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[Celebloki]

Hi

VOTE: camelCasedSnivy

[Celebloki]

Oh my bad, I'm not voting correctly. Sorry, it's been a long time.

Second time's a charm.

VOTE: VOTE: Camelcasedsnivy

[Celebloki]

Wow, I'm just gonna go hide in a corner and die of embarrassment.

[Celebloki]

VOTE: Hu Tao

please stop being scum

Nope

Clearly just admited to scum, ezpz

VOTE: Hu Tao

It's staring to rain here.

[Celebloki]

Those on the Hu Tao wagon, is there something about her play that is pinging so far is it more of a meme-wagon?

It was mostly a meme when I put the first vote on.

I’m getting gut pinged by Snivy this game, dunno why

I’ve never gotten scum pinged by them before and i never have seen them as scum, so it’s weird.

Complete opposite for me

Perhaps you are scum buddies then

You caught me.

But they've gone and admitted it again! For real though, I assume these are just jokes. In general I am not really getting scum vibes from Hu Tao and think pressure is better applied elsewhere.

UNVOTE: Hu Tao

I am curious why camelCasedSnivy has a town read on me, if only he'd elaborate more. I've written it off as page 2 shenanigans, but he seems to be sticking to it. Maybe they're just tickled by the way I did my opening post. He does seem to be rather combative reading him in ISO, I'm not sure how to feel about that. Might as well try and move some sort of wagon along.

VOTE: camelCasedSnivy

[Celebloki]

Wow, what a roller coaster of a catch-up. I was floored when I read heip picked Snivy's neighbors, but then had whiplash at Dannflor's bomb that FL lied about the neighborhood. If FL is lying though, why did Snivy not immediately say he was lying as well. There's still something there.

Heip suggesting another neighborhood seems wild, before Dannflor's post about FL lying, it doesn't seem crazy that those 4 would vote heip after FL's claims. I was expecting to pile on as well, that's a wild coincidence.

Assuming for the moment there is still something to FL's claims, there is still something suspicious to me about Snivy. I'll leave my vote there for now, but I am super dubious of heip as well.

[Celebloki]

How the heck does Heip essentially perfectly enumerate 2 neighborhoods.

[Celebloki]

Is this...

Smells like flavor shenanigan

A followup to this?

The hopping on snivy is interesting though.

I am having a hard time piecing together what you're trying to say.

[Celebloki]

No that was to Naerys. I was trying to figure out what "Smells like flavor shenanigan" was in reference too. She said it was "honey traps", but the honey traps thing was before all the neighborhood reveals. So I just had no idea why she would bring up honey traps in the middle of all that.

[Celebloki]

It's not a good look for Naerys, but I can also see the confusion. Not to noob claim, but I missed the neighborhood claim when I first read it last night. I was reading through it all and wondering what the hell Flavor Leaf was talking about. This morning I finally realized that a neighborhood was a mechanic and it all clicked in for me. I've been re-reading the thread with the new color of the neighborhood in mind to watch how the neighbors all talked to each other and a lot of stuff started to make way more sense.

Naerys didn't seem to believe the neighbor claim, even before Dannflor made his play, but missed that Snivy confirmed the claim. It's interesting she still votes heip even though she is saying she doesn't believe his claim.

[Celebloki]

STD said he was joking about his Neighbor claim, was just a response to heip saying those 4 names.

[Celebloki]

Things got super interesting for a few moments there and then suddenly ground to a halt.

I had some thoughts on heip, but I didn't want to voice them and insert thoughts into his head to parrot. I was hoping he'd provide more of a response to the whole thing before I said anything else. But he pretty much clammed up.

[Celebloki]

Ok, I will just go ahead and say what I am thinking. I didn't want to say this earlier because I didn't want heip to just parrot this and think I'm on his side. I'm not.

I will preface this by saying I don't regard this as a good defense by him and his lack of trying to explain himself at this point is more telling than the actual slip. I agree with Hu Tao that he's frozen scum.

...

Wait, how did I miss out the neighbor claim. My bad though.

I grouped smiley, Dann and FL out because they are the one of few guys who were actually posting game-relavent content

, so I thought it would be appropriate to ask snivy about the 3 reads. And a wild guess here, is STD, x, Titus and Narey in the same neighborhood and they have decided to wagon on me together?

If you do read the first few pages, the only people talking outside of RVS are Snivy and Smiley regarding Snivy's "Celeb's post is town" posts. FL and Snivy going back and forth about FL's gut ping on him, and again Dannflor and Smiley talking about me again. So up to that point on page 4, only the neighborhood was really talking. I still think it's a pretty wild coincidence if it was just a coincidence.

I only bring this up now because I was waiting to see if heip would try and fight this angle more. His lack of doing so so far is as much of a red flag to me as the slip itself. If he tries and use this argument now, the ship has sailed as far as myself being swayed by it. I am perfectly happy with his wagon and could be a final vote. I am also suspicious of Snivy, I think the mod has miscounted my vote on him. I think what I felt off about his posts make more sense after hearing about the neighborhood talk.

@Mod: I think you're pissing a vote from me on Snivy in 138

[Celebloki]

It wasn't a hammer, FL had unvoted last night to avoid it. X put him at -1, then back to -2 with the unvote.

[Celebloki]

Lol, pissing a vote, I meant missing

[Celebloki]

Wow, heip just keeps teetering on the brink. I still think he's likely scum. His defense didn't really sway me. There has been a lot of good info by keeping this in Day. In the hood I'm of the belief that at least FL and Dann are town. There's at least 1 scum between Snivy and Smiley. I'm still leaning towards Snivy. Outside of the hood I am still of the opinion that Naerys is likely scum and I am dubious of X. They seems like they've been trying hard to derail heip, but also appear to still be on board with it. I think if heip does flip town, we have some good leads for tomorrow, so it wouldn't be a hard loss.

Since we seem to be having trouble getting that last vote I'll add mine to the mix.

VOTE: heipizhu4

[Celebloki]

Was gonna say, you could still hammer, he was at E-1.

[Celebloki]

Just my random 2 cents, I feel like in my limited return I have seen a definite mood change on MS. Part of the reason I stop playing ~10 years ago was I felt the prevailing tactic was to be toxic when scumhunting. Either these days I take things less personally, I've been lucky in my returning games, or things have actually gotten a bit more cordial.

[Celebloki]

Well, we're back. I think good topics for discussion for today are Naerys, Snivy, and Smiley. Also, Hu Tao is to blame for heip, they said they'd take the heat

[Celebloki]

I can't decide how I feel about X's slot after the flip. Did they distance from the wagon and want to focus on the Hood thinning because they knew how heip was going to flip, or were they just given more pause about the coincidence?

[Celebloki]

Yeah, if Smiley flips town, you're either not town or not loyal and you'd be tomorrow's elim anyway, so we have that. I'm on board with a Smiley elim today. I mirror the sentiment that we wait for others to check in.

[Celebloki]

So Smiley is at E-2. We could go ahead and speedrun D2. Odd he has yet to say anything in main thread. I'm very curious what the damning thing he said in the hood was.

[Celebloki]

It is mildly annoying that it felt like Smiley was quick hammered (especially with the self-hammer) to avoid any more discussion D2. But thinking more on it, what more discussion could there have been. It almost made more suspicious of davesaz for putting him at E-1 to allow for the self-hammer, but I'm not sure that's really what happened. I was curious before the hammer if Dann had had anything more to say outside the hood before nightfall.

My running hypothesis was that the neighborhood was 2/2 on town/scum, but I'm not sure if that makes sense either. I'd love to hear something out of gob's slot, CCS has yet to chime in as well.

Do we think outside of FL and scum that there may be any other NKers out there?

[Celebloki]

My issue with Naerys now is that she was initially unbelieving of your neighborhood claim. Now that we know Smiley's alignment and that he was in the hood, surely the rest of scum knew from the start about the hood. I'm not sure Naerys would have argued back and forth with you over your claim in that case. She seemed genuinely confused to me. Not like it was an act to pretend not to have TMI.

[Celebloki]

Dang, you guys had to go and post a bunch of pages about me right when I had to go to a mandatory meeting I couldn't ignore and post here during.

I'm not going to try and go back and pull quotes to respond to each of the things said, but I'll try and express some of the things I saw while reading.

My long post about heip and discussing how I could see his slip possibly wasn't a slip:

He eluded to essentially what I said, but had only sort of hand waved it. I, for better or worse, am very cognizant of putting ideas into other peoples heads and generally try not to post defenses on behalf of others or strategy that scum might do in the event that they either do that or parrot what I said as their defense. I had assumed heip would more actively try and defend himself and elaborate more on his 'slip'. When time had passed and he had only posted a few very small posts, not really responding, I just did not get town vibes from that. I was waiting to see if he would, but then I saw the wagon on him moving fast so decided I might as well express that it was conceivable it was not a slip. At the end of the day I felt his lack of defending himself looked worse than the slip and I voted him.

Naerys:

I still find her scummy, I still think the argument with FL over the neighbor claim looks terrible on her. She is probably still one of my top scum reads. I only offered my defense on her because again I can see the angle she came from at the time. We know now scum knew about the neighborhood long before the claim, they had an inside man. I re-read the neighbor claims and Naerys this morning and her posts leave room for slightly more doubt for me, but can still accept it could be theater.

Heip's flip causes me to want to be more careful.

I should probably stop trying to offer defense points to people that aren't posting and just wait for them to post. I get bored.

[Celebloki]

I think there's no way a Doc would target Hu Tao. Most likely FL was RBed or hit scum again.

[Celebloki]

Oh well if it was theater, let's get her out of here.

[Celebloki]

I'm sure we're all busy people, we don't need to get into a debate on who is the most busy. There's a reason the day deadline is long. Everyone is in a rush in here, sheesh.

[Celebloki]

apologies if they're confirmed but I would like to vote camelCasedSnivy or Celebloki because of how late they jumped on the heipizhu4 wagon.

I jumped on late because I was hoping he'd come in and post something more substantial. I was on board with his wagon and as stated before, found his lack of defense more damning. Considering we seem to have a lot of busy people in here that need time to post, maybe we should slow it down a bit more.

[Celebloki]

I was RVS wagoning Hu Tao D1 because she admit twice she was scum. Maybe it wasn't actually a joke.

[Celebloki]

FWIW, I read Gamma as Town on D1 and still lean town.

I don't really know what more there is so say, from my point of view FL is confirmed to be what he claimed. At this point I'm inclined to believe he struck true again on Hu Tao and that that's where we should go. I think the odds of Hu Tao scum are greater than being RBed. If Hu Tao is not scum, we at least confirm whether or not there is a mafia RB.

[Celebloki]

Are you talking to me?

[Celebloki]

Just making sure lol. I couldn't tell if you were referring to your 875 or something and you thought I should have a response to that. I assumed you're referring to 883 and dave, but didn't want to seem like I was leaving you hanging or something. I try to answer posts directed at me.

[Celebloki]

So you're saying he lied claiming to have failed to shoot Smiley and got lucky he flipped red?

[Celebloki]

What is it with people skating in here without reading major events? FL literally claimed as soon as D2 started and that he shot at Smiley.

[Celebloki]

I'll believe the dave soft claim and am happy to go along with Naerys, but if you're going to be town, at least understand the gamestate. This goes for Hu Tao and Gob.

p-edit: It at least proves he knew something about smiley and was happy to immediately out him. And since he flipped scum it certainly means he at least for now is pro-town.

[Celebloki]

Apparently just saying, "Stop voting _____" is a masterful full claim that we all should have known exactly what it meant.

[Celebloki]

I guess reading dave's posts shows some change of perspective between days. 588 and 601 on D2 shows he's dubious, might have decided from that to Cop her, then D3 from 658 onwards he has her listed as town, in 879 putting her at the top of his town reads outside himself. I suppose a innocent read could be why he changed his mind. If outside of that opening post, this is supposed to be obvious breadcruming though...

[Celebloki]

I hear they're the worst.

[Celebloki]

I similarly don't think massclaiming just yet is such a great idea. We aren't exactly close to ELO yet.

[Celebloki]

I don't know wtf we're doing anymore. I thought maybe we should avoid a massclaim for now before some other PR comes out of the woodwork. My concern is we've had a lot of investigatives claim so far, no protectives, keep any protective town we have hidden so they can have a reasonable plan to target someone and stay alive. Idk what pisskop is and what inspired him to speak up before a massclaim started, but now he's potentially a goner. I feel like everyone's acting like we're at ELO. Aren't we like, far from it?

I'm going out for dinner and trivia, hopefully some new crazy development hasn't happened.

[Celebloki]

Back from trivia, I did OK. So I guess everyone wants to claim. Are we doing this willy nilly like we have been or are we going to do this in some sort of order? I’m going to bed, can claim tomorrow if we have some sort of plan.

[Celebloki]

One of the categories was Halloween trivia, apparently cabbage used to be though to have supernatural properties around Halloween or something like that.

[Celebloki]

Well I was under the impression we were going to mass claim and that FL was picking the order. And based on this ...

Dave isn’t a cop they’re a role that functions like a cop, so I’m most curious about what the actual role is. We’ve had 2 nights to use something.

Then go like Celebloki and Pisskop claims.


PEdit: scratch that, the worst and celebloki

He wanted Dave to full claim first. Should I still be waiting on him and the worst? I haven't seen anyone actually fully claim their roles and gates. If we just want vague role claims with no details I can go.

If we're not doing that should we just get Naerys out of here?

[Celebloki]

I'm impatient because we screeched to a halt over this mass claim idea, talked a bunch about order and claiming days and shots, then no one that FL called out as first claimed or said what their gates and shots were. If I seem hesitant to claim, it's because it's my belief that my claim will kill me. I wasn't quite ready to exit the game tonight. But if that's what it takes to move the game along, I'm a protective role.

[Celebloki]

I'll also say that given my protective role...

I think there's no way a Doc would target Hu Tao. Most likely FL was RBed or hit scum again.

I did not target Hu Tao.

[Celebloki]

It is mildly annoying that it felt like Smiley was quick hammered

(especially with the self-hammer) to avoid any more discussion D2. But thinking more on it, what more discussion could there have been. It almost made more suspicious of davesaz for putting him at E-1 to allow for the self-hammer, but I'm not sure that's really what happened. I was curious before the hammer if Dann had had anything more to say outside the hood before nightfall.

My running hypothesis was that the neighborhood was 2/2 on town/scum, but I'm not sure if that makes sense either. I'd love to hear something out of gob's slot, CCS has yet to chime in as well.

Do we think outside of FL and scum that there may be any other NKers out there?

I'll also say that I said I was annoyed at how fast D2 ended and wishing I knew a bit more about what Dann had said in the hood before Smiley speed hammered himself because had I had more info, I probably would have protected Dann N2 instead of who I did. I really think scum did try and end that day as fast as possible before the day ended. I'm still miffed scum got more info on that day because of the hood than town did.

My last question was also me mildly fishing for if the people I did target were maybe saved. I realize only the people that took shots would know the answer to that question.

[Celebloki]

In the event I am chosen for NK tonight, I can still say who I have tried to protect so far in case that helps, but I'm inclined to hear some more claims if there are anymore to be had before I do.

[Celebloki]

You can probably guess one of my targets pretty easily.

[Celebloki]

well before I wind up dead, and since I'm not sure we'll have any other claims, I protected Gamma N1, they were a town read I had D1 and I wanted to protect someone outside the hood. I figured scum wouldn't kill within the hood N1 to keep a pad on who was probably scum there. N2 I protected FL since he was the only PR I knew about.

[Celebloki]

I think it is very likely there's a Mafia Roleblocker considering all the town PRs we seem to have

[Celebloki]

Think she's still only at E-1, we're not in twilight.

[Celebloki]

pisskop also claimed to be a PR to push a massclaim along and then never went anywhere with that. Our massclaim was really just a Celeb claim and we'll all pretend we're doing a mass claim. I can't shake the feeling now people are trying to set me up for a mis elim tomorrow. Gonna get role blocked than be the policy lim tomorrow.

[Celebloki]

Sorry had to run to the pharmacy before they closed. TBH, I think I've changed my mind on naerys. Call it a scumtell all you want, when Titus "hammered" I didn't know if she hadn't realized she already had a vote on Naerys and was trying to fake twilight, but I noticed and decided to watch instead of say something. Maybe Naerys realized she hadn't been hammered either, but her E-1/fake twilight reactions seem genuine to me. That coupled with how the "massclaim" went and how others voted makes me think about this game differently. pisskop slid hard into scum territory for me. I personally think FL is still conftown because I don't think he'd hard bus Smiley if he was scum, but I think his read of the game has become misguided.

At this point I believe dave's claim and that Hu got an inno, I'm changing my mind on Naerys, still think FL is town. I still think Gamma is town.

I think there's scum in pk, gob, the worst, snivy.

I'm also not sure what to think about Titus at this point or if there was strategy in the double vote or if it was just forgetting she already had a vote on naerys.

[Celebloki]

That said, I'm not going to join the naerys wagon.

VOTE: pisskop

[Celebloki]

Holy cow, I left to start dinner and like 5 pages appeared. Why does this game pick up when I'm not at my computer spamming refresh. I gotta step away again, but I'd like to catch up and stay involved after I can sit down again. I'm leaving my vote on PK for now until I get back.

[Celebloki]

I can go along with a TW elim. I still think we could also go pisskop. I feel like the claim to THS's kill at least means we have to confirm that.

VOTE: the worst

[Celebloki]

I think the solve here for town is TW, PK, and gob. I arrived here mostly from PoE( I honestly think everyone else is town, maybe not so much Snivy, could swap him for gob), but the last several pages since the Naerys elim fell apart seals it for me.

gob now stands out to me since his prod. Comes in here calling both the worst and pisskop mafia, but don't vote one way or the other. Comes off to me as bussing but doesn't want to commit to a particular side.

[Celebloki]

I wish I never claimed lol. FL may have really tried to get rid of me, but I was starting to change my mind on his slot. Got me out while I was still fully pocketed.

[Celebloki]

Titus kills davesaz

Nah can't risk a save.

Titus kills Celeboki

Received

- Dragon

Darn, if you hadn't switched we would have had no deaths that night. I was likely to go after FL if I was still alive too.

[Celebloki]

I targetted dave as my save the night I died.

[Celebloki]

My thoughts as a mod:
Setup wise I think this was probably the swingiest setup I've ever seen, but I can't say it was particularly maf sided. If Dannflor remained alive he could get a second guilty (in fact, he was deciding between two different scum to investigate on Night 2!). If the worst managed to stay alive, he would've killed FL most likely. Still, 4 scum is very strong.

When I saw what role FL rolled, I was excited because it felt like the role was perfect for him. Well, it was. I think FL was MVP for the scum team, with his powerbus winning him amazingly good towncred followed by eliminating any towny that started to dissent and suspect him. Amazing play. The rest of the scum team also played really well though - Smiley with spotting FL early like a pro, Titus with making the perfect kill every single night, and gob with looking extremely towny so that in ELo town had no chance of actually voting scum correctly.

Also if Dann's claim hadn't stayed in the hood and I was aware of it, I would 100% have saved him instead of FL(lol) that night.

[Celebloki]

I actually have a question for the vets here, when I saw I rolled Doctor, my initial inclination was to never claim it. But as the mass claim was rolling along I wasn't sure if I should have lied with a VT claim, or just said I was a Doc. Should I have stuck to my gut and not claimed?

[Celebloki]

Aside from the master bus on STD by FL, I think the other great scum play was ending D2 so fast before more info could have gone out. If Dann had been saved by me, we would have had a lot more info to proceed with. Good game. Town got so confused at the end lol.

[Celebloki]

I targetted dave as my save the night I died.

Wouldn't matter, being macho...

oh right, we never should have mass claimed when we did.