Mafia 99 - Killers Mafia (game over)

[donkeyz12212]

I'm here! sorry, checking in.

[donkeyz12212]

Sorry for the delay <_<.

I'm voting for the man-ho...

Vote: manho

well...because i dont tolerates hos...

[donkeyz12212]

In regards to Toast's post, I don't think trying to initiate or strike a conversation is scummy at all. A lot of the random votes so far have been completely that...random. So the fact that he initiated the discussion seems pro-town to me.

With scum-hunting, I try to look for slips in posts that are made. Find out who people avoid talking about/talk too much of and trying to connect an individual to others if possible.

[donkeyz12212]

How do you guys feel about super-towns? Scum acting extremely like pro-town players and blending in. Earning the trust of the crowd?

I'm always afraid of those types of scums because they appear to be so helpful but at the same time, you're being deceived.

[donkeyz12212]

By the way, do u think anyone is acting "super town?"

No. It's way too early in the game to honestly tell.

[donkeyz12212]

Well it's only been a couple of days since the game began and it's only been small discussions/random votes. None of it seems super-town play to me.

For me super-town is the idea that you are hitting scum, making strong arguments against an individual and proving right about it. The fact that haven't lynched anyone proves that no one is right yet and no strong cases are out there for the town to listen in on.

I think you can only judge if someone is pro-town is if they lead a strong case against someone and that person ends up being scum and they continually to do that throughout the game. Can it be that the player could be "bussing" their own teammates, of course. Which is why I think it's so dangerous to have a super-town scum hidden.

The reason I brought it up is to bring awareness to possible scum tactics and what people thought about them. I just didn't know how many people were worried about that kind of scum play as much as I am.

[donkeyz12212]

Because it happened in the past in games I have been involved in so it definitely makes me think as to how we can sometimes be blind in who we think is trustworthy.

[donkeyz12212]

well i brought it up because its a topic of conversation. People started initiating conversations so I asked something that was on my mind at the given time.

[donkeyz12212]

Can we get a prod on the three that haven't spoken/voted yet.

Manho, Santos and Robot.

--
I wouldn't call the votes on FarCry a bandwagon just yet. No one truly "stands out" to me as possible scum.

Saberwolf, why do you want to see FarCry squirm. Do you think he'll make a mistake if there is pressure put on him?

[donkeyz12212]

Saberwolf, I feel like you're trying to give yourself so much credit for appearing town and shoving off any suspicion on yourself to the side. The way you post, your mannerisms at least in the latest posts is a bit sporadic and just suspicious to me.

You say you haven't done anything scummy but just the way you present yourself recently shows that you are in a way.

unvote, vote: saberwolf

[donkeyz12212]

After reading the post Farcry about Pimj, I really can see a lot of fluff in his postings altogether. And his last vote for you made him really suspicious.

However, I have to be aware of the fact that some players are very bad townies and may not contribute much as well so I wouldn't consider fully 100% taking individual "meat" in posts as reasons as why one is scum.

[donkeyz12212]

Rewrite of what I meant:

After reading Farcry's post about Pimj, I can now see that Pimj's posts were full of fluff/not full of info. And the last vote he cast against you made him suspicious as well.

[donkeyz12212]

Personally, I think the weakness in saberwolf's scum hunting ability is a factor in me thinking he is scum. Then again, I can say I'm weak at finding scum as well so it's not really a good justification.

It's just that from what I notice, many of saberwolf's post really do not point out any suspicions at all. It's just fairly been asking questions, indicating he is leaving, etc.

Thus my vote is on him at the moment but in all honesty, it's a null tell.

[donkeyz12212]

Thank you for doing that Saber.

Yeah I don't find the list useless at all but to base whether someone is scum on how much they post is a bit illogical. It should based on facts/things they say/slip on, etc.

Saber, if lynch was say in the next day or so, who would you ultimately decide on to lynch.

[donkeyz12212]

Donkey: Does anybody stand out more than the others? Why?

Honestly, no one stands out way too much. Only thing right now is basing things on activity and I fer sure think saberwolf (you) stand out compared to everyone else.

Only reason Far Cry would stand out is because there is a leading bandwagon on him at the moment.

And in regards to someone being super-townie, you can not really judge scum simply base on that. The reason I mentioned the notion at the beginning of the game is my fear of those types of players because I find it hard to pick out scum who are really trying their darnest to help the town.

Far Cry makes a valiant point in indicating out of everyone, saberwolf is trying to be very pro-town but he is asking questions so that helps a lot with finding answers.

unvote

[donkeyz12212]

Welcome to all the replacements!

Devestation

*It is from my perspective that I don't think anyone stands out. Far Cry is the most apparent because I can't really understand the case on him. It's just been saberwolf and FC attacking each other but there hasn't really been evidence yet for me.

[donkeyz12212]

Yes, the fighting between saberwolf and Farcry is practically useless. It's all jumbled up and I'm not even completely sure what their exact fighting is all about.

As for me, I do like Michael's way of questioning about things unassociated within the specific game itself like questions about "lurking."

I feel anyone can give an opinion on that but the biggest draw comes from whether a person who feels one way initially, changes down the road in the long haul.

Like for example if I say "I hate lurkers but don't think they should be exiled because scum can't possibly lurk in a game where they have an important position" then later on in the game I see a lurker and my position changes initially to "I think this person should be exiled because he/she is a lurker" then it's an obvious scumtell.

So saberwolf, although u think Michael's questioning is a bit irrelevant, it does serve a purpose.

Devestation - Well the on-going fighting between Saberwolf and Farcry really just represent innocent town tells fighting against one another. One person is accused and then a whole bunch of OMGUS fighting I feel.

The game has been jumbled up and mixed with new players coming in and out taht its hard to find scum tells.

---

I would actually like to see this actually. Without actually voting, I want everyone to indicate who they would lynch AT THE MOMENT THEY SEE THIS.

WHO DO YOU LYNCH, NOW. REASON and WHY. Do not actually vote. (just state who you would vote at this very moment. I don't want people to bold their vote or actually vote because I want people to express freely without worry they will accidentally hammer or something)



My vote would go to saberwolf. His fighting with Far Cry could possibly be scum vs town but its unlikely. I think if saberwolf turns up town, then Far Cry could very possibly be scum. however if saberwolf turns up scum, then far cry is less likely to be scum. I just don't think scums would draw attention to each other so quickly, especially in first round. Then again its really WIFOM what scum would or would not do.

So state freely who you guys would vote at this very INSTANT.

[donkeyz12212]

You can dislike my opinion as to why you posted those questions as much as you like Michael. It is my perspective as to why those questions were asked. Why would there be any need for me to wait for you at all?

[donkeyz12212]

@Saberwolf and Far_Cry. I would like to hear your opinions on the Random Voting Stage. What is it? Why does it exist? How should people behave during the RVS? When does it end?

@Saberwolf. Please give me your definition of lurking. Do you believe lurking is scummy? Why (not)?

@Saberwolf, responding to #148. You are aware this is a normal game? Thatwould mean no abnormal rules/roles, and therefore no postrestrictions.

Really? Ok then, thanks for the clear up there.

Opinions follow when I've read the entire thread.

This is not helping town in any way MSH, but just to humour you:

My perspective on you asking those questions were to give you more credit, not to discredit you. It was essentially a response to Saberwolf criticizing you as to why you are asking those question. He implies by saying

"this is not helping town in any way MSH, but just to humour you"

that he is just answering the question for the hell of it.

I looked at the questions you asked and to me, they seem irrevelant to the specific game. You don't mention (in the questioning towards saber) about specific incidents. You generalize with questions such as

"Please give me your definition of lurking"

That can be applied to any mafia game but what about it in this game is so important? This is in my opinion, why I see the questions as irrelevant but the fact remains:

this is where I give you credit,

That by having saberwolf answer these questions now, we can check to see if his beliefs are the same later down the road. Look back to my example.

So my post was to discredit saberwolf's notion that the questioning doesn't seem to help because I personally think it does.

So I'm not sure how you find that as a manipulation of town and calling for your mislynch when I am backing you up ?

---

As for the votes now/reasoning

Saberwolf - Donkeyz (vote based on hoping to draw a connection between saber and Farcry), Chaco (for reasons already stated, saber's votes are wishy washy and posts are lackluster),

Far Cry - Boxman (voting him based on "supertown" thing with other reasons.), Jackinthebox (based on supertown thing against far cry as well)

Michaelsableheart - Manho (based on the fact that PIMJ became overdefensive after Farcry accused toast)

So this is what I have for now.

---

Chaco's vote on saberwolf appears to be a BS vote. His vote on Saberwolf makes wolf more likely to be town in my opinion. Chaco just simply uses a common argument as to why someone is scum (wishy washiness and lackluster posts). There has to be more concrete reasons as to why you would want someone out besides their posting. What is it specifically in this game that they did that make u think he is scum? An incident.

Jackinthebox vote on Farcry - You think both saberwolf and Farcry is scum. Yet you opted to vote Farcry over saberwolf. If Farcry turns up town, what do you think saber is? Also, you mention Saberwolf first as being scum in your latest post, why not vote him over farcry?

[donkeyz12212]

V/LA for a couple of days. (Driving from seattle to LA. Yikes!)

Will respond when I have more time.

[donkeyz12212]

truly apologies guys. Been busy moving into L.A. I have to read everything again

[donkeyz12212]

Okay, well, I'm back, slightly. Been overbusy but I read through the posts and a lot of things to consider.

First a response to the question posted by Santos in post #279

- I believe you are referring how I fear "supertown" players and wonder who they are right?

Well the people as of now who I would refer to as "supertown" players are Michael and myself.

The length of Michael's post in post # 238 indicates he is able to analyze thoroughly and provide a detailed argument as to who his suspects are. He isn't afraid to speak his mind and people respect his opinion. People think he is logical in his thinking and can be seen as a "leader" that people can follow. Only one person is on him for a vote, Sudai. If you were to vote for two players, Michael & say Sudai, most people would vote for Sudai, in my opinion, because Michael is a player that people think would help the town moreso than Sudai. That's my perspective of a supertown.

For me, I don't want to give myself credit as supertown because well, that is one of my fears that scum can play extremely well like that. But I have no votes on me, I posted enough content stating my opinions. The general opinion of me from the rest of the players is that I am town. I would not be suspected as scum because of what I have posted and verbally expressed myself. Would people vote for me to get lynched over someone like Far Cry or other suspects at this point? I doubt it but whats to say this will continue on for the rest of the game? This is supertown, being unsuspected, vocal, analyzing and flying under the radar at the same time.

The definition might not other people's definition but it is what define supertown in my eyes.

Santos - You explain there's a connection between myself and Flava Flav. It's based on gut I assume? What other hints/reasonings do you suggest there might be a possible link?


In terms of my vote, the heat on saber has been taken off but I do feel that I want to dissolve any connection between saber and Far Cry. If Far Cry turns up town, in my eyes it makes saber more likely to be scum and if Far Cry turns up scum, saber is more likely town.

However my fear is that both are town so its really hard to base a vote on that judgment.

Boxman is an interesting vote but I don't agree with Michael's statement on "excitement" in the game as a scum-tell. A town player can be just as excited as well in the early starts. I need something more convincing against him.

[donkeyz12212]

Chaco, are you blind?

I just explained in the post above yours.

It was in reference to this question posed by Santos:

Donkeyz, what about your theory now, that was proposed earlier in the game during RVS?

I gave my opinion that Michael and myself fit the criteria of what a dangerous "supertown-mafia" can play like. Does this mean I think Michael is mafia? No. It just means that I think he is really helpful to the town with his analysis and I am convinced by his scum hunting that he is town. But if he is mafia, he is the epitome of what I feared.

I fit that role as well because a fair share of people in the game think I am town. I post and I scumhunt. Thats why I feel supertown mafia members are hard to pick up.

[donkeyz12212]

yeah im confused as to what we both brought up as well lol.

[donkeyz12212]

So the fact that I call for either a saber or Far Cry lynch in my posts signify nothing Pyromaniac? Like I said, I approve of either of their lynches to justify or conclude if there are any connections with the other. The risk involves however that it is town vs town and it won't really mean anything.

[donkeyz12212]

I agree that basing a vote on who is supertown is really practically useless.

I brought up the idea that I FEAR scum who are able to appear as if they are helping town a lot but in turn are actually scum. I label them as supertown.

That does not mean all players who help town are bad. Its just that scum who help out town are hard to predict.

[donkeyz12212]

It seems Far Cry is the most appropriate lynch given how he is probably our most high profiled suspect at the moment. My reason for his lynch is that it provides information in establishing people's connection to me. There are obvious people who has been constantly calling for Far Crys lynch so if he turns up scum, it really gives those people more credibility.

But the reasons as to why Far Cry is scum is not as apparent to me as I would like. There hasn't been a strong enough case against FC to really deem him as total scum but it is Day one and we need information. Lynching Far Cry will provide /shed more light in general.

I prefer a saberwolf lynch over FC but if its between FC or Boxman, I choose FC.

Boxman though is my definition of an active lurker, something that scum usually is. I probably bet he is scum but if he does end up becoming town, then his lynch will doesn't provide much as FC.

vote: Far Cry

[donkeyz12212]

Michael, the only that gets me, is that I use the same reasoning for my vote on FarCry and you see that as me jumping onto that bandwagon but when remember that Saberwolf was the initial person I wanted to see lynch based on trying to find information.

I can lynch Boxman just as well but Boxman hasn't been around or really done much. Im just fearful that his lynch would prove nothing, especially if he is town and then we are left with Far Cry again as a suspect next round. and if Far Cry ends up being town, its like two wasted shots.

[donkeyz12212]

unvote Far Cry

Just to make sure he isn't at an automatic lynch - 1 vote.

[donkeyz12212]

I have to read through everything posted but I just saw that Far Cry was within -1 lynch espeically now that people are switching votes to Devestation all of a sudden.

Michael, why not tell people to jump on Boxman instead of Devestation but him or me specifically?

[donkeyz12212]

it very well could be that if FC is scum, then his scumbuddies is using this to their advantage to take attention off of him.

Devestation in itself is the scapegoat.

However I don't really like his excuses in the past few posts. It seems fishy

[donkeyz12212]

I really don't understand the new Devestation BW honestly.

But i don't think at this point, there' snay way to convince people to switch from Devestation to anyone else.

Now at least we know who targetted Devestation initially and use that as information.

vote: Devestation

[donkeyz12212]

Because I just hammered I believe.

[donkeyz12212]

I just quickened what was inevitable.

People were jumping off Far Cry and now onto Devestation.

Everyone who said I was hunting for information is true to an extent but I also hunt for those who I think are scummy as well. Devestation wasn't as scummy to me and I personally thought saberwolf and FarCry lynch would provide most information but alas people were quickly off the FC wagon.

[donkeyz12212]

Lol that's fantastic.

2 mafia dead. SCORE!

Gonna reread the mafia posts.

[donkeyz12212]

I think the mafia revealations clears Far Cry. Pyromaniac was intent on getting Far Cry out and the fact that there were two scum on that bandwagon, when it was near HAMMER, really makes it seem to me that scum wouldn't do that on the first day.

For me, the mafia deaths clears

Saberwolf
Far Cry

My gut is telling me Santos and Boxman.

Michel was convinced boxman was scum before his death.

[donkeyz12212]

Ummm Far Cry.

It was really saberwolf who pointed it out initially. He says

1. Rising(1) - realityfan
2. Santos (0)
3. Devestation (4) - Santos, Michelsabreheart, Far Cry, Manho
4. Far_Cry (4) - Flava Flave , Boxman, Rising, Pyromaniac,
5. RealityFan (0)
6. Flava Flave(0) -
7. Boxman (0) -
8. Michelsabreheart (0) -
9. Saberwolf (0) -
10. manho (0) -
11. Donkeyz (0) -
12. Pyromaniac (0)
13. Deathnote(0) -
Not voting (4) - Sabrewolf, Deathnote, Donkeyz, Devestation

7 to lynch

do you think this clears Far_Cry, given that 2 scum were on his BW?

also, it's very interesting that we managed to lose 2 goons and 1 VT in just one night...thoughts?

@ goons: pwnage

I simply just contributed to analyzing. I didn't IMMEDIATELY say that the deaths clear you or saberwolf. I was in essence responding to what saberwolf wrote/inferred.

[donkeyz12212]

Devestation is already dead, because of my hammer.

[donkeyz12212]

I'm scum because of my "suspicious" hammer on Devestation last round.

I didn't give Devestation time to "role-claim" when he had all the time leading up to his hammer to do so. I think that's a bad argument against me.

What else does people have? If scum are looking for a scapegoat, they are obviously looking towards my direction.

You can't deny that both scum who were NK'ed both thought I was scum as well. They both analyzed me as someone who is suspicious. I can understand if one person wants to bus me but both scum? Where's the explanation in that? They both weren't expecting to be NK'ed I bet so what were the chances that they both wanted to bus the same "scum partner?" Where is the logic in that if you are scum to have your allies bus the same person?

[donkeyz12212]

My hammer on Devestation was for the day to end. We've been discussing for a whole month now going from Far Cry to Saberwolf. We weren't really getting anywhere and then as Devestation was placing that vote on L-1 on Far Cry, people got really freaked out and was like woah, woah, woah. They immediately switched over to Devestation and felt that a couple of small mistakes he made was warrant enough for him to be the lynch over Far Cry.

Now, I personally didn't see the case on Devestation but people seem to be adamant that he was scum after what he did. The buildup case on Devestation was not as "vast" as the build up on the Far Cry case I feel. I thought that people discussed Far Cry as scum for a long time but with Devestation it happened within one week and BOOM.

I wanted to see if Devestation was indeed scum and that people who immediately jumped to Devestation could be proved as innocent because I don't think scum would switch so quickly, especially if Far Cry is "innocent." They would stay on that bandwagon. But Devestation didn't turn up scum so it didn't help out.

But yeah, I wanted the day to end, simply it. I wanted information.

[donkeyz12212]

Do you guys realize how quickly I got to L-1.

It's quite obvious scum is taking advantage of my hammer and voting me.

You guys need to have other reasons besides a hammer for a lynch. It makes no sense. Why would I HAMMER blantantly. Do you guys really think I am that dumb to do something like that?

[donkeyz12212]

If I were to get lynched,

my suspects are Santos (pretty positive), and i still question manho as well. Him putting me at L-1 confuses me.

I'm still not positive that saber is innocent but that's just me. I'm positive Far Cry is cllear though.