Large Normal 238 | Weiqi, Baduk, Go | Endgame

[VP Baltar]

Oh hello 13 pages. Is this game serious already?

[VP Baltar]

sheep me on Wu VP. saves u from reading

Sure, what did Wu do?

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: general wu

[VP Baltar]

Oh hello 13 pages. Is this game serious already?

19 people.

Are you no duhing me?

[VP Baltar]

Uhhh. I’m not sure.

Why did you respond '19 people'?

[VP Baltar]

Furthermore, in the bottom of 266, they treat me like they know I am town.

Can you give me specifics of what you're seeing there?

[VP Baltar]

Hi datisi!

I have good news and I have bad news.

[VP Baltar]

Hi datisi!

I have good news and I have bad news.

hi baltar!!

give me the good news first, i'm in need of some right now.

Good news is I'm town!

[VP Baltar]

baltar, this cliffhanger sucks, 1/10

Sorry, I had work shit.

Bad news is I'm ascetic.

[VP Baltar]

It's not that bad of news, but seems like a scarlet letter I should disclose early.

[VP Baltar]

do you gave any of those thoughts on the game? you've been pretty lowkey so far

I haven't read the game yet and likely won't get a chance to until late today. I was sleepy sleeping when it started and I have a lot of work to do today.

So I have no thoughts of substance to add yet.

[VP Baltar]

I think we should consolidate on one of HEM/Tenebro to push pressure and advance game state rather than splitting

Isn't town's biggest power early in large games driving dueling wagons? That's how you get good info for future use. Why do you think we should focus on one and not the other here?

[VP Baltar]

because I want to kill bad people

Same same.

But killing baddies AND getting info to kill more baddies is where it is at, imo.

Consolidation on two wagons for pressure when done right is more powerful than a single target and lots of scattered mini wagons

[VP Baltar]

I just finished reading through page 10, so I'm still in catch up. Here is kind of what I have for reads out of that so far:


Town:

Frogsterking

- early attack on Yeet over game delay is tinfoil I'd expect from town FK

Yeet

- wild noob read after wild noob read. Somewhat question if Yeet is not an alt though, in which case maybe this means nothing.

fireisredsir

- has independent thought, calling out post 116 as bad is good. Also seems to not mind poking people, which I appreciate.

skitter30

- Kind of like their pressure on Datisi, but think the over defense of tenesbro is unwarranted. This is probably closer to a null read than a townread in terms of confidence, but I like that she is mixing it up.

Cape90

- probably town for finding frogster town and asking pretty open questions.

Ari

- I like her pressure and vote on monkey when he was being kind of ridiculous.


Null:

DeasVail

- commenting, but not doing a ton. Maybe lean townish.


Scum:

fua

- I find the hard scum read of tenesbro a little contrived, and possibly piling on to a popular opinion in thread.

monkey

- The whole intereaction with ari looks like monkey got over confident with a poke and couldn't explain the position.

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: monkey for now as my first serious vote.

[VP Baltar]

I scumread Tenebro hard based on 116 and the attempt to defuse suspicion by essentially saying it’s just a bandwagon

I don't remember doing this. What do you mean?

“I’m so popular, everyone is looking at me” is basically a degradation of the reason to actually suspect you and dismisses it as a trend rather than a veritable case.

I am not sure how you got that idea from what I wrote, but okay.

It would be difficult for me to think any case against me had merit when I know it to be wrong.

Yes, but I would think you would at least go and defend your position or acknowledge the votes on you. Your playstyle so far has been very dismissive and I find that that typically comes from scum.

Fua looks objectively terrible in this exchange, and isn't even scumreading Tenesbro's 116 for the correct reason (which is that reads like pocketing of Yeet.)

[VP Baltar]

If you’re town your goal is to not be voted for.

no

[VP Baltar]

like, what's your idea here? that scum!me panicked, made a random vote that i had no idea how to justify because i thought i wouldn't get asked about it?? then when, surprise, did get asked about it, i only then started thinking about a justification?? like you know better than this...

I don't think that's an unreasonable argument for skitter to make fwiw. Something of that nature is much more likely to happen in pages 2-3 than it is to happen in pages 52-53.

Not sure I fully agree it makes you scum here, but I don't think skitter is being that unreasonable because your vote did seem a little BS in its level of certitude.

[VP Baltar]

The feeling when you keep getting closer to being caught up, but you're not and every time you get to a new page, there is a new page added to the game.

It hurts.

[VP Baltar]

even the "absence" and "ghosting" that she claims i did was another one of those accusations you make as scum because you have nothing else as ammo.

dude, it's been barely a day.

who is scum?

[VP Baltar]

Yeet - wild noob read after wild noob read. Somewhat question if Yeet is not an alt though, in which case maybe this means nothing.

I am not sure what this entire sentence means.

I am alt of an account that I would prefer not to disclose. I have played a few games on this site. I don't believe I've played with anyone here, unless I one of them is/has an alt that I played with.

It means I think your takes on the games so far are kind of bad, but also wholesome and I don't think you are scum.

[VP Baltar]

I scumread Tenebro hard based on 116 and the attempt to defuse suspicion by essentially saying it’s just a bandwagon

I don't remember doing this. What do you mean?

“I’m so popular, everyone is looking at me” is basically a degradation of the reason to actually suspect you and dismisses it as a trend rather than a veritable case.

I am not sure how you got that idea from what I wrote, but okay.

It would be difficult for me to think any case against me had merit when I know it to be wrong.

Yes, but I would think you would at least go and defend your position or acknowledge the votes on you. Your playstyle so far has been very dismissive and I find that that typically comes from scum.

Fua looks objectively terrible in this exchange, and isn't even scumreading Tenesbro's 116 for the correct reason (which is that reads like pocketing of Yeet.)

How is it objectively terrible? What am I supposed to do instead? I brought new ideas to the table regarding Tenebro because he's a genuine scumread of mine. I think recent posts show that he's a little more likely to be noob town including Wu's opinion on him, so I'd like to see how you find it scummy.

You accused him of saying something he didn't say in the post you referenced. He asks for an explanation, then you doubled down on it anyway when it was clear you misread the game or at the very least misstated what you were saying.

That's not genuine interaction. My read of it is you saw a semi-popular target and piled on with contrived reasons.

[VP Baltar]

If you’re town your goal is to not be voted for.

no

Do you think this statement from fua has alignment implications?

I've already stated why I think fua is scummy and it wasn't for that. So no, that's just a silly thing to say.

[VP Baltar]

Scorpious, are you caught up on the game now?

[VP Baltar]

I want Yeet and Fire and Scorpious and Nordom dead

I highly doubt all the scum are fluff posting. This seems to be the only criteria you are looking at in your hunting. You're better than this!

[VP Baltar]

I want Yeet and Fire and Scorpious and Nordom dead

I highly doubt all the scum are fluff posting. This seems to be the only criteria you are looking at in your hunting. You're better than this!

Except for Fire there I guess, but fire is good posting, so that's like clearly wrong.

[VP Baltar]

why do you think ari and i are tvt? i came out of that scumreading ari.

so you think ari and datisi are scum buddies here? idgi

[VP Baltar]

How has Yeet's takes been bad? His TvT with Ari and Monkey read was good.

I see you also enjoy bad takes.

[VP Baltar]

Does scum-reading two players equate to having to team them, especially this early in the game?

uh...

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: Datisi

I feel jittery about this slot’s opening posts.

Bad take.

Frogsterking is confirmed town to me. I will not accept any vote on Frogsterking.

Town read frog here, sure maybe. confirmed town? bad take

Save the Dragons is also town.

based on what? bad take

After readinf 71 multiple times, i actually dont think i got any clarity from it >.>

Why is it more believeable that me/dats would townbin you than for yeet to do the same thing?

~

Nai = non alignment indicative

In other words i'm saying what dats has done thus far is neither townie nor scummy for him

skitter30, I don’t believe you are being consistent in your explanation.

I don’t believe that you would say that you’re not sure why people think Datisi is scum when you know exactly how he plays and believe this to be his town self.

You are assuming that we know him implicitly there. We do not know Datisi, so why would you expect us to have the same opinion on him with your knowledge?

You would’ve simply said that Datisi’s posts are “NAI”, without the part where you’re “not sure why people dislike him”.

It doesn’t make sense, it’s not a real read, and your approach to this whole thing feels like it’s not coming from a genuine solving headspace - rather it was feeble attempt to provide content and you felt the urge to white knight him.

Vote: skitter30

lol voting skitter for going after dats when you say you're scumreading dats? I don't even know what to make of that.

“yes and no. i'm used to there being meme wagons on me early game, especially from people that don't really know me.“

Datisi do you think I am meme-pushing you? Is that why you feel rather unaffected by my push on you? I can assure you that I am not memeing with this push on you.

again not reading the thread well. bad take.

Not saying everything Yeet has done is bad or noob, but there is a lot of nonsense in that iso.

[VP Baltar]

How has Yeet's takes been bad? His TvT with Ari and Monkey read was good.

I agree with this post. I’m a bit wary of anyone dismissing Yeet’s opinions as bad or newb. I think there are some errors of comprehension here and there, just as we all are prone to, but a lot of the thought processes have actually resonated quite strongly with me.

whoops forgot to quote the post I was responding to.

Which of Yeet's thought processes have resonated with you?

[VP Baltar]

I'm caught up!

[VP Baltar]

Okay VPB you think I’m bad/noob - what does my alignment have to do with me being an alt or not?

If you were more experienced I'd be more suspicious you have an agenda with something like that putrid skitter vote.

[VP Baltar]

Yeah, no I get it. "Well, there's a scum team, so naturally scum reads means the two reads have to be teamed". My point is this early in the game you can scum read two people and the thought of "Well, they're teamed" doesn't have to be a necessity.

I can see where you are coming from in the sense that we have zero information to go on and a person could be hunting various potential options at this point.

However, datisi is who HEM is voting, and he had like a 10 page spat with Ari. Those aren't exactly mild potential reads and if he isn't at least considering them on a team with that level of reads, then I have serious questions how those reads make sense.

[VP Baltar]

And yes, I can scumread both skitter and Datisi (at the time) but argue skitter is more likely to be scum in a world where Datisi is town. I am nowhere near confident enough yet to starting solving the whole scumteam, and I don’t think anyone should be really. One of My goals today is to find at least one person today who I think is a >rand elimination.

You don't have to solve the whole scum team for it to not make sense. At that point, I believe you were still having datisi as your top scum read. You then went after skitter for going after datisi because of semantics or whatever.

It's a bit grabbing at straws, but I don't think there was malice on your part so it's whatever.

I'm not trying to diminish your play or tell you how to play the game. You do you. It's just the kind of grabbing at the next shiny thing less experienced players sometimes do without thinking "does this make sense with how I was feeling previously about other players in the game".

[VP Baltar]

VPB, what is your read on Datisi? You don’t mention it in readslist but I do see you taking issue with my early scumread of him.

Null right now. I thought skitter had some fair points datisi was being overly defensive about, but that could also be NAI.

[VP Baltar]

Nordom, who is scum?

Uh, Daitisi I guess, but I'm waiting for them respond.

Datisi is asleep for several more hours I think

[VP Baltar]

VP, is it your usual modus opreandi to give out early reads like you did as town?

The game is 28 pages...is that early reads?

Overall, I find it helpful when I have a big catch up like that to take notes and sort how I feel about people. I just decided to post my hip-shot notes in thread. I wouldn't take most of those as set in stone right now, since as you can see there are a number of people I didn't get strong enough reactions from to even list.

What do you think about my sorts and how do they align with yours?

[VP Baltar]

It is interesting that Datisi is pretty much universally very unpopular today (except in Aristeia’s eyes, but I worry she may be biased. Nevertheless I am still keeping her opinion very much in mind because I presume she knows him well).

Is he normally this unpopular at gamestart?

Huh? I don't think datisi is universally unpopular.

[VP Baltar]

Well, for me personally I don't like committing to alignment reads unless I'm sure certain. But, I can see the logic in a player taking slip-shod notes as they re-read.

I don't mind changing my reads if something shifts for me.

Can you answer my question about your assessment of my reads and how they align with yours?

[VP Baltar]

Actually, I'm not too sold on fua being outright scum either

Who do you have as scum again?

[VP Baltar]

I think we should mount the pressure on Datisi sooner rather than later.

Being real with you, it's unlikely I ever support a D1 Datisi wagon.

[VP Baltar]

Actually, I'm not too sold on fua being outright scum either

Who do you have as scum again?

Daitsi, as I said. Was it easy to miss my reply a page ago or what?

That's it? Hmmmm

[VP Baltar]

What's the bullet point case on datisi again?

[VP Baltar]

Datisi pressured monkey? I honestly felt like he didn't take a strong position on that exchange.

I could be missing something because I was getting somewhat Corso eyed toward the end of my catchup

[VP Baltar]

It was literally implied in the way he went about it. Of course he didn't say it verbatim, but with the tone and manner of which it was gone about he might as well have.

That doesn't sound made up at all. A thing that wasn't said in thread and that no one but you saw.

[VP Baltar]

Datisi pressured monkey? I honestly felt like he didn't take a strong position on that exchange.

I could be missing something because I was getting somewhat Corso eyed toward the end of my catchup

Well, he didn't take a hard-stance in outright calling him scum, but he certainly felt the need to give little "snacks for thought" regarding monkey without committing himself fully.

That doesn't seem like pressuring monkey as you say. When datisi pressures people, it's quite clear

[VP Baltar]

Pressure, throwing shade, what does it matter?

Well, those aren't the same thing for one....

[VP Baltar]

I think him not mentioning where he stands on GeneralWu is a little weird considering he's been one of the most controversial out so far today

How is general wu the most controversial today? Nero talked about him fluff posting a lot, which is pretty whatever.

Not sure how that is controversial.

Wu is is my giant null pile with lots of other people who haven't done much that is AI

[VP Baltar]

If Datisi's replies in a satisfactory manner, I'm switching my vote to VP.

Haha OK. Make sure you announce it so it looks natural

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: fua

[VP Baltar]

You haven't noted Wu, who has been this game's popular lynch and push of the game.

Why do you keep saying this when it is not true? Do you think wu is scum btw?

[VP Baltar]

what is a pretty open question? What does that read even mean?

I mean open minded questions. You don't seem to have an agenda in what you're asking, more trying to determine why people are doing the things they are doing.

[VP Baltar]

If Datisi's replies in a satisfactory manner, I'm switching my vote to VP.

Also why dont you like vp?

I'm not one to discount a player to give preliminary reads on a re-read, but his reads were just too safe. There's nothing aggressive about them, other than projecting him as a "well-meaning" town player.

What was safe about them?

[VP Baltar]

Malcolm is a strong TR

Why?

[VP Baltar]

Datisi night actualky be scum, though. I need to look at that slot again.

What made you post this?

[VP Baltar]

Nordom is playing. There is clear activity, and lots of asking questions of other players, but most of these actually appear rather pointless.

Hard agree on this. That and him using people's level of discussion of General Wu as his main metric for scumreading people is weird.

If wu did flip red, I'd be looking at Wu as TMIing there.

[VP Baltar]

Malcolm is a strong TR

Why?

He's bringing new ideas to the table and actually seems reasonable, which is a bit of a rarity right now.

Which new ideas?

[VP Baltar]

Datisi night actualky be scum, though. I need to look at that slot again.

What made you post this?

I said I disagreed with her scumreads which I thought were wrong, went back to check if she was SRing anyone else and noticed she was voting Datisi.

You didn't remember that skitter was going after datisi?

[VP Baltar]

- i additionally dislike fua, nero, eyes

Why Nero tho?

[VP Baltar]

but how do you know that? Have we played b4? I think that fluff posting in lieu of content is a pretty scummy thing to do, no? I mean maybe you could make the argument that I'm not very good and I can only spot low-level scumplay.

I think maybe we have played before? Or maybe I've meta read a game you were in, idk. I'm aware of who you are at least and my impression of your reputation is that you know how to play mafia.

I don't disagree with you that fluff posting is a thing to consider when scum hunting. There is a decent amount of it this game. What I'm saying is that it is pretty unlikely that ALL the scum are doing that, and that seems to be the only criteria you are seriously looking at .

Another difficulty there is sorting the town fluff from the scum fluff.

[VP Baltar]

@baltar, is there a reason why you did not include me in the early readslist? i see you have a null category, and pretty sure i had posted at the time

I started with the full list of names at the start of my catch up and was slotting them into those piles as I was going along and getting feelings one way or the other. So while I had a null category, by the time I finished read I was kind of tired and didn't feel like writing out WHY I felt null on a bunch of people still (including you), I just knew I wasn't ready to make an alignment call on those people yet.

[VP Baltar]

Overall, I find it helpful when I have a big catch up like that to take notes and sort how I feel about people. I just decided to post my hip-shot notes in thread.

I don't mind changing my reads if something shifts for me.

...

I think we should mount the pressure on Datisi sooner rather than later.

Being real with you, it's unlikely I ever support a D1 Datisi wagon.

... (but louder this time)

What's this supposed to mean? I'm not following

[VP Baltar]

i was expecting you'd at least catch that the second one is meant to ask "what/how/why?"

the first one is me wondering whether you've been studying guardians and are trying to purposefully drop as many things that you know i consider towntells from you as you can

On why I wouldn't vote you: I think if you're town, you're a huge asset so it is nonsense to lim you early game. If you're scum, that is likely to get sorted by night actions, or the number of people in this game who can read you correctly more often than not. So yeah, pretty anti-D1 dats lim unless there was an EXTREMELY compelling case.

On the notes, vote changing. It did occur to me when I posted my notes that if I was scum I would totally do that to subliminally get you on my side because of Guardians, so you probably should disregard that as a towntell going forward. What I said in Guardians is true...I take notes as town, especially on catch ups, and talk in the PT as scum, but we explicitly talked about that in Guardians so it is entirely WIFOM at this point.

[VP Baltar]

I should probably give nordom a good look this afternoon now that he is getting some pressure. I didn't love his interactions with me, but also considered I was just being annoyed with him after a long catch up.

Hey Datisi, what are your thoughts on what I said about fua while I have you here?

[VP Baltar]

so i'm not yet openwolfing hard enough for you to consider yeeting me? noted

it's not just that, it's also the usage of "hip-shot" wording (yes, in fact, i am aware that suspecting someone for reusing a phase they once used in a game of mafia like a year ago is bonkers, shut the fuck up), and the fact you made sure to say the word "notes" twice

and it's like

if you're scum, obviously you want me to townread you. but, you know that those tiny bits of my "things that town!vp does" list won't help you because we both know they're on that list. bUT ALSO, you know that i know that. so now i'm like, would scum!baltar purposefully drop these little hints, *knowing* that i'm gonna notice them and start losing sleep over them, in order to get into my head?

because i know how much you wanna fool me, but my issue is, like, in the times when i first noticed you doing these tells, they felt more natural. like it made sense for you to bring up notes at the time in oligarchy or guardians because you were catching up on a lot. but here, they were mentioned in the context of a readslist from a half-shitposty first 10 pages of a game. and the "changing votes" thing, originally they were said with much more confidence and self-assurance that i've noticed town!baltar has, while here they just feel said to make sure they've been said

The word hipshot is a thing you think is townie? You're weird.

Anyhow, I'm not sure if there is a question here, and your paranoia is inducing my paranoia that you being paranoid of me is a thing that you know I expect from town you, but I know that you know that, so.....

[VP Baltar]

I didn't think Daitsi would expose themselves so easily in going for the popular lynch once again.

Are you going to vote me yet?

[VP Baltar]

It started when Deas voted for me. My initial thought was "Oh, okay maybe this is just a mis-informed effort post by town"

But, when I started thinking about it, it feels like maf trying to cut me off at the pass before I can make any possible move towards them. Deas came out with that post after I repeatedly gave comments that were questioning them. I honestly feel like he was trying to pocket me, but saw it wouldn't be so easy and decided to take the initiative in voting me first.

Are you talking about datisi or deasvail?

[VP Baltar]

if you're scum, obviously you want me to townread you. but, you know that those tiny bits of my "things that town!vp does" list won't help you because we both know they're on that list. bUT ALSO, you know that i know that. so now i'm like, would scum!baltar purposefully drop these little hints, *knowing* that i'm gonna notice them and start losing sleep over them, in order to get into my head?

lmao, this is like a day 6 endgame level paranoia and we're only 36 hours in. the legends are true...

lol

[VP Baltar]

There's so many people I want gone today. Datisi/DeasVail/fireisredsir/maybe VP Baltar

why fire?

Also, I thought I was higher on the list. Do you suspect fire more than me? If yes, what changed from last night?

[VP Baltar]

@Nord - I'm confused how this Deasvail stuff became your focus.

Also, it takes no effort to be considerate of other people, and you're being a jerk, nord. The people you've insulted so far are cool people who just want to play a game and have fun. It'd be good for you to consider that. We can certainly have a heated game of mafia and argue, but if someone asks you politely not to cross a line, just show a little respect, same as you would if you're talking to someone face to face. I don't think people are attacking you, so there's no need to get defensive about it. They want you to be in this game and to play. They're just asking for mutual respect.

[VP Baltar]

Ok, anyhow, moving on...

I haven’t been keeping tabs on the case on you because I’ve been kind of tunneled and focused on a few other players to the point where I just forgot what I thought of you. You hadn’t posted in a while so other people were more prevalent.

Where is your head at currently with your scum reads? I have a hard time tracking who you actually want to lim.

[VP Baltar]

it's weird how a page 40-something readslist feels like a very early game one, but whatever

closer to the left edge you are, more i townread you
closer to the right edge you are, more i scumread you
higher up you are, the bigger the headache you give me

Spoiler:

oof on that VP read and Scorpious read. The rest I can kind of get.

[VP Baltar]

do you think i should be townreading you?

obviously.

[VP Baltar]

oof on that VP read and Scorpious read. The rest I can kind of get.

why's scorpio get a specific call-out? "slightly town of null but non-headache-y" seems like a pretty unassuming spot for him to go. and i don't think you've made any comments about sorting scorp yourself

I don't see how anyone could have a read on Scorpious that is above null given they haven't actually done anything this game and when they do appear it is useless. While you're correct I haven't publicly commented on Scorpious, I was concerned toward the end of my catch up that they were just kind of fluff posting and no one was paying attention.

I tried to engage Scorpious to better suss out how I was feeling about them, but they never replied.

Scorpious, are you caught up on the game now?

[VP Baltar]

do you think i should be townreading you?

obviously.

let me rephrase that: do you think that your play so far this game would be townread by towntisi? (inb4 "r u calling urself scum" yes, i know the question implies i'm mafia, i don't know how else to ask it, shut up)

lol, I have no clue what penetrates your paranoia about me if I'm being realistic.

I do think me calling out nord's nonsense while you weren't here is not something I'd probably do if I was scum, from your perspective, (and really is only likely to come from town!VP since I don't even know yet how I feel about you truly) but I don't know what goes on in that head of yours. Hipshots!

[VP Baltar]

it is unfortunate Dats views the world through the lens of cautious paranoia but its also kind of endearing <3

in 90% of cases, yes.

That LimLo in Guardians was excruciating!

[VP Baltar]

Is that good enough for you?

Gives me something to evaluate yes. I definitely think if you're town, we see the game extremely differently. But I'll stress test this later today after I finish some work.

[VP Baltar]

TBF, he IS reading the game b/c I keep seeing his name online

Yeah I am, but I prefer posting when I have a computer.

Beetlejuice uh oh

[VP Baltar]

- i additionally dislike fua, nero, eyes

Why Nero tho?

Dont like his pushes/trajectories, particularly on wu and yeet

Do you have experience with Nero? I'm not sure if this is just normal for him or this stands out

[VP Baltar]

Sigh....I kind of like fua for this exchange with fire.

Also I think Malcom is town.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: HEM

Maybe the best approach here is dueling HEM and Wu wagons since that seems to be a divide that is shaping up and I could see a world where either flips scum.

[VP Baltar]

Votes only until we get to E-1s!

Gogogogogogo

[VP Baltar]

Pedit one or two incidental games. Or in other words, i'm not using meta for this one

rude. Also, it's been 3, 2 scum, and 1 town and you tunneled me each game so...

[VP Baltar]

Shit, I forgot frogster was even in this game.

[VP Baltar]

Also, VOTE: fua

Vote Wu or HEM

[VP Baltar]

Also, VOTE: fua

Vote Wu or HEM

Nah I prefer fua + Yeet

Not on the table. Let's get these wagons up. Make your pick

[VP Baltar]

who is even defending you

Loled

[VP Baltar]

who is even defending you

You (somewhat).
I do have to think about this though.

lets not forget Skitter and Ari and VP in a way

Wtf are you talking about? I have not come to wu's defense at all that I'm aware of

[VP Baltar]

Perhaps I am able to ascertain why you'd think that. You may have a point.

VOTE: Dragons

Vote Wu or HEM.

Large games should consolidate D1 as fast as possible or we will end up at 100+ pages for D1 and that's just annoying later in the game.

[VP Baltar]

I don't want to right now. If you want me to consider a popular vote target, wait for Nordom's replacement.

That's not Wu or HEM.

Large games are about compromise early on and moving things forward. We will get more info out of running up these Jabronis than we will out of you single voting dragons.

Be a team player!

[VP Baltar]

You....aren't the only person I'm cajoling.

Also, nordom isn't in this game anymore

[VP Baltar]

Why did you change votes from dragon to nordom there?

[VP Baltar]

Also, nordom isn't in this game anymore

but he can still vote the nord slot and math and whoever is gonna rep in can defend.

As someone who wants Wu dead, you shouldn't be arguing with me here.

[VP Baltar]

who is even defending you

You (somewhat).
I do have to think about this though.

lets not forget Skitter and Ari and VP in a way

Wtf are you talking about? I have not come to wu's defense at all that I'm aware of

Still want an answer to this btw. When did I defend wu?

[VP Baltar]

When did I defend wu?

I feel like like attacked me for pushing only fluff posters (which isn't even an accurate portrayal of events) it was a blanket defense of Wu hence why I said "in a way" dunno what 1208 is supposed to mean.

That's fairly absurd to read as "VP was sort of defending wu" when really what I was doing was saying you were using a pretty lazy lens to assess scumminess.

And what I mean by 1208 is that I am pushing a Wu or HEM yeet, so you would think you wouldn't be encouraging people to vote elsewhere when your preferred yeet has a 50% chance of happening.

[VP Baltar]

What in the world

[VP Baltar]

Math, if you're trying to mimic House's play in our last game, you're not doing a good job.

[VP Baltar]

dayvig:mathblade

dayvig:mathblade

VOTE: Nerocain

After my flip.

You don’t dayvig a mason and live

Oh shoot.
(Pun somewhat intended )

Are you just thread lurking?

[VP Baltar]

Math, if you're trying to mimic House's play in our last game, you're not doing a good job.

The last person I would ever fucking mimic is House.

That is all I wanna say about House ever

Why in the hell would you claim now then? The wagon on you is clearly about your predecessor being obnoxious.

You can understand why I think this is fake.

[VP Baltar]

dayvig:mathblade

dayvig:mathblade

VOTE: Nerocain

After my flip.

You don’t dayvig a mason and live

Oh shoot.
(Pun somewhat intended )

Are you just thread lurking?

No.

You aren't voting or scumhunting and you appear at weord times, so you can see where I'm coming from.

BTW, why aren't you voting?

[VP Baltar]

No I clearly don’t because D1 mason claiming as scum is Suicide

Lol literally quoting House now but ok. I'll take you at your word I guess even though I find your play here extremely poor. This will get resolved one way or another.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: GeneralWu

[VP Baltar]

What was monkey saying in the PT when he was getting run up?

[VP Baltar]

HEM dropped in a bit aggressively, Ari posted a readslist where he was at the bottom, and he asked her to elaborate on all of them.

Yes, and HEM was flipping a shit somewhat unprompted when Ari asked for clarification. His overreaction to that whole situation was why he got run up. It read as scum misreading and overreacting to the intent of a question.

[VP Baltar]

What in the world

scum balter was all like "what do I do?!?"

Oh yeah, I'm stunlocked by math not understanding the physics of the current gamestate and claiming unprompted.

Quality.

[VP Baltar]

Does anyone disagree with that summary?

I don't think this is a good assessment.

I also don't think we should yeet datisi on D1. Happy to kill Wu from your PoE though.

[VP Baltar]

Why do you think this is not a good assessment?

Because that is not why those wagons shifted. The HEM wagon emerged out of him being belligerent in a fight with Ari that he started and she accelerated. This is clear of you'd read the game.

And your wagon wasn't even really a wagon as far as I'm concerned. Nord made a bunch of bad points and then acted like an asshole and people were voting him after he was already being replaced. I didn't love that wagon, but it was also certainly so late it is clear it was not legitimately meant to distract from datisi or Wu.


As far as why I wouldn't yeet Datisi on D1, I explained this already, but datisi is a strong asset when town and he will get resolved either through night actions or by giving himself away to a bunch of players in this game with a lot of experience with him. I'm not worried about trying to solve datisi that much on D1 and your VC case is not convincing given it grossly misunderstands the context around the VC.

I do think it would be helpful if you would read the game when you have a chance.

You can also vote Wu if you aren't going to do that.

Pedit - beat me to it

[VP Baltar]

Mathblade already claimed by the time Nero fake claimed, though. This feels like another cheap gotcha.

I am feeling Nero scum IF Wu is.

This feels like bad bus.

Was just about to say this. Check when I was trying to get Nero to vote wu after he was going on all game about how scummy Wu was. Nero didn't have the guts to vote him when it counted.

[VP Baltar]

Mathblade already claimed by the time Nero fake claimed, though. This feels like another cheap gotcha.

I am feeling Nero scum IF Wu is.

This feels like bad bus.

Was just about to say this. Check when I was trying to get Nero to vote wu after he was going on all game about how scummy Wu was. Nero didn't have the guts to vote him when it counted.

told u guys VP was scum

Vote Wu and stop being a coward. Prove me wrong.

[VP Baltar]

- i tr tene p strongly

I still don't quite understand how you have had such a strongnTR there

[VP Baltar]

I thought I was going to be able to catch up to the 9 pages added overnight, but then I had two hours of work to do and there were six more pages added. I'm at page 65 currently and it is almost entirely Math saying shit that literally no one agrees with and insisting he is right.

Like, Math, can we please not do this again in this game? You've stated your viewpoint, we got it. All we need to be doing at this point is flipping Wu and getting some actual information.

I do think there is another small pool of people we can scumhunt in, but flipping Wu first should be a priority.

pedit - fuck me there are like 12 posts in the time it took me to write this.

[VP Baltar]

PSA: If a pure wagon is what you're looking for then please take notice of my Yeet wagon. Thank you.

You that opposed to the wu yeet?

[VP Baltar]

What is the case on Ari? I'm going to give up on reading pages of spam shitting from a bunch of people.

[VP Baltar]

What is the case on Ari? I'm going to give up on reading pages of spam shitting from a bunch of people.

she refused to do what math told her to (push someone that was on the math/monkey wagon) and she voted scorp

I sort of figured this was Math being loud.

I'm utterly confused how people can look at the Wu wagon falling apart a second time and not see that as scummy. By all accounts, Wu should be LHF that scum are eager to hammer through, yet it has stalled repeatedly at the cusp of being serious -- even though Nero and others were flipping a shit earlier today about how scummy Wu is and how much they wanted him dead if it were not for people defending Wu. If at any point you said Wu is scum...WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU NOT VOTING WU.

Math is getting taken for a ride again because he is loud and refuses to listen to anything but his own theories about the game. Math, I'm trying to work with you here. We will get a lot of information out of this Wu flip. Please work with me.

I saw Math say somethin about HEM making some kind of convincing case about Ari in their PT....If it's good, then fucking post it. If it is anything like the arguments HEM was making earlier in the game, I am skeptical.

This game has quickly become a clown show of terrible play and it is annoying me.

[VP Baltar]

Ari, vote Wu.

[VP Baltar]

Furthermore VP before I posted the game was wagoning two masons
It was terrible play before I even posted.

Actually, I was pushing for Wu or HEM flip, and that's where the day was heading, not toward both the masons getting wagoned. You just didn't read the game before you claimed.

I'm not even mad at you for claiming. Whatever. Not how I would have played it, but I get where you're coming from. It's the same logic as our last game when I cleared A50.

But listen, you spamming the thread to make the same points again and again is not helpful. You only need to say it once. The beauty of forum mafia is that your words are immortalized forever and people can refer back to them.

When I say loud, I mean you spam the thread and say the same things repeatedly and insist you're right even if lots of other people disagree. It's exhausting and makes catching up impossible for people.

I'm trying to work with you. if you have an actual Ari case, post that shit.

[VP Baltar]

VP would you settle for a D1 fua lim?

What is the case? I'm sure it got lost in all this shit spew.

I didn't like fua early in the day, but I felt better about them recently after they explained some of their play in that chat with fire.

[VP Baltar]

Means scum likely knew who we were already.

is it just me or is like, purposefully wagoning someone you know is a mason a HORRIBLE scum strategy? >_>

It’s a good one I have seen successful.
It forces a second mason claim.

if you know who they are, why do you have to force them to claim? what the hell is the use of that?

[VP Baltar]

There’s a wagon on Ari for a reason
Stop focusing on me if you’re town.

WHAT IS THE REASON FOR THE ARI WAGON?????????

Like I asked for this case more than once, and "she argued with Hem and doesn't vote WU" is not a fucking case. So ELI5


And I'm talking to you because you're 50% of the posts in a LARGE GAME since you entered. If you would chill the fuck out and stop trying to big dick energy the whole game, we could land somewhere good today. There have been 12+ pages added since I got up 5 hours ago, and you can't tell me that is quality work happening in those pages because I read half of them before I had to come here to the future and plead with you to have some sense.

[VP Baltar]

I didn't like fua's early posts or their recent posts here either

can you expand on what you didn't like? What specifically?

[VP Baltar]

VP would you settle for a D1 fua lim?

What is the case? I'm sure it got lost in all this shit spew.

I didn't like fua early in the day, but I felt better about them recently after they explained some of their play in that chat with fire.

i talked about how they've been sheeping Nero all game in 1872. idk if i trust the people (tene) who jumped on that to vote for fua tho. yeet had already voted with 1629 and 1635, frogster wanted a lim there apparently but i can't find any reasoning, and skitter had voted with 1372

Thanks, I'll give this a look this afternoon

[VP Baltar]

Ari, you want to join me on the Wu wagon?

Math, you officially have the most posts in the game. Let that sink in.

[VP Baltar]

Ari, you want to join me on the Wu wagon?

Math, you officially have the most posts in the game. Let that sink in.

So? I tried not hyperposting and it was anti town.
So if I am anti town no matter what I do best I try.

Who called you antitowm for not spamming the thread?

[VP Baltar]

Dueling Wu and Fua wagons isn't terrible.

Pedit - Math, I think the biggest issue is that you seem to have to have the last word on literally every conversation. If you're a mason, you don't need to do that. No one is going to yeet you. And if they try, I'll rip their head off. Just chill a little bit.

[VP Baltar]

Monkey really thinks Ari is scum and I don’t want that lost.

He can make the case when he shows up I guess

[VP Baltar]

game feels wonky

Nero scum reads Wu

no one cares

now its likke half the thread scum reads him. Ofc, lurking with a history of lurking as scum will do that to you, I guess.

Still don't get why you are fighting the wu wagon when it is actually viable as to before.

[VP Baltar]

you gave me shit about pushing fluff posters and now you are pushing him? You're a hypocrite bro.

Imagine a world where reads change. You aren't explaining why you're afraid to vote him though.

[VP Baltar]

prob b/c you are scum

"oh Nero is so afraid to vote" that's like manipulative as fuck

Yeah, it is. I want to see this flip and I'm going to call you on your fleeing from something you banged on half the day about wanting so badly.

If you expect me to believe you in your other reads like skitter scum, or whatever, you should stick to your word and flip Wu.

Right now, it just looks like Wu could flip red and you don't actually want that. You can't give me a reason why you've changed other than it seems to have happened when the wagon had actual steam.

[VP Baltar]

Because fua is currently my top scumspect. It’s pretty simple…

A "bland Iso" is causing your biggest scumread right now?

I think you're full of it... It's a horrible reason to begin with,looking at their Iso makes it even worse.

Got anything better? you just made me really hate this wagon.

would you vote Wu?

[VP Baltar]

idk if i trust the people (tene) who jumped on that to vote for fua tho. yeet had already voted with 1629 and 1635, frogster wanted a lim there apparently but i can't find any reasoning, and skitter had voted with 1372

I think your Nero sheeping case against fua makes some sense. On this quoted part, are you citing this as evidence for or against the fua wagon?

[VP Baltar]

I'm also in a 4p hood with VP, Cape, and Skitter. I doubt its all 4 town and im town and cape is prob town. It's why I've been pushing that at least 1 of them is scum but I don't think it's impossible that both VP and Skitter are scum.

I'd like to see a dead Skitter or Ari's rep the most. Maybe Fua is scum that was buddying me. Don't really care that much about Wu staying alive.

How did I see this coming!

Can confirm, we are in a neighborhood. Nero has been poking around revealing to the thread for awhile now, and he is either dumbass town or scum trying to get ahead of the ball here.

Not much has happened in the hood. There was one weird interaction before the game started where skitter did some shading of Cape that I didn't care for, but Nero's play in game has been much scummier and I think he's very jittery for being town.

If I had to guess, the scum in the neighborhood is between Nero and skitter, but I'm not at all certain.

[VP Baltar]

and its just a meaningless hood. What does outting it do other than maybe put a spotlight on you and.or skitter?

It is just distraction at this point in the day. I don't think anyone in the hood is really being scumread right now, and you're dumping info that doesn't mean much to muddy the direction of the day. Further, if there is scum in the hood, the rest of the scum likely know what all is being said and you never know if someone slips.

[VP Baltar]

there's 3 scum outside of the hood. possibly only 2 if Skitter/VP are scum

Also Nero, why do you think there has to be scum in the neighborhood?
I sorta have the same feeling, but it could just be 4 townies too, right?

theater.

[VP Baltar]

I really don't feel like defending skitter here because fuck if I am confident on her alignment, but I find the way nero has played this all day and dropping the neighborhood thing while skitter is VLA all weekend, and then pushing the wagon AGAIN away from Wu is hella sketchy.

Flipping Wu here seems like a much more logical play.

[VP Baltar]

I also am biased because nero has been doing everything in his power to shade me with no justification for some time now, and I can't tell if he is just OMGUSing me because I was calling his shit around Wu, or if he is scum.

[VP Baltar]

ww?

[VP Baltar]

I am really sorry guys, but this is more than I can chew and you deserve someone with more time on their hands.

Good luck all.

The past 20 pages isn't that worth reading. Also, the game will slow down. I'd say stick around if you can stomach the first day or two. Larges get much more fun after that.

[VP Baltar]

Same

[VP Baltar]

@nero - why did you decide to out the neighborhood when you did?

[VP Baltar]

It’s a pretty outlandish claim all of herself, VP, Skitter, Datisi, fire, and Yeet are all town.
It’s even more outlandish DV, tene, Cape, and Nero are all town.

Yeah, what you're saying is fair here. There has to be some scum in there when that is half the town.

Did ari say both the mason wagons are pure? If so I missed that in the pages I didn't read

[VP Baltar]

3 tprs got ran up and then we couldn't vote out obvscum Ari and no one was listening to me so I thought we could at least vote out hood scum.

So you think the best play here is to semi-blind shot in our hood?

Let me put this another way, if you were not in a hood with skitter, would you find her scummy? Also, did you consider her being VLA at all when you made the decision to post that?

[VP Baltar]

yes she did, at least for me iirc

VP, i invite you to read the game and treat our pov seriously. that you don't makes me think you're so confident that ari is town

I don't think I made a definitive statement that ari is town, though i did think they looked more townie in the interaction with you (which i will probably reread at some point now that i know youre town). That's definitely an absurd thing to say there are no scum on either wagon.

I'm trying to read as much of the game as I can, but there were a ton of pages while I was sleeping/at work. Doing my best over here.

[VP Baltar]

Both you and Skitter are blatantly not reading my posts and it's both annoying and scummy

Your posts have been pretty boring tbf. You shade me for no reason like every other post and the times I have interacted with you, you kind of don't answer questions. It's annoying and I don't like petty fights with people. I do read your posts though and would love to move past this at some point if you're actually town.

[VP Baltar]

it's in the way that you dismiss the case against ari and have announced that the past 20 pages are barely worth reading. it sends the wrong message.

please consider this post when backreading ari. i would like to know what you think about it, even if it's a dissenting opinion.

I can see the case you're making. What I'm trying to weigh is that ari and mathblade just finished a bitter AF game, and it's behind them, but also I am certain there are tender egos there. So it's like, is ari just acting contrarian to Math because of that?

Math did come in this game and start yelling in a similar way to that past game. I wasn't even alive when that fight happened and it was kind of triggering for me.

Ari's replaced, so I'm not really that attached and if we just yeet that slot D1, then whatever. D1 in a large isn't that important.

I think Wu looks not great in wagon positions and the fact his wagon falls apart at e-5 everytime is a red flag for me, but I'm not lockscum on anyone at this point and can be convinced to compromise.

[VP Baltar]

But also, Ari's readslist was kind of a turd.

[VP Baltar]

It was probably a mistake to even sign up for a game this big after (thing I don’t wanna talk about happened) but I didn’t want to give Condo the satisfaction that it took anything away from me

It's fine. I'm glad you're here and playing. We can all be friends

[VP Baltar]

it doesn't explain her belligerence towards me.

That's why I want to reread it. I mean, now that it is public who ari is, it shouldn't surprise people the claws come out even as town. But I will reread it again and see if it feels like bad faith arguing.

[VP Baltar]

Also I think the best evidence against Wu is the wagon collapse but that's circumstantial evidence. If you like wagon-resistant then check iut Yeet by the way too, Yeet is even more wagon resistance than Wu.

Yeet never had a real wagon on them though did they? That is not the same thing.

You could say I'm wagon resistant because Nero has voted me and no one followed, but that doesn't really speak to anything about me, but rather the weak case Nero is making.

You say Yeet hasn't been scumhunting....idk if that's true. I think yeet has been as active in driving the game forward as you have. Also, there are other people who are doing much less. Why single him out?

[VP Baltar]

what do you think about the other points against Yeet, VP? just curious.

I want to ISO yeet where frogster is saying their read of you flipped inexplicably because there are 700 posts between those changed reads. I think that is the strongest point I saw made, but also seems like it needs verification that it is not cherry picked posts.

[VP Baltar]

Ok, yeah, it definitely kind of doesn't make sense for Yeet to vote HEM over Wu at that point in the game. Yeet had made several posts on the merits of HEM town and none on the merits of Wu town, so I'm not sure why Yeet would pick HEM in that scenario other than it was likely the largest wagon at the time.

Yeet, want to explain your thought process in 1206?

[VP Baltar]

not really i was still a "light town" for him some posts ago from that point. there were also odd posts i pointed out in #2201. In #2204, Frogster made a good point about Yeet's #199. Nero's #2211 is kind of a reach but it's interesting to note.

The post 199 is a bit whatever to me given how early in the game it was and how fast things were moving.

As far as 2201, I kind of see your point, but it is also possible to say someone has more of a point in a TvT argument.

I'll sheep you here for now, although I thought you were sold more on ari scum. Still think it is worth me rereading that interaction today.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: yeet

[VP Baltar]

i realize our avis are both smoking humanoids in suits.

Hurtling rapidly toward sweet sweet death

[VP Baltar]

I also wanted to show others that I was willing to compromise to set a tone to push the game forward. I guess I could've voted Wu who is kind of just at pure null for me but I thought the game was moving a bit slowly and as I said HEM became a bit more nullish for me than I originally tried to defend him for.

Hmm.

But would you say you had more town vibes on HEM or Wu at that point in the game?

[VP Baltar]

I also wanted to show others that I was willing to compromise to set a tone to push the game forward. I guess I could've voted Wu who is kind of just at pure null for me but I thought the game was moving a bit slowly and as I said HEM became a bit more nullish for me than I originally tried to defend him for.

Hmm.

But would you say you had more town vibes on HEM or Wu at that point in the game?

@yeet

[VP Baltar]

i find your assumption of my inability to do theatre insulting (not really)

It'd be fucking Broadway in here if we actually rolled scum together <333333

[VP Baltar]

I'm starting to read go over some of the sections. Can someone explain to me why MathBlade even claimed both of you guys as Mason to begin with? You two weren't even like that high at that point...

Like what was the point? There was plenty of room to start talking yourselves out of the wagon. Instead MathBlade just decided with like half the required votes on you guys not even halfway into D1 to just throw out the mason bomb immediately.

Semi considering you're trolling now...

[VP Baltar]

it does not refute my point that it's odd how her wagon took off only once she went v/la and how it's much easier for scum to vote her once she's away. and how your progression on skitter is less than stellar.

Ahem, your point?????


Anyhow, what is your read on skitter?

[VP Baltar]

Fire, what is your current reads list? I may have missed it.

[VP Baltar]

Why? Do you feel that the claim was necessary at that point?

I don't think it was necessary, and debating that point was to some degree why Math ballooned the page count yesterday. It took a lot of effort to get that to stop and it kind of feels like you're trying to prod math so the game becomes harder to read/distracted again.

[VP Baltar]

Fire, what is your current reads list? I may have missed it.

i don't really make readslists because my brain doesn't work like that but if you really want one i can give it a go

I really want one. You don't even have to give me reasons. Would just like to see how you're generally sorting people rn

[VP Baltar]

did i, completely accidentally, plagiarize someone?

Me you scumfuck!

[VP Baltar]

I don’t like when someone posts a requested read list.

If it’s an “assignment” it will never be %100 genuine.

And it always seems like the request or is looking for someone else to give them a foothold on more content.

Asking for one always pings me.

Vote me then. At least you'd be doing something

[VP Baltar]

did i, completely accidentally, plagiarize someone?

Me you scumfuck!

you said how it was weird that nero claimed the hood when she was vla!! that's completely different!!!

That is the same point: people were attacking skitter opportunistically when she was VLA.

Anyway, HEM, I'm waffling on Yeet. You still confident? My main thing is I think maybe he just isn't super keyed in to the game at times. Counterpoint is that I find his responses to be a bit overexplainy

[VP Baltar]

Aight. I see how this is.

You guys post your 40 pages…

Ima head out.. this is a joke

See how what is? What do you want to be happening here?

[VP Baltar]

I’m ridiculously not caught up and TRYING desperately to contribute and I get mocked?

I'm not mocking you. I am asking a legitimate question. People are going to keep playing the game, even if you're behind. Like, what you could do is just try to do some engaging in real time and give thoughts. There is no way you'll get caught up if you're like 50 pages behind.

[VP Baltar]

i think that's the most i'll get out of yeet's wagon. i'm not sold on the vote being 2 scummy 4 scum because it was a very self-conscious vote. regardless, if you feel like throwing your own parties, feel free.

Nah, I'm a bit of a softy if I see someone who might be town getting piled on and drowning. Just was curious if I was the only one getting some desperate townie vibes from Yeet's responses. Seems that way! I'll take my paranoia and leave now.

[VP Baltar]

Why do you think I'm "desperate townie" rather than "desperate scum"?

I don't think I can quite put my finger on it without really sitting down and analyzing the language selection in your responses.

I get a vibe of trying to explain a decision that wasn't all that thought through at the time, and just not doing a good job of it I guess. And the could be scum, of course, but I'm paranoid it could just be town you who has struggled to keep up with the game I guess.

This isn't a well thought out point by me, just vibes

[VP Baltar]

Can someone walk me through why the yeet vote is even a thing?

I cant be here for too long until tonight

Basically, the argument is that Yeet had been calling HEM town all game, and then when I was pressuring people to ethers vote HEM or Wu so we could move the game along, Yeet voted HEM over Wu.

Yeet says his town read had been diminishing and he voted to move the game along.

More nuance there, but that is the big picture

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: GeneralWu

Let's see what happens this time.

[VP Baltar]

im back with more fun facts (still not very useful edition)

cause i noticed wu had only voted once this game, for Nero when he thought that he was serious about the dayvig, and then unvoted 10 minutes later when he realized he wasn't.

town 2073: 0 votes day 1 (got put on E-1)
maf 2011: 1 vote day 1 (got put on E-2)
town 1992: 2 votes day 1 (got limmed)
maf 1987: 0 votes day 1 (no pressure)

so he's kind of a serial non-voter as both maf and town in his previous games. the votes that did come were usually pretty late in the day

Those are all his games?

[VP Baltar]

OK, mod says I can still play. No harm done. the thing is I was skimming hard and couldn't grasp a thing. I didn't even realize Math had claimed a mason until someone asked him why he outed. Also I missed Nero's hood claim until someone asked him the same. I suspect there's plenty of such details that I have missed and I didn't think that was fair for town collectively.

Today looks better (only 10 more pages) so I guess I can try to read those and then see if there are references to previous posts to check them or just keep on reading from here and ignore everything that happened before until someone makes a mention of it.

Happy to answer any catch up Qs you have. As long as you know the mainpoints, you should be able to get back in the game fine

[VP Baltar]

@nero, you going to get on this Wu wagon now?

[VP Baltar]

no, I said I'd hammer. You still aren't reading my posts.

I did read the NM joke, but I guess you were serious

[VP Baltar]

Nero Cain(1): Nero Cain

WTF? Why is Nero's vote on himself?

you'd know if you were reading. You gonna reply to my replies?

He's trying to catch up, chill

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: Cape90 Let’s start with this greedy hammer vote. Sure it could be town miscounting but scum could totally use that as an excuse. I am unhappy that instead of running Wu up, we ended up straight hammering him, and I have seen scum just go for the kill because wifom. Why Cape is getting zero scrutiny is shocking to me.Plus they are in a hood with VP and Nero and skitter who I all believe to be stronger town than Cape atm.

VOTE: cape

Gonna be a min before I can catch up but this was also my read overnight.

Cape, can you explain how you went from calling Wu town to hammering him?

Also, why did you keep explaining your vote after you hammered?

[VP Baltar]

I am vibing with VP it seems

It's weird because I had you on my shortlist if Wu votes to look at. Wasn't expecting you to vote Cape as well

[VP Baltar]

you know what would be wild? if Ari was actually town and deas/eyes were scum. I just don't get why April replaced in and did nothing.

Has April even posted or given any thoughts yet?

[VP Baltar]

Catching up and I feel lost and confused. I don't like this feeling!

Hmmm

[VP Baltar]

I see no reason why today shouldn't end in the death of 1 of VP, Eyes, Skitter or April.

VOTE: VP

I mean he's prob scum anyways but he's already claimed so low risk, high reward

BTW, Nero, can you now explain why you were trying to pump me for reads and perspectives overnight in the neighborhood? What was the benefit for town in doing that?

[VP Baltar]

Cape, fua, did you realize you were the hammer and e1 votes respectively?i think that scum on the wagon is probably towards the end (dats/fua/cape) or in the middle bunch of std, vp, yeet

That seems like a broad brush of who could be scum. Not sure what this was supposed to say truly.

Apologies if you already said this, but do you think we should definitely yeet within the neighborhood today? Why do you have cape as your top townread in the hood?

[VP Baltar]

I'm at the top of page 100. Need to get ready for work, but I'll pick up my catch up in a few hours.

Pedit _ right but I did not say I would give reads in the hood overnight. I said if wu flips green, I'll have thoughts to give on that.

[VP Baltar]

Hood people what happened in your hood overnight?

Nero pushed me to talk about reads. I told him I'm not doing that in a hood with a potential scum, and that it was kinda antitown to push it repeatedly.

That was all.

I doubt the hood is gonna get used much until we descum it

[VP Baltar]

Hood people what happened in your hood overnight?

Nero pushed me to talk about reads. I told him I'm not doing that in a hood with a potential scum, and that it was kinda antitown to push it repeatedly.

That was all.

I doubt the hood is gonna get used much until we descum it

Your reads are surely going to be seen when you post them here anyway? Like, I get playing your cards close to your chest sometimes, but mafia are going to find out what a lot of us think because that is a natural condition of playing the game, and you can basically repeat whatever was being said in your hood anyway.

There is no incentive for me to give scum information while they are making their NK. As you say, my reads will be posted in thread. Why are you defending Nero exactly?

[VP Baltar]

I don't think Cape pushing the hammer on Wu (whether intentional or unintentional) is particularly problematic given lots of players spent basically 10-20 pages desperate for the turn to come to an end. Wu was clearly seen as the strongest consistent candidate by that point for elimination despite uncertainties over their role.

That's not why he hammered though. He stated extensive reasons that were anything but "this is a consensus read for the day".

Also, why hammer without asking for a claim?

[VP Baltar]

I'd be interested to know where VP's thoughts stand on tenebros so far, and vice versa. Looking through their ISO there are a lot of soft interactions here without much of an indication as to what VP or tenebros necessarily think of each other as individual players. Like there isn't really a strong defence of tenebros while under pressure, but there's an attempt to paint Fua in a bad light after an exchange with tenebros, for example.

I haven't found tenebros all that scummy, and fua did look like shit in that interaction, as well as for not killing/not claiming target this morning.

You seem very eager to shade me on flimsy reasons.

[VP Baltar]

I feel like Wu would have surely claimed long before the actual hammer was dropped. They'd been under suspicion for most of the game and remained prime target by that point.

General play is to demand a claim when someone is E-1. You think he should have just claimed on his own? At what point should he have done that?

[VP Baltar]

What info were you likely to give them that was going to influence their kill? Seems clear they were either going to go for one of the masons or vigilante (if Fua was telling the truth).

*claimed vigilante.

But why is that so obvious? Masons aren't necessarily an early game threat to scum (though they need to be dealt with).

As far as info, scum can make kills that play to people's biases and reads. There is no incentive for me to give them any information at that point. What are you even arguing exactly? You think I'm scummy because I wouldn't put my reads in the hood last night?

[VP Baltar]

I found that incredibly strange and it felt a bit like you were potentially pursuing that line because it would have been odd to back off.

Actually my point made total sense and what you're arguing is dumb. If you think I'm afraid to switch positions as scum, you don't know my game at all.

Nero banging for Wu's yeet for half the day and then suddenly not being interested for extremely vague meta reasons when the Wu wagon got real is Hella suspicious on its face.

[VP Baltar]

Datisi, what do you think of cape?

[VP Baltar]

not gonna talk too much about fua atm since the slot is not currently in the game, but if i were a vig and my kill didn't go through my first thought would be that someone in my poe got scared. is that a fair thing to think, yay or nay? would scum roleblock a vig kill that was likely going to hit town just to cause confusion and avoid confirming the vig?

Got scared? I don't know what that means.

For your second question, how would scum know who fua was going to target?

[VP Baltar]

Nero banging for Wu's yeet for half the day and then suddenly not being interested for extremely vague meta reasons when the Wu wagon got real is Hella suspicious on its face.

Fire and Ari did the work and linked his games and I agreed with it.

Both you and Skitter are outright refusing that this ever happened. My read on Wu didn't stay the same b/c there was evidence presented that I was wrong and I thought "maybe" It makes very little sense to me that you 2 think I have to continue to push Wu.

I found your points very mealy mouthed. Regardless, I'm not super interested in relitigating this with you, and you're not really my top suspect anyhow.

You could just be terrible town here.

[VP Baltar]

Nero was the first person to throw any shade on Wu at all.

So what?

That's the best time to theater with a potential buddy. Like, your idea of optimal scum play is not correct, and that seems to be the heart of our disagreement.

[VP Baltar]

Uh oh, now it just sounds like you have an agenda neighbor!

You made that giant post after I called you out and you don't actually vote me?

Who you calling a coward?

[VP Baltar]

For the record, I made a post last night about 30 mins before deadline expired calling out Cape because I didn't want my actual thoughts on the game to go to the grave with me. I figured if I ate a vig shot or something, at least someone who is town could carry on my concerns today.

Judging by the size and extent of that post Cape just made, it seems clear to me he started writing that response about at that point knowing I was going to come out of the gates at him today. The fact there is no vote there on a giant wall case makes no sense.

[VP Baltar]

Did you plan on responding to its substance, or just shading Cape for writing it?

I'll look at it in depth and with good faith when I have a moment (which is not now). That being said, I am extremely skeptical a person puts that much effort into a giant post and doesn't vote. It's a failure of being timid as scum.

How long do you think it took Cape to write that and link all those posts? Two hours? You think he just did that on the fly in response to the most I made this morning just a couple hours ago? I'd say that's very unlikely.

What is more likely is he started last night when I posted in our hood and has been honing it with his scum buddies to reply today. He wasn't expecting me to come after him, probably content to let me and Nero fight it out if Nero is town. Cape knew he was going to have to respond with an overwhelming show of effort to sway town to his side. That's fine. I'll let the record speak for itself when I quote you Cape's viewpoint on Wu yesterday. Standby.

[VP Baltar]

For the record, I made a post last night about 30 mins before deadline expired calling out Cape because I didn't want my actual thoughts on the game to go to the grave with me. I figured if I ate a vig shot or something, at least someone who is town could carry on my concerns today.

Judging by the size and extent of that post Cape just made, it seems clear to me he started writing that response about at that point knowing I was going to come out of the gates at him today. The fact there is no vote there on a giant wall case makes no sense.

I mean, if you think that you clearly aren't looking at my fucking wall post

I have not fully read and checked all your links, no. That will take me some time and I'm at work currently.

[VP Baltar]

This is where I am at right now. I think I have too many town reads

town:

Frogsterking - 24, 71, 135, 194, 150

light town:

skitter30 - 33. 67. 172 bottom part sticks out a lot
Aristeia - 218 felt genuine. Voting monkey is good .
fireisredsir - 197 seems to take 178 a little too for granted. 87.
DeasVail - 110, 152, 168 for this last one, I think trying to randomly convince another person of a townread you have is town+.
GeneralWu

null:

Datisi (I will try again later idk),

light mafia:

tenebrousluminary - 116 just has a tone about it that I think looks not so great.

mafia:

humaneatingmonkey

206 makes me like fire and dislike frogs, mostly the townread on generalwu for those posts is questionable

False

both players look good off of that post.

Fire doesn't see it as a sort of joke read as I initially did.

Frogs somehow justifies this read GeneralWu as like "Huh do you mind elaborating why maf have more motivation to make friends than town?" which feels like such a stretch that it just wounds up being a towny stretch.

Wu needs to step the fuck up and start contributing to the game.

Okay coach. Make sure to tell him in your little "neighborhood"

VOTE: Cape

This seems sus for reasoning I think the foundation for will be apparent. Not sure how to explain it yet but I am hoping my wording will evolve into something people can understand.

Both I believe are a bit strange for different reasons, definitely would flip Nord over Wu, but I do kinda think Wu just kinda has been a nonpresence in the game.

I think that 2101 is an odd thing to comment on about the hood that they are not even a part of. Maybe they are trying to cool the discussion of this or just flat out know all 4 of us are town. Either way it feels like pretty empty speculation.

VOTE: GeneralWu

Latest postings from Eyes has been decent. I kinda like the double down on a... very meh post admittedly in 2427. I also kinda like 2404. I think General is a stronger vote then this and definitely Yeet

Also, fireisredsir defended me for a time, right?

this also looks like a WIFOM attempt at a frame job if General flips red

I think you are scum as people are defending you by attacking me versus explaining why they TR you.

You know, I think this might mean that some people defending me are scum.

There is also this which is pretty similar and is a bit generalized too

Here is Cape's full progression on Wu.

Has him as a light town read early on. Defends him a bit. Says he's been a nonpresence. Then votes him and gives three posts of reasoning why.

Like, I would totally buy "eh, I just wanted to end the day." The over explanation of the vote stinks. The progression of the read stinks. The not asking for a claim before hammering in a day when PRs got run up stinks.

Cape can go on and on about "VP is mean and has an agenda", but the facts are in Cape's posts and vote. That has nothing to do about agenda and if he was town, he'd spend his time explaining his thought process and reasoning rather than trying to shade me and act like he's a victim.

[VP Baltar]

This reads like SvS who had a precalculated fight. I think fua and Skitter can both die.

Okay, vote out the claimed vigilante who received no CC and wasn’t shot last night who also immediately received suspicion because there was no shot.

The lack of a counter claim is probably the strongest reason to give fua another day maybe. IDK, I really hate that they didn't claim the target and I think Datisi makes some OK arguments around scum motivation for that.

[VP Baltar]

keep in mind, Yeet literally voted me first and VP literally passively called me town all of day 1.

I called you likely scum in the hood long before Yeet voted you. So what are you even saying here?

[VP Baltar]

Yeah, I was never directly reached out about that. Maybe you should have literally asked me, especially if you think I am mafia for doing so, I am right there I literally can respond to you.

Oh yeah totally....

VOTE: Cape90 Let’s start with this greedy hammer vote. Sure it could be town miscounting but scum could totally use that as an excuse. I am unhappy that instead of running Wu up, we ended up straight hammering him, and I have seen scum just go for the kill because wifom. Why Cape is getting zero scrutiny is shocking to me.Plus they are in a hood with VP and Nero and skitter who I all believe to be stronger town than Cape atm.

VOTE: cape

Gonna be a min before I can catch up but this was also my read overnight.

Cape, can you explain how you went from calling Wu town to hammering him?

Also, why did you keep explaining your vote after you hammered?

OH SHIIIIIII......

[VP Baltar]

Okay so I call Wu a "nonpresence" that isn't exactly the amazing townread you think it is

What I'm saying is that before that point you never expressed any interest whatsoever in voting Wu. You didn't push him on the previous wagons. You barely acknowledged his existence other than a light town read and a mild defense in a separate argument.

Why did you not ask him to claim before your hammer? This is the third (?) time I've asked. Did you answer that and I missed it?