Open 53: Near-Vanilla - Game over!

[Romanus]

Replacing in. Will get caught up today and post something of significance before the close of day.

PS I am not scum.

[Romanus]

Sorry guys, real life jumped up and got me. I'm still reading and will post my opinions soon.

[Romanus]

Ok, I just finished reading Day one, and only day one. Taking into consideration that I know the alignment of some of the folks, and reading it with that in mind, my top two suspects are

(drumroll please)

Korlash
Near

Just so you know what my thoughts are at the current moment.

After I completely finish reading, I will put together some sort of argument of what my points are against who I finally decide is scum.

cheers

[Romanus]

The absolute worse case scenario is that the Doc gets hit tonight and we lose all sorts of info.

I am for the doc outing himself and who he protected.

The Doc's info does more than just give us a 1 in 4 or 1 in 3 shot. This is not random. We get INFORMATION. Knowing alignment is invaluable and far outweighs any sort of blindly throwing a dart at a board with the odds being in our favor.

What strikes me as odd is that no one mentioned the lack of NK till now.

Of course, I also leave the decision where it belongs, with the doc. It is his call and should not be forced.

Also, I have all sorts of theories and whatnot, but I am going to keep them to myself until this issue is resolved. There is way too much at stake for me to reveal too much.

My previous suspicions stand:

Near
Korlash

Really torn between the two.

[Romanus]

Well, it is crap like telling everyone about the breadcrumbs, that could or could not be that put scum on the scent and allow the scum to come up with ways around it.

Again, I leave it to the doc.

I'm going to

vote: Near

I have a slightly more scummy feeling from Near over Korlash. I will say that it is heavily based on Day one activity which anyone can see, but I also know few will read. I do not have specific references, that will require a second reread, which will take till at least tomorrow. It is based on the interaction between the two known scum and Korlash and Near.

[Romanus]

I don't want to say anymore about the doc thing. Discussion of the scumminess of Korlash and Near are perfectly fine.

[Romanus]

Yes, I think it was a bus.

As for me not wanting to reveal too much, that was really for myself. I didn't want to put too much out there. So, yes, I changed my mind a bit. Forgive me, I just read through 36 pages and wanted to get my own mind straight.

[Romanus]

Killa seven.

Could you spell out, or just reference me to your case against Eldritch Lord.

I'm going to do some day one reading on him and see what I can see.

[Romanus]

No, I think I would like to go through the hassle of actually seeing if he is scum or not.

Scum looking for an easy lynch this late in the game, or just a lazy townie?

[Romanus]

I really don't see Eldritch Lord as scum. I have read his posts in isolation and just don't see it.

I still favor a Korlash lynch

[Romanus]

I'm in the midst of gathering my thoughts on Korlash. I will be posting them in a day or so. I would encourage everyone to take a look at Korlash (don't remember who he was then) when the scum were lynched. His behavior seems a little odd.

Again, I will spell this out with my next post.

[Romanus]

K7, you don't get to make a statement like that, this late in the game without some sort of backup. Give me a reason. As far as I am concerned everyone is a suspect and needs to be looked at.

Unless you have a compelling reason for me not making a case against Korlash, which I would love to hear, then I will be looking through for it.

[Romanus]

EL's posts when the town eventually lynched klebian is definitely scummy. Not sure if I have this right, but I believe he was the first to jump on that wagon, but there was a good bit of talk before it.

I am doing some spotty rereading. This is something that jumped out at me. There had to be scum on Klebian's wagon, IMO, and EL looks like he might be it.

Will continue investigating.

[Romanus]

and how do you know this is accurate?

[Romanus]

I demand that the doc, protected one, and the breadcrumbs need to be outed. This is an important lynch and this is info that needs to be out in the air. The scum are more interested in finding that breadcrumb that a townie would be. Frankly I don't have time to do that careful a reread.

After rereading I am really on the fence. Al J really made the case I was going to make on Korlash and then some. He hit every point that I picked up on. However, it is not definite, especially after my reread of Al J.

Thing is I've seen it happen so many times that when two guys are at each other like this they turn out to both be townies that made each other look scummy.

That is not completely true in this case, their posts that had nothing to do with each other make them both look scummy in my eyes.

I want the Doc info to help me get off the fence. New reread with fresh info should do it.

Oh, and

Unvote

[Romanus]

I'm down with a Korlash lynch. I'll wait for an updated votecount, to see where things stand. Once that votecount happens, plan on seeing me put my vote on Korlash, unless I change my mind again.

Right now, I think Korlash is scum.

[Romanus]

Korlash, are you even trying to make sense anymore?

[Romanus]

The fact that Al J is the vote leader and that I could hammer him has made me pause. Also that he is #2 on my scum list.

Also, I asked for information that it appears I am not going to get, which is fine.

Where is Clockwork Muse in all of this. He isn't voting either and hasn't posted near as much.

[Romanus]

Vote: Korlash

[Romanus]

Many great and humble apologies to ClockworkRuse for the misspelling of his name.

I believe there is about 6 hours to deadline. I wish ClockR would have at least expressed his intentions.

I will give ClockR a chance to vote, hammer Al J if that is what he wants to do. If he votes other than Al J, I am going to hammer Al J.

My reasoning is simple enough. I don't want a deadline lynch. We, the town, need to lynch. At most the wagon has one scum on it. If Al J comes up town, I am pretty sure I know who the scum is on the wagon. We do have a mislynch in our pocket.

I predict the doctor is going to die tonight, which will clear someone else.

I'll have access throughout the day.

[Romanus]

I'm saying IF this is a mislynch.

Time to go to sleep

UNVOTE

vote: Alabaska J

[Romanus]

apparently I don't know what I am talking about.

[Romanus]

The reason I am being somewhat silent is that my two top suspects turned out to be town. Now, I did suspect that Korlash was the doctor, even before the breadcrumbs. I purposefully didn't go back and try to find the breadcrumbs because I really just don't like that stuff. He might have well just claimed. It got him killed anyway.

Enough about the very bad play of Korlash.

I am going back to my first reread notes and going to do a somewhat quick reread to see what I can see.

Shanba pinged pretty hard earlier for me IIRC.

[Romanus]

What I meant by going to sleep was that day was over, that's all. Whether we won or not, it would be night since the end of day is the lynch.

What I meant by having a mislynch in our pocket was that we wouldn't lose if we mislynched.

I thought that if Al J came up town and Korlash lived through the night, Korlash would be obv scum.

And if I thought the Al J wagon was obv wrong I would have said so. I didn't. In fact I stated that I was ok with the Al J wagon.

I'm blaming Korlash for all this nonsense. His doctor crap just confused everyone and took our focus off of scum hunting.

I do not like the fact that CR was able to cruise and not get a vote down or even declare himself. At best -- anti-town. At worste -- Scum.

Right now ClockworkRuse is my lynch candidate.

[Romanus]

The addition of the IF was because someone brought up that point before.

If people don't post, there is no way we are going to win this game. If you are a townie, please, please, pretty please, post. It is way too easy for scum to stay under the radar right now.

[Romanus]

Shanba did ping for me earlier. The non vote at deadline also concerned me. I'm going to have to go back and see what exactly pinged for me. Not sure when I am going to be able to do that, but soon.

K7, I just don't know about. I reread is in order.

[Romanus]

No, I did not, and I explained this before all the crap went down. I demanded that he just come clean with all of it.

[Romanus]

I am reading. Going back to my original notes, during my first readthrough, Shanba, now CR, pinged very hard. I'm going to have to find what it was I was seeing.

Right now, I put him at the top. The lack of a vote by deadline only more so puts him up there.

K7 just looks townie to me.

Actually, I'm going with ClockworkRuse.

It's between K7 and CR. CR is much more scummy to me.

My vote is unofficially on Clockwork Ruse.

[Romanus]

You can't answer for anything nor defend anything. I really don't have to explain anything because this is endgame.

If I had really solid evidence then I would present it. I really don't. I don't feel like sitting here and debating conjecture and a whole lot of WIFOM.

I can't PROVE anything. There is no proof to be made. All I have is my best guess, and you can FOS all you like.

This isn't page 4, it is endgame. Your FOS means nothing and sounds desperate and even more scummy.

As for what you want. About not liking my bland opinions. Oh well. It isn't my opinion as much as it is my vote. It may be bland but it counts just as much as any other, whether I give bland or spicy opinions.

The time for explaining theories is over. Townies need to make up their own damn minds.

Vote: ClockworkRuse

[Romanus]

Oh, and you want me to answer that question of yours.

The breadcrumb means nothing. A scum can just as easily leave a trail as a doctor considering the scum know who they tried to kill just as much as the doctor knows who he protected.

As far as I'm concerned, I was the only one acting pro-town by demanding the doc out himself so we could have an open air discussion of the matter. Now we look like a bunch of idiots.

That is all I have to say on that matter.

[Romanus]

Everyone is suspicious. An FOS at the end of the game? What kind of non-committal stuff is that?

I'm suspicious of everyone. A Finger of Suspicion is laughable. Makes you look like you are coming after me, but not without a vote. It is a wishy-washy tactic that just makes you look even scummier.

Confirm Vote: ClockworkRuse

I really don't have anything else to contribute. I will be reading. If I change my mind I will certainly let you know.

Others need to make up their mind instead of casting suspicion and hoping others jump on before they commit.

[Romanus]

All you can do is ask.

[Romanus]

then start discussing.

All I see is finger pointing. Someone want to make a case go ahead.

[Romanus]

So why didn't anyone else jump up and down screaming not to kill the doctor, or defend Korlash to the very end.

And how in the hell does CR get away with all of this when he wouldn't even contribute. He saw what was about to go down and did nothing to stop it. I could have not voted and Korlash would have gotten lynched. Why stick my neck out like that?

I made my intentions clear, and when the doc didn't chime up, someone who believed him to be the doc should have said something.

No, I did not look for the crumbs. I don't believe in them, and they obviously don't work. I made my case, said I would not look for them, and didn't. The fact that you believe I did because I must have, is ridiculous.

Now, making a case that I did hammer the doctor and my second scum was a townie, well, that is a case I can't really defend, except by saying that it was just really bad play, even though they both looked scummy.

[Romanus]

I'm sorry, I completely misremembered how all that went as I have been focusing on the first couple days.

My real point is that CR gets to point at me for what I did at the end of yesterday when he did nothing at all but watch a townie, who I believe he knew was a townie, get lynched.

If anyone looks more scummy due to their actions at the end of yesterday, it is CR, not I.

[Romanus]

The crumbs are fine afterwards.

But actually discussing them while the person is still alive is asinine. Why not just claim?

We were discussing something we couldn't discuss. Does that sound right to you?

[Romanus]

Well, it seems that I am scummy because of my other incarnations mistakes, which I agree were troubling, but obviously nothing I can do to defend it.

However, you also called my behavior at the end of yesterday into question. Not sure if there is anything to explain, but I do have to say that I was so infuriated by the whole doc/breadcrumb thing that I'm not really surprised by how unfocused I was on scumhunting.

Every time I think about it my blood pressure goes up.

[Romanus]

I have fully accounted for it. That's fine if you don't believe it.

I was more concerned with the fact that if we mislynched we would get another day than if we got the scum we would win.

Though, truthfully, it would probably be more than I could overlook as well.

All I can ask is that you consider the entire game and not just a misstatement on my part.

But if you can't get over it, and you need to lynch me, I will take the blame for the town losing this game.

[Romanus]

No, because even if I found them, they are not to be relied upon for reasons I have already stated.

I also did not wish to take the power away from the role, like a good townie. I should have just outed him.

Hindsight

[Romanus]

Whatever. I should have found the breadcrumbs and outed him. Or someone else should have outed him.

I decided to not waste my time looking for the breadcrumbs that would prove nothing.

Again I have misspoken, or weren't exactly precise.

I would think that rather than quibbling over these little semantic things, one would actually look over the record of the game and come up with some real evidence of scummy behavior.

[Romanus]

I will just answer your first question

The alignments I knew, starting on day one, were the people who were already dead, and therefore everyone knew their alignment at that point.

I just see a whole lot of: he was voting or suspicious of a townie, therefore scum; he was voting or suspicious of scum, he was bussing; he is arguing with a scum, therefore distancing; he was agreeing with a towine, therefore buddying up.

As for my not following through on my promise for arguments, sorry. Many things have been going on in RL and did not give me the time to make a detailed argument like you just have. And yes, I have changed my mind, but that would seem to me to be more townie than scummy. If it is opportunistic, which is arguable, that is one thing. But being open to changing your mind on a person is a quality more townies should have. They are not contradictions if I just simply changed my mind.

If I say I don't see the case, and then come back and say that I do, that is a change of mind, reading something differently.

As for the doc thing. It was a mess. I was and am the only one commenting on it. I've explained what I meant by those posts. I think my words are being twisted to mean things that they don't really mean.

In essence, I was saying I should have gone back and found the crumbs and outed the post, therefore the doctor. But like I also said, I left it to the doc.


The other point I would like to make is that CR again wishes to make me look bad for making my position known at the end of yesterday and hammering, when he was the one who disappeared. I gave you the chance to hammer, but let everyone know that I would do it, and I did do it.

And I did not wish to end discussion as much as I wanted everyone in there with their own opinions. People waiting to be convinced by others is not good.

[Romanus]

I have to apologize for some bad play, a lot of misstatements.

I don't think it would have made any difference. nekko had become beyond reproach.

[Romanus]

I'm usually much better at my postings, to say exactly what I mean to say. I had a lot going on and really didn't take as much care as I usually do, rereading my posts more objectively, and editing.

Very cool game though.