Blaming the vig for bad luck?Iron Man wrote:I seriously hope it wasnt the vig you killed the doctor, If so, that vig needs to be kneecapped. And if you dont know what kneecapping is, it's when you take a lead pipe to someone's kneecaps.
Open 81 - The New C9 - Game Over
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strife220 Mafia Scum
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Isn't discussion of the kills irrelevant regardless of who made them? I don't see how matching flavor with motivation benefits town. 3 kills means we have a vig, 'nuff said.
Vote: IronmanP1 bandwagon! Though not for the post that Armix highlighted, but for
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strife220 Mafia Scum
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The risk is too big for scum fake-claiming masons to be realistic. If there were real masons in the game, the counter-claim 2 scum would be lynched on spot. Until it comes to lylo, there's no reason to even consider the possibility of a fake-claim. The issue should be dropped and Iron-man and Rofl taken as confirmed town until there's a reason to suspect otherwise.Limited access, Aug 29 - Sept 3-
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strife220 Mafia Scum
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Elaborate on this please. How did Forbiddan's post make you more inclined to lynch armix or blakadder?roflcopter wrote:forbiddanlight wrote:FoS STrangerCoug. I rather dislike how reluctant you were to get off the mason claimants, and then still trying to make it look like they could be scum. It's been beaten to death, but let's reiterate again. D1 mason claims would be pretty stupid for scum to do. I'm not ready to vote you yet, but should a wagon appear on you, I will sure as hell join it.fos: forbiddanlight
and this makes me less happy with any strangercoug votes.
now i'm pretty sure we should be lynching armlx or blakadder.Limited access, Aug 29 - Sept 3-
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strife220 Mafia Scum
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strife220 Mafia Scum
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So you're less inclined to lynch SCoug because of Forbidden's scummy post? Why not vote forbidden for it? (Sorry, not an attack, I just thought the thought-process didn't make a lot of sense).
I agree that Forbidden's post was very scummy. My vote isn't out right now so that's a good place for it to sit.Vote: Forbidden. I still have to re-read p1-3 more closely before I confirm vote, though.Limited access, Aug 29 - Sept 3-
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strife220 Mafia Scum
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@Lowell: Is your theory on masons outing themselves D1 new to you? Do you have meta of you saying the same thing in another open game?
This seems like a pretty BS reason to vote and following right into what Rofl was implying: "gee, gotta lynch strife or armix, lets pick one!" I would say scum would appreciate this opportunity and act quite like Vamp did.Vamparific wrote:i find armlx scummier for trying to take control of the game
vote:armlx
I'll say that this post by Vamp looks enough like opportunistic scum behaviour to warrantUnvote, Vote: Vamparific. Forbidden's post Was scummy so I have no problem with her wagon. Just think Vamp is better.Limited access, Aug 29 - Sept 3-
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strife220 Mafia Scum
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My god this game is moving fast. That's over 50 posts in the last 30 or so hours, I believe.
I don't like this post
Sounds a bit like a scum lash-outGreasy Spot wrote:
What authority in this game do you have to demand me to answer a question. Unless your too busy to read the thread and note that both Korts and myself have current arguments against Armix, you wouldn't be asking this stupidly obvious question.iamausername wrote:Unvote, Vote: Greasy Spot, by the way, which I should have done when I first noted that he failed to answer my question.
This I'm not happy with either, though not sure if it's a scum-tell or a "GS has a bad attitude" tell.Greasy Spot wrote:
Idiot, do you think people can never change there minds about something. Your clueless if you think that.iamausername wrote:I'm not the one who apparently changed my answer after 25 posts.
vote: iamausernamefor being too stupid to be a townie.
However, on the whole, I find the battle between IAU and GS to be fairly irrelevant. I don't see worthwhile tells coming out of this conversation anytime soon.
I can understand town-vibes from Korts, but I don't get why you think forbidden is likely town. He's my #2 suspect right now. Please elaborateLowell wrote:Back to the game. I'm getting very strong town-vibes from korts and forbiddan, though for different reasons. I'd like to hear more about the case against armlx, if there is one, and wonder why the case against strangercoug fell apart so quickly. I'm not ready to abandon hope...
More pro-town vibes. That makes 4 people you think are town just on D1. Forbidden got it right: way too many pro-town vibes and not enough scum-vibes. Marking this a suspicious, since scum have a much stronger motivation to declare who they think is town then pro-town players do. Really, there's almost no benefit for stating who you think is town on D1 - that's pretty much the opposite of scumhunting.Lowell wrote:I'm getting pro-town vibes from both IAU and GS. Which makes this debate all the more annoying.
Still comfortable with my vote on Vampire. Interested in hearing more from Lowell.Limited access, Aug 29 - Sept 3-
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strife220 Mafia Scum
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@Korts: Sorry for the chainsaw, but the first 4 (out of 5) points in your 'case' against Armix are really really poor. This doesn't look like you're voting for pressure, it looks like a serious 'lets lynch him' vote.
I'll also put in my desire to see Vamp vig'd.Unvote
Going to do a closer reread of Korts. My initial vibe was that he was pro-town but the attack on Armix is too bad for me to ignore.Limited access, Aug 29 - Sept 3-
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strife220 Mafia Scum
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Finally plowed through FL's wall-o-text. I admit I didn't read the play-by-play too closely. The summary post was good though.
I thought this was interesting:
Emphasis by me. Why would you say "when" instead of "if" FL?FL directed towards Korts wrote:The way I see it,whenyou flip scum, that will be WIFOM'd and possibly confuse the issue enough to save Coug
Reread on Korts:
I agree with his attack on Rofl for the "who is scummier, Armix or Strife" comment. This is probably where my initial pro-town vibe came from.
*Note: Does somebody who has meta on Korts know if he often fills up the thread with noise? 3 posts about getting a cookie, 1 talking about schoolgirls, and 1 post about his indie-rock-band-that-wasn't.*
I don't like how Korts keeps arguing over Armix saying 'Rofl was wagoned to claim.' The degree to which Lowell's "masons should claim" comment influenced Rofl relative to the growing wagon is entirely debatable. This semantics debate is just distracting noise, and makes the case against Armix seem contrived.
This post is, ironically, hypocritical:
Reasons Reasons Reasons... You should be justifying your unvote when it is unintuitive. The case against Forbiddenlight was stronger than this one-post case against Sun Tzu. Did FL do something to drop on your scumdar? Did this one post by Sun Tzu really make you think he was scum enough to drop said case and Vote?Korts wrote:
Guys, no. Reasons, reasons, reasons. Don't be a hypocrite. You're wagoning Vamp for wagoning forbiddan for wanting to wagon StrangerCoug.Sun Tzu wrote:vote Vamparific
The case against forbiddanlight looks good too.Make a case.
unvote, vote: Sun Tzu
This post:
is BS. If you're going to make such a strong (anti-town) statement, you should probably make sure your accusation is right.Korts wrote:armlx wrote:And with that, you've just given away that you're not the vig. Good job.
There's also a hint of scum-slip there. It seems like you know Armix is pro-town, and thus are pointing out that 'scum' (i.e. not-armix) learn about Armix's role.
I'm not sure on how I feel about this, so I'd like some help interpreting if this is null or not. If you thought a player revealed a role that he Wasn't (helping scum by process of elimination), would you say something like this if you were unsure of said players' alignment? Or would you say something more alignment-neutral?
I think I would take the opposite road and interpret it as scummy, if it was so blatant.
I think the post is likely a scum-tell, but am not confident on this one.
Moving on to stuff that I have stronger opinions on:
The Armix case:
Really sucks. He makes 5 points, the first 4 of which are null-tells, the last of which (setting up d2 lynch) I think is overblown. Could I see the case of Armix lining up lynched highlighted? Quotes or referencing which posts would be helpful.Limited access, Aug 29 - Sept 3-
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strife220 Mafia Scum
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EBWOP:
Vote: Korts
His first few posts gave me a pro-town vibe, and as such, his subsequent posts initially didn't make me think he was likely scum. More recently, his posts seems filled with noise, arguments against null-tells, and overall lacking clear logic and reasoning.
Korts: In your defense could you please make it VERY clear where Armix lined up lynches, and highlight how he drew a connection between you and SC but ignored the supposedly identical connection between you and FL. Also explain why you consider this scummy, and what conclusions you are drawing from it. I just plain don't understand the argument here.Limited access, Aug 29 - Sept 3-
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strife220 Mafia Scum
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This game moves entirely too fast. Players are posting that I never even knew were in this game.
This post is scummy because:iamausername wrote:Greasy Spot would make an excellent vig kill.
a) Trying to control the Vig's kill-choice is anti-town
b) Greasy Spot actually provided a bit of a case against AIUN
c) Like 4 people have already said Vamp would be an excellent vig
d) You suggesting otherwise is defending Vamp (see b)
Hrm... that's all to comment on tonight. Vote on Korts stands.Limited access, Aug 29 - Sept 3-
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strife220 Mafia Scum
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Ugh... should be: d) You suggesting otherwise is defending Vamp (seec)
I point c) out as a scum-tell mainly because if you want to think of Vig's kills as an extra lynch, then IAUN is trying to undermine the majority, which is scummy. It's also closely related to d - I suppose those two points could be considered one.
I didn't shout at the people who directed towards Vamp mostly because I agreed with it.
However, IAUN's vig-direct is much scummier than the previous. He has 4 (or 3, if c/d are the same) strikes against him, while those directing towards Vamp are only guilty of a).
Comparing IAUN's vig-direct towards GS to everyone elses vig direct towards Vamp is apples to oranges. I'll elaborate more long-windedly if people still don't see it.Limited access, Aug 29 - Sept 3-
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strife220 Mafia Scum
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The excessive talk about the vig is unnecessary. IAUN made a comment I thought was scummy, I pointed out why I thought it was scummy, he pointed out why he disagreed with my point. Everyone can decide if they liked his defense, but there's no reason to get into a page long debate meant for the 'mafia discussion' forum. I think noisey posts are becoming a new pet peeve of mine.
Nothing else to comment on today. Vote on Korts still standsLimited access, Aug 29 - Sept 3-
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strife220 Mafia Scum
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Disagreeing with the majority is fine, but trying to over-ride the majority is not. It looks like a defense to me when 5 players say "Vamp is definitely the best vig target" and IAUN says "GS is a very good vig target" afterwards. It's defending Vamp by trying to convince the vig to follow his suggestion over the majority's.The Fonz wrote:362 is a VERY good point. Explanation, please, strife.
364: You really think it's scummy to disagree with the majority? Besides, vig-directing is not really scummy at all, as opposed to doc directing.
And I do think that directing the vig is bad. The vig knows that he is town, and thus any decision he makes should be pro-town. Unless an exceptional case can be made that the vig might not have seen himself, or a town majority advices it (in which case the vig doesn't have to worry if he's being mislead by scum), the vig should be plenty capable on his own. If he does listen to others, he's at risk of being convinced by scum to kill the player of his choice, which leaves said scum's hands blood-free of that townies death.
So, why is a single person directing the vig kill (when a 'majority' has essentially been decided) pro-town?
On a different note,
I don't like this kind of attack. Do you think FL typing out a summary before her suspicions was scummy? Anti-town? She did give her top suspects and nailed down an opinion on just about every player. I find it to be more than 'reaching' to attack her for that.The Fonz wrote:FL 303-304: And I also hate posts like this. TL;DR. Blinding us with text, a la vollkan. FL, we don't need a summation of everything everyone's done in the game. Give us your top couple of suspects, and why. Also, if necessary, point out a popular wagon you disagree with and why.Limited access, Aug 29 - Sept 3-
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strife220 Mafia Scum
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I felt that the argument is coming down to a matter of opinion. I call these 'noise' arguments because both scum and town are just going to state their own opinion over and over again, giving off no scum-tells and thus harming the Sig:Noise ratio of the game. The vig has heard the arguments and will ultimately make his own choice about who he is going to kill - excessive bickering isn't going to change his mind. Whether the directors/anti-directors have been trying to harm town is made as clear as it's going to be after their first post once their opinions are made clear.silence wrote:
I don't understand this (this is not the only post that includes this kind of complaints). The discussion about whether it is protown affectsstrife220 wrote:Whether or not it's pro-town to direct the vig is becoming one of those 'my god take it to MD' topics.
- whether the vig will be directed in this game
- whether the directers/anti-directers have been trying to harm the town
If discussion about how this game should be played and has so far been played is forbidden, what IS ok to be posted? Claims, votes, that's it?
Other 'noise' arguments (arguments that become distracting after the first few posts) include whether or not lynching lurkers is pro-town, whether or not policy lynches are acceptable, when no-lynching is a good move, whether or not lynch-all-liars is a good philosophy, and (new to the list) whether or not arguments such as those previously mentioned should be debated in-thread. Once the topic turns to restating opinions, conversation should be cut off and started in the MD forums after the game.
in summary: discussion about directing the vig is important for the first few comments, but after it starts taking up pages of posts, it becomes unhelpful and distracting.Limited access, Aug 29 - Sept 3-
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strife220 Mafia Scum
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Actually, after a quick reread:
If we don't lynch Korts, can we lynch Lowell? He's made about a post every page; most every post is just 1 or 2 sentences. He pushed outing the masons with no meta proving that he actually believes it's a good move (subjective point, I know, but I think it's anti town). He's accused like 6 people of being pro-town. He made a vote on Sun Tzu without giving a reason, later stating he was 'just trying to get a wagon going for pressure,' apparently on a completely random player. Finally he's complaining about the vig, essentially discouraging him from using his kills.
Unvote, Vote: Lowellin hopes that people will join in. It takes about 2 minutes to reread all of his posts, and I think when read in sequence it becomes apparent that he's trying to seem pro-town without actually doing anything useful.
Would still like to see Korts lynched but that wagon seems to be stalled.Limited access, Aug 29 - Sept 3-
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strife220 Mafia Scum
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1) What benefit does the town get from learning who you think is town? We verbally accuse people of being scum in hopes of them proving us right. Unless a person is in danger of being lynched, the pro-town thing to do is to keep town tells to yourselfLowell wrote:
This is horrible.strife220 wrote:Actually, after a quick reread:
If we don't lynch Korts, can we lynch Lowell? He's made about a post every page; most every post is just 1 or 2 sentences. He pushed outing the masons with no meta proving that he actually believes it's a good move (subjective point, I know, but I think it's anti town). He's accused like 6 people of being pro-town. He made a vote on Sun Tzu without giving a reason, later stating he was 'just trying to get a wagon going for pressure,' apparently on a completely random player. Finally he's complaining about the vig, essentially discouraging him from using his kills.
Unvote, Vote: Lowellin hopes that people will join in. It takes about 2 minutes to reread all of his posts, and I think when read in sequence it becomes apparent that he's trying to seem pro-town without actually doing anything useful.
Would still like to see Korts lynched but that wagon seems to be stalled.
1) "Accusing" people of being town is every bit as useful (in terms of me getting my opinions out there) as is hopping my vote around or peppering the field with FOSs. I tend to find scum through process of elimination.
2) I'm still right about the mason thing, and there is precedent for it. Quit your whining.
3) The vote on Sun Tzu wasn't random. Suffice to say it's a meta thing, and refers to another game. Also, it's a single vote. Who cares?
4) The fact that my posts don't take long to read is GOOD, not bad. If only everyone could express themselves so succinctly.
2) Mafia get more information for their choices, and masons likely won't make it to end-game - the only point when they're particularly useful. Town gain nothing but a bit of time because they don't have to attack the masons. You're miles from being right.
3) A single vote is the most powerful thing an individual has in the game. Moreover, you said that single vote was with hopes of starting a pressure-wagon. What more could you have done?
4) Short is fine. Short and low on content is subtle lurking - you've done zero scum hunting.
This is all 'standard lowell behaviour' ???
Confused... why is encouraging bandwagoning bad? And how is Lowell the easiest lynch possible? He was one of 8 people that had votes on them at the time. Why not a HOS to Korts for saying:StrangerCoug wrote:I don't like Lowell's posts, which is why I confirm voted him, but I don't like this post of yours either. You're spoiling an otherwise good attack on Lowell by encouraging bandwagoning and going for the easiest lynch possible.
Major HoS: strife220
since it's also explicitly encouraging bandwagoning?Korts wrote:Actually, if some people would be willing to vote armlx, that'd be all kinds of great.
This looks like a logical fallacy but I have no clue what the name is. Not quite a strawman - it's just an impossible to answer question. He said Korts was a good lynch, and you want him to essentially 'prove' that he's a better lynch than Tin and Blak Adder? If you think Tin or Blak Adder is a better lynch, it's your job to provide a superior case.forbiddanlight wrote:Why is Korts better than Tin Vision or Blak Adder? ... So, tell me why Tin Vision or Blak Adder aren't good lynches? Or someone else of your choosing?
I don't think my reason for Voting Korts had anything to do with a connection to SC. Definitely doesn't weaken it for meiamausername wrote:The case on Korts is certainly not entirely based on an SC connection, since it came up before there was any major suspicion of SC, although SC being vig weakens it some.
You just finished xyyzy's game with GS in it. Go re-read his... 2? posts in that game. GS clearly has no problem with joking about bombs. Armix is right with his meta.StrangerCoug wrote:My rationale... is that you don't joke about bombs at an airport unless you want to be thrown in prison,
LOL@Muerrto for having to read his predecessor's posts.
I am NOT happy with Muerrto encouraging a vig on IM. Firstly, it'd be terrible for scum to claim masons D1 in a large game with a SK. They'd never make it to endgame. Secondly - they won't both make it to end game, town or scum. Masons are too powerful end-game for scum (mafia or SK) to leave them alive. There's certainly no rush to 'test' their masonry.
What? This is IAUN responding to my saying his direct on the vig was scummy. I wasn't voting him, it wasn't a case, I certainly wasn't voting him because he's 'too stupid to be a townie' (since I wasn't voting him at all). And there is no wagon. So you seem to have completely misread this, but came to a nice solid conclusion ('he's you're hero') anyway? This to me is scummy - like you're not actually reading what's being said and just fitting your statements together so that they'll appear concrete. Please elaborate on how you made your conclusions and what you mis-read.Muerrto wrote:
He's my new hero. The case at this point is extremely weak and being run by the person who voted him because he's 'too stupid to be a townie' which I called him out for earlier in my post. This wagon is bad.iamausername wrote:Point b) is total crap, since Greasy Spot has never presented any case against me besides "too stupid to be a townie", which is in fact not a case at all.
Point c/d) is also crap, because as I said, I'm in favour of a Vamp vig as well.
Point a) is also wrong, for the record.
Also, "trying to undermine the majority" is not a scum tell. Anything else?Limited access, Aug 29 - Sept 3-
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The chance of hitting actual scum or actual SK?Muerrto wrote: Where's the disadvantage to testing them now?
If they're masons, the SK won't be in a rush to kill them, but if he wants to stand any chance of winning, he'll have to kill them before lylo.
Actually, I don't understand why we're even entertaining the chance of them being scum. Like IAUN said above, scum risking outing half their team, hoping that don't get SK'd or counter-claimed is too ridiculous to consider.Limited access, Aug 29 - Sept 3-
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You quoted a post where IAUN was responding directly to me about a post that I made. How does that have anything to do with GS and nothing to do with me?Muerrto wrote:No. The train is being engineered by GS, despite whatever you said about IAUN. GS's reasoning was 'he's too stupid to be a townie' which I SPECIFICALLY mentioned in my post. Has nothing to do with you.Limited access, Aug 29 - Sept 3-
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I made like 4 points that I didn't like against Lowell. His mason request was mentioned because it's, as far as I'm concerned, indisputably anti-town (unlike directing a vig, which is at least arguable). Same thing with Muerrto's 'lets vig a mason.' It's so illogical, that he very well could have made it just so he could say:silence wrote:Another suspect is strife220. Trying to ban discussion about strategic issues as a 'matter of opinion' and then attacking Lowell based on the mason plan suggestion.
I think could be a scum-tell or a null-tell to argue something that ridiculous, definitely not a town-tell. Both Lowell's and Muerrto's points. Regardless, it's anti-town.Muerrto wrote:Scum Muerrto: Wait, people don't like the idea of testing the mason's? Ok, I'll back down and fit in and listen to the town.
Town Muerrto: You're all wrong, period. If they live till LYLO and cause us a loss it's on all of your heads and I'll be sure to say I told you so.Limited access, Aug 29 - Sept 3-
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strife220 Mafia Scum
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Suppose the BlakAdder wagon is fine too. Just re-read him, and found this:
ThisBlakAdder wrote:EBWOP: Finally breached the massive wall of text. Great job there, Forbiddan. This just made scumhunting loads easier.
In regards to the content itself, you did a good job of keeping neutral, not painting anyone in a good or negative light.
I'll have finished going over my own notes in a minute, and I'll have a more game-related post.
and thisBlakAdder wrote:Okay, I've been away for a while, but I should have no problems getting ahold of a computer now. I've reread and I'm finding StrangerCoug somewhat suspicious.
Where have you been for the last ten pages or so? He's been OMGUSing Username repeatedly without good reason.StrangerCoug wrote:
Explain, even if you just spit out post numbers.Lowell wrote:I'llFOS GSfor tunnel vision.
Wtf. That's all I have to say.StrangerCoug wrote:HoS: Lowellfor calling a powerful pro-town power role useless.
That, and all the bandwagoning and votehopping, not getting off of rofl's back even after he claimed mason, and everything else that's been brought up already.
Vote: StrangerCougBlakAdder wrote:
Something tells me this wasn't serious. Why would the Godfather out himself? If you think he was serious, Coug, just vig him tonight, and we can try to hit a goon today.StrangerCoug wrote:Why are we still debating on who we should lynch? Has anybody other than me read #507?
Also, while I'm at it,vote: Lowellfor:
A. Demanding that the Masons claim
2. Lots of meaningless posts
D. Randomly trying to force a bandwagon on Sun Tzu
There are probably other reasons, but I'm kinda busy right now, and I'll list them later if I get the chance.
To all be pretty scummy. The "wow good job" is so far overdone, and the votes on SC and Lowell both seem like forced cases. BlakAdder, Korts, and Lowell are all cool lynches by me. Joining the only bandwagon that has any steam:
Unvote, Vote: BlakAdderLimited access, Aug 29 - Sept 3-
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Haven't posted here in a few days. Not a lot has happened, BlakAdder is still a good lynch. Deadline's in a week and everybody should be looking more seriously at the vote count and contributing to the upcoming lynch. Right now BlakAdder and GreasySpot are the top two, with several people at 1 vote each.Limited access, Aug 29 - Sept 3-
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strife220 Mafia Scum
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26th is 3 days before deadline (and 3 days from today). That's plenty of time for him to claim and for us to switch lynches. I'm pretty bad at reading rules - does anyone know what happens if a majority isn't reached by deadline?
If BlakAdder claims a power-role, Greasy-spot has the next most votes. Unfortunately we won't be able to get a claim out of him either. I still like Korts for a lynch.Limited access, Aug 29 - Sept 3-
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strife220 Mafia Scum
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ting =) wrote: 428: Strife is very happy with his Korts vote. You seem really convinced of his scuminess, since you've posted, 'happy with korts vote' quite a bit already. Could you point me to the post where you made a case on him? I haven't seen anything that would make me as confident in a Korts vote as you are.
Check my 11th to 15th post. Biggest point was how terrible his case against Armix.
I often add that I'm happy with a particular vote to emphasize that my vote isn't random, isn't just for pressure, and/or isn't just for lack of a good place to have the vote. Perhaps a bit redundant in a game with frequent vote counts, but it's a sort-of habit.Limited access, Aug 29 - Sept 3-
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strife220 Mafia Scum
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iamausername wrote:
SC not being killed by the real vig tonight would prove that he's a vig, however.Muerrto wrote:Also, SC killing someone only proves he's either an SK OR a Vig, not a Vig.
SC surviving the night proves that either he's the vig, or we don't have a vig.Rogueben wrote: 0-1 VigilanteVigilante PM wrote:You are a vigilante. Each night you may send me a PM to attempt to kill one other player.
You win when all factions opposing the town have been eliminated.Limited access, Aug 29 - Sept 3-
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strife220 Mafia Scum
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Vote: Muerrto
D1 when everyone was pushing the Vamp vig, IAUN pulled the "GS would also make a good vig..."
Indirect way of trying to save Vamp from a vig-kill when he was a nearly unanimous decision for viging. Subtle scum-buddy tactic. See page 14 and 15.iamausername wrote:Greasy Spot would make an excellent vig kill.Limited access, Aug 29 - Sept 3-
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Vamp was originally to be lynched. About 5 people stated explicitly that Vamp was a good vig target, and nobody disagreed, then everyone went to voting elsewhere under the assumption that Vamp would be handled outside of votes.Muerrto wrote:Also, can we see the unanimous decision that I was a good vig target?
You should know better than to make useless comments like this.Muerrto wrote:SC, thank you not killing me with your vig action, but now you guys wanna waste a lynch on me?
Scum wouldn't be so direct to explicitly try and protect their buddy - it'd bring them too much heat when the other flips scum. What scum would do is try to undermine the town's lynch choice by presenting alternatives, despite Vamp already being an ideal and pre-determined vig target. Attacking a third party when your scum-buddy is under heavy suspicion is a nice, solid scumtell.Muerrto wrote:Where's the case? IAUN didn't say 'don't vig Vamp' he said 'someone else is also good' and you all assume instead of redirecting to a target he'd rather have killed he was protecting me?Limited access, Aug 29 - Sept 3-
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That's an irrelevant question if I've ever heard one. By replacing into the game you take on all the actions of your predecessor. You can't be expected to explain his behaviour, but we can't be expected to ignore it.Muerrto wrote:So did anyone have a case onmeand not Vamp?
Yes, we know Roflcopter is suffering from 'god-like due to immunity' syndrome. Just ignore him like everyone else.
#805 is way over the top, and Muerrto is behaving irrationally. Whether it's a scum-tell in and of itself is up to interpretation, but I certainly don't think it's a town tell.Limited access, Aug 29 - Sept 3-
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I don't think GS and IAUN's intereactions were likely distancing/bussing, and I don't really understand the case against him, unless we're talking about his D1 actions in isolation. Muerrto's implying that Fonz hasn't presented a case against GS/Ting is an understatement. From what I can tell, Fonz's case is "GS was distancing IAUN," which is not a case whatsoever. Calling something Distancing is belittling a town-tell, but is hardly ever a reliable scum tell - GS/IAUN interaction was no exception. It's certainly strange that Fonz is pushing this so strongly, but I don't mark him as highly likely scum for it. While Rofl is correct that scum hate confirmed-towns, it's very risky business to stick your neck out to do this instead of just NKing the obv-townie.
Yea I'm actually reading your posts now. Welcome to the game.roflcopter wrote:i seriously hope strife and all the other people saying i should just be ignored aren't ignoring the stuff i've said today...Limited access, Aug 29 - Sept 3-
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Anything in particular that makes you think that, Rofl? I don't see anything particularly obvious that connects them. Or is it just that you think they're both independently scummy?
I'm still happy with my vote where it is, but I just picked through the 'still alive' list and noticed there's quite a bit of lurking going on. Silence, Iron Man (I know, claimed mason), and Orange Penguin are all very lacking on any contribution to the game thus far. Orange Penguin in particular has been truly lurking, as he's posting frequently in other games he's playing.Limited access, Aug 29 - Sept 3-
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You made a post that referenced a conversation from half a week ago like it just happened. If you want to propose a theory, it shouldn't require people to re-read the past 100 posts to see what you're referencing.roflcopter wrote:see the post directly prior to mine, then imagine me reading it and going *headdesk* several times before writing that post.Limited access, Aug 29 - Sept 3-
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strife220 Mafia Scum
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We know you can't defend Vamp.
You know we can't be expected to ignore Vamp's actions.
I understand Armix's attack on how calling your own death a mislynch is an appeal to emotion, but I also think it's not a very good attack because I say the same thing as town and scum (saying my own lynch is a mislynch).Limited access, Aug 29 - Sept 3-
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Nah that's fine we don't want to hear about suspects and opinions. Continue to lurk. [/sarcasm]Iron Man wrote:To tell the truth, I'm leaning more towards Muerrto's side of the case right now. Granted, he isnt the most pro-town player, but I could probably cite a few players that are more scummy than him.
Care to tell us WHO those players are ? Maybe why as well?Limited access, Aug 29 - Sept 3-
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EBWOP:
Quick re-read of Muerrto - his first few posts with regards to IAUN are certainly interesting.
Here's something for you to defend against. Explain why the points I raised against IAUN's "Hey lets vig GS" are so poor. IAUN is your hero because a short post was made against him and his defense was 'those points are crap' ??Muerrto wrote:
He's my new hero. The case at this point is extremely weak and being run by the person who voted him because he's 'too stupid to be a townie' which I called him out for earlier in my post. This wagon is bad.iamausername wrote:Point b) is total crap, since Greasy Spot has never presented any case against me besides "too stupid to be a townie", which is in fact not a case at all.
Point c/d) is also crap, because as I said, I'm in favour of a Vamp vig as well.
Point a) is also wrong, for the record.
Also, "trying to undermine the majority" is not a scum tell. Anything else?Limited access, Aug 29 - Sept 3-
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Muerrto seemed to miss my argument completely (except for possibly B), so I'll try this:
Please explain to me why my four points are wrong (or three, if you wanna skip b).strife220 wrote:
This post is scummy because:iamausername wrote:Greasy Spot would make an excellent vig kill.
a) Trying to control the Vig's kill-choice is anti-town
b) Greasy Spot actually provided a bit of a case against AIUN
c) Like 4 people have already said Vamp would be an excellent vig
d) You suggesting otherwise is defending Vamp (see b)
Firstly though, IAUN never suggested Vamp would be a good vig. He was lying and you're lying by saying otherwise. If I'm wrong, please find where he says so.Limited access, Aug 29 - Sept 3-
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He didn't make that statement until after I attacked him for trying to re-direct the vig.Muerrto wrote:iamausername wrote:Wait, so it's OK for people to direct the vig to kill Vamp, but not Greasy Spot?
By the way, I'm absolutely in favour of a Vamp vidging too, and have never said otherwise.
He was completely silent about the Vamp vig-kill, then he suggested a GS vig, then he got called on trying to re-direct the town-decided vamp vig. THEN he says he's fine with Vamp too. What scum say after they get called on a scummy action doesn't count towards a defense.
That doesn't make it pro-town.Muerrto wrote:A) Name someone who hasn't tried to direct the vig kill this game please.
Way to be misleading. IAUN and GS were arguing for the previous 10 posts. You quoted his vote, but before that (post 183, 189), he actually made some sort of contribution to the game (unlike vamp):Muerrto wrote:B) Please state GS's case on IAUN. His case was(and I QUOTE again)
Greasy Spot wrote:vote: iamausername for being too stupid to be a townie.
He disagreed with the 'who's scummier, Armix or Strife' page 1 thing Rofl tried to pull, IAUN disagreed with it. His argument was that IAUN was pushing crap logic in his attacks, even if it wasn't put all that elegantly.Greasy Spot wrote:
I was actually going to answer your question after the second time you asked it. That was until I got to the post where you voted for me because I didn't answer your question. It doesn't set well with me when people try to enforce their ways on me. If I wanted to comment on the scumminess of strife and/or armix I would. I don't need you to ask me silly questions about which one I find scummier. If you care to elaborate on your feelings for people and request others share as well then very well, but don't demand an answer and then vote someone because they don't give you an answer. That is stupid.iamausername wrote:Um, my authority as a scumhunter. If you're town, why would you have a reason to not answer my question?
At the time I made that statement (which was in the beginning of the game) I didn't find either one of them scummy enough to vote. The people who were pushing their lynches were scummier. You bring it up now knowing full well that much more scum hunting has been going on, so that statement is not even relevant now.iamausername wrote:So, why say:
when you obviouslyGreasy Spot wrote:You ask us which we think is scummiest yet there is no case against Strife so how could I possibly decide right now?haddecided who you thought was scummier?
Greasy contributed a little and was actually sort of playing the game.
Nice family straw men you got there.Muerrto wrote:C) So multiple people saying Vamp would be a good vig makes me a good lynch? First, I'm not Vamp, I'm just his role. Second, lynching is WAAAAY different from vigging. Third, town can't pick the wrong kill? Assuming I'm scum because some people want me dead? You gotta be kidding me.
Multiple people saying Vamp is a good vig makes it a town decision, which makes vig-directing much more pro-town. Again, this is the 'undermining the majority' thing. At the time I said it, it wasn't known IAUN was scum, so it was a much weaker point. Now it's much stronger because we know he's scum, and that his motivations obviously weren't in the town's best interests. It's possible he was acting townie and thought he would seem pro-town with suggesting the GS vig. It's possible he was acting scummy and trying to get a bigger threat NK'd (and if that's your argument, you're completely backtracking and saying that his redirection WAS scummy). It's also possible that he was scum trying to protect a buddy, which is a pretty damned good point.
Indirect defense - see above. Town says one thing, scum hints at another.Muerrto wrote:D) Him suggesting vigging the guy hounding him and trying to get him lynched instead of the lurker is defending the lurker? Or is it attacking the guy TRYING TO GET HIM LYNCHED? I mean, wow, how weak a case can you get.
Nobody was following GS's reasoning, so IAUN was under no real threat from him.
I do admit that it seems unlike you to outwardly priase a scumbuddy, but I'm unconvinced that you felt IAUN's defense was worth the praise you gave it. Your reasoning is cloudy and I'm having a hard time believing you really thought what IAUN did was pro-town.Limited access, Aug 29 - Sept 3-
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You must not replace into games often. D1 actions are the place to go to when players flip scum later. Sorry you can't defend yourself more. If you're town, then contribute as best you can by trying to find scum. You think Armix is scum - who else is a good candidate?Muerrto wrote:Do you even have a case on me or was I screwed before I even read the thread?Limited access, Aug 29 - Sept 3-
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EBWOP:
Muerrto - (4) {strife220, StrangerCoug, forbiddanlight, orangepenguin}
Korts - (1) {armix}
The Fonz - (1) {roflcopter}
Not Voting: {Korts, Muerrto, Iron Man, ting =), silence, The Fonz, Battle Mage}.
That was the last vote count, like 4 pages ago. Only 3 votes I noticed since then; Armix and Muerrto voting each other, and Korts's vote on Muerrto. So yea, L-1Limited access, Aug 29 - Sept 3-
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