Mafia 98 - Apennine Mafia (Game Over)
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Note my sig
Actually,I dig and agree with Mastin's review. With this having no power roles the basic idea is going to be a lobotomization from the scum.
So, who would think of hasgafads as a key lobotomy point?
However, the tinfoil says that Mastin as scum could go the brazen I wouldn't do this as scum because it would be awesome.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Trying to catch up with stupid pay by hour internet sucks.
I see a whole lot of classic rigamarole about setup speculation (which is null), pushing out of the rvs (which is null)... but, a growing wagon that seems to be growing under its own growth and not "real reasons" which... isn't null.
I will try to give a better synopsis but looking at how its going I dig Mastin for now. My scum-theory isn't panning out with how he is acting after the fact.
Ireland is a hoot btw.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Yes, I am in fact still in Ireland.
This hotel has free internet so I can at least post some. Dont expect MEGGAAAAPOST until I get back though.
I figured I'd sit down and catch up on this game and almost immediately my eyes bled out. Good lord.
Ready for a few SHOCKERS!
1.) Pretty sure BM is town. This shouldn't be a surprise. The pro/con scum motivation for pulling the "great trap" ESPECIALLY in a mountainous setup makes me go woah.
2.) Mastin felt town early, but the fact I haven't seen much Mastin posting since the walls of doom starts to give me the twitch again.
3.) What worries me on a first real read isn't the players "on spotlight" but the players I dont pick out aside from some sniping... like Zach.
You'll get more later. I am keeping up and I WILL give some fat loots when I get back.
In the meantime:
Unvote, Vote: Zachrules-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Ohh this game.
KMD comes in and we prove... that he's not retarded. Which I could have told you without all the SECRET PLANS. Well done.
I really want to review the difference in how Zach seems to be talking in regards to Mastin as the wagon grows when I'm back on firm ground. (note this is a note to note I must note this)
Good lord I'm tired.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Ok, its obvious from catching up thus far that some of you are sick. Swine flu or whatever, there's something going on.
Get a bucket.
Vomit IN the bucket. Not somehow get it INTO the computer.
However, I'm cool with it because this vomit lends credence to something very important: I'd put money there is a scum-split between those that have the word sickness and those that dont.
The Deathly Ill:
Alexhans
Battle Mage
Benmage
GIEFF
Mastin
No way in hell all this spew is town. Of the above there is scum.
Now, WIFOM all you want or call shitty play or whatever - BM's move with "who is the cop"in this setupreeks town.
Additionally, I'm taking off the the tinfoil regarding Mastin for now.
So, of: (Alex, Benmage, GIEFF) there is a scum.
NOW, on the absolute flipside:
Cephrir - 4 posts (NOTE: THIS IS AS MANY AS I WHO HAD TO PAY FOR MY DAMN INTERNET ON VACATION HAVE)
Actually, you know what?
Unvote, vote: Cephrir
The fact there has been this power lurking is suspect.
The fact that I saw my name get sniped AND this whole hulabloobloo about "not scumhunting" get shot out (by GIEFF towards Camn ffs) is suspect.
Cephrir is beyond normal lurking. This is hiding in the waterfall of a buddies vomit.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Its not that it was a "good trap" - its the motivation for it.
The only outcome(s) possible were: catching a retarded scum or nothing.
There is no scum machinations behind it nor, with the way he did it, an overall "ohh shit thats so town move".
Its genuine in what it is.
And if you think my list is random well that just confirms your place on it. The amount of spew (which you have been a part of) is not an accident - especially in a mountainous game.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Yes, it is bad. Moreso, it is very suspect behavior.GIEFF wrote:Looking at this table, the top 5 people on my scum-list (based on actions, not on lurking) are in the top 5 spots after me. This is probably because I am not able to find scummy things from people who don't post a lot, and so I focus on the more-active people, which allows scum-lurking to be a successful strategy. Which is bad.
Spy, do you have any suspicions of anybody based on something besides what you call "spew"? Have you read my case of BM in post 378, or my case on camn at the top of this page?
What do you mean when you say "saw your name get sniped?"
The spew IS a symptom of what is going on - we're already seeing the game get clogged up because of it. In a mountainous game especially, it is a wonderful smokescreen. It needs to stop.
As for sniped: I saw in reading from vacation MY name get brought up questioningly more than once... but I definitely do not recall Cephrir's.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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... so you are saying that a random list has the same value as what I see as being the classic scum-breakpoint for this game the way it is going? AWESOME.Benmage wrote:I am not saying the list was random. I am saying I could make just as an effective list, doing it randomly.
"Catching a retard scum" exactly...not a likely scenario. Yet he's been gaining some "townpoints" for it for certain people, which I don't like.
Catching a retarded scum IS the most likely scenario apart from nothing happening.
What scum motivation would there be for it?
He's not SUPER TOWN (TM) - but as it sits I see the whole thought process early on as either: 1.) Very town or 2.) VERY subtly manipulative to appear thus. I've opted, for now, to sit with 1.Benmage wrote: Oh wow multipostssss, lol. I meant in my last one to re-ask Spry, why you excluded Mastin from being scummy?-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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You're not even reading everything in a post before you start replying are you?Alex wrote:That's a fair thought. But... wich from where?
YES I TOTALLY DO AND EXPLAINED JUST THAT...Alex wrote: oh... so you should think jammer is town too for the 4 scum issue right? You know that those things can be faked TO BE SEEN AS TOWN!?
Traps that obv wouldn't work (even if BM were town) but might help him look townier.
(guess you explained later in 540. But you know where I stand)
Except, no I didn't. Apples != B52 Bombers.
The trap "could" have worked. Moreso, its failure in a binary state caused no harm.
Jammer's business is different and ultimately inapplicable here.
Of those three? Currently, GIEFF but you sure like to race up in the scum speedway 9000.Alex wrote: Who is your biggest suspicion? why? Benmage has word sickness?
Also, SpyreX.... Camn, BM or KMD are word healthy?
My biggest is Cephirir, hence the vote.
BM word healthy? No. However, I've addressed why I think he's genuinely got the disease.
Camn and KMD? They push the edge, but my eyes dont bleed when they post / I see enough signal:noise to not bother me.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Its not a simple "OHH SHI I AM COPS LOLOLOL" - the nuance is there.Alex wrote:597: What scum can be so retarded to claim cop by direction? Even if they didn't realize it was a mountanious game... They would certainly be afraid of a counterclaim...
Also... We know that a good player will act the same as scum or town... so if he laid traps as town he would surely pretend to lay traps as scum too.
I'm happy you're finally available to chip in. That's what we need.
If the reply was "I dont understand why you are rolefishing" I would have hung them up so fast it would have made your eyes spin. Etc, etc.
Like I've said, over and over, BM's "gambit" was town-motivated because in this setup the amount of scum-machination behind it is nil.
And, good players willattemptto act the same as scum or town. Thats a duh.
Le sigh.Alex wrote:I am... it's just that I don't see how do we get to catch scum from the list. Yes, you made a list... so now what? How, specifically is scum. That's my question. Rest assured. I read everything.
The "list" is a stepping stone. Its saying simply: with the development of this game there is an all but guaranteed scum spread between the vomiters and the non-vomiters.
So, how does that list find scum? Dollars to donuts if we lynch (GIEFF, Alex, Benmage) in that order there will be a scum hit.
The trick is trying to hit them first and not waste the mislynches.
YET, as my vote says, that is STILL secondary to lynching Cephrir.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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@GIEFF -
I guess I haven't addressed it directly. Allow me to do so now:
1.) I have not gotten the "I AM SOO TOWN GUYS" feel from camn at all.
--- If this is a crux, how does Mastin measure up?
2.) The rest of it is up to camn to tear apart but its paper-thin.
May I subscribe to your newsletter? I sure could use "Scumhunting Weekly - Tips and Tricks of the trade."GIEFF wrote:That is not scumhunting. That is making a claim without much backing (scum is split between vomiters and non-vomiters), and then advocating lynching based on that alone. That is akin to what Mastin did early in the game, BEFORE we had 25 pages of accusations and votes to analyze. Mastin made a claim without much backing (people in games with has are more likely to be scum), made a list, and then tried to lynch people based on it.
Looking at the ebb and flow of a game that is suffering from a drag effect BECAUSE OF THE VOMIT DIRECTLY WOO IS scumhunting because get this, and follow me here:
Scum have the absolute most to gain from the giant amount of spew.
As for who my suspect is I'm pretty sure a vote should make that really clear. The fact you keep just swishing by this is just confirming my theory that is spelled out more than once that one of you (probably you) is being a vomit-waterfall that Ceph is hiding in.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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What list? There's so many WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS that I'll freely admit I quit reading them all.Spyrex... What about my list... I want to apply a lynch queue too... Rolling Eyes anyway... we will have 2 flips tomorrow... so giving lynching queues won't help us too much. We need to try to find scum today.
And yea its totally a queue that we should go down and just ignore everything else because thats exactly what I was addressing my lord almighty :explode:-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Fair enough. Yet, the focus is predominately on camn. Even with a mastin wagon having more steam.GIEFF wrote:Mastin is guilty of the same thing.
I don't, nor have I pretended, to have "evidence" on anyone yet. I have not given a true case on any of my aforementioned list being scum because, get this, now is not the time. I am voting Ceph for a reason. IF need be I'll give a detailed (hint: more words than Ceph has posted) rationale for it but its right there.GIEFF wrote:My problem is with your claim that the people who are spewing (which is subjective) is scum. You have no evidence that is NOT based on this.
But you have no problem at all using other evidence to REMOVE people from your list. You somehow don't think that either Battle Mage or Mastin are capable of faking concern for the town. Scum do that all the time. Battle Mage's trap was null, and any town-points Mastin may have gained by trying to kick-start the game were lost (and then some) with how often he tried to call attention to that fact. Mastin is the ONLY person who both spews AND lurks, yet you decide to just write him off. I don't buy it.
As for Battle Mage and Mastin: yea, I think they're townat this juncture. Further evidence could change it. I think they are both perfectly capable of faking concern but I do not think they have done soin this particular instance.
I AM going to do a review of Mastin as a function of activity on the site in actual games and if he's actively avoiding this one I'll throw my vote that way.
This is the second time in this post alone you used the word subjectively to explain my thought process. Duh.GIEFF wrote: And you don't include camn or KMD on that list, just because you subjectively claim they don't make your eyes bleed, when they're just as guilty of quote-warring and walling as most (with the exception of alex).
I call BS. If you want to lynch people who you think are purposefully creating spew to confuse the town, that's one thing, although I still think that would be ticky-tack. But you've gone even farther by haphazardly removing people from that list. You aren't even applying your own "formula" objectively.
Are you saying you'veobjectivelyfound scum? If thats the case then I'd sure as hell throw my vote on you right now because as you so eloquently put it I call BS.
I dont include KMD or Camn in that list because I dont find them scummy. If I need to write a thesis showing the difference in the posting to differentiate them I will but god in heaven why should I need to. I dont think they're doing what I was illustrating.
And, to close a nice paraphrase:
"If you want to lynch people who are purposefully doing something that is scummy in nature I think that's ticky-tack. You've went farther by removing people from the list of more people than could possibly BE SCUM in the hopes of finding the actual SCUM and that's even worse."
Pretty sure that sums it up.
@VP:
<3 (although your post was more than a scroll tsk, tsk).-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Hold up. What in the hell is this?DDD wrote:If you've got a specific issue or a specific person that you want my input on, let me know and I'll put together an opinion in relatively short order. Otherwise, I'll continue to post when I feel the need to comment on something and not just to fill up the page.
The above applies to everyone requesting my input. Ask direct questions, get direct answers; otherwise I'll continue as I have been.
You come off a whopping 10 posts to say that you're not going to join in the reindeer games unless you get a magic carpet to do it with?
Well, I've sure got one for you:
Unvote, Vote Debonair Danny DiPietro
Maybe I was harping on the wrong lurker.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Didn't seem that hard to me to follow. You explicitly said you're not going to be proactive. Further, that you weren't going to participate unlessDDD wrote:I really have no idea what SpyreX was going on about at the top of the page, it didn't look like English to me.we forced you to.
Yea.
----
As for Camn:
My only issue is this suicidial bent. The silver rule is: if someone asks to be lynched, you lynch them.
HOWEVER CAMN I THINK YOU ARE TOWN SO QUIT WITH THE /EMO IT IS NOT PRODUCTIVE.
---
After looking at Mastin's profile and the fact he has posted almost as much in other games as he has in this game total AND did not respond to the prod...
Unvote, Vote: Mastin
I am not thrilled about this. However, setting yourself up and then vanishing and letting other schmucks pick up your defense can suck a donkey.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Good lord I almost hope camn is the lynch so tomorrow you get the hang.KMD, I don't want to get dragged back into a camn-quote-war.
But are you really arguing that tying your vote to a player you find scummy and self-voting is PRO-TOWN?
What is the SCUM BENEFIT for any of those actions? Putting yourself in the spotlight in a negative fashion in a mountainous game?
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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1.) Ultimately the way it went down is indefensible. It has to be dealt with.If you arent happy about this, why the hell are you doing it? Cant we discuss proper suspects a bit more, and then lynch the lurker?
BM
--- No way in hell will it ever be dealt with via NK if he IS town.
2.) 30 pages for day 1 is enough. Probably more than enough.
3.) Restarting and regrouping if we are wrong will help.
--- The information gained if we are right is invaluable.
4.) Mastin is a much higher lynch choice for me versus some of the others on the table. I took the tinfoil hat off but its still there staring at me.
So, would I personally rather lynch Cephrir or DDD or even GIEFF today? Yes.
Do I see it happening? Nope.
Am I ready for this day to be over? HELLS YA-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Wow.
How about this ohh so condescending one that is obviously right about everything:
I'll vote camn. Hell, I help get it done.
When she is town you vote yourself and just dont post anymore.
If I'm wrong I'll follow you around like a puppy dog.
SpyreX wrote:As for Battle Mage and Mastin: yea, I think they're town at this juncture.Further evidence could change it.I think they are both perfectly capable of faking concern but I do not think they have done so in this particular instance.SpyreX wrote:After looking at Mastin's profile and the fact he has posted almost as much in other games as he has in this game total AND did not respond to the prod...
Unvote, Vote: Mastin
And, just so we're clear from this last page the new "objective" train is going:
1.) Scum will lie.
2.) Camn has lied.
3.) Camn is scum.
Which would work if #2 WAS GROUNDED IN FACT and NOT SUBJECTIVE INTERPRETATION OF THE POSTS.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Ok, I am over my bout of peevishness with this game.
Did you miss my entire talk with Capt. Condescending regarding Camn and everything else going on? I have to assume you did.jammer wrote:Spyrex-Could you explain that vote in detail?
I'll give him 2 days to explain and then I'll vote. Access issues (which I apparently missed him saying in his games) or not doesn't change the fact it was a slew of posts in other games before the issues and not addressing this one. 2 days is plenty even with a shitty connection to say something relevant in this game.VP Baltar wrote: Attn: GIEFF, benmage, spyrex, and camn---the time has come to do the right thing and vote Mastin. Scum are clearly trying to make this day utterly useless and Mastin's lynch will tell us information about his most ardent defenders. Furthermore, Mastin's scum meta is to lurk when he gets behind. Be pro-town and help this game move forward.
Two weeks? No. Going on 40 pages? Yes.BM wrote:for crying out loud! 2 weeks is not an "overly long day" for a large normal!
BM
Unvote- new post time.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Ok, this has gone to ridiculous speed:
876 wrote:Unvote Mastin
I suspect alex and camn are buddies.I asked them both questions about the other
Alex claims to find camn scummy, claims to want to save Mastin, yet refuses to vote her to do so. Hmm.
I also asked camn if she would prefer a Mastin or alex lynch, and she chose Mastin.882" wrote: I hope everybody agrees that this is a shocking amount of coaching, a shocking amount of defense, and a very lame pretense of finding camn scummy.
Alex had a chance to vote for a player he CLAIMS to find scummy, with a significant number of people behind her lynch, in order to stave off the lynch of another player he CLAIMS to find townie, but instead chooses to vote for Battle Mage, because apparently other people defending camn confuses him.
If I can't convince you guys to lynch camn today, can we please lynch alex instead?892 wrote:Do you agree that alex was coaching camn?
Do you think a townie would coach anybody as much as alex has coached camn, regardless of camn's alignment?
I admit it was my suspicion of camn (and BM's accusation of coaching) that first got me to dig back and look at all this stuff, but it's pretty clear that when camn does something scummy, alex mentions it to either tell her to stop, or just warn her that her behavior is scummy. His quotes speak for themselves. He threw her on a couple scum-lists for appearances, but his refusal to wagon her to save Mastin lends credence to my theory that it's just distancing.
And as camn says, alex's excuse for not voting camn to save Mastin ("people defending her is WIFOM-y!") rings pretty hollow.
So, lets parse this out:896 wrote:Which do you think would incriminate alexmoreat this point - Mastin-town or Mastin-scum?
1.) Alex and Camn are scum together.
2.) Alex is scum regardless of camn's alignment.
3.) Alex is incriminated regardless of Mastin's alignment.
4.) Alex wants to "save" Mastin, but is unwilling to vote Camn.
A few things:
1 & 2 don't really jive. Thats a pretty solid case of having your cake and eating it too. 3 follows this pattern. 4 makes far more sense IF Mastin & Alex are scum together than if Alex is scum and Mastin is town.
So, in essence, 4 is saying that Alex, Mastin and Camn are scum together and Alex is trying to save one partner but not by voting for the other.
Welp, case closed I guess.
Which begs the case if this thought process is true why would you unvote Mastin to vote Alex IF they are scum together? Its mountainous - one scum is just as good as another.
However, if GIEFF is scum and this is a whole pot of fail this makes far more sense.
- If Mastin is scum then GIEFF buys him another day by shifting the wagon.
- If Mastin is town then GIEFF leaves an obvious mislynch for another day.
So, we go around the horn. I'll vote Mastin, but I'd rather see a GIEFF wagon.
Vote: GIEFF-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Wait, its not adding up:GIEFF wrote:I personally think that Alex and Camn are scum together.
However, a lot of people do not want to lynch camn, so I know I can't convince them of #1.
And so, I ask, from their perspective, even if camn WERE town, do they agree that Alex coaching camn is scummy? Trying to prove #2.
I do not think Mastin and alex are scum together. Read my posts more closely, Spyrex. Alex came back soon after Mastin hit L-1 to say "I am against this lynch." But he did not do anything to stop it. It looks to me like somebody wanting to gain town-points from being against someone he KNOWS will flip town.
1.) Alex and Camn are scum together.
2.) You can't get Camn lynched.
3.) Mastin and Alex are NOT scum together.
Deductive conclusions:
a.) Alex is the right lynch (true).
b.) Mastin is town
...
Final conclusion based on your own statements870 wrote:unvote
vote mastin
go sens goobjectively:
You wanted Sensfan to actively hammer someone you think is town.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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If I knew the potential epiphany then I wouldn't have to wait for him to give it would I?
Chances are there isn't one. HOWEVER, regardless of that why the hell wouldn't you give the CHANCE for it?
If he is scum:
- it is another chance for him to spew something out to parse for connections.
If he is town:
- it is another chance to get his feelings on the game on record.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Good god this game.
You're sayin I'm lurking? Reaaly? Sweet.jammer wrote:I vote when the lurkers say something.
As for this whole Alex-Mastin business:
Mastin has opted to even with his "limited access" post 9 times on site in different games on Jul 23rd alone.
So, to hell with two days. This ends now.
Unvote, Vote: Mastin-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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So I get to play catchup in this game like I'm a damn replacement because there is 10-ot pages of spew AGAIN that no one wants to condense into a readable format.
Awesome.
So, lets start this party off:
1.) Benmage is town. No way in hell is that whole mess a scum move.
--- Zachrules (surprise!!) looks REALLY off in 1176 because of this.
--- GIEFF (suprise!!) also looks really bad 1169.
--- Oddly enough Sens reaction sparks a town vibe.
2.) Lynching lurkers that talk to the mod during the night but dont play the game is awesome and I approve. I've even had a lurker I wanted lynched BEFORE and today just makes me rub the belly about it even more.
Vote: Cephrir
If Cephrir is scum, GIEFF dies. Period. Dont, PLEASE GOD, dont make me explain it in more detail than that.
3.) My eyes glazed over smaller details because this game makes me sick to my stomach with all the WORDS WORDS WORDS.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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I swear this game needs to be put under a microscope and studied long into the future to figure out what part of the equation creates sooo soo many damn words all of the time.
However, I want to join in the reindeer games too:
Town:
Benmage
Battle Mage
Slightly-Leaning Town:
KMD
Jammer
Alex
Leaning Scum:
Zach
Here be scum:
GIEFF
DDP
Blackcat
I like to ping-pong between super-town and three sets of handlebar moustaches scum:
SensFan
First things first:
Prod: Blackcat
If we follow the mod given business about him being here but not posting lets let the prod do the work. If the prod is picked up and somehow mystically contribution doesn't happen he dies.
So, onto the crux of things:
1.) Barring some kind of mystical change in the space-time continuum I am NOT ever, ever, ever voting for BM'z of either sort. They are town.
2.) It is not awesome how much of a mental difference there is between the TOWN and the maybe-towns.
3.) I'm not pushing on blackcat, however I am more than willing to see if I can get the scumgroup to start crumbling:
Vote: DDD
Seriously that whole exchange about him not posting then miraculously showing up to post and the awesome "pressure" votes that just vanish when really nothing was posted that is parsable. At this point even though its a struggle not having reads on 4 people is junk.
And AND AND saying one of these two is scum and not placing a vote? Really?
And I'll break this down gangsta-style. If DDD is scum I'll eat a hat if Zach isn't scum with him.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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I think I need some emphasis here before I decide whether or not to be offended:How the hell do you have a town read on Spyrex?
1.) How the hell doyouhave a town read on SpyreX?
2.) How the hell do you have a town read onSpyreX?
Choose your poison. Choose wisely.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Actually, I had my days mixed up because I forgot how rediculously long day 1 was:
Attention KMD, Spyrex, Sens, Baltar, jammer, DDD, and Battle Mage - it takes only a little bit of effort to switch to an alex-wagon. Help me out.
Just because Zach, Benmage, and camn are flipping out (to varying degrees) about an alex lynch doesn't mean it is the wrong play.
You mention me once more between then and today with an ohh so typical "Over-defensive much?" snipe in regards to Jammer.Kmd, Spyrex, jammer, and DDD:
If you agree with an alex lynch, please vote for him now. This will allow players like Sens and Baltar, who are mainly interested in ending the day and moving on, to switch to alex, and we really CAN end the day. If not, then please say you won't, so I know when to stop trying to get an alex lynch through.
So, either I was scum at the point you asked for my vote to switch wagons OR I became scum under (not talked about in thread).
As for me and Cephir I think that's been clear forever.
Now, admittedly, I was wrong about him being scum hiding in your scum shadow.2.) Lynching lurkers that talk to the mod during the night but dont play the game is awesome and I approve. I've even had a lurker I wanted lynched BEFORE and today just makes me rub the belly about it even more.
However, that doesn't change the fact Ceph picked up all of his prods and told the mod he was going to be playing still.
So, would I have been fine with either? Sure.
Was Ceph better? Hoss yes because him being scum meant you were dead to rises the next day.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Lets try this again:Both Ceph AND bcc picked up their prods, and neither posted. So you can't use this as a reason to prefer one to apples an apple is fruit.
2.) Lynching lurkers that talk to the mod during the night but dont play the game is awesome and I approve. I've even had a lurker I wanted lynched BEFORE and today just makes me rub the belly about it even more.
I'm not sure what you're aiming for asking me the same question again. And the analogy you've opted to use doesn't make sense:Now, admittedly, I was wrong about him being scum hiding in your scum shadow.
However, that doesn't change the fact Ceph picked up all of his prods and told the mod he was going to be playing still.
So, would I have been fine with either? Sure.
Was Ceph better? Hoss yes because him being scum meant you were dead to rises the next day.
I prefer apples to oranges because I have been on record saying I hate oranges and if we squish the filthy oranges and there is a worm inside I get to squish the filthy lemons too.
Now I'm going to go eat a banana. TAKE THAT SOCIETY-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Because I've been fine with lynching Ceph since the beginning of the game. Every prod without fail he's picked up. He even talked with the mod at night. And chose not to play.Because you didn't answer it. You failed to differentiate between the two. You didn't even MENTION bcc.
And you still haven't told me WHY you hate oranges.
So, yea, still fine with that not sure what you're aiming for. I was not given the powers to lynch more than one person a day.
Yes I am ignoring bcc lurking today. I am. Wait ohh god my quote button its clickkinngggg.Only because of your earlier guess that I am scum vomit-protecting Cephrir. Which is another example of you assuming Cephrir lurking is scum, but completely ignoring bcc lurking.
And Cephrir flipping town hasn't changed your mind on me at all, has it?
So if the only reason you had to choose Cephrir over bcc was to try to implicate me, then why not just vote me?
Yea looks like I'm ignoring bcc.First things first:
Prod: Blackcat
If we follow the mod given business about him being here but not posting lets let the prod do the work. If the prod is picked up and somehow mystically contribution doesn't happen he dies.
Believe it or not its not about you. Cephir was a-grade scummy and if he was scum you getting lynched is simply icing. Delicious icing, but icing nontheless.
I'm really intrigued by this line of hard knocks though. Are you somehow saying that due to "Cephir lurks as town" the powerful meta making that a bad play in any fashion?
Or am I somehow protecting my super-secret scum partner bcc who I said if they don't produce I would willingly lynch?
I have a third more correct theory but that can wait.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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The hell it isn't relevant?
You're conjecture for bcc over Cephir was based upon Meta in favor of Cephir (which is le bad) and the fact that bcc was replaced.
If BCC getting replaced isn't a function of the game in entirety then the fact Cephir made more sense to me because of "previous day events" sure is.
Ultimately, the question is: what does any of this mean or do or is it posting for posting's sake?
Because if the leadup to all this mess isn't a vote for bcc under some kind of "those people voted for Ceph INSTEAD" then this is all absolute white noise.
More of the same that way back when I said was going to be a scum-move.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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BM - my post asking about the "case" on you was because just this was happening and I'd like to see it laid out because you and Ben are my two super best happy lucky funtime towns.
As for me and GIEFF being scum, swish. I'd vote him in a heartbeat - but I am more confident about my vote now.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Than BM? The fact I think he's town?
Than you? Lurkers be lurkin' yo.
If you are participating there will be enough rope to hang you with if the time comes. If you are town there is NO WAY they can let you live much longer as a vocal point.
However, the plague that be? Yea.-
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Hi Vi!
Hi WORDS I've missed you. Wait, no I haven't. In fact you've been coming around this way far too often. Stop stealing my newspapers.
I'm stoked to the rafters having to ask for a nice clear point by point again on what this now moved to "rewriting history" is.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Again, put on the scum hat:1840 wrote:Spyrex and BM:
You both find me very scummy.
Yet you both think that if I AM town, I will be (or should have already been) night-killed.
But why? If I'm so scummy, doesn't it makes sense for scum to try to leave me alive as a potential mislynch?
And wouldn't scum also try to keep my mislynch viable by, just as an example, saying that I should have been nightkilled if I were town?
If you start to swing at ALL towards "town" you are by nature a very plausible NK.
If there were many "Ohh shi obvtown" players this game yes it would be a different ball of wax but, get this, there aren't. We've had an idiotic amount of lurking (which is always going to be left for mislynches over a "scummy active player").
So, again. Risk/Reward makes DDD a far superior lynch at this juncture. Further, if you are town I'd eat all the hats if you make it to endgame.
Nope. Dont read. Never learned how. It makes mafia hard.Are you even reading the game?
His assertion that there has been no significant discussion on Gieff's scumminess until today is just one blatant example of his repeated attempts to rewrite history.
This repeated attempt to shove the whole "why hasn't Gieff been NKed yet" argument down our throats is convincing me that Gieff is actually town.
It's a much nicer way of saying "Hay, condense this case into a readable format so that it can be discussed that way via 15 different quote wars"
And, yes lets look at some key words:significantdiscussion.
If he's making this all up show me the significant discussion pre-today about GIEFF. It doesn't exist. Of the examples GIEFF gave showing all the "discussion about how he is scummy" only MINE really was "discussion" - and not even strong at that because there has been such an influx of professional lurking this game.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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I assumed my conjecture was under the premise that we, ya know, hit a scum so that we're not looking at fat-lylo and just regular type.
And are we going to argue the difference between "significant discussion" and "coming to the forefront"?
If you are town AND calibrate your posts then its a hindrance to the mafia.
If you are town AND continue to spew then its a help.
If you are scum then you are a help.
Thus:
1.) If scenario one happens then you will be NK'd. You are active and with this being mountainous have to go the way of the dodo.
--- See the fantabulous lurker set: as scum, what would you prefer to have around?
--- This scenario can ONLY occur if we lynch scum. So, until that happens we are stuck in scenarios two and three.
2.) Two and three are pretty much indistinguishable at this point.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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1 shot snipes are not "forefront" discussion. Which is all but necessary for significance to be had in the discussion.
Fat-lylo is 9/4 (whcih I doubt) or the 7/3 which we are approaching. You could be left for a mislycnh at fat lylo. Regular type 3/1 or PROBABLY even 5/2 would not happen.
Considering I think this case on BM is moonbeams no. You are spewing LESS (but still spewing) but calibrated no so much.
I love the last line snipa' though.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Ok, I'll stop playing semantics:
Show me a wagon, a for reallies wagon. You know that whole "I am actually putting you down for lynch because you're scummy".
But, maybe if you're point is "everyone thinks I'm scummy but I'm not getting lynched" then sure, you're right.
Here you go:
Unvote: Vote GIEFF-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Because in this game you are making some kind of connection between "saying you are scummy" and that equating "saving me for a mislynch".
When, get this, this game has been a debacle. It's far, far harder to find someone who ISNT scummy in the eyes of at LEAST half the game than someone who is.
As for poorly, yea, BM isn't the only one. The camn business never made sense. This case on BM is rainbows. If I do an analysis on you I think I'll find snipes at almost everyone.
However, that all aside there are too many people actively lurking for them to all be town. Period. If that is the case we lose.
So, when I say "You are scummy, but you are active versus them" and get this "AHA" business in response well.
You MAY be scum. In fact I'm starting to swing that way hard for the umpteenth time. However, if I am wrong about you, there is much more of a negative impact than one of the lurkers.
Not to mention if you are so "ripe for mislynch" then where is the voting history to show ripeness?
So, I don't get it. At all. But, you are right - sniping but not votes would be a great place for scum to sit on their buddy.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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The logic is real simple:However, I see NO possible town-explanation for Battle Mage's behavior, and I don't see why you are defending him, especially by resorting to semantics.
There are two players I have solid town reads on: Battle Mage and benmage.
You are posting a attack on one of them that I can't even get nailed down to WHAT it is.
Additionally, this argument about semantics is because its really a slippery worm - I'm trying to pin down what you are aiming for and the bar keeps moving around.
It moves from super scummy to "what in the hell" to "ok what" to super scummy again. It does this a lot.Had you ever swung back the other way? I assumed you've thought me scum this whole time.
When I ask "what is the actual case?" and don't really get a solid reply. THEN we move into this business with BM and I being scumpartners with some grand machination to get you lynched.... but not now, later.
So, yea.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Because ultimately the Cephrir scenario was NOT a mislynch. They happened to be town, which sucks, but it was not a bad move at all.
The meta-analysis of Cephrir is a null point because steamboat lurking is going to by nature defy meta (which is bad anyways) and alters NOTHING in most games and doubly so in a mountainous.
Then there is the day 1 "gambit" which really set a tone for me, but apparently different than everyone else. I still hold strong to the trying to catch a scum has allt he earmarks of a perfect town-move in this setup.
I can if necessary get more but yea.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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The walls helped. Ben is partially raw gut. I read it and I see no deeper machinations - he's 100% transparent.
I'll go relook at the whole Ceph / Bcc business.
I still want a nice simply summary. Lawyer style.-
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Ohh wow my irony meter is off the chart right about now.
Unvote, Vote: DDD
How nice to see you. Lets examine this vote.
The hell?SpyreX suggested (or agreed with BM) that GIEFF was widely viewed as pro-town. GIEFF's post in 1859 nicely sums up most of it, but I have a hard time believing anyone would say the guy who spent most of D1 and D2 wall-posting the town into submission was especially pro-town. It's a nice way to dirty someone up because to defend themselves they're forced to go back and drag up all the old arguments and votes against them.
No, seriously.
My argument has been that IF GIEFF is town he will be a NK before we reach true-lylo. This is not because he is SUPER TOWN, but because he has been the most active player in this game.
In comparison, we have team lurker-9000. HOwever, on top of wearing their hat you also seem to show up and say "ohh hey hows it going" right after you're mentioned a few times.
So, you're either Beetlejuice or power-lurking scum ex machina.
P.S. I heart Vi.
P.S.S.
[quote="GIEFF']It's just that if we're going to lynch someone solely for lurking, I think bcc would be the best bet. So it doesn't seem right of you to want to lynch DDD solely (or mainly) for lurking, and expect the rest of us to ignore the lurking of your predecessors.[/quote]
I want to be super clear about this. None of the lynches have -simply- been for lurking.
1.) Mastin came out guns-ho and then fell into the void once things shifted against him.
2.) Cephrir was keeping in communication with the mod enough to not get replaced. And choosing to not do anything.
3.) DDD, aside from now just making up stuff, has been strategically lurking. Further, he TOLD us that he was going to do it and no one seemed to even be confused by this aside from me.
BCC does seem connected to #2, however when prodded this time he got replaced. Vi has came in and laid down enough opinions that placing them as a backburner lynch under the grounds of their predecessor lurking isn't going to be killer sweet.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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This whole diatribe is a function of the great conspiracy theory on BM and SpyreX are together forming a framework where GIEFF gets mislynched later because of the fact he isn't dead.And what, exactly, does this have to do with anything? Anything useful, at any rate.
Going back to DDD's explanation, I'm reading GIEFF 1859 and agreeing with it nicely. To say that GIEFF was thought of as pro-Town throughout the game is quite simply false. For the first 500 posts he consistently had three votes on him; his anti-fan club (Zach, Benmage, Kmd, a side of SpyreX) have been on-and-off voting him throughout. As for being the most active player in the game, I'm really not buying that as a fact or as a worthy reason to push whatever it is you're trying to get across in the above quote.
Which is space awesome.
I've been saying that 1.) we have no obvTown this game and 2.) an active "scummy" player is still going to be far more of a threat than a power lurker which leads to 3.) if GIEFF is town he's a marked man.
Unfortunately that is a giant freaking IF.
I have?Actually, let's hold on changing the subject for a moment.
You've now seen two fairly direct references to "cases" on Battle Mage. I'd like to see your response to them.
I would also like to know your *present* opinion of GIEFF, since in voting DDD you took your vote off of him.
I'm totally missing what GIEFF had to say about BM in a simple format.
You are rightish about alex though. I apparently totally missed it.
To start, I would like the collaborating posts. I'm not ashamed to admit the idea of going back and hunting all this down makes my insides simply die.alex wrote: He voted Mastin.
Unvoted, Voted Me.
Pushed my case a lot. He was "convinced" until people started disbelieving his case.
Then voted GIEFF.
Then, suddenly. Called GIEFF town.
When Mastin was getting lynched. He called Mastin Obv town.
After VP's death. He called VP obv town.
He was CLEARLY against a BCC lynch and pushed a Cephir one.
He was NOT on the Cephir waggon.
Specifically line(s) 3, 6 and 8.
Some of the others really mean very little but its not my place to break it out.
Presently? I still think he is scummy. However, he is not near as scummy as DDD. Especially with this last post.
I find his question of "What has DDD done that is scummy?" odd and doubly-odd that he would suggest that you should find yourself scummy due to your predecessors on that logic.
A younger, more optimistic SpyreX would say something along the lines of "If DDD is scum, GIEFF is a good suspect" but that one died when the lurkers were town.-
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SpyreX POWERFUL WIZARD
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Sorry:
"What has DDD done that is scummy besides contribute lightly?"
Which is in direct response to detailing his absence of contribution.
Versus: "I want you to compile your case on BM"
Now, after you do said thing, if I go "Yea, but what has he done that is scummy besides that?" then there is a comparison.-
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