Mafia 80: Nice Shot! Mafia. Game over, results at 1381

[Sierra]

Vote BattleMage

for being first on the list, when all townies are obviously holding up on the back of the line.

[Sierra]

vote ChaosOmega

, rather pressure the non poster (we have a couple)...and I am confused what his name means.

vote: curiouskarmadog

Now that I've posted, I am not a non-poster, and you can safely remove your vote.

But you never explained what your name meant. Dodging questions already, eh?

Unvote BM. Vote ChaosOmega.

[Sierra]

Hi guises, totally forgot this one started.

Vote: CKD

Posts make my head hurt.

Battle Mage what's up with you proxying your vote? Proxy your vote to me please?

I also think the random/joke stage has been going on long enough. I don't like how the first thing springlullaby does when he finally pops in is jumping on the largest wagon, even if it's a random one.

Unvote CO. Vote springlullaby.

PS: won't be able to get online the next two days. I'll PM the mod too.

[Sierra]

How would you guys feel about putting everyone, one-by-one, at L-2 for the purpose of info gathering? It might end the random chat faster.

After we lynch musher, goborage is next.

I find this plan very scummy. A townie wouldn't make any assumptions about a second lynch until he finds out the alignment of the first. You could just be joking here. You could not. I can't tell for sure, but it's definitely enough for me to change my vote.

Unvote springlullaby.

Still a

FOS

on her until she stops joking and makes at least a semi-serious post.

Vote elvis_knits.

[Sierra]

How would you guys feel about putting everyone, one-by-one, at L-2 for the purpose of info gathering? It might end the random chat faster.

After we lynch musher, goborage is next.

I find this plan very scummy. A townie wouldn't make any assumptions about a second lynch until he finds out the alignment of the first. You could just be joking here. You could not. I can't tell for sure, but it's definitely enough for me to change my vote.

Unvote springlullaby.

Still a

FOS

on her until she stops joking and makes at least a semi-serious post.

Vote elvis_knits.

I'm not joking, first of all.

I don't think we need to find out musher's allignment to know that goborage's statement was scummy. He basically said "hey, guys, let's massclaim to find the powerroles." That is scummy no matter what allignment musher has. I am not thinking musher or goborage is scummy because of ties to the other. They have each done scummy things on their own in need of attention. Sadly, I cannot vote more than one player at a time, so I said goborage should be lynched next to let him know I think he's scum and to put pressure on him.

To goborage: what did you hope to accomplish by putting everyone at L-2?

I'm satisfied with that elvis_knits's response and her input after that.

Unvote elvis_knits.

I agree that musher asking for information is scummy, but considering that he is a fairly new player (and doesn't even appear to know what a vig or a RB is) I'm not sure whether to label him as scum or as newb townie.

I like my vote better where it was before I voted elvis. Springlullaby still hasn't given any real input yet.

Vote springlullaby.

[Sierra]

BM, are you claiming cop with a guilty on CKD? Or are you just trying to force a unfounded hunch that CKD is scum?

[Sierra]

The extent at which some people in this game are lurking is ridiculous. We should lynch one of them.

Lynching someone just for being a lurker is a bad idea.

I agree with goborage. Pressuring lurkers with some votes in order to get them to talk more is perfectly good play though. On that note, feel free to join me in voting springlullaby.

[Sierra]

The extent at which some people in this game are lurking is ridiculous. We should lynch one of them.

Lynching someone just for being a lurker is a bad idea.

I agree with goborage.

Pressuring lurkers with some votes in order to get them to talk more is perfectly good play though.

On that note, feel free to join me in voting springlullaby.

Still applies.

[Sierra]

Congratulations Coron, in this 14 page thread you've managed to post exactly 23 words. That's almost 2 words per page, quite an achievement!

[Sierra]

This was your post:

Hi guises, totally forgot this one started.

Vote: CKD

Posts make my head hurt.

Battle Mage what's up with you proxying your vote? Proxy your vote to me please?

I also think the random/joke stage has been going on long enough. I don't like how the first thing springlullaby does when he finally pops in is jumping on the largest wagon, even if it's a random one.

Unvote CO. Vote springlullaby.

PS: won't be able to get online the next two days. I'll PM the mod too.

Actually I hadn't yet paid close attention to the votecount then, and it was a half joke, half gut vote; but tell me, care to expound why my jumping on a wagon on my first post warrants a vote? Also, what about the wagon on BM?

Don't like my voting CKD maybe? What about this then?

Unvote, Vote CKD

Can we has a wagon on CKD nao, plox?

I see the first part was serious, but you're still joking when it comes to placing your vote. I can't remember why I didn't answer your question before, but I'll do so now.

Jumping on the largest wagon in your first post is suspicious because you could be attempting to get a quick day-1 bandwagon rolling. The fact that it was a random/joke vote doesn't make it any less suspicious, it might even make it more suspicious because you could be using that as an excuse when having to explain your vote later on.

I don't get the second part of your question. What about the wagon on BM?

[Sierra]

Sierra - What you think of mush?

I don't think he's faking a newbie act. I'm willing to believe his question about what vig and RB meant was genuine. That has me frowning at the people who keep using that as an excuse to attack him, but unfortunately it doesn't tell me anything about mush's alignment. I like elvis's suggestion of mush posting some thoughts on other players to get a better read on him.

[Sierra]

Musher is now at L-2. I think a claim from him would be a good starting point for more discussion, so I'll wait for that.

[Sierra]

It's because I was interested that someone would announce that they WOULD claim if they got to L-2. Seems strange. To have that kind of advance strategy in mind.. but can't figure out the abbreviations for basic roles? That was, and is, strange to me.

Personally..

If

I hardly know what a RB is.. how do I know to claim at L-2? It seems internally inconsistent.

I've seen this kind of strategy before (different website), mostly with beginning players. They would claim at L-2 regardless of how they got there, and some would announce it like Musher did. They would do this both as town and scum though, so my neutral attitude towards Musher hasn't changed.

FOS camn

for using it as an excuse to put his vote back on Musher.

[Sierra]

Mod

, could you prod springlullaby please? It might be because of the weekend, but her last post was 4 days ago.

[Sierra]

care to explain why?

Not really, no.

I'd rather

unvote, vote Riceballtail.

I'm not liking his agrevated reactions to goborage's posts. Bottom post on page 15 is an example of such a reaction.

[Sierra]

My problem is that you are asking us to get back on topic while contributing absolutely nothing and not helping us get back on topic.

vote musher

Wouldnt scum exactly try to get back on topic or not post at all?

Weren't you going to post your reasons for voting Riceballtail today?

[Sierra]

Right,

vote Sierra

Expound on 'not really'. Why aren't you interested in voting me anymore?

I got bored of poking at someone who might not respond for 3 days, so I decided to pick on Riceballtail instead. Don't worry, I'm still watching you.

Weren't you going to post your reasons for voting Riceballtail today?

Im busy. You're voting for him, right? Why dont you start?

Been there, done that:

I'd rather

unvote, vote Riceballtail.

I'm not liking his agrevated reactions to goborage's posts. Bottom post on page 15 is an example of such a reaction.

Now you go. (whenever you can find the time of course )

[Sierra]

On the topic of RBT, he has not made a meaningful post in some time. I still haven't got a satisfactory response and he has not been scum-hunting. If you haven't done so already, I urge you guys to re-read RBT's posts. Don't worry, they're not very long or full of content.

I know but musher needs to die pronto.

We probably don't have enough people active to lynch.

From what I understand, he will be lynched at the deadline anyway. And that deadline is getting pretty close. If the difference between votes on musher and votes on anyone else becomes close, I'll probably vote musher if that other person didn't get a proper chance to defend himself. With RBT being LA, I could see him becoming that other person. He picked a hell of a time to go LA. :/

[Sierra]

Why does xtoxm think RBT is town? Also there are still votes on Musher are people still convinced he is scum and is it for the same reason? We have 4 days of discussion and still need a lynch musher. Eventually some one will do the hammer because a no lynch is bad.

I thought the person with the most votes was lynched if no decision was made by deadline?

Yes.

Selective reading of the first post?

With the current vote count, RBT would be lynched at the deadline (which is only 3 days away). I'm personally fine with that, especially with Xtoxm 'just having the feeling' he's town. I played in a game with Xtoxm before and I don't really trust his gut feeling anymore.

[Sierra]

With the deadline so close and no recent posts by RBT, I'm going to have to

unvote, vote musher

.

[Sierra]

I'm incredibly tempted to immediately vote BM, but since I will be gone from now until sunday night / monday morning, I'll wait until I get back and see how things stand then. (I also notified the mod of my absence)

[Sierra]

I'm back and I've read BM's explanation. I suppose I could imagine how a townie could think he's sure enough of someone being scum to claim cop, although I couldn't imagine myself doing it. Scum faking a townie sure enough of someone being scum to claim cop is one step too far for a fake-claim in my mind. For now, I won't vote BM. Calling yourself a confirmed townie because of this is preposterous though.

I would need to reread before I can decide who to vote and I don't have time for that now, so I'll save it for tomorrow. Meanwhile let me just respond to two posts that I found interesting.

It wouldn't actually be a very elaborate gambit: you're right about Xtoxm = you're practically confirmed for the rest of the game.

The only element worth doubting is are you actually that arrogant in your confidence of your own scumhunting skills to try pull that off.

I think you are, because if it was a town gambit, even if they were that stupid, I think town would have been more honest about screwing up and not tried to do the 'you are all retarded' thing.

I'm thinking you are SK or godfather because both are investigation immune.

I'm also thinking Sierra may be your buddy. Though I have yet to seriously reread.

I would be very interested to hear your explanation for linking me to BM.

I'm in agreement that SK would probably not kill xtoxm and that a vig most likely did. What does everyone think about not lynching BM today and leaving it to our vig?

There are two benefits I can see from this. The first would be that we would get off the WIFOM talk, and second, the vig will have an easy target.

I now realize it would be a waste of a day to quick-lynch BM and that we should get some other discussion going.

unvote

Of course this all depends on there being a vig. If there wasn't and BM lived on then we'd be in the same situation tomorrow.

If we do indeed have a vig, and he's cooperative, it would be cool to direct his NK. We could have two vote tallies and have a reliable claim if he makes it to late-game.

Anyways back to RBT.

@ RBT please reply to post 329. You've been called out by a number of players other than me. It is anti-town not to answer questions directed at you.

I'm not in favour of directing the vig, or directing any power-roles for that matter. In the case of the vig, you have to take into account that there could be a mafia doctor. So by openly deciding who the vig should kill, you're also telling the mafia doc who he should protect. For any power role, I like to think that it's better if the player makes his decisions himself. Votes can be influenced by the mafia, whereas a player's own reasoning is hopefully manipulated far less. I do agree that xtoxm was much more likely killed by a vig than by a SK or mafia by the way.

[Sierra]

Done digging.

I'm going to be on a trip myself this weekend. Leaving Saturday and will be back late Monday.
Something tells me I need to change my vote back to Musher. I think vanilla townie is a soft claim. I'm not a fan of RBT, but something xtoxm is saying tells me what needs to not happen.

unvote:
vote: musher

Mind you xtoxm if you are wrong I will be looking at you next

farside already received some votes day 1 for the scummyness of this post, but in the light of both musher and xtoxm turning up town it makes him look even dirtier.

Vote farside22

[Sierra]

3: Sierra: If you believe BM about his comments and with what happen why would you be voting me with the same logic that you are not voting BM? It is all WIFOM and I thought xtoxm was bread crumbing which BM saw I thought as much and said he wasn't and said he was the cop.

Dealing with WIFOM means imagining what the other person would be thinking and how many steps ahead they were thinking. BM being scum and planning this exact scenario to happen is thinking one step too far ahead. I admit I don't know him too well - I've never been in a game with him before - but I don't give him

that

much credit. This is not the case for your post, where you vote musher and set it up to blame xtoxm. This is only thinking one step ahead, and although it is of course true that this could be an honest mistake by a townie, I think it's more likely a scum's line of thought.

[Sierra]

i could see a Goborage wagon at this point too.

BM

I think RBT is way scummier than Goborage. RBT reacted pretty agressively to accusations on his person day 1. I'm not ready to let go of farside though. I haven't seen many people comment on farside yet. Is anyone even considering voting him?

Mod:

would you prod Anatole Kuragin and Coron please? Coron hasn't posted at all day 2. Anatole posted something like "wow this started already" and hasn't been seen since.

[Sierra]

Sorry, I completely lost track of this game because of the euro. BM doesn't fit as a killer.

So who does? A little more input please.

[Sierra]

camn seems very sure BM is telling the truth. Regardless of BM's role, this could suggest camn is mafia.

FOS camn.

The point raised about BM claiming to want to get night-killed but asking for doc protection is a strong argument. Backtracking to say you were hoping even more to attract a doc protection ánd a night kill does not convince me.

Unvote farside.

I'm getting no support for my vote, because everyone is only focussing on BM's case. It would be better to resolve that first and look back on farside tomorrow. Besides, he's making good contributions to the discussion right now.

Vote BM.

That puts him at L-1.

[Sierra]

I think RBT is way scummier than Goborage.

RBT reacted pretty agressively to accusations on his person day 1.

I'm not ready to let go of farside though. I haven't seen many people comment on farside yet. Is anyone even considering voting him?

Really he thinks RBT is scummier but doesn't point out any reasons why. He did have this case against Goborage why is he so quick to throw that out now that RBT is being looked at?

No reasons? Notice the bolded line. It's not much evidence, but it's more than I have on Goborage.

Vote BM. That puts him at L-1.

After all that defense of BM he puts him at L-1. How much sense does this make. If he really believe BM town wouldn't he do exactly what Camm has done?

unvote:
vote: Sierra

Nice job strawmanning my post. I believe I explained perfectly well why I voted BM, but you decided to leave that out of the quote for some reason. Here's what I said:

The point raised about BM claiming to want to get night-killed but asking for doc protection is a strong argument. Backtracking to say you [BM] were hoping even more to attract a doc protection ánd a night kill does not convince me.

PS, elvis_knits: me = male

[Sierra]

The Sierra wagon interests me, I had suspicions D1, but not much to go with. Seeing others interested encourages me to hop on.

VOTE:Sierra

Post in question:

With the deadline so close and no recent posts by RBT, I'm going to have to

unvote, vote musher

.

Ironically, I disapprove. Even with it being LA, not lurking, this really isn't a good call. This seems quite scummy.

FOS: Sierra

If it wasn't clear why I voted musher, allow me to explain: the two main suspects I had picked at the end of day 1 were RBT and Musher. The deadline was closing in and RBT hadn't claimed yet. Musher had already claimed vanilla. I didn't want to risk lynching a power role without giving him a chance to claim and defend himself. That's why I voted musher, who was potentially scum but worst-case-scenario a vanilla townie.

The point raised about BM claiming to want to get night-killed but asking for doc protection is a strong argument. Backtracking to say you [BM] were hoping even more to attract a doc protection ánd a night kill does not convince me.

PS, elvis_knits: me = male

Why did you let go of your initial feeling? Plus that post is almost like a me too post with others bringing the point forward.

The argument that was brought up (BM wanting to get NKed, but asking for doc protection) weighed heavier than my previous argument (based on WIFOM), so my opinion changed. I don't see how you think that's scummy.

[Sierra]

Apparently, everybody is happy with their vote at the moment. Which would mean 3 days from now BM would be lynched. Anybody not happy with that should be talking more, because I see no good reason to change my vote.

[Sierra]

I believe I explained very clearly why I changed my vote to BM earlier, but I'm not getting any responses or unvotes. Could one of the people voting me explain why, please?

[Sierra]

I just got back from vacation an hour ago, so forgive me if I don't reply today. I want to look back at SL's posts first, so you'll hear from me some time tomorrow.

[Sierra]

I've read up, but I couldn't find any suspicious links from SL to another player. However, during that read I did find populartajo fairly scummy. When Xtoxm and myself were pushing people to vote for SL because she was lurking, he posted:

I think that's really stupid.

It's stupid to bandwagon someone because he hasnt posted, he could be a townie. Dont you suspect anyone? Are you unable to bandwagon someone for his scumyness?

Goborage made a similar post, but I found his better argumented.

Other scummy posts by populartajo:

Hi.
Amused at the nice off topic conversation here.
This day is getting bored, really.

Unvote

Vote : Riceball

Too tired to post reasons. Tomorrow.

But he never posts his reasons. A few pages later he takes his vote off already after RBT explains why he voted musher.

Rice, why did you vote for Musher?

1) I had voted him before, took it off to apply pressure elsewhere, then replaced it.

2) If he has more votes than me, I don't get lynched, a theory known as self-preservation.

populartajo's reasoning:

Not a fan of this RBT wagon.

But you love bandwagons. I dont know why I agree with you, though. His last vote feels sillier than scummy and he has explained in a somehow decent and semifrustrated way. Suspecting his voters isnt compatible with a calculating scum that could have simply made a good case against Musher.

I find this a poor explanation, especially since a few posts later (post 528) he admits RBT has been his top suspect until then.

I could see populartajo and RBT as a scum pair. This was all just day 1 of course. Day 2 he puts BM at L-1. RBT was also on that wagon. At one point populartajo poses BM some questions:

BM your title makes totally sense now.
Hey did anyone thank you for killing our doc?
Claiming vanilla is slightly protown and almost confirms you but let's see some things before.
Rereading and still keeping my vote until you can answer these questions.
1. Why was Xtoxm scum in your book? And I want a decent answer not related to meta.
2. Who killed Xtoxm?
3. You said you wanted to be NKed? Why did you claim cop and why did you ask for doc protection? Did you sincerely think you were going to be NKed?
4. Was it your gambit a coward maneuver to stay in the game?
5. Why do you say your gambit was protown?
6. Who is scum now and why?

BM answers them, but populartajo doesn't go into it any further. That has me thinking he was only asking for the sake of appearing inquisitive, instead of actually trying to help. His last contentfull post is:

BM, fosing everyone who argues with you is looking a little defensive.

I agree about springlullaby though. Why did she start talking about SK and calling you SK? I find mafia much more interested in finding SK's. Also find SK's more interested in calling other people SK's.

unvote; vote springlullaby

People should read before they naturally assume OMGUS. Tajo was being utterly nonsensical, and it was clear that he had slipped. hence my FoS was more than justified.

BM

Maybe you shouldnt post here when you're drunk. Sober up and give this some thought. Then UnFoS accordingly. A player who claims vanilla townie isnt able to claim other role, lets say at the final stages of the game, knowing the big array of possible roles in this setup. That makes that player sligthly confirmed as a vanilla townie, unless BM is lying us again.
Well, BM if your intention was to mess with town then congrats. You have to realize that everyone voting for you ISNT scum.
Bleh, Ill need to reread but thanks to you this game isnt making much sense. I'll bring decent cases later.

Saying he will reread and bring decent cases later seems to be this guy's motto. I find it very scummy.

populartajo never removes his vote from BM, even though his last post suggests he was coming around to his side. RBT unvotes late in the day and later switches to voting me. These two people have skipped all the way to the top of my list of scummy people, some measure above farside even. I would prefer to see populartajo lynched, but I would be content with a RBT-lynch also, if there is no support for the first.



In other news: I see farside and RBT are voting for me. I would like to defend myself, but I feel I already answered to all accusations made by you on day 2. If you're expecting me to answer any questions, please check back to see if I didn't answer them already and repeat them if you feel I didn't adequately reply already.

[Sierra]

I might as well

vote populartajo

while waiting for replies.

Mod:

would you prod killa seven and W!nt3r please? I don't think they noticed day 3 started.

[Sierra]

What do people think of my case on populartajo?

[Sierra]

so nobody is going to join me onto a CKD wagon?

CKD, what about you?

BM

Were you planning on actually supplying arguments as to why CKD is scum any time soon? 'Cause I'm not seeing the scummyness in him and it looks like you're fooling around more than being helpful at the moment.

[Sierra]

FOS BM

I'm still contemplating whether this was you having fun or you delibirately trying to slow the game down.

[Sierra]

In your last 10 posts or so you've said nothing substantial except "CDK is scum" without any argumentation. When I ask you to explain yourself you only say "I'm pretty sure I already did" when I'm pretty sure you didn't. It looks to me like you're only trying to derail the thread from any useful discussions about people like populartajo, RBT, or even CDK if you like (but at least bring a decent case then).

[Sierra]

Is that all you're going to say after these accusations against you?

RBT is my 2nd choice for a lynch, but since I seem to be the only one seeing populartajo as worth voting, I'll probably be switching my vote to RBT within 48 hours from now.

[Sierra]

I don't think we'll get any further with this day, so I'm ready to end it. It would be nice though if Alabaska shared some more of his thoughts on the game, since he just reread the whole thing. I'll be hammering RBT 8 hours from now, if Alabaska doesn't post by then I guess we'll just wait until day 4.

[Sierra]

Time's up.

Unvote, vote Riceballtail

[Sierra]

There are plenty of roles that are bulletproof or can prevent a night kill:

• Doctor
  
  
• Hider
  
• Mafia Doctor
  
• Mafia Godfather
  
• Mafia Goon
  
• Roleblocker
  
• Serial Killer

Either both mafia and vig/sk targeted a hider, or at least two of these roles are still around. I doubt Adel would put two pro-town doctors in, so I scratched that one from the list.

I'm still most suspicious of populartajo and BattleMageII. A little more of BM now than of pop, because of the way he completely ignored the RBT discussion yesterday.

Alabaska J, would you share your thoughts on the game please?

[Sierra]

I'm sorry, are you seriously trying to tell me that you think someone QUIETLY REFRAINING from a mislynch is scummy? 0.o
I swear i had this discussion very recently in another game (cant reference- ongoing). Scum DO NOT QUIETLY HIDE OFF MISLYNCHES. If a scumbag can avoid running up a townie, they'll make a big song and dance about it, in order to earn themselves credibility. What the hell would be the point of mafia not contributing to a mislynch, and not gaining any townie points in return?

Shocking...

BM

I suppose you're right about that, but I can't see why a townie would 'quietly refrain' from a lynch either. I would like you to explain why you didn't even mention RBT in any of your posts, even when he was at L-1. And how did you feel about it at that time?

Vote: CKD.

Reasons, later.

Reasons, NOW. You do this postponing all the time and in most cases the explanation never follows unless you're pressured into it. Stop doing that. I suppose you must have had reasons for suspecting CKD, or you wouldn't vote him. It shouldn't take that much time adding a few lines to your post to explain those suspicions.

About this Camn vs CKD discussion. I'm liking Camn's case much better than CKD's. CKD's posts reek of OMGUS. I'll read back on some of his posts before I decide if it's worth a vote.

[Sierra]

I don't think I'll have time for a proper reread until thursday, sorry. You'll hear from me then.

[Sierra]

I don't think I'll have time for a proper reread until thursday, sorry. You'll hear from me then.

Make that friday.

[Sierra]

Sorry about my absence, I've had a busy week. I've read up now.

CKD's claim has a lot of holes in it, as Camn pointed out. I'll be happy to vote him, but I wouldn't want to end the day before K7 and Gobo have had their say in things. Also, it would be nice if BM answered my earlier question:

I'm sorry, are you seriously trying to tell me that you think someone QUIETLY REFRAINING from a mislynch is scummy? 0.o
I swear i had this discussion very recently in another game (cant reference- ongoing). Scum DO NOT QUIETLY HIDE OFF MISLYNCHES. If a scumbag can avoid running up a townie, they'll make a big song and dance about it, in order to earn themselves credibility. What the hell would be the point of mafia not contributing to a mislynch, and not gaining any townie points in return?

Shocking...

BM

I suppose you're right about that, but I can't see why a townie would 'quietly refrain' from a lynch either. I would like you to explain why you didn't even mention RBT in any of your posts, even when he was at L-1. And how did you feel about it at that time?

As for farside voting me, I can see how you could think SL and me were distancing. Although not based on much, my accusations were genuine. This is not very concrete evidence and I don't see how you think this is scummier than CKD's claim.

[Sierra]

I figured camn was the cop which explain why I kept protecting her. Too bad I got shot by the vig. Ouch!

I shot both docs..
It was really a coin toss between you and BMII. I thought BMII was scum, but you pushing for my lynch so hard that day had me thinking you were mafia thinking I was vig or SK and you tried to lynch me out of your way. If only I had stuck with BMII.

I liked this game a lot. A semi-open setup like this should definitely be used more often. Thanks for modding, Adel! The only thing I didn't like this game was BM's play. His townie gamble at the end of day 1 turned out really bad for town and is not something I would have done, but it's a valid strategy of course so no complaints there. However, replacing out of a game as a scum tactic is really low and IMO should not even be allowed. Not only does it ruin the concept of the game where you're supposed to be able to catch people on inconsistencies in their play, but it puts an unnecessary burden on the mod too.