hi, i'm large normal 242. and i'm over with.

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: pooky RVS it's a stuffed bear how can it talk

I may or may not post my survey start

__

Players I can read well:

Gamma Emerald
Nero Cain
Greeting
KittyTacky
Crescent
PookyTheMagicalBear

Players I can't read well:

Toogeloo
MalcolmTucker

Players I don't know or it remains to be determined how well I can read:

Fennec
Charloux
MariaR
Cape90
SirRhett
Save The Dragons
marcistar

[Frogsterking]

I'm just glad I am here and not 9 pages behind like last large game lmao

I'm just glad I am here and not 9 pages behind like last large game lmao

Is that the one we were both in you're talking about? Nightmare flashbacks of trying to catch up with about 60 pages after D1 only to end up voted out D2 anyway.

I have pleasant memories from this game, FWIW.

PEdit

Cape is probably town for townbinning me based on questionable logic.

[Frogsterking]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88987

This is the game cape, malcolm and I are referring to. I wasn't Town in that game, so my memories are pleasant as the experience from my point of view was waking up to 60 new pages of Town tearing itself apart like rabid dogs.

[Frogsterking]

I want you to effort marci, I think your reads might be +EV.

Oh shoot I'm exiting my scum meta, I didn't mean to do that so quickly.

*lurks out*

[Frogsterking]

whats ev mean

Expected value, meaning if we sheep your reads we hit scum more often than random chance.

[Frogsterking]

What if it is a demonic cat? You never know! it could be the mafia's pet or just a pet. or a feral cat. I don't care about the specifics, but it still can be a piece of crap or evil. It is cute though that is agreeable.

Lmao I hope Fennec is Town. They definitely aren't afraid to post in the thread.

I'll tentatively townbin cape for moving the game forward and fennec for being unafraid to post in the thread.

[Frogsterking]

Frogsterking - "I may or may not post my survey start"

Gamma Emerald - Comment on elaborating something later.

Speaking of moving the game forward, cape can you justify townleaning these two above in some way that makes it seem like you

didn't

just throw a bunch of names together?

[Frogsterking]

Frogsterking - "I may or may not post my survey start"

Gamma Emerald - Comment on elaborating something later.

Speaking of moving the game forward, cape can you justify townleaning these two above in some way that makes it seem like you

didn't

just throw a bunch of names together?

I find posting about posting the survey start thing to be completely pointless if you are mafia here as that part can easily be left out. It felt like random insecurity over... nothing which to me says towny concern.

As far as the read on Gamma, I guess it shows this thing I see town usually do to where they would have these "secret" reads on people that they want to share

later

. I just hardly see mafia do this.

Okay.

[Frogsterking]

I think Cape is probably telling the truth, so kind of a free sort for me considering I didn't have them in my "can read" pile.

[Frogsterking]

telling the truth about 50?

Yeah

[Frogsterking]

Slow start, wouldn't like spamming the thread too much but

Why did you perceive that it was a slow start?

PEdit

Fennec you can't use games which haven't been completed yet against someone, it's considered OGI (out of game influence)

Completed games are fair play for data mining meta tells, as well as linking to and analyzing, though.

[Frogsterking]

Fennec prob town though. Scum might try to avoid breaking site rules, yeah?

I agree. Do you think I'm jumping ahead of myself as far as cape goes?

[Frogsterking]

It's all good Fennec your reads make sense and it seems like you know how to play these games.

[Frogsterking]

idk man, I think scum do "will explain later" alot. Maybe it's just them mimicking townplay but its not something that scum never does. We can jusge Gamma once he comes back with his reasoning but I'm not a fan of yours.

I usually find

early = town
later = scum

Is there a reason you’re making an exception for me then, assuming I’ve read this right?

I'm going to go ahead and Town read Gamma with

very low

certainty for asking a question which seems unlikely to be scum motivated.

PEdit

I'm going to go ahead and flip my read on Cape

VOTE: Cape

[Frogsterking]

been playing a lot of turbo style games recently so I think it's that :p

I don't believe you, sorry. I played thousands of hours on EM and I never had an impulse to instantly go "oh damn these 4 people are Town for xyz" unless I was scum.

[Frogsterking]

What makes you think I'm being influenced by Nero?

[Frogsterking]

why is being swayed by nero even a bad thing?

Do Cape and I look TvT yes or no?

[Frogsterking]

YEET YEET

I mean Cape. Ah shit

*lurks*

[Frogsterking]

What's up with the random nero shade, Cape? What was the impetus for that?

[Frogsterking]

Holy crap my sample size of 7 indicates maf.gg players are trash.

[Frogsterking]

Holy crap my sample size of 7 indicates maf.gg players are trash.

I'm scarred now.

[Frogsterking]

Cape I just nailed the PoE called 2/2 scum townread everyone else on D2, do I get a prize?

Oh shit my sample size of players on maf.gg is about to increase from 7 to like 25, wish me luck.

[Frogsterking]

Cape I just nailed the PoE called 2/2 scum townread everyone else on D2, do I get a prize?

Oh shit my sample size of players on maf.gg is about to increase from 7 to like 25, wish me luck.

wow im so cool

oh wait you are talking about your own mafia.gg game lmao, I thought you were mocking me or something

Yes I just played a game and there was only one helpful player in the lobby and I nailed the PoE perfect on D2 (despite no alignment flip from the D1 lim) and then somehow we lost.

I tried to play a second game but I became a spectator despite clearly clicking "become player" and accepting the ready check before the game started.

[Frogsterking]

and then somehow we lost.

By somehow I mean a lot of spammy navel-gazing.

[Frogsterking]

It's Tuesday night...did everyone get a date or something?

Ye.

[Frogsterking]

Sirrhett, do you have any reads other than fennec and cape?

UNVOTE: cape VOTE: crescent

For something something. Also, based on 75.

[Frogsterking]

Crescent hasn't even been here, so I don't understand why you'd pivot to them right now

I'm a deep thinker.

[Frogsterking]

I find posting about posting the survey start thing to be completely pointless if you are mafia here as that part can easily be left out. It felt like random insecurity over... nothing which to me says towny concern.

Does this transfer analogically to sirrhett's comment in 113 about their rvs joke?

I need more reads from Pooky, Nero and Charlotte by the way.

I'd like marci to elaborate on the rationale for their malcolm read.

114 had an intent behind it which may have chang

PEdit

Thank you for volunteering Maria. Can you talk more about which posts you consider AI vs NAI?

[Frogsterking]

Not much, I suppose the conversation about Nero was the most interesting thing said in the thread so far besides the busywork questions.

Why, who and where?

[Frogsterking]

my vote is for sale to the highest bidder until sunday

I am making Pooky a Double Voter today. Wherever Pooky Votes, my vote follows. No questions asked.

I bid a guaranteed hit on scum D1 and at elo with no promises in between. Do I get to be a triple voter?

[Frogsterking]

Not much, I suppose the conversation about Nero was the most interesting thing said in the thread so far besides the busywork questions.

Why, who and where?

Fourth question: what do you predict marci's rationale will be for their suspicion on MalcolmTucker?

[Frogsterking]

@Crescent

How is it going keeping up with my iso so far?

[Frogsterking]

I find all of the commotion around me strange like with the whole Frogster/Nero thing which I feel like Nero actually looked better coming off of that

Can you reflect on this a little bit? Go deeper?

[Frogsterking]

Frogsterking - "I may or may not post my survey start"

I started with a joke here because there’s not much else to do in the RVS. Feel like there is a lot of players that we haven’t heard from yet. Looking forward to hearing more.

__

No. But you made it clear you don't understand the fundamental difference between the two for some reason.

Difference is leaving a way to back out? As scum by bring up the survey start I have some accountability for it later, meaning I would be less likely to bring it up if I weren't even sure I wanted to use it? Whereas Sirrhett is commenting on something he already did.

[Frogsterking]

Oh yeah, I forgot to talk about Nero

Like I know I have said Nero has been hedgy

But at least Nero has been direct with how they feel about my slot 49/53

I feel like some random thoughts that Nero has had have looked like they had a towny throughline such as 57/80, specifically, "If he's scum that read on Gamma for slightly silly reasoning looks like buddying."/90.

So Nero has been direct with his suspicion on me and has had some posts that I feel like would be strange if he were mafia ie. mafia know I am flipping town so immediately partnering me up with Gamma doesn't feel scum motivated.

You're probably Town BUT your analysis on Nero is lacking in critical thinking. You need to find your inner zen and try again with Nero.

[Frogsterking]

What do you think of Nero?

Scum

[Frogsterking]

What do you think of Nero?

Scum

It's possible I'm being too harsh on you. What do you think is motivating Nero in 80?

[Frogsterking]

What do you think of Nero?

Scum

It's possible I'm being too harsh on you. What do you think is motivating Nero in 80?

[Frogsterking]

I'm Reading back, and I think i'm gonna for now, unvote. I'm gonna wait for some more posts to roll in, everyone to do some posts, then get some better reads. I'm starting to feel very unsure about them, and I need to see more posts by everyone and the others not posting to just damn post. Because of time zones, that is probably tomorrow for me.
UNVOTE: Cape

Smart choice!

[Frogsterking]

What do you think of Nero?

Scum

It's possible I'm being too harsh on you. What do you think is motivating Nero in 80?

I am not sure, especially paired with 82, I could see it being chummy or like testing the waters u know

Yes exactly, chummy

and

testing the waters more like.

Do you think Nero is more or less likely to write 80 the way it's written if he knows for a fact that both you and I are both Town?

Also notice how Nero doesn't vote you in 80 but chooses to naked vote you in 84 a couple of minutes later. I wonder if 81 influenced his choice to vote you at the time he did.

[Frogsterking]

Also while Cape still feels dodgy, I'm starting to feel that dodginess about some other people, But i'm probably paranoid. I'm gonna wait out the hours, see the next hundred posts and more people to place some stuff before i'll be talkin and doin things. I need to think through this a little more and need some more stuff to work with.

I agree Cape appeared dodgy and I think it was because he was reacting defensively under pressure. I think you, Cape and I are probably Town with

low certainty

. You unvoted instead of getting trapped in a tunnel, so props to you for recognizing that. What do you think about my points against Nero in 144?

[Frogsterking]

Down the line if Nero flips scum the vote could mean something, but not now

Nero is never going to flip scum so that fixes that problem but I don't get what you are saying here.

Yes exactly, chummy and testing the waters more like.

chummy to who? Also, there were no extra votes or pressure between my 80 and 84 so your "testing the waters" theory doesn't hold

WATER

.

My 84 wasn't naked. As Cape correctly points out I voted him for 69 wich I had not gotten to yet as my 80 ends at 61.

Sorry you rolled scum.

[Frogsterking]

Players I can read well:

Gamma Emerald -- Not sure where his head is at right now. Town?
Nero Cain -- Scum. Outside Townrange.
Greeting -- Not sure/maybe scum/instincts hope Town
KittyTacky -- Town
Crescent -- AWOL
PookyTheMagicalBear -- Maybe scum/maybe has a good read on Greeting

Updated.

I think marci, cape, sirrhett, charloux and fennec are town with

low

certainty. I'm glad to see Fennec is voting Nero. I'm

low

pushing

moderate

certainty this is a scum flip.

Town:

• Gamma
  Kitty
  Marci
  Cape
  Sirrhet
  Charloux
  Fennec

Scum:

• Nero

If Crescent is Town I suggest they demonstrate that by using my PoE as a starting point and showing where they can improve on the sorting.

[Frogsterking]

I’m open to voting Charloux or Claire rn

What?

[Frogsterking]

Not much, I suppose the conversation about Nero was the most interesting thing said in the thread so far besides the busywork questions.

Why, who and where?

Why: Because it was the closest thing to anything revealing said in my eyes but I understand people TR things easier than I do.
Who: Between Nero and Cape
Where: 49-54

Not much, I suppose the conversation about Nero was the most interesting thing said in the thread so far besides the busywork questions.

Why, who and where?

Fourth question: what do you predict marci's rationale will be for their suspicion on MalcolmTucker?

I didn't read on so I still don't know but I also don't really care or see the point on such speculation unless this was a trap question

Gamma/Nero can get votes no opinion on other people

Maria, can you post a reads list?

[Frogsterking]

Oh Greeting was asking me how I was and then I never answered.

I am fine :p

Glad to hear that! I like your new avi.

Oh no.

[Frogsterking]

I’m open to voting Charloux or Claire rn

What?

If you’re referring to me saying Claire, that’s what I call MariaR since she has/had multiple public alts she would use in conjunction. I didn’t shift into calling her that exclusively until recently though.

Okay. Thank you for explaining.

She just said she had no other reads, are you fr?

I didn't realize how recent that was. My question stands anyway I guess but I realize it's kind of stupid now. Do you have any thoughts on her play so far?

[Frogsterking]

Of course y’all are just going to assume that I was pocketing

Cape90

, I can’t just say I like his avi anymore.

Greeting is exiting their Town range.

[Frogsterking]

Town:

Gamma
Kitty
Marci
Cape
Sirrhet
Charloux
Fennec

Scum:

Nero

How certain are you on you Kitty read?

Never mind, I see the quote above but why? What makes Kitty out of their scum range right now?

Good question, let me check.

Of course y’all are just going to assume that I was pocketing

Cape90

, I can’t just say I like his avi anymore.

Greeting is exiting their Town range.

Legitimately never seen Greeting as scum but thinking this might be it fr unfortunately.

Like I am not feeling that they are being as helpful as I know they can be

I have played against it before and they got rekt on D2 but their team went on to win the game. I read the scum chat after the game and it seemed like Greeting was very active in the PT and tried to carry by helping their team play better. If this is scum!Greeting expect them to be suspiciously absent for a while (coaching/planning in the PT) then make a bunch of dramatic, townie looking posts which fool the newer players.

PEdit

What about Maria do you like? Toogle isn't a player I've had great success reading in the past, though usually when I see someone do the double vote thing they're Town.

[Frogsterking]

Press X to doubt

On my statement or on Greeting's alignment?

[Frogsterking]

Never mind, I see the quote above but why? What makes Kitty out of their scum range right now?

IDK I guess it's purely an intuition read. Sorry. Do you have any experience with scum!kitty?

I really think Gamma is Town now. This is reminding me of town!Gamma from TFT where it felt like they were omnipresent to answer questions and help improve the PoE I was building with a constant supply of tone reads and meta reads.

[Frogsterking]

I kinda get this towny bluntness vibe from Maria. I believe if Maria were scum, in 119 they probably would have just gave reads.

Interesting. I was wondering about that.

IDK I guess it's purely an intuition read. Sorry. Do you have any experience with scum!kitty?

I have not played with him.

I just don't see anything that is all that AI in his posts. Only thing is a Fennec town read really

He seems to rely purely on intuition for sorting and doesn't always have a lot of reads. I guess I'd expect him to be more afraid to post in the thread if he were scum. What he posted so far looks like he is posting stream of conscious style almost and his thoughts check out with what I expect from Town!kitty. If he is scum attempting to impersonate his town meta then I can't see any difference yet.

Haven't really seen this second part at all so far.

I'd expect it sometime past the D1 halfway point.

[Frogsterking]

Press X to doubt

On my statement or on Greeting's alignment?

Kinda both, mostly the latter
I don’t sense a notable difference from the game I modded rn in Greeting’s play.

Three of town!Greeting's contributions by this point in time from the game you modded:

Catching up, I am happy to announce that both

intuile

and

Ausuka

are probably town.

Frogsterking

less likely town than the other two, but still I think more likely town than scum.

Consensus (or close to consensus) reads I have:

Frogsterking, Ausuka, Inutile,

Hoppip

Town

What's so towny about

hoppip

?

I'd also like Greeting to elaborate on their reads I guess

I have played with

Frogsterking

before. He likes to troll around, and, in my experience, tone-wise, he usually falls into the category "too scummy to be scum". It's a meta read from experience, because not knowing that, his ISO is very confusing.

Still, there is a more obvious sign pointing to him being town: I completely agree with his reads from 41, and he was the first one in the thread to make this observation actually. Some of his later reads are admittedly a bit hurried, and shaky (such as 137), but to be fair this overall sounds like town!

Frog

actively sorting rather than scum!

Frog

throwing random reads around. Maybe if he expands more on his reads, the townread will get more firm, but I'm happy to give him a townlean for now.

People don't tend to take him seriously because of the way he posts, but

Frogsterking

can be a pretty capable player if he wants to be.

@

Ausuka

The read on

intuile

/shiki is more of a tone/meta read too. I've played with

intuile

's other alts and she also played in a game I hosted. To be fair, if someone has so many alts, they could just play in a different way on each alt and no one would notice.

Intuile

tends to play the exact same way tone-wise when she's town, and this game is no different. Her interactions with you sounds like town!

intuile

sorting and your responses sound like a townie defending himself.

This is a pretty standard game opener for this site, I didn't really have anything to say to you because nothing you said was alignment indicative, sorry for ignoring you

yeah your opener pretty paint by numbers but you're aware so

like

vote someone
say something about someone else in same post
encourage engagement
make an early read!!

I don't think it would be typical of scum to try to make a read out of this, but in my mind it reads as typical of town!

intuile

to try to make a read out of you being friendly in your opening post (5).

She actually said herself what she does in mafia games, and I confirm that in my experience it's true:

but not alignment related, so! more a wondering aloud

Tl;dr: your interaction with

intuile

looks like town vs. town, and shiki is just being herself.

As for strictly you, I would say that your tone reads as towny in general, but I would say that my townread of

intuile

is stronger than my townread of you, as there is significantly less content and active scumhunting in your posts.

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: Nero

My 2nd FoS is Maria. Expect them to backtrack and unvote Nero soon.

Greeting might be Town playing a weird suboptimal strat. Vote Nero first.

Pooky isn't Townie at all. Scum lean. Vote Nero first.

Crescent is AWOL and it's probably NAI.

[Frogsterking]

Save the Dragons/Marci/Char
Fen/Cape
.
Pooky/Gamma
Nero/Frog

I go lay down now have fun

Bingo. This is what I was fishing for. It will come in handy tomorrow.

VOTE: Maria

We can hammer Maria now IMO.

[Frogsterking]

So... These are the things I need to know: Is Maria Mafia

Vote her to find out or get BoP voted (burden of proficiency)

[Frogsterking]

Save the Dragons/Marci/Char
Fen/Cape
.
Pooky/Gamma
Nero/Frog

I go lay down now have fun

Bingo. This is what I was fishing for. It will come in handy tomorrow.

VOTE: Maria

We can hammer Maria now IMO.

Can you elaborate on why Maria is scum? I don't super get Maria's take in 245 calling my posts

not

fuzzy so it's easy not to like it? I feel like the opposite applies more but alright. Then also kinda says the same thing about me in 285.

Would also like to point out that in Fennec's scum world, if I were to be mafia, the other suspicions that Fennec has had have been quite vocal about me

I think I probably hit wrong on Nero and she's been trying to feed the fire there. The rest of her reads she pulled out of thin air and I dislike seeing pooky as a scum lean (distancing) and dragon sliding all the way up into town reads for a single horrible post. Town!dragon can tell Cape is obvtown for example.

[Frogsterking]

I hardly see Save The Dragons making posts like 281 which made me inclined to throw a premature townread there

That's why he did it. I was excited too until I actually read 281. Are you still opposed to voting Maria or w.e?

[Frogsterking]

@Crescent voters

Let's get Maria D1.

Kitty - You have no Questions. Congrats. Maybe talk a little more too.

Will do.

Kitty's fine, you can help get Maria run up though.

[Frogsterking]

Are you still opposed to voting Maria or w.e?

for now, I feel like even with Maria's reads it doesn't give enough info

So I have to switch to Dragons in order to receive any help, fine w.e VOTE: Dragons

Let's start wrangling now

@Crescent voters

yall let's get one of Maria or Dragons first TBD still

[Frogsterking]

Frog, am I allowed to say you are making yourself seem very scummy

Why do you sound afraid to post in the thread Fennec

[Frogsterking]

Frog, am I allowed to say you are making yourself seem very scummy

Why do you sound afraid to post in the thread Fennec

We have to use those big ears of yours to detect the scum. Maybe if I point you in the right direction we will be able to hear something from the scum PT.

[Frogsterking]

Also, Can you answer my question post matey, you still haven't done that

I have ADHD can you bullet point the question you want me to read

[Frogsterking]

That looks like a post I might write as scum to troll people.

"Hey, you didn't answer my question!"

*posts word soup*

"Hey, where's my answer to that question?"

[Frogsterking]

Like, why would you immediately assume that 10 posts after you accused him? also, why did you out of the gate think Marcistas was a good person to trust, of all people, and why so early, either?

Like, what happened inside of your head at the moment you wrote this? These are completely different lines of thought. You really don't want me to start taking a closer look at your posts, Fennec.

[Frogsterking]

Plus, I was able to reread the posts, as I'm filling a log of posts in a document as well as relationships with players between players to see for contradictions and later reference, and

So basically you're open wolfing to try and put me on tilt so you can sort me. Groovy!

[Frogsterking]

There is literally no point to Openwolfing when all mafia can communicate A T D A Y

Well you ain't powerwolfin' cause ur posts ain't got power, and you ain't deepwolfin' cause ur posts ain't that deep, so ur openwolfin' by default. If u don't like bein' called an openwolf then don't choose a wolf as your avatar, it's just common sense child.

[Frogsterking]

I can understand kinda how you could mix that up, but at the same time can't.

As a player with the username frogsterking and an avatar featuring batman, I don't.

[Frogsterking]

still asking why the fuck you went to crescent.

It was a filler vote, I breadcrumbed my intent to switch to Maria later.

[Frogsterking]

UNVOTE: cape VOTE: crescent

For something something. Also, based on 75.

114 had an intent behind it which may have chang

PEdit

Thank you for volunteering Maria. Can you talk more about which posts you consider AI vs NAI?

I breadcrumb my intent to swap my Crescent vote onto Maria after questioning them.

[Frogsterking]

But who really gives a shit. and also, Crumbing your voting the guy who hadn't posted a single time, then following their vote and accusing that voted player?

I also anticipated this line of questioning, Fennec, and breadcrumbed my response just in case:

I'm a deep thinker.

[Frogsterking]

also, by my idea of openwolfing, You are openly, Signalling to your scumteam. If it means to you something different, tell me

Prioritizing thread disruption over being at all believable as a Townie. Like you don't care if you get voted out early as long as you are so annoying you prevent a proper Town Core from finding each other.

[Frogsterking]

I'd expect you to have a little more questions for them, not go along with their vote.

The entire point of my play was to lull them into a false sense of security so they let their guard down while I asked my questions. Also, I became distracted for a little while and forgot what I was doing.

These responses were the fruits of my labor:

Thank you for volunteering Maria.

Oh no.

Can you talk more about which posts you consider AI vs NAI?

Sigh

that's effort? Don't you know how lazy I am? Besides the obvious RVS votes that are just >rand on if you want to call them AI or not, I think most of the stuff said so far has a level of effort put in that on a baseline looks towny (because people TR effort a lot) but on the stuff that is AI in and of itself? Not much, I suppose the conversation about Nero was the most interesting thing said in the thread so far besides the busywork questions.

Not much, I suppose the conversation about Nero was the most interesting thing said in the thread so far besides the busywork questions.

Why, who and where?

Why: Because it was the closest thing to anything revealing said in my eyes but I understand people TR things easier than I do.
Who: Between Nero and Cape
Where: 49-54

Not much, I suppose the conversation about Nero was the most interesting thing said in the thread so far besides the busywork questions.

Why, who and where?

Fourth question: what do you predict marci's rationale will be for their suspicion on MalcolmTucker?

I didn't read on so I still don't know but I also don't really care or see the point on such speculation unless this was a trap question

Save the Dragons/Marci/Char
Fen/Cape
.
Pooky/Gamma
Nero/Frog

I go lay down now have fun

If I failed, then so be it.

[Frogsterking]

For example, my fine feathered friend, you may have noticed exhibit A:

but I understand people TR things easier than I do.

Save the Dragons/Marci/Char
Fen/Cape
.
Pooky/Gamma
Nero/Frog

I go lay down now have fun

A contradiction in the number of Townreads they listed vs the number they should have were they sorting the thread organically.

[Frogsterking]

And how was I disrupting the thread, exactly?

I'd have to meditate on that.

[Frogsterking]

you're breaking up frogster's posts so he can't just monologue endlessly about what kind of cereal he had in the morning

Of course! Pooky might just be Town after all.

PEdit

I am quite the dodgy fellow eh, do not cry and do not fear, it's NAI.

[Frogsterking]

I'm assuming those questions are rhetorical by the way.

[Frogsterking]

Yeah you assume right. they are rhetorical.

Very interesting. I wonder why you and Greeting are clashing?

[Frogsterking]

So, I have double checked and by post 55, Frogsterking actually didn't ask a single question. Which is why I was really surprised when Frogsterking posted 62. Like?!?!

Can be a sign of emotional manipulation. I can see Fennec taking a similar arc DeltaWave did from the mini normal I quoted earlier where they sound like scum from the start but accrue Townreads over time based off who they interact (aka target) until eventually Town is just unwilling to vote them out.

Of course, two alternative explanations are that Greeting is scum trying to discredit Fennec who they view as obv Town or Greeting and Fennec are both Town and Greeting is tunneling Fennec due to their disorganized manner of speaking.

@Fennec

you are allowed to PM the mod and ask for a notes PT (though you aren't allowed to reference using it specifically or link to it directly, so don't mention it if you get one) and I can already tell you that if this is your Town game you will improve a lot as a player by writing your posts into the Notes PT and then deciding whether or not and how you would like to share your ideas with the main thread.

I'm going to have to fact check Greeting and review Fennec later. I'm open to voting out Fennec today if I decide Greeting is telling the truth.

[Frogsterking]

So, I have double checked and by post 55, Frogsterking actually didn't ask a single question. Which is why I was really surprised when Frogsterking posted 62. Like?!?!

It's not a slam dunk, you missed one:

Frogsterking - "I may or may not post my survey start"

Gamma Emerald - Comment on elaborating something later.

Speaking of moving the game forward, cape can you justify townleaning these two above in some way that makes it seem like you

didn't

just throw a bunch of names together?

I think Greeting might have a valid point still because it's a bit dodgy of Fennec to describe me as "actually asking some important questions" in 55 based off #47 alone. Even though Greeting missed #47 I'd argue it's Fennec who is missing details rather than Greeting as Fennec described me as "...actually asking some..." implying I'm asking multiple important questions and that this is some novel idea which sets me apart as special compared to what others are putting out. I believe these details escaped my notice and it's due to puffing up my ego that I reciprocated Fennec's favorable evaluation in 62.

After reassessing my TR on Fennec I would place Fennec at null in my reads list, which actually makes me more inclined to vote Fennec as I think they are ideally positioned for a scum who is active in the thread, and will be a problem if not taken seriously as I learned by waiting too long to push DeltaWave. I encourage everyone else to also reassess their Townread on Fennec and why/what is causing them to TR Fennec, as a closer look at the slot may reveal Fennec to be quite a bit dodgy themselves.

My current plan is to take a break from the thread and ponder the pros and cons of pushing Fennec now instead of my other leads.

[Frogsterking]

After reviewing the thread (which is very easy to do due to the lack of bloat) I've decided I don't feel comfortable tunneling on Fennec and Fennec should probably be a Town lean despite Greeting's point. I also want to point out that Greeting's play is closely aligned with their scum meta rather than their Town meta. I mentioned earlier that scum!Greeting was capable of forging Town tells for the latter half of D1 and overall I suspect that's what they're up to with this Fennec push.

I think MariaR is the best place to go and I'm fine with someone hammering there if a flash wagon occurs.

[Frogsterking]

i had felt like

My 2nd FoS is Maria.

(I think there was another quote that better outlines his belief that one of me/maria are scum but this'll do.)

this was your classic push town bus buddy and Maria also pushed the idea that one of me/frog is scum and that their plan was to tag team me today and then possibly cross distance tomorrow so I wasn't really expecting Frog to vote Maria.

ofc they've now both gotten off me and went elsewhere besides each other.

I'm voting Maria. You haven't been scum hunting you've been defending yourself and I can't really Townread you until you start scum hunting.

[Frogsterking]

you are also voting dragon, not maria

Oh VOTE: MariaR

[Frogsterking]

That looks like a post I might write as scum to troll people.

"Hey, you didn't answer my question!"

*posts word soup*

"Hey, where's my answer to that question?"

how come you didn't call him out when he was doing this to me?

Lack of social awareness. Sorry. I'm watching him a lot more closely now.

[Frogsterking]

I've been trying to think of if there's a worldview where Frog is just a villa who is wrong but I can't get over the fact they just made up a worldview that never existed to begin with, and acted like they had this grand bait scheme. (didn't happen)

MT needs to have more votes on them, just look at that iso and tell me that's a villager mindset and not someone just watching from the sides taking shots posting busywork. It's such an obvious wolf iso

This is refuted since I breadcrumbed the entire thing. Fennec interrogated me about this last night.

[Frogsterking]

preliminary Thoughts: at least one of maria/frog are mafia. Neri feels subdued but i wont push it just based on that bc i like them like this and prefer it that way

VOTE: frog

fireisred alt

[Frogsterking]

what day is this

Haha busted

[Frogsterking]

I mean this might have been a scum slot after all

[Frogsterking]

Whether for the reasons presented or not so far I think Maria looks quite scummy here. There's a cagey defensiveness to some of their posts after being accused which vibes with me as scum trying to clear their name but not wanting to look overly desperate but panicky while doing so.

I think Fennec vs Frog is TvT. Fennec very much feels like they're thinking out loud in the thread in a townie way, while I find Frog's play can be quite erratic but engaged when they are town. I'm not particularly seeing strong scum motivation from either of them at the moment.

on a frogs wolf flip, this is almost certainly a partner

You're wasting your time and ours building all your reads around a scum!Frog flip which isn't going to happen. You can see I'm unlikely to be scum from activity alone. I don't consider these bad preflip associative takes to be game advancing content.

[Frogsterking]

Whether for the reasons presented or not so far I think Maria looks quite scummy here. There's a cagey defensiveness to some of their posts after being accused which vibes with me as scum trying to clear their name but not wanting to look overly desperate but panicky while doing so.

I think Fennec vs Frog is TvT. Fennec very much feels like they're thinking out loud in the thread in a townie way, while I find Frog's play can be quite erratic but engaged when they are town. I'm not particularly seeing strong scum motivation from either of them at the moment.

on a frogs wolf flip, this is almost certainly a partner

You're wasting your time and ours building all your reads around a scum!Frog flip which isn't going to happen. You can see I'm unlikely to be scum from activity alone. I don't consider these bad preflip associative takes to be game advancing content.

The first problem being that I'm not scum, the second being that it isn't really likely that I would be scum FYPOV, the third being that I'm probably not going to get flipped this game, and the fourth and final problem is that there's not a lot of reason to believe there is any meaningful connection between malcolm and I based on what you quoted.

[Frogsterking]

Whether for the reasons presented or not so far I think Maria looks quite scummy here. There's a cagey defensiveness to some of their posts after being accused which vibes with me as scum trying to clear their name but not wanting to look overly desperate but panicky while doing so.

I think Fennec vs Frog is TvT. Fennec very much feels like they're thinking out loud in the thread in a townie way, while I find Frog's play can be quite erratic but engaged when they are town. I'm not particularly seeing strong scum motivation from either of them at the moment.

on a frogs wolf flip, this is almost certainly a partner

You're wasting your time and ours building all your reads around a scum!Frog flip which isn't going to happen. You can see I'm unlikely to be scum from activity alone. I don't consider these bad preflip associative takes to be game advancing content.

The first problem being that I'm not scum, the second being that it isn't really likely that I would be scum FYPOV, the third being that I'm probably not going to get flipped this game, and the fourth and final problem is that there's not a lot of reason to believe there is any meaningful connection between malcolm and I based on what you quoted.

ok we can test that by putting majority votes on you and see how hard it is to kill your slot then
who is mafia in your view?

Does it matter or are you just a troll alt?

[Frogsterking]

Does it matter or are you just a troll alt?

I'm not really inclined to help you based on your awful takes so far. This isn't the newbie queue and you're a troll alt so I'm not Townreading you for dumb telling. I can see Crescent quitting after a scum roll, they don't have any courage.

[Frogsterking]

I'm down to policy Big Chungus after a couple maf flips.

[Frogsterking]

Why not now?

I feel optimistic about MariaR and Greeting flipping scum.

[Frogsterking]

Town:

Gamma
Kitty
Marci
Cape
Sirrhet
Charloux
Fennec

Null:
Nero


Scum:

MariaR

Updated 4 Big Chungus

Greeting, Pooky, Dragons and Big Chungus are a bit dodgy but I'll need to think about where they go. I think I scraped one more Townread together but I can't remember where it came from.

[Frogsterking]

Town:

Gamma
Kitty
Marci
Cape
Sirrhet
Charloux
Fennec

Null:
Nero

Scum:

MariaR
Greeting,
Pooky,
Dragons and
Big Chungus

???:
Toogle
Malcolm

Updated 4 Big Chungus

Greeting, Pooky, Dragons and Big Chungus are a bit dodgy but I'll need to think about where they go. I think I scraped one more Townread together but I can't remember where it came from.

4 cross reference where I probably need help the most:

VOTE: pooky RVS it's a stuffed bear how can it talk

I may or may not post my survey start

__

Players I can read well:

Gamma Emerald
Nero Cain
Greeting
KittyTacky
Crescent
PookyTheMagicalBear

Players I can't read well:

Toogeloo
MalcolmTucker

Players I don't know or it remains to be determined how well I can read:

Fennec
Charloux
MariaR
Cape90
SirRhett
Save The Dragons
marcistar

[Frogsterking]

I think Greeting (and maybe Dragons?) is just a scum slot who doesn't have a lot of options. I was Town against Greeting's scum slot in Elected Decisions and tunneled them hard D2 in that game until they died. I think Greeting knows what's coming so they may as well try to 1v1 me. I'm assuming that we're good enough players to not just grossly misread each other's Town game.

With Gamma I think they're Town genuinely interacting with scum Greeting who they aren't sure how to sort. I think Gamma is recognizing elements of my Townplay and isn't 100% sure how to sort me because Gamma has almost always rolled scum against me, so they don't have a lot of experience making an assessment on my alignment.

[Frogsterking]

I did. You were extremely active in TFT so we interacted a lot early in.

[Frogsterking]

I'm having a hard time imagining your interaction with Greeting just now be scum theater.

[Frogsterking]

I was worried at first that Big Chungus was a game thrower but I'm pretty sure it's just a scum slot. I'm getting a strong troll vibe from them which reminds me of when NK15 replaced into Gamma's mini Normal. I ignored it in that game but now I think that tone is AI.

Gamma, how sure are you on Maria? I have three solid SRs right now including her. I'd say I'm

moderate

certainty on all three of Maria, Chung, and Greeting being scum, and my Maria read is pretty dependent on the feedback you've provided about her meta.

[Frogsterking]

i'm a little confused. not to take away from people tring me, but i feel like it's a pretty standard catchup post. i'm probably going to be behind all game due to my job i don't really get internet at work on my phone and don't want to use my office computer to play mafia

Fennec is so town it's adorable, really confused about suspicion there. i'm liking frogsterking less and less from his weird attack of me that lacks substance to his conversation with fennec that seems like posting just to post garbage

I'm pretty open to re-evaluating your slot. The main reason I think you might be Town is that you listed me as a scum lean rather than a scum read. If you're scum deciding to push me it takes some effort to go about faking a whole read progression.

[Frogsterking]

Intent. Claim maria

What do you think about the rest of my scum reads?

[Frogsterking]

i'm a little confused. not to take away from people tring me, but i feel like it's a pretty standard catchup post. i'm probably going to be behind all game due to my job i don't really get internet at work on my phone and don't want to use my office computer to play mafia

Fennec is so town it's adorable, really confused about suspicion there. i'm liking frogsterking less and less from his weird attack of me that lacks substance to his conversation with fennec that seems like posting just to post garbage

I'm pretty open to re-evaluating your slot. The main reason I think you might be Town is that you listed me as a scum lean rather than a scum read. If you're scum deciding to push me it takes some effort to go about faking a whole read progression.

And I know I have at least one if not more Town who I scum binned by mistake. I think your play toward my slot so far is more reminiscent of a Town who I scum binned and is returning the favor. I'm not sure I've ever played in a regular game where we were both Town so I have no reason to believe I can read you by tone. What I can do is take back my dodgy assessment on your slot and just treat you like a null slot I know I need longer to understand.

[Frogsterking]

I'm confident that 2/3 at least of Greeting/Chungus/Maria are maf. I recommend eliminating everyone in that list if I flip tonight.

After that I'm not sure where to go. FoS Pooky if Maria flips Town, null read him if Maria flips scum. There's decent chances I town binned a scum player.

[Frogsterking]

I ignored it in that game but now I think that tone is AI.

In case I didn't make this clear, I'm saying the last time I read a player's tone the way I'm reading Chungus, they proceeded to flip scum. That's why I believe it's AI. In fact, my guess is that Chungus is an NK15 alt.

[Frogsterking]

433 looks kind of bad though. Maybe I'm being too nice to Dragons.

[Frogsterking]

Cape are you ready to push Greeting or Chungus tomorrow?

[Frogsterking]

It would be cool if Dragons/Greeting/Maria/Chungus are the whole scum team and I called them D1.

[Frogsterking]

i'm a little confused. not to take away from people tring me, but i feel like it's a pretty standard catchup post. i'm probably going to be behind all game due to my job i don't really get internet at work on my phone and don't want to use my office computer to play mafia

Fennec is so town it's adorable, really confused about suspicion there. i'm liking frogsterking less and less fro
m his weird attack of me that lacks substance to his conversation with fennec that seems like posting just to post garbage

I'm pretty open to re-evaluating your slot. The main reason I think you might be Town is that you listed me as a scum lean rather than a scum read. If you're scum deciding to push me it takes some effort to go about faking a whole read progression.

Gamma Emerald - not sure yet
Nero Cain - seems town
Frogsterking - leaning scum
alcolmTucker - slight scumread but i think i always scumread him so i'm trying to be a little more wary
Greeting - something about their tone felt off but i'm mostly okay with them
KittyTacky - need more but seems okay for now
Big Chungus Gaming/Crescent - need more
Save The Dragons - that's me!
Fennec - town town town
PookyTheMagicalBear - i feel like if pooky were scum i would have noticed by now
Cape90 - scum
SirRhett - who
Toogeloo - i'm not sure what to make of them just sheeping pooky but it's probably not outside their town range
Charloux - little wary
marcistar - town
MariaR - i guess i'm leaning scum here too

The problem is the absence of legitimate scum reads. Cape is obv Town and seems to be their strongest scum read. Then I appear to be their second strongest scum read, since the read on everyone else is really hedgey and fence sitty. It looked at first like Dragons was choosing to fake a read progression on me, but looking at his read on me "scum lean" in context with the rest of his reads it looks more like what I expect from scum where he just decided to go on the offensive.

[Frogsterking]

Cape are you ready to push Greeting or Chungus tomorrow?

Probably, I would need to look at it more on NOT EXAM DAY like it be for me right now

Chungus has been NAI which at this stage worries me.

Greeting is finally enacting town meta but I don't like their take on you

I think this what I warned you about earlier where they stop lurking and fake Townie looking posts for a while. In my game, they fell off hard with these kinds of posts on D2 and their ISO looked really bad on review.

[Frogsterking]

I think I have been less towny recently so idk why Frogsterking is all of the sudden trusting of me. I could be a dingus and he is tryna pocket me

If you think about from my point of view you're obvious town since you're reads aren't like "omg frog obv scum" and you're actually interacting with me and explaining what you're doing.

[Frogsterking]

One thing I never mentioned. I think Pooky's silent vote on me made sense. Like I swapped off Greeting who I assume they were scum reading (since they were voting) when I swapped off them, from their POV, it probably looked w/w so they voted me after I got off Greeting

Thank you, I wasn't sure what Pooky was up to with the naked votes.

[Frogsterking]

I'm down to kill. Looks like a potential scum claim. No conviction and too clean.

[Frogsterking]

Dragons/Greeting/Chungus/Maria is my solve and my suggested kill list. Follow Cape and Nero probably. If Nero is deep scum expect him to lurk out a lot.

[Frogsterking]

You wish wolf me could be caught this easily B)

Anyway, Toogeloo/Pooky votes on me are the ones I would raise the most eyebrows at. Still feel good about my towncore.

Where is your solve?

[Frogsterking]

I will be quite sad if you're a villager because seeing you try to backtrack out of my flip will be 100% worth the wait.
pedit: I'm not posting a five person solve on D1 that's stupid and it will probably be incorrect I'm not letting scum cling to my list and pushing the incorrect people in my solve. I'm more confident in my villa reads.

What would I try to backtrack out of? I'm claiming 66% in Maria/Greeting/Chungus. It's sad and all if you're VT but you were a worthy sacrifice.

[Frogsterking]

if this town really just let's you go "welp oh well" after I flip then I will be rolling in my grave with laughter tbh.

I'm not really buying the AtE sorry.

Cape/Nero hammer?

[Frogsterking]

if this town really just let's you go "welp oh well" after I flip then I will be rolling in my grave with laughter tbh.

Also, how do you know that your wagon is Town-lead?

[Frogsterking]

Pooky/Too/MT

That's a terrible solve.

Hammer please.

[Frogsterking]

yeah what even is the dirt on maria i think i missed it

She's getting BoPed

[Frogsterking]

yeah what even is the dirt on maria i think i missed it

She's getting BoPed

She's playing dumb by pretending to be a terrible Town player

[Frogsterking]

Glad to see out of the 100 posts almost none of them were that helpful given how objectively nai they were

but hey VOTE: Nero it wasn't all that bad

Thank you for volunteering Maria.

Oh no.

Can you talk more about which posts you consider AI vs NAI?

Sigh

that's effort? Don't you know how lazy I am? Besides the obvious RVS votes that are just >rand on if you want to call them AI or not, I think most of the stuff said so far has a level of effort put in that on a baseline looks towny (because people TR effort a lot) but on the stuff that is AI in and of itself? Not much, I suppose the conversation about Nero was the most interesting thing said in the thread so far besides the busywork questions.

Gamma/Nero can get votes no opinion on other people

Cape had a lot of content that isn't just fuzzy nothing so it's easy to read that content and not like it, but I think in and of itself? Pretty good. I think this game really has nothing solid, still feels like RVS but I think Nero is the best place to press right now.

Is Greeting always this snappy?

Save the Dragons/Marci/Char
Fen/Cape
.
Pooky/Gamma
Nero/Frog

I go lay down now have fun

I've talked too much on why I think Frogs post suck so I'm gonna move here for the time being.

For example, my fine feathered friend, you may have noticed exhibit A:

but I understand people TR things easier than I do.

Save the Dragons/Marci/Char
Fen/Cape
.
Pooky/Gamma
Nero/Frog

I go lay down now have fun

A contradiction in the number of Townreads they listed vs the number they should have were they sorting the thread organically.

There is no way, you are going to come into the thread and say "I made this one post to try and make Maria scumread me therefore showing that she is a wolf" because you weren't trying to do that and the fact you're trying to claim that is beyond silly, I don't think it'd take anyone more than two seconds to see how that's doesn't happen.

Now the post above me? Just because I made the statement: "people tr things easier than I do" does not mean I cannot have townreads made in the thread overtime. What you're pointing out isn't even a contradiction you're trying to paint it as this blanket statement that if Maria doesn't have more wolfreads than scumreads that statement is false.

Either you're reaching so hard that you've convinced yourself that I am a wolf with such wacky reasoning without even considering why this stuff can come from a villager or you're just a wolf trying to paint anything possible into a wolfread.

I'll let the thread figure out what.

[Frogsterking]

Hammer please. She's trying to talk her way back in.

[Frogsterking]

wheres she pretending to be terrible?

Hammer please. She's trying to talk her way back in.

Trust

[Frogsterking]

Gamma is Town I'm pretty sure and he said she's not in her Town range, and I'm seeing a lot of typical D1 mistakes. I'm promising 66% in Greeting/Maria/Chungus. Trust pleeeeeease

[Frogsterking]

I’m open to voting Charloux or Claire rn

What?

If you’re referring to me saying Claire, that’s what I call MariaR since she has/had multiple public alts she would use in conjunction. I didn’t shift into calling her that exclusively until recently though.

I’m open to voting Charloux or Claire rn

What?

If you’re referring to me saying Claire, that’s what I call MariaR since she has/had multiple public alts she would use in conjunction. I didn’t shift into calling her that exclusively until recently though.

Okay. Thank you for explaining.

She just said she had no other reads, are you fr?

I didn't realize how recent that was. My question stands anyway I guess but I realize it's kind of stupid now. Do you have any thoughts on her play so far?

Very lackluster

Of course y’all are just going to assume that I was pocketing

Cape90

, I can’t just say I like his avi anymore.

Greeting is exiting their Town range.

Press X to doubt

VOTE: crescent
I still think Maria is scum, and don’t think Nero is, but Crescent’s lack of presence is concerning.

I don't think I've even been pushing you that hard, kinda just been stating I have a wolfread on you and keeping my vote on you, I don't think my contributions have done much in the way to get you voted, do you care about it that badly?

Switching my vote to Gamma is an option, but that isn't going to go anywhere and the other main option is cape who I don't agree with. Of course, I could start my own wagon but that's effort.
pedit: mmmm I don't have a problem with you being aggressive, we've played together enough that I know that's just your style of play I just don't think the way you've held conversations are coming from a villa mindset early in the game. Sure, you're overly defensive (and that's fine you're being pushed) but I'm not digging it.

Where should I be voting again?

I think it’s suspicious you opted to name me and Nero, two people you have experience with before, as your two suspects, and you’ve done jack shot to explain those reads. And you can’t claim you don’t know how to read me because you just did it in that micro before.

@Fennec


So basically you're saying you don't think Frogs thinking is real, right? I do think if Nero is a villager Frog is a wolf because of the way they handled that sideline middle ground here and it looked partly advantageous. Like, if both of them are a villager I would be quite surprised. Frog's trap posting of saying if I unvote Nero we're partners is really bad.

Anyway, Gamma's posting is pretty weak and as someone who can read Gamma pretty well, what are your thoughts on them? I feel like Gamma and MT need to have a bit more of a spotlight then they're given because the loud voices are drowning everything else out at the moment.

Yup, Claire’s flexing her BoP here
If Claire wants to seriously target me she’s gonna be blown up very quickly.

@Crescent voters

Let's get Maria D1.

Kitty - You have no Questions. Congrats. Maybe talk a little more too.

Will do.

Kitty's fine, you can help get Maria run up though.

VOTE: MariaR
Roger.

[Frogsterking]

Spoiler:

vote count 1.3 !

Crescent (2):

PookyTheMagicalBear, Toogeloo

Cape90 (2):

SirRhett, Save The Dragons

MariaR (2):

Gamma Emerald, Frogsterking

marcistar (1):

marcistar

Greeting (1):

Cape90

Toogeloo (1):

Charloux

KittyTacky (1):

Nero Cain

Fennec (1):

Greeting

MalcolmTucker (1):

MariaR

not voting (4):

MalcolmTucker, KittyTacky, Crescent, Fennec

with 16 alive, it takes 9 to blow someone up. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-10-08 15:00:00)

modorator notes

• replacing crescent.
  
• gamma emerald might end up with limited access during the hurricane

even if i did, im wary of how fast this wagon is building.
this says 7 days left? and the case isnt really speaking to me.

it looks like shes just getting picked on for a self righteous? attitude.

i want something better for a speed wagon honestly. but above that i just want to watch more shitfights happen before flips happen.

I think the self righteousness is fake.

The speed of the wagon isn't indicative of her flip.

You can watch even more entertaining shit fights tomorrow no matter what she flips.

[Frogsterking]

i. dont. want. to. end. day. right. now.

[Frogsterking]

lol, Idk how many votes are on Maria but I just said intent to make things happen b/c I am fucking sick of these snail paced day phases. Wouldn't surprise me if she wasn't even close to hammer, I'd hammer her though.

LOL

[Frogsterking]

what’s the case on MT here?

Nothing more than the usual Mislim Target reasoning unless I missed something.

VOTE: Dragons

This should be the D1 flip though IMO, Dragons ISO is hands down the worst in this game. I thought about this game during the shutdown and I think Dragons is likely to be a scum flip with Greeting chainsawing me over him. I'm even open to being wrong on every single one of my previous scum reads except my Dragon read really. Greeting I think is probably scum but maybe I'm wrong and they're having an off game or something, Chungus/Pooky being troll could be NAI and Maria falsely accused is a thing.

I'd rank these players in terms of dodginess, highest-to-lowest:

Dragons, Greeting, Chungus, Pooky, Maria,

For real though, Dragons needs to be one of the main wagons today, and if he flips scum then I'm probably pushing Greeting tomorrow.

__

Maybe a better visual way to organize what I'm saying:

Null: Maria + a handful of others I'll have to reread

Scum lean/mild suspicion: Chungus, Pooky

Low certainty scum read: Greeting

Moderate certainty scum read: Dragons

[Frogsterking]

Town:

Gamma
Kitty
Marci
Cape
Sirrhet
Charloux
Fennec

Null:
Nero

Scum:

MariaR
Greeting,
Pooky,
Dragons and
Big Chungus

???:
Toogle
Malcolm

Updated 4 Big Chungus

Greeting, Pooky, Dragons and Big Chungus are a bit dodgy but I'll need to think about where they go. I think I scraped one more Townread together but I can't remember where it came from.

4 cross reference where I probably need help the most:

VOTE: pooky RVS it's a stuffed bear how can it talk

I may or may not post my survey start

__

Players I can read well:

Gamma Emerald
Nero Cain
Greeting
KittyTacky
Crescent
PookyTheMagicalBear

Players I can't read well:

Toogeloo
MalcolmTucker

Players I don't know or it remains to be determined how well I can read:

Fennec
Charloux
MariaR
Cape90
SirRhett
Save The Dragons
marcistar

Greeting's alleged tilt at me for not engaging with Chungus in good faith seems even more theatrical considering I bothered to update and compile this when Chungus asked.

Gamma do you see anyone I townbinned you think should be moved down to null? Or vice versa? As of 619 I've got Maria, MT, Toogle and Enchant (Nero) in null. I think everyone else is still in their bins as quoted above.

@Enchant @Malcolm

Same question

[Frogsterking]

yeah but what abt it is bad?

Are you talking about Dragon's ISO?

[Frogsterking]

yeah but what abt it is bad?

Are you talking about Dragon's ISO?

yes

also side note can we PLEASE do something about rhett idk if they forgot abt the game but their iso is so annoying i kinda wanna vote it

What's bothering you about rhett?

[Frogsterking]

yeah but what abt it is bad?

Are you talking about Dragon's ISO?

yes

also side note can we PLEASE do something about rhett idk if they forgot abt the game but their iso is so annoying i kinda wanna vote it

What's bothering you about rhett?

Dragons is a good example of the kind of low effort scum slot trying to coast by which can get picked off D1.

Dragons ISO is a low activity slot with a couple biggish "catchup" posts that are super hedgey and refuse to state any clear stances or analysis on most players. These posts which are supposed to appear Townie are easy to write as scum, and his top 2 scum reads are obv town slots (cape and I.) I'm reading a purely survivalistic motivation from Dragon which I'm not reading from any other slot, however annoying some of them may be.

[Frogsterking]

Kill it with fire!

VOTE: Nero Cain

No one threatens a kitty on my watch and lived to see the night!

im alrdy bored can we kill someone now

It talks! Kill it!

Jokes aside, lot to catch up on. Fennec has some good reads that I’m tracking as well. I can’t discuss the ongoing game for obvious reasons, but there is definitely some misinformation being presented by your assessment of that unfortunately.

I started with a joke here because there’s not much else to do in the RVS. Feel like there is a lot of players that we haven’t heard from yet. Looking forward to hearing more.

I do agree that Cape looks a little suspect at this juncture. At least more than most. Let’s get this train on the tracks.

UNVOTE

VOTE: Cape

Hey guys, I'm catching up now. Sorry about the lack of posts. I was busy playing Terraforming Mars last night. It kinda sapped my mind. haha

Man, this is tough. Despite there being ten pages of stuff, I feel as if there's almost nothing to go off of other than people's past experience with players. If that's all the info I have to go off of, then it sounds like Meeting or Nero might be the best leads thus far? It's hard to say. Nothing in particular is ringing as truly scummy thus far.

What about his ISO is scum AI to you other than the abysmal activity level and the bad excuses for not making up reads?

[Frogsterking]

What's up sirrhett? Watcha thinkin?

[Frogsterking]

Also your point about Greeting going after your reads does kinda resonate w me

Did anything Nero said about KittyTacky resonate with you, Gamma?

[Frogsterking]

So, who we killing and why

Dragons please, scum slot IMO

[Frogsterking]

643 is a flail defense if I've ever seen a flail defense before.

[Frogsterking]

So, who we killing and why

Dragons please, scum slot IMO

643 is a flail defense if I've ever seen a flail defense before.

moderate

certainty scum flip

[Frogsterking]

why would you attribute that motivation to me being scum?

It's monologuing and parallel communication. Gives you time to double check everything you say and doesn't force you to interact with other players. It makes your slot appear more Townie on a reread than it should and is a very common scum tactic.

Basically this:

Imagine catching up only to discover there's 3+ pages which you also need to catch up.

Therefore catching up is pointless exertise.

Enchant may have been joking but that's the vibe I'm getting from your slot. Game isn't moving fast either, so I think all the drama over catching up is just theater.

[Frogsterking]

especially if it's not the player's meta to do nothing every game (which, in my personal experience, is true for marcistar and Toogeloo).

rude

Shaded

I feel like you're so dodgy you should be scumreading yourself frogsterking

How about actually responding to me instead of saying bullshit

I thought I did that (652)

[Frogsterking]

Not really I made like 10 arguments and you barely barely articulated one

Were any of them good though?

[Frogsterking]

I'd like to hear MariaR thoughts on Dragons.

[Frogsterking]

Not really I made like 10 arguments and you barely barely articulated one

Were any of them good though?

Yes

Try harder

I think you just randomly drew my name out of a hat and decided to double down on it and anyone who thinks you have a case is an idiot no offense

I reread and they weren't good. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man straw man fallacy, you're straw manning my case against you.

Also you claimed low activity != scum but there is evidence that there's a correlation. https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... _Detection MathBlade made a similar objection (and later flipped scum) when I accused him D1 in the large theme you just modded.

[Frogsterking]

I don't believe that I'm seriously being scumread for making catchup posts. This isn't even amatuer hour, it's bizarro world.

Stop confirm biasing yourself and actually listen to what I'm saying. Thank you

VOTE: frogsterking

This is just unreal there's no way this is legit

I'm close to believing this flail because of the word choice but somehow it seems less genuine than MariaR.

[Frogsterking]

I'd like to hear MariaR thoughts on Dragons.

[Frogsterking]

Can you take a beat and reevaluate your position or are you seriously dead set on crucifying me for not posting as much as other people while blatantly ignoring other offenders

I can yes, I'm choosing not to because I believe in my heart you are lying.

[Frogsterking]

I swear, if I tried to run up ANOTHER mason

[Frogsterking]

I'm liking the catch up posts from MT but I will let others evaluate as I have wrongly sorted MT before.

[Frogsterking]

MT I'd like to hear your thoughts on Dragons now that you're almost caught up.

[Frogsterking]

MT I'd like to hear your thoughts on Dragons now that you're almost caught up.

I mean, when you're caught up I guess.

[Frogsterking]

UNVOTE: Dragons

I guess I'll think about it.

[Frogsterking]

643 is a flail defense if I've ever seen a flail defense before.

I’m inclined to agree
It’s also incredibly try-hard which just feels off in general for Fenrir

Okay good I thought I was crazy tunneling there for a second and imagined all that into Dragons play. I'm more inclined to believe MariaR than I am Dragons.

VOTE: Dragons

PEdit

Hell yeah

[Frogsterking]

I have a couple weird misgivings about my Mariah wagon:

Thank you for volunteering Maria.

Oh no.

Can you talk more about which posts you consider AI vs NAI?

Sigh

that's effort? Don't you know how lazy I am? Besides the obvious RVS votes that are just >rand on if you want to call them AI or not, I think most of the stuff said so far has a level of effort put in that on a baseline looks towny (because people TR effort a lot) but on the stuff that is AI in and of itself? Not much, I suppose the conversation about Nero was the most interesting thing said in the thread so far besides the busywork questions.

I'm not sure scum include the strip quote or the
"Oh no" at the top here.

You wish wolf me could be caught this easily B)

I associate boasting about scum play as coming from Town.
__

I think Maria is comfortable in the null bin. I think it's possible I reacted too strong against their apathy defense in 119. I don't think it's a good defense on principle and I've tunneled Town for responding that way before.

[Frogsterking]

Marci do you still scum read Malcolm?

[Frogsterking]

I get why SBPC is a thing but
I usually post a good amount as scum.

What does this stand for?

__

I think Dragons is doing a good job with the AtE trying to talk their way out of this. Unfortunately, that is how I'm interpreting their recent posts.

I think BGC is a good alternative vote, I've seen plenty of scum play this way before, and if they're Town then it will be easier to win the game without them based on their play so far.

Ideally IMO the wagons will consolidate into BGC and Dragons.

[Frogsterking]

Gamma apparently knows who you are and thinks you are scum, or just Gamma wants to push you for personal reasons, I can't tell. Actually I am seeing the ladder.

I think pushing BGC is practical, there's a clear scum incentive to play the way they are because scumhunting is a bitch when someone is putting you on tilt. I'd argue it's BGC who seems to be pushing for personal reasons (if they're even Town.)

Pedit

Getting TvT vibes from Charloux and Cape.

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: BGC

I've learned it's best to get slots like this out of the way BEFORE they do their damage rather than after. I intend to push Dragons and/or Greeting tomorrow and suggest you do it for me if I die. If the Dragons wagon builds (which it should) I'll hammer it or put it at e-1 or whatever.

[Frogsterking]

Yeah, I'm sold that BCG is a good flip for Town.

[Frogsterking]

Yeah, I'm sold that BCG is a good flip for Town.

No ur not lmao
Ur only reason for pushing me is bc im pushing you and gamma ROFL

Partly yes, you're also incendiary and pushing Cape who I townread and you're townsending Dragons who I don't.

[Frogsterking]

i join games on alts so i can act more chill

You're also clearly a liar, so I think you will enjoy playing scum the exact way you're playing this game right now.

[Frogsterking]

Yeah, I'm sold that BCG is a good flip for Town.

No ur not lmao
Ur only reason for pushing me is bc im pushing you and gamma ROFL

Partly yes, you're also incendiary and pushing Cape who I townread and you're townsending Dragons who I don't.

LMFAOOO THIS IS SO RICH COMING FROM YOU
absolutely fake

I doubt you've played with me before.

am i misreading ur partner std who ur bussing? Is that why ur trying to tie me to them?
@std how do u read frogs push on you, please ellaborate on this dynamic

This shitty distancing won't dissuade me.

[Frogsterking]

FYI Chungus, trolls are often more effective when it isn't obvious what they're doing, you remind me of grade school too much to get a rise out of me. Have a good night and good luck pooping up the thread.

[Frogsterking]

I also thought frog was off early but after he started pushing Claire it felt like that wasn’t the case anymore

who's claire?

who came from planet claire?

MariaR

[Frogsterking]

I feel like you're probably not going to get any more certain on my alignment and I don't think I can say anything other than I apparently weight things like 75 higher than you do.

Also, a big reason I slipped through the cracks in that game is because there were people like Chungus (fua for example, and that guy who got removed for being racist or something) picking fights with Town after Town and making it REALLY easy to hide.

Chungus has had time to demonstrate any redeeming qualities in their "townplay" and they have uh...demonstrated a desire to pick fights with people who are probably Town.

[Frogsterking]

i dont think chungus is trolling frog,

also i remember thinking u were weird feeling earlier.

I also thought frog was off early but after he started pushing Claire it felt like that wasn’t the case anymore

Idk what it was that you noticed but you should probably remember it because I don't know how to replicate it and it might be AI that I'm Town.

[Frogsterking]

The thing about frog is... That the whole of today's discussion centers around him. Without him constantly posting the page count would effectively be halved and good luck with your reads then. If he is scum then the jokes on him *insert shooting yourself in the leg*

[Frogsterking]

1. So you are comparing Chungus too... other town that game??

2. The other person you are referring to was naughty in another game, and not the game u were maf in

Yeah I'm drawing an analogy, if chungus is town then scum probably breathe a sigh of relief when they see his play.

[Frogsterking]

I think this defense is towny but I am very easily pocketed by this style of posting

That explains a lot. I am not easily pocketed by that style of posting. I don't think it's a good idea to Townread Dragons for posting that.

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: Enchant

BGC and Dragons might be a scum v scum cross so I'd prefer if you read their isos and see if you dislike either enough to vote.

PEdit

Same

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: Enchant

BGC and Dragons might be a scum v scum cross so I'd prefer if you read their isos and see if you dislike either enough to vote.

PEdit

Same

I haven't really read anything yet. but Enchant sus!

LOL

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: Enchant

BGC and Dragons might be a scum v scum cross so I'd prefer if you read their isos and see if you dislike either enough to vote.

PEdit

Same

I see you declined to mention that you also have 3 votes. Haha

I believe you replaced into a Town slot and I was being polite but I can be bossy too. I read what Bell said about your play lmao. I think what he said is right and I also think there are probably some redeeming qualities in your play.

[Frogsterking]

Kinda feeling Frogster StD based on preliminary VCs. Weak because both counterwagons are voting Frogster.

VOTE: StD

This seems like a really wild take and it is also something I might expect from town Titus maybe. I was wondering if it was a bad look for Chungus and Dragons to be refusing to vote each other in the way that they are.

what

It would be easier to understand if you didn't mess up the quotes.

Did you ever follow up on my question about Dragons? I know you've played with scum!Dragons before.

Pooky and I setting up the tactical nuke. Hold on to your butts.

Lmao

[Frogsterking]

That's hilarious this site bans good players when they get put on tilt by trolls or players who are aggressively anti town for *whatever reason* they play that way. Why not ban the trolls/aggressively anti town players instead? Or at least delegate them to certain games only. I don't think NM counts as a troll or aggressively anti town because he doesn't intentionally disrupt the people who are actively solving in the thread, like Chungus has been doing since he replaced in.

With my approach you cultivate a community more people in general want to play in over time? Instead of less people?

L-O-L

[Frogsterking]

furtive really went to prove he is "townie", even wasted time to color this shit out, but not to explain these.

die

VOTE: furtive

you seemed more productive in the Micro game I played with you and this and

maybe

StD are literally your only voiced reads this game

The fact that you're trying to meta read Enchant in this large game based off their play in a micro game shows that you're in hubris by assuming you can apply meta to read them. I've played with Enchant in like every kind of setup (and Gamma has too) multiple times and the only debate is whether Enchant can be Town leaned for their play so far or Town locked.

I think we can only meta read certain players effectively and I can tell you as a likely team mate that you don't know how to meta read Enchant and you need to re-evaluate your PoE because you probably sorted scum as Town by now if this is where your FoS is at.

[Frogsterking]

@frogster which posts of mine are trolling? I am trying to understand your thought process but you come off as a frustrated scum who doesnt know how to get me off their back

viewtopic.php?p=13516214&user_select%5B ... #p13516214

[Frogsterking]

@frogster which posts of mine are trolling? I am trying to understand your thought process but you come off as a frustrated scum who doesnt know how to get me off their back

viewtopic.php?p=13516214&user_select%5B ... #p13516214

no I want you to actually pin point specific posts so we can discuss your thought process.

you're being unhelpful and should be policied for this kind of behavior if you dont want to be cooperative and help people understand your thought process.

Okay:

viewtopic.php?p=13516214&user_select%5B ... #p13516214

[Frogsterking]

chungus town guys pls stop

Marci:

1) are you scum

2) do you have a scum pool

3) is greeting in it

[Frogsterking]

Fennec was town guys.

I'm pretty sure anyway

I mean, I would hope so lmao

I agree slightly with your takes, like I can see StD to like a slight degree but am I crazy about Maria/Charloux/self vote as a wagon on someone? No

Now that BCG is seemingly trying, I think the takes from them are okay looking, like at least they are there. I am gonna assume that if BCG is town, then StD is low-confidence town based on 908/909.
Also LOL on Frogsterking apparently blowing up IC in a game?? Reminds me of this turbo game where I was this mafia dayvig and I accidently shot mafia instead of the PR mafia were telling me to shoot.

You're town reading scum here but I don't care because I'm pretty sure you scum read greeting?

[Frogsterking]

Furtiveglance

's reads on everyone are literally useless when left unexplained, but I townread his predecessor so I'll be directing my attention elsewhere.

This kind of pointed shade isn't a part of Greeting's town range. There are like 5 people sheeping each other and I don't think of them Town read Greeting so just hammer it.

[Frogsterking]

Furtiveglance

's reads on everyone are literally useless when left unexplained, but I townread his predecessor so I'll be directing my attention elsewhere.

This kind of shade isn't normal from town!Greeting, fyi.

We have a train of like 4-5 people sheeping each other and Greeting is shading one of them here, so in theory it should be easy for this to go through.

I'm pretty sure this is one of the slots Cape and I both had in our scum pool anyway, so this wagon can go through by the end of the irl day if we all vote.

VOTE: Greeting

Fyi I don't feel bad moving my vote around either because I'm pretty sure my votes landed on two or more scum recently and the scum team is feeling it.

VOTE: BGC
VOTE: Dragons
VOTE: Greeting

Oooo yeah take it scum team.

I'm going to check and make greeting is in furtive's scum pool.

[Frogsterking]

chungus town guys pls stop

Marci:

1) are you scum

2) do you have a scum pool

3) is greeting in it

1. yes

2. yes

3. eh kinda

i think chungus seems convinced of their own pov and their takes arent 100% trash

I'm kind of skeptical because you've been heavily resistant to pushing anyone who is scum telling. If you really have a scum pool and Greeting is in it then I'll believe it when I see you vote there.

[Frogsterking]

Fennec was town guys.

I'm pretty sure anyway

I mean, I would hope so lmao

I agree slightly with your takes, like I can see StD to like a slight degree but am I crazy about Maria/Charloux/self vote as a wagon on someone? No

Now that BCG is seemingly trying, I think the takes from them are okay looking, like at least they are there. I am gonna assume that if BCG is town, then StD is low-confidence town based on 908/909.
Also LOL on Frogsterking apparently blowing up IC in a game?? Reminds me of this turbo game where I was this mafia dayvig and I accidently shot mafia instead of the PR mafia were telling me to shoot.

You're town reading scum here but I don't care because I'm pretty sure you scum read greeting?

I find it pretty odd that 2 scum are on different wagons at the same time on a regular game but whatever you say, especially with one of these supposed scum self voting
I would expect a play akin to jumping the gun over there if StD was scum, but I suppose that's speculation on my end

I don't find it really odd at all and I'm just grateful you at least aren't townsending greeting to me as well. Vote?

[Frogsterking]

unofficial vote count 1.8.2!

Big Chungus Gaming (4):

KittyTacky, PookyTheMagicalBear, Toogeloo, Frogsterking

Save The Dragons (3):

Charloux, STD, Maria

Frogsterking (2):

Big Chungus Gaming, Save The Dragons

Enchant (1):

Cape90

Toogeloo (1):

marcistar

Malcolm (1):

Not mafia, furtiveglance

Furtive (1):

Enchant

not voting (1):

MalcolmTucker, Greeting

with 16 alive, it takes 9 to blow someone up. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-10-12 15:00:00)

Top wagons all town. I'll vote Greeting, Malcolm or Toogeloo.

Thank God. Scum flip d1 then on Greeting. The other two are probably Town.

@Pooky

@Toogle

@NM

Trains shifting, we're speedrunning a Greeting lim instead because everyone has them in their lim pool and they're scum. We can have them flipped by lunch time if we VOTE.

[Frogsterking]

Greeting is at 2 votes and needs 7 more. Once they get close BGC or someone will hammer to get their silly bus cred.

Here's a list of Town people who can vote greeting:

Furtive
Pooky
Toogle
NM
Malcolm

*Marci

Pedit

*Wait marci voted dragons? Add marci

[Frogsterking]

Titus and Charloux are also Town BTW

[Frogsterking]

Marci there's like no way you're Town here lmao

[Frogsterking]

Marci why are you trying to derail the Greeting wagon?

[Frogsterking]

chungus town guys pls stop

Marci:

1) are you scum

2) do you have a scum pool

3) is greeting in it

1. yes

2. yes

3. eh kinda

i think chungus seems convinced of their own pov and their takes arent 100% trash

cape r u a simp

unfortunately not, why?

I mean, I am gullible, but not a simp

u should totally simp me and vote dragons

Sketch city

[Frogsterking]

I could see marci/mariar/bgc/greeting

[Frogsterking]

I could see marci/mariar/bgc/greeting

[Frogsterking]

I'll make this better with posttags and grammar later if I wake up. I'm hoping/expecting to just be killed N1 so i want to post something now in case I can't later.

low - moderate

certainty on all these reads.

Town:

Charloux: Charloux is kind of obv town. They're unafraid to post in the thread and clapped back at cape in a pretty convincing way.

Furtiveglance: furtiveglance is kind of obv town. Good catch up posts. I think their scum reads are exactly 33% which is above random chance and not dense at all considering it's D1.

Cape90: cape is kind of obv town. They have a good case on greeting and are effort posting a lot. I'm pretty sure he has scum in his town pool but I'm also pretty sure he's correctly townsorted someone I'm incorrectly scum reading, so I can respect what he's doing here.

NM: NM is obv town by virtue of being in Gamma's slot. @NM we need your vote on Greeting asap.

Enchant: Enchant replaced into Nero's slot who I wasn't comfy with early on but I think it could be nothing. Enchant is in their town meta right now. It's a town lean but be careful if their activity doesn't pick up later in the game.

Titus: Titus is in their town meta. I'm leaning town because I think they're sorting is genuine but be careful if they start speaking up more later and it's not making sense.

Pooky: I scum leaned for a while but I think this is town range now and they're votes do actually make sense. Town lean. @pooky we need you on greeting asap.

Toogle: usually when people play this way it's town. Just something i've empirically observed. I put toogle in my can't read list because I'm not actually confident I can read them.

KittyTacky: I think they have a good case on chungus and they did a good job addressing his toxic play and scum play simultaneously. Town lean.

MalcolmTucker: I think they have a good case on maria. It's possible he and cape are correct about what they're trying to tell me about dragons. I put malcolm in my cant read list because i dont actually think i can read them. I'm leaning town on them.

Marci: pain in my butt contrarian this game. I'm pretty sure they have a non existent read progression on dragons/maria and say the opposite take of whatever I make. Maybe scum!marci would avoid being a pain in my butt though? I think I town read them for a reason earlier? I don't see what they get out of provoking me. Gamma seemed fine with them. Town lean.

__

Dragons: can be town who got piled on because of me maybe. Sorry. Has definitely scum told though and is a dodgy slot. Scum lean.

Mariar: same with dragons except they're one of the ones pushing dragons through. Could be distancing between them so don't read too much into it. I dislike how they vanish once they're off the hook. Mariar is playing dodgy this game as well. Scum lean.

BGC: scum lock. Kill it with fire. Dodgy doesn't even begin to describe this slot. They are toxic and armed with a red PM. The town reads on this slot are yikes bad.

Greeting: scum lock. Greeting isn't even within orbit of their town game. Their iso and vca (looking at you Titus) are probably littered with wifom because in my experience scum!greeting doesn't intend to be around too long, so don't read into their movements today as much as you usually would with a d1 red flip. Get them out today and figure out the rest tomorrow.

Yall vote Greeting who haven't already and work your way bottom up this list if you need to hit scum to win.

Good night.

[Frogsterking]

why is game suddenly dead

viewtopic.php?p=13516214&user_select%5B ... #p13516214

[Frogsterking]

Hello.

scumpost ngl

Oops, I'll need to go ask my buddies to bus.

I like Fennec's approach so far, they seem open and townie.

Whether for the reasons presented or not so far I think Maria looks quite scummy here. There's a cagey defensiveness to some of their posts after being accused which vibes with me as scum trying to clear their name but not wanting to look overly desperate but panicky while doing so.

I think Fennec vs Frog is TvT. Fennec very much feels like they're thinking out loud in the thread in a townie way, while I find Frog's play can be quite erratic but engaged when they are town. I'm not particularly seeing strong scum motivation from either of them at the moment.

I've been trying to think of if there's a worldview where Frog is just a villa who is wrong but I can't get over the fact they just made up a worldview that never existed to begin with, and acted like they had this grand bait scheme. (didn't happen)

MT needs to have more votes on them, just look at that iso and tell me that's a villager mindset and not someone just watching from the sides taking shots posting busywork. It's such an obvious wolf iso

This is a lazy post and feels like an attempt to shift attention away from their Frogster read which clearly wasn't happening onto me. I've been relatively low activity so far but "watching from the sides taking shots" doesn't make sense, either I am watching from the sides and doing nothing or I am taking shots and committing to reads. Can't be both.

I'll go for these early posts from Malcolm. The joke about asking buddies to bus is just awkward, and MariaR is one of my strongest townreads.

I see what you mean. It goes against how I view the game but I'm open to it. There's always a possibility Malcolm got me to town lean him by saying things I want to hear.

[Frogsterking]

Oh ProfessorDrapion is back in the bunny alt trying to vote me out for his third game, third account in a row.

[Frogsterking]

Oh ProfessorDrapion is back in the bunny alt trying to vote me out for his third game, third account in a row.

It's funny you chose Bugs Bunny for this account Drap because I feel like I'M Bugs Bunny and you're that dude who bumbles around trying to catch the wabbit.

Drap has not been successful in any of his attempts to vote me out, FYI, though he did succeed each time in making the game way more difficult and complicated to win.

[Frogsterking]

I see that shut you up now that everyone knows who you are. Good.

[Frogsterking]

[Frogsterking]

there are some parallels but the typing style is significantly different enough where I think you are lying