Large Normal 221 - Endgame

[Eyes without a face]

Sorry sorry sorry sorry

Odd opening post!

[Eyes without a face]

Since there's no way to crumb this I'm just going to say I'm a multitasking one shot motion detector and babysitter. I'm using both shots tonight, don't care about the motion detect, and want to invite the scum to shoot me so they can play roulette with my babysit. Come on guys, sure I could hit scum... But you could also get two townies for the price of one. The gamble... Is yours to make

VOTE: saudade

Town binning this.

[Eyes without a face]

Hi all. Sorry my catch up yesterday was cut short. I promise to try my best to do better today.

ofrhz reaction to Nero's SR is rubbing me the right way. I now TR ofrhz

[Eyes without a face]

Nero vs Montosh is never SvS

[Eyes without a face]

End of page 8 and have town lean on montosh. The way he's arguing and responding doesn't strike me as one that could come from scum being FoS'd

[Eyes without a face]

Btw I am on-and-off for the next couple of hours. I read between sessions of other activities. But I still promise to be all caught up within a few hours (if you don't all go berserk and shitpost half a dozen more pages per hour)

[Eyes without a face]

EOP 9. Nero town. Vork town lean.

[Eyes without a face]

Hello person I don’t think I’ve seen before!

Hello to you too

[Eyes without a face]

sup eyes

Hi ofrhz. Nice meeting you again.

[Eyes without a face]

also, what a coincidence! i ended up rolling mafia in my first mafia game!

I dunno what to make of this. While I could see it coming from a trolling town; the last 2 times this happened in games I spectated they both flipped scum (the last one was Almost50, the older one was Firebringer iirc)

[Eyes without a face]

It's Almost50, confirmed.

If that's true then this is confirmed scum. I've seen him do it in this game and he was also a replacement.

[Eyes without a face]

Really? Let's find out. Do your best.

VOTE: Niko

[Eyes without a face]

you said that the last time someone claimed scum they were scum, but what about eji in panic room?

1- I think that jazz game came after panic room
2- I didn't even remember ejji in panic room because I WAS SCUM THERE, do didn't need to figure out anyone's alignment

[Eyes without a face]

But even if you actually had forgot about it, me remembering you about it didn`t do anything about your read on me apparently.

It's still 2:1 that you're scum from that sample!

[Eyes without a face]

AND if you are A50 that would make it 1 out of 1 = 100% )a sample of 1 is never applicable in statistics, but still.. you did it before and most recently)

[Eyes without a face]

Would feel more strongly about this if I didn't tell eyes exactly how I read him in our last game together

Do you think I deliberately responded this way to get TR'd by you specifically in a game this big?

[Eyes without a face]

Oh are you Kokichi?

Kokichi wasn't in Panic Room. Here's the players list:

TemporalLich
High Risk Gamble*
awestfie
Saudade
Flavor Leaf, replacing fumiki*, replacing Lawliett
themilkcartonkid, replacing maadneet*
ofrhz
Flubbernugget
Eyes without a face
rosterfoster
ejjinami

Obviously Niko isn't me, not ofrhz, not roster and not Saudade. I don't think it's awestfie either (player is indefinitely banned with all alts and hydras) and for some reason I don't think it's FL.

TemporalLich
High Risk Gamble*
fumuki*
Lawliett
themilkcartonkid
maadneet*
Flubbernugget
ejjinami

Gun to my head it's Ejji/Fumuki because those are the two Niko mentioned from Panic Room

[Eyes without a face]

Oh, and I'm bulletproof so scum don't waste your shoot on me

FUCK, this is soooooo forced.

VOTE: Niko

Seriously. Why would a BP townie tell scum that they are BP so they don't waste a shot on them?? If I was BP I'd stop at softing a PR (won't get lynched today bc of role) and actually bait the scum NK.

[Eyes without a face]

Like if Biko doesn't flip scum I will grow a face!

[Eyes without a face]

Vorkuta is probably scum though

Are you going to declare everyone who votes you scum?

[Eyes without a face]

The unique reasonable vote on me is ofrhz's.

Why?

[Eyes without a face]

NK15 seems like the skeptical kind of mod that don't supports 4 man teams

Not true. viewtopic.php?f=55&t=77628&hilit=+Saudade was a 4 man scum team setup. You're just making up stuff to mislead the town and you;re probably counting on people not cross examining what you say and just taking it for granted.

[Eyes without a face]

since I'm *actually* bp and therefore would confirm myself

How is bp confirmable? And what does it have to do with your alignment? For all we know you could be a 1-shot BP scum with vig in play or you could be 1-shot BP SK

[Eyes without a face]

this seems like fake dumbtelling or TMI.

Latter is more likely. Niko is claiming SK I think.

[Eyes without a face]

Also the hyperposting and continuously lulz claiming scum is just annoying and I'm down to pl that.

It's not even a pl for me. It's a genuine scum read.

FTR: I am fully against a Vorkuta lynch today.

[Eyes without a face]

Ircher had a 25p game with only 4 scum as far as I know

NK15 seems like the kind of mod that would rather put lots of killing roles than to put a 4 man team as well

I won't argue the first line (I haven't researched it), but I ndid provide evidence to the contrary of your second line. "seems like" doesn't really compute here. Either you do have info to support what you claim or you're making it all up. Which is it?

[Eyes without a face]

babysitter is the kind of protective that can kill instead of protecting, and motion detector seems like something to put in a game with a considerable number of PRs

That's exactly what unknown 15 had in that game I linked, still with a 4 man scum team.

[Eyes without a face]

babysitter is like the kind of protective you would put in a game where you want people to die fast

Babysitter only kills one person and does with them.

Nut seriously, I am now second guessing my read on Niko. Would scum Niko really intentionally lie about the mod meta which is something that can be (and has been) easily proven wrong? I am now more inclined to think Niko is a troll account for whomever they really are.

[Eyes without a face]

ok, so you are a claimed sk yay?

Thank you.

[Eyes without a face]

I dunno why you'd even think there was a strongman in this setup unless you are a bp :/

Exactly!

[Eyes without a face]

@Niko: If I volunteer to be lynched today and I flip TOWN, would you be willing to volunteerily eat rope on D2? No ifs and buts. Consider it your vig shot on me and then die for your bad reads )if you're town to begin with). Please say yes.

[Eyes without a face]

Like, nobody wants a shitty vig around anyway, so let's test your "most confident read". I would offer you the same bargain on Vork, except I dunno id he is willing to volunteer to be today's lynch.

[Eyes without a face]

This is literally a scum claim.

He is voting me and calling me scum, but here he is treating me as town, and is willing to waste one lynch on himself to actually make me ACCEPT my own lynch.

This is

literally

stupid.

If I was scum then how the hell so I invite you to lynch me first and make the condition to your lynch next for me to flip TOWN? It goes without saying that if I flip scum you're totally off the hook.

[Eyes without a face]

Also you'v just ACCEPTED the offer by voting me. That's doubly stupid.

[Eyes without a face]

If there's an Odd-Night-Vig, please shoot Niko. I mow suspect the claim was intended to out you specifically. Scum may have been informed of your existence (and this IS something Unknown 15 would include in his game).

[Eyes without a face]

By this logic it would also be impossible for you to make posts such as "I would be fine with a lynch on me" as scum, but it seems like you've made them as scum before.

Did I ask for someone to be lynched after I flip though? The key idea here is YOU GET LYNCHED if I'm town. I explicitly said to consider it your vig shot if you were a real vig.

[Eyes without a face]

Like, if you are truly town aligned you're so bad that you should at least be held responsible for your own poor read on me. If you are scum you should pay for pushing a mislynch on me. Either way you should be removed from the game as soon as I flip.

[Eyes without a face]

If Eyes flips red (what happens 29 out of 30 times), I would lynch LuckyOtter next by the way.

Fine. Now what happens if I flip that 1 out of 30 times? Who gets lynched next?

[Eyes without a face]

No. We resolve me vs Nikp today. Even if we assume the worst (that's Niko being a town vig) then it'd still be best to either lynch them and save me or lynch me and save them the trouble of shooting me. Remove the distraction.

[Eyes without a face]

I can hardy wrap my head about what PK is saying overall. I get the feeling he says something then follows up with something totally unrelated then he says something than probably contradicts what he said earlier. I mean it's probably town indicative that he doesn't have an organized thought process (thus not pushing a certain agenda) but my gosh I really could do with a sum of his views all put in one neat post.

[Eyes without a face]

Creature has been killed.

GOOD shot.

[Eyes without a face]

Creature(7) pisskop, RedFlavor, Vorkuta, Kop, Nero Cain, rosterfoster, Jesus Louisus,
Niko(10)Kirari Momobami,Eyes without a face,ofrhz,Nero Cain,Kublai Khan,Lil Uzi Vert,Jesus Louisus,Montosh,Alchemist21,rosterfoster,

The only 2 on both wagons were Nero & JL. Nero is town. Not sure about JL. Those who voted Niko but not Creature may have more scum on them (not that I personally SR'd Creature, but scum knew he was with them so they probably didn't get on him early if at all)

[Eyes without a face]

Creature has been killed.

GOOD shot.

VOTE: Eyes

Look what happened to Niko.

[Eyes without a face]

He was tunneling me.

[Eyes without a face]

My role PM says whoever posses me off eats rope.

[Eyes without a face]

@Nero: why would Monty Python (heh. I am becoming a WORM) reveal that Creature was the only scum of the 4 if he was informed of their alignments already. Wouldn't it have looked better for him to stop at all these people are town?

In my view if Montosh is scum then at least one other scum is on that list (makes sense to try to discredit you if that's the case). Or he could be just town who had reasons to TR the other 3 and made the joke about Creature's lack of activity and hit the bull's eye.

[Eyes without a face]

PGO, maybe it was a bait. That could explain the 2 kills.

Creature wasn't even a visiting role.

[Eyes without a face]

Both RedFlavor and Vorkuta have been early on the Creature wagon and not on Niko, so I don't think they're scum with Creature. My attention is on rosterfoster and Jesus Louisus who were both late on Creature (could have been bus'ing) and also joined Niko late (could be to ensure a mislynch goes through). Thanks for mentioning your vote on Creature, Alch. I don't think you would have brought it up if you were scum bus'ing your p there.

I am also sus of Kublai Khan, but not sure if he is scum or if I'm disliking his play style and reads.

Looking back at 203 I think if Montosh is town thn roster is very likely town. and since I do have a town lean on Montosh I am just going to vote Jesus Louisus for now.

VOTE: Jesus Louisus

@JL: Would you care to summarize your play since the start of the game? I don't think I've seen anything decisive there but maybe I missed something, so help me see why I shouldn't think you're scum.

[Eyes without a face]

Montosh is 100% town.

Hmm no not a fan of Montosh here. Too serious a reaction and I think Nero has a fair point in reacting to that.

Also it only took Saudade 2 pages to blow up the game, nice.

I read this and thought I had scum pt access for a sec.

VOTE: HeWhoSwims

I'll try to make my question more answerable. Your first few posts were just fluff. This nis the first one that makes some meaning. Why is this scum indicative of HWS? And what's your current read on nomnomnomnomnomnom (to an eternity)?

[Eyes without a face]

I think you are both town, now lets lynch a useless Creature slot.

VOTE: Creature

L-1

Why did you fake L-1 on Creature?

[Eyes without a face]

What are you all doing???? Lynching me is bad for you all.

You didn't explain this, did you?

[Eyes without a face]

Unrelated:

VOTE: RedFlavor

This makes RedFlavor more likely town to me. Iirc, Creature is one of those who hate bus'ing

[Eyes without a face]

PGO, maybe it was a bait. That could explain the 2 kills.

Seeing as PGO isn't normal AND Creature wasn't a visiting role this looks like posting for the sake of posting (i.e. you didn't think it through)

[Eyes without a face]

What about a crumb for a fake Miller claim down the line?

Who crumbs Miller? To my understanding you claim it early or you get lynched for it.

[Eyes without a face]

Honestly, I am not going anywhere with it.

So why post about it at all?

In sum: Your ISO looks very much shallow to me, and has a few points to clarify, but it's not like you're doing much of scum hunting despite what looks like a good # of posts (in short: You;re active lurking, and I suspect you're also role fishing with that gun reference)

[Eyes without a face]

Both RedFlavor and Vorkuta have been early on the Creature wagon and not on Niko, so I don't think they're scum with Creature.

If there's scum on the Creature wagon, wouldn't they be more likely to be earlier on it? Red and vork were votes 2 and 3, not putting creature in any real danger. The second wave was Kop(Niko), Nero, Roster, Jesus. I just don't see scum doing that when Creature is not even obviously the lynch.

Now, Roster immediately unvotes, as does Red after Alchemist joins. So I'm still good with Red as scum here. Roster is unclear. I'm good with Alchemist and Nero as town, and leaning town on Jesus.

Scum Creature does not respond well to pressure, so I don't think his partners would start a wagon on him unless it was meant to be a full bus (i.e. they won't unvote when it grows because that's exactly what would happen if you start a wagon on scum Creature). So, scum were probably forced to join the wagon later on for town credit in case it did go through. Why would scum try to bus a commuter anyway? Creature was supposed to live for 4 days and 4 nights if he had tried to play the game.

I'd agree with you if Creature was a goon or if it was someone else.. someone who could actually argue against their own lynch and appear a little bit more townie. That way the scum voting early are successfully distancing but not actually bus'ing.

[Eyes without a face]

@nom: I don't really care if you trust me, but you sound like you're trying your best to engage and solve. I would probably be willing to give JL another day/night if you are. I get the feeling he is sincerely appealing here, so maybe he is town playing scummy?

Nero is town. ofrhz is town. Virkuta I think is town. Redflavor too.

The one thing I had against HWS was his 203, I saw that as feeding the fire between Nero and Montosh. But I think you pretty well redeemed the slot, so I'm going to put you at town-lean together with Montosh.

I have no idea what to do with the rest of the slots. For example, Kirai's 1174 went against what I had perceived Creature's play to be. Furthermore, Creature voted a town read and 2 town leans of mine, so Kirai's post didn't sit well with me, but I don't know if that is enough for me to vote there.

So, while I unvote JL now I don't know where exactly to vote next. If you (or anyone else that I TR) have a compelling case on someone I shall sheep it.

UNVOTE:

P-edit: That was all written before 1317. I dunno how to feel about JL wagon hopping without a real purpose. I think I'll just revote and see how this goes.

VOTE: JL

[Eyes without a face]

Nero is town. ofrhz is town. Virkuta I think is town. Redflavor too.

Can I have your towncase on Redflavor?

It's a collection of small things coming together. Let me try:

147 is him trying to trim down the noise over nothing. I think scum could benefit from the noise and not try to shut it down.

156 asserts it wasn't a random call to drop the nonsense

170 could be seen as defending a p, I guess. But then he did vote Creature early (2nd vote on the wagon) in 383

496 is meh. didn't see the need for him to bring that up as scum (that he faked it before). I mean, it could be seen as establishing association with Montosh, but then he should have had another player say that rather than him stating he faked it before himself.

500 assuming you yourself are town, why is Red defending your predecessor rather than let the wagon grow or even hop on it? After all, HWS was LHF the way he played (or rather didn't!)

503 same

505 seeing as I scum read JL I am more inclined to take this as a town vote

563 back on Creature. He did find a reason to hop off the wagon on scum creature and he's coming back to it at will

Then a series of votes on JL again and again.. and -again- I think it's a townie move to vote JL until I see a flip. I may reconsider if he flips green.

Hmmm... naybe RF should be a town lean not a town read?

[Eyes without a face]

Eyes is obvscum

State your case

[Eyes without a face]

When I flip VT please lynch nom. You don't want this type of death tunneling going anywhere near lylo.

You only say that because I haven't unvoted you. This isn't a deathtunnel. You're the scummiest player on this table and you die today.

So be it. But I haven't lied about anything.

You're not helping your own case my friend. You voted nom, then voted me, the voted montosh in less than one hour, and you're calling for nom to be lynched next when you're still voting Montosh yourself. What gives?

[Eyes without a face]

Both RedFlavor and Vorkuta have been early on the Creature wagon and not on Niko, so I don't think they're scum with Creature.

If there's scum on the Creature wagon, wouldn't they be more likely to be earlier on it? Red and vork were votes 2 and 3, not putting creature in any real danger. The second wave was Kop(Niko), Nero, Roster, Jesus. I just don't see scum doing that when Creature is not even obviously the lynch.

Now, Roster immediately unvotes, as does Red after Alchemist joins. So I'm still good with Red as scum here. Roster is unclear. I'm good with Alchemist and Nero as town, and leaning town on Jesus.

Scum Creature does not respond well to pressure, so I don't think his partners would start a wagon on him unless it was meant to be a full bus (i.e. they won't unvote when it grows because that's exactly what would happen if you start a wagon on scum Creature). So, scum were probably forced to join the wagon later on for town credit in case it did go through. Why would scum try to bus a commuter anyway? Creature was supposed to live for 4 days and 4 nights if he had tried to play the game.

I'd agree with you if Creature was a goon or if it was someone else.. someone who could actually argue against their own lynch and appear a little bit more townie. That way the scum voting early are successfully distancing but not actually bus'ing.

I feel like this comes from someone with too much info

Here

If you really believed in your case then you would have followed my 'info'. The fact that you are dismissing what I say doesn't go with you claiming this to be 'too much info'. You can't have your cake and eat it too, pal. Which is it? Am BS'ing or am I slipping too much info?

[Eyes without a face]

Btw Jesus I don’t think Nom is scum. The points they are making are different to Eyes, who is using the whole ‘everyone must act completely logically at all times’ approach.

I didn't say that. I made my case on JL starting 1150 through 1157 (minus 1 post where I mentioned Creature voting RF makes him more likely town).

I even actually unvoted JL in 1325 because I felt like he was emotionally disturbed at being pushed, so I figured he may actually be town, but then he went on to vote everyone he could and it pinged me even harder, because -as town- I would be focused on one particular player that I would be most confident in them being scum.

Note that he said later to lynch from his wagon. Well I don't see Montosh voting him. In fact, I've just checked and he never voted JL the whole game. How's that for hot garbage spewed by our beloved JL?

In fact, if JL flips green I'd say you sir are confirmed scum for knowing this was a townie despite his play.

[Eyes without a face]

One of my problems is that I also have reasons to be careful about Eyes but Jesus is just scummier overall.

Then why don't you engage me about them reasons? I kind of reached out for you already and you didn't engage.

[Eyes without a face]

I would rather a quote (just one), instead of some waving-hands about what he has done.

Here's a quote for your smart bum:

What are you all doing???? Lynching me is bad for you all.

You didn't explain this, did you?

Lynching town is bad.

He initially was crumbing a PR (that's the way I read it) and even though I didn't buy it his appealing hinted he might be (which is why I wanted to unvote him and let him be for one more day), but then he claimed VT. Tell me how lynching a VT is "bad for us all"?? It happens all the time, you know.

[Eyes without a face]

the way roster is defending JL suggests JL might be a strong scum role they cannot afford to lose now!

[Eyes without a face]

JL also said nom was a scum lean in 1164m yet in 1350 he says he doesn't think nom is scum. Which is it?

He also says he is not advocating a lynch on nom when had already voted earlier (the 3 successive votes I referred to). So, he scum reads nom but doesn't think he's scum and he voted him but doesn't want to lynch him? If I had a jaw it would have hit the floor already.

[Eyes without a face]

Fine. I'll just stay on JL and let you all sort thing out. My only other option would be Vorkuta, but only if a serious wagon springs out there. Not voting outside of these two until they're both dead or mechanically cleared. Thanks for your time and dedication.

[Eyes without a face]

DV probably town bc why would scum not jump on me in this situation? I am well aware Niko flipping green made m look bad and DV wasn't even on Niko so it would be easy for scum him to vote me here and still look clean.

@JL: English isn't my first language so maybe emotionally disturbed wasn't the right term to use. Sorry if that came off as a personal insult, but if you read it in context you'd probably realize it wasn't.

[Eyes without a face]

By the way Eyes since you asked me what were my doubts about you, it's honestly a lot of how you word things.

There's a lot of subtext in what you write, things between the lines and implications. Normally I don't base reads on that because it could be just me but when I see people like Roster underlining the same things this is when I start to think I have a point to explore. A lot of your tone feels exaggerated and verbose for the sake of being verbose.

It is my writing style. Because I'm not an English speaker I tend to try to use more words to define what I'm saying. Else it feels that my PoV is vaguely expressed and might not be clear enough. But I understand what you're saying.

[Eyes without a face]

I don't feel like subtext has anything to do with writing style though.

Subtext is when your arguments have implications, and roster's arguments does show them.

Can you like give me an example here? I'm afraid I don't completely understand.

[Eyes without a face]

I mean, give me text I wrote and then explain the implications. (I tale it that implications are hidden meanings not explicitly mentioned. Right?)

[Eyes without a face]

OIC. Well, unfortunately I can't change that. I write the way I think and I don't try to mold it one way or another before I post.

[Eyes without a face]

I wonder what's the resistance to HWS seeing everybody softed a scumread on them but never pulled a train on him like they did to me

Explain why you moved from HeWhoSwims to RedFlavor.

HeWhoSwims quickly became a boring wagon.

Deduction:

This feels like crappy scum theatre to me.

Consider my lynchpool Eyes/Pops/Alch atm

Yeah, that's the best case I've seen in a while. If you are town here I don't think we have a chance in hell.

VOTE: roster

[Eyes without a face]

Fine. I'll just stay on JL and let you all sort thing out. My only other option would be Vorkuta, but only if a serious wagon springs out there. Not voting outside of these two until they're both dead or mechanically cleared. Thanks for your time and dedication.

Oops! I wonder how come I wasn't scrutinized for the typo. I obviously meant roster not Vorky.

[Eyes without a face]

RF is eh. I would need to think about that. I don’t see him and Eyes as a team though

This is someone setting up mislynches. Lynch either, they flip town and then we can lynch the other because I said they can't be scum together.

[Eyes without a face]

Red and Alch confirmed townies to me now. roster has become my top scum read. I still scum ream JL but I don't know if roster would obv.scum this hard to protect his p.

[Eyes without a face]

VOTE: roster
VOTE: roster
VOTE: roster
VOTE: roster
VOTE: roster
VOTE: roster
VOTE: roster
VOTE: roster


8 votes on roster >> roster is lynched and is revealed to be scum.

[Eyes without a face]

I don’t see why you quoted 601 when I didn’t quote it in my post.

I know you didn't because it would have ruined your shade on Alch. You selectively chose your quote to make it look like Alch was scum with Creature.

[Eyes without a face]

Hust because you didn't quote something doesn't mean it didn't exist. It did and you opted to ignore it.

[Eyes without a face]

Like you seem to think I’m not allowed to have more than one scum read.

Now you're putting word in my mouth. I never said that. I said you are setting up mislynches on both Alch and RedFlavor because you are scum yourself.

[Eyes without a face]

Now lynch me if you dare. because once I flip attention will switch to you and your selective quoting. Maybe you are counting on people being disengaged and having short memories, but you made a fatal mistake quoting that Creature post because I remember having read the one I quoted most recently too so you actually are responsible for your own lynch, mr scum genius.

[Eyes without a face]

I don’t see why you quoted 601 when I didn’t quote it in my post.

I know you didn't because it would have ruined your shade on Alch. You selectively chose your quote to make it look like Alch was scum with Creature.

Clearly. Why else would I be shading Alch? But I don’t understand how that post means Alch isn’t scum with Creature (which is what you were implying)

Because the natural thing to do is to ask someone why they moved off a wagon they themselves were promoting without giving a reason.

[Eyes without a face]

DeasVail, have you played with Eyes before?

roster did. he knows my scum game well enough because he was scum with me and he sure as hell knows this is not it. He just thinks I'm an easy push either today or down the way.

Like, he is defending JL hard and pushing me as scum when he said I was busing both him and awest when were scum together. Wouldn't make more sense for him to have pushed JL as my p then?

[Eyes without a face]

Indeed, but the point about the Creature votes is very correct.

I think Eyes was kind of pulling out random people who were town and then found townresd in what RF was saying. I don’t think he’d do that to a partner (I was scum with him once and he was obvbussing is both very hard at one point).

Here. He says he doesn't think I'd do what I did to RedFlavor as a partner because I obvbus my partners in his experience. The question is why is he not considering JL for scum if he scum reads me for real?

[Eyes without a face]

I WON! <Insert devilsh giggles>