Open 80 - Double Day Mafia (Game Over!)
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Knight of Cydonia Mafia Scum
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Knight of Cydonia Mafia Scum
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Wow. well, this was going to be a full LoS, but I'd actually like to have a focused look at forbiddan light.
First 2-3 pages, she makes a couple of random votes, removes them fairly quickly (fair enough, you might say, since they were random), then starts a small off-shoot convo into the value of the random votes.
She then self-votes. Now, I haven't played with forbiddan, so I have nothing meta to go on, but I have played around 25 games of Mafia/Mafia variants on other forums (none as good as this one), and if experience tells me anything, it's that a self-voter, who then pulls the vote off themselves as soon as a wagon looks like forming, is going to be scum.
My thoughts are out there, that's one of the most important things a mislynchee can do. I can only hope you find the scum with the help of my analysis or something.Seriously, rereading this, I'm not surprised I'm being voted. Hell, if I weren't me, I'd be voting me for this stuff. The only problem is the fact I am me and know I'm town.
I also don't like the way she keeps reiterating she's going to be a mislynchee - it seems like that's her only defence. She's also tried to pass it off as 'a plan'... well I think it was a plan, but it was one to reverse-psych us out.
And if you want some final, damning evidence (IMHO):
Okay, I'm sorry, butI'm sorry, but I don't see how you can vote K7 over me looking over my actions. I'm glad you didn't, but it does make me wary.what?This is reverse-psych play at it's finest, IMHO. Classic WIFOM. We're all supposed to think "Oh, surely a Mafia player wouldn't want us to vote them!"
Vote: forbiddanlight-
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Knight of Cydonia Mafia Scum
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I honestly think if the town doesn't lynch forbidden after quite possibly the scummiest first day I ever did see, we're screwed. Anyone who acts this scummy as town is a hindrance, and anyone who acts so blatantly obvious as scum is a gift.
And like my mum says, never refuse a gift. Because you can always get store credit.-
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Knight of Cydonia Mafia Scum
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Knight of Cydonia Mafia Scum
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I'm really glad you responded like this, forbiddan. Before, I had a 1% suspicion you might have been town. Now, it's somewhere around 0.00001%.Which is why I don't worry as much about what he's saying. His vote is warranted, but I figured I'd point out the part wherehe's stating that he'd be happy to see me go even as town.That's NOT good, at all. But either way, I can't make much of it since my play has been horrid this game, so I just point it out so that it might be examined later.
You've rather cleverly misinterpreted my post there. I said that I was pretty damn sure that you were scum, but that if you were town, you're doing us no help. I at no point said *bolded part*, I just stated that it makes no sense for a town player to do this, since it only helps the Mafia, and that if you were town, it wouldn't be a loss. I never said I was lynching you without caring if you were town or scum, which is what you've tried to imply.-
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Knight of Cydonia Mafia Scum
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He does have an opinion... it just happens to be the same as 4 or 5 other people's at any given time.
And now you're stretching. I said I'd be almost as happy. That doesn't mean I'm voting for you whether or not you're town - it means if you aren't scum, you're screwing up our first lynch, and it's better than we find out what you are now, than let you confuse us further, when it's down to 4/5 to lynch.Quote:
Quite frankly, m'dear, if you are town, I'd be almost as happy to see you go. You're doing nothing by playing this way other than helping the Mafia.
Um...bolded part...your bolded part of my quote says exactly this...I think you are stretching.-
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Knight of Cydonia Mafia Scum
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It certainly looks like a initial strategy that went wrong, to me. I think fl is almost certainly (99.9999% sure) scum, and if so, I'd suggest having a big look at killa's reaction in 1.5. They've both played a lot of WIFOM throughout the day, so I'd say they look a lot like a pair trying to play a strategy. Killa, I'm less certain of than fl, but only because he's been a bit quiet - I'm actually leaning town with him, if only because I think he realised that his trying to draw aggro players out isn't necessarily going to draw out the family. I think it's most likely that if fl is scum(and I'm sure she is), so is he, though.-
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Knight of Cydonia Mafia Scum
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Knight of Cydonia Mafia Scum
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It's KoC, not KC. The day we forget the humble 'of' is the day I keel over and get raped by a panda. I don't call you Athenian, do I?
A SECRET RECIPE OF ELEVEN HERBS AND SPICES
forbiddanlight - 8 (killa seven, armlx, SpyreX, Manito, Corinthian, Knight of Cydonia, Joubert, CF Riot)
LaptopGun - 1 (Bogre)
Gimbo - 1 (dcorbe)
Joubert - 1 (ShadowGirl)
CF Riot - 1 (forbiddanlight)
Not Voting - FaerieLord, LaptopGun, Gimbo, Firestarter
16 alive, 9 to lynch.
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Knight of Cydonia Mafia Scum
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Knight of Cydonia Mafia Scum
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Knight of Cydonia Mafia Scum
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You see, this is what annoys me most. Not the fact your only defences are "Oh, it was a plan, honest!" and "You'll be sorry when I flip town", it's the fact you're giving up already. If you were honestly town, you'd be fighting tooth and nail at L-1. Why aren't you? I've seen innocents turn a L-1 on them into a successful scum-lynch before, so saying it's a no-hoper is out of the question.-
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Knight of Cydonia Mafia Scum
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I don't think it's as black and white as that, SpyreX. Looking at it as "You didn't vote because you wanted to avoid people looking at you!" can go on into a WIFOM chain long enough to tow the Earth back form the Medusa Cascade. If fl had been playing normally as opposed to a crap, one-dimensional complete-lack-of-defence, then we could look at the votes to see what's what. As it is, she probably fooled as many townies as she made goons happy. For now, based on yesterday, I will FoS Killa7, simply because he quite happily went completely AWOL while forbiddan dug herself a deeper and deeper hole, turning up only when it was a near certainty she would be lynched.-
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Knight of Cydonia Mafia Scum
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Okay, from what I've read of Gimbo (Yes, I got quite bored, so I went back and dug up some meta) the louder, more arsey, and less coherent he posts get, the more likely he is to be scum. So, by that reasoning:
Vote: Gimbo
For a poorly-reasoned hammer (although others may have done the same, but at least they'd give reasons), and because he's been really scummy after that.-
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Knight of Cydonia Mafia Scum
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Um... what? Considering the scummy looking players we have elsewhere, I think a policy lynch based on who voted last isn't such a good idea.We need to look at those who hopped on the wagon, positions like 5-9, IMO.
It was too quick for my liking.
A little personal at the end, but it's a good point. There was a lot more conclusive-looking evidence against fl than there ever has been against Manito - the only problem I can see is that, yes, early on, he did parrot other's opinions. Could just be he was agreeing anyway, could be trying to get an easy lynch, but if we voted anyone who agreed with someone else, we'd never lynch anyone.It's funny that you're "pretty" sure on me, with all this amazing "evidence" you seem to have fabricated in your head, yet when there was pages upon pages of discussion about fobiddanlight that had you so non-committal even though your "common sense stated she was scummy". Which are you following in your vote for me - common sense or your gut?
Like Manito says, all of these opinions and much of the information boils down to "Oh, I have a bad feeling about him" - looking through, it reads more like a wall of text than anything coherent or useful.FaerieLord wrote: This kinna annoys me. I have two posts full of information to digest, one of which has 3 PbPas and people are saying I didn't post information.
Also, yes, I did distance myself to a certain extent. Now that you understand my common sense vs gut vote, you can see why.
Right now, I'm torn between FL, Gimbo and K7. FL has gone kind of schizo in regards to his earlier comments about how he "rarely votes", but apparently his common sense beat his gut up, or something, because he'll vote now. Gimbo's hammer was... excited, but it might just be he doesn't get to hammer an awful lot. Pretty much all his posts are easy to take as scum or over-eager town, which makes it hard to judge him. And K7, simply for his part in the forbiddan fiasco, and the way he went to ground as soon as the lynch looked certain - and look, he's popped back up now that things don't look so dicey, and he can hide behind this FL/Manito gig.
For now, I'llunvote, simply because I'm not sure which of you is scummier.-
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Knight of Cydonia Mafia Scum
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Well, there's the issue, FL. Don't shorten your points to make them concise - I think it's fair to say everyone here is possessed of a decent intellect (With the possible exclusion of Gimbo, but the jury's out there...), so please, if you don't want to be accused of not making decent points, say it all, you don't need to boil anything down. I'd rather read a long, wordy post that clearly states what you think about who, than have to interpret short, easy posts. In fact, I'm actually leaning town on you now, simply because you've started: a) posting good, long, thought-out, non-OMGUS posts, and b) you're not just saying "Oh, I have a bad feeling".
Which leaves Gimbo, who to be honest only worries me because his hammer wasn't reasoned, and the fact that 324 ("shit") could really be interpreted either way; and Killa7... well. I think pretty much everything has been said that matters about K7. He draws fl into self-voting, then sticks his vote in, and disappears, making only a couple of trivial posts, until, just before Gimbo's hammer:
Now, to me, this looks like he's not sure if fl was scum or not - which doesn't make sense if he is scum, unless it's a bit of WIFOM on his part. It's certainly odd, considering his vote is on her at this point, and hasn't moved since it was put there.Well, don't self-vote, unless you're scum.
The one question I want to raise here, and I want an answer from K7 on, is: Why was your vote on fl at all, if, as this post suggests, you weren't sure/didn't think she was scum, unless you knew she was town?-
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Knight of Cydonia Mafia Scum
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Wow, you know what, no bad feelings towards Gimbo, but wow. If this is what we get when we kick Gimbo, we need to do it more often. Simply because you're no longer acting like an arse, Llama, and removed that massive parting OMGUS from Gimbo, you're not half as big as you were on my scum-dar. Which leaves Faerie Lord and K7, who I will reserve judgement on until he actually turns up (has he, yet? prod, maybe?)
Manito, please, while your viewpoint may be valid, I don't appreciate the constant sniping. There's a difference between a valid debate and a snipe-fest, and you're walking the line. You can get your points across perfectly well without "/chuckle"'s.
That said, your... somewhat belligerent offensive has worked. FL has changed completely from Day 1 - if he was town, I'd expect him to have been more consistent in voting style, instead of jumping in feet-first, a complete change from "I vote rarely." So, I willVote: FaerieLordfor schizophrenia, wall-of-texting to try and avoid questions, and the way his calm demeanour has completely cracked under any kind of pressure.-
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Knight of Cydonia Mafia Scum
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As any good Mafia player knows, there's a difference between posting a response, and actually answering points levied at you. Looking back, almost all of you replies to Manito's queries have been "I already answered this", and then a really hasty-looking line summarising, which often doesn't properly answer the question. You then got annoyed when people continued to ask those questions.And this is what I don't like, and not because it is on me. First of all, I have not been avoiding any questions. Please direct me to any question I have dodged. Secondly, tell me how my posting style has changed? At best it's slightly more aggressive, but I am still pretty calm. Also, since when is wall of texting a scum tell?
I said I was going to put K7 aside for a moment - there's not much point in questioning someone who's lurking until they begin to make a commitment to the game.(368) KOC votes FL, I dont like how he dismisses K7 due to inactivity though. Lurking does not change alignment.
Speaking of which, K7 has only posted about 5 posts that are more than a sentence long, and they seem to be perfectly placed just as people start thinking
about a prod. Lurking in open sight anyone?
K7, I want a full analysis, if not of the whole day, then at least of 1.5 so far from you, and preferably an LoS of some kind, even if it's just a couple of people that you really suspect. I will begin to look at voting you if you continue to lurk like this.-
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Knight of Cydonia Mafia Scum
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Knight of Cydonia Mafia Scum
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By really scummy, I mean the way he popped up, drew fl into the light, made sure she had a few votes, then laid down a mid-group vote, so as not to appear to be hammering or just wagoning. Ever since the fl lynch, he's gone to ground, posted about 4 times, and instead of actually defending himself, he's just said "Oh... um... Gimbo looks bad, yeah, for teh same reasons everyone else has given... and um... I'm gonna look at FaerieLord because everyone else is..."
Right now, It just looks to me like he's trying to lurk in the crowd, posting statements full of nothingness to avoid a prod, which would make us look at him again.-
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Knight of Cydonia Mafia Scum
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Oh, and if you're accusing me of avoiding your case, why didn't you vote Corinthian ahead of me, since he too didn't answer your case immediately, and was apparently higher on your list? Looking for an easy target?LlamaFluff wrote:My third suspect would be Knight of Cydonia
Nice tunnel vision to enter the game with. While having a clear suspect is never a bad thing, we now have no idea of your inital thoughts on most players, on most arguments and ideas, on other wagons. We just know you want forbiddan dead. The way this is said also implies a later return to look at other players, which never did happen. D1 you spent just about the whole time pushing for a fobiddan lynch.Knight of Cydonia wrote:Wow. well, this was going to be a full LoS, but I'd actually like to have a focused look at forbiddan light.
...Yes, I did tunnel into the start of the game a bit, so what? I considered forbiddan to be the most scummy - indeed, pretty much the only person at that point to have posted any kind of scum-tell.. And if you actually look at my posts, you'll see I also took a look at killa7, my other main suspect. All I'd be doing by posting what I think of everyone else is repeating "I'm not sure, hasn't seemed scummy yet" another 14 times.
Knight of Cydonia wrote:I honestly think if the town doesn't lynch forbidden after quite possibly the scummiest first day I ever did see, we're screwed. Anyone who acts this scummy as town is a hindrance, and anyone who acts so blatantly obvious as scum is a gift.
And like my mum says, never refuse a gift. Because you can always get store credit.
Now, I have to side with what forbiddan said here. These two quotes to me basically boil down to the following statement -Knight of Cydonia wrote:
Quite frankly, m'dear, if you are town, I'd be almost as happy to see you go. You're doing nothing by playing this way other than helping the Mafia.anyone who acts this way as town is a hindrance
"I think you are scum, but as a townie you dont have much use, so lynching you isnt horrible either way"
I have seen this debate a few times, and my position is always the same. A townie who is not too good is still a townie. They are still a body that mafia needs to get lynched, NK or endgame. Killing off someone because they are not a good player is handing scum a free pass for the day.
Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know you wanted fl kept around to confuse us for the next lynch, and the next, and the next.[/n]
First of all IKnight of Cydonia wrote:It certainly looks like a initial strategy that went wrong, to me. I think fl is almost certainly (99.9999% sure) scum, and if so, I'd suggest having a big look at killa's reaction in 1.5. They've both played a lot of WIFOM throughout the day, so I'd say they look a lot like a pair trying to play a strategy. Killa, I'm less certain of than fl, but only because he's been a bit quiet - I'm actually leaning town with him, if only because I think he realised that his trying to draw aggro players out isn't necessarily going to draw out the family. I think it's most likely that if fl is scum(and I'm sure she is), so is he, though.hatewith a passion people who do the 99% scum stuff, this is always bull to make your case just look better. The rest of this post is ripe with contradiction though. At first KOC says that fobiddan is scum (grr) and given that she is scum, we should take a close look at K7 tomorrow because he thinks that they were playing very similary. At the same time though, you have a town read on K7. You train of thought goes forbiddan scum -> K7 scum. So why do you say that K7 is town? You again finish with forbiddan and K7 are scum. What is K7 and why?
Wow, way to completely misread my post. I said I was less certain of killa than fl, and that I was leaning towards town on him, not that he was town. I would have been leaning town on him still, if he wasn't lurking so deliberately. And if you're calling me picking out forbiddan as scum as a tell, you have 8 other players, including yourself, to look at.
Tunnel vision and personal attacks... words exchanged that make both players look a little assy.Knight of Cydonia wrote:Yeah, look, fl, we all know you're scum, or the most retarded townie ever, so stop trying to throw crap out there to try and get a townie lynch day 1.5.
You're calling this a point? At this point, when the majority of the town thought forbiddan was scum, you're calling this a tell? Hindsight is a wonderful thing now, but back then, it looked like forbiddan was trying to implicate people in order to drag someone down with her.
Defends people who werent voting (good) and then FoSs K7 for lurking (not as good) it would be nice to see a case to back this up a bit.Knight of Cydonia wrote:I don't think it's as black and white as that, SpyreX. Looking at it as "You didn't vote because you wanted to avoid people looking at you!" can go on into a WIFOM chain long enough to tow the Earth back form the Medusa Cascade. If fl had been playing normally as opposed to a crap, one-dimensional complete-lack-of-defence, then we could look at the votes to see what's what. As it is, she probably fooled as many townies as she made goons happy. For now, based on yesterday, I will FoS Killa7, simply because he quite happily went completely AWOL while forbiddan dug herself a deeper and deeper hole, turning up only when it was a near certainty she would be lynched.
Well, he was lurking, and it was being done very cleverly, posting fluff just enough to avoid a prod, whilst still managing to lure forbiddan into that lynch. That was my case - he's lurking, and deliberately avoiding attention. We have no good roles, AFAIK, so the only explanation to lurk is as scum.
Here he bounces around between Gimbo, K7 and FL. As of 351, FL gets an annoyed read, Gimbo townish, and K7 as scummiest seeming.
Finally a bit of a case with a vote. I may not agree with a FL scum read, but its something. Again though it really isnt a novel idea though. Out of his three suspects, gimbo got replaced which alleviated suspicion there, and K7 really wasnt moving towards a lynch. It seems as if he took the safest vote and parroted the reasons for it here.Knight of Cydonia wrote:That said, your... somewhat belligerent offensive has worked. FL has changed completely from Day 1 - if he was town, I'd expect him to have been more consistent in voting style, instead of jumping in feet-first, a complete change from "I vote rarely." So, I willVote: FaerieLordfor schizophrenia, wall-of-texting to try and avoid questions, and the way his calm demeanour has completely cracked under any kind of pressure.
Agreeing with a case isn't parroting. And I was the first to comment on the way his posting style has changed from calm to relatively aggro.
This again bugs me a little. If you have a scum read on K7, which given forbiddan flipping town I am a little surprised at, you should follow up your lead. You can ask questions to lurkers, vote lurkers and ask the mod to prod lurkers.Knight of Cydonia wrote:I said I was going to put K7 aside for a moment - there's not much point in questioning someone who's lurking until they begin to make a commitment to the game.
Speaking of which, K7 has only posted about 5 posts that are more than a sentence long, and they seem to be perfectly placed just as people start thinking
about a prod. Lurking in open sight anyone?
I can't ask for a prod when he's lurking in open sight, which is what he's doing. He's posting, just with absolutely no content, barely a line or two. He's also completely ignored several questions I've asked of him - or do those not find your strung together case?
Overall though with KOC, I get a very scummy D1 play, and a more neutral D2 play, which is the only real reason I have him below Corin on my suspicion list.
FoS Knight of Cydoniaeven though I still love that song, long time Muse fan.
I am now open to questions and comments since I feel fully caught up so fire away-
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Knight of Cydonia Mafia Scum
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Because he is posting, it's just he's doing the bare minimum. If I asked for a prod, I'd probably be told "Killa7 is posting, don't waste my time."armlx wrote:
Why not?I can't ask for a prod when he's lurking in open sight, which is what he's doing. He's posting, just with absolutely no content, barely a line or two. He's also completely ignored several questions I've asked of him - or do those not find your strung together case?-
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Ummm, okay, where the hell did I OMGUS you? I haven't voted you or Gimbo, and all I ever commented on Gimbo was that he was hard to read, and that the reason-less hammer and "shit" post could be taken a variety of ways. I said I was unsure of Gimbo, and the same goes for you, and everyone else here, since I haven't played regularly with any of you, and have no meta to go on.You not only managed to ignore the case I laid out against you, but also OMGUSed me a bit. I still don’t think you have answered the questions that CFR presented to you as well. Because of all that, I voted you so I would finally get your attention and it worked.
I will answer that CFR post, but not right now - I'm going to the cinema in about 15 minutes, and don't have time to read through and post properly.
And if that vote was to get my attention, then why does it still need to be there? I've answered your queries, I'll answer CFR's next post - attention grabbed. Or are you trying to start up a wagon here, waiting for your partners to build it up to 3 votes, level with FL?
I'm not psychic. I can't refute your case before you post it. At least I've replied, Corinthian hasn't posted in so long he needs to be prodded. BY your logic, you should be voting him because he's higher on your list (apparently), and to get his attention.You posted after I put up my case.-
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"His attitude during the FL lynch seemed over the top."CF Riot wrote: Lastly, I have a new suspect in Knight of Cydonia. His attitude during the Forbid lynch seemed over-the-top. Now the way he changes his vote from Gimbo to FL seems out of place to me. In post 348 he says he's noticed how FL's play has changed since yesterday, but says he's still torn because he's "hard to judge". This is where he unvotes Gimbo. His next post is 351 and he says he's leaning town on FL because he has good posting under the new heat. But then right after that with only one 1-line post from FL in between, he votes FL for "schizophrenia, wall-of-texting to try and avoid questions, and the way his calm demeanour has completely cracked under any kind of pressure. " Two of those being things he'd said weren't that scummy two posts ago.
Well, I haven't been around long enough to generate a meta here, but I'm afraid that's how I play town. I pick someone, I zero in, yes, maybe I tunnel-vision sometimes, but, unlike FL, I stick with my gut - I don't get it confused with common sense.
"The way he changes his vote from Gimbo to FL seemed off."
The main of my vote against Gimbo was the way Gimbo was playing, from what meta I've read of his, it's a lot less bat-shit crazy that usual. Then, of course, LlamaFluff replaced, and Llama has been a considerable amount more intelligent, and less scummy. Gimbo/Llama now appears less scummy than FL, so my vote switched to FL, who hasn't done much to shift in, IMHO.
"His next post is 351 and he says he's leaning town on FL because he has good posting under the new heat. But then right after that with only one 1-line post from FL in between, he votes FL for "schizophrenia, wall-of-texting to try and avoid questions, and the way his calm demeanour has completely cracked under any kind of pressure. " Two of those being things he'd said weren't that scummy two posts ago."
I said I was pleased with the improvement in posting style from FL, as the post of his I was replying to was less wall-of-text than previous. I certainly never mentioned his schizophrenic play and the way he cracked so completely to be town. In fact, these are what set my scum-dar off - because as soon as I said I was leaning town based on his change in posting style, he delivered a one liner, and has now returned to wall-of-texting and failing to answer queries with more than a couple of lines.
Oh, and FL's last post:
doesn't help him in mine eyne. If there was the option to ignore her, why didn't you, I dunno, perhaps suggest that? Or were you happy to let us roll the mislynch wagon down the hill to the noose? Looking back over 1.0, you were basically saying "I'm not doing anything until the fl situation is resolved" - in other words, "I'm not touching the vote button until you lynch her."EBWODP. Missed armlx there. Ignoring a problem won't solve it. Removing it solves it. There are only two ways to remove it. Think she is town / Lynch her.-
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Ummm... contradicting yourself there. You jumped on Manito with far fewer scum-tells, IMHO, than we had been given by forbiddan. That doesn't seem the action of someone who 'rarely votes' to me, it looks like the action of someone waiting for the town to mislynch, then pressing their case against someone else.-
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But that one vote was thrown in on much weaker evidence than we had on forbiddan.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. If you honestly saw her play as newbie town rather than newbie scum, why didn't you say so? Oh, wait, that's right, not only did you refuse to vote, but apparently you also refused to say anything other than covering your own hide.I saw Forbiddan's play as very scummy, but newbie town scummy.
It is NEVER beneficial to lynch town. As you said yourself, it's still one body the scum have to NK or get mislynched.Meaning the lynch of a townie was beneficial to the town.
A COMPLETE turn-around. Scummier by the minute.-
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It wasn't a policy lynch on my part - I believed she was almost certainly scum. However, you have to admit, not havig her around this day has actually allowed us to have a much wider look at teh whole group, instead of focusing on forbiddan.KoC is being OMGUSsy and ignoring cases against him today after tunneling and policy lynching fl D1
And if you want to call it a policy lynch, by your own logic, there are 8 other people who should be suspected. 9, including yourself, since it's a policy lynch to lynch anyone advocating a policy lynch. I'm certainly not OMGUSing - if I was, I'd have thrown out about 5 votes by now, in response to CF Riot and your cases - neither of which I ignored, so saying I have isn't going to fly. I responded to both of you. If I was scum, I'd probably be voting you at this point. I'm not, because I believe you're town, like me. I agree that Corinthian is definitely lurking far too much - he's guilty of doing exactly what K7 is doing: posting with just votes, or FoSes, with a couple of line behind them, then disappearing for two pages, sometimes more.
And calling the FL case weak is... well, a bit dumb. She was unwilling to vote forbiddan, who basically painted a giant bullseye on her ass by self-voting - FL may have been right, but look at it without hindsight, and it's a giant scumtell, a WIFOM play that went wrong. Day 1.5, FL then leaps on Manito with far less scum-tell, and far less persuasive scum-tell, than forbiddan, having said about 7 pages before "I rarely vote". Then look at the way FL's posting style changes to suit whoever is pointing hte finger at him - while it was just Manito, FL just rattled off "I already answered this" and then a pathetic one-liner summarising a non-existent post. Then, when I point this out, FL finally drops the wall of text and posts a decent enough reply. As soon as I say the changed post style would make me lean town, he reverts to one-liners, and has since done little but wall-of-text again. That return to one-lining, couple with the continual changing to suit different audiences, and the difference in this from D1.0, is what made me stick my vote on him. A town player shouldn't need to constantly change the way they post for each accusation.
Also, just one for the rest of the town to consider - look who leapt to FL's defence as soon as heat came down: Llama and CF Riot. That makes three. Could be perfectly innocent, but if FL flips scum, as I'm sure he would, we might be onto something.-
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Didn't sotp this at first:
Okay, WHAT? You basically want the town to blinker themselves into three people, ignoring the perfectly valid case against FL, and the "It-would-be-a-case-but-he's-sodded-off-AGAIN" K7 case?LlamaFluff wrote:
QFT lets get to lynching KoC/manito/Corinarmlx wrote:This is Fae's general meta. At worst its null, its possibly town. He is a poor lynch.
Blinkering the town in this way is not a good idea.
Meta-reads are WIFOM at best - they could have changed their play-style to make you think that, or they could have no changed their style because they think you'll think they've changed their style... Meta is rarely useful.Armlx wrote: This is Fae's general meta. At worst its null, its possibly town. He is a poor lynch.
Compare your evidence in defence "This is his general meta" and "It's not his fault he didn't vote - forbid's case was hard" - which it wasn't, either commit a vote to someone else who looks more scummy, or at least give a better argument than "I don't think forbid is scum" - to the evidence of constant play-style changes within this game, the epic walls-of-text, and the complete turn-around from D1 ("Lynching a town is never good, it's still one more body for scum to NK") to 1.5 ("Lynching forbid was good, even though she was town, but I didn't put my vote on because I was afraid of Mafia"). No contest really.-
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Sorry, it's been a looong 48 hours. I did address that point though:
If he'd remained consistent with the style I said made me lean town on him, my vote probably wouldn't be where it is. The fact he went stright back to one liners after that, coupled with some extremely scummy statements (409, definitely, plus a lot of the stuff he said during the forbiddan episode about refusing to even open another case until we'd solved it - interestingly, he started this stuff at L-4, at a point where forbiddan had just begun her "You'll be sorry when I flip town" stuff.)Then, when I point this out, FL finally drops the wall of text and posts a decent enough reply. As soon as I say the changed post style would make me lean town, he reverts to one-liners, and has since done little but wall-of-text again. That return to one-lining, couple with the continual changing to suit different audiences, and the difference in this from D1.0, is what made me stick my vote on him.
is why my vote is where it is. It's ironic that what some are calling a fairly shaky argument (I think it would be good grounds for a Cop-search in any other game, at the least) has led to FL making some even more scummy slip-ups though - 409 reads like scum grasping for excuses, rather than town explaining.-
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No, being concise is not a scum tell. One-liners that don't properly answer the questions asked, and are summaries of "previous posts" that don't exist, is.FaerieLord wrote: @ Knight, since you're post is pretty much the same thing rehashed
Being concise is not a scum tell.
Which is idiotic, since how can I change a meta that looks exactly the same as previous games? That's like saying I changed a portable telephone into a mobile.Knight wrote:Meta-reads are WIFOM at best - they could have changed their play-style to make you think that, or they could have no changed their style because they think you'll think they've changed their style... Meta is rarely useful.
You can repurpose a meta. Playing a town-meta while NKing isn't hard, as long as you target the right people, so that it's unlikely people link your day-play (which reads town, as it's in line with your meta) with those you pick out at night. A half-decent wolf knows how to use WIFOM properly, to make NK's look so unlikely as to be near-impossible to read.#
Also: more of the aggression here, which never popped up while no-one was looking at you 1.0. Is this aggression and name-calling in line with your "meta"? Is this the cracks widening?-
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There's a big difference between saying someone is hindering the town as townie, and saying they should be lynched regardless. I considered forbiddan to be scum, I voted her on that basis. All you've done is artfully pick out comments that make it look like I'm saying "lynch her whatever". All of us on the forbiddan lynch reckoned she was scum.LlamaFluff wrote: Also how is this
Or thisKnight of Cydonia wrote:I honestly think if the town doesn't lynch forbidden after quite possibly the scummiest first day I ever did see, we're screwed. Anyone who acts this scummy as town is a hindrance, and anyone who acts so blatantly obvious as scum is a gift.
And like my mum says, never refuse a gift. Because you can always get store credit.
Or even thisKnight of Cydonia wrote:
Quite frankly, m'dear, if you are town, I'd be almost as happy to see you go. You're doing nothing by playing this way other than helping the Mafia.anyone who acts this way as town is a hindrance
How are all those not pushing us towards a policy lynch. You basically are saying that no matter what fl is she needed to be lynched. Right there, no questions asked. That is a policy lynch.Knight of Cydonia wrote:I said I'd be almost as happy. That doesn't mean I'm voting for you whether or not you're town - it means if you aren't scum, you're screwing up our first lynch, and it's better than we find out what you are now, than let you confuse us further, when it's down to 4/5 to lynch.
Not everyone wanted a policy lynch. Most people were pushing for her being scum and trying to figure out if she was or was not. You were the only one who seemed intent on getting her lynched regardless of what her alignment was. Also you never vote OMGUSed me, there are many levels. After my case, you mentioned how Gimbo looked scummy while not commenting on the case.Knight of Cydonia wrote: And if you want to call it a policy lynch, by your own logic, there are 8 other people who should be suspected. 9, including yourself, since it's a policy lynch to lynch anyone advocating a policy lynch. I'm certainly not OMGUSing - if I was, I'd have thrown out about 5 votes by now, in response to CF Riot and your cases - neither of which I ignored, so saying I have isn't going to fly. I responded to both of you. If I was scum, I'd probably be voting you at this point. I'm not, because I believe you're town, like me.
Also, I did comment on the Gimbo case - I said
shortly before you replaced in.Myself wrote: The reasonless hammer, combined with the "shit" post, could be read a variety of ways. For that reason, I'll be keeping an eye on Gimbo.
Please, Llama. just give it up. I'm fairly sure you're town, but the evidence you're using is flawed, and nobody agrees with you, apart from armlx, who has magically decided to start posting properly now, as soon as Firestarter points out he's been short-posting - which, looking over his last posts, is generally true. There's about two posts in 1.5 that have decent content, the rest has been regurgitating the cases of others, word for word.
Oh and how many times do I have to re-iterate:
[quote="LlamaFluff]
Honestly, go meta and tell me his actions are still so scummy.
[/quote]
GAH! Meta is a WIFOM at best, useless to divine scum, and leads to mis-lynches at worst. Don't use meta to defend people. Give me evidence within this game, evidence of FL's township, not the scumminess of other people.
We digress here, fellow townies. There are far more scummy looking people, with far more evidence against them, than Firestarter or Corinthian, for example. And yes, I am fully aware that not posting leaves no evidence, but they could still be scummy, yada yada, but frankly, all we can go on is what we have got.
Based on posting styles, aggression, lurking, my LoS at this point would be:
FaerieLord
Killa7
b
i
g
g
a
p
h
e
r
e
armlx (it's taken you this long to actually put a Firestarter case together? Huh. And a null-tell is no defence. It's just a null-tell.)
Bogre(I'm no Oman, but at least Killa has bothered to ghost-post.)
LlamaFluff(I'm still leaning town, but an assault of this length is starting to look a little desperate.)
Everyone else.-
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And the moral of the story is - don't take on too many games at once. If I were you, I'd consider dropping a game or two to concentrate better on this one. I usually limit myself to 3 games maximum.armlx wrote:
I'm lazy, this game sorta fell low on my interest list out of the number I am in. As I said, coming today or tomorrow.armlx (it's taken you this long to actually put a Firestarter case together? Huh. And a null-tell is no defence. It's just a null-tell.)-
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Only on toher sites - but from the games I've moderated away from here, I much prefer having an active player-group, than a bunch of people forcing me to prod them all the time. I'd rather people were honest about how much they can commit themselves to a game than just used "I'm lazy" as an excuse.FaerieLord wrote:
You have never been a mod, have you?Knight wrote:If I were you, I'd consider dropping a game or two-
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1. Yes, I've clearly got tunnel vision, what with having voted for forbiddan, K& (briefly) Gimbo (based onYou also accuse me of tunnel vision, while most of the FL voters are guilty of the same crime, while they occasionally will throw K7 in there (which they all seem to like as well), no real discussion comes from these players apart from defense of me going after them.hisbehaviour, not yours), FL and now Bogre, for his reasonless vote and ghost-posting...
2.No real discussion apart from defence of you coming after me? For the bazillionth time, the reason I'm not voting, or even FoSing you, is because I believe you're misguided town rather than tunnelling scum.
Oh, and saying "Well, they're doing it too" as a defence isn't going to work. Just because others may be guilty of tunnelling, doesn't mean it's okay for you to do it.-
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I'm torn between three main suspects at the moment. I don't like the way FL has gone schizophrenic and is seemingly unable to decide between lurking, one-liners and wall-of-texting, and the constant changes in playstyle, first saying "This is my meta as town" then "Oh, forget my meta, okay?"... but that's what's making it hard to read.
Ireallydespise the way Bogre answered his prod by voting with no reasoning, against someone who, IMHO, is probably one of the least scummy players at the moment. He also has completely refused to post since, despite several people asking for a reason behind the vote.
armlx... well, again, ver hard to read. Could well be town trying to avoid scum attention, could jsut as easily be scum deliberately avoiding the tough questions - and there are definitely some things Firestarter has bought up that he's avoided, and his selective quoting doesn't appeal greatly to me.
I'm going to keep my vote on Bogre for now, simply because I demand some kind of reasoning behind that vote. And if, as I suspect, the reasoning is that he's scum trying to start a wagon, then seeing him lynched and flip scum will do nicely as an explanation.-
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Okay, I quite frankly have other crap to be dealing with, so I'm just going to pick out the two things that really, REALLY strike me as contradictory.FaerieLord wrote:
Where have I told you to forget my meta? And please why is it that every time I tell you to clarify something you said, you never do? Also, where have I gone schizo? Also, where has my playstyle been changing?KoC wrote: I don't like the way FL has gone schizophrenic and is seemingly unable to decide between lurking, one-liners and wall-of-texting, and the constant changes in playstyle, first saying "This is my meta as town" then "Oh, forget my meta, okay?"... but that's what's making it hard to read.
now, surely it makes more sense to take a look at Gimbo at this point, or Killa7, both of whom have done a lot more than Manito, who basically criticzed the way you were nit-picking at people, which sent you into an OMGUS frenzy? Nope, we're gonna go with a really thin case against some guy who doesn't like the fact you were being a tad ass-hattish. OMGUS, anyone?FaerieLord] I rarely vote without a very good reason [/quote] and then, literally the 2nd post of 1.5, and FL's first post in about a page and a half: [quote= wrote: I'm not going to call you out on it.I was going to do it pretty soon myself.Now, onto better things
Vote: Manito
And then, and this is the really juicy part, that shoots a massive hole in your whole argument about being town-leaning on forbiddan - well, just look at the part I've bolded. This, gentlemen, is in response to Gimbo's "shit" post. So, you were leaning town on forbiddan, but you would have hammered her anyway? Um, scummy, much? If you wanted to lynch a townie, you're either a very stupid townie, or scum. And you ain't stupid.
Now let's look at your next post.
It's basically a pile of one-liners. Only once do you refer to a genuine post you've made, and your so-called case is just a shoddy, one-liner PBPA. That's not a case, that's a PBPA, and trying to pass it off as one is a lie. And only scum need to lie.FaerieLord wrote:Manito wrote:
Preemptive OMGUS? I think I've made it pretty clear in my posts that you're awfully suspicious.
I've been saying I don't like you since my first real post
I posted a case on youManito wrote:
and without any sort of precursor or evidence?
Yeah, I'm pretty sure about Manito, thus the vote.SpyreX wrote:
So, after pushing on the Forbidden lynch, but never voting (because they rarely vote) very quickly a vote is placed on Manito. I dont like this at all.
It's pretty simple. I could have either voted for Forbiddan since common sense stated that she was scummy or I could have followed my gut and not voted for her.SpyreX wrote:
- This is so noncommittal (especially since neither is explained) ESPECIALLY after the fact no vote was EVER placed day one.
Where did I ever mention a hammer? Also, it's not an over reaction. I cannot see where you see that.SpyreX wrote:
It was, at least to me, an obvious overreaction since it would have been impossible to hammer Faerie. Why overreact this much?
SpyreX wrote: "I'll do what the town says" AND not posting information because they didn't want to "muddle" the discussion (which led to a lynch they obviously distanced themselves from) I dont like.
This kinna annoys me. I have two posts full of information to digest, one of which has 3 PbPas and people are saying I didn't post information.
LYNCH ALL LIARS!
unvote; vote Faerie Lord
requesting prod/replacement for Bogre - I don't consider just voting sufficient evidence of activity- it's a two word post, ffs.-
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Crap. screwed up that first bit a tad.
Should read:FaerieLord wrote:
I rarely vote without a very good reason
and then, literally the 2nd post of 1.5, and FL's first post in about a page and a half:
FaerieLord wrote:
I'm not going to call you out on it. I was going to do it pretty soon myself. Now, onto better things
Vote: Manito-
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So nobody cares that FaerieLord basically admitted he was going to hammer forbiddan, despite the fact about a page earlier, and ever since, he claimed he was leaning misguided town in her? Sod the rest of the case: HE SAID HE WOULD HAVE HAMMERED SOMEONE HE CONSIDERED TOWN. The only reason he would have for that is: he's scum.
Gimbo wrote: shitFaerieLord wrote:
I'm not going to call you out on it.I was going to do it pretty soon myself.Now, onto better things
Vote: Manito-
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Gimbo wrote: shit
Now, here, you basically admit that you would have hammered forbiddan.FaerieLord wrote:
I'm not going to call you out on it.I was going to do it pretty soon myself.Now, onto better things
Vote: Manito
Before this, in your last two or three posts, you've been saying that you reckon forbiddan to be misguided town rather than dumb scum.
If you're town, and you believed forbiddan to be town, you had no motive whatsoever to lynch her. The only explanations are that either you were lying 1.0, and thought forbiddan was scum (and why on Earth would you lie about that? No good reason.), or that you're scum.
Town players should NEVER, and I mean NEVER, have any reason to hammer someone they believe to be town. "I wanted to get the issue out of the way" is not a good reason - if you wanted it out of the way, and were town, you would have argued forbiddan's corner.
But the honest truth is, you never wanted to prevent that forbiddan lynch. As scum, you knew all too well she wasn't scum, since the role PM's from the first page indicate that each scum knows their partners. What you were really doing, despite all your constant claims you believed her to be town, was steering the lynch without ever voting yourself. All through Day 1.0 there are little bread-crumbs that look as though they're there to make forbiddan look scummy.
Also: Armlx, are you allowed to discuss the game in scum-chat? It may not have been discussion about who to vote for, but explaining why Faerie should be voting rather than withholding is a bit... morally grey, to me.-
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Oh, and if everyone would like to look closely, look how FaerieLord seems to be disappearing until someone brings some fresh evidence up against him, and then posts a pile of quotes, followed by one liners with no actual evidence in his defence.
All he has is "I've gone over this a million times now" - well, actually, you haven't. As far as I can see, this is the first time anyone has actually noticed this huge inconsistency between what you're telling us you thought 1.0, and what it appears you were going to do 1.0.-
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FaerieLord, that is the crux of my whole case against you -no town should ever actively seek to lynch town, or have a motive to lynch town- as LlamaFluff said, its still one more body in the Mafia's way. By admitting you wanted to lynch forbiddan as town, you merely confirm your scumminess.
I believed forbiddan to be scum, but with hindsight, surely it would have been better if we'd stopped the lynch, and slowed down a little? You're defending a mis-lynch, on the grounds that it's started new wagons, but if we had stopped at L-3 and taken a look around, we could have started new wagons then. If you hadn't been basically saying "I think forbiddan is town.... this is why she's scum" all of Day 1.0, the wagon may well have stopped, or at least been slowed so that further discussion could have taken place.-
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Whether it was scummy in your eyes or not doesn't count. It looks incredibly scummy in my eyes, and in 3 other people's as well.But you fail to realise, that me saying that forbiddan lynching was neededwas not scummy behaviour in my eyes.Some lynches must be done. Stop hoping for the best. It ain't happening.
Erm, maybe try posting some actual evidence in your favour, rather than using PBPA's as a whole case. Alternatively, look at the others who have displayed scummy behaviour, and put a good case together against them.What should my defence be then?
The only other person I find even vaguely scummy at this point is armlx, and he's at the least putting a case together that is half-way believable, and contains some real points both for himself as scum, and against other players.
Oh, and of course, there's killa seven.
Mod: please, either prod (Again...) or replace him. I beg you.
Until you either give me definite proof, other than a wall of one-line responses to my posts, or show me someone who has been more scummy today, my vote sticks.
Oh, and on this little statement:
I've played 24 games off-site and moderated 6 off-site, so I think it's fair to say: I've played against and with much better scum than you. And you're right, their play does change from game to game, usually. But not DAY TO DAY, which is what you've done.Also, when you start playing against players better than me, meta will be the most useful tool you'll have. Do you think good players slip often? No, but even good players change their playstyle, even if they don't want to, as scum. I can only think of one person I played with that doesn't (Primate). So saying Meta is a scum tool is entirely naive.
Oh, and they don't try and excuse wanting to lynch town, either.-
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Okay, first off, it doesn't take a lynch to let you see what's what in a game. I read through, came to a conclusion in my first day, based on what I could see, and went with it. It was wrong, but I "put my money where my mouth was", and made an active contribution to the game.FaerieLord wrote:
I was in the game for 3 days. I wasn't directly involved in the forbiddan case. I wasn't going to just pop in and vote. Sure, putting my money were my mouth is would have been better, especially after making bold statements, and to that extent you may be right that it is a scummy action, I'll give you that, but saying that someone is scummy for "staying in the sidelines" for 3 days, where I could have just lurked until the day was over, and posted afterwords, is kinna meh.SpyreX wrote:The fact you felt the lynch needed to go through, said you would hammer it, but never voted for it is what gets me.
If I really wanted to avoid getting my hands dirty, I could have done just that, and no one would notice for three days.
You then actually admit it was scummy, but excuse yourself by saying <bold-section>. Okay, WIFOM, much?
"If I was scum,surelyI would have just lurked instead of pushing you all into the forbiddan lynch without voting myself!"
Also, according to you;
So, you've basically said "If I wanted to avoid your attention, I would have just lurked for three days.", which is a) a pile of WIFOM and b) a contradiction to what you said earlier, where you said you were willing to point shit out against forbiddan, but didn't want to vote in order to avoid attention.FaerieLord wrote: I didn't place my vote on forbiddan because I was worried about getting attention.
Scum, much?-
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*deepbreath*FaerieLord wrote:
My playstyle has not changed! You are failing at judging playstyles badly. So you are ready to ignore the fact that I've said that my playstyle has been constant with other games I was in, but want to be all conclusive of my playstyle based on about 5 posts?KoC wrote:But not DAY TO DAY, which is what you've done.
I don't give a shit about your meta! Meta's can be repurposed so easily by even a mediocre player! I'm going on this game, and you've gone from serene, rarely voting, to basically OMGUSing (minus vote) everyone who has raised a finger against you, and pursuing a case that stinks!
Matjoeman ain't a bad player. Good players will lynch town as town on purpose.KoC wrote:Oh, and they don't try and excuse wanting to lynch town, either.
WIFOM! Complete and utter WIFOM! "A good town player did it once, so because I'm doing it, I must be town!"
1)Mafia is different from site to site 2)I don't doubt you did play against better players. I know I'm not the best player out there, but frankly the case on me is quite bogus. The only one that does not fail at ignoring posts among you all is SpyreX.KoC wrote:I've played 24 games off-site and moderated 6 off-site, so I think it's fair to say: I've played against and with much better scum than you
1) I played about 7 games with an exact same set-up as this
2)THe case is NOT BOGUS! Saying it over and over again will not make it so! You are nor Captain Picard!-
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Knight of Cydonia Mafia Scum
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Precisely. As I've said several times, and no-one seems to have listened, Metas can often be repurposed, which is why they're fairly useless in my eyes. There are very few exceptions where people really do stick to their metas rigidly, but those are very rare. Besides, I'm not arguing about FaerieLord's game-to-game meta, I'm arguing about his complete style change in the space of one lynch.-
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At last, he listens! Every time I bring up a load of FL's playstyle changes, she says "Oh, it's my meta!" but meta is game-to-game: what really pinged my scumdar is the fact her playstyle has changed as soon as that lynch happened.
The fact of the matter is, FL deliberately back-seat drove that wagon on forbiddan, and now we're seeing the true FL. And it's damn scummy.-
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Seriously, what is with this desperate tunnel vision on me, Manito and Corin?
And to me, it lokos like you don't actually have a case on me. I've refuted any and all points made against me, so why are you lumping me in with Manito and Corinthian? Do you just feel the need to fill up a neat trinity, or do you want to make sure you never have to try and find some evidence on anyone else?
TAKE ME DOWN TO THE PARADISE CITY...
FaerieLord - 4 (SpyreX, Manito, Corinthian, Knight of Cydonia)
killa seven - 3 (CF Riot, TheSweatpantsNinja, Firestarter)
armlx - 1 (LaptopGun)
Manito - 1 (FaerieLord)
Firestarter - 1 (armlx)
Corinthian - 1 (LlamaFluff)
LaptopGun - 1 (Bogre)
Not Voting - Joubert, killa seven, BlckKnght
15, 8.
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Crikey... I mean, Faerie had an okay first day, but has gone a bit schizo, and has avoided the whole change in stance on forbiddan issue completely... but Killa was just as guilty of back-seat steering the forbiddan lynch, and has been more consistently lurky and scummy throughout.killa seven wrote:fire. why u askin me for a response when i explained why i voted when i did and talked about theat whole situation when it happened. what do you want to explain i had cramps that day or something?
It's a tough one.-
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Knight of Cydonia Mafia Scum
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...that makes sense, actually. I could see a Corin/killa/??? grouping. Obviously, we both disagree on who'd be the third person - I'd put bogre or Faerie there, you'd put me, Bogre or Manito there, I assume - but it kind of looks right...
You know what, I'm willing to bring more focus onto Killa right now. The FaerieLord lynch clearly isn't going to work, no matter how much evidence I dig up against her. But Killa seven is being scummy in a way nobody can deny.
unvote; vote Killa seven-
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Llama, all Corin has done is lurk, and one-line. Killa seven has lurked, one-lined, and basically steered the forbiddan lynch D1,as well as utterly refusing to post anything of consequence D1.5, apart from "look at the people who voted in the middle of the forbiddan lynch" - which is an attempt to push a policy lynch in my eyes. I would say killa is far more worthy of a lynch than Corin at this time. However, if Killa is scum, I can see a killa/Corin partnership - but until killa is lynched, I'm wary of going anywhere on Corin simply because they could be town with matching aims, and scummy styles.
Would you be willing to vote Killa, on the guarantee that if he flips scum, I will listen to whatever case you want to make against Corin, whose only crime I can see is lurking?-
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Ha. Llama, way to jump the bait. How many times do you need to ask CFR who to vote for?
Poorly worded, I think. Let me clarify that for those of us who can't quite manage five syllables:
I think Killa is scum. I'm also entertaining the idea that he and Corin are matching play-styles deliberately. As we have no pro-town power roles, the only reason for this would be a reverse WIFOM "Killa is lurking, so if I lurk as well, no-one will expect us to work together" as part of the Mafia. When Killa flips scum when lynched, I would seriously consider looking harder at Corin based on the way the both of them kept out of the way of the forbiddan lynch, whilst still pushing it along merrily.
However, I'm also VERY interested in the constant Llama/CFR interplay - it looks like Llama is constantly asking CFR for guidance, see 634 for one good example, and there are other posts through-out the day where Llama seems to be sounding out CFR as to which of his blinkered little Mafia Entente he should push a case on at the moment.
I'm also getting increasingly dismayed by the way both of them are seeking to blinker the town into a mislynch, by refusing to consider any case other than those they've decided to pursue - scummy, in my eyes, because any good town should be willing to be swayed. There have been far better cases against other players this day, yet they choose to pursue rather weak cases, or to pursue Corin for doing exactly what Killa 7 did - oh, but Killa isn't scummy. *rolls eyes*
Note that as soon as CFR began to leave Manito alone and focus on Corin, and dissuading the FaerieLord wagon, Llama did too - and the pair of them went on to look at Corin. Now, as a new case based entirely on... me wording my previous post poorly, emerges, Llama instantly looks to CFR for guidance before considering making a move.
I don't like it. I'd be willing to bet that at least one, but likely both Llama and CFR are scum, and certainly K7 - with CFR and Llama's buddy-plays constantly diverting attention away from him, I get the feeling these two are trying to retain the numbers to make it easier to get the edge over the town late-game, but are finding it increasingly difficult to ignore Killa's scum-tells in open play.-
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Yes. Thank you. Spyrex gets it. Have a cookie.
WHEN THE REVOLUTION COMES, VOTECOUNTS WILL HAVE A VOTE OF THEIR OWN
killa seven - 3 (TheSweatpantsNinja, Firestarter, Knight of Cydonia)
FaerieLord - 3 (Manito, Corinthian, SpyreX)
armlx - 1 (LaptopGun)
Manito - 1 (FaerieLord)
Firestarter - 1 (armlx)
Corinthian - 1 (LlamaFluff)
LaptopGun - 1 (Bogre)
Not Voting - Joubert, killa seven, BlckKnght, CF Riot
15, 8.
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Indeed. Now, right now, I'd rather lynch K7 than your current #1, FaerieLord. I still have a great deal of suspicion surrounding FaerieLord, mainly concerning the way she has completely ignored the complete turn-around I highlighted, but right now I would say K7 is doing more harm than good. The more time he wastes with constant prod requests and virtually empty posts with no meaning, the more damage he does to us, the town. THerefore, I would urge anyone voting FaerieLord, yourself included, to switch to Killa seven. I think he's the one player a majority of the group can agree has been incredibly anti-town and scummy since teh whole forbiddan incident.-
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