Large Normal 223 | New Beginnings | GAME OVER

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

I thought something smelled funny

SORRY. I did eat some cabbage and beans.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

^I thought I saw that crumb but didn't want to say it aloud.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

So maybe this game isn't role madness and all of our prs have just outted themselves. Fun.

Not all of them. I am sitting tight with my lips sealed.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Would that mean a roleblocker targeted me then?

No. No Result is the correct format for this sight. It's in the wiki. You get "No actions were performed on your target" if you target someone who can be targeted and wasn't visited by anyone else. You get "C, Y & Z actions were performed on your target" if you target someone who can be targeted and was also targeted by others. You get "No Result" if you target an Ascetic, a Commuter, a Hider, a target that was made Ascetic by being targeted by a Rolestopper, just as well as if you yourself have been RB'd or JK'd.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Yes, because Scum would claim Voyeur of all the roles on the wiki. COME ON!

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

@Carca: I swear I am not acting up. This is a mere friendly advice and nothing more: On D1 you claim Ascetic but NOT Masons. You don't put your Mason buddy at the top of your reads list if you have no in-thread reason to support/justify the read. Of course, that is unless you Mason buddy is FL or me, because we will claim it and nobody would believe us.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

In my nightmares I see myself and the rest of town too stubborn to lynch scum!Dalton because even though he's scummily glazing by, it's not "scum indicative for him" or some shit.

To be fair, Rick’s actions thus far are par for the course. If we have a vig he or she should just kill Rick.

Don't give me directions. Please and thank you.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Guys.. I'm the Vig. I am also the Doctor. And aside from being a Cop, Jailer and Tracker I am also a Fruit Vendor. (Did I miss anything??)

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Ohm and since PGO isn't Normal then I am a Reflexive Townie with a Loaded Gun (would I lie to you?)

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

hey jjd wanna play a game

Sure. I LOVE games

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

I think you forgot about the Friendly Neighbor part.

Oh, yes.. YES. THANK YOU. I am that too.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

@Garmr: It is STANDARD. You're just not familiar with it. Watcher gets "You saw Nothing" or "Nobody visited your target" id SUCCESSFUL vs "No Result" if it failed. Cop gets Guilty/Not Guilty/No Result. In any case No Result means your action failed.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

hey jjd wanna play a game

Sure. I LOVE games

It's an action adventure game called "Catch the scum". You get to choose your starter weapon.

The "townizer" makes it so that you quit your silly murking and allow yourself to be readable.
Alternativley, you can refuse that weapon and obtain the "mirror" and instantly win the game because you've found scum.

Carca, my dear friend. You have played with me enough times to be able to get a hint. I am 100% Town here, and you should be able to tell if you refer to both the game I was Town with scum you (the RC, PP, N_M, Skitter, NC.. etc one) AND the one I was Scum with Town you (The one with Saudade and FL as IC??). I've been VERY TRANSPARENT to you all. (OK, that's a lie.. I wasn't completely transparent, but still.. close enough)

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

In my nightmares I see myself and the rest of town too stubborn to lynch scum!Dalton because even though he's scummily glazing by, it's not "scum indicative for him" or some shit.

To be fair, Rick’s actions thus far are par for the course. If we have a vig he or she should just kill Rick.

Don't give me directions. Please and thank you.

You're not the vig. Knowing you, there definitely would be an extra kill.

How about EVEN Night Vig?? (See? You can't beat me in the game of fake claiming!)

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

WAIT! I want to retract that. I am DISLOYAL. Yup. That's it. I am a DISLOYAL VIGILANTE. I shot .. erm... Cliff?? That's why I am not chasing his ass anymore!

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

How to win mafia scum.
Lynch texcat

Did she flip scum

if yes congrats you lynched scum.


If no lynch lynch her town reads you'll have lynched scum congrats you won.


VOTE: Texcat

We should ask for a full read list then

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

I think this frustration means Garmr is more likely town.

Ok.. then I shot Garmr. that's why I am confident he's town.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

You said he was likely town and I confirmed he is. I shot Garmr and he didn't die and I'm disloyal so my shot only kills non-town.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Guys.. I'm the Vig. I am also the Doctor. And aside from being a Cop, Jailer and Tracker I am also a Fruit Vendor. (Did I miss anything??)

I legit am doctor

I don't believe your claim, but I've shot you too so you're town (and most likely bluffing).

So... who did I shoot already?? Cliff, Rick, Garmr, most likely dave and probably Titus (yeah, it was a bit foggy last night and I had to finish my mission quick to get to my favourite dancer's number at a gentlemen's club).

I -of course- didn't need to waste a bullet on Carca as she had fake claimed Mason to protect the real Mason who will remain unnamed, so I deduced she must be town too.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Also, Cliff is a PR, get off of him

No shit? I bet half the players are PRs at the very least. We have a VOYEUR (not a strong investigative, is it?), a pair of Masons (yeah, and one is already dead), and having a look at my role I kinda think this is a Role Madness game disguised as a Normal. The problem is half the PRs (if not more) are USELESS.

So, it's better to try and figure out who's NOT a PR, if you know what I mean.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

the fuck going on

I wish I knew the answer to this question.

What question? It was an informative statement. Do you see a question mark?

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

On a serious note, from what I have gathered, I think I essentially have negative town utility

You "think"??? Oh, God, No. Not another one.

Can you reread your role PM and contact the mod if needs be to make sure you know what you role is, and then come back to tell us if it IS a negative utility? (I don't suppose you'd be unsure about Miller,Ascetic.. etc.)

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

the fuck going on

I wish I knew the answer to this question.

What question? It was an informative statement. Do you see a question mark?

There was nothing informative in that statement

Of course there was. It tells us there is a FUCK in this game, and that it was happening AT THE TIME OF THAT POST. Duh!

So, I guess it's time for a partial mass claim: Everybody please claim whether your role allows you to give a fuck or not.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

@Rick Dalton

Do you not think that a neapolitan basically has negative town utility in a role madness game? Specifically in a game that no one knows is role madness?

the term you're looking for is

USELESS

. Negative Utility HARMS the Town, and Nea -albeit useless- does NOT hurt the town. It doesn't give us false results. It doesn't prevent other TPRs from doing their job. It doesn't result in extra kills. So, no.. Nea is NOT a Negative Utility.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Also there is likely 1-2 VTs in this setup (the thought of it being a Role Madness one + The possibility of there being a Nea), so if there's a New they can give us an IC or two.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

@Rick Dalton

Do you not think that a neapolitan basically has negative town utility in a role madness game? Specifically in a game that no one knows is role madness?

the term you're looking for is

USELESS

. Negative Utility HARMS the Town, and Nea -albeit useless- does NOT hurt the town. It doesn't give us false results. It doesn't prevent other TPRs from doing their job. It doesn't result in extra kills. So, no.. Nea is NOT a Negative Utility.

Yeah but from my perspective lets just say there are zero vanillas in the game and no one knows that as a fact. In fact, for the sake of this thought process, assume it hasn't even been talked about at all and assume the neapolitan assumes a "standard" ratio of VT to PR exists. If that neapolitan is targeting his scumreads then he is more likely to think that they are scum than PR when they come back as "not vanilla", right?

So if there are no vanillas in the game and the neapolitan is using his power in this way then isn't he more likely to advocate for potential mislynches, especially if he doesn't publicly disclose WHY he thinks his target is scummy?

Like unless I am missing something there is literally NO benefit to a neapolitan in a game with no vanillas, in which case the above logic makes me believe it would be negative town utility.

Mate.. Neapolitan is never used in a -say- 50% VT game. That would be damn too powerful. You can literally confirm half of the players. Maybe a Vanilla Cop instead (gets the same result for VTs and Goons)

Neapolitan automatically means 0-2 VTs in this game.

Now consider 0. Why is it "negative". Nea becomes effectively a Visitor. Results don't matter because everyone's a PR, but still no harm done.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

So if there are no vanillas in the game and the neapolitan is using his power in this way then isn't he more likely to advocate for potential mislynches, especially if he doesn't publicly disclose WHY he thinks his target is scummy?

If Nea doesn't expose their reason they're no different than anyone else advocating a lynch on someone they view as scummy. If they do state their reason people will tell them they are wrong and the result they got only means the target is not Vanilla Town.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

That's a bit different. It used to be a full Cop, and that was even more powerful in a 9-players setup. Nea can check for VTs only so basically won't confirm the other TPR (I assume that would be a Doctor?).

But imagine a setup with 17 players and like 7 of then being VTs, and then the Nea was lucky enough to confirm 3 of them in the opening 3 nights!! That is why a VC is used instead, as that would not confirm anyone's alignment.. just that they have no special powers.

Again.. in Newbie games it used to be a full Cop.. so confirms the alignment of everyone. Nea instead only confirms the alignment of VTs so no explicit guilty on scum and no confirming the other TPR.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

I am with Rick on this. If there's more than one VT, ONLY ONE should claim today.

Obviously I am no VT (I do give a fuck, but I'm limited/gated it's virtually useless)

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Hypothetical VT claim = Hypothetical Nea on them = Hypothetical Doctor on Nea

Now scum need to shoot the claimed VT to prevent them from being an IC. Either that or they keep in looking for stronger PRs (including the Doctor) and we do end up with an IC.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Nobody said anything about a massclaim, gobbley. All we want is for the VT to claim, and if there's more than one then just the first one. We just want ONE VT claim, not a massclaim.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Whats funny is i have done a cs before with a neapolitan and the only vt in the game was a mafia role that inspected as vt called a Lazy Goon

What's even funnier is this is a NORMAL game (according to MafiaScum Normal Guides).

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

@Evee: Would you believe I initially shrugged off RD's 2480 (last line) but you managed to convince me better than he did and now I want to lynch you?

VOTE: Evee

I also don't know about profii. I mean, I could see a scum motivation behind 2487 (too many confirmed players to kill in one night) but I refuse to believe he would be so blunt about it as scum.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

@profii: Damn! You do have a STRONG argument. (You're also town for it)

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

OK.. maybe we go the profii way then. Nobody needs to claim.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

@profii: Who should I vote? Give me 2-3 options please

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

WAIT! I knew I was forgetting something.. CARCA IS ASCETIC. She's ALREADY dead.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

WAIT! I knew I was forgetting something.. CARCA IS ASCETIC. She's ALREADY dead.

Or is she? Wifom

Is the assumption I'm making

She explicitly claimed it when the Voyeur said a Doctor visited her.

We need to elect a new IC in her stead.. and one that a Doctor/Jailer can actually protect

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

You should see the way I look at myself in the mirror.

Narcissist peacock! (AP spells it with double e and a space)

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Eevee wagon is worse than Tchill wagon

No it's not. Reread 2491.. and the middle line precisely. Did you see it yet?

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Are you trying to say she's a sk

Sk or scum in a team that know there's another scum team. He killed Gamma. he's just not sure if a Doc/JK blocked the other kill or if the other team also shot Gamma. Like, if he had shot someone

other than Gamma

he would be certain there's a Doc/JK, wouldn't he? Because his own kill failed. But because he shot a claimed Mason he doesn't know whether "they" shot someone else or they ended up shooting the same Mason he/his team shot.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Disclaimer: I apologize if Evee is a she. I don't see a pronoun.

P-edit: WHY would s/he be confident with any degree at all if s/he had considered single ball? The fact that s/he is "somewhat confident" there should have been 2 kills means she knows there's another killing source in the game.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

OK, but were you at all "somewhat confident"??

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Pretty sure if scum's kill was blocked they'd already be all over it in their daychat, and clear to never mention or even fathom that a doctor exists.

Evee is not a member of the team that had its kill blocked. s/he just knows there should have been another body other than his/her side's kill (which was Gamma)

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

please refer me to a normal game duo-killing faction setup where they're aware of each other's existence

If you are in a team of 3 in a game this size you KNOW there has to be another team. You would not be "informed" of it, but you will still be able to tell.

Why haven't I ever seriously considered your placement in this game, jjd?

I dunno what you mean. So you mean evaluating me? As in.. question my alignment? If that's what you're asking it's probably because Gamma told you I was Town in your Masonry thread. Gamma knows me well enough (and I know him too), and he usually makes sorting me a priority due to that fact.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

@Carca: 3 different people saw the same thing. I suggest we wait for the likes of dave, Titus & profii to weigh in on this specific issue. Why these 3? Because I know they're analytical in their play. They'll probably be able to tell us if this is "nothing" as you suggest it to be.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Not entirely sure how this Nea thing is supposed to even catch scum? Wouldn't they just fakeclaim something easy like informed?

Huh???

First things first: Read the case on Evee and tell me what you think
Second: Who said Nea catches scum? And what "information" are you referring to?

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

@gobble: Neapolitan only check for Vanilla Townies. They get the result of Vanilla Townie/Not Vanilla Townie. Everyone who is not explicitly a VT will give Not VT. Informed is not VT. Goon is not VT. Town Doctor, Mafia Roleblocker, SK.. etc are all obviously NOT VANILLA TOWN

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

I’m debating certain things internally with EeveeLution. Will get back to you in the morning.

You share a PT with Evee???? Interesting!

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

im trying to tie dave and titus together

Go to the Boon Wars thread(s). They've been a team in them.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Anyone else want to say something stupidly incriminating for everyone to easily jump on?

OK.. something stupidly incriminating for everyone to easily jump on.. there.. I said it. Now what's the catch?

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Apologies. Busy until Friday, but I will catchup then for 100% sure.
In the meantime, I'll read up on the history of the Mongolian and Byazantine Empires. This will make sense later.

I can confirm this. I'll add that I'm also busy which Hectic can confirm.

-Kork

Well, I'm not busy which nobody can confirm, but I'll have you know I lost my internet connection for 36 hrs which my whole neighborhood can confirm.

Spoiler:

I deliberately said neighborhood to get people to think I'm in one, but I am actually referring to the area I live in.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

@profii: I won't confirm nor deny; but -just out of curiosity- what role do you have down for me in your notes?

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

I have a few points to address:

1- I am coming clean here: I am caffeinated already
2- Bingle is bloody scum, and you're all stupid not to see it (those who did are not included in the PT with "S.T.U.P.I.D" tattoos on their foregeads
3-

Never

trust FL's reads. Just trust in your ability to read him correct

Reference: My play is better than yours (Actually, that sounds like a good title for a game)

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Fuck, i thought I posted in the wrong game, but JJD did

No I didn't. I included a link to that game, so this post was intended for this thread.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

UNVOTE: UNVOTE:

People quickly hopping between wagons doesn't really impress me, nor does it help me get reads

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

UNVOTE: UNVOTE:

People quickly hopping between wagons doesn't really impress me, nor does it help me get reads

UNVOTE:

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

GDI..

UN-UNBLOODY-VOTE

UNVOTE:

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

@profii: Final answer? Shall I sheep you here or would you be switching votes within the next 50 posts??

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

VOTE:

1- Vote on profii is OMGUS
2- States inntention to sheep Hopkirk (who is voting gobble) then votes pofii
3- Overall reaction sucks
4- The goat made me

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

VOTE:

1- Vote on profii is OMGUS
2- States inntention to sheep Hopkirk (who is voting gobble) then votes pofii
3- Overall reaction sucks
4- The goat made me

I think you forgot something.

Um.. erm.. me.. derp!

VOTE: Alonzo

It's funny though that he responded as if I did vote him!

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

VOTE: judge Joseph dredd

Thank you for showing your interest in me, miss charms

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

i wouldnt mind a dredd vote either. adding to the death list

I am only accepting female voters at this time, thank you very much.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Oh, a wagon on me (of only 2 votes, mind you)

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

May I request that scum hop on my wagon please? It would make it easier for me to sort as opposed to steering away and let the town try to push a mislynch that's not going to happen

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

@NOT MOD: You missed profii's vote on Alonzo in 2925 which I sheeped

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Can you people stop using 'Hop' as a negative term.

Things to do:

- I think of a negative idea
- I try to express my negative idea
- I manage to post my negative idea
- Something goes wrong and my post ends up with only one word of 3 letters: h-o-p

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

VOTE: JJD

Not sure on this but I want to see how JJD v Alonzo plays out.

Thank you! Exactly my thought process as well <3

You wanna pair me with Alonzo for a dance? And there was I thinking you wanted me all for yourself.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

VOTE: Alonzo

JJD, our dance will have to wait.

Nice. Gives me time to practice on my waltz.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

I haven't spotted anyone say they are fluent enough with the rules to 100% confirm that backups and main roles are aligned

It's not

a rule

and it's theoretically possible to be of different alignments. However, it's a balancing concept. Like, it'd be a double penalty if Town lynched its Tracker and -as a result- Scum gained one, or vice-versa. Unless -of course- it's a MB and if one scum side loses it's Tracker the other scum team gains one. Just saying.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Just came in to say I'm NOT gonna read. I have hit the point of no return with how apathetic this game has become. I gained no new info from D2 posts that I had read, and I don;t see much of anything going on. It's like everyone is isolated on a different island and every single one of us believes the world ends where their line of sight does.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Why is this day still ongoing? Why wasn't Alonzo lynched?

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

the gobble kill makes me wonder why him

we have claimed tracker , voyer. a suriving mason. And a few other claims

If scum have a Ninja they don't care about the Tracker/Voyeur, and a Macho Mason is not a priority at this time (it's not even close to LyLo)

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

I'm pretty sure that scum didn't know about the traitor or they surely would have caught Gook's crumb.

If I was scum I simply wouldn't have noticed it, because I'm not American and I had no idea who Benedict Arnold was. (I've just googled it now after you brought it up).

Of course, the chances are really slim the whole scum team contains no American players.. (but I'm just trying to keep myself in the suspects pool so as not to get shot at night).

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Also this makes me cautious of judge here to.

That's the spirit.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

wait. i just realized carcalilly is alive. our wincon is pure

I have no idea what this means.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Looks to me liek your simply not trying to solve teh game. as you already know who

the

scum are

Did you mean "teh"??

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

The last time i ran a game on a different site with the role traitor, i made it clear to scum that there is a traitor but they didn't know who it was. I don't know if it can be the same case in this game however.

A Traitor is considered Normal on mafiascum.net, as long as it:

is Mafia-aligned
knows the identities of all of the Mafia team
identity is not known by the Mafia team, although

they should know a Traitor exists

cannot be recruited to join the rest of the Mafia team, and (unless Bulletproof) is killed if shot
is endgamed if all other Mafia are dead
gives a "guilty" result to Cops, an "innocent" result to Gunsmiths, and a "Traitor" result to Role Cops

From the wiki

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

^^As Hectic should be able to tell you

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

He also says it's confirmed a scum doctor targetted a mason,

I am guessing this was after Garmr claimed but before Carca outed she was Ascetic? Cuz it looks like an attempt to push the Doctor who was expected to claim so as to confirm Garmr.

P.S. How does that make Garmr look? I am not sure myself, as I could see it both ways.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Proffi is as close to confirmed town as anyone outside Carca/hectic are going to get.

Sorry I missed it, but why is Hectic confirmed again?

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

@Hopkirk: And why didn't you bother to do the same to me (as you did to Hectic)?

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

claiming masons?

It sure looks like it, and the start of Hopkirk ISO confirms it.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

2.Sacrificing himself to get rid of what he thought was a doctor and getting profii lynched as well.

THAT is what I was getting at.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Can you copy and past everything gobby said with out links. So we can work with it.

No. That would still be against the rules.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Also judging by the fact you say I'm confirmed town you have a role added on that's somewhat investigative and confirms me as town?

??? Who were you addressing with this?

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

claiming masons?

It sure looks like it, and the start of Hopkirk ISO confirms it.

Can you quit trying to out prs. You saw what happened to the first set of masons. Why are you trying to kill the 'effective masons' now.

-Hec

What do you care? You have me down as scum and are voting me already, so I guess I need to give my team my final notes.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Bah!

Spoiler:

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Huh??? Why on earth would a scum doc target a mason?

gobble was trying to implicate/shade a future Doctor claim is what I'm guessing. I can't completely wrap my head around his plan because I dunno what he was thinking, but it sure looks like he wanted a Doctor claim to be suspect.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

#PAGETOP

YESSSSS

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

@Evee: Titus is manipulative as either alignments. I sometimes can read her when she's hyperposting, but she's not and thus I can't. It's best to have her checked if at all possible.

Carca: I stopped caring long ago. I TR Evee to an extent, and left to my own devices I think Aaron & Kop both deserve to be lynched/shot. Other than those two, I don't have a solve.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Ngl I'm actually surprised scum didn't go for you. gobbled seemed like a weird choice to me with all the claimed PRs in the game. But hey if scum wants to kill their own traitor then that works for me.

Maybe they'd rather keep conftown alive than loose someone who's this fun to play with ;D

VOTE: Judge Joseph Dredd Solid wagon ho!

Spoiler:

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Who knows titus well enough to answer this:

The theory that I could be scum in a hood with the traitor is pretty out there - I am sure most would agree.

So do we think Titus is posting this because she is considering a crazy mechanic or has some paranoia over my very close to conf-town status

Or

Is titus the sort of player to raise a crazy theory to appear paranoid, ie does Titus, as town, usually come over a bit more rational with these sorts of theories?


Personally, I think this is town motivated paranoia but I haven't played much and I dont recall playing with Titus (sorry if we have played before!)

Titus is the

Queen if moonlogic

. I'm a novice compared to her in that field.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

JJD if I gifted you a day vig shot right now who would you shoot and why?

Aaron Frost, maybe?

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

And it's because that's whom I want to flip the most.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

scumlean on jjd from what I understand of what's going on, although I definitely need to do some research to determine if I really feel that way.

Which reminds me.. you mentioned something was funny at the start of D2 and you asked me specifically about it. What was it that you were referring to??

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

scumlean on jjd from what I understand of what's going on, although I definitely need to do some research to determine if I really feel that way.

Which reminds me.. you mentioned something was funny at the start of D2 and you asked me specifically about it. What was it that you were referring to??

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

No.. I need more than that.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

I am a Loyal Complex "messenger" of sorts. I send out "a message", but only a TPR would receive it. When you asked me -specifically- I assumed you received it, which is why I declared you as a TR on D2. I also tried to obfuscate things for scum by claiming I had nothing to do with it, so that if I was shot on N2 they won't figure you were a TPR.

But now I need to know for sure if you did receive it as I am no longer confident you're town anymore, and I may have assumed you got it when you really didn't. Furthermore, you have just softed having checked Billy Pilgrim and confirmed he's a VT, but them I don't recall you having outed your N1 result, and you could be faking the result on Billy because the way he volunteered should have been enough to confirm him as a VT.

So, I would now request that you disclose "the nature of the message" you received if you did receive one on N1.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

I am. I need you to confirm what message you received so I know you're not just saying you did.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Let me try again: Did you receive something or did you not receive anything on N1?

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Failing to answer probably means scum have a Tracker/Watcher who saw me visit you but didn't know what kind of action I performed. I can't think of any other scenario where you would know I visited you but didn't receive the gift.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

What .. was .. it?

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Are you sure? Are you absolutely certain that you received FRUIT (and not -say- chocolate)?

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

It was fruit

VOTE: Cliff Booth

Cliff has just claimed SCUM. I am JUST A VISITOR. I do NOT give out anything.

Now why would Town lie about this? The guy already claims to SR me enough to have put me in hammering range before he backed off, so if he received NOTHING why wouldn't he just say so?

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

What noble reason would that be? You said you received fruit, which would have confirmed both you and I, but then you claim you SR me, so your lie would have resulted in clearing someone you personally were willing to put to L-1. What's so noble about that?

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

You are caught scum regardless. my friend. You can lynch me if you want to, but you still will eat rope next.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

I outplayed you... na na na na (and I don't even know who you really are)

P-edit: @Billy: He is a SCUM PR and he faked a result on you (or maybe he didn't, because theoretically a scum Nea or a scum Vanilla Cop could exist).

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Cliff right now, what were you referring to with respect to me.

Jjd answers first

I ain't answering shit. YOU KNOW I GOT NO MESSAGES FROM YOU ON N1.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Christ anyone know what the Vc is at?

I'm at L-1, I think. Want to hammer and see my true role? Be my guest. Just promise me -if you're town as I think you are- to lynch Cliff tomorrow, and I will have served my duty to this town.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

@Judge - answer him. I have reasons that I want him to clarify what hes talking about.

I already did. Do you ever use preview before posting?

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

I made it obvious that I targeted jjd n1. Made it pretty obvious I was gonna target billy d2. And billy received the fruit.

Let's work this backwards:

1- WHERE does Billy acknowledge receiving anything?
2- How did you make it obvious you targeted me?
3- Assuming you mean the "something funny last night" bit
3-a- If you thought I did receive your proposed fruit, why did you vote me on D3?
3-a- my answer on D2 was "whatever it is it wasn't me", so why did you sleep on it till D3?

GO!

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

AGAIN: CLIFF IS STILL SCUM BY MY FLIP. HE LIED ABOUT RECEIVING FRUIT FROM ME. HE IS A SCUM FRUIT VENDOR OF SOME SORT (probably my EXACT ROLE, which is DISLOYAL SIMPLE FRUIT VENDOR)

That's RIGHT. My action is only successful on Mafia Goons. So, why THE FUCK would he lie? It is because he thought I really gave fruit out to TOWN PRS, and he wanted to be fake confirmed.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

If Cliff did receive fruit, he's confirmed Scum. If he didn't, then he's still scum because he lied about it. Either way, this is caught scum and I have fulfilled my duty (in an even better way, since I caught a scum PR not a Goon)

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Am I?? Wanna lynch conf!Scum Cliff with me? I mean, if he flipped what he says he is then Billy is confirmed and Cliff already found the VT, so not a big deal, but you get ME as confirmed scum next, so that's a win-win for the town (a clear on Billy and a guilty on me by lynching what is now effectively a VT.)

HOWEVER, I know he's flipping RED, and then you get me as confirmed a townie, lynch scum and pseudo confirm Billy still (scum probably aren't stupid enough to fake an inno on their p). That's an even better scenario, don't you think?

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

I will also propose that one of Tchill/Garmr

must be scum

(but if it's Garmr then he's a Watcher not a Voyeur). That is the ONLY way not-Goon Cliff knows I visited him at all. (It also explains why they're both still alive, because shooting the TPR of the two implicates the Scum PT)

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Either way, Billy is confirmed town if Cliff is nea.

Are you reading? He claims to be a Loyal FV. Now watch this:

I’m an Informed Miller, there are no loyal modifiers in this game, and there are 4 scum

RD is probably scum too. He knows Cliff is DISLOYAL.

So that's Cliff (100%) + Tchill/Garmr (95%) + RD (80%)

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

VOTE: Judge Joseph Dredd L-2

One more vote, guys. Come on. You can do it.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

So he wants to mislynch me by saying my role is nullified now that we found "the" VT when no one should know whether we only have one or not. This also doesnt make sense as I never aimed to be simple.

He also knew this was never twilight and only reacted that way and "claimed" to further push the illusion that he is town.

Please tell me you're NOT Bingle. Pretty, please! I BEG OF YOU!

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

JJD... are you SURE nothing weird happened last night... like... really sure

So there is this in day 2. I'm happy Cliff did something to JJD n1, or at least that is the narrative he is going with let's say

Are you daft? Like, I know you;re not, but most of the GOOD players are getting paranoid of me of late.

HE IS SCUM. SCUM HAVE A TRACKER/WATCHER who SAW ME TARGET HIM. (You KNOW I'm a HIGH PRIORITY check for the scum team regardless. Either that or they shoot me). He asks to know why I targeted him. I do not give out a guilty, so they assume I'm not a Cop (and I'm not by name, but effectively by role).

So, he asks WHY I TARGETED HIM. He/they may have assumed I'm a JK/RB/Motion Detector (I highly doubt they thought I was a Doctor because I wouldn't have protected Cliff).

Like, if I'm getting paranoid myself I should be sus of you because you asked me whom I would Vig, which is fishing for the JK/RB target.

But I seriously lost all hope in the majority of players nowadays I am going to play all my games as a 3P. I will keep all results/info to myself and will not even claim when put to L-1 (I will most likely self-hammer). That way my blood pressure won't rise much higher anymore, because I will be just chilling and I won't care about game outcome.

That said, and in a fional attempt to make you see the light.. IF YOU ARE TOWN.. I am a SIMPLE (Reflexively RB'd if my target is a PR) DISLOYAL (reflexively RB's if my target is my own alignment) Fruit Vendor.

In effect, I can only give fruit for MAFIA GOONS.

If Cliff did get Fruit, he is a Mafia Goon (but he will know he is no TPR so would NOT have fallen for my gambit, because he DID receive fruit so will know I was lying). So Cliff DID NOT receive fruit from me.

So, why does he lie about it? Because I said it would go through if he was a TPR, and since he did NOT get fruit he couldn't have known I was lying, so he fell into the trap and falsely claimed fruit. Notice how long it took him to respond with the nature of the gift. He was thinking and consulting with his teammates on whether it was a "message" or a "gift".

Like, let's assume he did send me a message.. why would he wait all this time to out? He didn't ask me about it until I asked him about my fruit basket, and then not until I outed him as Scum. ONLY THEN does he mention a message from him directed at me. WTF are you all smoking?

LYNCH CLIFF (caught Scum) and look for the Scum Tracker/Watcher if you want to win this bloody game.

Note: Why would I be trying to lynch CLIFF of all players if I was Scum, you idiots? We have Titus and we have RD in this game for starters, so if I was to sacrifice myself in exchange of a TPR it would have been one of the two!!!

I also am know to be cautious as scum (everyone who knows scum!me can confirm) so I would have just shot Cliff if that was the bloody case.

OH, WAIT! "Maybe" not a Tracker/Watcher! If Cliff is the EXACT SAME ROLE I am, then he deduced I was a TPR myself, but didn't know what it was, so that's why he wanted me to claim first.

Either way, I'm "burnt out card" now. I won't be catching the Goon since I'm already outed. So if you want to lynch me first that's cool (at least I can logout from JJD and concentrate on A50). If I see myself @L-1 by the time I finish my catch up I will self-hammer. Promise.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

On a serious note, from what I have gathered, I think I essentially have negative town utility

I need to know why cliff said this when it's obvious a loyal fruit is really useful

I second that

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

JJD - without saying who just yet, did you send any fruit n2 ?

I did. OF COURSE I did.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

But that if it's

something that can be expected in a normal

then he did it.

Thank you for reminding me. Arsonist isn't Normal. Fruit Vendor IS Normal.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Cliff responds to the dousing saying something smelled funny, then JJD claimed he had cabbage and beans, which could potentially be a visitor soft.

That ALONE should have told him I "received" nothing, don't you think?? yet he slept on it for a whole cycle (day and night)

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

A disloyal fruit vendor (before he outted his role) definitely isn't useless considering he could have pressured someone to find out if they got it

Show me how. Because, if you were a Goon and you did get Fruit, would you

really

go out an say "Hey, who sen me fruit?" in the open? You know there are Loyal/Disloyal modifiers to be expected, and if it ain't your teammate you would KNOW something fishy is going on.

THAT is why my role was quite useless. It had to be "lied about" to turn it into anything useful, and it had to be lied about in a certain way too. Claiming Disloyal - nobody will ever claim having received fruit from me for starters. Claiming Simple means everyone who doesn't get fruit can claim TPR (they would only be lying about the T).

So, let's switch roles and you can show me how you would have used the Disloyal Simple FV effectivey. With Love.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

JJD - without saying who just yet, did you send any fruit n2 ?

I did. OF COURSE I did.

You could have been x shot but ok

I am "gated" but not X-shot. I am gated in the sense that I can only give fruit to GOONS. And with a role like mine in play you just gotta expect there is but only ONE Goon to be caught. Otherwise, my role would be a bit too strong (yet again it may not be because as soon as I claim a guilty on someone the other hypothetical Goons would not claim having received any).

Take a step back and look at the game fro above.. why are there FVs? Note that a Loyal FV is way too strong an investigative, which is what Cliff claims to be. That would be a FlavourED Cop (Not "flavour" but FlavourED. It's an alignment Cop, with a different name)

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

On a serious note, from what I have gathered, I think I essentially have negative town utility

I need to know why cliff said this when it's obvious a loyal fruit is really useful

Again... Loyal Fruit Vendor is an Alignment Cop. Can somebody explain why Cliff said it was a NEGATIVE utility?

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

On a serious note, from what I have gathered, I think I essentially have negative town utility

I need to know why cliff said this when it's obvious a loyal fruit is really useful

Again... Loyal Fruit Vendor is an Alignment Cop. Can somebody explain why Cliff said it was a NEGATIVE utility?

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

I was wondering if JJD was going to claim that he gave Billy the fruit on N2 and did so because Billy claimed VT, ergo, establishing the existance of a fruit and giving some credence to the simple claim.
However, as Billy rightly points out, JJD totally missed the crumb and it was a homing beacon of a crumb, so that is ruled out.

Why would I be giving fruit to someone who already claimed VT and VOLUNTEERED TO BE CHECKED???????

I am a DIS-FUCKING-LOYAL SIMPLE. DISLOYAL. Billy would NOT have received fruit from me. I neither target people I am not quite sure of in hopes I would catch someone with a dead brain who does claim they received fruit from me, or I still target suspects but trick them into saying they did receive the fruit when they actually didn't, and that's what happened with Cliff.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

My guess is either JJD is going to flip as a reflexive role, which explains Cliff's n1 fruit claim or there is another FV somewhere to dilute the power of Cliff's role.

Pardon my newb-ness but what do you mean by reflexive role?

it's probably a bit of a stretch. Reflexive can be if you are reflexive and i track you, then your reflexive role would kick in by itself

so in the example, JJDs reflex would be in the scenario of receiving a fruit, to give a fruit back... which is weird so probably unlikely.

Reflexive isn't even a Normal Modifier, nor is Mirror a Normal Role.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

@Profii - what the fuck are you waiting on here? I cant see any scum motivation in what you're doing, but its sure as hell weird.

I'm not hammering until we know why cliff didnt pursue a guilty yesterday?

I will respect this, and will delay my self-hammer for .. what? 6 more hours??


Naaaah. As much as I hate to disappoint profii here, a promise is a promise, and when even guys like dave side by scum the town deserves to be punished for it's stupidity.

VOTE: JJD

P.S. Lynch texcat too. She can't get to LyLo. And if I had multiple Vig shots I would have shot every single one who voted me.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Unsubscribing and logging out of JJD.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Not to mention, if JJD is green, and the role he claimed, and he didn't reveal N2 target, then I'm gonna be a bit annoyed.

And what would be the point of revealing my second target exactly? They didn't receive the fruit.. so? They're not a GOON. That's it.

JJD self hammer is bit annoying as i was about to unvote.

Sorry, but I usually think THEN vote, not the other way around.

Btw, did you receive any fruit by any chance? No?? Good. You STILL COULD BE scum. (Just making dave happy)

@Aaron: Talk to the hand. As in; I couldn't care less.