Large Normal 238 | Weiqi, Baduk, Go | Endgame

[fua]

Okay, just caught up with the whole game now. There are a few standouts, but I would first like to say that I took issue with the name MaoZedong and brought it up personally with the mod. I don’t know if anyone else was similarly uncomfortable or brought it up and I know Yeet probably doesn’t have bad intentions, but it’s definitely not held up just because he wasn’t around. Especially since we literally had a period where he clearly confirmed he was around beforehand or he would have been included with the two called out.

Early thoughts are that Yeet is probably town and Frogster’s argument on him had no real basis. I scumread Tenebro hard based on 116 and the attempt to defuse suspicion by essentially saying it’s just a bandwagon, and thus my TR on Yeet gets stronger by association.

No idea what to make of Datisi or Aristeia. I don’t think the latter is right about HEM but that doesn’t mean she’s scummy. Just have no idea how to read her. I didn’t get as bad a vibe from Dats as everyone else is saying, but still.

Frogster reads like an overexcited townie jumping at whatever he can find rather than a scum trying to hit a cheap gotcha. Pretty sure at least one of his hypothetical teammates would have told him to cut out the push if he was scum.

I TR red, Cape90, Skitter, and Wu. Lighter TR/almost neutral on HEM since I think he’s just like that.

[fua]

VOTE: Tenebro

[fua]

I also wouldn’t mind getting Datisi hammered soon.

That's a bad idea.
Hammering people very early on is bad because we have less time to discuss and we're probably defenstrating a townie.

If you all want a real reason to think that GeneralWu is town that isn't the Amine thing, I would have to suggest this

That’s basic mafia 101 though. Not worth a TR to say especially since someone else is gonna say it anyway.

[fua]

Also I figure I should state in public for posterity that just because an opinion is popular doesn’t necessarily mean it’s wrong. Tenebro can still be scum even with quite a few people having called him out already.

[fua]

I mean, I’ve stated it as scum before. It’s a 19 person game, anyone would know that it’s a bad idea to hammer halfway through page 3.

[fua]

For the record, I do TR Wu, but not because he said that.

[fua]

“I’m so popular, everyone is looking at me” is basically a degradation of the reason to actually suspect you and dismisses it as a trend rather than a veritable case.

[fua]

Yes, but I would think you would at least go and defend your position or acknowledge the votes on you. Your playstyle so far has been very dismissive and I find that that typically comes from scum.

[fua]

Tenebro makes me want to consider pushing Datisi up to a townlean just a little.

[fua]

Nobody should agree with votes on them. That doesn’t mean anything. If you’re a townie then you getting miselimmed would mean two of us dying. I feel like multiple people voting you for a post should at least make you want to defend your position there instead of digging further into Datisi. It’s not dismissive of individual people so much as it is the case against you and the fact you’re being suspected.

Saying that you want to be quiet and listen (AKA ‘lurk’) doesn’t exactly put me at ease either.

[fua]

So… say that? Don’t just ignore the votes and hope they go away? I don’t see how this game plan helps you or town at all.

Mmm. I’m not going to argue semantics and at best it seems like common courtesy.

In any case, you’re not going to convince me by keeping up this argument. I recommend engaging with more people and trying to hunt rather than talk about whether or not you’re being dismissive or a good listener.

[fua]

Like. If you take issue with votes on you, then start a dialogue, like you literally stated yourself.

[fua]

Okay, since we're not trying to convince each other, we can be on our merry way. Good talk.

[fua]

Actually, as an addendum, your point that you responding to me doesn't make you dismissive doesn't make any sense, since you kind of had to respond to it by default or you were only proving my point.

And acting defensively and offensively not only go hand in hand sometimes, but are directly required in the case of a dialogue. For example, I have no idea what your opinions are on the people who are voting for you even if you yourself stated that you love being controversial. 'Your way' is almost objectively detrimental to town and completely contradictory of your prior words.

[fua]

Looking back at it 265 is some of the LAMIST stuff I’ve ever seen.

[fua]

Yes, I don't know how to do it and never have done it.

[fua]

Is scrolling to see a post on the same page that hard?

[fua]

you wrap post tags around the post number you want to link to

so like (post)666(/post) but obv with brackets there's also a button

Thank you. Will be doing that from now on.

[fua]

That is a good point. I feel like he hasn't done anything notably scummy which is why he hasn't been put in that ballpark at the moment.

[fua]

Quick ISO skim has only one post with a serious opinion about the gamestate while the rest is just meta or fluff.

[fua]

I have a suspicion besides those and Tenebro right now but I’ll sit on it for later.

[fua]

@Nero I’ll jump to a Wu wagon if you do. I don’t suspect HEM as much, I think he’s just usually this standoffish and want to wait to see more content.

[fua]

VOTE: GeneralWu

[fua]

Oh hello 13 pages. Is this game serious already?

19 people.

[fua]

Uhhh. I’m not sure.

[fua]

i like the directions that fua and nero are looking so far, but after some research wu looks exaaaactly like he did in newbie 2073 so im less interested in that for now. tene and monkey i am more on board with

I disagree. In that game Wu gets to the meat of things quicker and posts more game-related content involving his thoughts and his reads. Compare that ISO to this one and the latter looks a lot more bare in comparison. Here he makes one tentative statement on an interaction and then when he gets suspected his rebuttal is to accuse Nero of slipping by asking him how he knows how many mafia there are. Maybe it’s something something timeframe but to me these two don’t match up.

[fua]

Furthermore, in the bottom of 266, they treat me like they know I am town.

Can you give me specifics of what you're seeing there?

The kid gloves thing -- "I would recommend you do this (in order for me to town read you)" is a strange thing to say to a suspect. I think they had a guilty conscience about their crappy attack on me.

No, it’s actually a perfectly reasonable thing to say. If you’re town your goal is to not be voted for. I tell you what you need to do to be less scrutinized instead of death tunneling you like you’re doing Datisi. I wouldn’t need to use kid gloves if you understood how not attempting to avoid being miselimmed negatively affects town if you are town.

[fua]

sorta felt like 130 is a sassy town reaction to being suspected


lets kill Wu

That was one of the things that set my alarm bells off the most. Instant red flag for me.

[fua]

sorta felt like 130 is a sassy town reaction to being suspected

I agree.

This should also concern you, Nero.

[fua]

sorta felt like 130 is a sassy town reaction to being suspected

I agree.

This should also concern you, Nero.

though if Wu is scum he could just kinda troll and cause confusion, no?

That’s why I’m still on Wu and we can see what happens next. Wouldn’t be opposed to Tenebro but I think this is better for now.

[fua]

Frogster reads too much like newb town for me to bother suspecting him D1. I can see the reasoning but I don’t think scum would make/allow their teammate to make that level of blunder when it comes to handling Yeet. Townreading Wu for activity isn’t out of the question for a newbie either.

[fua]

Frogster reads too much like newb town for me to bother suspecting him D1. I can see the reasoning but I don’t think scum would make/allow their teammate to make that level of blunder when it comes to handling Yeet. Townreading Wu for activity isn’t out of the question for a newbie either.

Activity is NAI imo.

Yeah, that’s what I’ve been saying for a while. I was referencing the fact that Frogster TRing him for that was AI.

[fua]

Anyway, main reads so far. Wu seems incredibly suspicious so far to me and I'm surprised it took until p11 of the game for Nero to pick up on this. Basically all of their early posts were either jokes or non-comments which allowed them to appear active without getting too involved in the game and actually taking stances either way. If they come back mafia, worth looking at other players early on who had theories but didn't pick up on that.

I didn't necessarily suspect Tenebros on the basis of their early posts but found some of their later defences incredibly weak attempts to divert attention away from them without addressing accusations at-hand.

Yet seems solidly townie so far, if not would be a very bold strategy for mafia playing their first game on the site. Also appears to have a sort of absolute confidence in their reads which can often be townie, mafia maybe more likely to hedge their bets and avoid going too heavily in on someone who could later be confirmed town.

JSYK, Tenebro is likely an alt, meaning this isn’t their first game here.

[fua]

Not even 6 hours into the game and we're at twenty pages. Is this some sort of sick joke?

Re-reading in a bit.

Actually it's 18. But still.

[fua]

Also to be serious: nero's pushing me to let things form "organicly," but that's suspicious to be honest.

Why is it suspicious?

I don't even think the push on you is to let things form naturally-- he was just arguing against Ari's suggestion of deciding to focus on a wagon.

[fua]

I scumread Tenebro hard based on 116 and the attempt to defuse suspicion by essentially saying it’s just a bandwagon

I don't remember doing this. What do you mean?

“I’m so popular, everyone is looking at me” is basically a degradation of the reason to actually suspect you and dismisses it as a trend rather than a veritable case.

I am not sure how you got that idea from what I wrote, but okay.

It would be difficult for me to think any case against me had merit when I know it to be wrong.

Yes, but I would think you would at least go and defend your position or acknowledge the votes on you. Your playstyle so far has been very dismissive and I find that that typically comes from scum.

Fua looks objectively terrible in this exchange, and isn't even scumreading Tenesbro's 116 for the correct reason (which is that reads like pocketing of Yeet.)

How is it objectively terrible? What am I supposed to do instead? I brought new ideas to the table regarding Tenebro because he's a genuine scumread of mine. I think recent posts show that he's a little more likely to be noob town including Wu's opinion on him, so I'd like to see how you find it scummy.

[fua]

Are you buddying me b/c im slightly taking your side in Ari vs. monkey? Why are you asking me around my reads

You think if I were buddying you that I would say that shit about pressuring? Why risk agitating my meal ticket?

Not you, Einstein.

[fua]

I scumread Tenebro hard based on 116 and the attempt to defuse suspicion by essentially saying it’s just a bandwagon

I don't remember doing this. What do you mean?

“I’m so popular, everyone is looking at me” is basically a degradation of the reason to actually suspect you and dismisses it as a trend rather than a veritable case.

I am not sure how you got that idea from what I wrote, but okay.

It would be difficult for me to think any case against me had merit when I know it to be wrong.

Yes, but I would think you would at least go and defend your position or acknowledge the votes on you. Your playstyle so far has been very dismissive and I find that that typically comes from scum.

Fua looks objectively terrible in this exchange, and isn't even scumreading Tenesbro's 116 for the correct reason (which is that reads like pocketing of Yeet.)

How is it objectively terrible? What am I supposed to do instead? I brought new ideas to the table regarding Tenebro because he's a genuine scumread of mine. I think recent posts show that he's a little more likely to be noob town including Wu's opinion on him, so I'd like to see how you find it scummy.

You accused him of saying something he didn't say in the post you referenced. He asks for an explanation, then you doubled down on it anyway when it was clear you misread the game or at the very least misstated what you were saying.

That's not genuine interaction. My read of it is you saw a semi-popular target and piled on with contrived reasons.

It was literally implied in the way he went about it. Of course he didn't say it verbatim, but with the tone and manner of which it was gone about he might as well have.

[fua]

Does scum-reading two players equate to having to team them, especially this early in the game?

This is a good post and a philosophy I always have and always will go by.

[fua]

I want to TR VPB by playstyle but his takes aren't very good.

[fua]

Okay, so take everything literally and at face value from now on. Will do, chief.

[fua]

I want to TR VPB by playstyle but his takes aren't very good.

what about his playstyle makes you think town and why would his bad takes influence how you read him

I think that he is bringing new ideas to the table and approaching the situations with nuance, but also I'm inherently biased because I'm the one being suspected and I know he's wrong. I think him not mentioning where he stands on GeneralWu is a little weird considering he's been one of the most controversial out so far today and I disagree with the consensus on you because I know you're typically snappy and whatnot. That makes me TR Nero more for wanting Ari to fulfill your request and Nordom is currently a strong TR for me as well.

[fua]

I want to TR VPB by playstyle but his takes aren't very good.

what about his playstyle makes you think town and why would his bad takes influence how you read him

I think that he is bringing new ideas to the table and approaching the situations with nuance, but also I'm inherently biased because I'm the one being suspected and I know he's wrong. I think him not mentioning where he stands on GeneralWu is a little weird considering he's been one of the most controversial out so far today and I disagree with the consensus on you because I know you're typically snappy and whatnot. That makes me TR Nero more for wanting Ari to fulfill your request and Nordom is currently a strong TR for me as well.

Why am I such a strong TR?

Also because I'm biased and your statements are generally the same as what I'm thinking.

[fua]

I disagree with part of the Ari read from you and VPB but that's a conversation for another time.

[fua]

I TR Skitter, but I’m pretty sure some of her townreads and all of her scumreads are wildly wrong (less sure on Eyes, but still).

Malcolm is a strong TR and that’s a good catch from him.

[fua]

Datisi night actualky be scum, though. I need to look at that slot again.

[fua]

I feel like the first part is a bad-faith representation of Nordom’s play, doesn’t read into the context surrounding the message you quoted and omits the actual lines of questioning that were brought up around that time. Rudeness doesn’t equal dismissiveness and judging from early interactions I think Nordom is just snappy in general rather than that being a tell (I don’t see how rudeness is indicative of scumminess anyway).

[fua]

Like. What makes HEM’s approach worth a TR over Nordom’s beyond the Datisi thing?

[fua]

Datisi night actualky be scum, though. I need to look at that slot again.

What made you post this?

I said I disagreed with her scumreads which I thought were wrong, went back to check if she was SRing anyone else and noticed she was voting Datisi.

[fua]

Malcolm is a strong TR

Why?

He's bringing new ideas to the table and actually seems reasonable, which is a bit of a rarity right now.

[fua]

Malcolm is a strong TR

Why?

He's bringing new ideas to the table and actually seems reasonable, which is a bit of a rarity right now.

Which new ideas?

855-877 are just very good posts in general.

Datisi night actualky be scum, though. I need to look at that slot again.

What made you post this?

I said I disagreed with her scumreads which I thought were wrong, went back to check if she was SRing anyone else and noticed she was voting Datisi.

You didn't remember that skitter was going after datisi?

No, I've skimmed some of their posts because of the bad grammar and have generally not been paying attention to the Datisi wagon, which is why I said I need to take another look at the slot. Why does it matter?

[fua]

Quick note that Scorp plays scummy no matter what alignment he is. I'm going to just treat him like N_M and wait to see what happens instead of gambling on it.

[fua]

Malcom, I think you're getting too over-excited in the pants from Datisi's lazy town read on you. You gotta dig deeper.

Unless you're maf butt-buddies together then fml

These posts are not appropriate. Please stop.

If those particular sentences managed to offend anybody, then I think that person needs to grow a thicker skin.

I think you should consider what’s appropriate or not appropriate when it comes to a game of mafia. Stop talking about someone else’s genitals or their sexual habits, and stop saying the L word. That’s the only time I’ll ask.

Thank you.

[fua]

There's so many people I want gone today. Datisi/DeasVail/fireisredsir/maybe VP Baltar

Is it just me, or has your Datisi read suddenly switched three or more times in the last 3 pages?

I am seeing nuanced and complex thought processes from Datisi right now. I remain unsure about him, but in light of that and my plethora of other suspects, I would like to give him some space.

I am still considering whether Nordom is scum or merely unusual.

This is the first post from Tenebro I’ve actually really liked. I think he’s sitting comfortably in null right now.

[fua]

sup fucks, i'm back from my classes, i'm sure y'all are very happy to hear that

Datisi night actualky be scum, though. I need to look at that slot again.

What made you post this?

I said I disagreed with her scumreads which I thought were wrong, went back to check if she was SRing anyone else and noticed she was voting Datisi.

what made you change your mind from "i don't see what people see in datisi" or whatever the hecc it was

i'm currently going through some isos, fua, can you answer this pls?

I haven’t been keeping tabs on the case on you because I’ve been kind of tunneled and focused on a few other players to the point where I just forgot what I thought of you. You hadn’t posted in a while so other people were more prevalent.

[fua]

Ok, anyhow, moving on...

I haven’t been keeping tabs on the case on you because I’ve been kind of tunneled and focused on a few other players to the point where I just forgot what I thought of you. You hadn’t posted in a while so other people were more prevalent.

Where is your head at currently with your scum reads? I have a hard time tracking who you actually want to lim.

Town:
Malcolm - Reasons I've already explained. I think that he's level-headed and approaching situations with nuance, and also after going back through ISOs I agree that the case on Datisi.
Datisi - I've gone through ISOs and liked his posting a lot. I think it's a solid townie mindset and I don't see what other people see in him.
Nero - I know how Nero plays. This is probably town Nero. Handled GeneralWu well and I think he's right with that read.
Frogster - Weirdly misguided townie who seems way too overeager to catch a scum early. Could be right, but for the wrong reasons. Easy townie on my end and I can't see any associatives.
Skitter30 - I also think she is misguided town. I disagree with a chunk of her townreads and basically all of her scumreads except for maybe Eyes. I especially don't see a case on Nero at all.
STD - Has brought new ideas to the table and is putting in some effort to be visible and play the game. More of a townlean than full town, but still.

Townlean:
VP Baltar - I have issues with your list, but I think your questioning lines are genuine and you are attempting to sort people.
Cape90 - Same.

Null/Not enough info:
Eyes - Barely anything in their ISO and not enough to read them off of.
Tenebro - There have been a few posts I've really liked and a few I've really hated. I've cooled off on them though and I'm not going to revote them unless something changes down the line.
HEM - I can see his play coming from scum or just apathetic town. I think he's just snappy and confrontational in general and I don't see a case on him.
Ari - Not gonna talk about this slot right now, but I can see both cases.
Nordom - Probably just an insensitive moron. No idea what to make of him and I want to see how his replacement handles things.
Scorpious - He looks scummy, but that's true of literally every game he plays. It's not worth pursuing for now and I doubt there's any valuable info we can get out of it even if he does flip scum.

Scummy:
DeasVail - This is the slot I'm least sure on. I think depending on Nordom's alignment it could MAYBE go either way, but for right now I don't see how they can TR HEM with little explanation while SRing Nordom for his snappy dismissiveness. It feels a little bit inconsistent to me and like they're going with the easy route.
Fireisred - It's been pointed out that they're mostly playing the mediator and I'm inclined to agree. They've kind of been piling on to individual wagons and their three votes have just been whatever's easiest to pick out at the time. I think their callout of Tenebro was okay but I also want to see who they actually scumread throughout today.
Yeet - One of the more prominent pushers of the Datisi wagon. I think that Malcolm pointing out their inconsistency on the case on Datisi was a good thing, and going through their posts it kind of looks like they're pushing Datisi's posts into a scum mindset in a square peg round hole kind of deal. They briefly switched to skitter for not SRing Datisi like they did but switched back to him right after, so I don't really think they're actually taking new information into account.


Scum:
GeneralWu - Their ISO is a huge ball of nothing, they've got like 1-2 actual comments on the game compared to the game that Fire linked earlier where they got right down to business, and they ghosted the thread shortly after being called out by Nero and haven't posted in almost a day. My vote is staying here.

Is that good enough for you?

[fua]

(before you ask, the tell is that if someone is mostly lurking, and when they post they're mostly shitposting without trying to appear townie, they're more likely town. this does not apply to players like not_mafia.

it also does not necessarily apply to scorpious, because i've seen fua say he always plays like this, and i don't have the knowledge to know whether he'd play like this as scum, which is why it's only weakly town!indicative)

I've played with Scorpious as both alignments including being on a scumteam with him and he's an incredibly easy miselim because he tends to be wildly wrong in his assumptions. Just because he's not playing optimally doesn't mean he's scum, but it also doesn't mean he's townie either. I feel like anyone looking at him at this point wants low hanging fruit to round out their scumreads and potentially get credit down the line if he is eliminated and happens to be scum. Neutral for me and I don't want to lim him until more things happen.

[fua]

Good thing I am town and can give you a second opinion.

[fua]

What if Fire/Ari are scum and know Wu is town?

Hop back on Wu with me until we hear from Nord's replacement?

[fua]

Fire and Wu might actually be scumbuddies now that I think about it. Especially since Fire linked a game where he plays completely differently to how he is now and stated that he looks townie here for it.

[fua]

Fire and Wu might actually be scumbuddies now that I think about it. Especially since Fire linked a game where he plays completely differently to how he is now and stated that he looks townie here for it.

huh? he was playing exactly the same at the point that i linked it. that was a long time ago. since then he's disappeared and done nothing and that's def more scummy than the game i linked, but you can't say that because he deviated from it AFTER I made the comparison that my comparison is invalid

No, he was actually making an effort to solve within the first day compared to what he's done here which is practically nothing. He's barely given any opinions at all here while in that game he was actually being considerate and taking people's approaches into account.

If you think he looks more scummy now then why isn't he a scumread for you?

[fua]

I mean... he already has defenders and people who decided to not focus on him or were dismissive of the case. So I'd say that's a lot more useful than Scorp who had none and always plays this way.

[fua]

Also, it's not impossible that he's trying to mimic his town game here because he knows that it would be a way to TR him regardless.

[fua]

Alright, this wagon on Wu feels pretty weak. You can argue that "Well, they haven't really scumhunted, they've lurked, and yadda yadda yadda", but I mean it hasn't even been 24 hours since this game skyrocketed into an absurd twenty pages.

Not to mention, I'm getting some opportunistic vibes going on with these votes.

VOTE: Daitisi

Content to just push on players who are getting attention thrown their way and I haven't really gotten the impression that it's a town tell of "Pressuring for information" from them.

this is why I decided to vote Nord. I felt like the defense was strange.

he's also being a hypocrite by saying that the votes on Wu were opportunistic (weren't there like only 2 or 3 SRS votes on him?) while joining the dats wagon

Nordom's play has been incredibly suspect but I dunno if they're actually mafia, feel like their play has been inconsistent to a degree you wouldn't expect from a mafia player perhaps wanting to be more careful and measured. But could just be inexperienced newbie struggling to blend in and then doubling down out of panic.

No, he's apparently not a newbie judging by his comments throughout the game. I really can't see him being partners with anyone that wouldn't tell him to shut up in the scum thread.

[fua]

Also, it's not impossible that he's trying to mimic his town game here because he knows that it would be a way to TR him regardless.

yea, it's very possible. i didn't ever townread him i just think it's a boring place to push. tbh if he's scum i don't think he's good enough to survive very long anyway so other places are more interesting to look for now and will also give us more information

His lim would give us info now since you're stepping up to bat for him and three people left his wagon without any improvement on his end of things.

[fua]

Compare that to Scorpious receiving comments about his play and not receiving a single vote this game and I think that they're clearly different situations.

[fua]

1. Imitating a town game and playing the phase like he did there, but without any commentary on the actual gameplay itself like he did there.

2. Associates that actually leave his 4 man wagon despite no change on his end of things and people that step up to the plate for him making him more limmable for information on the rest of the gamestate.

3. LAMIST play and attempting a cheap and opportunistic gotcha on Nero by asking him 'how do you know how many scum there are?', which is just bad.

4. Wolfy pop-in just now after 20 hours of ghosting.

[fua]

My STD read reasoning may be weaker or ‘exaggerated’, but I have reasons to TR him outside of thise that I’m going to wait to talk about.

[fua]

I also don’t think Tenebro read any other part of my readslist anyways.

[fua]

I may have more to say on Monkey later, but fua asked about why I scumread Nord over monkey and I think a key difference for me is that monkey is that I get the impression monkey believes what they are saying while Nord doesn’t. I also kind of liked 518 because it was entitled in a way that I think is more common from town.

I haven’t fully processed Datisi’s recent posts, but a few things. I’m influenced by Ari’s strong townread of Datisi, which I think is worth giving some value to. I think the vote on Nordom would be a bit strange from Datisi-scum (exception is if scum with Nord, but as a general rule at this stage of the game I tend to read people on the assumption of others being town). The waffly comment on me in 348 feels like something Datisi would just decide to not say as scum because it doesn’t add anything but is a thought I could see Datisi having as town.

Which posts from HEM gave you that impression? I thought the ‘I have a life outside of this’ argument is AtE and NAI.

[fua]

STD - Has brought new ideas to the table and is putting in some effort to be visible and play the game. More of a townlean than full town, but still.

I would characterize this as exaggerated at best.

why did you only pick my read out of fua's list

It seemed the most out of place. At the time, you had one post that brought any ideas to the table, new or otherwise, and were barely playing the game. My attention was also drawn because fua was not the first person to place you bizarrely high in their list. I also meant to comment on their Wu read, but got distracted and forgot until a later post.

Actually three ideas to the table, such as directly calling Nord town.

Who else put STD high? And why didn't you question them?

[fua]

Yeah, but it was never actually singled out or answered despite her saying her read on him was genuine. It was an exchange where HEM just kept asking for an explanation for all of her reads and she didn't give one.

[fua]

They.

[fua]

They.

Sorry, I will use they/them pronouns for you from now on. I think there's an option somewhere to have the pronoun under your avatar, if you'd like to enable that.

What? I did have that before. I didn't even realize it was gone.

Weird.

[fua]

Yeah, my pronouns aren't showing up. I don't think anyone's are.

[fua]

Fua, I’m interested in why you saw Nord as an easier route than HEM

What do you mean by that?

[fua]

Fua, I’m interested in why you saw Nord as an easier route than HEM

What do you mean by that?

I was referring to the post where you expressed a scumread of me in your readslist

I was curious as to what made your scumread of Nordom different from your townread of HEM.

[fua]

I think the HEM wagon is sorta fast. Kinda makes me wary but maybe that still flips scum, idk.

i kinda thought the same for a bit, but isn't any wagon in a game this big gonna feel sorta off?

no? It seems like there's been way more cohesion ITG than in most games. It feels like most of the votes have been on HEM, Wu, Fua, Nord.

Datisi as well.

[fua]

I think the HEM wagon is sorta fast. Kinda makes me wary but maybe that still flips scum, idk.

i kinda thought the same for a bit, but isn't any wagon in a game this big gonna feel sorta off?

no? It seems like there's been way more cohesion ITG than in most games. It feels like most of the votes have been on HEM, Wu, Fua, Nord.

Datisi as well.

There hasn’t been a VC in a while.

Care to say who’s on me?

I have a good feeling it’s probably a lot of scum.

What gives you this feeling?

Or is it just a thing that you thought town would say?

The landscape from posts being left on a slot that couldn’t do anything while I couldn’t rep in yet.

By posts do you mean votes?

If so, I feel like that’s a pretty common occurrence.

I do yeah.

It’s a good place for scum to drop a vote and hide.

There’s a huge D1.

Someone dropping a vote on someone who can’t post is a pretty bad move.

I agree with this which is why I didn't vote Nord.

[fua]

dayvig:mathblade

dayvig:mathblade

VOTE: Nerocain

After my flip.

You don’t dayvig a mason and live

Oh shoot.
(Pun somewhat intended )

What's your takeaway from that interaction?

[fua]

dayvig:mathblade

dayvig:mathblade

VOTE: Nerocain

After my flip.

You don’t dayvig a mason and live

Oh shoot.
(Pun somewhat intended )

What's your takeaway from that interaction?

I think you’re town.

Can you give me a tldr on how our wagons started?
The mason PT is kinda mum.

Both HEM and Nordom came into the game very snappy and dismissive. HEM dropped in a bit aggressively, Ari posted a readslist where he was at the bottom, and he asked her to elaborate on all of them. There was basically a period where Fire played the mediator to Ari and a small bloc of people hopped onto the HEM wagon. He's mostly an easy vote for now but I basically had him on the higher side of null for the interaction. I TR people who were on the side of HEM at the moment.

I actually kind of TRed Nordom to start off with, but there were times where he was inconsistent and his pushes didn't really make sense. I think his abrasiveness when it came to actual arguments and coming off as just not listening plus his blowup made it easy to put a vote on him. I don't think he had anything that put him at the top of scum suspects and was also on my null section, so it comes off as more just LHF for me. That's just my take on it, though.

[fua]

I TR people who were on the side of HEM at the moment.

Who are you talking about specifically?

UNVOTE: HEM

Malcolm, Nero, STD.

[fua]

Hi General, can you answer 1290?

[fua]

Hi General, can you answer 1290?

I wanted to wait a while to see if the dayvig thing was real.
Because if it isn't, Nero's either extremely scummy or extremely antitown.

You seemed to already have a response on it.

[fua]

Hi General, can you answer 1290?

I wanted to wait a while to see if the dayvig thing was real.
Because if it isn't, Nero's either extremely scummy or extremely antitown.

Also, how so? You seem to be tossing out these vague half-reads without ever elaborating on them.

[fua]

Yeah! Why the 'oh shoot' response if you don't have thoughts on it?

[fua]

I TR Datisi and SR Fire. I think he might be being pocketed judging by the way the wagons swung onto two easier targets.

[fua]

Start at the top of HEM's ISO and look at the context surrounding there. I think the reaction to him was overblown and that the shift off of him is due to TMI rather than scum not wanting one of their own miselimmed. He was the first real wagon and those never stay to begin with, so I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't reflect his alignment.

[fua]

Start at the top of HEM's ISO and look at the context surrounding there. I think the reaction to him was overblown and that the shift off of him is due to TMI rather than scum not wanting one of their own miselimmed. He was the first real wagon and those never stay to begin with, so I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't reflect his alignment.

What do you make of Wu? And tene?

Wu is scum. I'm less sure of Tenebro because he's made posts I both like and dislike. I don't think he has easy associates so I'm keeping him in null for now.

[fua]

Mathblade already claimed by the time Nero fake claimed, though. This feels like another cheap gotcha.

[fua]

Hmmm so you think HEM is scummier than Ari? Am I reading this right Skitter?

Yes, by far

You think a mason is scummier than Ari? Really?

[fua]

Hmmm so you think HEM is scummier than Ari? Am I reading this right Skitter?

Yes, by far

You think a mason is scummier than Ari? Really?

On play, yes
If he's actually a mason then sure he's town but based on the info i had at the time fo their fight, he was significanfly scummier

There's a reason both of your slots were getting wagoned...

That's not what he asked and it doesn't align with the readslist you just posted.

[fua]

"If he's mason, he's town, but I was only SRing him at the time and not now" is how it reads to me.

[fua]

Take out Nero. I wager at least two lurking in there.

From most to least likely: Wu > Fire = Skitter > Tenebro

[fua]

i don't see the point in not believing the claim at the moment

but I will say that crumbing (in the least secretive way possible) in an entry post and then literally 25 minutes later being like "im mason, look at my crumbs for proof" and then "oh i had to claim because both masons were wagoned QUICK VOTE THESE SPECIFIC OTHER PEOPLE THERE'S NO TIME" is hilarious

i especially like the "hum de dum I'm gonna go hunt scum in a VC" and then coming back with "oh NO me and my mason partner are the lead wagons?? whaaat??" for extra dramatic effect

That's actually a good point that I hadn't thought about.

[fua]

Fua any comment on my vote on you?

I feel like it's substanceless and poorly justified, like you're trying to fit current me into the initial scumread you had of me based on my push of Tenebro. "We have completely different reads" shouldn't be in the same case as "They said I have bad takes" because I'm obviously going to think you have bad takes with different reads. Doesn't mean I can't still read your play as relatively townie even if the tree you are barking up is on the other side of the planet from mine.

[fua]

Also, I already stated that it was implied from their play, not that they had to directly say it. If you take everything completely at face value in mafia you're going to have a very bad time.

[fua]

@ everyone

is cape town

Not sure. Townlean for me at best, but he’s kind of been in the background most of the day.

[fua]

Hmm, another question to fua on 1063. I must admit that my yeet read has dampened somewhat with them not having kept up their enthusiasm and activity, but I feel like your reasons for townreading Frogsterking could just as easily apply to Yeet. I know that explaining readslists is often a crapshoot, but I must say the readslist in 1063 strikes me as being a lot of words but doesn't actually give me a strong idea of

why

your reads are what they are.

I just wanted to give at least some reasoning behind where I ranked them. I’m not typing out a whole paragraph for everyone.

The difference between Frogster and Yeet is that I don’t think Frogster has any associates or an agenda he’s really pushing, unlike Malcolm’s note about Yeet (who has been pretty well-defended so far). That and his opening was so outlandish it makes me want to townbin him without thinking about it further.

[fua]

No problem.

Remind me who you’re SRing right now again?

[fua]

VOTE: Fua

Frogsterking, I am ready to shake this tree with you.

Be careful when you shake a tree, because the apples don’t fall far from it.

[fua]

VOTE: Ari

I’m down for this. I think Deasvail is moving back up into my neutral category and a cursory reread of the interaction shows Ari just being difficult and trying to go for a cheap gotcha with the StD read— but then she later claims that her reads are 100% genuine? With HEM being probably town with Mathblade I think that paints the interaction in a different light and Fire hopping to Ari’s defense looks worse for it. This is also why I TRed StD for bringing up this point; I was essentially thinking the same thing, but wasn’t sure whether to press it or not becauee I was wondering if I was missing something.

[fua]

did you feel that ari was buddying you in any sort of you at that point in time?

This is what I was thinking earlier when I was talking to Mathblade.

[fua]

Bland ISO? What do you want me to do, blown up like Nordom did?

[fua]

Mmm. Salty apples.

[fua]

I would also like to mention that HEM’s style of play is easy LHF because he tends to be snappy and blunt with his play, so he was kind of looking like LHF to me which is what made me hesitate and put him in neutral instead of jumping on him immediately.

[fua]

Your tales feel very lukewarm and almost too straight/calculated and not as nuanced as some other slots. Many of your reads feel more like objective summaries/statements rather than feelings which I feel are more complicated. It could be a playstyle difference. This is purely a gut read, of course. I can do a deeper dive sometime if you would like.

What do you mean by lukewarm? Example?

[fua]

Yeah, but the difference is that I’m not jumping on whatever the most popular wagon is just because it was in style to do so. I don’t see how SRing Ari, Deas. and Fire are lukewarm takes at all considering others look at them as consensus town and I’m interested in what your definition of lukewarm actually is. Who are your scumreads besides me? At the moment it just feels like OMGUS and nothing else. Even Skitter is voting me because my takes are the opposite of hers, so these are some strange double standards.

[fua]

Fua, if you felt Ari was being scummy in the Ari v HEM fight why would you agree that Fire was scummy for being the mediator in that fight?

It wasn’t necessarily being the mediator when she directly took Ari’s side anyway. I have reasons beyond that but I would prefer not to disclose them at the moment.

[fua]

You don’t have to be unbiased to mediate and Fire has directly admitted that they took Ari’s side as well as literally stating they were playing mediator.

[fua]

They've kind of been piling on to individual wagons and their three votes have just been whatever's easiest to pick out at the time. I think their callout of Tenebro was okay but I also want to see who they actually scumread throughout today.

mm idk about this characterization. mediator, sure ok, that's just kinda what i do sometimes. dunno why thats a scummy thing.

So this doesn’t mean anything?

[fua]

Fua, if you felt Ari was being scummy in the Ari v HEM fight why would you agree that Fire was scummy for being the mediator in that fight?

because now they decided I'm not the mediator anymore cause that doesn't suit the new narrative of me "hopping to Ari's defense" (which tbh is probably more accurate anyway, i believe I was on the side of REASON and LOGIC as always but i think that was more ari's side)

If you think I’m scum now you can always vote me.

[fua]

Scum might honestly be just as easy as Wu, Yeet, Fire, and Ari.

[fua]

“Yeah, that’s fair. I tend to be on the side of reason and logic sometimes” is apparently what you said there. Which makes zero sense in that context. This is just backpedaling.

[fua]

naw, any solve without Skitter or VP is wrong.

Who would you replace?

[fua]

i side with REASON and LOGIC

Foolish. I side with FACTS and logic.

[fua]

facts are subjective

What about reason, then? I guess I could always settle for siding with reason and logic.

[fua]

Fua, are you being different here than Polish Rap b/c there are more ppl in this game??

No, I just like the players in this game more.

[fua]

Ari wagon is almost certainly pure IMO. I'm less confident that Wu's is and so many people pushing him now that others are getting suspicion makes me wary.

[fua]

I don't like to see players being rude to one another.

Ari wagon is almost certainly pure IMO. I'm less confident that Wu's is and so many people pushing him now that others are getting suspicion makes me wary.

Who is doing this? Wu does not have many votes.

Ari, Deas, and Fire are all putting Wu in their scumreads, Yeet and Skitter are trying to push a wagon on me, and VP is directly staying on Wu still (even if he's the one I least suspect out of the six).

[fua]

If Ari is town she would be putting more thought into the game than just tackling low-hanging limbait.

[fua]

Ari, Deas, and Fire are all putting Wu in their scumreads, Yeet and Skitter are trying to push a wagon on me, and VP is directly staying on Wu still (even if he's the one I least suspect out of the six).

you were the one who convinced me that wu was not such a bad lim after all. and that's still where im at, i don't think my position on wu has really changed since then. thonk

Yeah, and that was... thirty pages ago? So almost an entire half of the game passed between then and now.

[fua]

Because I don’t think you’re thinking about the game critically and are trying to deflect onto other people when possible. And I’m really not following Nero around, since I completely disagree with his reads on Mathblade, Yeet, and VP.

[fua]

I also voted Ari before Nero did while he was defending her, and TRed StD for his push on her. So even then it’s impossible for you to say I’m following Nero around just because I TR him and agree with a couple of his reads.

[fua]

im scum reading STD? news to me

Never said that. I individually TRed STD before you even considered Ari.

[fua]

The case you’re making right now about that being a pro-town response proves the point that there is scum motivation behind that.

[fua]

Because you already chainsaw defended her and voted HEM before?

[fua]

It means arguing a case for a player instead of them arguing themselves.

Fire did this with the HEM vote as well.

[fua]

Yeah, pretty much.

[fua]

I’ve been saying Nero town forever now.

[fua]

Scorp is someone who won’t defend himself and as you said, is a low poster/not participating. It’s uncontroversial LHF.

[fua]

Scorp is someone who won’t defend himself and as you said, is a low poster/not participating. It’s uncontroversial LHF.

LHF implies town alignment and I don't really see how you're making that determination.

Not necessarily, but it’s FoS because I SR you and you’re pushing him.

[fua]

Scorp is someone who won’t defend himself and as you said, is a low poster/not participating. It’s uncontroversial LHF.

LHF implies town alignment and I don't really see how you're making that determination.

Not necessarily, but it’s FoS because I SR you and you’re pushing him.

you SR me for pushing him.

you townread him because you SR me.

isn't that just circular logic?

Nope.

[fua]

that's a good point about fua

VOTE: fua

Ari and Fire scum together?

[fua]

That’s because Nero is town.

[fua]

House is permabanned.

[fua]

Ari’s wagon is pure though.

[fua]

I claim PR. You can all now feel free to get off of me.

Fire or Skitter should probably die today. I wouldn’t be opposed to Wu, but it feels like a waste right now.

[fua]

Try it and you’ll catch my vig bullet in the face tonight. No, really. Make mu day.

[fua]

I claim PR. You can all now feel free to get off of me.

Fire or Skitter should probably die today. I wouldn’t be opposed to Wu, but it feels like a waste right now.

What about Ari?

Ari is also scum, but a little less likely than the other two. Maybe she really did just make a bad push.

[fua]

If anyone else wants to claim vigilante then feel free.

[fua]

I claim PR. You can all now feel free to get off of me.

Falling back on this because addressing the accusations is too difficult?

Here’s my address of every point:

1. You stink at this.

2. I’m town.

3. My role can confirm itself tonight.

4. Get off me.

[fua]

a vig claim is totally not something a mafia would say...

Maybe you should let me confirm myself then? Limming me is the dumbest thing you can possibly do and if this is serious it’s incredibly scummy.

[fua]

a vig claim is totally not something a mafia would say...

Uh in this case yes.

Two kills or fua dies?

I’m gonna hit a mafia anyway, so… doesn’t matter if they gambit or not.

[fua]

I claim PR. You can all now feel free to get off of me.

Falling back on this because addressing the accusations is too difficult?

Here’s my address of every point:

1. You stink at this.

2. I’m town.

3. My role can confirm itself tonight.

4. Get off me.

I do not really appreciate the hypocrisy or the rudeness. Kindly stow both.

You were rude and passive aggressive to me first based on me not being able to write up a huge wall to respond to the suspicion.

It’s not hypocrisy, my counterargument to the suspicion is that I’m vigilante.

[fua]

VOTE: Skitter

[fua]

A vigilante can feel free to CC in public or tonight by shooting me. This is a stupid risk to take if I’m scum.

[fua]

fua are you gonna dislike the skitter wagon if i hop on? can we set aside our differences for a moment?

Yeah, go for it. Makes sense to me.

[fua]

I can’t believe I actually need to explain why I’m town after I claim vigilante D1.

[fua]

a vig claim is totally not something a mafia would say...

[fua]

Also Nero, why do you think there has to be scum in the neighborhood?
I sorta have the same feeling, but it could just be 4 townies too, right?

6 townies in hoods is wild.

[fua]

fua, what are your reads? doesn't have to be a list, just walk me through who's on your shitlist.

Shitlist is Skitter, Wu, Ari’s slot, Fire, Yeet, and possibly Tenebro for now. Subject to change later, and doesn’t include Eyes or Scorpious because they’re not worth pursuing at the moment.

[fua]

Depending on flips it could easily completely turn around.

[fua]

I claim PR. You can all now feel free to get off of me.

Fire or Skitter should probably die today. I wouldn’t be opposed to Wu, but it feels like a waste right now.

Try it and you’ll catch my vig bullet in the face tonight. No, really. Make mu day.

I claim PR. You can all now feel free to get off of me.

Fire or Skitter should probably die today. I wouldn’t be opposed to Wu, but it feels like a waste right now.

What about Ari?

Ari is also scum, but a little less likely than the other two. Maybe she really did just make a bad push.

If anyone else wants to claim vigilante then feel free.

This is really townie UNVOTE: fua

Whoa… no way! I never saw it that way!

[fua]

Paranoia moment: The hood is just the scumteam.

[fua]

hey fue, maybe you should shoot scorpious

I mean… that WOULD resolve the hardest slot to read.

[fua]

[fua]

VOTE: Wu

Wolfy pop-ins and lurking out of pressure. Seems good to me.

[fua]

Unless there’s a doctor then mafia has a role blocker.

[fua]

Also the four person hood is guaranteed to have a scum in it. 6 townies in hoods is wild.

[fua]

Actually, it’s more likely maf has a roleblocker. I don’t know why doc would heal a claimed PR.

[fua]

Wouldn’t*.

[fua]

Unless there’s a doctor then mafia has a role blocker.

??? who did you attempt to shoot?

Why in the everloving heck does it matter?

[fua]

Why should we vote Fua?

The vig thing. If someone promises to confirm themselves, the rigid part of me wants to hold them to it.

Lol, what? You would lim a vig claim with no CC despite the massive risk that would have to be taken just to hope that there is no CC, that I wouldn’t be shot at night, and that nobody would think it investigate me?

You’re better than this. I think you absolutely know I was roleblocked last night.

VOTE: Deasvail

[fua]

Cape, fua, did you realize you were the hammer and e1 votes respectively?i think that scum on the wagon is probably towards the end (dats/fua/cape) or in the middle bunch of std, vp, yeet

Fua who was your target last night?

I still think nero is scum in the hood and i'm not sure why you didnt end up on wu despite pusging him p hard earlier in the day
The scum-to-town spectrum in the hood imo is: nero > vp > cape

Pedit of course it matters ....

No, I didn’t realize. If I did I probably still would have voted there anyway because I didn’t TR him at all.

I didn’t ask IF it mattered. I asked WHY it mattered.

[fua]

Until I get an explanation of why it matters I’m not claiming. Skitter and DV are sus as hell for opening up the phase doubting the PR claim for no reason.

[fua]

it matters, but i can't say why until you answer, it defeats the purpose.

Someone who wasn’t a claimed PR.

[fua]

Great. Now you know it wasn’t someone who a doctor would have motivation to heal.

[fua]

Scum is deciding whether or not to RB me again tonight so they know whether or not I’ll kill a townie.

[fua]

Why does me not claiming who I shot at matter? Who the vig shoots isn’t alignment indicative at all.

[fua]

You do realize if I’m scum I could literally just say any name and it wouldn’t change anything.

[fua]

I will vote for Skitter if you do.

[fua]

Skitter is openwolfing though.

[fua]

VOTE: Skitter

Not claiming who I shot unless I get run up by people who aren’t scum.

[fua]

Fine, I shot someone whose name starts with an F. There you go.

[fua]

Like I said. Hop on skitter with me.

[fua]

Because I’m on the side of REASON and LOGIC!

[fua]

No, you just annoy me more.

[fua]

Why would I lie about shooting Fire instead of someone like Scorpious or Eyes?

[fua]

Fire is probably my top TR for what it's worth, in alignment with them on most things but just generally got a good thought process going on and logical approach.

Not Mathblade?

[fua]

Like. You tell me to be honest about who I shoot and then when I say that I shot one of my top scumreads you tell me it’s a bad shot??? I think it makes perfect sense.

[fua]

Why would you not shoot skitter?

I thought Fire’s vote on me with the ‘That’s a good point’ and her defense of Ari were more scum-oriented and also I submitted it in the first hour and didn’t think it through. I guess I didn’t want to shoot the V/LA person when they weren’t around for the end of the phase.

[fua]

Why fire?

@Skitter Why immediately hop to fire and not Frogsterking or be confused as both names start with F?

@Fua Why not jump on this?

I did.

[fua]

Like. You tell me to be honest about who I shoot and then when I say that I shot one of my top scumreads you tell me it’s a bad shot??? I think it makes perfect sense.

Because if fhat's who you shot it was a p bad shot since they're p townie

You should have shot like: in the hood, scorp, eyes, lurkers, etc

I don’t have to follow who you think is townie. Fire is scummy to me.

[fua]

Why fire?

@Skitter Why immediately hop to fire and not Frogsterking or be confused as both names start with F?

@Fua Why not jump on this?

I did.

I don’t see where you called out Skitter for assuming Fire over Frog. Can you link me? Y’all are rapid posting

Oh, I just answered ‘Why fire’. TBH I forgot Frogster had an F in his name.

[fua]

Why don’t you cherrypick my ISO and find out?

[fua]

This reads like SvS who had a precalculated fight. I think fua and Skitter can both die.

Okay, vote out the claimed vigilante who received no CC and wasn’t shot last night who also immediately received suspicion because there was no shot.

[fua]

I didnf cherrypick anything, and you're not helping

I’ll be more lenient then. Go LOOK at my ISO.

[fua]

i hope fua is town

3 people immediately hopped on me for there being only one NK despite the fact that me being RBed is much more likely than me deciding to claim a role that can immediately verify itself on the next night and can be easily CCed during the day AND during night in case a vig doesn’t feel like outing during the day when I could have gone for some other much easier role that would have been much, much harder to disprove. There are far too many risks I would have to take to even begin to claim Vig over something like BG, Doc, etc.

[fua]

Why would you be shot last night ?

Pedit the irony

Because if there’s a vig they would know I’m lying?????? ???

[fua]

This reads like SvS who had a precalculated fight. I think fua and Skitter can both die.

Okay, vote out the claimed vigilante who received no CC and wasn’t shot last night who also immediately received suspicion because there was no shot.

How about instead of playing defense do offense? If you think Skitter is scum who with?

What do you make of fire validating my scum tell theory on D1?

What is your scum tell theory again and how did Fire validate it?

[fua]

Yeah, I didn’t understand what that meant so I ignored it.

[fua]

I didnf cherrypick anything, and you're not helping

Why would you not shoot skitter?

I thought Fire’s vote on me with the ‘That’s a good point’ and her defense of Ari were more scum-oriented and also I submitted it in the first hour and didn’t think it through. I guess I didn’t want to shoot the V/LA person when they weren’t around for the end of the phase.

Ok i missed this, apologies:
- not sure why you think their vote/defense of ari were scum motivated
- appreciate the latter but feel free to shoot me next time if you think i'm the sucmmiest

I will if I end up surviving.

[fua]

Yeah, no. This is getting frustrating because I’m 99% sure I was roleblocked and being told that my reads are bad and gaslit when I’m 100% sure I’m vig is making me view this game in an unhealthy mindset. Sorry, but I need to replace out for my own mental health. Peace.

[fua]

April was town???