Mafia 90-Lolwat? Mafia, Game Over, Mafia Win

[ThAdmiral]

replacing in.

reading up.

[ThAdmiral]

replacing in.

reading up.

Who are you replacing? If you're replacing SC, then cool, I'd like to hear what you have to say. If you're replacing literl, you should know that you're the #1 bandwagon a few days before deadline and you might want to consider claiming.

Anyway, let's please lynch someone before deadline. Right now, I think Literl has 4 votes on him, and I think Empking has 3. There are also several people not voting; everyone needs to bandwagon up ASAP, I'd be fine with either bandwagon at the moment just so long as we lynch someone; if we spend this long on day 1 and totally fail to lynch at all it would be teh suck.

Replacing literl.

I'll answer all questions once I've finished reading.

[ThAdmiral]

still reading but I see people want to lynch me even though I haven't even had a chance to say anything .

As far as I can tell so far the only thing people are saying about me/litral is that we are "scummy"...which is pretty hard to defend against. If anyone wants to write up an actual case I will respond as well as I can (obviously I can't explain everything litral did), and am willing to claim if necessary. I don't have the flavor yet, but I'm getting it off natirasha.

[ThAdmiral]

ok the delays in me reading is because I replaced in to a number of games at once.
Probably not advisable, but I'm catching up and once I am up to date I will be able to manage fine.

Also on the not-scum hunting thing - I generally am not known for my pursuit of scum at the best of times so me not immediately doing it as soon as I entered this game is a null-tell. I've got some time now, though, so expect a summary/case soon (as in within the next couple of hours).

[ThAdmiral]

After a pretty unexciting discussion about whether bandwagoning is good or bad, and also an unexciting discussion about misunderstandings, rofl foses gnkoichi. He follows it up with:

Rofl, are you FoSing me for the quote wall? If so, why me and not the two people after me? If not, why FoS me without giving a reason?

not for the quote wall, that would be infantile. and i'd like to see if anyone else sees what i see before giving reasons.

I hate it when people say stuff like this.
At best it's bad play, at worst it's distancing or simply scum mud-slinging.

There are also numerous posts by alvin during this period in which he appears to be buddying with rofl. So scum points there.

OH MY GOD! Coug, please read more carefully.

I'm trying. (In fact, I went back and made sure that I was already voting MafiaSSK before I did so.)

Yos2 was doing a paraphrasing of you not telling you what to do.

hey look more information instead of analysis. why aren't there more votes on this scum yet?

rofl brings up iioa (an overrated scum tell at the best of times) again having done it a few times before. He also has that annoying tendency to tunnel on people displayed here with the last sentence. He will later do that with litral/me (the funny thing about these tunneling players is that they are almost always wrong and then when they are proven wrong they just pretend it never happened).

There is then talk about the ills of a "lurker wagon" (i.e. 2 votes by litral and lowel) which, it must be said, got number 14 talking.

(by the way I will not deny litral was a bit...well he seemed to find it hard to express himself. I think what he was trying to say initially is that if number14 could make post which clearly showed he was keeping up with the game why didn't he make that post earlier instead of when he was called out for it, which is a somewhat ok point)

rofl comes in around now and posts:

this game gets my full and undivided attention a la mañana

i agree that lurkerhunting is v scummy, especially with so much else going on in the game

which seems like he wants to be in with the populist opinion. In keeping with this he then votes litral a few posts later.
(by the way what ever happened to the obvscum ssk? and what was it he saw about gnkoichi?)

for some reason penguins also starts buddying with rofl.

then the masons get outed. And vino makes as big a slip as I've seen.


Ok this is taking a lot longer than I thought (was distracted by tv ). Will continue tomorrow but my main choices for scum are rofl and vino. If I had to choose I would choose vino. Even though there is a lot of small things about rofl I don't like, the slip is a major scum-tell against vino.

[ThAdmiral]

Rofl, bringing up other games as the VERY FIRST THING you use to defend yourself is basically admitting that you have NOTHING to defend yourself with in this game.

What's wrong with that, and why is Empking still alive?

Are you and rofl the same person?
Also for the record I'm in the "outing the masons was a bad play" camp.

@ rofl: what did ever happen to obvscum ssk? And also what did you see in gnkoichi's post?

back to the summary/case.

I focused mainly on rofl in my previous one, and now I'm going to focus on rofl, vino and penguins as they are my top three suspects.

from about page 15 onwards, i.e. after the mason outage, penguins is generally unhelpful and starts tunneling on yossarian for being, not scum, but sk.
for example:

The problem is that now the SK probably won't kill us, and instead, will be much more likely real town power roles, when I would much rather he would kill glorified townies like us.

I hadn't thought of

that.

It's as if you can read the mind of how a serial killer would behave in this game, it's truly uncanny, the detail in which to see the SK's point of view rather than, say, the more populous and prevalent mafia, which, I dunno, I presonally feel is more of a threat given that so far we had no night and no evidence of a serial killer.

Of course yos wouldn't have any idea what an sk would do based on his massive experience, would he?[/sarcasm]

I would also like to point out now a flaw in penguins original logic for outing the masons. Why would the scum mason draw attention to themselves by voting one of the other masons? And if you believed there was indeed scum in the masons wouldn't it be the correct play for other masons to vote other masons if they thought they were acting scummy?

penguins also keeps listing his "scum list" saying he would be happy to lynch any of them. This strikes me as the rather scummy tactic of being able to hop on any number of wagons if they happened to appear (there were up to 7 names on the list).

Around this time vino refuses to claim. I am ok with that since he was only at -3, but he states that he was in no danger of a lynch, and seems just a little too comfortable where he is. I find this odd since there was a lot of talk about a vino lynch just a couple of pages before.

by the way @ vino: I know that people were talking about the possibility of scum in the masons, or even saying they were sure there were scum in the masons, but your statement implied

knowledge

that there was scum in the mason group. In my opinion it's a pretty strong slip.

soon after - penguins self vote. ugh. I've definitely seen scum do that to discourage a lynch, in fact I've done it as scum (it worked too, as it did here).

vino is protective of his meta. Why? (that question at vino)

penguins and rofl have a major buddy session where penguins asks rofl to lynch him and rofl doesn't do it.


Ok ran out of time again but I'll be back on hopefully later tonight.

[ThAdmiral]

admiral, no i'm not a dgb alt, i can only strive to be half as awesome as a dgb alt

<3

Now ThAdmiral's last post is scummy to the extreme in that there is hardly a word in it that fits what a townie might deduce. It goes against every gut call I have, thoughtful consideration, common sense, etc.

It's as if the town is on the right track, and someone just barged in to derail it in the opposite direction.

Hey ThAdmiral, which game did you play in New York with Toaster Strudel? It was a long one, too. I remember that you had weird opinions. Were you scum in that game?

I can't remember which game that was, although I don't think I was mafia. I could have a look through my history but alternatively

you

could have a look through my history if you really want to know.

Also I'm not surprised you think I am scummy simply because I have opinions that differ from your own. This seems to be a recurring pattern in your general play.

back to the summary...

Penguins gets angry at people for not listening to his scum list. Gnkoichi brings up the good point that this is because penguins hadn't done any decent analysis in the game, and so obviously no one was going to listen to his list.

Penguins also keeps claiming he is at -1 when he is at -2. I'm not so sure this is the trap gnkoichi/koc think it was, I think it was more to further discourage any more votes.

Then koc decides to be an idiot for a couple of pages. I can at least somewhat understand his frustration and then acting out like he did, since it seems that people who had acted stupid were avoiding being lynched. It's still incredibly scummy though. Will be keeping an eye on him as well.

vino is consistently posting townie-like as well. This might be due to the extra caution of a scum in the spot-light, but I'm willing to cook my suspicions.

unvote

knight of cydonia continues to lurk and then just come in with random poetry. Funnily enough this does work. People, for the most part, do not put votes on him and instead focus on other people.

I think I will

vote :koc

once again have run out of time, will continue tomorrow.

[ThAdmiral]

I will put my vote somewhere this week, but I won't be around for deadline. It's likely to be a dump vote.

knight of cydonia continues to lurk and then just come in with random poetry. Funnily enough this does work. People, for the most part, do not put votes on him and instead focus on other people.

I think I will vote :koc

This whole stringing out of his readthrough feels artificial to me - and if you'd read through all my poetry phase, you'd note that once it was confirmed PM's could be full-quoted, I quoted my role, which has a PR activated by a certain number of votes.

Haven't got up to that bit yet.
Also

noted

that you only decide that my read-through is artificial after I vote you.

Thanks armlx.

List of people not voting:

Head_Honcho, Cydonia, roflcopter, BSG, StrangerCoug,

ThAdmiral

, alvinz95

Deadline is apparently "February" and I am not willing to risk a D1 non-lynch, so I urge the people on this list to consider their options and make a decision.

I am too voting.

This whole stringing out of his readthrough feels artificial to me.

I totally agree with this, and more.

What does this even mean?
Do you think I'm not reading through? Or do you think I've already read through and am pretending to do a summary slowly?

[ThAdmiral]

ThAd - I find that part of your summary scummy because it implies that you had read past the point where I told the town I had a PR. Not to mention the fact that you picked an incredibly odd point to stop reading if you are telling the truth, and the fact that if you did stop before I revealed my PR, you're lying because there was quite a lot of attention on me, and a fair few votes, IIRC.

I'd read up to page 27. Around this time you continued doing your poetry but no other votes were put on you, in fact people started looking at others like empking and yossarian.

This whole stringing out of his readthrough feels artificial to me.

I totally agree with this, and more.

What does this even mean?
Do you think I'm not reading through? Or do you think I've already read through and am pretending to do a summary slowly?

No, I think you are drawing conclusions that are contrary to those of a majority.

Is there an explanation for that?

Wait are you saying i'm scummy because I don't agree with what everyone else is saying?
I don't feel the need to explain that.


bit more summarisation (which no one seems to like, but oh well, I'm doing it more for myself anyway)...

Empking is called out for not posting much and then just posting weird questions. I don't know, does he do this in other games, or is his activity low normally. I don't think it's massive scum points.

Then the masons start quoting their pms. Number 14 and yosarian are confirmed in my eyes (due to the crucial bolding). After that people could just copy.

Then koc claims. I've got to say it does seem to be in the style of this game, I'd say it's real.

unvote: koc

Although it is a bit fishy that you put yourself to the required threshold were you needed to rhyme. Why did you do this?
also yossarian makes a good point that you still could have been useful for the most part even though you were rhyming. I think most people (including me) saw you were doing the 4 line couplets thing and didn't even bother reading them.

Penguins makes a good point about scum not wanting people to have large town lists, but Empking makes the point that scum could easily be on those large town lists and they would want that, which is also a good point.

Then there is a push for the litelrl lynch. I can understand it but people were saying he was lurking when he was, as it turned out, inactive. It's not like he was posting elsewhere.

here ends the

artificial

summary for today.

[ThAdmiral]

In case I don't get a chance to lay a vote down before I go absent:

Vote: ThAdmiral

Didn't like Litral much, I feel the readthrough is just an artifical construct to make him appear like he's contributing now... And to be honest, I can't see any other options right now.

Koichi, stop parodying and give reasoning.
PotS, while I may be on the LitrAdmiral wagon, it isn't "collective wisdom" until a majority says so, so stop portraying it as such.

I saw this coming a mile away. "Going to be absent for the deadline so I better put a vote on the lynch leader".
That's not scummy at all.[/sarcasm]

anyway back to my summary...

vino points out that yossarian posting an image is a modkillable offense. Normally I would say that is a scum act but I don't feel as strongly about this one. (still could be a subversive move to get someone modkilled)

gnkoichi states that there was a difference in his mason pm. This seems to have been a mistake in just his pm. Penguins, begrudgingly, gets town points for this.

gnkoichi claims penguins was being inconsistent and even puts up posts to show this, but, as penguins says, this didn't prove that at all.

Shortly after this talk of a deadline starts to come up. It seems that there are the two main contenders now - literl/me and empkings alt.
And that basically brings us up to date.

Empking seems to be under pressure due to his tendency to lurk and post very short and unhelpful comments. I do not feel strongly about empking.

As far as literl/me goes I have tried to explain literls actions as best as I can. In the end I think it comes down to him not being a very good player or communicator.

I think if people want to lynch based off a single instance vino's slip would still be my pick.

As far as overall play I think koc would be a good option depending whether you believe his claim or not (it's shady at best).
I've gone off penguins and, to a lesser extent, rofl, but I still don't really like their style of play.

[ThAdmiral]

phew finally finished!

[ThAdmiral]

yeah it got a bit stupid sometimes. But at the very least its an interesting game.

[ThAdmiral]

actually I'm going to

vote: rofl

until he tells what it was he saw in gnkoichi's post way back when. I forgot that he never addressed that.

[ThAdmiral]

You fosed gnkoichi followed by:

Rofl, are you FoSing me for the quote wall? If so, why me and not the two people after me? If not, why FoS me without giving a reason?

not for the quote wall, that would be infantile. and i'd like to see if anyone else sees what i see before giving reasons.

You never elaborated.

[ThAdmiral]

unvote: rofl

I still don't get why you asked if anyone else saw it. Can you explain that as well?

In other news please note that I haven't been returning any of the gnkoichi love that I have been receiving (although it is nice to have a special someone for valentines day!) as I am about as wary of it as I am of rolf/pots relationship. I didn't want to say anything though as he seems to be the only one that thinks I'm town and I'd rather not alienate him.

[ThAdmiral]

I will say that I won't be voting gnkoichi as I feel he's been, for the most part, a somewhat solitary voice of reason in this, as rofl so aptly puts it, "carnival".

[ThAdmiral]

I don't know his alignment, I just wanted to make my stance on the issue clear.

There are plenty of other people I am willing to vote.

[ThAdmiral]

fair enough.

I'm going to stick with the slip, as I think generally these are the best tells you can get in mafia.

vote: vino

[ThAdmiral]

Oh I see. Just read the rules and realised that a majority is required to lynch.

Will switch my vote if needed to avoid no lynch.

[ThAdmiral]

Name: Glen Blue
Flavor: The Curator of the History Museum. Your current special exhibit is on glue.
Alignment: Town--You win when all non-neutral factions besides the town are dead.
Active Abilities--You may use one a night.

Glutaful

: Each night, you will invite someone to the art museum before going to their night's activities. You will shake hands and become glued together. Anyone who tries to kill you will be incapable of finding you. However, if people want the dude your glued to dead, they will have to kill you too.

It's not a powerrole, but it can be pretty useful. Also with a doc I believe there can be 2 protects for the price of 1.

Also I will just point out that I didn't know that there needed to be a majority to lynch prior to about 2 days ago.
I said I was willing to vote for gnkoichi if it was close to deadline (and I mean a couple of hours close) because I would rather have a lynch than a no-lynch. Until then, however, I will not vote for him and will continue to be advocate against his lynch.
I especially don't like it how people are accusing me of flip-flopping when I have been quite consistent with my point of view, while others have

actually

been flip-flopping between me/empking/gnkoichi/others.

[ThAdmiral]

Just checked and it's exactly as nat gave it to me.

[ThAdmiral]

for people who think its fake because it doesn't have a role bit I can once again only say that it is exactly as nat gave it to me. I do note though that the example power role on page one doesn't have a role bit either.

The right play is to lynch someone else and then vig me tonight.

[ThAdmiral]

for people who think its fake because it doesn't have a role bit I can once again only say that it is exactly as nat gave it to me. I do note though that the example power role on page one doesn't have a role bit either.

The right play is to lynch someone else and then vig me tonight.

That makes no sense. If we try to vig you tonight, your role will protect you. How close are we to lynching this guy?

I guess I had questions to answer from a while back. As for why I thought ThAd was town at first was his good play in his first few posts. He gave honest analysis, mostly ignored the criticism against his predecessor, and made a few reads that I agreed with.

His flip didn't bother me because he said he was willing to lynch me to avoid a no lynch (which I was also prepared to do in order to help town find real scum after I was gone). It was because he said he was wary of me, then said he thought I was town, then said he was ready to vote for me. Those three were a very odd triangle of comments.

Perhaps I used a poor choice of words with "wary".
I was basically saying that I didn't like it when penguins or rofl made assumptions about peoples alignments and pushed them strongly and it didn't like it when you did it either. It was like you were conforming to their, in my opinion, bad style of play.

[ThAdmiral]

I am a leniant mod, but info in your bah post is against the rules.

[ThAdmiral]

sorry about that