does is give a list of players that just aren't going to be lynched. mafia need to mislynch roughly half of the town to win, which is pretty normal in a game with two deaths a cycle.

these are good points why the setup is balanced, but I'm not arguing that it isn't balanced. i'm arguing that a setup with lots of modconfirmed town isn't fun.

like this setup is basically mountainous + a little bit of communication, except that Scum are pigeonholed into nightkilling 5 players before endgame regardless of how they play, and Town will sometimes get really lucky and get out of a mislynch b/c they were on someone who's confirmable.

anyway this is an aside to actually winning the game so we should probably drop it

[TehBrawlGuy]

JJD, would it help if I switched to SS? The problem has been that town has divided their votes between the 2 competing wagons, letting scum CFD this.

They tried to lynch you and then when that didn't work, they all switched to me.

This is when he's at L-1. U think he'd implicate his scumbuddy like this?

Weren't you a staunch supporter of Wheme doing exactly this to me?

Why is it so different now?

[TehBrawlGuy]

if I was scum I would of bussed texcat, not hard defended and face the heat the day after

So why areu voting for me then? Shouldn't you be more suspicious of the people that were pushing Tex?

After all, why would scum hard-defend and face the heat the next day?

I find it really hard to believe that town!you makes this argument after pushing both Dunn and I for our roles in the Wheme lynch. It's just too blatantly hypocritical. I don't buy it. Scum!you doesn't care about hypocrisy and is willing to throw whatever at the wall hoping for something to stick.

I also find it hard to believe that town!you spends most of his day today defending himself instead of attempting to make a solid push on someone else. Your argument is that you're kind of out of it, but you weren't disengaged after Lala ML, and you weren't disengaged after Dunn ML either. We finally hit Scum again and only then you're meh on the gamestate?

[TehBrawlGuy]

if I was scum I would of bussed texcat, not hard defended and face the heat the day after

So why areu voting for me then? Shouldn't you be more suspicious of the people that were pushing Tex?

After all, why would scum hard-defend and face the heat the next day?

I find it really hard to believe that town!you makes this argument after pushing both Dunn and I for our roles in the Wheme lynch. It's just too blatantly hypocritical. I don't buy it. Scum!you doesn't care about hypocrisy and is willing to throw whatever at the wall hoping for something to stick.

huh no that isn't my argument. not all. I completely agree and was pointing out the hypocrisy myself.

The words you bolded aren't mine. I was quoting GR and showing that he's voting for me even though he's saying that he should be townread for the same reason.

Oh, I see, mb.

The second part of my post still stands, though.

[TehBrawlGuy]

Kublai, Vax, and Ank need to figure out which side of this lynch they're on. Hopkirk gets a pass b/c conftown.

[TehBrawlGuy]

VOTE: gamma

l-2 i think

[TehBrawlGuy]

if this is a redflip, then I'm ok going with Ank's views, I think they're generally sound.

if this flips green we absolutely need to off JJD tomorrow

[TehBrawlGuy]

UNVOTE: gamma

policy

[TehBrawlGuy]

VOTE: skygazer

whatever sure

I think leaving Gamma alive on the rationale that Wave isn't dead is dumb b/c Hop's still alive too. If they cared about elimating conftowns instead of taking shots at players they want to silence, Hop would be dead. We can deal with him tomorrow though.

[TehBrawlGuy]

if there's a protective, hop would be protected. i would not

if there's a protective in a setup with 5 confirmable townies I'm going to be upset

i very much doubt there is

[TehBrawlGuy]

What's exactly pro town about emphasizing why there shouldn't be a protective?

because wave's using bad logic to justify townreading a slot I think has a decent chance of flipping scum

i sincerely doubt the entire scumteam is so clueless as to have not figure that out anyway

[TehBrawlGuy]

Rooster is the only major wagon I don't support rn. Gamma or sky are both better.

[TehBrawlGuy]

VOTE: gamma

[TehBrawlGuy]

No. I'm not going to let the game no-lynch.

Unless Gamma Emerald is absolutely terrible at playing mafia, he wouldn't let a friendly neighbor keep confirm towning himself around. I've got to VOTE: Golden Robster.

letting wave keep firing doesn't really /do/ anything though. he's basically conftown regardless of how many people he's hit, and by the time gamma found out he was town, the cat was already out of the bag so to speak

and having wave claim and then killing him is basically the same as killing him beforehand anyway

[TehBrawlGuy]

L-1 alert for GR btw

[TehBrawlGuy]

I'd really much rather lynch Gamma. He's at 5 right now, so we have the votes.

[TehBrawlGuy]

I'm waning on JJD but I feel good about KK or Gamma lynches tomorrow. JJD's not bad though.

[TehBrawlGuy]

I think it doesn't hold stock.
If they figured there wasn't a protective, why not kill you? You being alive says they're willing to leave conftowns alive.
If they figured there was a protective, (which is dumb) then why are they off killing claimed VTs instead of hunting for the Doc, especially since they presumably have a small unknown pool to kill in thanks to Tex?

I can't tell whether it's bad town logic or scum justification, though.

[TehBrawlGuy]

Do we have enough people here to CFD to KK, though? I don't think we do, although it would be a welcome change.

[TehBrawlGuy]

With Ank, we could put Gamma to L-2 already.

[TehBrawlGuy]

man we're getting hot at this CFD thing

[TehBrawlGuy]

i don't agree with krazy's logic, but I do think KK hard defending Gamma like he did is pretty indicative of KK being Scum.

VOTE: kk

[TehBrawlGuy]

sky unvotes like 3 posts later after seeing who's on the texwagon though

that feels overly clumsy if she's scum

[TehBrawlGuy]

i agree about GR being town, though. I was trying to get Gamma going but it wasnt enough until Ank came in to tip the wagon. There's little chance Scum guessed we'd both flip the lynch.

[TehBrawlGuy]

Anyway it seems like the only thing we're waiting on is Ank finishing her daily analysis, but I see no reason for us to do another deadline lynch for this dayphase.

Well, it

has

been very effective so far this game....

[TehBrawlGuy]

Thanks, I guess?

[TehBrawlGuy]

prodge

[TehBrawlGuy]

VOTE: vax

don't really think GR is scum

[TehBrawlGuy]

pretty much just popping in to agree with ank's assessment of the current gamestate

i'd really rather see Vax or Creature (or even Sky) swing over GR

can we not lynch town please

[TehBrawlGuy]

TBG WHY do you think GR is town

Stop just popping in and engage

i don't really want to interact with the giant walls though

just go read ank's posts for today, I think I agree with actually all of her content

[TehBrawlGuy]

I haven't liked Creature since his insistence on being in the townbloc tbh

[TehBrawlGuy]

well speak of the devil

[TehBrawlGuy]

it's less the initial push and more that IIRC you didn't stop after the raised eyebrows

town can basically just wait and prove their towniness later (i'm a great example of that this game actually, especially since you weren't in immediate danger, but scum want to be in the bloc asap to try to solidify there/avoid PoE later

[TehBrawlGuy]

there shouldn't be a townblock; every player should be scrutinised especially given how these past two scum lynches have happened

by CFD's

we could continue the streak and cfd to creature today

i'm just sayin' cfd's have been pretty on fire this game

[TehBrawlGuy]

TBH, creature had a chance to lynch me I was at L1...

and?

if he's town that makes sense
if he's scum and you're scum that makes sense
if he's scum and you're town, that still makes sense b/c he wasn't on the chopping block, and gr is also a mislynch so he doesn't care which way it swings

[TehBrawlGuy]

like the only situation where creature not hammering is AI is if Creature+GR is the scumteam and I don't think we're in that universe

[TehBrawlGuy]

honestly I have no fucking clue why anyone of either alignment does that, so I'm not gonna pretend I do

[TehBrawlGuy]

honestly I have no fucking clue why anyone of either alignment does that, so I'm not gonna pretend I do

BUT YOU DO PRETEND TO YOU JUST SAID IT MADE SENSE.

how did you manage to misread when all I posted was 4 sentences

creature not hammering you back then makes sense
creature voting JJD right now does not make sense

neither of these are alignment indicative

[TehBrawlGuy]

oooooh that's a spicy post by GR

[TehBrawlGuy]

yes your

11 points

GR is scum (that I would have to go dig through her iso to refute any of) is clearly not a wall

[TehBrawlGuy]

being a huge wagon all of D6 until we CFD'd to gamma? going to L-1 after the CFD?

once GR hits L-1, any scumbuddy can hammer, gain massive townpoints, and make Gamma look towny as fuck for being the counter to GR

[TehBrawlGuy]

YEAH, WHEN THEY AGREED WITH MY FOURTH POST OF THE GAME

STOP TOOTING YOUR OWN HORN, MY EARLY READS HAVE FUCKING BEEN BETTER THAN YOURS ANK

ACCUSE ME OF TUNNELING AGAIN AND I VOTE YOU PURELY OUT OF SPITE

GIVE ME AN ARGUMENT OR SHUT THE FUCK UP

if we're going to dickwave about reads, mine have been better than both ank's and yours and I think GR is a bad lynch

[TehBrawlGuy]

TRUST IN THE CFD

VOTE: jjd

[TehBrawlGuy]

l-1 btw

[TehBrawlGuy]

dying @ PAX, will catch up soon

[TehBrawlGuy]

Still waiting TehBrawlGuy

and PAX was still going on

anyway I'm home now but reasonably tired from spending 50 hours at con in 4 days, so expect a catch up sometime late tonight

[TehBrawlGuy]

VOTE: gr

primarily I want to see Krazy work out, and if the scumteam is sky+creature this gives us the best odds at catching them vs vax lynch. if it's vax+??? then hopefully we'll have coherence post GR lynch

i'll post more detailed shit when my head is not pounding, but you all have my blessing to end day if you're ready so that this doesnt drag on