hi, i'm large normal 242. and i'm over with.

[Fennec]

Hello to everyone here! I just woke up quite recently, let me get adjusted to the day and I’ll be talkin a little more, doin a little more. Good luck to everyone too! I have no reads at all, it’s been literally 34 posts and I just woke the fuck up.

[Fennec]

I will place some ideas out, I think i can give cape a decent town read... like a Null leaning town. everyone else? i gotta read up more on their meta and the game needs to progress more. For now, I'll be gone for an hour, i just woke up.

[Fennec]

Kill it with fire!

VOTE: Nero Cain

No one threatens a kitty on my watch and lived to see the night!

What if it is a demonic cat? You never know! it could be the mafia's pet or just a pet. or a feral cat. I don't care about the specifics, but it still can be a piece of crap or evil. It is cute though that is agreeable.

[Fennec]

Alright Post 50 or so reads (Take all with a grain of salt by a massive quantity, its too early to get full reads)

Cape - Pulling a lot of reads out the backside. and scum do that a lot. also, its so early so I doubt you can get any "I'll Explain Later" Level reads. Generally can't tell between town/scum with this guy. its hard to read him.
Frog - He is actually asking some important questions, and his reads aren't out his backside too much. I'm Leaning to town with him.
Nero Cain - I can't accurately get a read off him, but he feels dodgy.
SirRhett - Starts off with a joke, just like in the newbie game he is in. although, that joke is a bit different. in the game he did that joke (It was basically joking around that he was scum because his predecessor was read as scum quite early on) and was a bit like a pair like in that game. this read relies on that game he is in to progress more foward though, but i do have a meta read that i can't say is town/scum at the same time, because that game isn't over yet. Although, this is a resource that I might use to read him, the game is like D1, so this is the one to take the most grains of salt (For now at least!)
Everyone else? Needs to post more, and I need to read a little more about them and their meta first.

[Fennec]

^ Noticed a heck ton of issues with grammar and with spelling.
So this is the one to take the most grains of salt with*
The multiple Lowercase I mistakes because i'll be honest I slightly rushed typing it
And yes, I'm only pointing out the SirRhett one for later. do not take it as a read right now, extremely Developing read there. Take it with 10000 Grains of salt of the size of mars, please. I'm listing it down in case it is somehow useful. And yes, its of a D1 Game. I don't think I should be using it as discussion, so I won't use that game unless its important to a read on him. I'm gonna read some of your meta soon, but not right now.


Also i just realise I broke a rule, won't happen again. also Nero's read is kinda bad too. Ignore that read post's 2nd half. sorry about that, I be dense.

[Fennec]

Yeah i went from Town-Leaning to Null to Scum-Leaning for cape within 30 posts. I was finding it kinda dodgy but could of been town, but now I'm thinking it is plain dodgy. none of them made sense and were literally 20-30 posts in. and yes Early/Late blah blah can be true mattering on the player no surprise there. And also, Frog seems Town-Leaning to me, and I fully agree with him. also, the Post 69 is Dodgy as all hell.

VOTE: Cape

[Fennec]

It's literally only been hours and only half of people have even posted. that's literally not in your favour. Plus, your bringing up frickin Mafia.gg, come on. its a game with 6 minute days and 2 Minute days. also, wow bringing up totally the exact same scenario where the accuser flipped scum! Curious. Curious indeed. I don't fuckin buy it sorry. If you reference your own meta or reference what you can do as scum compared to what you can do with town or a different scum role, Your like Scum. How do i know the 2nd part is scum usually? Because i did it years back when I was getting into town of salem as scum. And the 1st part? that is a rule as old as time mate, that you don't reference your own Meta, especially Scum Meta. another thing too: Claiming I've never been this role/team, usually means you are that role/team. its less reliable but something i've seen been used by scum easily. also, I said MY Nero read was bad. sorry for that issue with wording.

[Fennec]

Alright some better reads this time
Frog - Probably Town for now. made a lot of good points.
Nero - Leaning Town. I felt he was a little dodgy before, but he only had 2 posts. with some actual posts He reads a lot like a town, also bringing up a lot of good points and being a scapegoat for a guy acting the most scum by the stupidest reason ever of "They are swaying you. this is bad. i won't fucking say why"
Marc - Slightly Leaning Town. Needs to talk more though.
Cape - Probably Scum. If he turns out not scum, Nero/Frog could be more scum than I thought yes, but most likely he's just using a shitty argument for why they are bad, so it would be a slight tilt. I've already mentioned why in post 81 why he is so suspicious, as well as the "They are swaying you. this is bad. i won't fucking say why" post. Parking my ass on this guy till he posts an actually good defense and not a shitty one. and also I agree with the fence sitting that he is doing. and i doubt all 4 mafia are somehow online at the same time to push a guy, as i doubt 4/5 people actively talking can be mafia.

[Fennec]

About Post 90, An extremely trash attack, and I wasn't mentioning that as the defense, although it does make him a lot more suspicous and makes me want to see a non "I haven't gotten scum uhh huhhh i've played mafia.gg and always had 2 scum reads by d2 and i'm gonna ignore the fact its a 6 minute day 2 minute night mafia game uhhh huhh" as a response to his accusations, and also actually defend, instead of striking at someone random and the accuser.

[Fennec]

This guy's defense could be called Ricochet defense at this point. he just keeps bouncing off and attacking people instead of giving a real defense in various degrees of randomness and intensity. also yes mafia.gg players are shit. thats a fact. I have played it and there are a lot of shit players. its surprising how bad some of them are. some are decent though.

[Fennec]

^ But most quite bad

[Fennec]

Pooky, read through logs. ISO Cape specifically. you may understand why we are voting them

[Fennec]

Crescent hasn't even been here, so I don't understand why you'd pivot to them right now

[Fennec]

I'm Reading back, and I think i'm gonna for now, unvote. I'm gonna wait for some more posts to roll in, everyone to do some posts, then get some better reads. I'm starting to feel very unsure about them, and I need to see more posts by everyone and the others not posting to just damn post. Because of time zones, that is probably tomorrow for me.
UNVOTE: Cape

[Fennec]

Also while Cape still feels dodgy, I'm starting to feel that dodginess about some other people, But i'm probably paranoid. I'm gonna wait out the hours, see the next hundred posts and more people to place some stuff before i'll be talkin and doin things. I need to think through this a little more and need some more stuff to work with.

[Fennec]

These are some decent points. I'm probably gonna scavenge through some posts, and get some Ideas. out of the 3 of you, I'm moderately certain one of you is scum. A flip out of Cape or Nero to me would give the most information at this current stage, In my opinion.

[Fennec]

Despite the good... whatever the water thing was, I'm not seeing much answers from nero. Still, can't make out who is scum and town currently between you 3, but I'm really starting to think one of you is definitely mafia while i'm reading back through the posts.

[Fennec]

I expected a lot more posts when I woke up. anyways Nero never answered the questions, Cape besides the odd read thing is doing fine, and frog seems town enough. So out of the 3 which I’d assume there would be 1 scum most likely because I doubt it’s TTvT with the Nero case.

I’m Thinking Nero is mafia out of the 3, It is such a high chance 1 of you is mafia, so I’m gonna go with this

VOTE: Nero

Also my Post 55 reads despite being trash might of been more right with cape/frog/Nero than my later leads, because I called nero as dodgy yet Frog/Cape town. Seriously ignore that post though.

[Fennec]

So I'm Placing this out there: A LOT of the people on the list have posted like a max of 3 posts, Let alone with content inside them, which is even higher. at least 1-2 of them are probabbblyyy mafia due to the amount.
To me, I think Gamma/Greeting/Nero are dodgy to me. Frog/Cape/Gamma/Nero/Greeting to me feel like a set of people with definitely 1 maf, could even be 2. All 5 of you are just to me Kinda Dodgy. As usual when the game has changed but I still need a lot more information, I'm gonna have to revoke my Vote

UNVOTE: Nero

But be warned, next time i'm voting I'm actually gonna be parking my ass right down on ya.

[Fennec]

Ok, I've got questions/answers for EVERYBODY

Nero - Making a water... thing or joke or whatever discrediting what people were saying isn't an answer to me. what is an answer to you, and where have you sent one?

Greeting - Is cape's actions, somehow town to you though, does he do this every game? because if he does, it is a real easy meta to replicate as scum, and in general, very scummy. Because from my experience in other games and reading through some of these games, It seems like a general, Scum type of play.

Frog - Why did you swerve to crescent, and why was one of the earliest things you said about cape was to Marcistas: Does this seem TvT? Like, why would you immediately assume that 10 posts after you accused him? also, why did you out of the gate think Marcistas was a good person to trust, of all people, and why so early, either? You were calling them basically good with little substance ever sent from them? They even called this out in a joking manner out too at one point when you mentioned +EV. (Which means jackshit if they are evil, because they already know everyone's alignment)

Gamma - I don't find you TOO Dodgy, but I'd like to know: How does Greeting usually play to you, and how does current greeting play match up?

Kitty - You have no Questions. Congrats. Maybe talk a little more too.

Pooky - Can you actually discuss instead of just voting? I know your a possessed bear without a mouth cavity but I'd like to hear at least some noise from you!

Maria - I don't have questions for you now but I might have some later.

Charloux - I Might agree with your vote ideas as being kinda dodgy, but still serve some reasons, I'd like to seem em.

Marcistas - Why did you watch most of the early events during Post 50 - 200 Yet not Talk about them with substance at all?

SirRhett - Some more in-depth views of the game?

Save the Dragons - Nice to see ya! once you've read through, any ideas on the state of the game?

Toogeloo - No questions really. although I think a more in-depth post is something I'd like to see be posted though

Malcolm - Thoughts on the game state right now?

Everyone else I didn't mention literally has posted 0, besides an entrance post I'd say.

[Fennec]

Oh yeah in the post I forgot about cape, but I don't think I have any questions for em right now, like literally 0. not even a message to tag along with the question. Maybe later I'll have some shit for him but not at all right now, Because the other people are the ones I want info from the most.

[Fennec]

discrediting what people were saying isn't an answer to me.

ok then whats the question I'm supposed to be answering and why have I had to ask you this 4 times now?

Go back to when you were first accused mate. you basically did in a joking way, a discredit of what they said, and not actual reasoning about the actions they were mentioning. we are talking about the water post here.

[Fennec]

If you look at page 6-7 You should find your accusation there, By the way.

[Fennec]

I'll agree the accusations were kinda shit, how you reacted to it is why I'm mainly suspicious of you. and testing out the waters which you were claimed to do, definitely seems like a possibility to me. An Answer could be why those actions where taken? and why were you so aggressive within the pages you were accused on? also can I also ask cape: Why did you mention nero swaying frog into voting ya? also maria was the one to start the nero vote so I'm also wondering what made ya do it maria? I'm reading back a bit, the original accusation and vote on nero was a bit out there, but your reaction to it is what really made me kinda doubting of you being town. Nero your a little bit less suspicious when reading back, so I'll cut ya the slack.

[Fennec]

Yeah I need maria to actually answer a question now: Why the fuck did you vote nero? You never gave a reason, let Cape/Frog do the accusation then just tagged the fuck on with that accusation and its reasoning?

[Fennec]

Really nice fuckin post. Your bringing up a lot of things I agree with or never thought of.

1 - Why the fuck did we swerve from cape at all
2 - Why did maria voting someone make Cape/Frog just fucking accuse them into shit, then maria tags along with the accusation that they never made, despite being the initiator of the vote on them, and the entire reason an accusation started (While it wasn't theirs at all, despite it starting from them) And yes IK you didn't directly mention this, but the "Originally TR" gives me the vibe that you noticed that.
3 - The playstyle mention is something I'm agreeing with.
4 - Yeah, Cape's post is suspicious as all hell. and so much of his later posts too.

[Fennec]

Ok. Your clear of the questions for now nero, because as i read through and your more current responses were posted, Your fucking RIGHT.

So Can I have some answers, some shit from
Cape, Frog, Maria, Charloux
Maria could be a Town that was used as a reason to pivot off, or just plain scum. Probably the Former, but the Latter is likely.
Charloux is a very minor suspicion, But i do think you should answer some of the things Save put out.
Frog had a bit of a fucking random pivot to a guy that isn't even here, then when maria voted accused nero with cape and then voted them for some pretty dogshit reasons. also my questions in my question post would be nice to see answered
Cape, If I rated Scum to town on a scale of -10 to +10 (- being scummy, + being town) You are like -5 to -7. I'm Betting 90% you'd flip scum. a flip from you gives a massive set of information to work with for D2, If you'd flip town or scum you'd still give a lot of information for D2.

I'm Gonna propose this
Cape, Frog, Maria, Charloux, Greeting, Nero, Crescent. Between this group, I'd say you'd have 2-4 Mafia here. within this core group of people for sure you'd find at least 2, probably 3.

Between them, I'd rate

Most Likely To Flip Town (This bar is basically Null/Null-Leaning)
Nero
Crescent (Definitely a Null Read, ever so slightly to town as they were randomly swerved on when they aren't even fucking here)
Charloux
Maria
Frog
Greeting

MASSIVE FUCKING GAP HERE

Cape
Least Likely To Flip Town

Also, Cape why the fuck are you thinking it is so dodgy to vote greeting? and why greeting are you somehow thinking cape is town from your perspective? also, Most of your reads ended up being some of the closer to Null or Scum people in the list too in that early set, and how were you able to judge one post as evil or townie? tell me. I asked it 250 posts ago, still wondering it now.

Also maria here is the post i want you to read a little behind and then a little foward for what I mean

Glad to see out of the 100 posts almost none of them were that helpful given how objectively nai they were

but hey VOTE: Nero it wasn't all that bad

if you read, Frog goes from Cape to Swerving to crescent randomly then completely agrees with cape on nero just around the page before and the next 2 pages after, with most of that action taking place in this page.

[Fennec]

Basically, start from the page before (Page 4) then go to 2 pages after (Page 7) this is were the nero swerve happens and a bit before it to get why it is so confusing

[Fennec]

I don't know what the fuck the post above me is. anyways, what i was saying is, you Initiated the vote but Frog/Cape swerved from each other to nero within that page because of that vote. You started the vote on nero, yet had literally no part in accusing him, all that was done by Cape and Frog.

So... These are the things I need to know: Is Maria Mafia trying to get cape out of a wagon, Or is Maria a town member that made the nero vote honestly, which has been pocketed by mafia as an easy Mislim, or are they just town and weren't at all? Is Frog a mafia member with cape as his partner, or trying to butter up an idiotic townie, and thats why the randomly swerved off them to the completely awol guy then nero due to your vote, or is frog just town that honestly thought nero was suspicous? of cause, the mafia already know. but we don't. that is one of the things that makes social deduction fun after all, finding which scenario is the true one that is happening as town, and as scum, controlling the scenario enough to survive, and win.

I'm starting to map out some interactions between people at the moment, and see where there are some odd anomalies, contradictions and just plain obvious pairs in game, because I think it is quite necessary for me to tell where there is some odd shit. also if those are sets of 1F1s, whether they contain 4 maf to you or just some, or are these fights/arguments to you, I don't know. but if its the former, Literally no one at this point can be considered part of a 1f1 scenario, really. It could turn out all the maf are lurking in plain sight, and are just watching us fight? most likely not, but we never know. It could be literally both in a set, Like both nero and frog could be evil, both pooky/gamma could be evil, etc. I doubt both, but it is still possible. just like there being only 1 maf among these 9, or all 4 are in this. I'd say there would be at least 2 in this set though.

[Fennec]

Frog, am I allowed to say you are making yourself seem very scummy

[Fennec]

Hey also frog, I read back. 9 minutes after I sent my read of cape being evil, you flipped your read and voted cape. and I ain't, I was trying to be polite to scum, even though they don't deserve it. I'm betting it now, 70% you flip scum friend.

[Fennec]

Also, Can you answer my question post matey, you still haven't done that

[Fennec]

From Post 264 - Frog - Why did you swerve to crescent, and why was one of the earliest things you said about cape was to Marcistas: Does this seem TvT? Like, why would you immediately assume that 10 posts after you accused him? also, why did you out of the gate think Marcistas was a good person to trust, of all people, and why so early, either? You were calling them basically good with little substance ever sent from them? They even called this out in a joking manner out too at one point when you mentioned +EV. (Which means jackshit if they are evil, because they already know everyone's alignment)

by "You accused him" I Meant vote. clearing that up. and sorry bout that Frog.

[Fennec]

No literally I just checked you thought you and cape were TvT and asked marcistas if she thought though literally 8 Posts after vote. and also, you did that vote 9 Minutes after I sent those shitty reads. not a problem, I'm just keeping track of it for later

[Fennec]

Not every thought I out at every moment, frog. I kinda did always find you a bit off, but mostly town. there is a reason I put you, cape, and nero together as one is definitely scum then, because you did give me a bit of a dodgy feeling. Plus, I was able to reread the posts, as I'm filling a log of posts in a document as well as relationships with players between players to see for contradictions and later reference, and I caught that then, as well as MarciaR leading the Nero vote, yet you and cape being the main "Spearhead" of the accusation against them. also, fucking read through my posts sure mate. In fact, if you weren't reading through my posts I'd assume you were a bad player or scum, Because you should be paying attention to most people's posts. and you still never answered why you swerved to crescent, the most fucking random vote you could of done, the person with just a joking entry post. they are probably gonna be replaced I'd say.

[Fennec]

How in hell is that openwolfing, frog, I can just enter the fucking PT if i was maf and say: Lets Obliterate Frog lol I've got some posts we could use to dig dirt on him lmao lets get his ass. There is literally no point to Openwolfing when all mafia can communicate A T D A Y

[Fennec]

My avatar is a wolf to ya? I'm gonna ignore the big massive ears, the yellow pelt coloration, how small it is, and the tail. It's a fennec fox. I can understand kinda how you could mix that up, but at the same time can't.

[Fennec]

also, by my idea of openwolfing, You are openly, Signalling to your scumteam. If it means to you something different, tell me, but there is no reason to openly signal when you can just use your maf PT, also, still asking why the fuck you went to crescent. that is the main thing I want answered, But you haven't once, you didn't even when I asked you when you voted them.

[Fennec]

Oh and the thing that I meant you probably should be able to tell is via tail size, I don't think wolf tails are 70 Centimetres long, are they? But who really gives a shit. and also, Crumbing your voting the guy who hadn't posted a single time, then following their vote and accusing that voted player?

[Fennec]

also I think I was crumbing I didn't trust not just cape/nero in posts 140-160, I did mention I was starting to feel like other people were dodgy, but didn't specifically call just nero out, then downplayed it by saying "I Must be paranoid" Which I did actually think then, Moderately, but not fully. After Nero's Water thing I mentioned one out of You, Cape, Nero Was definitely scum. I also think I mentioned at some point that it might be real unlikely but a 2 Maf in 3 People COULD of been possible (Hinting that I did think You/Cape being both evil was actually possible if nero Flipped Town) So about me having thoughts changing, they were kindaaa changing already by the 150-200 mark, but its basically just increased by recent posts. and yeah I can see you crumbed them, but why did you vote and accuse nero, right after they voted them though? I'd expect you to have a little more questions for them, not go along with their vote.

[Fennec]

And how was I disrupting the thread, exactly?

[Fennec]

Alright here is a post away from the topic because I have nothing to really say about the post before. Who to me, Seems like they could be in a team with another player (Really basic at the current state though, Not much reasoning, as i'm looking through posts and still making a List of them i've noticed)

Greeting = Cape. Basically both protect each other in Indirect ways, like Greeting asking why we scumread Cape, when it was plainly Fuckin Obvious, trying to push for an answer when it already exists if you just read the fuck back down the posts, and Cape basically saying "Greeting voters are scummy" For absolutely no fucking reason when that made n o s e n s e to say. then retracts it when it is mentioned why, and says it has changed with posts, when greeting has barely posted any extra at all between him mentioning that and him dismissing it

Maria =? Cape. Could of been Deflecting off with that vote. So its a slight read that they might be both in a team, or at least same alignment. But this is the one I have less suspicions with as being a pair. but it is, well possible.

You =? Cape. Why did you go from This guy is town, to flipping your read within 8 posts of me mentioning cape was suspicious, then when nero is voted by maria, you 2 both suddenly agree nero is fishing and blah blah? and also, how is Cape Obv town? this feels more of a one-way connection though, as cape hasn't done much towards you to make you seem town or thinks you are town, but you have by a lot. and you kinda did a chainsaw with Dragons.

The funny thing is, Cape is the only one I've noticed having just odd interactions with people like this. I mean Gamma/Greeting had one odd interaction, but he has had a lot more regular ones and more numerous ones.

Also, Why did you vote dragons right after maria "To Get people on your side to vote em" Most likely with some good reasoning, everyone would of been on board, Plus I had already raised some suspicions against them, you could of easily manipulated me as maf or just got me to vote them, or use some of my reasoning as reason to vote them if you couldn't pull up your own anyways. You'd probably be able to get MariaR Obliterated way easier than getting Dragons eliminated too, so were you going off your maf as maf, because you realised they would probably die? and why specifically call out crescent voters to go on them? that is just random. Plus, I think there was only a meme vote on them too, besides your own. about the maria thing, I agree they are scummy yes. But the way you went about it made it seem kinda dodgy.

[Fennec]

Yeah you assume right. they are rhetorical.

[Fennec]

I'll talk more about my reads and all that shit once I get my sleep, Read all the way back like I have been doing lately for a list of Important posts.

also greeting how does me flipping scum, make toogeloo suspicious. like please tell me. like actually, how do you somehow, pull that out your ass though. Like why is that specifically, the name you draw from the hat as also scum if I flip scum? also, What is gamma doing specifically to solve the game here? Despite calling me someone pulling names out of the hat, I haven't seen a single more in-depth post from them. I don't find them scummy at all, I'm just wondering why that is the specific person drawn from the hat. and also, still asking why you thought cape was specifically good, like even cape pointed that out (Although, that was when I mentioned him oddly against all of your votes, and how you were so protective of him as well)